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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Malt prices ("2645 RUTH, GUY R.")
  Is homebrew a bargain? (Mike Fertsch)
  San Jose Beer Supplies (was Beer Makers of America) (Brian Atkins)
  Re: Mackeson's (iwtio!korz)
  Netter Notoriety (Greg Wageman)
  Yeast and Grain Source (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
  Water quality? (boubez)
  Halloween Beer (Barry Cunningham)
  M&F Malt Color (Ken Ellinwood)
  Anchor Christmas Ale (Ken Ellinwood)
  Faculty sponsor needed in Boston (Chuck Cox)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date: 8 Nov 89 08:45:00 MDT
From: "2645 RUTH, GUY R." <grruth at sandia.gov>
Subject: Malt prices

I'm an all grain brewer and a club member so I am always interested in finding
the most inexpensive prices on malt.  I even built a master price list which
contains prices on the main brewing ingredients (malt, hops, yeast) from ten
different vendors.  Of the vendors I have sampled, I have found 3 places which
appear to be the cheapest around:

Great Western Malting   10# for $0.70/lb
P. O. Box 469           20# for $0.66/lb
Corning, CA  96021      40# for $0.60/lb

Stew's Brew             32# to 256# for $0.55 to $0.47/lb
Rt 4 Box 243
River Falls, WI  54022

Santa Fe Brewery
Galisteo, NM            80# for $0.55/lb (price quoted to the brewing club I
                                          belong to)

The prices for all three vendors do not reflect shipping charges.

-- Guy

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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 09:31 EST
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Is homebrew a bargain?

Ed Falk has some comments on the cost of homebrewing -

> Anyway, we're coming to the conclusion that this hobby
> isn't as inexpensive as we thought it would be.  The wine concentrate
> was $12 (to make two gallons of wine) and malt extract is over a dollar
> a pound.

Gee, I wish I could get malt extract for 'over a dollar a pound'.  My local
retailer lists dried malt for $2.75 per pound, and 3.3 pound syrups for $7.85.
By making large orders, I still pay over two dollars a pound for extract. 
Even so, I make quality all-malt beers for around $10 a case. This is high
compared to the cheap national brands, but is cheap compared to the $20 a case
I pay for quality premium beers. 

My recollection is that syrup USED to sell for around $4.95 a can.  The
worsening foreign exchange rate has pushed imported extracts through the roof!
I agree with Ed; homebrewing is not the bargain we hoped it would be. 

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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 10:00:15 pst
From: Brian Atkins <atkins at hpindqa>
Subject: San Jose Beer Supplies (was Beer Makers of America)
Full-Name: Brian Atkins

The Fermentation Settlement is just off De Anza at the back of a little
shopping center at the corner of De Anza and Kentwood.

In general, when I know what I want I go to Beer Makers of America (being
careful to check freshness, etc.) and talk to the owner as little as possible,
because they are cheaper (in come cases, a LOT cheaper).  When I need 
information or special items or want to have a better feeling as to the 
freshness/quality of what I am getting, I go to The Fermentation Settlement.

Some of my more brew happy friends get bulk supplies from William's
Brewing Supplies, a mail order house in San Leandro.  Service is prompt 
and, because they are close, you don't have to worry too much about 
mishandling of things like hops.

Both BMofA and The Fermentation Settlement are in the San Jose yellow
pages under Beer Making Supplies, and I got a William's catalog by call 
them directly (via 415 information).

Cheers,

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Brian Atkins            atkins at hpindqa.HP.COM       (408) 447-2057
Information Networks Division   -   43LS
Hewlett Packard         19420 Homestead Road, Cupertino, CA  95014

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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 11:58:33 mst
From: att!iwtio!korz at hplabs.HP.COM
Subject: Re: Mackeson's

>	I brought the wort to a boil (water & syrup to make about 3 gallons),
>	then added the crystal. I boiled for about 10 minutes, then added the
>	hops. Boiled for about 5 minutes, turned the heat off & added the
>	chocolate & black patent in a grain bag and let it steep for about 10
>	minutes. I then sparged the grain bag with ~2 gallons of boiling
>	water. Finally, I added the lactose.

I have a comment and a suggestion regarding this proceedure. 1) I've noticed
a big difference between boiling and steeping crystal malt. When I used
to boil it, I tasted an annoying astringency.  I've never tried Mackeson's
(but I'll make it a point to now) so I don't know if the associated
astringency may even be necessary for authenticity.  2) I would suggest
steeping the grains (crushing, even powdering, the black patent as you
suggest) before adding the malt syrup and dry extract, because, I believe
(and please correct me if I'm wrong) that you could get better utilization
of the crystal malt in a low gravity liquid (i.e. hot water) than in a
high gravity liquid (i.e. hot wort).  I'm open to being convinced that
this is not true, so chime-in everyone.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 12:18:12 PST
From: greg at sj.ate.slb.com (Greg Wageman)
Subject: Netter Notoriety
Full-Name: Greg Wageman

In the mail the other day, I received a special edition of Zymurgy, which is
devoted entirely to yeast!  I haven't read it all yet, but there is some
eye-opening information in there, particularly the tables comparing the
qualities of various commercial yeasts.  They did objective comparisons (e.g.
viability, contaminants) as well as subjective ones (e.g. flavor components). 
I highly recommend everyone get a look at a copy. 

I was also pleasantly surprised and pleased to see an article in there by none
other than Darryl Richmond, complete with a picture and a short bio in the
"Authors" section.  One "Attaboy" to Darryl! 

Well, back into my hole for now... (I do wish it would stop shaking.)

Greg Wageman			DOMAIN: greg at sj.ate.slb.com
Schlumberger Technologies	UUCP:   {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!greg
San Jose, CA 95110-1397		BIX: gwage  CIS: 74016,352  GEnie: G.WAGEMAN

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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 13:40:20 MST
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Subject: Yeast and Grain Source

> Does anybody have a good source of mail order liquid yeast cultures?
> I have been going to Meyers Cider Mill here in Rochester but often they
> are out of the particular type of yeast I want.  Is there a problem of
> the yeast dying in the mail?
> 
> One more question.  I usually pay around $1.19 per pound for malted barley.
> I've checked some mail order catalogs but by the time you add shipping the
> cost have gone quite high.  Does $1.19 sound reasonable?  

Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa, CA sells liquid yeasts for about
$3.50 a shot. I spoke with the people at Great Fermentations about
shipping, and decided to wait until the weather was cool before I had
them send me any. Their American Klages malted barley (6 row, I
assume) is $0.79 a pound, and for 10 cents per pound extra they will
will crack it for you. They also carry British pale malted barley for
around $1.20 per pound. GF's number is 1-800-544-1867.

--Doug

================================================================
Douglas Roberts                |
Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything
Box 1663, MS F-602             |  except temptation.
Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545   |  ...
(505)667-4569                  |Oscar Wilde
dzzr at lanl.gov                  |
================================================================

Date: Wed,  8 Nov 89 17:22:52 EST
From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
Subject: Water quality?

Hi there! Okay, here it is. I'm going to brew MY FIRST BATCH! In spite of
reading everything I could get my hands on ("don't worry, relax, etc.."), my
girlfriend (a toxicologist no less, it figures :-)) who doesn't touch tap
water, raised a good point. Should I use tap water for brewing, or should I
buy bottled water? Bottled water is not that expensive in 2.5 gal containers
(~$2/2.5 gal), but I would like some comments from the more experienced
people. BTW, I live in New Jersey, and I'm not too sure about the quality of
the drinking water (I'll call my water company tomorrow for an analysis). Am I
making too much of this? 
Thanks.

toufic

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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 10:13:33 EST
From: abvax!calvin.icd.ab.com!bwc at cwjcc.INS.CWRU.Edu (Barry Cunningham)
Subject: Halloween Beer

        I just started up a batch  of  beer  recently  in  honor  of
        Halloween.   I'm  not  sure  what  to call it.  Maybe 'Great
        Pumpkin Bitter'.  The inspiration for it was an  article  on
        vegatable brews in Zymurgy dating from early last year and a
        superabundance of Cooper's Bitter kits which I obtained  for
        $1.99 per can.  It is probably my most adventurous recipe to
        date (save for some Honey Botchard from Berry's  book  which
        is better forgotten)

        The recipe follows:

                            GREAT PUMPKIN BITTER

         1 can        Cooper's Bitter hopped malt syrup
         1.5#         Munton and Fison dry malt extract
         0.25#        black patent malt (lightly crushed)
         1 cup        Brer Rabbit molasses
         0.5 oz       Tettnanger hop pellets (30 minute boil)
         0.5 oz       Tettnanger hop pellets (at end  of  boil  for
                      finishing)
         2 3"         cinnamon sticks (10 minute boil)
         2-3 oz       fresh grated ginger  (boiled  with  wort  for
                      full 60 minutes)

        Prepare all these ingredients in the usual  fashion:   steep
        the  BP  malt,  remove,  add  extracts,  etc.  as indicated,
        boiling the wort for 60 minutes.  In addition prepare

         10#          pumpkin  mush  (pumkin  flesh  minus   seeds,
                      stringy  stuff,  and skin mushed in a blender
                      or food grinder)
         0.5 cup      chopped cilantro mushed up with pumpkin
         1-2 oz       fresh grated ginger blended with pumpkin mush

        Place the pumpkin mush in a large grain bag and  immerse  in
        hot  wort  as it comes off the stove for about 15 minutes to
        pasturize it.  Place the  whole  mess  in  a  large  plastic
        primary  fermenter,  make  up to about 6.5 gallons total and
        add

         2 packs      rehydrated Pasteur Champagne yeast

        when temperature is suitable.  It is destined to  remain  in
        the  primary  for  a  week.   Then  the pumpkin mush will be
        removed and the remaining liquid put in a  5  gallon  carboy
        for a secondary fermentation.  It will be racked after three
        weeks into  another  carboy  and  bottled  after  another  2
        months.

        I just did the move into the 5  gallon  carboy  last  Monday
        night.   It  is  quite  aromatic.   I  think I'll wait until
        around Christmas to sample  it  so  that  I  don't  get  too
        depressed.   The  intent  was  that  it  would be an unusual
        sipping brew for NEXT Halloween.  It is definitely  not  for
        consuming in large quantity.  I'll keep you posted about how
        it turns out.

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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 18:01:05 PST
From: aimla!serpentine!ken at suntzu.West.Sun.COM (Ken Ellinwood)
Subject: M&F Malt Color

Has anyone else noticed that Munton & Fison light malt extract in a can
is darker than M&F light dry malt extract?  I recently brewed a version
of my roomates "Scotish Steamy Ale" and it came out much darker than the
original.   His original recipe is:

		6 lbs M&F light dry extract
		1 lb  Scotich Crystal malt (40 lovibond ????)
		1 oz Northern Brewers (leaf, 55 min)
		0.5 oz Northern Brewers (leaf, 5 min)
		5 gals of untreated Arrowhead bottled water
		Brewer's Choice American Ale yeast
		
When I brewed it, I modified the recipe based on the assumption that 
the crystal malt I had on hand was much darker.  I added only 1/2 lb
of crystal malt because I was convinced that it was in the 90 lovibond
range.  I also used 6.6lbs of M&F malt extract out of cans.  The
resulting beer is about 1/3 as dark as the original.  Anyone concur?

Ken Ellinwood
American Interactive Media
11050 Santa Monica Blvd. #300
Los Angeles, CA 90025
(213) 444-6554
!sun!suntzu!aimla!ken

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Date: Tue, 7 Nov 89 18:21:51 PST
From: aimla!serpentine!ken at suntzu.West.Sun.COM (Ken Ellinwood)
Subject: Anchor Christmas Ale

I finally took the opportunity to spend a weekday in San Fransisco, and since
the Anchor Brewery only offers its tour during the week, I obliged myself and
took it.   The tour was interesting and informative and the tour guide (Mark)
gladly answered questions regarding recipes (with the exception of ingredient
ratios).  We were told, for example, that Liberty Ale is made with only one
type of hops.  It is bittered, finished and dry hopped with Cascade hops.  The
label glue is an amonia based glue obtained from a company across the bay in
Oakland.  Anyway, the point is that the information (and beer in the tasting
room) flowed freely.  This generosity ended when the words "Anchor Christmas
Ale" were uttered.  Not a word about the recipe was mentioned.  And even
though the Christmas ale was in production at the Brewery, is was not on tap
in the tasting room.  We were told that distributers who released the ale
before Thanksgiving would be cut off from thier supply.  Our best efforts to
learn the ingredients or to taste it were quickly thwarted by the staff.   The
question now remains:  How did Doug Roberts, in New Mexico of all places, get
his hands on a bottle?  I suppose that if we had been really, really sneaky,
we could have lifted a bottle or two out of the factory second boxes that were
sitting on the floor in the bottling room.  But then it would have been a
question of where to put the bottles while we tried to make it out of the
brewery alive, since no one in our group was carrying a purse.  So Doug, how
did you manage to get a bottle of Anchor's 1989 Christmas Ale? 

The brewery tour is not a thing to be missed.  Tours are at 1:00 during the
week and advanced reservations are required. 

- Ken -

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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 11:49:46 EST
From: chuck%bose at uunet.UU.NET (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Faculty sponsor needed in Boston

Academic Homebrewers -

The American Homebrewer's Association needs your help.

Boston could be the site for the 1991 AHA National Homebrewer's Conference.
The AHA is considering using a college campus in order to keep costs
reasonable.
We may be able to hold the conference at MIT, but we need
a faculty sponsor.

In addition to MIT, the following campuses are also being considered:

	Boston University
	Northeastern
	Boston College

(unfortunately, Harvard doesn't have large enough facilities)

If you, or anyone you know is willing to consider being a sponsor,
please contact me.

Chuck Cox - certified national beer judge

...!uunet!bose!chuck
617-547-7668

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #299, 11/09/89

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