---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  RE: Posting Questionable Data ("Alan McKay")
  Suitability of Wyeast 1728 "Scottish Ale" for high gravity worts ("Dave Humes")
  Polenta/ attenuation (Dave Sapsis)
  Need a URL again, please! ("Kelly")
  Plastic bucket for boil vessel (steve)
  A newbie question please... ("Kelly")
  RE: Subject: yeast starters ("Kelly")
  Suppliers (John Wilkinson)
  Questionable posts, Dry Yeast, Boilovers (Joe Rolfe)
  The Brewhouse, Whistler, BC (Charley Burns)
  Kegging without CO2 (tbevans)
  Whisk(e)y ("Brad McMahon")
  Yeast Purity ("Rick Wood")
  RE: Wyeast 1968, easy starter oxygenation ("Rich, Charles")
  Brew Stands ("Mark Nelson")
  Reply to Tom's question about Aluminum foil (CptOzzy)
  Mash Temp Calculations (John Varady)
  old-style keg conversion (Jim Suggs)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Stainless steel screen ("rrscott")
  Re: Coffee Stout (Brendan Persinger)
  Drunk Monk Challenge (Steve McKenna)
  More on Cutting out Keg Tops ("Donald D. Lake")
  Blue Corn Beer (Ken Schwartz)
  yeast (Jason.Gorman)
  Solenoid Valves (The Holders)
  Re: Whiskey yeast (Wade Hutchison)
  Solenoids, Polenta, SS Screen ("John Griswold")
  More Fun with Air Tools! (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  More on dry yeast purity ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Maybe "D", none of the above ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Foamy aeration ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Lager bottling question (Kris and Marie Cowling)
  sweetness source (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Re: whisky yeast ("Stephen Alexander")
  CAP question ("Bryan L. Gros")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:15:58 -0500
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: RE: Posting Questionable Data

Jeffrey Kenton writes :

> If you disagree with what I have to say, please address me 
> directly at the email address above. There's no need to discuss 
> replies on the HBD.

So you're allowed to vent to the HBD, but everyone else should just
keep their traps shut now that you've had your say?

> I have read the HBD for several years, and have posted occasionally. I have
> used the HBD as an excellent source of information, and have improved, in
> my opinion, my brewing skills. However, one thing really gets under my
> skin, which is posting conjecture. Posts that contain the phrase, "I don't
> have the resource to hand, but...." or "I can't recall exactly how process
> xxxx works, but here's what I remember...." or "I remember from Organic
> Chemistry fifteen years ago that..." really make for a great number of
> worthless posts. These types of posts only make it possible for twenty
> people to reply that the intial post was off the mark, often all coming in
> the very next issue, or delaying the queue for several days.

While I do agree with you in spirit, I think the onus is on the reader,
not the poster.  I give a lot of advice (mainly in rec.crafts.brewing)
that otherwise would not be given if I had to go look it up every time.
When I'm uncertain of something, I say so.  I tell people when to take
it with a grain of salt, and they should do just that.  As I mention
on my homepage at :

http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/disclaimer.html

 "Our reluctance to buy into electonic advice stems simply from our 
  15+ years experience on the internet, which has earned us the knowledge 
  of how easy it is to make yourself look like an expert in such a
  forum. Take that statement self-referencially to your current hosts if 
  you please. You should be cautious of all information you obtain from 
  the Internet (whether it be about brewing, or some other topic altogether), 
  unless you can be absolutely certain that the person or people you are 
  getting it from can be trusted."

IMO if you aren't operating as stated above, and if you don't already work
on these assumptions, then you should reconsider whether or not you are
ready for the Internet.

> 2. Consult as many references as possible before posting a new topic.
> 3. Please make sure to include the reference when posting something
>    out-of-the-norm.
 
This is just being utterly ridiculous.  Citations and so on, while they 
would be useful in some circumstances, is just being too anal IMO.  This
isn't a scientific journal (though at times you wouldn't know it), and
quite frankly I don't think it should become one.

cheers,
 -Alan


- --
Alan McKay		Nortel Networks
Norstar WinNT		613-765-6843 (ESN 395)
amckay at nortelnetworks.com


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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:31:17 -0500
From: "Dave Humes" <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Suitability of Wyeast 1728 "Scottish Ale" for high gravity worts

Greetings,

I recently exchanged email with someone on another forum who stated
that he was using Wyeast 1728 "Scottish Ale" to ferment a barley
wine, OG 1.098.  I wondered about the suitability of a highly
flocculent yeast like 1728 for a high gravity beer.  But, the Wyeast
Labs description of 1728 states that it is suitable for high gravity
ales of all types.  It just seems to me that you would want a yeast
that remains in suspension as long as possible for a high gravity
beer, and that you would want to choose a yeast that is capable of
fairly high attenuation.  1728 is neither.  I suppose it may have
good alcohol tolerance, but otherwise what makes it a good yeast for
barley wine?


Dave Humes                             >>humesdg1 at earthlink.net<<




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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:32:27 -0800
From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov>
Subject: Polenta/ attenuation

Just like Jim with a post on Lambics of the AHA pops up, I autoreflex
reply to *my* favorite adjunct:  Markus asks about using Polenta instead
of corn meal.  The only difference between raw (ie not already partially
cooked) Polenta and Cornmeal is the texture.  I have found that the
coarser Polenta works even better in the mash tun, and conveys an
absolutely bomb corn character -- to my palate much better than brewers
maize (ie, gelatinized flakes). Wondering about this perception, I
boiled a small amount of each in some water, and the aroma of the flakes
had a faint staleness while the polenta was bright, sweet,  and very
corny.  Of course this could be due to poor flakes.  However, a good
coop probably has reasonably fresh bulk goods.  On a similar vein, I
recently used bulgar (cracked wheat) in subsitute of my normal flaked
wheat in a plambic.  Worked  lovely.

Regarding Mark's question of attentuation and sach temps:  I routinely
mash my ordinary bitters (nominally 85% UK pale malt, 10 % glucose, 5%
crystal) around 144F.  Underattentuation strikes me as a more common
malady, and while this temp converts fine, there is no loss of malty
character, as long as high quality malts are used.  The grainbill no
doubt interacts significantly with mash regime and feremet in the level
of attenution.  Particulalry the use of high levels of crystal malts
will lead to lower atteaution, and a generally sweeter finish.  Search
for  Mort O'Sullivan's excellent post on caramel malt characteristics
for why.  A classic example is provided by Fuller's, which according to
the brewery mash all their bitters at 65C (149F); I found the Cheshwick
Bitter to be bone dry, while the ESB was cloyingly sweet.  This was real
ale, mind you, not the pasturized stuff stateside.  Incidentally,
Fuller's uses the Fuller's yeast (Nudge Nudge, wink wink, say no
more...)

cheers,
- --dave			


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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:36:02 -0600
From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: Need a URL again, please!

Hello,
Could someone please re-post the URL for the site that had all of the
different set ups for all-grain brewing?  I thought I had bookmarked it,
but, apparently Netscape <hiccuped> and didn't record it.  It had several
setups with pictures of each...

TIA,

Kelly
New Orleans



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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:37:11 -0600 (CST)
From: steve at globaldialog.com
Subject: Plastic bucket for boil vessel

I recall seeing a page on the net in the past describing someones system they
made using a 220volt heating element installed in a plastic bucket for
mashing and boiling.  I cannot find it again now to save my life.  Does anyone
on the list know of the site I speak, or one like it?  Any comments on such a
system?


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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:53:10 -0600
From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: A newbie question please...

Could someone tell me what Fusel alcohols are...why they are bad, what the
taste is like (so I can know how to detect), and how to prevent them?

Thanx!!

Kelly





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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:14:11 -0600
From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: RE: Subject: yeast starters

Hi George,
I'm a newbie brewer, and new to the list, but, I think I know the answer to
this one.  You want your brewing yeasts to get as fast of a start on
re-producing and fermenting as possible so as to prevent possible
contaminating yeasts and bacteria from thriving.  Remember, in any medium
where microbes can thrive, it is a competition between them....and if you
give your yeast cells an advantage of numbers and they are particularly
viable, then they will win the 'war' to grow and thrive in the wort.  They
will beat out the 'nasties' and will therefore be the primary
fermenters/flavorers of your beer.

Hope I got this one right, and I'm really enjoying the list so far.....!!

Kelly

New Orleans

Original Message-----------------------------------------------
>Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:18:49 EST
>From: FLHNEM at aol.com
>Subject: yeast starters
<snip>
>     My second question asked what the harm in fermentation delay is?

>Frank Hight
>Worcester, Ma.




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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:54:43 -0600
From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Suppliers

There has been discussion of late about local homebrew supply stores and I
thought I would relate a recent experience.
Over a year ago I bought a can of grape juice concentrate from my local
supplier, Home Brew Supply of Dallas, and made a white wine.  When I opened
the can the concentrate was dark and apparently oxidized.  I already had
everything ready so I went ahead and made the wine.  The stuff turned out
undrinkable.  It was quite a while after I bought it that I found it was
no good so I thought it too late to mention to my supplier.  Well, I was
just in his store to buy a few odds and ends and we got to talking about
wine and I mentioned my experience.  Without hesitation Jack told me to go
get another can.  Now I call that good service.  You can bet he is going to
get my business.  I kind of doubt I would have gotten such instant and sure
response from a mail order place that doesn't even know me.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com


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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:18:36 -0500
From: Joe Rolfe <rolfe at sky.sky.com>
Subject: Questionable posts, Dry Yeast, Boilovers

Jeff Kenton mentioned questionable posts....

I am guilty as charged there but am I the only one to admit this??

I responed to Jeff offline (x2), but maybe what this list needs
is a "resume" from posters so that everyone can determine the 
experience levels. Computers hide alot of details, and anyone 
can be a brewmaster behind the keyboard. I try to be brief,
give the bullets and most people can figure out how to implement
the details in the environment they have. No two breweries are 
the same. 
If anyone feels that info is questionable, indicate asap, dont wait.

Dry Yeasts - there are places here and in Europe that provide
excellent quality dry yeast to commercial brewers and if a 
homebrewer want to fork over $200 to $400 for it. 
(questionable data alert - i dont have the address here
of the one I am thinking about in Denmark - but if anyone is
interested I can get the address and the person I was in contact 
for you)...

You pay for one vial and it should last a life time. It comes 
with a purity certificate. So this Lallemand set up should be 
interesting.

For those that want early access - talk to your local commercial
brewer and see if they can purchase it for you if they dont 
become readily available to homebrew shops.

For boil over prevention (possibly questionable data here)...try
adding some hops before the boil and after "skimming the scum" 
that forms. Dont cover the kettle entirely. It works - most of 
the time for me. But I still kept the hose close by, just in case.


Good Luck and Great Brewing
Joe Rolfe


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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 16:00 PST
From: caburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: The Brewhouse, Whistler, BC

Just back from a ski trip to Whistler and to my great joy found a wonderful 
little brewpub, The Brewhouse, right in the middle of Whistler Village. The 
beer was passable, the food was outstanding. The giant wood fired rotisserie 
held at least 18 chickens and a few prime ribs. The best beer was the 
Bitter, a fine example of the style. The nut brown was full of diacetyl, the 
"lite lager" was insipid and oxidized. The stout was clean but a bit light 
in body although very drinkable. Pale ale was a tamer version of the Bitter, 
but clean and drinkable as a session beer. The Lifty Lager which in my 
opinion was a pilsner, but not billed that way, was very good and according 
to server is their best seller. If you're going sking, get to Whistler and 
try that rotisserie chicken and prime rib - fantastic.

Charley



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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:45:45 -0800
From: tbevans at internet.omm.com
Subject: Kegging without CO2

Does anyone have experience with kegging beer and then dispensing it with a hand
pump (like they do in certain English pubs), as opposed to using CO2 to
dispense.   I have not even progressing to kegging my beer yet but would like
any information available about this process and whether it is feasible for us
homebrewers.  

Thanks much,

Tim Evans
Los Angeles



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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:34:47 +0930
From: "Brad McMahon" <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Whisk(e)y

>From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
>Subject: whiskey or whisky
>While the topic of whiskey is in the air, does anyone know why there
>are two spellings - whisky and whiskey?  
> -SM- single-malt snob

I don;t actually know _why_ there is a difference in spelling, just 
that Scots spell it without the 'e', and Irish have theirs with an 
'e'.
So unless you are referring to Irish whiskey, you should spell it 
'whisky'.


Brad McMahon
brad at sa.apana.org.au


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:18:43 +1100
From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com>
Subject: Yeast Purity

Hello HBD,

I would like to make a few comments regarding yeast purity info that has
been given in the HBD recently.

First CFU / mL does mean Colony Forming Unit per 1 milliliter.  A CFU is a
single organism or a conglomeration of organisms that develops into a colony
of normal appearance on the plate.  We all know that yeast reproduces by
budding.  After the bud is a certain size it is considered a new organism
and counted separately even though the two are still attached.  This mother
yeast cell and daughter bud will be counted as 1 CFU.  Sometimes yeast or
bacteria can form clumps of organisms significantly greater that 2.
Therefore 1 CFU does not necessarily mean that one yeast cell or one
bacterial cell is present per volume.

Going to Wyeasts page we note three pertinent statements:

Average cell counts are 35 - 75 X 108/ ml
Bacteria ; < 1 cfu / ml
Wild Yeast and Mold ; Negative in 10 ml suspension


What does this tell us:
First to pass this bacterial requirement we should see less than 1 cfu per
milliliter.  This would imply that we would need to have a negative
bacterial count if we tested 1 mL of sample, or less than ten organisms
(CFU) if we plated 10 mL.  If we plated 10 mL of suspension and got 5 CFU
that would be 0.5 cfu/mL and thus meet the standard.

Further consider that the average cell count mentioned above is
5,500,000,000 (5.5 billion cells) per milliliter.  So the standard tells us
that we should have less than 1 bacterial cfu / 5.5 Billion yeast cells.

Also consider the Wild Yeast and Mold standard - negative in 10 ml.  That
means less than one organism in 10 mL or less than 1 Wild Yeast (and Mold)
organism in 55 Billion Beer Yeast Cells.

The Dry Yeast standard commented on by Matt in HBD2929 was Less that 1 Wild
Yeast per 2,000,000 beer yeast cells.  Although this sounds good - less than
1 in 2 Million, it is higher than the Wyeast standard of less than 1 in 55
Billion beer cells.  The Wyeast standard is 27.5 times better.

Note that the Wyeast Page gives information regarding their Brewery size
product.  I could find no info regarding the Smack Pack Homebrew product.
Regarding the Smack Pack Homebrew product the important numbers are the
numbers after the pack has been smacked and/or a starter prepared.  Some of
this relies upon Wyeast sanitation but the homebrewers abilities and care in
making the starter are also (perhaps more) important.

The Dry Yeast product does not rely upon our abilities in producing a
starter.

Regards,
Rick Wood
Brewing on Guam




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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:08:10 -0800
From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at filenet.com>
Subject: RE: Wyeast 1968, easy starter oxygenation


Scott, Brewing in Columbia, SC. responds to Mark's earlier post:

>>I intend to use Wyeast 1968 for an ordin'ry next weekend.  I've heard that
>>it is very flocculent and requires rousting during primary.  Is this true?
>>If so, what is a rousting plan that provides satisfactory results?
>
>Hi, Mark.  Great choice of yeast.  This is one of my favorites, and is very
>good in bitters.  I would like to burst your Momily, though.  I have also
>heard this same comment about 1968, and it seems to get repeated very
often.
>In my experience, I have never had any difficulty in getting it to ferment
>out.

This is one of my favorite yeasts too.  I think it gets its reputation for
dropping out in mid-ferment from temperature sensitivity.  If I keep it
above 64-65F it always does fine, but if the ferment temp drops much below
that it acts like it "faints" and just drops out.  That is when I've had to
rouse it after bringing the temp back to 66-68F (my target), and it just
goes back to work like nothing happened.

By the way, an easy way I oxygenate my starters is to purge the headspace of
the starter's vessel with pure O2, close them and just shake the foamy h*ll
out of 'em.  I think it's a lot less risky and intrusive than plopping my
airstone in and bubbling.  I oxygenate them like this  two to four times per
step, usually whenever I walk past it and haven't done it for awhile.
There's immense surface area exposed to O2 in the foamy mess inside.

Cheers,
Charles Rich


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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:12:15 -0500
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Brew Stands

Badger said:

>I am on the verge of making this step myself.. and i was wondering if
people
>had recomendations for Brewstands that i can buy, not being a welder or
>knowing of one...

First, I would like to second the question.  I've begun researching
commercially available stands and haven't found many.  Badger, check out
www.onlinebeer.com for one option.  I've also found that St. Pats
www.stpats.com has a cart-like three-tier stand.  Sabco, of course, has a
full blown RIMS available also.

Secondly, if anyone has other recommended brewing stands, I would appreciate
hearing about them.  I would like one with three burners and the appropriate
gas lines.  I'd looking at using coolers for the HLT and mash tun, and
purchasing/making a single keg for the boil pot, for now, but expanding to
1/2 BBL HLT and mash tun as funds become available.

Thanks in advance.

Mark  "meeting with the GA House Regulated Beverage Committee next week on
6% limit - wish me luck"  Nelson
Atlanta GA USA




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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:28:02 EST
From: CptOzzy at aol.com
Subject: Reply to Tom's question about Aluminum foil

Tom

I'll let you know in a week or two. I currently have 6 gal of IPA and 6 gal
of California common in primary.
I already have the bottles cleaned, sanitized, rinsed
and capped with aluminum foil. I'll rinse them one more time before use,
but I had some time to kill a few days ago so I thought I'd get the bottles
ready.

Cpt. Ozzy


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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:05:07 -0500
From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: Mash Temp Calculations

I have put together a web page this contains all the formulas necessary for
infusion and decoction mash calculations. These formulas will allow you to
calculate:

Amount of Initial Strike Water for an infusion mash.
Temperature of Initial Strike Water for an infusion mash.
Amount of Step Infusion Water Required to boost the mash to the next temp.
Temperature of Step Infusion Water Required to boost the mash to the next
temp.
Decoction Mass of Mash Required to boost the mash to the next temp.
Temperature of Decoction Required to boost the mash to the next temp.

Check it out and let me know if I have made any errors.

The link is: http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/varady/hbmash.htm

Later and Enjoy.

John


 




John Varady                     * New email address ***> rust1d at usa.net
Glenside, PA                    http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady



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Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:54:42 -0500
From: Jim Suggs <jvsuggs at clarityconnect.com>
Subject: old-style keg conversion


As traffic is pretty light, I'll throw a question into the fray:

I've decided to upgrade some equipment this winter, instead of spending a
lot of time actually brewing.  I finally visited my local junkyard looking
for scrap kegs.  They had a couple, but they were of an older (not Sankey)
style.  I brought one home.  It's got some kind of valve on top, and a
wood/cork bung in a hole in the side.  

I'm thinking of using it as a mash/lauter tun, with an easymasher(TM).
I've already got a nice big converted Sankey kettle.  My question is this -
is there an easy way to seal that hole, or better yet, use it for something
useful?  Or am I going to be stuck trying to get a plate welded there?

Thanks a lot,
 -suggs

The Dungeon Brewery
Corning, NY
Far enough away from Jeff Renner not to really matter.


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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:50:32 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

		The Jethro Gump Report
>From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
>Subject: New Dry Yeasts...
>Can you give any hints as to specific ones?  So we can really drool, and
>get all lathered up for their eventual release.

	Sorry, not yet....but you will drool! And keep your lather to yourself!
(You know, FermCap might help control that lather!)

>Any suggestions as to who to write to encourage them to release to us
>sooner?

	You just did!

>From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
>Subject: RE: The Jethro Gump Report/2
>The Chief of Engineering of the starship Enterprise, Scotty, has always
>kept
>his position, as he knows the fine art of supplying and reducing output on
>demand. "But captain - she's already at 110 percent, any more and I am
>afraid she'll blow"

	"Dammit, Ron, I'm a BREWER, not a STARSHIP ENGINEER!"
	No, one of the best things I ever did was work for another brewery, where I
could learn new procedures, and techniques.....I wish there were about 20
more!
	 More than that, and the same principle applies to homebreweries, is the
opportunity to see the flaws, and benefits in a brewing setup.....and learn
from them....and there are benefits/flaws in EVERY brewery.........
	And in every brewery, there lies an opportunity to learn.....and that I
did......
	Besides, Scotty never brewed a Hemp Ale, I'll bet!

Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
brewer at isunet.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:15:26 -0800
From: "rrscott" <rrscott at jps.net>
Subject: Re: Stainless steel screen

I use a large 3M "greeny meanie" scratch pad rolled into a tube and held
onto the copper tube in the kettle with a stainless steel hose clamp.  Use
another small hose clamp at the far end of the tube to seal it.  They filter
quite well, yet have good flow.  Restaurant supply stores should have the
oversize pads.  Their normal use is for cleaning pots and pans.

Bob Scott


From: Doug Moyer <shyzaboy at geocities.com>
Subject: Stainless steel screen

Brewers,
    Inspired by Jack Schmidling's web page, I am putting together my own
version of an EasyMasher (R). Does anyone know of a good source of
stainless steel screen? Jack's page mentions kitchen strainers. What
have the rest of you DIYers done?



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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:07:33 -0800
From: Brendan Persinger <kapital at exo.com>
Subject: Re: Coffee Stout


>I've made one coffee stout, and sampled several batches made by a
>close friend. All
>were made with 1/4 to 1/2 cup of ground coffee beans added 10 or 15
>minutes prior to
>the end of the boil. Then strained out while pouring into the
>fermentor. They all
>tasted good, but 1/2 cup makes for a VERY coffee stout. My next batch
>will have 1/4
>to 3/8 cup in it. I'm afraid to admit it, but I just made a porter

I haven't tried brewing a coffee stout, because up until now I didn't have
any clue as to how much coffee to use.  However, I do brew coffee all the
time in a French press, which is a bit more "hands-on" than a coffee
machine.  I use beans that aren't completely ground up (still a bit
"chunky"), add water at around 200 degrees F, steep for 4 minutes, then
filter.  My girlfriend, who has worked for Starbucks for a couple of years,
insists that coffee shouldn't be boiled or steeped too long, as these
extract harsh flavors (tannins, maybe? not sure...) from the grounds.
Based on this, for a coffee stout I'd try steeping the coffee grounds for
about 4 or 5 minutes shortly before the wort boils.  

On a related note, depending on how fresh your coffee beans are and what
you're using as a filtering medium, you might extract oils from the coffee
beans (regular paper coffee filters remove these oils; I don't know what
effect a cloth 'specialty grain'-type bag would have)  which might affect
the head retention in your final product.

 -brendan


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:28:45 -0500
From: Steve McKenna <stmckenna at compuserve.com>
Subject: Drunk Monk Challenge

		   The Urban Knaves of Grain Present

			     The 1st Annual

			  DRUNK MONK CHALLENGE

		AHA/BJCP-sanctioned homebrew competition

       March 6, 1999 at Founders Hill Brewery, Downers Grove, IL

This is the first event in the race for 1999 Midwest Homebrewer of the 
Year.

Accepting all AHA categories of beer, mead, and cider, plus THE MENACE
OF THE MONASTERY, a special category for the best beer in a style
traditionally associated with monks: Belgian dubbel (2b), tripel (2c),
pale (2d), strong pale (2e), and strong dark (2f), and German doppelbock
(12c).

Entries:  $5 each for 1-4 entries, $4 each for 5 or more entries.
Menace of the Monastery entries are $2 each (counted separately).
Two bottles required (just one for Menace), all the usual rules.

Awards:  ribbons for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in each category judged, plus
1st-2nd-3rd Best of Show and 1st-2nd-3rd Menace of the Monastery.  1st
place BoS receives a one-year membership in the AHA; 1st place Menace
receives a free entry in the 1999 AHA National Homebrew Competition.
Raffle will be held after the competition for volunteers.

Deadline:  Entries must arrive between February 20 and 27.

Ship to:  The Drunk Monk Challenge, c/o Two Brothers Brewery, 30W114
Butterfield Rd., Warrenville, IL 60555.

Drop-offs:  You may also drop off your entries in person at Two Brothers
Brewery, Founders Hill Brewery, or Beer in a Box (Winfield, IL).  In
addition, we will accept entries at the CBS 1st Thursday meeting at
Goose Island Brewery in Chicago on March 4.  Since this is after the
entry deadline, those bringing entries on March 4 MUST pre-register by
mailing entry forms and fees to the Two Brothers address before Feb. 27.
Judges and stewards may bring entries with them on competition day, but
only if they are pre-registered by Feb. 27.

Social:  volunteers' party will be held on Friday night, March 5.
Potluck on Saturday after the competition.  Details to be announced
later.  Beds For Brewers will be available for out-of-town volunteers.

Contacts:  for competition info:  Shane Coombs, srcoombs at synsysinc.com,
630-393-7303 (H), 630-820-5150 (W).  For judge/steward info:  Joe
Formanek, jformanek at griffithlabs.com, 630-378-4694 (H).

Even more info, including entry forms:  see the Drunk Monk Challenge
website, http://www.synsysinc.com/srcoombs/ukgdmc.htm, or the UKG
website, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/stmckenna/ukg.html.

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:47:27 -0500
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dake at gdi.net>
Subject: More on Cutting out Keg Tops

Yesterday, I cut out the top of a stainless steel keg to convert into a
brewing kettle.  Here's what worked for me.:

I used a standard reciprocating saw (Saws-all) with a standard
fine-tooth blade.  I rested the saw on the keg handles to use as a
guide.  After marking my line, I made 3 drill holes closed together near
my starting point.  Using a chisel on the holes, I created a slot to get
started.  I did the sawing and my father kept it lubricated with a
tremendous amount of oil (we used a 50%/50% mix of motor oil and mineral
spirits).  We only used one blade!  I did the final deburring with a
rounded file. The job was complete in about 20 minutes.  I think the key
was making it a two-man job and using a lot of lubricant. The only thing
I would do different next time is to use a longer blade.

Don Lake
Orlando, Florida
dlake at amuni.com








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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:59:55 -0700
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Blue Corn Beer

>From Jeff Renner:

> >Markus Berndt <Markus.Berndt at Colorado.EDU> asks
> 
> >I came across a box of blue corn
> >meal. Has anyone ever used this and, does it have any effect on the color
> >of the resulting beer?
> 
> Never have, and I don't think I've heard of anyone using it, either.  I
> hope if you do, you'll report back.

Check HBD2238.  "Dutch" (no other name given) did a batch with blue
corn, and reports that while the resulting beer was darker than
expected, most of the blue color stayed in the mash tun.

- -- 
*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
kenbob at elp.rr.com
http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer


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Date: 22 Jan 1999 08:45:22 -0500
From: Jason.Gorman at steelcase.com
Subject: yeast


I plan on making a dubbel or trippel.  Are there any good Belgian imports that
bottle with the original strain that I could make a starter from?  I know many
of them bottle condition with a different strain than they ferment with.


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:49:58 -0800
From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com>
Subject: Solenoid Valves

Grainger (http://www.grainger.com) has a brass solenoid valve part#
1a577, and the matching 24V coil is part# 3a439. The temperature rating
is 180F, and should run about $60 a copy.


Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Long Beach CA
http://andinator.com/zymico


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:19:03 -0500
From: Wade Hutchison <whutchis at bucknell.edu>
Subject: Re: Whiskey yeast

I was fortunate enough to visit a distillery in Scotland last
summer, and I was trying to get some information out of the 
distillers, who were just hanging around and cleaning up.
They claimed they used "distiller's yeast" that they
bought from some (beer) brewery - they also said they skim
the kraesen (sp?) off the beer tanks and re-pitch.  So at
least Glengoyne seems to care (a little) about the yeast strain 
they use.  

The beer fermenters were pretty cool - they were about 20 feet 
high, and 10 feet across wooden tuns - with no airlocks 
or seals on the top.  Of course, they also only ferment
for 48 hours before they start to distill.  All-in-all,
a way cool place.

>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:07:53 -0500
>From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
>Subject: whisky yeast
>
>"Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>, back from the
>wilderness, writes:
>
>>Jeff Renner adds
>>>Oddly enough, the distillers are not particularly fussy
>>>about yeast and typically use dry yeast.
>>I'm not sure that selecting dry yeast means that distillers are less picky.
>
<snip>

	


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:19:15 -0500
From: "John Griswold" <griswold at ma.ultranet.com>
Subject: Solenoids, Polenta, SS Screen

>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:13:14 -0500
>From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at usit.net>
>Subject: Source for Solenoid Valves
>
>Any one have a source for low voltage, liquid (sparge water temps),
>solenoid valves.

You might check W.W.Grainger.  They have more stuff than Sears!
www.grainger.com
Another wonderful resource for all things industrial is the Thomas Register
( www.thomasregister.com ) which lists manufacturers of almost everything...
Cheers!


Jeff Renner writes about cornmeal/polenta:

>This has been reported to me as being used successfully (I happily seem to
>be a clearing house for CAP).  It is pricier than ordinary corn meal.  Be
>sure to mash any cornmeal with 30% malt for ~20 min. before boiling it and
>adding it back to the main mash.

This (along with a bunch of other stuff) confuses me.  Why mash the cornmeal
prior to boiling it, which (presumably) gelatinizes the starch contained
within the corn.  Isn't this contrary to "conventional wisdom"?  I've always
read that the adjuncts (rice, corn, whatever) must be fully cooked prior to
being added to the mash.

Thanks in advance for more education...

>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:51:38 -0500
>From: Doug Moyer <shyzaboy at geocities.com>
>Subject: Stainless steel screen
>
>Brewers,
>    Inspired by Jack Schmidling's web page, I am putting together my own
>version of an EasyMasher (R). Does anyone know of a good source of
>stainless steel screen? Jack's page mentions kitchen strainers. What
>have the rest of you DIYers done? Copper or brass would also be good, I
>guess.

I've seen elsewhere that reinforced hoses for washing machines have a
stainless braid within them.  Can't confirm - my wife won't let me dissect
her washing machine...


John Griswold
griswold at ma.ultranet.com
http://www.ultranet.com/~griswold






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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:40:41 -0500
From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com
Subject: More Fun with Air Tools!

In my post regarding cutting out the tops of Sankey kegs, I failed to
mention that the same tools can be used to cut a hole for a ball valve:

Mark the location with "cross-hairs" and a circle the size of the desired
hole with a "Sharpie" marker.  Using the disc of the muffler cut-off tool
(put your face shield and hearing protection back on!), make a series of
cuts in the shape of an asterisk within the circle.  You probably won't be
able to cut through the wall of the keg with a fresh disc (lessee here, the
chord length of a section of circle of diameter d is equal to ...) but you
can still remove a lot of material.  By the time you've made 8 - 10 cuts,
you should be able to see the "star" forming on the inner wall of the keg.
A little judicious use of the disc from the inside, centered on the star,
will open the hole.

Using a conical stone in your die grinder (you *did* buy a die grinder
along with your cutoff tool and compressor, *didn't* you?  Everybody Sing!:
"Spend Big Money At Menard's")  begin to open the hole to the full
diameter.  Watch that you don't wear the stone through in a single spot --
when the end breaks off you'll have a hot piece of stone doin' maybe 20,000
rpm careening around the ol' garage lookin' for something to smash.  When
it's the right diameter, deburr the edges inside and out as much as
possible, and install your fitting and/or ball valve.

Mark in Kalamazoo




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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:05:06 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: More on dry yeast purity

Having the spec sheets on Copper's dry yeast I will relay their data. 
They
state a control level of <20,000 aerobes/gram, <200 lactics/gram. This 
may
seem to be a lot of aerobes for a yeast culture. If a 7 gram packet was 
to
be pitched in 5 gallons of wort 

(I gonna call 5 gallons 20,000mL, a 0.396% error) this would give
<140,000 aerobes/20,000mL = <7 aerobes/mL. George Fix calls less
than 50 cells/mL acceptable for pitching yeast, less than 7 cells/mL
I guess would be excellent. Consider if you step up a liquid culture
2 times in making your starter, you would have to be working in a
laminar flow hood in lab conditions, that most homebrewers don't have, to

avoid picking up 50 aerobes at the the first transfer. Then
there is the lag time where you are aerating the whole time favoring
the aerobes. The aerobes are multiplying before the yeast start
budding and fermenting. It is easy to see that though the liquid
cultures we get are very pure; by the time we've made starters and
exposed the starters to atmosphere 2 or 3 times the purity probably
just only matches the purity of a quality dry yeast. This does not
address the viability of the yeasts in these cultures. The drying
of the yeasts causes mutation and a loss of viability (these specs
weren't given) but if you don't use an excellent yeast nutrient
in your starters the liquid yeast will suffer mutation and loss
of viability also.
  The point being; don't be afraid of the dry yeasts available these
days. They are a clean, easy way to a beer. If your schedule is tight
and you can't plan 5 days in advance to bring up a liquid culture then go

with the dry. The time that you didn't use making starter solutions can 
be
spent on wort production or maybe bottling, or maybe
drinking!
   

  


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:05:12 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: Maybe "D", none of the above

In reading about the evolution of the Guinness gas for a creamy head. I
understood the idea was to create a creamy head like that produced by a
hand pulled stout from a beer engine. To that end the engineers had to
conquer the problem of how to push beer through 5 tiny holes with enough
pressure to produce a good tight head without over-carbonating. So 
lowering
the partial pressure of the CO2 by mixing with N2 let them drive the beer

through a "sparkler" that
created the shearing forces that "bust out" the CO2 to form the fine 
head.
The head quality is dependant on the protein levels of the beer
and the disruption of the CO2 as it is dispensed. So it boils down to
the special faucet used in nitrogen dispense that actually forms the
head. The Guinness-gas is just the enabler.

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:05:13 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: Foamy aeration

John Herman asks how to manage aeration with all that foaming. This is
simple, use "Anti-Foam", frequently used by wine makers to avoid losses 
due
to foaming. Start with 4 or 5 drops and add a drop or two as the foaming
returns. Any shop that deals with Crosby-Baker should carry it, or can 
get
it for you.

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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:56:30 -0600
From: Kris and Marie Cowling <cowling at northnet.net>
Subject: Lager bottling question

Hello brewers:

I'm a novice homebrewer; been brewing extract for about a year.  I've been 
lurking on this list for a while, and now I have a simple (hopefully) question 
to ask.

I'm currently lagering my first attempt at a lager and want to know if the beer 
should be bottled at lagering temps and allowed to bottle condition at room 
temp, or should the beer be allowed to warm to room temp before bottling?  I 
expect to bottle this batch in about two weeks or so.

Thanks for any and all advice!

- --Kris Cowling
  Winneconne, Wisconsin


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:10:10 -0500
From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
Subject: sweetness source

collective homebrew conscience_

scott murman wrote:

>A high sacc. temp. also shouldn't contribute much sweetness, per se.Any
sugar in the wort will >be consumed by the yeast, unless somethingis very
wrong. 

what is the source of sweetness in beer?  if the yeast consume all the
sugar, what makes the sweet beer styles sweet?

brew hard,

mark bayer
great mills, md (but only until april)


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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:41:33 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: whisky yeast

As it turns out Jeff Renner is also a whisky nut - another reason why I need
get to Ann Arbor sometime soon.


>"Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>, back from the
>wilderness, writes:
>
>>Jeff Renner adds
>>>Oddly enough, the distillers are not particularly fussy
>>>about yeast and typically use dry yeast.
>>I'm not sure that selecting dry yeast means that distillers are less
picky.
>
>I was basing my comments in part on the interview with Michael Jackson in
>Malt Advocate - late Fall issue, p. 38 "I think they [Scottish distillers]
>massively fail to comprehend the importance of yeast strains.  There's
>really a whole lot that hasn't been explored there."

Perhaps he is right.  M.Jackson's 'World Guide to Whisky' pg 9 mentions the
use of dried yeast.  J.S.Hough. 'Biotechnology of Malting anf Brewing'
mentions frequent use of a mix of brewing and distillery yeast.   Mort
O'Sullivan wrote to me by private email some time ago (I trust Mort won't
mind being quoted in this regard) that ...
M>Traditionally, distillers used a mix of "distiller's" yeast and brewery
M>yeast from the closest brewery. These days, the trend is to use only
M>distillers "M" yeast, which is a strain developed by DCL and Maclays
M>Brewery of Alloa (hence the "M"), but it is now provided to distilleries
by
M>baker's yeast manufacturers.

'Food Chemistry' Belitz&Grosch, (Springer-Verlag) mentions the importance of
certain esters, acetaldehyde, acetals, carbonyls, certain phenols and
various nitrogen compounds (like pyrazines) in whiskey.  Some clearly are
fermentation byproducts, while some others are the result of yeast
autolysing in the boiling still !!

I guess I still don't know whether distillery yeast selection is primarily
based on flavor or functional characteristics - but the yeast, whether dried
or not,  are selected with some degree of care.  Perhaps not enough - but I
have a hard time perceiving the fermentation flaws in a Springbank 21 or a
Bowmore 17.

Steve




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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:45:54 -0800
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
Subject: CAP question

Jeff Renner writes:
>>  Oh, here is another question. Next to the corn meal I found polenta,
>>which is coarsly ground corn. Can this be used instead of corn meal or
>>flaked maize (of course I will boil it to gelatinize it)?
>
>This has been reported to me as being used successfully (I happily seem to
>be a clearing house for CAP).  It is pricier than ordinary corn meal.  Be
>sure to mash any cornmeal with 30% malt for ~20 min. before boiling it and
>adding it back to the main mash.

Why?
I forget exactly what gelatinization is, but why mash the cornmeal first,
then boil, then mash again?

Thanks.


Bryan Gros    gros at bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA

Organizer, 1999 National Bay Area Brew Off
http://www.valhallabrewing.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm



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---