---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Pronunciations: Sometimes I wish... Never mind. (pbabcock)
  fermentation?/Nottingham (Breadnale)
  Scottish Ale or Scotch Ale (Rod Prather)
  Crow Under Glass (Rod Prather)
  Re: Jay's contamination. (Scott Murman)
  One data Point (Bob.Sutton)
  re: Steam Injection Questions (RobertJ)
  Mash duration benefit ("Chuck Mryglot")
  Classic American Pils ("Chuck Mryglot")
  Hold that order on the CROW (Rod Prather)
  Propane Stuff (Bob Wilcox)
  Local vs. Mail Order ("Bridges, Scott")
  Enzymatic conversion limits ("Henckler, Andrew")
  Re: 1st All Grain and Some Questions (Jeff Renner)
  Bell's Homegrown (Jason Henning)
  Re: Sourdough (Jeff Renner)
  Another Starter Question (Dave Hinrichs)
  Slate of AHA Board Candidates (Paul Gatza)
  Brewing in 3 Gallon Batches (Tom Franklin)
  re: maple beer (Jon Macleod)
  Help with Lagers!!! (Troy Hager)
  Wyeast 3347 for a barleywine (jshope)
  Beer as a sport drink ("Victor Farren")
  I'm turning red!!!!!!! (Rod Prather)
  Prior Double Dark (Kevin Peters)
  Opinion Poll - Does St. Pats Care About It's Customers?  I Don't ("George, Marshall E.")
  Yuengling Porter clone ("John Griswold")


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JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:06:17 -0500 (EST)
From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: Pronunciations: Sometimes I wish... Never mind.

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

To all those who would cast the first stone: note the term "attempt" at
the top of the page, and the invitation for corrections that came with
it's announcement in #2890, 12/02/98: 

> Looking for feedback and corrections to fubarred pronunciations in order
> to make the site a useful tool for all... 

The page will happily accept (and has been accepting) corrections, and, as
time allows, those corrections will be made to the page (Keep in mind that
the web page is yet another facet of what is a time consuming hobby. There
is a server upgrade in the works; not to mention a family, career, house -
in short: a life! to maintain as well...) Anyone wishing to contribute to
the effort can do so by anonymously ftping their .wav or .au file to the
Digest (ftp://hbd.org) and/or popping me a note. If you choose the file
method, your voice will be eternally added to the HBD site. If you choose
the note method, you may need to hound me a couple of times before I get
it right :-) I already have a large archive of notes to implement.

Unfortunately, links and attributions aren't in the offing on this
particular page. The page carries the copyright of the HBD; not mine, not
Karl's. If you're not willing to contribute in the volunteer spirit of the
Digest, your assistance, though the thought is appreciated, will not be
accepted.

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."





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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:39:27 EST
From: Breadnale at aol.com
Subject: fermentation?/Nottingham

Hey,
I just racked an ESB and thought I'd throw this out. I've been brewing for
about 7 years. I make mostly ales. My beers always finish quickly (3-6 days) I
always use starters, and aerate like crazy. My question: only sometimes do I
get the thick yeast head on my fermenting beers. To the point where I wonder
how far it has attenuated. 9 times out of 10, my beer is in good shape, no
problems, always tastes the way I want it to. I suppose I could use the Don't
worry... philosophy, but I've only looked at the book once... What's going on
here? Could it be my sanitizer, possibly leaving a film on the sides of the
fermentor? I've thought of that, but I rarely get the white head. Usually, I
just get the brown junk, then, boom it's fermented out. Like I said, my beers
always ferment out real quick. I can't remember the last time I racked later
than 7 days.

Nottingham, yeah I know, again, this last beer I used it. Two packets, per
instructions on pack (this time I didn't do a starter). o.g.1.058 3 days
later. 1.016. The beer barely looked like it fermented, just like above. I use
a stainless open fermentor, so I can't look through the glass. I forgot to
mention above however, that I always, as was the case with this beer, have
TONS of yeast on the bottom of my fermentor. Am I just using incredibly
flocculative yeasts? As I'm told Nottingham is.
Thanks, Jim


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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 23:12:41 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Scottish Ale or Scotch Ale

With the current discussion on guidelines and Scottish Ales I read through
both the BJCP and the AHA guidelines.  Neither call this style a Scotch ale
but a Scottish ale.   Up until now, I thought they were two distinct
styles.   The Scottish ale being litle more than a distictively heavy, often
sweet, English style ale where the Scotch ale contains small amounts of peat
smoked  Scotch Malt.

The AHA defines the former where the BJCP  seems to define the latter.

Scotch is what a Scot uses to wet his whistle.


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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 22:59:44 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Crow Under Glass

Well, I guess I get a large serving of crow.   Drosphilia Melangaster, the
red eyed vinegar fly, the common pest in breweries and wineries,  does 
not appear to carry yeast.  David Logsdon of Wyeast said as of yet they 
had found no evidence of yeasts in these little pests.  He also said 
that since thesample was small and not totally definitive.   No tests 
have been done on fruit flies.   Fruit flies are not the brewery pest 
we are familiar with.

Drosphilia Melangaster is not a fruit fly.  It  lays it's eggs in already
fermenting fruit as a medium for it's larvae, thus it's attraction to beer
and fermenting wines.  The larvae consumes the alcohol, sugars and, I
believe, the yeasts. The adult fly apparently prefers fresh fruit for it's
own nutrition.  Althought it probably does not carry yeast it is still a
source of bacteria and should be minimized in your brewery.

Uh!  What kind of beer do you serve with crow?   10 Fly  Stout?




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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 23:31:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: Re: Jay's contamination.



I can't pinpoint Jay's source of contamination, and doubt anyone
really could except Jay, but I would like to submit that a 5% ABV, pH
4.0 environment is very inhospitable for the majority of microbes
*unless* they happened to set-up shop before those conditions were
prevalent.

 -SM-



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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 07:39:52 -0500
From: Bob.Sutton at fluordaniel.com
Subject: One data Point

Bill,

I'm with you. In fact, I was the first here to recognize the potential of a
fruit fly adjunct. Now we have evidence from the judges. I know it's only one
data point, but it's better than a lot of speculation.

Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterday's Technology Today

Bill Graham <weg at micro-net.net> spoke:
>I can't find anyone selling fruit flies. So does
>anyone know where I can get some? 
>Maybe some scientific supply houses? 
>I really would like to improve my beers. 

Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> says:
>>4.  Fact: A beer with a fruit fly in the starter
>>was submitted to a contest and won 
>>third place.



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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 08:09:24 -0500
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: re: Steam Injection Questions

Jon Sandlin wrote:

I use a CPVC manifold on the bottom of the cooler for lautering and have
had no trouble with it, though I am thinking of using it for the steam
manifold. Does anybody see any trouble with this?  Any help would be
greatly appreciated.
- ----

You may have a problem with the CPVC softening. PVC melts (softens at about
140F). I think CPVC does the same at about 170F.

I suspect you'd be better off if you make your manifold from copper

Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com


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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:26:22 -0500
From: "Chuck Mryglot" <cmryglot at Progress.com>
Subject: Mash duration benefit

What benefit is there to continue a mash after an iodine test shows
conversion?   e.g. Iodine may show conversion at 45 minutes, yet many of us
mash on for up to 90 minutes.  We must be getting something for this.

ChuckM



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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:29:56 -0500
From: "Chuck Mryglot" <cmryglot at Progress.com>
Subject: Classic American Pils

I've brewed the CAP with flaked maize 3 or 4 times and like it a lot.  I've
read somewhere (here or in some of the BT articles) that using corn was an
east coast formulation and using rice was a west coast formulation.   What
has been the experience with using rice?   What form of rice have people
used.  I seem to remember reading here a while back that Jeff 'CAP' Renner
was experimenting with rice.   Jeff?

ChuckM



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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 08:45:52 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Hold that order on the CROW

I just got an e-mail from a man named Darryl Hardie.  Darryl is an
entymologist with the agrigultural department of the State of Washington.
It so happens that he is an expert in Drosophila melanogater.  With his
e-mail he sent me a JPG of a picture on the cover of Phytopathology vol 86
number 9 September 1996.  It shows the leg of a our little pest with several
spores of yeast, specifically Botrytis cinerea, attached.  Botrytis is
produces Noble Rot on grapes, a prized infection in wine grapes that causes
the grape to shrivel and lose fluids while simultaneously increasing sugar.
It also kills trees and other leafy plants.   He ended with the statement,
" I believe that many fruit flies actually feed on the proteins produced by
these yeasts also.  Therefore do not mix fruit flies and brewing. "   I have
the picture should anyone want it.



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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 05:54:34 -0800
From: Bob Wilcox <bobw at sirius.com>
Subject: Propane Stuff

Randy writes

Subject: Propane Part Source?

Well, the RIMS project is going great, nearly done, and with the
1/2" MPT to 1/2" tube connector I picked up on my lunch hour,
I think I have just one design hurdle left:  How to tee off my
propane gas line to two burners.

I have a CampChef burner (35 kBTU) which I use for the boil kettle,
and a new Metal Fusion cast burner which I will use for the sparge
tank.  The Camp Chef has a 3/8" valve, male flare on the inlet side,
female flare on the outlet side.  The MF just has the male flare.

I would like to find a similar valve for the other burner, but I can not

find any type of propane connectors in the hardware stores.  I
assume it has something to do with the California liability laws, but
I don't know.  I would also like to use a couple of short pieces of
propane hose with female flare connectors on the ends, but I
haven't even seen hoses in the stores.

Am I just being dense, or have others had a problem finding
parts for propane?  Any suggestions where to look?
Anybody live in a less progressive State that would be
interested in smuggling?

Thanks all,
Randy in Modesto
___________________________________________________________________

Randy you may want to try going to a propane supplier in your area, you
know the guys with the trucks that deliver propane. They should have all
the stuff you need. I live in the Bay Area and know they have all the
parts. Check the Yellow Pages.

Bob Wilcox
Long Barn Brewing
Long Barn & Alameda Ca.




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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:04:31 -0500 
From: "Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com>
Subject: Local vs. Mail Order


>When you figure in shipping and time delays, mail-order is
>*NOT* an option. Let your local store manager know what you are
>going to be wanting. They listen if they are serious about
>staying in this business.
>
>Bob Sheck / Greenville, NC

We've heard several guys endorce their local suppliers recently.  Now let me
add a different perspective on this subject, which I've also done in the
past.

Here in Columbia, SC there is one shop.  It's very inconvenient to where I
live and work.  The owners are nice folks but who have a very poor selection
of supplies for advanced brewers.  The prices are iffy at best, and their
advice sucks (i.e., use 1 can of extract and add 3 lbs of sugar... you get
the idea).  They don't seem to have any interest in changing, or updating
their 20-yr-old brewing advice.  So, I tend to deal with mail order
suppliers.  I use Alternative Beverage in Charlotte, and Heart's in Orlando.
Both offer full lines of ingredients and supplies, quick service, and
advice.  Yes, you add a few bucks for shipping, but when you deduct the
difference in item cost, it comes out a wash from the local shop.  Bottom
line is that I can have anything I want delivered to my door step in 24-48
hours for no more than I would pay locally.  Oh yes, our club has made bulk
buys of hops and malt from a nearby brewpub. 

Bob's comment above notwithstanding, mail order is a very effective way to
buy supplies.  I can brew whatever I want, whenever I want,  and never have
to deal with the clueless souls who run the local shop.  Sorry, but I don't
feel that I owe them anything, nor will I weep when they close their doors.
And before you criticize that attitude, yes, I understand the importance of
small business.  My ex-wife and I ran a few small art gallery/frame shops,
so I *DO* know what they go through.  

Another data point.....
Scott



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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:13:20 -0500
From: "Henckler, Andrew" <ahenckler at findsvp.com>
Subject: Enzymatic conversion limits

Hi All:

Is there any formalized way to figure out how much starch a given
quantitiy of enzymes is capable of converting?  For example, If a recipe
contains 6 pounds of base malt  at 100 degrees lintner, how much corn
will this malt be safely able to convert?

How many degrees lintner does a malt need in order to convert itself?

Thanks for any wisdom shared.

Andrew


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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:35:27 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: 1st All Grain and Some Questions

Ian_Forbes at AICI.COM (Ian Forbes) attempted to clone Yuengling porter for
his first all-grain and had lots of fun and questions.  I'll answer a few
(especially regarding historical Am. porter) and others can answer more:

>     "Ray Norbert, Yuengling's veteran brewmaster of 50 years,
>continues to produce porter not unlike the recipes of the
>1940s. The company's Pottsville Porter is a 1.048 original
>gravity (12 P) bottom-fermented beer using six-row base
>malt with corn grits and 50L caramel and black malt. 'There is
>a balance between black and caramel malt,' Norbert      said.
>'Otherwise, too much black malt will leave a coarse, burnt
>flavor.' Hops include Cluster and Cascade, with IBUs    ranging
>between 22 and 24."

>Here's the question, does anyone have a good recipe for a
>Yuengling Porter recipe?

You used:

>12 lb Briess two-row
>1 lb Flaked Maize
>12 oz Crystal 80L
>6 oz Black Patent
>3/4 oz Cluster 60min
>3/4 Styrian Goldings 45min
>1/4 Styrian Goldings 15min
>1/4 tsp. Irish Moss 15min
>Wyeast 2035 American Lager

I strongly suspect that Yuengling uses 20% or more corn for this as this
was typical.  I think you've used too much black malt and too little
crystal and too much hops for 22-24 IBU.  A 1948 recipe for 100 bbls of 13P
(1.052) porter from A. L. Nugey (Brewer's Manual Practically Considered)
calls for:

3300 lbs. malt
100 lbs "color" malt (probably black)
1075 lbs. caromel (sic) malt
1170 lbs flakes
6 lbs. licorice (yes!)
60 lbs. domestic hops

Since you are brewing 1/600 of this amount, and your efficiency is going to
be lower (so you might get your target of 1.048), for 5 gallons, this gives:

5.5 lbs. malt
2.7 oz black)
1.8 lbs. crystal malt
2 lbs flaked maize
0.16 oz. licorice (I'd leave it out for Yuengling)
1.6 oz. domestic hops*

*(This will be too bitter for a Yuengling clone.  Your original 3/4 oz.
Cluster (assuming 7% alpha acid) will give about 20 IBU, so leave out the
bittering and finishing St. Goldings of your recipe and use 1/4 oz. Cascade
for 15 min. for 3 more IBU (assuming 5%).

> after the grain had been mashing for 55
>minutes, I noticed that I had failed to add the flaked maize.
>I added it at this point and extended the mash to almost 2
>hours.

>1) What effect should I expect from this extended mash?

Nothing out of the ordinary.

>2) Can I feel comfortable that the maize was converted?

Yes.  I think your enzymes were still intact and it was probably converted
in a few tens of minutes at the most.

>3) While trying to assess the temperature of the mash, I found
>it very difficult to get a consistent reading.

This is normal, and a 4 degree fluctuation is fine.

>More Questions: (note that this is my first time with a lager
>yeast)
>1)  Was this lag time due to pitching directly from the pack,
>or did I shock the yeast with a dramatic and relatively fast
>drop in temperature?  Or both?

Probably just the lack of starter and the temperature.

>2) What negative consequences can I expect from the large lag
>time?

It'll probably be fine and worrying will just mess up the beer's karma.

>3) Now that fermentation is well underway, I notice a very
>unsightly site.  The top of the krausen has a thick, slick,
>tarry substance on top.  It looks like brown tar.  Should I
>rack to secondary before the krausen falls?  If yes, how do I
>know when to transfer to secondary?

If you can skim this crud, I think it's a good idea.  If you are doing a
closed ferment, you can rack with a minimum of splashing when the kraeusen
begins to fall.  Otherwise, don't worry.

>4) When I smell the gas coming out of the airlock, it has a
>very strong sulfur smell.  Will this smell go away?  Has anyone
>else noticed this smell with this yeast?

Normal for many lager yeasts.  It will go away.

The best way to learn about sparging is to watch someone else.  I've run
out of time (sorry) but someone else should be able to point you to online
or books.

Jeff


 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 15:53:27 GMT
From: huskers at voyager.net (Jason Henning)
Subject: Bell's Homegrown

Hello-

Bell's have two beers that I was confusing together, Homegrown and
Harvest. Harvest ale is made with hops grown in the area. It's a swap
thing, grow hops for them and get some of the beer. Nice interaction
with the community. They don't make any attempt to separate varieties or
determine bitterness. The amount of hops determines the batch size. Oh,
and no green hops are added.

Harvest ale is Michigan grown barley. It's grown near Bad Axe (near
Saginaw). They send the barley to Wisconsin to be malted and then bring
it back to be brewed with. The hops are from the PNW.

Hope this straightens things out.

Cheers,
Jason Henning
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Clawson, Michigan

Brew to live
Live to brew

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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:55:26 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Sourdough

>"RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at MID.ORG> wrote:
>
>As a follow-up to Jeff Renner's post last week about the
>rec.food.sourdough newsgroup and FAQs:
>
>It appears that the HBD's own Brian Dixon is the author of the
>sourdough starter FAQ.  You can see it at:
>ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/food/sourdough/starters

This is a set of Q&As.  I haven't had time to read it, but a far more
complete FAQ is is compiled by Darrell Greenwood at:

http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html

There were many contributors to this, including your's truly.  I think
Brian's may be a part of it, too.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 10:58:27 -0500
From: Dave Hinrichs <dhinrichs at quannon.com>
Subject: Another Starter Question

For Christmas I got the pressure cooker that I needed to properly can wort
for starters. This past weekend I made up a batch for the IPA I will be
brewing on Saturday. To make the wort I mixed 1/3 cup DME into 1 pint
canning jars with cold filtered water capped and cooked. Now each pint has
break material in the bottom of the jar. My question is should I decant
leaving the break material behind or pitch it all into my starter?


Just a note about homebrew shops my favorite one here closed this past
summer and a surely miss them. Yes I know there are a couple of decent shops
around but when an excellent one is 2 miles from home, you get the idea.
Once I decide which shop I like best they will get all of my business, an
extra buck or two isn't going to hurt.

Dave
***************************************************************
* Dave Hinrichs                 E-Mail: dhinrichs at quannon.com *
* Quannon CAD Systems, Inc.             Voice: (612) 935-3367 *
* 6101 Baker Road, Suite 204              FAX: (612) 935-0409 *
* Minnetonka, MN 55345                                        *
*                http://www.quannon.com/                      *
***************************************************************



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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 17:25:01 -0700
From: Paul Gatza <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: Slate of AHA Board Candidates

The AHA Board of Advisors is pleased to announce that the following five
people are put forward for a general AHA membership election for the
open AHA Board of Advisors seat: 

     John Carlson 
     Rob Moline 
     Chris Mueller 
     Bob Rescinito 
     Ken Schwartz 

Once available, candidate statements will appear on the
http:/beertown.org website and in the News and Notes that accompanies
the March/April Zymurgy mailing to AHA members. Ballots will be in the
News and Notes. Ballots returned by March 30, 1999 will be tabulated,
and the person with the most votes will be sworn in June 24th at the AHA
Conference in Olathe, Kansas. 
- -- 
Paul Gatza
Director
American Homebrewers Association	(303) 447-0816 x 122
736 Pearl Street			(303) 447-2825 -- FAX
PO Box 1679				paulg at aob.org -- E-MAIL
Boulder, CO 80306-1679			info at aob.org -- AOB INFO
U.S.A.					http://www.beertown.org -- WEB


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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 12:15:16 -0500
From: Tom Franklin <frankli1 at niehs.nih.gov>
Subject: Brewing in 3 Gallon Batches

Hi All,

I've found that I have a fairly reliable source for 3 gallon plastic
food grade containers and I'm interested in using them to brew Dubbels,
Tripels and/or Barleywines.  (It seems a more economic way to go to
start out.)

Forgive the "simple" question, but will simply doing the math to bring a
5 gallon batch down to 3 gallons be enough or are there other
considerations I should think about?

Many Thanks,

tom franklin
frankli1 at niehs.nih.gov



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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:19:16 -0500
From: marli at bbs2.rmrc.net (Jon Macleod)
Subject: re: maple beer

Here's my experience with maple.  As always, everyone's senses are a
little different...

Sap used in place of water - fun to try, mineral content has interesting
effect on sparge, boil, and taste.  No real trace of maple flavor or
smell, though.

Syrup - (alone or in combination with sap) the syrup ferments very
completely no matter when its added.  In any reasonable amounts, I
wasn't able to detect much difference.  Kinda like adding small amounts
(1lb) of honey.  Maybe a slight difference, but you probably won't say
"mmmmm, honey" (or maple).

Sugar - seems like there should be more carmelization than in syrup, so
the effect might be different.  I've never had more that small amounts
to try.

Extract (added at kegging) - this is the only way I've been able to get
any distinctly maple aroma.  This is easy to overdo, so use very small
amounts.  I was very happy with this in combination with sap and syrup.

Have fun,
Mike



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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:38:24 -0800
From: Troy Hager <thager at bsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Help with Lagers!!!

Fellow HBDers,

I have acquired the lagering fridge, bought Noonan's Lager book, have read
the article in BT on Pilsner Urquell and would like to jump into this new
brewing experience! I have some questions naturally, and would like to hear
from those lager people out there about their experiences...

1. In the PU article they say they use 100% Pils malt and do a triple
decoction... the 100% Pils malt is fine but the triple decoction sounds a
little extreme (especially with all the dialogue that has gone on here
about the necessity of multiple decoctions.) I would like to do a single
decoction (maybe a double?). Would anyone be willing to inform me of their
experiences with grain bills and rest temps for a PU style lager?

2. I am a little befuddled about the appropriate yeast strain. Any
suggestions that have worked well for others?

3. I am equally perplexed by the fermentation temps and lengths - of
primary, secondary, and lagering. Yes, I know this is yeast strain
specific, but what has worked for you?

4. Will I need to raise the temp. for a diacytal (sp?) rest? How does one
know whether or not to do this?

5. My fridge fluctuates at its coldest between about 36F and 40F. Will this
be cold enough?

Private emails are great!


Thanks a million!!!!


 -Troy 




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Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 05:58:30 -0700
From: jshope at bioserver.vsb.usu.edu
Subject: Wyeast 3347 for a barleywine

I'm planning to attempt a barley wine.  In the past my yeast have worn out 
before the job is done; so I purchased a pack of Wyeast 3347 (Eau de Vie) 
which is supposed to be good to 21% alcohol.  


Wyeast says that it has a "very clean dry profile, low ester and other volatile 
aromatics" and is a "very good choice for <<snip> <bold>Barley Wine</bold>".


So does anyone have any experience using this yeast for a barley wine (or 
Single Malt...just kidding) ?  What can I expect from the yeast?  Will my beer 
lack the "good esters" if I use this yeast?  



<nofill>
Joe Shope
Apostate Brewing Co.
Next up:  Old Flame Barley Wine


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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 11:08:27 -0500
From: "Victor Farren" <vfarren at smtp.cdie.org>
Subject: Beer as a sport drink

As a homebrewer who also strives to stay physichally fit, I have been 
thinking about including homebrew in my exercise regimen, as a post-workout
 sport drink.  We all know that beer is loaded w/ calories and nutrients 
that the body can quickly absorb.  I have often read in running books that 
long distance runners frequently quaff a low-alcohol beer to rehydrate and 
quickly give their muscles the nutrients they need to recover.

Instead of drinking the swill known as 'lite' beer, I would rather 
enjoy a tasty homebrew.  I want the beer to be low in alcohol, but high in 
nutrients and high in taste.  I figure I could brew a regular strength 
beer (1.040-1.050) and just mash it at a high temp (158) to get a lot of 
unfermentables, and then ferment w/ a low attenuating yeast.  I am 
thinking of something along the lines of a 'bitter' or IPA seeing that 
I like the hoppy, crisp beers.

Anybody have any comments/insights?

Victor J. Farren
Research & Reference Services
PPC/CDIE/DIO/RRS
Tel: (202) 661-5842
Fax: (202) 661-5891
E-mail: vfarren at rrs.cdie.org 


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Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 21:01:07 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: I'm turning red!!!!!!!

 I have a bottle in dryhop right now.  I did both a dry hop and a hop tea.
The tea steeped for maybe 10 minutes in 160 degree water.    It is
fermenting very well and has a SG of 1.017 right now (4 days).   It tastes
great.   The problem is,  I taste tested it the other day, before the dry
hop, and when I came up stairs my wife commented that my face was bright
red.   The redness stopped just above my chest.  It subsided after about an
hour.   I wrote it off.  Just out of curiosity,  and to use my new .100
range hydrometer,   I checked the gravity again tonight and drank the test
tube of wort, about 4 or 5 oz.  Within  15 minutes,  my face turned bright
red again.     WHAT HAVE I DONE?    I'm using Iodophor.   1 tsp per 5 gal.
Drain and dry.   Could I have left some of the liquid in the carboy.  Am I
sensitive to the iodophor.   Am I alergic to the hop tea.   Is it a symptom
of iodine poisoning.   I am quite concerned because I am hypertensive,
controlled with drugs,  and I believe my  BP is going sky high.   Never had
any beer do this before.    My last batch was made with the same LME
extract,  same hops,  (Willamettes and Hallertau)   same yeast (Coopers dry
lager) except for the addition of  1/2 lb of DME in the initial wort,
identical (I used DME for charging the last one).  I didn't have this
problem before.  Drank two cases of it.    Has anyone ever seen or heard of
this before?   I think I will rinse the iodophor from now on, ALAN.



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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:14:23 -0500
From: kpeters at ptd.net (Kevin Peters)
Subject: Prior Double Dark

I am looking for a recipe to clone Prior Double Dark, a beer that
used to be brewed in Philadelphia.  In 1978, the Great American
Beer Book rated this as America's best dark brew.  Unless
someone can give some particulars on the beer (how about it,
all you Philadelphia brewers?), I am considering two options.
The first is to brew a CAP, with little finishing hops and then
add (gasp!!) caramel coloring.  The second option is to use a
more traditional bock grain bill of munich malt, but brewed to
an OG in the low to mid 50s.  I plan to use Wyeast 2272,
reportedly from the Christian Schmidt brewery in Philadelphia.
My intent here is not to brew a bock, but an American dark
lager, hence the untraditional grain bill.  Any comments from the
collective, especially any hints on the original item?  TIA



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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:40:48 -0600 
From: "George, Marshall E." <MGeorge at bridge.com>
Subject: Opinion Poll - Does St. Pats Care About It's Customers?  I Don't 

I must preface this with the fact that I am not a customer of St. Pats,
nor am I affiliated with them in any way.  But, I find this lack of
respect to customers to be terrible, and I will NOT ever be a customer
of theirs.  I feel it's my duty to pass this on.  Has anyone else had
this sort of dealings with St. Pats?  Read the following exchange:

=================================================================
Original email to St. Pats (name removed by request of author):

If you note the date on this email you will see this order was almost
a month ago. I have still not received my shipment nor word of what the
hold up is. I called in and spoke to a gentleman the week before
Christmas
and he said it shipped on Monday. Well that was nearly 2 weeks ago. If
this shipment has not been sent yet please cancel my order and credit my
card.

If it has shipped you are guarunteed this will be my last order placed
with your company. I have ordered from you in the past but never have I
been treated like this. I have heard a growing number of complaints
about
your company and your service. Its too bad because I think you have
decent
prices but that is only half the story, customer service and
satisfaction are important too. There are too many places out there in
competition
with you to be slack with your customers. I am sorry, I wish there was a
resonable explination for the service I have received.
 
=================================================================
This is the response from St. Pats:

As you probably already know your order was delivered to you yesterday. 
The lengthy delay was somewhat due to us (we were out of the blue drum
that you ordered on Monday evening 1/7/98 for $3) as well as four
shipping holidays for UPS.  We have heard from numerous customers who
shipped to their residence before and after the Xmas holiday and they
have all had lengthy delays with UPS.  It is to be expected this time of
year.  Sorry you aren't happy with our service.  

We feel you are unfairly judging us during the XMas season.  

All we can do as a company is to be honest and work as hard as possible
to give the best quality, best selection and best pricing.  No one does
this as well as we do.  If you look at the products that we alone have
sought out in the industry at the same time pushing the industry with
lower pricing across the board you will see that we are responsible for
bringing in Czech Moravian malt (that is currently used by many
microbreweries in the Southwest, many new Wyeast strains, Stainless
Steel Wortchillers (manufactured by us), Unique Brewpot designs, Cheap
Drums like the one you purchased, Less expensive Carboys, Bottles, Pots,
Yeast, Malt and Hops.  I'm not sure where your beef is with us?  
The price we have paid has been high in bringing down the pricing in the
industry as we have been the subject of numerous boycots and threats
that have all failed.    

Perhaps your biggest problem is that you aren't in Austin, Texas to
enjoy our store for yourself.  Every employee as well is a dedicated
homebrewer and lover of beer.  How many mail order shops can say this?  

I am hereby challenging you to find a mail order shop that you feel does
a better job than us on all of the items I have listed.  I'm sorry but I
rather doubt you'll find one.  

Fritz Maytag, of Anchor Brewing Company told me that his beer wasn't for
everyone, I have taken his advise and St. Patrick's isn't for everyone
either.  We treat people with honesty and respect and expect it return. 
This is why we are greatly rewarded each day with wonderful customers
throughout the U.S. as well as 53 countries and have been the largest
homebrew shop in the nation for over 4 years. I'm sorry you can't see a
gem when you see one. 

Good luck to you in your homebrewing, I'm sure we will both be happier
if you did business elsewhere, 

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply
Brew Rat Hyper Link
stpats at wixer.bga.com
512-832-9045

Lynne, I guess maybe we all could do business elsewhere if you want to
treat your customers this way.

Marshall George
Glen Carbon, IL



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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:52:50 -0500
From: "John Griswold" <griswold at ma.ultranet.com>
Subject: Yuengling Porter clone

>Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:45:47 -0500
>From: Ian_Forbes at AICI.COM (Ian Forbes)
>Subject: 1st All Grain and Some Questions


>Here's the question, does anyone have a good recipe for a
>Yuengling Porter recipe?

I found a Yuengling clone recipe in "Clone Brews", Storey Books
(www.storey.com)  by Tess & Mark Szamatulski that is amazingly similar to
the Pennsylvania Porter recipe in the Brewing Techniques article cited:
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/styles/sidebars.html#recip

The article's version uses another 1.25# of malt, but who's to quibble?  And
I think I'd opt out on the licorice.

It would be less than nice for me to republish the book's text.

Oh, and IMHO, Storey is a decent publisher - I've never felt ripped-off when
I bought one of their books.  They have at least two other brewing books,
too :)  Just a satisfied ( and very picky) customer.

Happy Brewing





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