---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Rust Never Sleeps (ThomasM923)
  BPs in western NY (MicahM1269)
  Decimal Point/sulfur/grit (AJ)
  Nottingham yeast ("George De Piro")
  Cousin John's (Explosive) Imperial Stout ("Penn, John")
  Cheaters Sour Mash (randy.pressley)
  Upcoming competitions (Jeff Pursley)
  Lag time with Lallemand yeasts (Paul Shick)
  Comment on LMDA/UBA for Louis Bonham ("WILLIAM R. SIEBEL")
  Re: coffee in the brew (Alan Edwards)
  Re: Rotten eggs and Ayinger yeast (Jeff Renner)
  Good Stuff (LaBorde, Ronald)
  follow up to Coffee in my Brew ("Dave Blaine")
  Re: Artful Brewing ("Steven J. Owens")
  Chicago Area Sites ("Geiser, Chris")
  Condolences (Eric.Fouch)
  Brewfest in Indianapolis?? (Stacy)" <sgroene at lucent.com>
  re: Primetab (MaltHound)
  was: White Sugar in English Ales - Now: what sugar is good sugar (MaltHound)
  dextrin[e]s terminology/SPAM/CideryFlavor+sugar ("Stephen Alexander")
  Newbie worries (Jeff Porterfield)
  Re: Rotten eggs and such (Teutonic Brewer)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 2000 MCAB Qualifiers: Boneyard Brew-Off 6/12/99
* (http://www.uiuc.edu/ro/BUZZ/contest5.html);  Buzz-Off! 
* Competition 6/26/99 (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 01:12:00 EDT
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Rust Never Sleeps

Hello All,

I've been thinking about soldering (brazing is the correct term, I suppose) 
some small stainless steel parts together with jeweler's silver solder, which 
flows at about 1300 degrees F. I seem to recall reading about some problems 
with rust if SS is overheated during the brazing process. Is this a real 
concern? If it is, what is the layman's technique for re-passivating SS if it 
does get overheated? A tip of the fez in advance...

Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:33:25 EDT
From: MicahM1269 at aol.com
Subject: BPs in western NY

Does anyone have a recommendations for brew pubs and/or micros in the 
Jamestown/Salamanca area of western New York? I'm going to be in that area 
later this month and would like to check out the local beers.

TIA

Micah Millspaw-brewer at large


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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:55:14 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Decimal Point/sulfur/grit

Mike Maceyka remembered (with a question mark in the back of his mind)
that typical pitching rates are 1e7 cell/mL/P. The number I remember is
1e6 for most beers with an increase of perhaps a factor of 2 for bocks
and other high gravity beers.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

BioCoat at aol.com complains of strong sulfur smells using YCKC's Ayinger
strain in a Dortmunder. I'm not familiar with this particular product
but you can take some comfort in the fact that many, if not most,
continental lager strains do produce a fair amount of sulfur/sulfide.
These are among the main components of "Jungbuket" (I keep thinking of
Hyacinthe) the reduction of which is one of the principal reasons for
lagering. The potential bad news is that spoilage organisms also produce
lots of H2S. After using a strain a few times you will know what to
expect.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Matt Birchfield asked about the gritty material he finds in bottles
soaked in a bleach solution. I really don't know what this is but will
hazzard a guess along the same lines Matt is thinking of. Bleach
contains a lot of lye (sodium hydroxide) to the extent that the usual
ounce/per gallon concentration results in a pH of about 9. If the water
contains a lot of temporary hardness (and high hardness was mentioned)
elevation of the pH to 9 might be enough to cause precipitation of
calcium carbonate and I'm guessing that this is what the crud is. This
is easily tested by collecting some of the crud and pouring a little
vinegar over it (make sure the grits are well washed before doing this).
If it fizzes the stuff is carbonate. The reason the grits should be
washed is because acid over hypochlorite causes fizzing too but the fizz
is chlorine gas.

If the crud is calcium carbonate it can be removed, obviously, by
washing with dilute acid (such as hardware store muriatic - don't use
vinegar). It would be much better to make up the bleach solution with
soft water though. If your water is hard enough to precipitate calcium
carbonate upon boiling try softening some that way.


- --
A. J. deLange
Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.




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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 99 07:43:01 PDT
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: Nottingham yeast

Hi all,

This should make Rob Moline happy...

Thus far, I have used 4 different yeast strains in my commercial
brewing endeavors.  These are Wyeast 2112, a Fuller's yeast
obtained from Commonwealth in NYC, the Hubert Hangofer
Weizen strain, and Nottingham dry.  I am currently growing
a 5th and 6th strain (Wyeast 3944 and a culture from
a bottle of Blanche de Bruges; I will use whichever
starter tastes best).

The Nottingham is used in our blonde ale.  The yeast is fairly
neutral, but has kicked out some sulfur during
fermentation (which is usually at ~62F).  Some
have commented that my blonde ale seems
lager-like, but I think it is more a function of
the malt bill (90% Weyermann pils malt) than
the yeast (which is very slightly fruity).

Like some others that have posted here, I have
experienced slow starts with this yeast.  It takes
upwards of 24 hours to get any activity.  If you
think a long lag makes you nervous with a 5 gallon batch,
you should try it with 10 barrels!

I will do a viability check using methylene blue the
next time I use the Nottingham to see if cell death
explains the long lag time.  Of course, methylene
blue staining isn't perfect, but's its all I've got right now.

Have fun!

George de Piro
Brewer, CH Evans Brewing Co.
at the Albany Pump Station
(518) 447-9000

Malted Barley Appreciation Society
"Brooklyn's Best Homebrew Club"
http://hbd.org/mbas


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:02:14 -0400 
From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Cousin John's (Explosive) Imperial Stout

First question, what can I use to clean hops off the ceiling and walls?
Second, what is good for removing wort from the carpeting?

Well even though I had a recent low attenuation with Nottingham yeast I must
say it has always been a fast fermenter and good flocculator.  I wanted to
brew a strong beer with my wife's cousing who's visting from Colorado so
that hopefully in a couple of years we can visit him in CO and give him some
of the beer.  Many of my other strong beers (8-10% abv) have lasted a long
time and last years barleywine is still getting better and better.  Besides
he was curious about brewing and has done a few brews at a BOP in Denver but
never tried it on a homebrewing scale.  The recipe:

Cousin John's Imperial Stout (5.5 gallons, OG ~1.090, IBUs ~60, est FG
~1.020, 9%abv)
(concentrated extract boil ~2:1)
1/2 # Roasted Barley
1/2 # Chocolate Malt
1/2 # Crystal Malt (40L)
2 # clover honey 
~11.5 # M&F light extract LME
~25 (27) HBUs of bittering hops 45 min boil (3-1/2 oz Perle)
~1.5 oz finishing hops 0 min (Mt. Hood)
Nottingham Dry Yeast (large starter)

I wanted to make a sufficient starter knowing the 5X rule of thumb for
lagers and 10X rule of thumb for ale yeasts.  Since this was a strong beer
(>8% abv) I knew I would need 2 to 3X the normal rule of thumb to ferment
completely.  So I was planning on a 1 to 1.5 gallon starter using Nottingham
dry yeast which I has been very successful for high gravity beers.  The
starter used 3/4 # of M&F light extract in about 1.5 gallons of water
(~1.017-8 OG) made the day before brewing and was bubbling away at brewing
time.  Everything went well in brewing the batch and it smelled great and
tasted like it was going to be a real winner.  I inadvertantly added the
honey early in the boil instead of the end, so I increased my hops slightly
from 25 HBUs to 27 HBUs to maintain 60 IBUs (per Rager).  The next morning
the foam from the 5.5 gallon batch was near the top of my 6.5+ gallon carboy
and the temp was ~75F.  I put a wet towel over the carboy to keep it from
thermal runaway particularly with the fast fermenting Nottingham yeast.
This started to drop the temp a couple degrees below 75F and when I returned
home that evening less than 24 hrs from brewing there was wort all over the
rug.  Hops were plastered to the ceiling and walls and I lost between 3/4-1
gallon of my precious brew!  Bummer.  I removed the airlock from the floor,
cleaned off my blow off tube and put it in the carboy.  I've heard of
explosive fruit batches but I left more than a gallon of head space and even
though there was several ounces of hop pellets I've never had an explosive
ferment before.  I had also made a batch of ginger ale in parallel:

Ginger Ale (based on Papazians Rocky Raccoon)
(4 gallons, OG ~1.052, IBUs ~28, est FG ~1.008, 5.7%abv)
(concentrated extract boil ~2:1)
4# M&F light extract LME
2# clover honey
~6 (7) HBUs of bittering hops 45 min boil (N.B.)
2 oz of sliced ginger 15 mins
~1oz finishing hops 0 min (cascade)
Nottingham Dry Yeast (rehydrated pkt)

This batch was only 70F the next AM and was starting to bubble very slowly
like 1 or 2 bubbles per minute.  By the evening it was foaming heavily but
did not explode like the adjacent stout and did not quite start as quickly
with rehydrated dry yeast as the large starter I used for the stout.  Again
I forgot and added the honey at the start of the boil instead of the end so
I had to add a little more bittering hops.  No bomb here, just normal
fermenting beer with a reasonably short lag time.  

Well I'm surprised that I had such an explosive ferment since other than the
large starter I've made plenty of 5.5 gallon batches in my 6.5+ gallon
carboy, used the same yeast and made similar strong beers before.  Guess the
one difference was using a large starter which was timed perfectly at
brewing time.

So you others who've had to clean the walls, carpets, etc.  What worked for
you?  TIA.

John Penn 






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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:14:22 -0500
From: randy.pressley at SLKP.COM
Subject: Cheaters Sour Mash

I thought I'd try something different this Saturday
and do a sour mash.  I've read past notes from
fellow HBDer's and various methods and thought
I'd try something a little different and safer.  I would
like some thoughts on whether some of you would
think this method would work.  

1 pound DME mixed with 1/2 gallon of water at 140
degrees.
1 pound of crushed 2-row malt added to Extract.
Put into container and cover.
Put container in oven and maintain temp of 140.
Leave in oven for 12-15 hours.
Remove grains from soured liquid and then add
liquid to Boil.

This would seem to offer a more controlled way
to sour the beer.

Any opinions?


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:19:25 -0500 
From: Jeff Pursley <JPursley at Tulsa.E2M.net>
Subject: Upcoming competitions

Brian Dixon in Oregon asks about upcoming competitions so that he can enter
his 140-Schilling Scotch Ale.  Oklahoma may be a world away, but the
Tulsa-based Fellowship of Oklahoma Ale Makers (FOAM) is hosting Tulsa's
first AHA-sanctioned competition in August.  For details, check out our site
at http://frontpage.webzone.net/dcm/foam.htm.  Click on "Wild Brew '99". 

Jeff Pursley



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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:36:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Lag time with Lallemand yeasts


Hello all,

	Paul Niebergall asks about long lag times with Lallemand
Manchester yeast.  Paul, I've had the same problem with my last
two batches using the Nottingham yeast.  The first time, life got
a bit chaotic at pitching time, and I just sprinkled two 5g packets
into each carboy, without rehydrating.  I did aerate thoroughly with
O2, however.  It took 24+ hours to get any real fermentation going,
30 hours to a reasonable krauesen.  The beer (a CACA, if you don't 
mind the acronym,) turned out quite good, though.  I did a similar
11 gallon batch 2 weeks ago, this time being careful to be organized
enough to pitch properly.  I rehydrated the yeast at 100F for 25
minutes, then put the yeast mixture in the carboys (10 grams 
each.) I ran off the 75F wort on top of it, then aerated thoroughly
and put the carboys in a 65F basement.  It still took 30 hours to take
off.  In both cases, the yeast packets were supposed to be fresh
(well within the expiration dates) and had been refrigerated, both at
the homebrew shop and at home.  I'm not sure what else I can do to
help this yeast along, short of attempering it a bit more carefully after
rehydrating.

	Sorry to be so long, but this lag time problem is a bit 
perplexing to me (and Paul N, it seems.)  The yeast count in 10
grams per 5 gallons should be more than high enough to get a quick
start with fermentation, without having to go through a lot of
reproduction first.  This sure sounds like a viability issue with
the Lallemand drying process.  I've read of others who've had similar 
experiences with Lallemand yeasts recently, so it might not be an
isolated problem.  Perhaps Rob/Jethro can suggest some changes in
our pitching practices that might help.  Or, Rob, have there been
changes in the Lallemand production procedures that might be to blame?

	I'm not trying to bash Lallemand, by the way.  I think that
the Nottingham yeast is a wonderful product, that ferments very cleanly
and completely and has the great attraction of not requiring a starter
(so I can brew more or less on a whim, instead of planning a week 
ahead of time.)  These recent difficulties are annoying BECAUSE it's
such a good yeast.  I'd hate to be forced to stop using it.

   			Paul Shick 
 			Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH

 



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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:52:08 -0500
From: "WILLIAM R. SIEBEL" <SIEBELINSTITUTE at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Comment on LMDA/UBA for Louis Bonham

Hi Louis,
I read your comments on LMDA and fully agree with you that it is without
a doubt the best all purpose medium for detecting and identifying beer
bugs.I am also very pleased that the BSI is looking after the interests
of the home brewer. Just a word of caution- in order to guarantee that
you are detecting all beer spoiling bacteria ( lactic acid bacteria) you
really should incubate your plates anaerobically. Some lactic acid
bacteria tolerate air quite well and will grow adequately in the
presence of air. Obviously all wort spoiling bacteria and yeast will
grow very well in the presence of air.However, some lactic acid bacteria
are pretty sensitive to air and do not grow very well in the presence of
air. Have you heard about a medium called HLP (Hsu's Lactobacillus,
Pediococcus ) that is specially designed to detect and grow lactic acid
bacteria aerobically? It is a semi solid medium that is simple to
prepare and is dispensed into test tubes. This medium is selective and
will only grow lactic acid bacteria, so in order to detect all bugs you
may find in your beer, it should be used in combination with LMDA. HLP
medium is available from the Siebel Institute of Technology in Chicago.
Happy brewing and keep an eye on those bugs,

Lyn Kruger.
lyn at siebelinstitute.com


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:53:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com>
Subject: Re: coffee in the brew

Hi, 
I brew my own beer and I also brew my own coffee. 8-D  While I've never
put coffee in beer, I have tried several different methods of brewing
coffee.  One major difference between metal screen methods, like the
French press and gold mesh cone filters, and using paper filters is that
the paper removes most of the oil.  That's why some prefer the taste that
the metal filter gives.

So, if I were to put coffee in beer, I'd filter it through a paper cone.

If you really want to remove all oil possible, maybe after you filter it
let it sit calmly(+) in a gravy seperator for a long while(+) and only
use the coffee poured from the bottom.

 -Alan in Fremont, CA


(+) WARNING, WARNING:  USE OF HIGHLY UNSCIENTIFIC TERMS AND METHODS.
    SUBJECT SHOULD EITHER BE REBUTTED BY EXPERTS, OR FLAMED INTO OBLIVION.


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:20:35 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Rotten eggs and Ayinger yeast

BioCoat at aol.com worries:

>I have been fermenting a Dortmunder for 2 days now and am getting a very
>strong sulfur/rotten egg smell.  I am using the Ayinger yeast from YCKC . Has
>anyone else seen this behavior with this yeast?

Don't worry.  Many lager yeasts throw this kind of stink (or as AJ reminded
us it is called in German, Jungbukett).  Ayinger is no exception, but it
will greatly diminish by the end of fermentation and go away during
lagering.

Ayinger has quickly become my favorite lager yeast.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:59:55 -0500 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Good Stuff

I stumbled upon an interesting web page for us microscope viewers.  Lots of
good pictures can be mined from this site.  Good information and pictures
showing petri dishes in action!

http://medic.med.uth.tmc.edu/path/00001450.htm

It looks like it's from the University of Texas - Houston Medical School

Have fun,

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:41:02 -0400
From: "Dave Blaine" <i.brew2 at telebot.net>
Subject: follow up to Coffee in my Brew

Thanks to those who responded.  For those who were curious, most found no
problem with head retention from adding a pot of coffee to the brew pot or
secondary.  Those who tried adding ground or cracked coffee beans to either
said "DONT DO THIS"
One fellow explained that brewing the coffee with a paper filter greatly
reduces oils whereas a screen or french press preserves the oils, so for
beer stick with paper filtered coffee.  Another good suggestions was to brew
a mocha flavored bean to impart a chocolate flavor at the same time!.  I
will be using these ideas real soon in my attempt to clone Red Rook Double
Dark stout. ,;-)
Dave B.
i.brew2 at telebot.net
visit the homebrew research page at
http://clik.to/ibrew2



_____________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:23:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff at netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Artful Brewing

Felix Daske (DaskeF at bcrail.com) writes:
> MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA clearly presents his thoughts when he, 
> in HBD#3049, discussed the notion of brewing as science.  [...]
> [..] I, too, could not begin to describe 
> to you the meaning of art.  However, I can describe how I feel
> when I perform activities which "people who should know say" 
> constitute art.  
> [...]
> I need science to 'explain' brewing to me, I need science
> to make quick adjustments, I need science to help taste the 
> results of my efforts however, the art of brewing, cooking 
> and baking help define who I am.  Call it what you will.

     The english language is a slippery thing at best; I just tried to
find a good reference on the web, an etymology page or a dictionary
definition, to back up what I'm about to say, but the Merriam-Webster
dictionary gives 33 different meanings for the word "art", and of
them, only one even starts to resemble the popular concept of
art-as-something-beyond-science.

     I used to write for a living.  Writers too are faced with this
contradiction, "is it a science or is it an art?"  The answer I was
given as a young writer is, "neither."  Writing is a craft, a
synthesis of science and art.

     What happened in the world, such that science or art are elevated
above craft?  Is it that most traditional crafts have been superseded
by mass manufacturing?  Or that scientists and artists (or more
properly, the ecology of people who make their living off the same)
have marketed and promoted their domains while craftsmen were busy
about their craft?

     Today, I'm actually reluctant to refer to anything I do a a
craft, at least not in the public eye.  I craft leather as well as
words (and someday I hope to craft beer).  At one point I considering
starting a leathercrafting mailing list (since then, I've found an
excellent list to join) but I shied away from calling it
"leathercraft" for fear it would have overtones of tackiness.

Steven J. Owens
puff at netcom.com




     



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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:40:47 -0500 
From: "Geiser, Chris" <Chris.Geiser at Unisys.Com>
Subject: Chicago Area Sites

I will be in Evanston on Thursday June 18 and am interested in maximizing
this "Beer Hunting" opportunity by visiting the best places for real beer in
the Chicago area, and possibly Milwaukee. Any recommendations will be
greatly appreciated and private e-mail to Chris.Geiser at Unisys.Com is
welcomed.
TIA



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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:48:00 -0400
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Condolences

Fred and I offer our sincerest condolences to the Babcock and Lutzen families:

"This gives the benefit of an uninterrupted Digest should both Janitors perish
"in some transcontinental cataclysm.
"
"This is what happened in the 6/8/99 Digest."

Two questions, though-
1) What was the cataclysmic event?
	(Fred and I were away at a Tofu Convention, and haven't seen the news)
2) Who sent the note?

Eric Fouch,
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood, MI
"..but you never know, until you know."
                                                -Dr. Pivo




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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:11:11 -0400 
From: "Groene, Stacy B (Stacy)" <sgroene at lucent.com>
Subject: Brewfest in Indianapolis??

My wife mentioned to me that there may be a beer festival of some sort in
Indianapolis over the weekend of June 18.  I have not been able to find any
supporting information, so I will appeal to the Indianapolis area HBD'ers
for help.  

 I'd hate to miss the opportunity to go to this...who knows when my wife
will my wife will suggest again that we dedicate a weekend to beer
activities:)

Thanks

Stacy Groene
Columbus, OH


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:06:10 EDT
From: MaltHound at aol.com
Subject: re: Primetab

Back in HBD 3032, Bobpreed at aol.com asks for experiences using Primetabs.  

I have used them on occasion and find them to be extremely convenient.  They 
are especially useful in those situations where you don't have an entire 
batch to bottle.  As an example, I usually use 7 gallon bucket  for primary 
fermenters and when I transfer to carboy secondarys am often left with a half 
gallon or so in the bucket.  Just fill a few bottles with the leftovers and 
use primetabs.  Voila!

I have found that when priming a fully fermented beer, contrary to the 
instructions provided, it takes a minimum of 3 tabs to get a low level of 
carb. suitable for a bitter.  4 tabs get a higher carbonation level such as 
for an APA or Porter.  I have not tested 5 tabs yet.

As I mention, these are very convenient for use in a limited number of 
bottles, but I would personally opt for batch priming for economy and 
efficiency in full sized batch situations.

As always, YMMV

Regards,
Fred Wills
Londonderry, NH


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:06:26 EDT
From: MaltHound at aol.com
Subject: was: White Sugar in English Ales - Now: what sugar is good sugar

In the past few digests there has been some discussion related to the use of 
various refined sugars in brewing quality beer.  Some replies advocate using 
only invert sugar, others say corn sugar while still others say anything goes 
(all things in moderation, etc.).  

My personal *opinion* happens to fall in with those in the last camp.  In 
fact, I have pretty much always used cane sugar for priming bottle 
conditioned beer, though I also tried both corn sugar and DME, since I 
couldn't see any significant difference in the final results and I'm always 
able to locate some when needed in my wife's kitchen.  I also find it easier 
to handle and measure since it doesn't clump up like the others due to its 
granular form.

What exactly is the theory behind *not* using cane sugar as an adjunct in 
lieu of DME, corn or invert sugars.  

Has anyone actually done any comparisons to substanciate the wide disregard 
for sucrose or is this just a brewing urban legend (BUL)?

Regards,
Fred Wills
Londonderry, NH



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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:54:18 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: dextrin[e]s terminology/SPAM/CideryFlavor+sugar

Nathaniel Lansing writes ...

>The first quote back is from my post, I believe in brewing terminology,
>limit dextrins are to what we are commonly referring.

I think YES, we/you are talking about limit dextrins.

>I will _assume_these are "malto-dextrin"  as
>compared to plain ol' dextrins that are used to make paste.

Not sure.  Maltodextrins sometimes seems to refer to alpha 1-4 linked
D-glucose polymers only.  Maltose, maltotriose, maltotetraose ...  and not
to polysaccharides that include 1-6 or other linkages.  *SOME* uses of the
term maltodextrin includes isomaltose, isomaltotriose and similar
rearrangements with 1-6 linkages - and this would match your meaning of
"malto-dextrin".  I doubt that there is much in paste dextrin aside from 1-4
and 1-6 linked d-glucose - the looser definition of malto-dextrin.

Dextrin - as far as I can tell - refers to almost any oligosaccharide made
up of hexose sugars (or perhaps only  D-glucose ?) regardless of the
linkages.  It doesn't include pentose sachharides and there is an
unspecified size limit for dextrins at perhaps 10 or 20 for degree of
polymerization.

>Could you tell me if acid  hydrolysis
>would produce limit-dextrin or the "other" dextrins?

Commercial acid hydrolysis is capable of producing almost pure glucose from
purified starch.  The process is normally stopped before the hydrolysis is
complete.   Enzymatic hydrolysis, which is not quite as effective,  will
produce in excess of 96% glucose from starch (they use other enzymes besides
alpha- beta- amylase). I recently saw a chromatograph of corn syrup
(hydrolyzed corn starch), and the blip for glucose was huge, but there were
significant spots for DP2 - DP5 polymers - in other words they step the
hydrolysis before completion.
===
SPAM ... someone wrote
>I hope everyone sends them an e-mail in protest.
Don't !! Responding to any SPAM is a great way to get your email address
sent to the top of the SPAM lists.  Don't even respond to the "remove at "
address.
===
Cidery flavors from sucrose fermentation are a bit of a mystery.  I've
assumed that they were due to low FAN levels and the resulting impact on
yeast metabolism.  [ I think Dave Burley meant to say this as low protein
(esp FAN) in the wort, *not* grist].   I don't see how the fructose half of
sucrose could create such a flavor.  Infection is another possibility - tho'
I doubt it would be so widespread and consistent if it was infection -
lactobaccili and wild yeast don't present such a consistent flavor profile.
Maybe tho' low FAN gives some infection an advantage over yeast - who knows
?

>The Second World War was their excuse for reducing the OG,
Tho' there is evidence that it was steadily dropping long before WW2 in
response to taxation based on SG. Economics and law does seem to have a
ridiculously large effect on brewing/style for some reason.

 -S




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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 21:20:19 +0000
From: Jeff Porterfield <jporterf at erols.com>
Subject: Newbie worries

Dear HBD Collective:
I guess I'm primarily looking for reassurance about my latest batch.  I 
am a newbie extract brewer working on my fourth batch of beer.  I have 
been using kits put together by my local homebrew store (Maryland 
Homebrew) and have had success with them.  This time we tried to boost 
the body and strength of an American Wheat Ale by adding some addition 
DME with some hops added to try to give it a little more zing.  The 
recipe wound up as follows:

4# Superbrau Light Wheat LME
2# Munton's Plain Wheat DME
1/2 oz. Cascade bittering 
1/4 oz. Cascade flavor
1/4 oz. Cascade aroma
1 g. Grains of Paradise steeped in the heating water until it boiled, 
then removed.

We did a 2 1/2 gallon boil with Great Bear Spring Water for 1 hour with 
hops added after 15, 45, and 55 minutes, then chilled with a water bath 
and poured into a plastic fermenter and added distilled water to top off 
to 5 gallons. OG was 1.051. We pitched 10 g. of Nottingham dry ale yeast 
when the wort was at 72 degrees.

After 36 hours there were slight signs of activity, but never saw 
vigorous bubbling as before.  I got worried after three days without 
obvious signs and checked the gravity today to see if any fermentation 
had occurred.  SG was 1.013.  The sample tasted OK.  Should I be 
concerned about this batch?  The temperature here has been around 100, 
but we have been running the central A/C.  Of course, it hasn't been 
able to keep up completely, and the inside temperature has been 75 or 
so.  This could explain the apparently rapid fermentation.  I plan to 
rack to secondary and taste again.

My main question is, would an infection be apparent on tasting this 
soon?

I'll report back on progress as the situation warrants.

TIA for any information/suggestions/moral support/whatever.

Jeff Porterfield
Lasting Light Brewery
Columbia, Maryland
The best beer money can't buy.


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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 21:21:49 -0600
From: Teutonic Brewer <claassen at swcp.com>
Subject: Re: Rotten eggs and such

I haven't worked with the Ayinger yeast but do have experience with many
other lager yeasts like Wyeast 2206, 2308, 2124, etc.  Some, particularly
the Czech, Bohemian and Munich strains, tend to put out a lot of hydrogen
sulfide, i.e. rotten egg odor.  Judging by the results of quite a few
fermentations, the sulfur production generally means my yeast is very happy
with its food supply.  Rotten eggs = healthy fermentation.  Not to worry,
the rotten egg odor will go away as the fermentation subsides, and the beer
will come out clean.

There is a small chance that the fermentation is infected with sulfur
farting bacteria which, if so, will become apparent quickly enough.
Probably not, though.

Best of luck brewing!

Paul Claassen (Teutonic Brewer)
Albuquerque, Chile Republic of New Mexico



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