---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Good For You Brew ("Alan McKay")
  Triple fermentation (Nathan Kanous)
  Kraeusening, (Dave Burley)
  upcoming trip to (0,0,0) Rennerian (ie. Ann Arbor, MI) (Jeff)
  Thanks and No bubbles ("Penn, John")
  Re: Harvest Ale, epoxy and polyamide resins. ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  Re: suggestions for dry yeast lag time (Paul Shick)
  Re: Joy of Brazing SS Advice ("John Palmer")
  Re:Lallemand Nottingham Yeast (Matthew Comstock)
  Re: 80 IBU HopDevil clone ("Jim Busch")
  Stunned in Centerport (AKA Clinitest) (Jim Bentson)
  Sugar in Wheeler and Protz Recipes (Jim Bentson)
  Polyclar (Peter Owings)
  good head (on a glass of homebrew!!!) (Clark)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 2000 MCAB Qualifiers: Boneyard Brew-Off 6/12/99
* (http://www.uiuc.edu/ro/BUZZ/contest5.html);  Buzz-Off! 
* Competition 6/26/99 (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:58:56 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: Good For You Brew


Greetings,

As some of you know, I've been promising for some time now to brew a 
"Good For You" beer, brewed with the Swedish "Good For You" Muesli 
available at Loblaw's and Ikea.  The ingredients were conducive to good 
beer, and I just couldn't resist the temptation of having a beer called 
"Good for You Brew" ;-)

Good For You Brew

625g	Swedish Good For You Muesli (Contains only rice, corn, wheat, 
	oats and honey)
2 kg	Hugh Baird Munich Malt
2 kg	Hugh Baird Vienna Malt
700g	Malted Wheat
6 kg	Canada Malting 2 Row

2.5 ounces Tettnanger  at  5.5 % (60 min)
0.5 ounces Hallertauer Hersbrucker (? % - will look it up) (15 min)
0.5 ounces Hallertauer Hersbrucker (? %) (5 min)
0.5 ounces Hallertauer Hersbrucker (? %) (0 min)

Mashed 25 minutes  at  151F, brought up to 154F and mashed 
another 40 minutes. Ranoff in 55 minutes.  Not sure of exact volume, 
but I think I collected about 50 litres, with an OG of 1.052.

I'll keep you all posted on progress.  

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
Alan McKay
OS Support			amckay at nortelnetworks.com
Small Site Integration	613-765-6843 (ESN 395)
Nortel Networks



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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:02:55 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Triple fermentation

Curious what people know about those famous "triple fermentations" used by
belgians.  Do they just pitch more fresh / healthy yeast after the primary
/ secondary fermentations, or do they rack the beer and add fresh / healthy
yeast?  Thinking of doing some strange, huge fermentations this summer just
for kicks.
nathan in madison, wi




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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:37:53 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Kraeusening,

Brewsters:

Steve Lacey asks about "kraeusening", the addition
of fermenting "young beer" which has just begun to
visibly ferment, to carbonate a finished one.

Steven Snyder in "The Brewmaster's Bible"
( a really excellent book, IMHO)  says:

"Rates for five gallons (US or about
19 - 20 liters for the rest of the world) equal
roughly 1.5 quarts ( US or a liter) of speise for
high OG beers(>1.060)
[i.e. the beer added for kraeusening - DRB]
 and three quarts ( liters) for lower OG beers (<1.030).
The amont of speise ( added fermenting beer -DRB)
needed, depending on the fermentability of the
malt you use, is listed below in quarts ( liters):

OG*     Speise Needed (quarts)
1.070   1.00-1.50
1.060   1.50-1.75
1.050   1.75- 2.00
1.040   2.00- 2.50
1.030   2.50 - 3.00
1.020   3.00 - 3.50

* OG of added fermenting young beer - DRB

from "The Brewmaster's Bible", Steven Snyder p 37
pub Harper Perennial 


You can also check out the HBD archives for
my directions on making a "Kraeusen" starter,
which is a lot more convenient and predictable
if you are not fermenting the same beer regularly.
Contact me directly if you have a problem.
- -------------------------------------
Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com

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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:57:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff)
Subject: upcoming trip to (0,0,0) Rennerian (ie. Ann Arbor, MI)


Hi All,

  I am going to be attending a course at the University of Michigan
in Ann Arbor during the week of July 5th through the 9th.

  I've already checked the online beer guides and turned up Arbor
Brewing, Grizzly Peak Brewing, and Ashley's.  Any advice from the
local HBD readers about these, or other places?

  What about locally produced bottled brews to take home?

  Private email is probably best.

                                                 Hoppy brewing,

                                                 Jeff

==========================================================================

Geoffrey A. McNally                  Phone:  (401) 832-1390
Mechanical Engineer                  Fax:    (401) 832-7250
Naval Undersea Warfare Center        email:
Systems Development Branch              mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Code 8321; Bldg. 1246/2              WWW:
Newport, RI  02841-1708                 http://www.nuwc.navy.mil/


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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:56:20 -0400
From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Thanks and No bubbles

   Thanks for the cleaning advice and sympathy on my explosive stout.

No bubbles in the airlock...   As for the post on a plastic fermenter that
did not bubble through the airlock... I also sent this note privately but
typically this just means that the seal on the lid, or more likely around
the airlock, is not tight.  I had this happen to me and proceeded to buy
another rubber grommet for my plastic lid.  When I got home I realized that
it wasn't the grommet itself, but the lack of seal between the grommet and
the S-shape airlock.  The bottom of the S airlock was straight while the 3
piece airlock was tapered.  I can push the 3 piece airlock deeper into the
grommet to make an airtight seal but the S-shape airlock is straight and
would not seal.  Fortunately this poster noticed that his beer had fermented
due to the change in gravity.  The foam/krausen is another sure sign of
fermentation.  I have since retired my plastic bucket in favor of glass
carboys but I worry about dropping one someday after reading all the posts
of carboy disasters.  In my case the plastic bucket was clearly infected
probably due to unseen scratches.  I'll keep you updated on my explosive
stout.  I got recommendations to just use 2 pkts. of Nottingham dry yeast
for most beers and 3 pkts of Nottingham for a strong beer.  I had previously
seen 1 pkt / gallon for barleywines so my 9% abv stout would probably need
3-5 pkts if I hadn't already made a 1.5 gallon starter from 1 pkt of dry
yeast.  The starter was extra insurance that I wouldn't have a long lag time
like others and myself have noticed of late with Danstar dry yeasts.
  John Penn
  Eldersburg MD


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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:00:08 +0930
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Harvest Ale, epoxy and polyamide resins.

First an answer-
Steve Jones asked about Lees "Harvest Ale", Michael Jackson                
 writes in his 1997 Pocket Beer Book that this respected                  
 brewery in Manchester (U.K.) is noteworthy for its strong               
 "Harvest Ale" ***-****, made each year from the new                     
 season's malt (Maris Otter,Yorkshire) and hops                        
 (Goldings,East Kent), and released in late November, with                  
     a vintage date. O.G. = 1120 & 11.5 ABV.
What was the vintage date on your bottle? Was it filtered?
and now a question-
I have just made a forked racking cane so that I can run                    
    2 sparge arms at once, the adhesive that I used was                     
   `Dextone' steel filled epoxy and contains epoxy and                      
   polyamide resins, is this adhesive going to poison me if                 
       I sparge with this glued cane? 
Thanks, Thomas.
p.s. that Mikey Jackson fella dropped into Adelaide 
South Australia this week and didn't even say g'day! SNOB



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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:03:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Re: suggestions for dry yeast lag time

 


Hello all,

	James McCrorie and Nate Lansing have suggested solutions
to the Great Dry Yeast Lag Time quandry.  James suggests adding
yeast nutrients to the water used for rehydration, an idea I've
never considered.  Nate says that aerating the chilled wort is 
what's slowing things down, and suggests a quick experiment to
see.  I'm quite intrigued by Nate's idea, because it runs contrary
to what little I know of yeast life cycles (mostly from reading
Tracy Aquilla's BT article.)  My impression was that a large yeast 
mass would scarf up 8-10ppm of O2 in a few hours and emerge in
much healthier condition than with only 2-3ppm O2 (where the 
larger dissolved O2 level comes from pure O2 aeration, the smaller
just from the runoff into the carboys.)  Nate, can you explain your
reasoning a bit more clearly?  Or if anyone else has a nice explanation
for these phenomena, I'd enjoy reading it.  Thanks again to James and
Nate.  It sounds like I need to do a lot more brewing when I get back 
into town in two weeks, to test both of these ideas.


   			Paul Shick 
 			Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH

 



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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:19:13 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re: Joy of Brazing SS Advice

Joy Hansen had some good comments and advice that I would like to comment
on:

>The silver solder must be food grade!  I guess this means that there's no
>lead, cadmium, or chromium.
Right, no lead or cadmium. (No chromium in silver solder) Look for Plumbing
Solder.

>To continue, SS warps badly when heated, to say the least.  If the problem
>with heating SS greater than 800 degrees is that the trace elements
migrate,
The carbon (in this alloy, an impurity) forms chromium carbides, taking the
chromium out of solution, making the alloy low chromium/non-stainless in
localized areas.

>then, no amount of acid pacification can solve the problem?  
Bingo.

>The entire piece must be tempered in an oven/furnace at the proper
temperature.
 >At least, this is what I understand from my readings of class material
and
>"Brewing Techniques". 
This probably came from my article, but it is not practical. To
re-solutionize everthing, you would have to totally anneal the vessel in an
argon atmosphere or vacuum furnace at 2000F for about 15 minutes, cool it
rapidly and watch out for distortion.

>I guess that this means that the temperature of the
>project must be raised slowly, yet prevent oxidation that will prevent the
>joining of the stainless steel.  Afterall,  the purpose of the oxide
surface
>that forms is to prevent joining with anything!
Not quite. To solder or braze stainless (300 series) you want to localize
your heat (fairly easy since stainless has such piss-poor thermal
conductivity) and heat and cool it Fast. I mean that you want to have the
time at high temperatures at a minimum to prevent sensitization (migrating
trace elements). The critical bad temperature range is 1200-1600F. The flux
is what will protect the bare surface from oxides during the solder/braze,
and as you say, oxidation of the surface will cause non-wetting of the
solder (balls up).

>It is possible to use SMAW with special rods, and MIG.  Neither is
practical
>for the thin material involved in kettles.  
I agree, although MIG comes close (skill involved).

>The backside of any weld must be protected from air.  
Often accomplished by a purge gas (argon) on the backside. But not strictly
necessary. My welds (TIG) were done without backside purge and they are
fine - because I ground off the oxidation to clean metal and then scoured
it with oxalic acid cleanser to get rid of free iron. Pretty easy to do
really.

>AC has an unstable arc that causes failure in my
attempts to weld.  Lots of holes.  So, I just bought a DC unit that is
modified for TIG touch start.  Not much better than the AC so far.  The
>touch start contaminates the electrode and causes the arc to destabilize!
The recommended setup for TIG of (300 series) Stainless Steel is DCEN or DC
Electrode Negative (ie. Straight Polarity). Touch Start is not recommended
because of electrode contamination. Use a lump of tungsten (or spare
tungsten electrode clamped to ground) as your start block if you must. High
frequency starts are recommended.

>So much for welding aluminum gum wrappers together.  However, I've read
that
TIG is the only practical way to join SS.  However, BURP club member
>experiences with silver soldering fittings on Sanke kegs has worked out
just fine.
Yep.

>So, what advice can I give you?   I've tried to point out that joining
metals is craft learned over many years of practice and experience.  Unless
you are retired, as I am, and have lots of spare time to tinker, take your
connection projects to a competent craftsman or a club member experienced
and successful at joining SS.  My fittings were TIG joined by a welder
retiree working from his garage.  $5 a fitting for perfection!  If I ever
>find success with welding SS, each weld will cost $500!
Ditto.
See yesterdays HBD (3054) for links to my articles on my web page.

John Palmer - former International Space Station welding engineer.



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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:Lallemand Nottingham Yeast

In HBD#3054, James McCrorie
<James at craftbrewing.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

"Scientific analysis here in UK has established that
Lallemand dried Nottingham Yeast is deficient of
natural nutrients.  Lallemand (UK)have confirmed this
and say they are working on the problem.  The advice
is to use a good quality yeast nutrient at the
rehydration stage."

I like using Nottingham dry, and I have had several
quick starts using it.  However, I have had one slow
start.  The inconsistency bothers me more than a lack
of nutrients.  Does Lallemand have an explanation for
inconsistency, rather than a band-aid?

By the way yeast nutrient often contains DAP, or
ammonium hydrogen phosphate, (NH4)2HPO4.  If your
recipe calls for gypsum, CaSO4xH2O, this will
precipitate as Ca3(PO4)2 and change your recipe. 
Sorry.

Matt Comstock in Cincinnati
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:40:35 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: Re: 80 IBU HopDevil clone

Rick writes:

> "Bittersweet success or a Victory of my own"  with an IBU of 80
> something and claiming to have come close to Victory's Hop Devil
> and no one even raised an eyebrow. Am I that well respected that
> everyone just wrote down the reciepe with complete acceptance?

I did not go back and calculate your recipe for expected IBUs but 
when someone writes they made a beer with "80-100" BUs, I usually 
just ignore it since we all know that IBUs can only be measured after 
the fact.  I suspect your utilization or alpha acid content of the 
hops are not as expected, or you like even hoppier beers than 
HopDevil!  For the record, our own AJ did an analysis on HopDevil and 
came up with a measured IBU of 63.

> By the way the beer is now 2 months old and just wonderfull.

Glad to hear it, you are now ready to clone Old Horizontal Barley 
Wine, take your HopDevil recipe and brew it to an OG of around 26P.
Harvest the slurry from a HopDevil clone and pitch the slurry into 
the Horzy clone.  Should be perfect by the time our temps fall below 
70F again....

Cheers!

Jim Busch


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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:59:57 -0400
From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at longisland.com>
Subject: Stunned in Centerport (AKA Clinitest)

Am I dreaming or are the detrimental effects of drinking my famous "Cat
Vomit Steam Beer" finally appearing after one year?

I am of course referring to the fact that Rob Moline asked Siebel about
Clinitest and Joe Powers gave what I take to be a strong endorsement. I am
reposting part of Joe Powers post which includes Rob's question


Rob Wrote:

ON THE USE OF CLINITEST SUGAR DETERMINATION KIT - WAS THIS A LEADING 
QUESTION?  I KNOW LALLEMAND USES THE TEST ON ALL OF THEIR  YEAST AND I AM
THANKFUL TO THEM FOR  SHARING THEIR APPLICATION.

Joe Powers  of Siebel answered:

WE PROMOTE THE CLINITEST WHEREVER AND WHENEVER WE CAN.  THE CLINITEST IS A
QUICK, SIMPLE AND INEXPENSIVE MEASURE OF "REDUCING SUGAR" AVAILABLE FOR
DIABETICS AT LARGER DRUG STORES.  REDUCING SUGAR MEASURE IN BREWING
ORIGINATED IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY AND CONTINUES TO BE USED INTO THE
TWENTY-FIRST CENTURE.  THE TEST, THOUGH, DOES REQUIRE SOME INTERPRETATION
OF THE RESULTS.  ..........


What I am STUNNED about is not a single mention about this post as of the
June 7th HBD.

Since no one else will say it, I will. Congratulations to Dave Burley, it
seems that you were right in promoting Clinitest as a useful indicator of
finished fermentation despite the severe pounding you took for maintaining
that view. Anyone interested should read Joe's full post in HBD #3039 (May
25) to get the details on how to interpret the results.

Again I congratulate Dave for his perseverance. I for one will certainly
try Clinitest when I start brewing again in the Fall.

Jim Bentson
Centerport NY





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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:46:37 -0400
From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at longisland.com>
Subject: Sugar in Wheeler and Protz Recipes

Recently Jon Rusko asked the following:

"I recently bought the book "Brew Your Own British Real Ale; Recipes for More
Than 100 Brand-Name Real Ales" by Wheeler and Prost and I had a question
regarding the ingredients of the recipes listed. I noticed that many, if not
most, of the recipes call for the addition of "white sugar". There is no
mention of "white sugar" in the ingredient explanation in the front of the
book and was wondering if this white sugar could be recipe substitution for
some other type of sugar or a even misnomer? "

Jon: Wheeler & Protz's other book "Brew Classic European Beers " is
clearer. They state that when the refer to white sugar they mean plain
ordinary everyday white household sugar (sucrose).

 As to cidery tastes due to sugar, W & P state : "It seems likely that the
enzyme invertase, secreted by yeast to invert sucrose,  is capable of
producing hangovers and can , perhaps be tasted. Some authorities, however
dispute this."

They go on to explain that many famous beers are brewed with sugar and in
some cases the sugar is justified on more than economic grounds. A strong
beer such as an old ale, may be too sweet and cloying on the palate if it
was an all malt recipe, and the use of some sucrose or glucose would
lighten the palate. They also point out that another consideration is that
some brewers in southern climes do not have ready access to low nitrogen
malt and they use the sugar to dilute the nitrogen.

I have used a number of W&P's recipes and have not noticed any problems
with the sugar addition

Jim Bentson 
Centerport NY
 
 




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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:42:52 -0400
From: Peter Owings <peteo1 at mindspring.com>
Subject: Polyclar

I'd like to get some info on the use of Polyclar. I've done some research
and have found various amounts and techniques used. I'd like some practical
information before I put "plastic" in my beer!
Beer Man
peteo1 at mindspring.com
"Remember kids...Duck and cover!"












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Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:36:06 -0400
From: Clark <clark at capital.net>
Subject: good head (on a glass of homebrew!!!)

Hi list,

Here's one to raise a few blood pressures.  Is there any practical benefit
to having a thick creamy head on a glass of beer??  I poured a dunkel last
week and it took four or five minutes for the foam to subside enough where
I could get the whole bottle in the glass.  It tasted great.  I poured a
pilsner a couple days ago and there was virtually no head at all.  Instant
gratification and it also tasted great.  I can see where a thick head can
make it easier to flick the occasional fly or other bug out of your glass,
but other than that what is the use of a big head, or is this part of the
"art of brewing".  I think I smell smoke.  Gotta run.

Dave Clark




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---