HOMEBREW Digest #2953 Sat 13 February 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Competition Calendar (HBD Competition Calendar)
  re:Bock again, copper not soluble in acid (Jeff)
  Copper (AJ)
  Oxygen Barrier Caps (Dan Listermann)
  racking tip (Mike Allred)
  dispensing from corny kegs ("Spies, Jay")
  Re: Alcohol content and fortification (Jeff Renner)
  What is Dry Hopping? ("Kelly")
  New Millineum brews... ("Kelly")
  netscape reading my hbd (jim williams)
  Capturing CO2, yeast sutolysis,high "FG" barleywines, Brett (Dave Burley)
  Lager Hops question (Tony Zara)
  Fermentation Under Pressure (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Motor for Mill, What  RPM? (Badger Roullett)
  RE: Bottle thingies (Guy Burgess)
  re: beer and food ("Riedel, Dave")
  RIMS Design (Joe KISH)
  Re: Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Re: candi sugar (Scott Murman)
  keg lube/QD posts (John Wilkinson)
  Horse beer (John Wilkinson)
  Duesseldorfer Altbier (BrewInfo)
  Re. Barleywine stuck at 1.038 (Dean Fikar)
  Miscellaneous Beer Thoughts (Ted McIrvine)
  13th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition (steve)
  Challenge! Scientific Measurement for Autolysis (Randy Shreve)
  White Labs vs. Wyeast (Paul Kerchefske)
  Real Ale or Bust ("Dan Buche")
  Brettanomyces (Andrew Smith)
  Re: Precipitating Bicarbonates ("Arnold J. Neitzke")
  A new momily? (Steve Jackson)
  Yeast's affect on head retention (Steve Jackson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:25:45 -0500 (EST) From: HBD Competition Calendar <calendar at brew.oeonline.com> Subject: Competition Calendar Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Folks, some pitiful, childish fool took it upon him/her self last week to attempt to stuff the Competition Calendar with gibberish. Not a big problem, just that I haven't the time to go and clean up the file everytime some idiot's IQ drops sub-zero. Due to this, we have another case of one jackass spoiling it for all. The Competition Calendar is no longer open for posting. You can still access the calendar and read entries - you simply cannot directly post entries any longer. At the bottom of the calendar is a link to a mail address - Calendar at hbd.org - and a list of requirements to be fulfilled in your e-mail. If you have a competition you'd like to add to the calendar, send a note to Calendar at hbd.org containing the information as indicated on the calendar page, and we'll take care of it. ALLOW PLENTY OF LEAD TIME. Unfortunately, we can not be as timely as you could have been. Allow enough time that we can post your information before you expect to see entries. Hopefully we'll be able to contain this system until some idiot-proofed entry form can be developed. Thank you! The HBD Competition Calendar Note: The requirements as copied from the web page are provided below: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Because some childish simpleton decided to increase my workload by entering gibberish into the calendar, it has been locked. If you wish to make an entry, contact calendar at hbd.org. Include the following: 1 Your Name 2 Your e-mail address 3 The competition name 4 Competition website (if any) 5 Contact name and e-mail or phone (with area code) 6 Entry deadline (might want a "entries received from - to" format) 7 Competition date or judging dates (begin/end) 8 Date score sheets, ribbons, etc are expected to be mailed to brewer by 9 Any specifics: style limitations, etc. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:05:38 -0500 (EST) From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff) Subject: re:Bock again, copper not soluble in acid Hi All, The other day Dave Burley wrote: >Interestingly, copper bowls are used to make nice stiff egg whites >because the miniscule amount of copper atoms ( from the dissolved >copper oxide) react with the albumin to crosslink protein chains and >make a stiffer foam. So I sent him the following via private email: > Could this reaction between copper and protien chains have any >implications for brewing? Maybe break formation or foam postive >protien development? Is albumin present in wort? His response is probably of general interest to the collective, so here it is: >Albumin is just a general name for water soluble proteins, so they >certainly do occcur in beer. In large quantities,copper forms complexes >with tannins from hops and proteins to generate a metallic haze. Iron >does also. These can be difficult to remove. > >However, I would guess that minor amounts of copper might have the same >effect of stiffening the head on a beer which consists of a water/alcohol >film with surfactants made up of proteins and hop tannins > >Good observation!! Why not incorporate your question and my answer in a >response to the HBD? After a few years of reading the HBD all of this pointy-headed stuff actually makes sense! :) Hoppy brewing, Jeff ========================================================================== Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 832-1390 Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 832-7250 Naval Undersea Warfare Center email: Systems Development Branch mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Code 8321; Bldg. 1246/2 WWW: Newport, RI 02841-1708 http://www.nuwc.navy.mil/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:27:09 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Copper Dave Burley posted a day or 2 ago to the effect that copper is not dissolved by acids because of the relative positions of H+ and Cu in the electromotive series. This does not say that copper won't dissolve, it just says that the equilibrium is way over on the copper side so that the amounts of copper ion found in an acid soultion after exposure are miniscule - certainly not enough for a brewer to worry about. Many people with wells (and as I recall Dave is one of them) can testify that the carbonic acid from well water is corrosive to copper piping. Again the rate of corrosion is quite slow so that it takes years (typically) for those little pinhole leaks to occur. This means that the amount of copper pickup is small. Water from my well picks up 1 mg/L Cu in standing overnight in the pipe. If the water has been running to the point where the pipe is flushed, the level is much lower than this. There are things in well water besides acid which aid in the dissolution of copper such as clear water (ferrous) iron and dissolved oxygen. Nevertheless even deionized water will dissolve copper and this can be verified by placing a clean penny in some and checking the copper ion content after a day or so. In this case the acid comes from dissolved CO2 from the air and so I suppose one could argue that dissolved O2 from the air may also play a role. Use of the Nernst equation with the electromotive series potentials to calculate the equilibrium quantity of copper dissolved by acid at pH around 6 results in very small dissolved levels indeed. The real point to all this is that wort will pick up copper from copper kettles from a combination of factors. The acid, dissolved O2 in the wort, other oxidizing agents in the wort etc., but this is not a bad thing. Copper is not a poison in reasonable quantities. The lethal dose for humans is estimated to be between 3.5 and 35 grams. The Food and Nutrition Board established a "safe and adequate" daily dietary intake of 1.5 to 3.0 mg. As some British and German beers contains up to 0.8 mg/L readers are advised to keep consumption of these beers below 3.75 L (just about a gallon, so that's easy to remember) per day. Apparantly 10 mg/day can cause nausea though it had been reported that chronic doses of up to 35 mg/day are tolerated without adverse effect in some cases. Don't forget that barley contains some copper. Just as our cells need copper, so do yeast cells. Some brewers throw pennies (or pfenige or whatever the copper currency of the realm) or bits of copper in the brew kettle to make sure there is some in the wort. According to H,B,S&Y copper levels in beer range from 0.01mg/L to the previously mentione 0.8 mg/L with average levels of 0.19 mg/L in German beers and 0.11 mg/L in "lagers". British beers range over 0.3 to 0.8 mg/L. Wine, like wort, dissolves copper metal. The wine industry often runs their product over copper sheeting or through copper piping to reduce sulfide (someone mentioned this earlier in this thread). If the exposure is excessive the result is "copper casse" which I believe refers to the situation in which much copper is dissolved that it can be tasted (the EPA's secondary limit for copper in water is 1 mg/L so that's probably about the level at which it's detectable by taste). I was recently contacted by a gentleman who had dipped copper wire into his wines to pull sulfide rather than using his usual copper sulfate treatment and wanted them tested for copper. Four samples (different wines) averaged 0.36 mg/L. Summary: 1. Dissolution of copper by acid is thermodynamically "unfavorable" but does occur to a very limited extent. 2. There are lots of other effects which get copper dissolved in wort which are probably responsible for the majority dissolved in the kettle. 3. Barley contains copper. 4. Copper isn't poisonous at low levels and is required for human (and yeast) health. 5. Don't drink more than a gallon of German or British beer in a day. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:26:16 -0500 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Oxygen Barrier Caps Eric Dreiher asks about oxygen barrier caps. I started to question the usefullness of these when I noticed that the caps tend to puncture the bags that they are packaged in. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:23:14 -0500 From: Mike Allred <mike.allred at malnove.com> Subject: racking tip Last night I was raking a Cyser and oxidized the hell out of it because the tubing kept bending upward and creating a # at (*& fountain in the second carboy. The tubing insists on keeping the curved shape from the roll it came on. With nothing else to lose, I tried something new. I cut about 1 foot off an extra raking cane I had and added it to the end of the hose. I worked perfect! This keeps the end down under the fluid level where I want it. I would highly recommend this method to anyone else having the same problems. Now, I just hope I didn't damage my Cyser too bad. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:54:16 -0500 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: dispensing from corny kegs All - Regarding the thread on dispensing from cornies - Here's a thought . . . Get a 5 pound used fire extinguisher (local shop has them for 25 bucks, hydro'd and filled) get a single gauge regulator (30 bucks if you shop around) and forget all the complicated CO2 transferring/holding/storage/pressure regulation nonsense. If you *really* like to tinker, by all means, be my guest, but for around $60, you're off and running with a *real* CO2 dispensing system that is foolproof and will likely lessen your Maalox consumption in the long run. Just my .02 . . . Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:02:48 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Alcohol content and fortification Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> added more info on alcohol tolerance, which I agree with, except regarding port: >The increased alcohol content halts bottle aging and causes the >wine to keep for long periods of time, thus 100 year old ports and sherrys. Vintage ports definitely age in the bottle - wonderfully. When first bottled - around two years, as I recall, they pretty rough. I have a half case of Warre '77 I haven't even opened yet. It's still just getting better. The fortification does certainly allow long life, though. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:32:53 -0600 From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: What is Dry Hopping? Hi All, Quick newbie question...I've seen references to 'Dry Hopping' in association with oxidation...could someone explain what this process is? I've only put hops in the wort while boiling.....what is it, and what are the benefits? TIA!! Kelly New Orleans PS. Happy Mardi Gras!! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:36:28 -0600 From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: New Millineum brews... Hey, just a thought, if you are making a 'New Millineum' barley wine....it will have plenty of time to age. You will drink it in 2001..... Year 2000 isn't the change of the millenium, 2001 is. We started at year 1, not year 0.... Just a thought.... Kelly Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:56:38 -0800 From: jim williams <jim&amy at macol.net> Subject: netscape reading my hbd Alright, a computer related beer question: I can't finish reading my hbd sometimes, because netscape cuts it off about two thirds of the way down. Maybe ther's something else I need to do, but I don't know what it is. i used to be on aol. I had to download the hbd, before I could read it. Is this what needs to happen here? If so, how do I do it. Please, I'm not incredibly computer literate. Thanks, Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:15:05 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Capturing CO2, yeast sutolysis,high "FG" barleywines, Brett Brewsters: Simon is musing over pressure fermentations as a way of capturing CO2 and puts forth the thought that perhaps the reason soda pop does not ferment in the bottle is because the pressure keeps it from fermenting. Don't believe it! Champagne bottles typically go to 5 or 6 atmospheres of CO2. This would produce a glass grenade of most bottles, as some unfortunate brewers know from first hand experience. I haven't read a soda bottle or a can for a long time, but I suspect they use potassium sorbate or the like to prevent fermentation in the can or bottle. Certainly the CO2 pressure wouldn't do it. Frankly, I puzzled for many years over this possibility of capturing the CO2 from the fermentation, tried lots of ideas and eventually settled on the Cornelius keg route long before I ever read about it in any homebrewing magazine or book. I minimized the amount of CO2 I used by using natural carbonation from priming the keg with sugar and an actively fermenting kraeusen starter ( see the archives), just like I had been doing in bottles for decades. Later I tried the minikeg route to allow me to have a keg in upstairs fridge and to transport it to a party and the like. I tried at first to carbonate it in the minikeg as I do in the keg by natural fermentation, but found that the amount of priming sugar for a lager produced a bulging keg. In all, the cost of the minikeg adventure was nearly the same as the Cornelius keg and has a lot higher cost for CO2., limits on the pressure and really just was not as good as the Cornelius keg. I eventually came back to the conventional Cornelius keg with CO2 tank and the like as the most practical method. On the small scale that we brew it is unlikely we will be able to capture the CO2 economically and safely. - ----------------------------------- George De Piro's and other recent comments on yeast autolysis needs some filtering, I believe. Yeast autolysis is a possibiility, but frankly in several decades of brewing, and of using the natural carbonation method in which beer stands on yeast for up to a year, I can honestly say I have never experienced an autolysed taste in my beers. I would not describe the taste of fine champagne as meaty and the like adjectives which have been applied to autolysed yeast. Good champagne does have a "yeasty" taste but my beers do not get that taste either. If you want to smell autolysed yeast try some of that stuff ( like Vegamite) Brits and Ozzies lovingly put on their toast in the morning. Now that is autolysis! I have used lots of yeasts, but do not recall off the top of my head if I ever tried 1338, so I cannot comment on this one. I suspect George may be having another problem if he finds this in many of his beers.. - ------------------------------- For those of you who have been making high "FG" barleywines try "dropping" the barleywines two or three times during the early part of the fermentation by racking the wines into other carboys. Do not rack off the yeast, but transfer all of the contents from one carboy to another. If you have a large enough carboy, use a stirrer made of a dowel with a new moon shaped blade which can rotate so that it can be inserted into the carboy and removed. Coat it with polyurethane and allow it to dry a week before using.Spin the stirrer to stir up the yeast by rolling the dowel back and forth using the palms of the hands. This will keep yeast flocculation from allowing the wine to come to a premature finish of the fermentation. You may eventually come to the point where you can no longer get a reduction in the gravity and this will likely be the point at which the yeast will poop out. You can try adding another starter of the same or different yeast. S. Bayanus will ferment nearly dry in most cases, so use it with caution, especially when bottling with this and you have a sweet barleywine made with another yeast.. - ---------------------------------- George De Piro's reference to Michael Jackson and giving him credit for the term horsey,horseblanket, leathery, barnyard and the like is only off by several centuries when these terms were applied to Burgundy wines infected with Brettanomyces ( that so called "French" taste to Pinot Noir). Tasters of wines used to brag over their ability to identify tastes and some monks were supposedly quite remarkable. The (apocryphal) story goes that one monk described a wine as leathery and metallic only to find that the keg did contain a leather keyring with a key still attached! No, I do not think Michael Jackson should be given credit for developing descriptive language for beverages. Brettanomyces to me is an "unclean" taste opposite to the use of clean as we use it to describe beers. It is a background taste that does provide complexity and some people like it for that reason. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:21:18 -0600 From: Tony Zara <tzara at ncsbn.org> Subject: Lager Hops question Dear Collective, I want to make a german-type lager, but don't have the proper temperature control. So I thought I'd use Wyeast 2112 and the following recipe: for 5 gallons 9 lb German pilsner 1 lb Belgian aromatic 1 oz. Liberty (4% AA, leaf, first wort hopped) 1 oz. Perle (8% AA, leaf, 60 min.) 1 oz. Liberty (4% AA, leaf, 5 min.) 1 oz. Liberty (leaf, dryhopped) Wyeast 2112 in 1/2 gallon starter Mash in at 149 F; hold for 30 min; pull decoction, raise to 158 hold for 20 min; raise to boil for 15 min; let cool a bit; return to main mash and hold at 153 for 30 minutes, raise to 168 F; hold for 10 min. Sparge. Cool. Pitch. Ferment at about 60-62 F. til done; bottle condition; then lager at 33 F for a few weeks. My question is - I also have Mt. Hood hops available and wondered how they might work in this recipe? My understanding is that Mt. Hood and Liberty both have similar noble-type (Hallertau) hop properties, but I don't have any experience with Mt. Hood and have made only one beer using Liberty. Any experienced U.S. hoppers have some advice? TIA, Tony (35 mi. NW of Chicago) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:00:44 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: Fermentation Under Pressure >>>> Does anyone have information from a reliable resource which discusses the impact of pressure on fermentation? Specifically, Is there a point at which the fermentation activity of yeast will be significantly impacted due to increased pressure, and if so when? <<<< Reliable, no. Speculative, yes: I wonder just how much pressure yeast is going to be under at say, 30PSIG. I mean, really, if the yeast cell had a surface area of one square inch, then yes, 30PSI. But if you realize that the square inch of surface area of a yeast cell is such a small part of one square inch, then the pressure on the very small area would be hardly anything. That is, the 30 pounds per square inch multiplied by the square inches of a yeast cell would be very small indeed. I cannot see how this would have much affect unless the PSI pressure becomes extremely large. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:05:50 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle >>>> I still have a question about this idea of trying to save or use CO2 from primary fermentation for use in dispensing beer, so I'll ask it again: <<<<< I don't doubt that some way can be found, but I ask should this be done. The fermentation byproducts, some desirable, some not so desirable, would be all captured and incorporated into the beer's flavor profile. Would you want that sulfur aroma which is often expelled during fermentation to be captured and included in your beer? Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:35:45 -0800 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: Motor for Mill, What RPM? I finally got my Marga mill in from Brew Guys, and I have a general question about modifying mills to make the motorized.. What speed is best for milling grain? I have seen some neat looking motors for sale, but have NO IDEA what would be good. The cool surplus site, http://www.sciplus.com/ has some motors of a wide range available for cheap.. for example.. -1/30 horsepower 115 VAC, .65 amp continuous duty motor runs at 3300 rpm $5 - 1/20 horse unleashed as 1300/1600 rpm in a clockwise direction when fed .68/.76 amps of 120 VAC, 50/60 Hz single phase electricity. $7.50 - 72 RPM Synchronous Motor 120 VAC 25 oz.-in. of torque, $7.50 I dunno nuthin bout moters... can you all help me figure out what sort of specs i am looking for? thanks, Badger in seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:59:10 -0500 From: Guy Burgess <orientalwok at fuse.com> Subject: RE: Bottle thingies Bill Graham is in the market for a bottle filler: I have, for 4 years, been using a Phil's Philler from Listermann Mfg. I believe you can find it in most catalogs. It is minimally more expensive than the plastic versions and vastly more durable and efficient. This filler is all-metal construction therefore easily cleaned & sanitized. There is little foaming because of the valve construction and placment. IMHO, the biggest advantage is the lack of displacment and higher fill levels. Due to all the recent discussion of oxidation damage this is a real advantage. On the Philler, the valve is at the top of the fill tube and when you release pressure the liquid in the tube goes into the bottle. Thus the only displacement is from the volume of the tube itself, and that ain't much. I haven't used the plastic ones in a long time, but I think the Philler also fills faster which may or may not be a concern. I would also suggest you go ahead and get the longer version. In the event you ever want to bottle in larger bottles you'll be ready to go. I initially bought the shorter one, so now I have two Phillers. Guy Burgess Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:20:56 -0800 From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at PAC.DFO-MPO.GC.CA> Subject: re: beer and food Paul in Vermont relates an unpleasant experience with stout and a jerked chicken.... The one pairing that seems to always fail for me is beer and smoked salmon. Yeah, I said *beer*. I've tried, pilsner, light lager, pale ale, stout, dark lager... hoppy, not hoppy... nothing seems to work. You just end up with this fish/beer combo that lingers unpleasantly on the palate. Neither taste giving any ground to the other and no complementary mixing. Note: I haven't tried Rauchbier yet. That might work. Stephen Beaumont's book "A Taste For Beer" goes into detail regarding food and beer pairings. An interesting read... cheers, Dave Riedel Victoria, BC, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 23:53:59 -0800 From: Joe KISH <jjkish at worldnet.att.net> Subject: RIMS Design Rodney Ellis, Are you sure you want the Original Rodney Morris RIMS design? Do you want it complete with errors? It was published in Zymurgy Special Edition, vol 15, No4, 1992 pp49-54. Joe Kish Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:15:57 -0500 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Re: Dispensing from kegs without a CO2 bottle From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 02/10/99 03:15 PM It just hit me!! Use a party pig bag (or 2) inserted into the keg upon kegging. Build the pressure up to about 30 psi the piggy bag seal pops its self--bleed off the head space. With one you should be able to dispense half a keg, with 2 you should be able to dispense the whole keg. Granted that you would have to engineer a method of floating one above the other inside the keg in order to make 2 work, but it can be done. MMM how about attaching a S hook to the bottom corner of the down bag. The bags are rectangular and the air bladder is oval so there is a nice corner of flat double material to pierce through. By removing and putting back the dip tube you can slip the other end of the S hook into the dip tube and lower both to the bottom of the keg. If the S hook is to big and wont let the dip tube seat properly use a large paperclip. This will keep the Cliped bag on the bottom and the loose bag floating to the top. It will cost you about 7$ a keg, but its the best solution so far. Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Home Brewer Warden-Prison City Brewers AABG, AHA, BJCP, HBD, MCAB, ETC., ad nausium... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:52:11 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: candi sugar B R Rolya wrote: > I boiled approximately 2.25 cups of > sugar in 1 cup of water. After a half hour of boiling (and very little > color change), I got bored with watching the pot and decided that we would > brew with light candi sugar Are you sure it was the sugar that boiling? When doing this, the water is there simply to dissolve the sugar (to avoid scorching). This is then heated, first boiling off the water, then actually boiling the sugar-goo. It takes a bit of time to get the sugar really going, but once you do, it will darken, and darken quickly. Be careful, this stuff boils well over 212F. -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:58:10 -0600 From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: keg lube/QD posts William's Brewing has been mentioned as a possible source of keg lube and another is Superior Products. They have it by the 3 or 4 oz. tube for not much more than the Williams 1 oz. package. Of course, unless you have something else to order from them the postage could be as much as the lube. They also have the best prices I have seen for spigots. I don't have their number before me but information has it (1-800-555-1212). As to keg QD posts and poppets, the best and cheapest source I have seen for those and other keg parts is South Bay Homebrew Supply (800) 608-BREW. Their posts are US$5.50 for ball lock Firestone and US$6.50 for Cornelius. I am pretty sure they come complete with poppets. Poppets separately are US$1.95. I don't have any connection to any of the companies mentioned and have found them all good to deal with. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - john.wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:18:20 -0600 From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: Horse beer Jeff Renner wrote: >Or skip brewing entirely and use the horse to make American beer. The late >Chicago columnist and curmudgeon Mike Royko complained that most American >beer tasted as though it had been brewed through a horse. Jax beer from New Orleans had a picture of the statue in Jackson Square of Andy Jackson on his horse. We always said of Jax that it was the only beer in the world with the guts to print a picture of its brewery on the label. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:46:45 -0600 (CST) From: BrewInfo <brewinfo at xnet.com> Subject: Duesseldorfer Altbier Bill writes: >Alt in the Family > >8 Lbs Pilsner Malt >4 Oz Vienna >1 Oz Chocolate >1 Oz Black Patent >7 Oz Munich >2 Oz Saaz Hops >1 Oz Hallertauer >Wyeast California Lager > > >Mash in with 1.5 gal 120F water for 30 Min. Add water chemicals to mash in >water. >Raise to 145F for 20 min by adding 1 Gal Boiling water. >Raise to 155F for 20 min by adding 0.5 Gal Boiling water. >Sparge with 175F water to collect 7 Gal. >Boil for 90 min. >With 45 min left, add 1 Oz Hallertauer. >With 10 min left, add 1 Oz Saaz. >At end of Boil, add 1 Oz Saaz >Transfer 6 Gal to primary. >Pitch yeast and ferment at 55F for 2 weeks. >Lager at ambient 35F for 1 week. >Bottle with 1 3/4 cup wheat DME. I just wanted to point out that this looks very much like a "Northern German" or "Dortmunder Altbier," as opposed to a "Duesseldorfer Altbier." I think it's important to make the distinction, because the difference is striking! The biggest difference is that the main malt in a Duesseldorfer Altbier is traditionally Munich malt. If I did decoction mashing, I would use 100% dark Munich malt... about 8.5 pounds for 5 gallons. Secondly, the bittering is much higher in a Duesseldorfer Altbier. I used 3 ounces of Spalt (the traditional hop for this style) all for the entire 90-minute boil. No flavour or aroma hops... the high hop rate will cause some flavour and even a touch of aroma to spill over from the bittering addition. Since I infusion mash, I use around 8 pounds of dark Munich and 1/2 to 3/4 pound of Aromatic or Melanoidinmalt. Last time I believe I just did a single step infusion at 155F. Just to make the picture complete, I ferment at around 60F with a big starter of Wyeast #1338 European Ale and I got 78% apparent attenuation in about two weeks (using oxygen for oxygenation) for a beer that was hauntingly similar to Zum Uerige. I'm sure you are all are tired of my zealous rantings about Duesseldorfer Altbier, but once you visit Duesseldorf, you will see why I'm so passionate about this great style and why I always comment when someone suggests a Pils-based Alt with roasted malts for colour. Altbier uber alles! Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at brewinfo.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:19:20 -0600 From: Dean Fikar <dfikar at flash.net> Subject: Re. Barleywine stuck at 1.038 I've made 4 batches of barleywine - 3 with the Wyeast London Ale strain and yes it is a little temperamental at higher alcohol levels. The first barleywine I made had an OG of 1.109 and an FG of 1.038. My mistake, in retrospect, was racking at 7 days. The beer turned out fine - good enough to win a ribbon at last year's Bluebonnet Brew-Off. So, all is not lost if you get a slightly high FG with a barleywine. The other 2 batches were left in the primary for 18 days each at 65 degrees and each got down into the 1.026-7 range from OG's of about 1.103. BTW, neither shows signs of autolysis from the long primary as far as I can tell. My last batch, brewed three weeks ago, was based on Jethro's classic Big12 Barleywine recipe. I used Nottingham dry yeast and the SG was 1.024 at racking (14 days in primary) from an OG of 1.106. The Nottingham seems more alcohol tolerant and attenuates so well that I plan to use it again for subsequent barleywines assuming my batch ultimately turns out as well as I think it will. Dean Fikar - Ft. Worth, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:48:09 -0800 From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Miscellaneous Beer Thoughts Regarding autolysis, I've had it occur once, when I left a Scotch ale in the primary during a long summer vacation. It can happen, and tastes really gross. But I do think many homebrewers are paranoid enough that they rack fermenting beer too soon more often than too late. Regarding kegs, does anyone know of a good source of pin-lock kegs? My local supplier, East Coast Homebrew, is excellent in many respects --- certainly some of the best brewing advice on the planet --- but they seem to be out of kegs. Regarding millenium beer, I'm making a homebrewed version of Samichlaus to lament its passing. I'm going to freeze-concentrate this lager in the style of an ice Bock, and it started at 105 gravity. It will probably require a very long cold lagering, and the hops were so strong that it was minimally drinkable when I racked it last night after three weeks in the primary. Who knows, it might be ready by 2001. Regarding horse blankets, if my Brooklyn neighbors are serious about this prize, I'll enter some 1995 lambic in the Best of Brooklyn. :) My wife loves lambic and horses, even though she thinks that they smell differently. Finally, I'm wondering which of the following recipes the pundits will deem a more appropriate Maibock: Ingredients for 4.5 gallons 9 Lbs DWC Pils, 3.5 Lbs Munich, Single Decoction 1 Oz Tetnang, 1/2 Oz Saaz boil 1/6 Oz East Kent Goldings, 1/6 Oz Saaz, 1/6 Oz Hallertauer (three times at 25 minutes, 15 minutes, 5 minutes) 3 hour boil, OG 76, Bavarian Lager Yeast Ingredients for 5 gallons 12 Lbs. DWC Pils, 1 Lb. Munich, 1 Lb. Aroma, Single Decoction 1/2 Oz Tetnang, 1/2 Oz Hallertauer, 1/2 Oz Saaz, 1/2 Oz Styrian Goldings Boil 1/2 Oz Styrian Goldings, 1/6 Oz. Saaz, 1/6 Oz. Tetnang, & 1/6 oz. Hallertauer 30 minutes 1/3 Oz Styrian Goldings, 1/3 Oz. Saaz, 1/3 Oz. Tetnang, 10 minutes 5 hour boil, OG 71, Bavarian Lager Yeast Whole hops were used in both recipes rather than pellets. This is one of my favorite styles, and I want to learn to make a really good one. Comments, anyone? Ted McIrvine McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:36:15 -0600 From: steve at globaldialog.com Subject: 13th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition The Madison Homebrewers & Tasters Guild is proud to sponsor the 13th Annual Big & Huge Homebrew Competition. Homemade beers will be evaluated by the trained palates of experienced beer judges. Beer evaluation sheets will be returned to every entrant with helpful comments and advice. Awards will be granted in five categories of big and huge flavored beers. The Best of Show beer will receive the coveted Wooly Mammoth plaque. Come to the competition to participate in the homebrew exchange and meet other brewers and beer lovers. The competition is sanctioned by the Beer Judge Certification Program and will follow its competition procedures. Each beer will be evaluated based on its big and huge flavors as well as characteristics of the BJCP style proposed by the brewer. Please contact us if you are interested in judging or stewarding. When: Sunday, March 28, 1999 12:00 pm (Drop off of preregistered entries) 1:00 pm (Judging begins) Where: Wonders Pub, 1980 Atwood Avenue, Madison, Wisconsin For more information see http://www.gdinet.com/madbrewers/bignhuge.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:14:46 -0500 From: Randy Shreve <rashreve at interpath.com> Subject: Challenge! Scientific Measurement for Autolysis Digest members: All this talk about autolysis, and unless I've missed it, I haven't seen one person post any scientific data to back up their assumptions. How do you guys know that the off flavors you have attributed to autolysis are legitimately coming from there? Why is it that some seem to feel that beer in a fermenter deteriorates due to yeast rot in just a few weeks, while bottle conditioned beer sitting on a relatively large yeast cake seems to do OK for several months? I have no particular position on this issue, but one thing is for sure - it doesn't make sense!! Could there be one of Jack's "Momilies" in here somewhere? The CHALLENGE Would one of our brewing scientists please step forward? I, for one, would like to see some scientific experimentation done with some hard data to either prove or refute the REAL effects of autolysis as it relates to the homebrewer. I'm not a brewing chemist, but I would suggest the following experiment, assuming that there is a chemical analysis available to measure the effects of yeast autolysis: Brew a batch of beer and split it up into 5 one gallon jugs. Give each jug a different yeast to look at the effects on different strains. Ferment under homebrewing conditions. Take samples every week for 3-4 months and analyze them. Sounds easy to me, but then again, I don't work in a lab either. How about it....anybody out there with the necessary resources willing to tackle this for the good of the cause? Peace and Long Life Randy in Salisbury, NC Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Feb 99 17:20:08 PST From: Paul Kerchefske <fritz6 at netscape.net> Subject: White Labs vs. Wyeast I have been thinking about trying White Labs yeast, in particular the lager yeasts. Has anyone done much with them as far as comparison with Wyeast. I have noticed that their recommended fermentation temps are a little higher than Wyeast. Thanks Paul Kerchefske,West side of the pond from Jeff Renner. ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:01:08 -0600 From: "Dan Buche" <dpbuche at bigfoot.com> Subject: Real Ale or Bust My wife bought me a hand pump for Xmas so naturally I HAD to switch from bottling to draft. Now I need to know if there are any tricks to cask conditioning in a corny. Do I treat it just like a big bottle,..add priming sugar and wait? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 00:02:06 -0800 From: asmith at apollo.org (Andrew Smith) Subject: Brettanomyces I've never tried a Lambic beer, but I enjoy the smell of brettanomyces in wine. It seems to me that it would go well in dark, earthy beers. Can anyone think of non-lambic beers with brettanomyces? Has anyone tried using it in any of their brews, lambic-style or otherwise? How controllable is it? I spoke to a professional winemaker about this, and while he greatly enjoys brettanomyces in 20-year old Bordeaux, he is very scared of it getting into his wine. "Barnyard" and even "dung" is his favourite description of it. Andrew Smith Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:49:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Arnold J. Neitzke" <neitzkea at frc.com> Subject: Re: Precipitating Bicarbonates On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Gordon Strong wrote: > I've been reading up on water treatment and several sources suggest > boiling water with a lot of temporary hardness to precipitate > bicarbonates and lower pH. They generally say boil, aerate, decant but > not much more. I've got some questions on the technique: how long > should you let it boil? when do you aerate: when it's hot or cool? is The book I have from Dave Miller says to aerate *as* your filling the boiler. I have always done it this way and have gotten lots of precipitate, with one exception. That one exception I thought that I could add lactic acid be for the boil, that was a big mistake, no precipitate of any kind. I have noted one thing in all of the times that it has worked for me, the precipitate does not show up until the temperature is around 170F. Time of boil? about 10 minutes is enough for me. _________________________________________________________ Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com Brighton, Mi CEO of the NightSky brewing Company - --------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:52:28 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> Subject: A new momily? In HBD #2951 (February 11, 1999), Al Korzonas was discussing how yeast contributes that unique character to many Belgian beers, and how the Belgians appear over time to have selected yeasts that produce a high level of esters and higher alcohols. Then he writes: >>> A word of warning to those who haven't yet partaken in Belgian beers: I believe and theorise that if you are not used to higher alcohols, you will get a raging hangover (due to the higher alcohols) from even moderate consumption of some of these rather strong and very aromatic beers. <<< This is something I've wondered about for a very long time. Virtually every brewing book I've read spells out the "law" that higher (fusel) alcohols lead to killer hangovers. That rule is repeated often on this and other online forums I participate in. However, I have long harbored doubts that the correlation between higher alcohols and high-grade hangovers is as it is made out to be. I've gotten pretty looped from lengthy Belgian beer sessions in my day, and not once have I awoke the next morning feeling any different than had I chosen another beer or alcoholic beverage the night before. I certainly haven't experienced the raging headaches and generally misery that higher alcohols supposedly lead to. Now, I'm only one datapoint, and one datapoint is only marginally better than none. Plus, I may not be a very good guinea pig in this case, since I simply do not get hangovers, except from excess champagne consumption. I'd be curious what other people's experiences are. Is the higher alcohol=big hangover rule a momily, or am I just lucky? -Steve in Indianapolis _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:21:00 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> Subject: Yeast's affect on head retention All the recent discussion about autolosys, and discussion a few weeks back (or is it even months now) about head retention and such has gotten me to thinking. I have a fairly good grasp of what wort constituents help form and maintain a good head on beer: in simple terms (and the ones pertinent to the case I'll present in a moment), MMW proteins are the major component of a good head, and high hopping levels can also help contribute to better head formation and retention. In recent months I've brewed three beers with essentially the same sorts of grain bills and hopping levels. Two have had excellent heads that from all appearances last so long that they would join cockroaches as the only survivors of a nuclear holocaust. The third beer has a had that acts like a frightened turtle: the head makes a brief appearance and then disappears back into its shell. Now, some details about the beers. Two of the beers were alts. Both used grain bills consisting entirely of Durst Munich malt with a touch of DWC aromatic malt. Both were single-infusion mashed at about 154 or 155 (don't have my notes handy to look up the exact temp.) Both were hopped to about 40-45 IBU, the first using Hallertauer Hersbrucker hops, the second using Spalt Spalter hops. The third beer was a bit of an experiment to see how it would taste to have an alt-like grain bill but with American hops and late hopping additions. In other words, a pale ale with a Munich-based grain bill. This beer was a 50-50 split between Durst Munich and M&F pale ale malt, mashed at about 152. The beer was hopped to about 45 IBU using Chinook hops for bittering and Centennial for flavor and aroma. (It ended up being a good beer, by the way). The only other variations were yeast: One alt used Wyeast 1007 (German ale), the other used 1338 (European ale). The experimental pale ale used 1272 (Amer. ale II). The 1007 and 1272 beers have great long-lasting heads. The 1338 beer has a head that sticks around for all of three or four minutes. Given that the usual variables critical to head formation (grain bill, mash, hopping levels) were roughly equal, the only conclusion I can come up with is that the yeast somehow has an affect on head retention as well. The only other thing I can come up with is that the 1338 beer sat in primary for about 2.5 to 3 weeks and in secondary for a couple months, while the other beers were bottled fairly young. Long story into short question: Does yeast have an affect on head retention? -Steve in Indianapolis _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
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