HOMEBREW Digest #2997 Tue 06 April 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Some diabetes/beer meanderings ("Dr. Pivo")
  Sundries (AJ)
  re: Green Acres (Lou.Heavner)
  Corrections to the Diabetes Post (Ian Forbes)
  newbie questions ("Russ Hobaugh")
  Spirit of Free Beer (Anderson Andy W NSSC)
  Decline of home brewing (John Adsit)
  Beer Judging - Style Guidelines ("Boscos Nshville Brewing Co.")
  Murphy's Stout ("Bridges, Scott")
  Beer Joke (Paul Haaf)
  Big Brew / Diacetyl (John Varady)
  Broken Thermometer (Dan Listermann)
  Re: Aluminum pots (Tidmarsh Major)
  RE: how do you chill and transfer from boil to fermenter? (Jeremy B. Pugh)
  beer and diabetics (Scott Abene)
  Re: Murphy's stout ("Nix, Andrew")
  Refractometers (Marc Sedam)
  CHEAP pH Meter ? (Bob.Sutton)
  Refractometers, sweet stout,butter (Dave Burley)
  Chiller, Hot and Cold Break questions ("J. Doug Brown")
  Hop Shoots ("Sieben, Richard")
  Sam Adams Summer Ale Clone (Chuck Cubbler)
  A Newbie Brewer Question . . . ("Brett A. Spivy")

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Enter the Spirit of Free Beer! Competition 5/22/99. Details at http://burp.org/SoFB99. 2000 MCAB Qualifier! Enter the Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99. Details on the HBD Competition Calendar for June 1999 (http://hbd.org). 2000 MCAB qualifier! Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:35:16 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se> Subject: Some diabetes/beer meanderings I usually like Steve Alexanders postings, even if not always directly relevant, he likes to play in the world of biochemistry in his head. I think it's kind of fun, too. Three big boo-boos though: > glucogenic pathways > can convert proteins and fats(the big energy store) into glucose. You might be able to convert fats to glucose on paper, Steve, but the human body can't do it... That's what keto-acidosis is all about, and why the brain gets starved in hypoglycemia. Otherwise Steve described the process pretty well. 2 VERY important points are missed though. #1 What is a dextrin limit for a human? We basically have the same enzymatic engineering for starch reduction as yeast. Our first amylase meets with starch in your spit and starts wacking off the 1,4 bonds. The mucosa of the stomach has a 1,6 Glucosidase that is analogous to the other "mashing" enzyme. Farther in the gut are other surprises. The question is, what is the difference in affinity between what my buddy the yeast has got and what I've got. How many of these dextrins are utilizable as a food source? I'm guessing not a whole lot (anybody got a calorimeter in their bathroom?) That we are not great at getting at whole varieties of saccharides, is documented by the fact that whole classes of tri-saccharides are affectionately titled "flatulence factors", since foods with large ammounts of these (say, beans) pass through our guts unmolested, until they are knocking on the door of your colon at the end of the small intestine. There a roar of "yippee!" is heard from a collection of methane producing bacteria, as they begin to dine on these untouched goodies, and we all know the sound of distant thunder that results, and the fact that it has given us such musical wonders as "Louie the Lip and the Blue Flames" (it was a great act until the drummer set his pants on fire). As Steve points out, starch is not just starch. Spuds (or "potatoes" according to my sources at Quayle College) are loaded with lots of simple 1,4 amylose strings that we merrily hack to bits, while bananas and rice are richer in 1,6 bonds (IT gets a new name "amylopectin"...cool). The question is: how much real coloric food value is there in the dextrins in beer that the yeast couldn't manage? Anybody know? I've long been curious. #2 The most important quote Steve brought up was: > "Although it is possible to visualize pathways by which ethanol could be > converted to glucose, ethanol is actually a poor gluconeogenic > precursor. In fact ethanol strongly inhibits gluconeogenesis and can > bring about hypoglycemia[low BGL], a potentially dangerous decrease in > blood glucose levels." In terms of coloric value, yep, alcohol is about half way between carbohydrates and fats.... but that is meaningless to the diabetic. Alcohol is a toxin that occupies quite a bit of your livers attention in dealing with. While you do generate some energy stores in breaking it down, you shift your NAD and FAD supplies into a metabolic corner that precludes gluoneogenesis, glucagon secretion, and glygogen cleaving. Alcohol IS diabetogenic. If I had diabetes, I'd probably be nuts enough to try this, and I don't reccomend aanyone else doing it, but if my two propositions hold (not much food value in beer dextrins, alcohol inhibits internal glucose regulation) then it probably makes no difference whether you intake alcohol as beer, or equivalent ammounts of alcohol in Vodka.... it would probably create the smae insulin demand. Alcohol is amazing stuff, and no wonder it has taken such a profound place in our culture with it's wide ranging effects, but part of getting "good and drunk" might just be a touch of hypoglycemia in the brain. Whoever thought a "sugar free diet" could be so fun? Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:55:43 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Sundries George de Piro is curious about ATC refractometers. I have one of these handheld models for determining moisture content in honey. The "ATC" feature consists of a little thermometer set into the body of the instrument calibrated +1 t0 -1%. One reads the moisture content directly in % then consults the thermometer to obtain a correction used to account for the change in refractive index of sugar with temperature. While on the subject of refractometry for alcohol determination I think it noteworthy that the ASBC procedure calls for preparation of a distillation (or other method) calibration curve for each beer, or at least each typle of beer, made by a brewery. This must be to allow for the RI influence of the residual sugars, proteins etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Amen to Dr. Pivo's comments on the suitability of diacetyl in some styles of beer. I heard professional brewers say things like "There is no place for diacetyl in a lager" to which I say "baloney". I guess its a matter of taste. Further to taste, the taste impressions of diacetyl vary according to what it is presented with and the level. At low levels (i.e. 2 -3 time threshold as in Bohemian Pils) it synergizes with the malt to give that wonderful round, nutty, caramel quality. At higher levels it develops the butterscotch-sweet characteristic which, I agree, can be unpleasant. At higher levels still I'm told it begins to taste more butyric i.e. like rancid butter but, fortunately, I have never experienced this. The honeylike quality Dr. Pivo mentions is usually associated with 2,3- pentane dione, a simlar "vicinal diketone" (diacetyl is 2,3 butane dione). Finally, the assay for diacetyl is, (for mortal souls without access to a chromatograph) nettlesome but not terribly so. A 250 ml sample of the beer is placed in a distilling flask with column and condenser and 30 ml distillate collected below the surface of a solution of hydroxylamine hydrochloride so that the diacetyl is converted to dimethylglyoxime. A CO2 atmosphere must be maintained in the apparatus during the procedure. The distillate is placed in a water bath to allow the alcohol to evaporate, the volume standardized and then a metal salt (nickle sulfate in the old days, ferrous sulfate more recently) is added which forms a color complex with the dimethyl glyoxime. The depth of color is measured with a spectrophotometer. Standardization is with dimethyl glyoxime * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dave Burley suggests that sulfites will form volatile organic compounds with aldehydes and ketones. Excellent. Sweep 'em out with CO2. You'll have to sweep out the excess SO2 anyway. Even small quantities of sulfites in beer can be tasted initially so this has to be done. In fact the metabite will have to be oxidized to sulfate in order to get rid of the sulfitic taste. Remember that I'm offering this idea for consideration at this point - no advocating it. As I can't measure diacetyl for the moment, I was limited to what I could experiment with this weekend. About all I could think of to try was to measure the ORP (oxidation - reduction potential) of beer and then add some metabite to see if the ORP dropped appreciably. It does, of course, drop but not so much as I'd hoped when I use a dose corresponding to half a Campden tablet per gallon. Note that ORP measurement in the open air is a tricky business and I really need to do some more experiments under nitrogen. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I hope that anyone who had a look at my redox equation in #2996 can figure out that the "C=O" should be in the middle of the vertical arrangement and not off all by itself. The system slipped a couple of extra spaces into the main line. - -- A. J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:43:28 -0500 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: re: Green Acres Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> writes in part: >>>>> It has been my long time goal to make beer from dirt. {snip} Can humus be too acidic? <<<<< I doubt it, but there may be something else in the soil affecting pH. Humus usually is a very good thing which helps mellow the soil. >>>>> I put lime down last year, but it was after the fact. What pH should the soil be and how does one measure it. <<<<< I'm not sure what the ideal pH is for growing hops, but most plant will tolerate a reasonable range around pH 7. The best way to find out what you have is get a soil test. Take a sample and have it tested. Most gardening magazines will give you an idea where to get it tested or ask your county agent. The testing organization often will make a recommendation for soil amendments, especially if you tell them what you want to grow. Cheers! Lou in Austin "Learning to Garden in Central Texas is like learning to scuba dive in the artic. If you can do it here, you can do it anywhere." ---- Now go have a beer... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:30:10 -0500 From: Ian_Forbes at AICI.COM (Ian Forbes) Subject: Corrections to the Diabetes Post Just a quick and appreciative "thank you" to Jeff Renner, A. J. deLange, and especially Steve Alexander for their input and corrections to my post on beer and diabetes. These guys have once again shown us the depth and scope of their knowledge. Thanks again guys, Ian Hamden, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:30:52 -0400 From: "Russ Hobaugh" <Russ_Hobaugh at erm.com> Subject: newbie questions I just tasted my second batch of beer, a special bitter. The taste, color, and aroma were GREAT. BUT, I noticed as I was conditioning, that on many of the bottles there was a film/debris stuck to the sides of the bottles. This settled to the bottom, but on opening it can get riled up in the beer. Where did this come from, and what is it. This was a extract/grain batch, boiled with 3 gallons of water. I cooled the wort in my sink with cold water, stirring occasionally. I stirred it after it was cool(I think that was a mistake), and let it ferment for 2 weeks. On bottling, added gelatin. I dissolved this in cool water and it got all gooey (mistake #2?). I was told that the gelatin would create a thick sludge on the bottom of the bottles, but this did not happen. It only seems that the bottles towards the end of the 5 gallon batch are affected. Had one of the first bottles and it was perfect. I would love to know why this happened to I can avoid it in the future. Also, anyone have a recipe that would be close to Guinness?? I am trying to get my brother involved in homebrewing, and he wants to try to make Guinness. Private emails are fine. TIA Russ Hobaugh Goob Dog Brewery Birdsboro PA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:44:15 -0400 From: Anderson Andy W NSSC <AndersonRW at NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL> Subject: Spirit of Free Beer Spirit of Free Beer contest announcement Brewers United for Real Potables (BURP) will hold the seventh annual Spirit of Free Beer (SoFB) on May 22-23, 1999. This is the largest homebrew competition in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, and SoFB is also an MCAB qualifier. Get your entries in for fantastic prizes and a chance to qualify for the MCAB. Please check out our web site at http://burp.org/SoFB99/ <http://burp.org/SoFB99/> for more information. If you have any interest in judging, please contact our Judge Coordinator, Tom Cannon, at judges at burp.org <mailto:judges at burp.org> If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me at Andy at BURP.org <mailto:Andy at BURP.org> Thanks, Andy Anderson 99 SoFB Contest Organizer Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 03:56:39 -0600 From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us> Subject: Decline of home brewing Dear Folks, I a recent BT editorial (http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue7.1/editorial.html), Stephen Mallery refers to a decline in home brewing and what can be done about it. I'd like to toss in an idea. I started brewing because my wife, with no hint from me whatsoever, bought me a kit as a present. I was polite, but I thought, "Why would I want a hobby that will force me to drink bad beer when there is so much good beer readily available in the stores?" I was genuinely surprised when I learned that I could make good beer. I was surprised because I had never tasted a single home brewed beer that I liked. Surprise is also the reaction when friends taste a beer of mine and discover it actually tastes good. They, too, have never experienced that. I just had a conversation with a friend who says she has relatives who brew, and they have only made one she can drink. (And she does like good beer.) In short, there are a lot of home brewers out there who are not making good products, and they are creating a negative image. Who are they? I don't think they are reading this or any other similar list. I don't think they are going to club meetings. I don't think they are competing. I know of a couple myself, and this is their profile: They started with kits as a lark, not really knowing how to do it. They made some batches, making the same mistakes I did on my first ones. However, whereas I then went out and sought (and, luckily, found) expert advice to correct my errors, they are going on as before, sucking on their syphon hoses, making silly hopping decisions, etc. I think the problem is that help is often not readily available for people like that, and if it isn't readily available, they aren't going to get it. In our area, you can buy beginner supplies in a lot of big stores that don't have a single person who can answer even the most basic question on staff. I never knew a real home-brew shop existed until--by chance--someone sent me to the one I use now. I don't remember how I got started with HBD and its resources, but, again, I had to be led here somehow. Even I do not belong to our local club--just haven't gotten around to it--so I have learned nothing from it. In summary, if you are a rank beginner who starts on a whim, you really don't know where to go to get the little tips that make so much difference in your beer, the little things we all do (or don't do) so routinely we barely think about it. You may not realize what is possible, and how easy it is to go from bad beer to good beer. I am suggesting, then, that those who are pretty confident about their wares and skills do some promoting outside the normal circles, because the normal circles, as I said before, do not include these people. This could include beginner courses in whatever local system you have for these sorts of things. It could include having a party on big brew day in May in which you invite people outside that normal brewing circle to a beer making barbecue. A local club could sponsor (and advertise) events that are not competitions but are instead exchanges of ideas and recipes. Brian Rezac's recent post mentioning the use of coconut reminds me of a recent event like this in Boulder at which I got to taste his excellent chai (sp?) beer. In this event, a local establishment was set up so that you came in, paid $5, and spent the day tasting the wares of the local microbreweries and a few home brewers, like Brian. You got to ask them questions about how they did whatever they were doing. They even had a local radio station broadcasting from the place and doing interviews with some of the participants. It was fun and informative at the same time. Just some thoughts. - -- John Adsit Boulder, Colorado jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:26:54 -0500 From: "Boscos Nshville Brewing Co." <boscos at bellsouth.net> Subject: Beer Judging - Style Guidelines Beer Judging - Style Guidelines Reading the recent thread on the digest concerning the BJCP and homebrew contests, I thought as a long time BJCP judge I might offer my perspectives. In my opinion, both the AHA and BJCP style guidelines have two very worthwhile functions. First, they serve as an educational tool that describes traditional beer styles in a general manner. To assume that all beers somehow fit these guidelines is absurd. The idea of style guidelines in most foreign countries is, well, foreign to brewers and consumers alike. As Americans we have this need to label and categorize. The guidelines, however, can play a role in spreading a general understanding of the wonderful diversity of the variety of beers brewed around the world. Second, the guidelines, and BJCP judging methods, are an effective, but not perfect, means of making a very subjective pleasure, beer consumption, into an objective exercise, beer judging. A competition director compiles a competition packet that states the guidelines and methods that will be used to evaluate the beer. A brewer can then decide for himself if he wants his beers judged to these standards, which to some extent are always imperfect in some way. To judge beers simply on parameters such as appearance and flavor with no guidelines would turn a competition into a subjective exercise, guided simply by the judges likes and dislikes. No system is perfect. Using this method, the best beer may not win a competition. But if it works correctly, a brewer who has demonstrated technical brewing skill and expertise in producing a beer that fits certain guidelines will be rewarded for his efforts. Conversely just because a beer does not meet style guidelines does not mean it is a bad beer. If you disagree with this approach, you have several choices. The simplest one is to not enter competitions. Or you may work with the BJCP or a local homebrew competition to develop an alternative method. Or you could organize your own competition. Of all the recent postings I have read on the digest dealing with competitions and judging, I have failed to see anyone mention the most important reason to hold, or enter, a competition. Judging and awarding prizes in an integral part of a competition. But the best competitions I have participated in have a different primary goal. That is, produce an event that celebrates the camaraderie and excitement that most homebrewers have. In short, organize a community event that is educational, stimulating and most of all fun. It never hurts to support the hobby by entering beers into competitions. Chuck Skypeck Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:29:54 -0400 From: "Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com> Subject: Murphy's Stout >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:56:34 -0500 >From: Clark <clark at capital.net> >Subject: "proofing yeasts" > >I had a Murphys Irish Stout a couple weeks ago. Now in my book, hot dogs, >beans and Genny Creams cover the ten basic food groups so this stout was a >real mouthful. I thought that it was excellent. What type of stout is >this considered to be? This is the kind of beer I want to make. Dave, I'm a few days late getting to this, so someone may have answered you by now. Murphy's is one of the 3 widely available (maybe last 3 remaining?) traditional dry Irish stouts. The most well-known is, of course, Guinness - brewed in Dublin. Ask for a "beer" in Dublin and you get Guinness. Murphy's is brewed in Cork. Personally, this one is my favorite, although that's blasphemy in most circles. You wouldn't want to say that out loud in a Dublin pub. Beamish (not sure where in Ireland it's brewed off hand) is a distant third in my book. I think the "standard" recipe is 70% pale malt, 15% roasted unmalted barley, and 15% flaked barley. There are numerous interpretations of this, so you can experiment til you get what you like. The key to the style is a hefty amount of roasted barley. Ferment with Wyeast 1084 Irish ale yeast, or something similar. Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:20:04 -0400 From: Paul Haaf <haafbrau1 at juno.com> Subject: Beer Joke This was sent to me, and I thought I'd pass it along. A guy walks in a bar, and buys a huge beer. Then he sees some people he knows, and decides to say "hi" to them, but he does not want to drag his beer mug with him. So he sets it on a table, along with a note on a napkin stating: "I spit in this beer", hoping that no one would steal it. Upon return, he sees another note saying "Me too!" Paul Haaf They're coming to take me away, Haha - Napoleon XIII ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:23:46 -0400 (EDT) From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Big Brew / Diacetyl Brain writes: >John, I never said that the recipe was wrong. I said it was >inefficient. What is "wrong" in brewing? There have been mistakes >and un-intended series of events that have turned into what we now >refer to as classic beer styles. I could see someone saying that it >would be wrong to put coconut in a porter. However, Ichiri Fujiura >did just that and won the AHA 1998 Homebrewer of the Year. It is not wrong to brew. Brewing itself is a good thing. I think any encouragement to get new people brewing is good for the hobby. I don't think disseminating misinformation is useful to anyone. Brewer's used to make drinkable beer from sugar-laced extract, old hops and bread yeast, but I wouldn't recommend that a beginner start out this way. It has been proven through trial and error, that good extract, fresh hops, and cultured yeast make better beer. It has been shown that adding starchy adjuncts to wort without the presence of active enzymes results in a poorer quality product than if these starches were exposed to amylase and properly reduced to sugars. The only unintended new style that might result from 100's of home brewers producing starch laden wort is perhaps "Black Lambic Drain-O", but who knows it might catch on. With the relative unfermentablity of this wort and the high percentage of unconverted starch, thousands of bottle-grenades in hundreds of households all across America could be the final result! This certain seems like an odd way of honoring/remembering somebody who has done a lot for homebrewing (Bob McCracken). Would he have approved? The only possible way to use the listed recipe and also promote good brewing practice is for the extract recipe to call for diastatic malt extract with a temperature rest in the proper range for the amalyse to work (i.e. - mashing). Perhaps lemons could be turned into lemonade here by making it a point to express the need of active enzymes when using starchy adjuncts in extract recipes. The AHA could dispel this bad practice with national exposure! (Although it will directly contradict methods published in Papazian's own books). Will you take this route? or let this misinfo continue to propagate? It simply is not possible to successfully brew all styles of beer using malt extracts. You might come close and you might inadvertently invent a new style, but you will have to settle for that. I'm sure Ichiri Fujiura's coconut porter did not win as a classic example of a porter (at least I *hope* not). It's not wrong to put coconut in a porter, but it certainly isn't any recognized style of porter, just a damn tasty beer (to some). - -- Dr Pivo posted a nice bit on diacetyl. I have always thought that diacetyl smelled honey-like and could never get the connection to butter or even butterscotch. I recently brewed a decoction mashed 100% 2 row barley wine (how's that for bucking style tradition!). I thought it had the most wonderful honey aroma. I had George De Piro taste it a few weeks ago at a comp and he immeadiately said it smelled very buttery. Later that evening I had my wife smell it. After a few moments she ruled that it smelled of butterscotch. Later, John - -- John Varady The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program Boneyard Brewing Custom Neon Beer Signs For Home Brewers Glenside, PA Get More Information At: rust1d at usa.net http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:31:20 -0400 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Broken Thermometer Jeff Fabrizio ( jethro at i1.net ) wrote about his broken thermometer. When I have done this ( more times than I care to admit ) I have found that the balls are magnetic which means that they are steel and harmless for the most part. Check them with a magnet. As for the wax, I drank the beer and I seem to be OK or rather not so bad that anyone would be willing to bring it up to my face at least not in public very often when my wife is around. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com 72723.1707 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:41:42 -0400 From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu> Subject: Re: Aluminum pots I have a 10-gal aluminum pot that I used for a couple of years for both crawfish boils and brewing, and I never had a problem with it. I am currently using an enamel canning pot with an Easymasher for a spigot. I quit using the aluminum pot only because I've moved and it's more convienient to brew in the kitchen than outside in my new house, and because I was a little nervous about drilling a hole in an expensive 10-gal pot. The Easymasher works great for filtering break. I whirlpool the cooled wort with my immersion chiller, and when everything settles, the hops form a filter bed over the screen and keep out much of the break. When the new deck and backyard are finished, I'll likely put an Easymasher in the aluminum kettle and move back outdoors. Regards, Tidmarsh Major Birmingham, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:39:16 -0600 From: jpugh at hjnews.com (Jeremy B. Pugh) Subject: RE: how do you chill and transfer from boil to fermenter? >Question...how do you chill and transfer from boil to fermenter? >nathan in madison, WI J. Doug Brown responded: Nathan, "I built a counter concurrent wort chiller that I use to do just that. It is made entirely out of copper, cost me $56 in materials...Using 25' for the coil should reduce the cost to around $30." I say: Williams Brewing sells an easy to use, ready-to-roll wort chiller for $28.50 plus S&H. Check out: http://www.williamsbrewing.com/wort.htm I spent 20 minutes at the plumbing supply store to buy an adapter for my quirky faucet. It seems like the time and effort to build J. Doug Brown's project would offset the S&H. Plus shipping and handling is free if you order $50 worth of stuff at Williams, surely there are a few bips and bobs to complete your brewery that could make up the difference. But hey, you might be into the MacGyver thing. PS: No. I don't work for Williams but they've always been great when I couldn't get things locally. Jeremy, Logan Utah Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:57:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Abene <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: beer and diabetics Hi all, I have been married to an insulin dependent diabetic for 13 years now and have noticed many things. One is if you don't have control of your diabetes and drink and eat poorly you will die. The other is that if you eat right, check your sugar levels often and get your A1C level down to something that is not frightening you live a pretty normal life. My wife is currently on an insulin pump, has a A1C of 5.2 and an average blood glucose level of 90-110. She is in fantastic control. She also loves beer. She is not a heavy drinker and she does not normally consume to become drunk. Her average beer consumption is two beers. She has found that a big beer (1.060 and up OG) is roughly 15 carbs which equals roughly 1 unit of insulin. Note: she said that when she was "needle dependent" that beer rarely changed her glucose levels but with the tighter control of her insulin pump she does notice changes. For her I think it all boils down to being in ultimate control of her diabetes. I personally think that if you are an out of control diabetic that is living off fast food and beer while not monitoring your glucose levels or calorie/carb intake etc. that you are on a suicide quest. Also remember that diabetes hits everyone in different ways some people live a very normal life with it others experience many complications no matter what they do. I will probably get flamed on some of these statements but oh well. I also am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV or anywhere else (well, there was that time with Jeanine Bucek but... hmmmm errr never mind). Ultimately check with your doctors and get under control and keep control. I have learned a lot after being around my wife for almost 16 years... I have learned how to spot high sugar levels, low sugar levels. I have learned that doctors are either educated about diabeted or they are witch doctors that can scare the shit of a diabetic because they have not kept up with their knowledge on the subject. I have also learned that no person no matter how young or old deserves to live with diabetes. All of you that homebrew or know homebrewers or even regular drinkers that are diabetec need to educate yourselves about what you really need to do to live without making yourselves casualties of this disease. Check out some of the Diabetic medical sites on the web. Check out some of the support groups and chats (like Melissa's chat). Teach yourself to live better and eat right. Well, enough preaching from me. I will now go back to more important things like Slamming Charlie P and his AHA carnival! C'ya! -Scott "I don't need no stinking badges" Abene === ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net> http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) "The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:11:31 -0400 From: "Nix, Andrew" <anix at bechtel.com> Subject: Re: Murphy's stout In response to Jeff and Dave's discussion of stouts, I disagree as well. Murphy's is not what I would catagorize as a sweet stout, but rather a dry stout like Guinness. On another note, in my trip to Ireland last summer, in talking with many people about beer, many, MANY Irishmen with tell you that Murphy's taste like a bad pint of Guinness. I personally disagree, and think that Murphy's is a fine example of the style that is the dry stout. Andrew C. Nix Frederick, MD (Long way from Jeff Renner) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:31:29 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: Refractometers Hi George: I don't have your catalog in front of me (where are you looking?), but often ATC is necessary for "in-line" refractometers. I used to make food ingredients (the stuff that goes in the stuff you eat) and we used ATC refractometers mounted in the piping of certain processes. ATC is also useful when measuring medium to high-solids starch pastes. They turn opaque when cool which ruins any chance of obtaining an accurate measurement. However, in brewing neither of these situations are particularly relevant unless you have oodles of cash to justify the in-line approach. Go cheaper and you'll be fine. Cheers! Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:09:33 -0400 From: Bob.Sutton at fluordaniel.com Subject: CHEAP pH Meter ? As I was browsing though my local Brookstone store, I noticed a pH meter to test plant soil conditions was available for under $20. The analog display scale was such that one could eyeball the 5-6 range and perform a decent interpolation. Of course there's the question of the underlying instrument accuracy. Although this appealed to my frugal character - but my skeptic side prevailed and I left it on the shelf. It looked as though the probe was simply a metallic spike - no gel, etc.. Has anyone tested one of these. >From the foothills of Sawth Caroliner... Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:22:20 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Refractometers, sweet stout,butter Brewsters: George De Piro asks why refractomers need temperature compensation. It is true as you say that the liquid in the drop refractometer will come to the temperature of the quartz plate quickly, but the temperature of the quartz plate will not always be at the standard temperature ( typically 20C or 25C). As you know, temperature does affect the density of the liquid and therfore the refractivity. To get an accurate reading, therefore, either the instrument must be at a standard temperature ( the best) or some sort of assumption must be made about the temperature dependence of the liquid density and therefore the refractivity. Dilute aqueous solutions will most likely have a similar expansion coefficient over a modest temperature range. This should give you some pause when you realize the use of refractometers in the wine industry is to estimate the Brix of the grape juice while out in the field. Without temperature compensation a substantial error can be made in this estimate and grapes can be picked too early or too late, causing contractual problems . I really wonder about the use of the refractometer for judging beer alcohol content, since unlike grape juice where the major component is sugar, beer has a substantial quantity of other dissolved substances. I would imagine that the OG &FG of the beer would be very important factors in the use of this instrument for this purpose. Do you know of an established procedure for doing this?? - ---------------------------------------------- I <knew> I was going to get into trouble for saying that Murphy's Stout was sweet. Jeff Renner was the instrument, pointing out that he and Michael Jackson both agree that Murphy's Stout is a dry stout. How can I argue with Jeff Renner and Michael Jackson even though my tastebuds tell me otherwise? Unfortunately, my books on Stout are further away from me than Jeff Renner, so I can't check the profiling for Murphy's in Stout Classical Series. Perhaps another HBDer could do so. In the meantime, M&BS p251 1st ed says: Grist Malt Stout Sweet Stout Caramel 3% 2% Black Malt 4% 3.5 Pale-Ale 93% Glucose Syrup 2.5% Wheat Flour 10% Mild-Ale Malt 82% Hops 1.0 lb/brl 0.6 lb/brl OG 1.037 1.040 Primings for Malt Stout - 2 pints/brl in fermentation vessel 2 pints/brl in racking back or conditioning tank SG = 1.150 Priming for Sweet Stout - 8 pints/brl at SG = 1.150 these are old British units. a Pint is 20 ounces and a barrel is 43.2 US gallons for those who wish to use this as a starting point in a formulation. Caramel is another name for crystal malt. Mild Ale malt is slightly darker (6-7 EBC) than pale ale (5 EBC) malt. Therefore, the primary differences are the hopping level 1.0 lbs/brl for dry vs 0.6 lbs/brl for sweet. For perspective, bitter has hops at 0.8 lbs/brl and mild ale at 0.7 lbs/brl. I am not quite sure what to make of the difference in the primings level. The levels given for Malt Stout are the same as for all the other beers in the table Does it mean the Sweet Stout is higher carbonated or is it that not all the primings are consumed by the time the customer is served? If this latter condition were the case ( unlikely in today's business), then I could see that there might be a difference in sugar content. Otherwise, the primary difference between sweet and dry stouts is the hopping level. It is my impression that this is exactly the case in today's world. Murphy's "softer" taste is due to a lower hopping level which allows me to taste more of the sweetness in the background, compared to Guinness. What used to be called Milk Stout is of course very sweet with added lactose which is not yeast fermentable. Another diffference likely is the mashing temperature. p 609 op cit Guinness Stout has % unfermented matter of 39% and Mackeson of 49%. Alcohol content is 4.4-5.1 for Guinness versus 3.7-3.8 for Mackeson. Guinness' OG is 1.040-1.046 and Mackeson is 1.044 -1.047. Mackeson is obviously brewed at a higher mash temperature to produce a higher level of unfermentables. Iso-humulones for Guinness are 55-62 ppm and Mackeson has 27-31. It appears that Mackeson is, at least analytically, a sweet stout based on the above table. I had always assumed that Murphy's ( less so than Mackeson's) and Mackeson's were sweet stouts based on my tastebuds. If we accept this argument then we see that there is no sweet versus dry quantum leap controversy, rather a continuous spectrum of flavors - bitter balancing the sweet in stouts. The overall perception ( sweet or dry) of the drinker is what matters, but is an individual assessment, since drinkers have different sensitivities to bitterness and sweetness. Even with Guinness, supposedly THE example of dry stout, the export stout in small bottles varies from the kegged stout and the Caribbean version is different from the Dublin version in the sweetness/bitterness ratio. However in each of these cases it is clear that bitterness predominates and why I think of it as a "dry" Stout. In other stouts, such a predominance is not so clear. When the hop character is not pronounced and the background sweetness from the dextrins is evident, I call this a sweet stout. Thus Clini...would not be useful in distinguishing a sweet stout from a dry one, since sweet stouts by this definition do not necessarily have reducing sugars in them. I came across another comment of interest on p397 M&BS said that in stouts FWH (first wort hopping) is used. They didn't use this silly terminology, but said that all the hops were added and kept simmering while the copper was filled. Maybe this is one of those magic processing tips for which all of us Stoutsters have been searching. I'll give it a try next time. - --------------------------------------------------- Dr. Pivo - diacetyl reportedly is used as the major flavoring ingredient in "butter" flavoring, so diacetyl does have a butter flavor in high enough concentrations, but is most likely detected in beers as butterscotch, especially when it is in the presence of other diones, which often have a honey-like aroma. I also like diacetyl, in moderation, but not in my lagers. - --------------------------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:32:35 +0000 From: "J. Doug Brown" <jbrown at labyrinth.net> Subject: Chiller, Hot and Cold Break questions Ok, I'll admit it, I a little wet behind the ears here, so here I go. I was reading and saw the mention that beer in contact with trub can cause off flavors. It is also my understanding that trub was a combination of yeast sedimentation, hot and cold breaks and hops or other particulate matter which settles. My questions are these: 1) During my initial boiling with John Bull LME 6.6 pounds to product 4.5 gallons wort, I noticed light/white colored particles floating the the boiling wort that would settle after I stopped stirring the wort. Is this white/light colored stuff hot break? 2) I am using a counter concurrent wort chiller to reduce the temperature of the boiling wort to 55F (last time) 70F (next batch) usually takes 5 seconds to flow through the chiller, is this sufficiently fast to produce a cold break? 3) Should I be filtering out the hot and cold breaks prior to placing the wort in my primary? Should I rack to the secondary sooner to remove most of the trub? Should I do multi-stage racking ie after 1 day, after 5 days, then bottle after 14 days? 4) Will a hot and cold break be possible using only extract brewing? 5) For the Brewoff, using the Collaborator Milk Stout, is there a recipe for extract only brewers, or should I just brew a pale ale and be happy joining in on that day. Thanks for your thoughts J. Doug Brown jbrown at labyrinth.net http://www.labs.net/jbrown Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:37:33 -0500 From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com> Subject: Hop Shoots Just thought I would pass along an experience with hop shoots, I collected some (about 4 to 6 inches long each) and fryed them in butter with some salt (to taste) and garlic powder (to taste). Damn good eatin! If you grow hops, now is the time to try it before the shoots loose their purple color, after which they are too tough to eat. Kind of tasted like Birds Eye 'bavarian green beans', with out the grean bean flavor. If anyone else has a recipe, I would like to see it and give it a try. Rich Sieben Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:27:10 -0400 From: Chuck Cubbler <chuck at maguire.com> Subject: Sam Adams Summer Ale Clone A few days ago, Tom Puskar asked for recipes for a SA Summer Ale clone. No one (I think) has responded so far, so here's my recipe, thanks to Phyllis at Beercrafters (no affiliation, yada, yada)..... 5 Gallon, Partial Mash 3# Malted Wheat 1# Belgian Carapils Single Infusion at ~152?F, 1 hr., 1? qts per # Sparge with 5 qts at 168?F 3.3# Northwestern Weizen LME 1# Wheat DME 2 oz Czech Saaz 3.2% Fresh Lemon Zest (yellow outer skin) from 2 lemons ? tsp Paradise Seeds, Crushed 60 min boil, add hops, zest, seeds after 45 min Wyeast Belgian Wheat (#3942) OG= 1.032, FG= 1.007 This was not quite a copy, but very tasty indeed. I'll be making more soon. ========================================== Chuck Cubbler Homebrewin', Harley Ridin' Libertarians of New Jersey Take the Quiz http://www.self-gov.org/lp-quiz.shtml ========================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:47:16 -0500 From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com> Subject: A Newbie Brewer Question . . . Take a trip back in time . . .You have all the knowledge you have aquired from homebrewing still intact, you have been brewing now long enought to have made literally dozens of batches, but somehow you have NO equipment!!! You can spend what you need to, but not to extravagance, and to top it all off you likely will have to make your first few batches with the assistance of your dumb brother-in-law doing all the actually "hands-on" work (we'll assume for our little exercise that you cannot DO anything - justgive instructions). Your batches will not be larger than 5-6 gallons, you will start a new batch every two-three weeks, and your beer tastes have turned towards stouts and porters (with the occasional batch of Canoe beer for the wife). Now: What equipment would you buy? How much would it all cost together? Who would you buy it from (over the net)? Does anyone that you know of sell all of this in a kit? Remember that you need to defend each of these answers to the wife. Thanx . . . Brett A. Spivy Return to table of contents
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