---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  RE:Buying brewing Equipment (Bob Sheck)
  Re: (Rod Prather)
  Bell's Homegrown, Headspace (Al Czajkowski)
  re: Semiauto-clave? / What's that taste? (MaltHound)
  American Science and Surplus (Nathan Kanous)
  Re: yet another bottling question! (Seth Goodman)
  Gueuze pronunciation (Keith Busby)
  Yeast Starters/Nutrients/Open Ferment/Acid Flavor in Beer (Joe Rolfe)
  Pronunciation guide (Jim Liddil)
  Re: Ballentine IPA (Jeff Renner)
  Scales, Fill Levels, 1 gallon batches, All Grain BW efficiency ("Penn, John")
  Open Fermentor... Whoops! ("Eric Schoville")
  Gueze and other pronounciation ("Alan McKay")
  1st All Grain and Some Questions (Ian Forbes)
  Jay's contamination. (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  maple amber ("Czerpak, Pete")
  AHA Style Guidelines (Ted McIrvine)
  Sourdough ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  National Bay Area Brew Off reminder. ("Bryan L. Gros")
  Gueuze pronunciation ("John Griswold")
  Steam injection questions (Jon Sandlin)
  RE: Propane fittings (Robert Arguello)
  One more trick and a possible dumb question (Charley Burns)
  Open Fermentation ("Jim Busch")
  HopDevil - Malt Advocate Domestic Beer of the Year 1999!!! ("Jim Busch")
  Re: Westvletteren 12 Yeast (Jim Wallace)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 02:56:32 -0500
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: RE:Buying brewing Equipment

>A number of posts have asked for places to purchase 
>certain equipment cheaply.<<SNIP>>
>I want them to be there when I need them.
>- --
>John Adsit
>jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us

John has it clear!

This is a very healthy attitude. I have always
supported my local Homebrew stores for this very reason.

Now that I am a more experienced brewer and really
don't need this local help (knowing how to find it 
on the net or HBD Archives) I still patronize my local
store because we have to make sure they stay in business 
for all those other brewers starting out who need them
to be there.

And just as important as having a local homebrew
supplier is having a local hombrew club to further the
nurturing of those new brewers just starting on this journey.
Check out:
http://www.reflector.com/accent/index.html
and be sure and "vote" (hope they don't change this page for a while!)

As much as I love my Schmidling's mill, I still bought it
via my [what was, at the time] local homebrew supply store,
The Flying Barrel in Frederick, MD.
http://www.FlyingBarrel.com/

 - Yes, this is a crass commercial endorsement,
because IMNSHO this is one of the better stores in the
mid-atlantic region - Not that my present store here
in Greenville can't become one of the better suppliers
in the Southeastern region and an equal, and I'm sure it will when
the proprieter knows what we want from him [only because
homebrew supplies are not his main business, but he is very
in-tune to the hand-full of us local brewers and willfully
orders stuff we ask for] - jeez, sorry about rambling.
Stewart does not have  a web page AFAIK, or I would list it.
The next closest store (52 miles South of me in Havelock, NC) 
is also a very good store, run by a homebrewer who is tune with 
homebrewing needs and wants-

http://www.spaceports.com/~homebrew/

I try and split my business between the two, but of course sometimes
nessesity wins out. Anyways, we need to let our local 
suppliers know what we want. If they don't listen to their 
customers, then they will get what they deserve. 

When you figure in shipping and time delays, mail-order is
*NOT* an option. Let your local store manager know what you are
going to be wanting. They listen if they are serious about
staying in this business.

Bob Sheck / Greenville, NC





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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:52:05 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Re: 

310 Gallon batch size?   I still don't understand how you get 310 gallons
out af a  Sanke keg setup.  I didn't see the bumper sticker that said "My
other brewing system is a Salm".

>
> For me, primary fermentation is much easier, because of my
> 310 gallon batch size, and the results are excellent.  I cannot
> say that they are better than closed fermentation, because I
> have not used closed fermentation in a long time.  I encourage
> people to try and use this method.



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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:12:00 -0800
From: Al Czajkowski <aczajkow at ford.com>
Subject: Bell's Homegrown, Headspace 

>Subject: re: Bell's Homegrown Ale
>Hello-
>In HBD2918, Bradley Sevetson asks about Bell's Homegrown Ale:
>+ Is it a hemp beer, as the name implies?  Would it make you test 
>positive 
>+ in a drug test? 
>
>No and no. It's homegrown hops. I believe they add fresh (not dried)
>hops picked from Bell's small Michigan hopyard. Sorta like Grant's
>Spring Ale.

One right and one wrong.. :-)
 There is no hemp in the beer.  I was  a server for Bells at the
Michigan Brewers Fest last summer.  According to Bell, the homegrown is
in reference to the 6-row barley that was grown in Michigan, all other
ingredients were from their normal sources.  The barley was grown in
"the thumb area".  Michigan doesn't normally produce barley that is up
to brewing standards.  As I recall the crop is good enough in one out of
four or five years.
Personnally, I like the brew, clean and crisp without the "lager nose"
that I have come to dislike.


>From: John Herman <johnvic at earthlink.net>
>Subject: yet another bottling question!
>
> Can I have too little headspace, or is 1/2" the right amount?

Yes, too little will result in under-carbonation.  See some of the old
HBD's for an in-depth discussion.  Look for headspace and/or glass
grenades.
- -- 
Al Czajkowski
Fernmental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen


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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:14:17 EST
From: MaltHound at aol.com
Subject: re: Semiauto-clave? / What's that taste?

In 2919 "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> asks:

<<First, I have been in the habit of placing all my bottles in the dishwasher
(by themselves, with no detergent) and running it on heat dry to sanitize
them ...   
 ...Am I wasting my time?  Should I be iodophor-ing them or what?>>

Jay, I use a similar technique with a few minor differences.  I run the
dishwasher through a full wash cycle.  Instead of using dishwasher detergent
(most of which contain surfactants which might effect beer heading) I toss in
a couple of tablespoons of liquid bleach.  I select the "heat water" and "dry"
options on my machine to try and get as high a temp as possible.  I may be all
wet, but my reasoning is that the moisture and diluted bleach wash followed by
the hot rinse and heat during the dry create enough moist heat to kill almost
everything.  Of course, all of this only works on otherwise clean bottles.
Bottles with gunk in the bottom need a (long?) soak in dilute bleach solution
to fully clean out first. 

<<Second, my last 2 batches (an IPA and a blond ale) have had an, er, *off*
flavor to them that I can only describe as *acidic* or *vinegary*
(acetobacter??), I can't tell which...
 ...1.  Priming sugar -- I have always just sprinkled the 3/4 cup directly into
the bottling bucket along with the siphoned beer and mixed thoroughly.
Could the sugar be contaminated??>>

Bingo!  I would guess this is where your problem lies.  You should always boil
(then cool) your priming sugar in a pint or so of water before use.  Sugar is
the stuff of bacteria's dreams.  It's what they live for (and on).  

Some further questions that might help you narrow down your problem:  

Did you taste this batch at any time before bottling?  If it tasted OK until
after bottling then the priming sugar is probably the culprit.  

Does every bottle have the same "off flavor"?  If not then your bottle
cleaning and sanitizing may be the culprit.  If they are all the same it leads
us back to the priming...

OTOH if you tasted any of this "off flavor" before bottling then that would
discount either possibilities as the source.  Hope this helps.

Regards,
Fred Wills
Londonderry NH



 


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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:16:01 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: American Science and Surplus

Pat, 
I think the URL for American Science and Surplus is:
http://www.sciplus.com/

nathan in madison, wi




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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:29:53 -0500
From: Seth Goodman <sethgoodman at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: yet another bottling question!

John Herman, in HBD #2919, wrote:

> Recently I got Phil's Philler.  It works great, but it really fills!  In
> fact it can fill to the rim.  How much is too much?  A couple of bottles
> ended up havin an 1/8 inch headspace, but I quickly learned to get a 1/2
> inch headspace.  Can I have too little headspace, or is 1/2" the right
> amount?
>

I have had a Phil's Philler for about a year and a half, and have also
filled some bottles virtually to the rim.  Several sources, including
the NCJOHB, I believe (can't find my copy right now to quote
specifically), say that beer will not become properly carbonated if
filled so close to
the rim.  However, it has been my empirical experience that such bottles
carbonate just fine. They may not make the usual "Phfffft" sound when
you uncap them, but they are fully carbonated.

On the non-empirical side of things, though, I recall stewarding at a
competition where a judge observed such an "overfilled" bottle, and
commented on it as though he considered it a defect. BJCP scoresheets
have no score for such a "defect" (bottle condition is just an
observation), but I would be reluctant to plant ideas in anyone's mind.
Thus, I try to stick to about 1/2" of headspace.

HTH,

Seth Goodman

P.S. It seems odd to post to the HBD and not be talking about
electricity! Please excuse the on-topic post!  ;-)





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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:34:32 -0600
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu>
Subject: Gueuze pronunciation

As a speaker of Dutch, I can assure Doug that Jackson is closer than the
hbd in his approximation of how to pronounce "gueuze". And as a Brit, I can
tell you that Jackson would not pronounce "r"'s in "cursor". In Dutch, the
initial "g" is a slightly rasping aspirate "h" (more or less as the
Scottish "ch" in "och aye"); in Flemish (Belgian), it can vary between a
softer version (more akin to aspirate "h" followed by "y") to a regular
"g". As for the vowel, it is a true diphthong (say "e" [phonetic schwa]
followed by "u" very quickly). The "z" is halfway between "s" and "z",
followed by a half schwa to extend the consonant. If I could display the
IPA on e-mail (that's International Phonetic Alphabet, not . . .), I would.
Sorry to be pedantic.

KB


Keith Busby
George Lynn Cross Research Professor
Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies
University of Oklahoma
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202
Norman, OK 73019
Tel: (405) 325-5088. Fax: (405) 325-0103


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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:54:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Subject: Yeast Starters/Nutrients/Open Ferment/Acid Flavor in Beer

From: "Mike & Lynn Key" <flakeys at ibm.net>

Had some questions about starters...decant or not...
and yeast nutrients...

For the average sized batches homebrewers typically do
(and not blending/doubling up on them)  you may be better
off to decant - but then only if the starter is totally 
fermented out.  If it is still fairly active (not settled
out and still producing a head) pitch all of it.  If you do
plan on pitching a full healthy active starter take care in 
treating the starter like the beer, avoid heavy aeration and
keep it out of the light, in later doubling stages.  I tend
to prefer decant, and feed the nite before brewing but timing
is real tough.

Yeast hulls - never used them, YEASTEX from Siebels/Crosby&Baker
I swear by it.  In larger fermentations (5-10bbl) the stuff 
easily knocked a full day or two of the fermentation, and repitching
yeast appeared more viable for a longer time after primary completed.  
This stuff has lots of "exotic" chemicals in it. Works real good.   
Yeast are cannibals so I would assume the yeast hulls would serve 
the similar purpose of supplying key nutrients.


From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com>

Open Fermentations and BIG HOMEBREW 

Some yeast require open fermentation to harvest properly.  I dont
enjoy most "real" top fermented beers...so I dont do it.
But the bigger commercial places by A.Pugsley take  
many precautions to prevent "unwanted visitors" and the
beer goes from brewhouse to bottle very quickly - like 8 days.
They filter pretty tight also.  The best bet is to drink it up
quickly (like that would be a bad thing;) or filter. Covering
does cut back the risk quite abit and the bigger guys dont do this.

<snip>
>because of my 310 gallon batch size, and the results are 
>excellent.  
  
I yeild to this guy for biggest homebrew set up...yow...
that must be a cellar full open top sankey kegs...;)


From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us>

Acidic/Vinegar taste in beer sound pretty good for acetobacter......

Repitched yeast - you would have to look at or plate it.
Primings must be pastuerized - the sugar can contain wild yeast or others.
Old Bottling bucket - plastic - you betcha - a plate test same as yeast.
Lactic - that seems to be quite alote of acid for a small volume but your
water may be pretty tough.

Skip the acid unless you have a pH meter, and you probably want to clean or
replace plastic items.  Take care cleaning plastic so as not to scratch it.
Cook the sugar before bottling.

Good Luck and Great Brewing
Joe Rolfe


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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 08:03:50 +0000
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu>
Subject: Pronunciation guide

Go to:

http://belgianstyle.com/mmguide/





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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:04:30 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Ballentine IPA

Bob Eddy <reddy at qualcomm.com> writes about Larry O'Mahoney's and my
previoius posts on cloning Ballantine IPA:

I have always referred to this beer as Ballentine XXX.

I guess I could go to the local beer store and check, but I think that XXX
is Ballantine's "regular" ale, lower gravity and less hoppy than IPA.  To
duplicate it, try making the clone Larry wrote up but simply use
proportionately less ingredients - maybe for 1.048 and 25 IBU?  Or, maybe
it really is the IPA you remember, since you write:

>The beer fairly shouted of hops and was my first
>excursion outside the safer realms of bland, mass-produced, American style
>lagers (although even they were better 30 years ago!).
>
>The one beer I've recently found that comes the close to the unique flavor
>I personally remember, is Hop Ottin' IPA from Anderson Valley Brewing in
>Boonville, CA. ... All I
>could get off their web page was that they use "Generous additions of
>Columbus hops during the boil, plus traditional dry hopping". ...
>I don't know if XXX even used Columbus hops.

Perhaps it's the dryhopping that is similar.  Columbus is a new variety
that wasn't available back when you remember Ballantine's.

My suggestion is that you go ahead and brew according to Larry's recipe.
Be sure to report back.  And for other brewers, don't be afraid of corn!
CAP and old American ales are world class styles when made properly.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:14:07 -0500 
From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Scales, Fill Levels, 1 gallon batches, All Grain BW efficiency

Regarding some Recent questions,
   Scales: I use a $5 scale from Lecter's that goes from 0-16oz but
probably has only 0.2 oz accuracy.  Wal-mart probably has one too, I'll
go look for one that goes to a few pounds.
  Fill Levels/Carbonation:  Make sure you leave some headspace.
Carbonation seems to be a function of yeast variety, alcohol strength
(stronger takes longer), bottle storage temperature (warmer is faster),
how much yeast you managed to siphon into your bottling bucket (don't
get overly anal about avoiding a little yeast siphoned into the bucket),
how long you waited before bottling, ferment temp. of yeast/viability at
time of bottling, fill level, etc.  Recent posters asking how long to
wait before carbonation is complete, should realize its a big DEPENDS ON
question.  Patience and experience with your own system/techniques is
best.
  1 gallon batches: It will take the yeast as long to ferment a 1 gallon
batch as a 3-10 gallon batch.  Don't rush it just because its a smaller
batch.  As for scaling batches to 1 gallon the only thing you really
need to compensate for is hop utilization.  A partial concentrated boil
gets less hop utilization so you need to duplicate the boil fraction of
the original extract recipe or do a full boil if the recipe is a full
boil.  The grain ingredients should scale.
  All Grain BW with 1.080 starting gravity instead of 1.1?? :  Its tough
to make a high gravity beer with all grain.  See the recent no-sparge
efficiency posts in the HBD.  Your calculator probably doesn't account
for efficiency well when your sparge water is so limited and the
starting gravity is so high.  If you are making a 3 gallon batch with 14
# of grain and shooting for such a high starting gravity you may want to
recalculate your expected OG.  Also, I have on occasion had misleading
hydrometer readings which I wish I had taken a second measurement on.
If the reading is off, I tend to take it with a grain of salt (that's an
expression for those outside US  that means to discount the worth of the
one dubious measurement).
  John Penn
  Eldersburg, MD


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Date: 05 Jan 99 07:30:54 -0800
From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Open Fermentor... Whoops!

I wrote in HBD 2919: 
 
> For me, primary fermentation is much easier, because of my 
> 310 gallon batch size 
  ^^^ 
 
Whoops!  Should be 10 gallon! 
 
Eric Schoville 
Flower Mound, TX 
http://home1.gte.net/rschovil/beer/3tier.html 


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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:15:01 -0500
From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com>
Subject: Gueze and other pronounciation


Doug Moyer writes :

> Michael Jackson's _Great Beers of Belgium_ states, "Gueuze is
> pronounced almost like cursor..." The hbd pronunciation guide (
> http://hbd.org/pronunciation ) states, "GOY-za", yet the .wav sounds
> more like, "HOY-za".

No offense to the keeper of the above guide, but I'd just like to point 
out that it improperly pronounces most of the German words in there.  
For a better example of the proper German (and some Czech) pronounciation,
have a look at http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/pronounciation/

I've had a few Efriends in Germany go over it, and they have given it
their stamp of approval.

The HBD folks (Pat?) are free to copy my WAV files, as long as they
give me credit, and create a link to my pronounciation page.

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
Alan McKay	
 <<...>> 
Norstar Desktop Computing and LAN Solutions
PC Support Prime
amckay at nortelnetworks.com	765-6843 (ESN 395)



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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:45:47 -0500
From: Ian_Forbes at AICI.COM (Ian Forbes)
Subject: 1st All Grain and Some Questions

Greetings and happy Brew year,

Let me start by saying that I never imagined that doing an all
grain batch could be so Cool!  It is absolutely amazing to go
from a bag of grain to a big pot of beautiful wort.  It's one
thing to read about it in books and magazines, but something
else entirely to experience it firsthand.  First there is the
fresh grain.  What a wonderful taste and aroma.  Then there is
the cracked grain.  The aroma becomes full and sweet.  Then
come a few scribbled calculations to get the correct temp for
the strike water, followed by the mash.  Drain this into my
pot, add hops, cool, pitch and relax.  What a truly awe
inspiring experience this was for me.  (I know I must sound
like a babbling clich, but it is all true.  I swear!).  I
can't wait to taste the finished product.

Here's the recipe (a porter) for 5 Gallons: (this was mostly
taken from Brewing Techniques at
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/styles/sidebars.html#recip
es)

12 lb Briess two-row
1 lb Flaked Maize
12 oz Crystal 80L
6 oz Black Patent
3/4 oz Cluster 60min
3/4 Styrian Goldings 45min
1/4 Styrian Goldings 15min
1/4 tsp. Irish Moss 15min
Wyeast 2035 American Lager

I used 1.25 qt./lb grain for my mash.  The grain was at 64
degree F and I wanted to mash at 154 degree F.  I believe the
strike temp was 169 degree.  Mash time was supposed to be 60
minutes.

Ok, here's the scoop.  I was attempting the no-sparge technique
that I have gleaned from the archives, so I increased my
original grain bill by 33 percent (which is reflected above).
I mashed all of the grain in a 5 gal. Gott cooler. ( I need to
insert a side note here.  I recently inquired in this very
forum regarding what size cooler to obtain for mashing.  I
received 15
responses and very sound advice - 13 advised a 10 Gal. and 2
recommended the 5 gal  The respondents who advised the 10
gallon said that if I went with the 5 gal I would quickly run
out of space.  To make a long story short, and to get to my
point, when you ask the good people of the HBD for advice,
FOLLOW IT!  I just ordered my 10 gal Gott  :-)  from
www.franks-supply.com, just a happy customer and all that.)
Back to business, after the grain had been mashing for 55
minutes, I noticed that I had failed to add the flaked maize.
I added it at this point and extended the mash to almost 2
hours.

At this point I have three questions.
1) What effect should I expect from this extended mash?
2) Can I feel comfortable that the maize was converted? (no
iodine test performed)
3) While trying to assess the temperature of the mash, I found
it very difficult to get a consistent reading.  I have the
brewers edge dial thermometer with a 8 inch (I believe) probe.
At dough-in the temp appeared to be 154, but If I moved it
around I could bet anything from 152 to 156.  At the end of the
mash I believe that the temp and fallen to about 150 again with
a 4 degree fluctuation  Is there any good procedure of
obtaining the temp of a mash?

I then drained the cooler to my boiling pot.  I got about 1 1/2
to 2 gal of runnings with a SG of about 1.095 or so.  I topped
this off with about 4 gal of water and boiled for 1 hour.  I
cooled with an immersion chiller to about 60 degree and recked
to my carboy.  When I had completed the transfer I noticed that
I only had 4 1/2 gal or so, so I topped this off to 5 gallons.
I forgot to get a SG reading (kicking myself ever since).
Based on my best guesstimate, I believe the SG was around 1.050
(don't ask how I got to this number because it is way to
convoluted).

Next round of questions:
1) Does anyone have a good protocol or advice for no-sparging,
i.e. water/grain ratio, SG calculations, etc.?
2) I tried to add more water to the mash to get some more
runnings (would this be a semi-sparge?), but I guess the grain
had set.  I used an Easymasher and seem to recall reading that
you couldn't set a mash.  Any advice on how to get the runoff
running again?
3) If, on my next batch, I decided to sparge, can someone give
me step by step instructions on how to do it?  I can't seem to
find the entire procedure anywhere.

Next came the pitching of the yeast, and as I mentioned above,
it was Wyeast 2035 American Lager.  Fermentation temp range is
listed as 48 - 58 degree F.  I smacked the pack and let it
swell at room temp (66 degree F) for two days (manufacture date
was Dec 6, 1998 and smack date was Dec 28).  I pitched directly
from the pack at 66 degree F (sorry, no time to do a starter)
into 60 degree wort. I covered the carboy with a towel and
placed it in a big pot of water in front of a fan in my ~58
degree cellar.  The fermentation temp has varied between 50 and
54 degree F.  Fermentation seems to be going great now, but it
took two and a half days to start.

More Questions: (note that this is my first time with a lager
yeast)
1)  Was this lag time due to pitching directly from the pack,
or did I shock the yeast with a dramatic and relatively fast
drop in temperature?  Or both?
2) What negative consequences can I expect from the large lag
time?
3) Now that fermentation is well underway, I notice a very
unsightly site.  The top of the krausen has a thick, slick,
tarry substance on top.  It looks like brown tar.  Should I
rack to secondary before the krausen falls?  If yes, how do I
know when to transfer to secondary?
4) When I smell the gas coming out of the airlock, it has a
very strong sulfur smell.  Will this smell go away?  Has anyone
else noticed this smell with this yeast?

Last Question:

This was supposed to be like a Yuengling Porter.  Now, however
I am not so sure it will be.  A Closer reading of the BT
article on American Porters seems to indicate a different hop
schedule, so we'll see.

     "Ray Norbert, Yuengling's veteran brewmaster of 50 years,
continues to produce porter not unlike the recipes of the
1940s. The company's Pottsville Porter is a 1.048 original
gravity (12 P) bottom-fermented beer using six-row base
malt with corn grits and 50L caramel and black malt. 'There is
a balance between black and caramel malt,' Norbert      said.
'Otherwise, too much black malt will leave a coarse, burnt
flavor.' Hops include Cluster and Cascade, with IBUs    ranging
between 22 and 24."

Here's the question, does anyone have a good recipe for a
Yuengling Porter recipe?


Any critiques or pointers regarding my techniques would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all of you on and at the HBD.

Ian Forbes
Hamden, CT







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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:06:38 -0500 (EST)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Jay's contamination.


Jay posted some sanitation questions:


>First, I have been in the habit of placing all my bottles in the
>dishwasher (by themselves, with no detergent) and running it on heat dry
>to sanitize them. 

I would think this should be sufficient for brewing purposes, assuming
of course that the bottles have been thoroughly cleaned beforehand.
Remember that for brewing all we usually need is SANITATION rather than
sterilization which is much more difficult to achieve, especially in the
home setting. That being said however, there are likely to be key steps at
which even low levels of contamination by bacteria or wild yeasts could be
problematic - the yeast starter comes to mind here, especially if the
contamination happens at an early step in a multi-step expansion of
starter volume. My own procedure for bottles is to thoroughly rinse them
then soak for a couple of weeks in bleach solution followed by a rinse
with hot tap water. I'm assuming the hot water in my hot water heater is
close enough to sterile for brewing purposes and so far I haven't had any
trouble with this method.   


>Second, my last 2 batches (an IPA and a blond ale) have had an, er, *off*
>flavor to them that I can only describe as *acidic* or *vinegary*
>(acetobacter??), I can't tell which.

>1.  Priming sugar -- I have always just sprinkled the 3/4 cup directly
>into the bottling bucket along with the siphoned beer and mixed
>thoroughly.

A possibility. The sugar will certainly not be sterile. I believe most
people pre-dissolve their priming sugar or dried malt in water and boil
to sanitize. This is certainly an easy and prudent thing to do. In
addition, it may allow for more thorough mixing of your priming sugar with
the beer.

>2.  Old bottling bucket -- My bottling bucket is only used for bottling,

Perhaps, but I tend to doubt this, especially as you soak this in iodine
for a day and you don't see visible scratches or gouges. It is however
always going to be a  *formal* possibility that somewhere in the bucket, 
or perhaps more likely the spigot, there is a place where some deposit is 
sequestered from complete contact with your sterilizing solution yet
somehow during bottling comes in contact with your beer. 


>3.  Repitched yeast -- these 2 batches were the 3rd and 4th repitches of
>a good 1056 slurry.  I repitch on all of my batches, and have never
>noticed off flavors of any kind.  The batches were repitched into the
>same carboy as batch 2 of that yeast

This is the one that raises the most red flags on my end. When you first
mentioned your habit of continually repitching the same yeast for an
entire brewing season I cringed but, as you weren't experiencing any
problems, it seemed OK. Can't argue with success after all! Now you are
having problems so I would have to say this may be a very risky procedure.
It may also depend upon what sanitation steps you are taking with your
carboys. You mentioned flaming the mouth of the carboy but were any steps
taken to clean/sanitize the carboy following the first batch? Also, what
about closures - rubber stoppers/airlocks - are these being thoroughly
cleaned and sanitized? 

>4.  Lactic acidified sparge water -- same as always (about 4-5 drops 88%
>lactic per 6 or so gallons of sparge water).

Absolutely NO WAY. Volume added is way too small to have the effect you
seem to be experiencing.

Do you have any more evidence of the proposed contamination, such as
bottle neck rings or unusual cloudiness in the beer? 

 -Alan Meeker, fellow Baltimoron.



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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:31:04 -0500 
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: maple amber

Hello all and happy new brewing year:

I am going to be brewing a maple amber in the coming weeks to appease my
SO.  I checked the archives but opinions vary on when to add the syrup
for maximum maple flavor and aroma.  I have about 1 to 2 qts to work
with for a 3 to 5 gallon batch.  I'm not sure which size I'll be
doing.....

When is it best to make additions of syrup to retain maple flavor and
smell though bottling.  I have also seen that it takes longer to
ferment.

What says yee??

I'm thinking of bottling with 1.25 cups of syrup instead of DME, and
then somehow splitting the remainder between longer boiling and very
short boiling.  Maybe 25% at 30 minutes left and the other 75% at 2-5
minutes left.  Are longer boiling times (probably less flavor and aroma
even desired) from a sugars breakdown concept?

Any suggestions/opinions or words of wisdom?

Also, hops recommendations? - I was thinking Fuggles to boil and
Tett/Hall for finish (maybe 20-25 IBUs)

Thanks and hoppy brewing,
Pete

pete.czerpak at siigroup.com


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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:25:21 -0800
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: AHA Style Guidelines

My original point that triggered this was that many beers that are
respected examples of a style don't fall into the AHA guidelines.  For
example, there are three notches of original gravity which are
prohibited in Belgium yet almost encouraged in the BJCP guidelines.  (I
haven't seen the recent AHA guidelines, but in BJCP guide, DUbbel,
Strong Golden, Saison, and Lambic gravity ranges all fall heavily into
one of the forbidden gravity zones.)  And nobody seems to agree on what
a Scotch ale really looks and tastes like.  I've had many (such as
MacEwen's) that fall in between the 80 shilling export and the strong
scotch ale range.  And I've had some that are golden and some that
aren't malty (such as New Caledonian Golden promise).

I don't know how the AHA/BJCP determined guidelines for Scotish and
Belgian styles.  Even if Billy Bob wasn't consulted, the descriptions
are often in conflict with brewing practices in Scotland and Belgium and
that is the crux of my complaint.

Ted McIrvine
McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com

> 
Alan (Alan McKay <AMCKAY at NortelNetworks.Com> stated
> "There are a lot of problems with the AHA styles, and with the
> judging process in general.  In many cases the people setting
> those guidelines have never tasted a true example of the style of
> beer they are pretending to be experts in.  The only thing they've
> tasted it billy bob's version of uncle chuck's rendition of the
> beer he remembers his grandfather telling him about
> from back in the war."
> 
And David L. Houseman  <David.Houseman at unisys.com> replied in part:

> I can state that for both the AHA and the BJCP that this statement is
> patently FALSE.  While both the current AHA and BJCP style guidelines each
> has its own problems, IMHO, the BJCP Style Guide Committee is in the process
> of re-writing them and negotiating with the AHA for a common set of style
> guidelines for homebrew competitions.


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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:21:56 -0800
From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at MID.ORG>
Subject:  Sourdough

As a follow-up to Jeff Renner's post last week about the
rec.food.sourdough newsgroup and FAQs:

It appears that the HBD's own Brian Dixon is the author of the
sourdough starter FAQ.  You can see it at:
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/food/sourdough/starters


Good job Brian!

Randy


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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 10:07:22 -0800
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: National Bay Area Brew Off reminder.

Next week, Jan. 11, entries will be accepted in the 
13th annual National Bay Area Brew Off. Final 
judging will be Feb 7 at Hooligans Pub in Dublin, 
California.  Send your entries to
Hoptech Homebrew Supplies (www.hoptech.com) in
Pleasanton. (3015 Hopyard Rd, Ste E, Pleasanton CA 94588)
before Jan. 24.

Prizes and ribbons are awarded in each of these 
eight categories:

  Pale American Ales (includes Amer. Pale Ale, Amer. 
       Amber Ale)
  Pale English Ales (Bitter, Special Bitter, ESB, and IPA)
  Dark Lagers (Maibock, trad. bock, doppelbock, vienna, 
       marzen, dunkel, schwartz)
  Porters (brown and robust)
  Stouts (dry, foreign, sweet, oatmeal)
  Barleywine & wheatwine
  Christmas beers
  Mead 

Entries consist of 2 bottles and $6 per entry. Only one entry
per style please. Attach a label to each bottle with your name,
address, phone number, club affiliation, category, style, and
any special ingredients used. For mead, specify still or sparkling
and metheglin, traditional, pyment, cyser, or melomel as necessary.

Details at http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm

All are welcome to celebrate at Hooligans California AleHouse 
and Grill and to pick up your scoresheets (7294 San Ramon Rd., 
Dublin CA)

Judge or steward volunteers please contact Bryan Gros
(gros at bigfoot.com) via email or at 510-601-6780. 

Bryan Gros    mailto:gros at bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA

Organizer, 1999 National Bay Area Brew Off
http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm



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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:20:43 -0500
From: "John Griswold" <griswold at ma.ultranet.com>
Subject: Gueuze pronunciation


Doug Moyer was asking for pronunciation tips - I stumbled upon this =
little gem (even if I'm late, I feel like I'm contributing ;)
http://belgianstyle.com/mmguide/pronounce/speak.html

John Griswold
griswold at ma.ultranet.com
http://www.ultranet.com/~griswold





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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:12:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Sandlin <sandlinj at ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: Steam injection questions

I planning to use steam injection in my mashtun.  I use a rectangular
cooler and I am curious if I have the steam manifold laying on the bottom
of the tun if it will melt the plastic?  Also, I use a CPVC manifold on
the bottom of the cooler for lautering and have had no trouble with it,
though I am thinking of using it for the steam manifold. Does anybody see
any trouble with this?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Private
email if fine.

Jon Sandlin
Corvallis, OR



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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:59:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Subject: RE: Propane fittings

My good friend Randy in Modesto asked about a source of propane fittings:

>Well, the RIMS project is going great, nearly done, and with the
>1/2" MPT to 1/2" tube connector I picked up on my lunch hour,
>I think I have just one design hurdle left:  How to tee off my
>propane gas line to two burners.

Randy! How are ya?  Just north of you, (in Sacramento), there is a company
called...
Empire Gas. They had the fitting you ask about a few years ago when I built
my RIMS.
It's basically a "Y" that screws into your propane tank. Other propane
retailers should be able to help as well...AmeriGas and Suburban to name
just a couple. You being in Modesto, (The RV capital of the freekin' world),
might also have success at one of the myriad RV product companies in your area.

Talk to you soon.

Robert A.



********************************************************************     	
Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com>
Corny kegs - Mahogany 6-pack carriers - ProMash Brewing Software
http://www.calweb.com/~robertac
********************************************************************



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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 99 13:22 PST
From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: One more trick and a possible dumb question

Brewed up an Oatmeal stout while watching a rollercoaster of a game between 
49'ers and peckers, er pAckers. The day before I had harvested a full quart 
of wyeast 1968 slurry from a storage keg at Jack Russel brewery, compliments 
of Terry Bonham (thanks Terry). Overnight it had settled to a thick mass 
that was only about 1 pint. Apparently a lot of gas of some kind in the 
yeast, as there was very little liquid on top of the yeast cake.

When it came time to pitch the yeast I couldn't get it to come out of the 
jar and through a funnel (too thick) and ended up running some chilled wort 
into the jar to thin it out. My goal was to save at least half the yeast for 
another batch later on. Ended up pitching all of it into a single 5 gallon 
batch, from my very rough calculations, about 4 times more yeast than an 
adequate pitching rate. 

The wort was about 65F at pitching, the lower end of 1968's range. I had a 
couple bubbles out the airlock by nightfall. In the morning, my basement 
temp had fallen to about 58F and the fermenter was totally quiet. I guessed 
that it was just too cold for 1968. I grabbed my trusty hot pad and wrapped 
it around the carboy along with a blanket and turned it on. The stupid 
brewer trick part is that I set it on HIGH instead of LOW heat. I came home 
last night to a wonderful smell in the basement, but a steady steam of 
bubbles mixed with foam ooozing out of the fermenter. Holy cow was that 
thing HOT It must have been 90+ degrees (how's that for a forced 
fermentation test?).

I quickly pulled the airlock off and replaced it with some loose fitting 
aluminum foil (pulled the plug on the hot pad too). This morning it was 
still about 75F and I put the airlock back in (head had dropped). Still 
getting a steady stream of bubbles, left it wrapped in the blanket without 
hot pad this time. This stout could be a very weird tasting one. Testing the 
higher alcohol production at high fermentation temps by mistake.

Now for the potentially stupid question. I have noticed a few recipes that 
call for mashing at high temps (158F-160F) that also include some cara-pils 
malt. Is this redundant? Are we wasting our malt budget on higher priced 
cara-pils and then turning around and making more dextrins using the high 
mash temps?

Charley (feeling stupid once again, and now questioning myself) in N. Cal



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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:31:09 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: Open Fermentation

This is one of those old topics that seems to reappear every 3 years 
or so on the digest.  Open fermenters are great in general and 
essential in some styles such as a Belgian Saison I plan on brewing 
tomorrow.  While I have a unitank now and do love it, some of my best 
beers were always made in an open fermenter and like I say I couldnt 
expect this fine Belgian yeast to preform properly in a unitank as I 
doubt it would finish fermenting to terminal gravity.

Anyway, I wrote an article on the subject many years ago and its on 
the web unde the yeast culture kit co site. (BTW, the key to all good 
beer is pitching enough good viable yeast cells into properly handled 
wort.  If you do that then open fermentation will work fine for you).

Here is the URL:

http://oeonline.oeonline.com/~pbabcock/yckco/article1.html

Prost!

Jim Busch


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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:37:46 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: HopDevil - Malt Advocate Domestic Beer of the Year 1999!!!

We're all very proud of the accolaids that our beloved HopDevil has 
received of late and in particular the great praise from Lew Bryson 
and John Hansell of The Malt Advocate.  Thanks to all of the Victory 
fans and what a great way to start the New Year!  

Prost!

Jim Busch

PS: Salvator was import beer of year and Sierra brewer of the year.

Subject: Malt Advocate Beers of the Year 1999
From: BeerFly 

Now that it's official, my congratulations to the following brewers for
being selected as (respectively) Malt Advocate's Import Beer, Domestic
Beer, and Brewer of the Year. Well done, and richly deserved. Please
keep in mind that Malt Advocate picks only one award winner in these
classes each year.

Domestic Beer of the Year
Victory HopDevil IPA

We could be accused of local prejudice here. Victory Brewing is only 43
road miles from our offices. But while Victory keeps distribution close
to home, the shining beacon of HopDevil has refused to stay hidden. The
hopfire and maltstone of the `Devil has won it a national cult following
fed by rave Internet reviews and clandestine UPS shipments. We couldn't
ignore it any longer.

What separates HopDevil from other whoppingly hopped ales? In a word,
framework. Too many hop-it rockets don't have a base for their
bitterness. HopDevil is as solidly malty as it is slashingly hopped. Add
to that the impeccable cleanness of the finish and the unmistakable
craft of brewers Ron Barchet and Bill Covaleski and you've got a Beer of
the Year.

Tasting Notes: A first sip brings a growl of appreciation, but the first
serious mouthful opens the eyes in wonderful comprehension. So don't
sip, take a big bite, and you'll find that the billowing bountiful hop
nose is no lie; this beer follows through on every promise. The mouth
fills with hop flavor borne on a bed of good German malt. As the beer
passes into the gullet a bitterness pleasantly tempered and smoothed
fills the mouth. This is a beer that "goes to eleven." Turn it up, rock
your world.

Victory HopDevil is brewed by Victory Brewing Co., 420 Acorn Lane,
Downingtown, PA (610/873-0881), www.victorybeer.com .



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Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:18:58 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Re: Westvletteren 12 Yeast

Peter, One of the worlds truly great beers if you havn't tried it yet
I still have close to a case left (along with the wooden crate made by the
monks)

The yeast in the bottle is the real thing.. 
I have tried to culture the 12 on several occasions but with limited luck 
I just plated out a seeming ferment of it yesterday and waiting to see

If it's trippel you want then the yeast from the Westmalle Tripple is a
much easier yeast to get
they sell it at many good stores here in the states and I find it very easy
to culture well
the character of the westmalle tripple and Westvlet 12 are VERY different. 
 
These 2 beers are very different WM is a large brewing op with extensive
distribution whereas WV is very small and NO commercial distribution.. if
you want to get it you must go to the source and pick it up from the
monks(usually a queue early am). sometimes you may be luck enough to get it
at stores such as 'Hop Duvel' in Ghent. I don't even remember it being
available at Kulminator in Antwerp.

>From: "Peter Zien" <PZ.JDZINC at worldnet.att.net>
>I recently acquired a prized bottle of Westvletteren 12 Abt  beer.  It was
>picked up at the Trappist Abbaye 30 days ago and was shipped immediately.
>It appears to be in great shape, with a nice dusting of yeast on the bottom.
>I would like to culture it and pitch into a 1.080 OG Trippel if it is the
>same yeast used for primary fermentation.  However, I am having trouble
>locating a source that discusses this particular strain.  Michael Jackson
>appears to have first hand knowledge about the neighboring Westmalle Trippel
>yeast, claiming that although the primary yeast is filtered out, the same
>yeast is reintroduced at bottling.  Does anyone know if this is true with
>the Westvletteren yeast?  Has Wyeast already incorporated this yeast into
>their line-up, saving me the trouble?   Thanks for your help!

___________________________________________
    JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com
      http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace  
___________________________________________


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