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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  cheap grain source, Zymury yeast issue (BROWN)
  Re: Water quality? (Martin D. Weinberg)
  Is homebrew a bargain? (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
  Anchor Christmas Ale (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
  re: A question of infections (Chris Shenton)
  How much is enough?? (jamesb)
  Re: Water quality? (iwtio!korz)
  #298, Geordie Bitters Woes (florianb)
  Kegging ("2645 RUTH, GUY R.")
  Re: Is homebrew a bargain? (kipps)
  Brewpubs in Toronto (Martin D. Weinberg)
  Back Issues Wanted ("MR. DAVID HABERMAN")


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Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date:     Thu, 9 Nov 89 08:57 EST
From: <BROWN%MSUKBS.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:  cheap grain source, Zymury yeast issue

Another cheap source for grain arrived in the mail yesterday: Green Acres in
Esko MN.  I don't have the address on me, but I think they advertise in the
Classified section of Zymurgy.  I'll post the address tomorrow.  They sell
most grains in #50 bags for $27-33 ($0.54-0.66) plus shipping.  Wow -- 2-row
Klages for $28/#50!  They also sell bulk malt extract fairly cheaply.  (I've
never use this supplier, but they're from Minnesota, so they MUST be
wholesome and honest).

So, how do people get away with selling malt for 1.50/lb, as I've
occasionally seen?  Let's imagine they
are getting it for $20/#50.  Selling it at $1.50/lb is a 360% markup.
Somebody's getting ripped off here.  While I understand why homebrew shops
(storefronts) need to mark-up more than mail-orders (and I've supported them
when they are within 30 miles and don't try to sell me brown, cheesy hops),
this kind of pricing inevitably drives all-grain mashers like myself into the
arms of mail-order houses and my friendly local brewer for the main
ingredients of my beer.

With regards to the Zymurgy special yeast issue:

> In the mail the other day, I received a special edition of Zymurgy,
> which is devoted entirely to yeast!  I haven't read it all yet, but
> there is some eye-opening information in there, particularly the tables
> comparing the qualities of various commercial yeasts.

I agree -- lot's of late night reading and learning.  The review of the dry
yeasts and descriptions of various liquid strains' characters was great.  Also
interesting was the article by the guy who uses blocks of Fleischmann's for
lagering.  Has anyone tried this yet (seems hard to believe)?

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 9 Nov 89 09:54:46 EST
From: weinberg at duvel.ias.edu (Martin D. Weinberg)
Subject: Re: Water quality?

I have been brewing in Princeton, NJ for several years; all brews from local
water (otherwise unpurified) had unpleasant defects.  I will not use Princeton
water under any circumstances.  Now, I got a water analysis from the water
company (samples taken at the plant) and there was nothing amis (judging from
the discus- sion in Noonan's book); maybe its "in the pipes".  But anyway,
unless you want to reverse osmosis and then carbon filter, I'd buy the bottled
(and even then . . .) 

The water sold by many of the local supermarkets (e.g. SuperFresh) is bottled
by Wissahickon in PA.  I wrote them for an analysis just to get the mineral
contents right, so I knew how to adjust for brewing a Pale. 

By the way, after seeing what it did to my beer, I won't *drink* the tap water
either. 

P.S.  I usually do grain/extract brewing, and boil a large fraction of the
wort and then boil the rest of the brewing water for 20 mins. So the bad
results from local water were not caused by bacteria in the water supply (I
think). 

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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 89 08:54:47 MST
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Subject: Is homebrew a bargain?

The last batch I made, an all-grain Porter supposedly very much like Anchor
Steam's Porter, cost me $14.26 for the five gallon batch, or about $1.68
per six-pack. Compare that with about $5.00 per six for the Anchor variety.

--Doug

================================================================
Douglas Roberts                |
Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything
Box 1663, MS F-602             |  except temptation.
Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545   |  ...
(505)667-4569                  |Oscar Wilde
dzzr at lanl.gov                  |
================================================================

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 89 09:04:47 MST
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Subject: Anchor Christmas Ale

> We were told that distributers who released the ale before Thanksgiving
> would be cut off from thier supply.  Our best efforts to learn the
> ingredients or to taste it were quickly thwarted by the staff.   The
> question now remains:  How did Doug Roberts, in New Mexico of all 
> places, get his hands on a bottle?  I suppose that if we had been 
> really, really sneaky, we could have lifted a bottle or two out of 
> the factory second boxes that were sitting on the floor in the 
> bottling room.  But then it would have been a question of where to 
> put the bottles while we tried to make it out of the brewery alive, 
> since no one in our group was carrying a purse.  So Doug, how did
> you manage to get a bottle of Anchor's 1989 Christmas Ale?

Most interesting! Another note to the mystery: The label on the bottle that I
had stated "Christmas Ale, 1986". Now This certainly wasn't three year old ale
that I was drinking: it was fresh and delicious! The friend who brought the
beer over to my house (three weeks ago) purchased it at a local liquor store
here in Los Alamos, a place not widely known for it's diversity of consumer
goods. 

--Doug

================================================================
Douglas Roberts                |
Los Alamos National Laboratory |I can resist anything
Box 1663, MS F-602             |  except temptation.
Los Alamos, New Mexico 87545   |  ...
(505)667-4569                  |Oscar Wilde
dzzr at lanl.gov                  |
================================================================

Date: Wed, 8 Nov 89 17:58:00 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: re: A question of infections

"Lance "Turbo" Smith" writes:
> My bottles had a 30 minute soak in H20/Cl solution (about three tablespoons
> in 4 gallons) with a hot water rinse and drip dry. The bottle caps
> weren't boiled because the inner ceils boiled off the first ones I tried.
> (Some sort of damned lotto contest.)

I've never bothered to boil my caps, but instead soak them too in the bleach
solution. Have had no problems, and it sounds much simpler... 

Why is this never mentioned in the books? Any suggestions? (or have I just been
lucky? :-)

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu Nov  9 08:57:31 1989
From: microsoft!jamesb at uunet.uu.net
Subject: How much is enough??

On the subject of all grain brewing.
How much is enough?
If a recipe calls for 6# of extract and I don't want to use extract, how many
# of grain do I start with? 

Tonight is the night !!
We are going to start our very first batch. Wish us luck!
Thanx
Jim

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 9 Nov 89 10:34:39 mst
From: att!iwtio!korz at hplabs.HP.COM
Subject: Re: Water quality?

>people. BTW, I live in New Jersey, and I'm not too sure about the
>quality of the drinking water (I'll call my water company tomorrow
>for an analysis). Am I making too much of this?
>Thanks.
>
>toufic

No, I don't feel that you are making too much of this.  Beer is 95% water and
as we all know, "Garbage in, garbage out."  The water company analysis will
let you know if your water is too soft or hard and if you can doctor it for
the particular style of beer you plan to make (ales are traditionally made
from hard water - because that's what they had, and lagers form soft water -
because that's what they had). 

On the other hand, however, I used to buy distilled bottled water and then add
Burton Water Salts to get the hardness right.  However, the tap water here in
the Chicago area is (I've been told, very neutral - flavorless and not too
soft or hard) so I've switched to boiled, chilled tap water and have had no
ill effects.  The general rule is: if it tastes good before it's made into
beer, chances are it will not give your beer off-flavors. 

Al.

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Date: 09 Nov 89 08:45:41 PST (Thu)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: #298, Geordie Bitters Woes

In # 298, Lance "Turbo" Smith questions the goodness of his batch of Geordie
Scottish Ale.  A similar thing happened to me last summer.  I had a great
looking batch of Geordie in the carboy glubbing away when my wife talked me
into ripping up the kitchen for a remodelling job.  Two months later, I dusted
the sawdust off the carboy, racked it into the big fermenter, mixed in a cup
of corn sugar, and bottled it.  It required many days for carbonation to start
again (probably due to dormant yeast), and after carbonation, the brews tasted
sour, dry, and lifeless.  I didn't however have a bodacious amount of carbona-
tion as did Lance's batch.  I had used dry yeast at the time, but can't recall
which one.  After that experience, I decided that remodelling kitchens is bad
for beer brewing and promised never to interrupt brewing for home repair again.

[Florian Bell--waiting for the Thanksgiving ales in Central Oregon]

Return to table of contents


Date: 9 Nov 89 13:58:00 MDT
From: "2645 RUTH, GUY R." <grruth at sandia.gov>
Subject: Kegging

I have just started kegging my beer using 5 gallon syrup canisters.  Does anyone
know of an inexpensive source of new and/or used kegs?  I recently received a
catalog from Braukunst which seems to have pretty decent prices as well as a
wide variety of kegging related merchandise, but I was wondering if anyone has
had any luck getting kegs from a local soft drink bottler/supplier.

Guy

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 09 Nov 89 12:20:19 -0800
From: kipps at etoile.ICS.UCI.EDU
Subject: Re: Is homebrew a bargain?

What's this talk about bargains???

How much is you're time worth, anyway?  If you consider that it takes at
least 3 to 4 hours to brew from extract, your best bargain is to get a
weekend job and use the extra income to buy good comercial beer.

If what you want is to save money on ingredients, then brew all-grain, but
that cost you a couple extra hours.  If you don't care about quality, then
dry yeast is a fraction of liquid and table sugar is less than 40 cents a
pound.

I don't homebrew to save money.  I homebrew for the satisfaction of
making great beer.

-Jim Kipps

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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 89 19:55:40 EST
From: weinberg at duvel.ias.edu (Martin D. Weinberg)
Subject: Brewpubs in Toronto

Does anyone out there know where to drink beer in Toronto?
I am visiting for a week and would like to sample the local wares.

--Martin Weinberg
  weinberg at guinness.ias.edu

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Date: 9 Nov 89 10:32:00 PDT
From: "MR. DAVID HABERMAN" <habermand at afal-edwards.af.mil>
Subject: Back Issues Wanted

I would like someone who has the back issues of the Homebrew Digest saved to 
please send me #'s 294 and 295.  I only received a partial copy of 294.  I 
have contacted a few other folks who have the same problem.  Thanks.

David

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #300, 11/10/89

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