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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Large Batches (ferguson ct 71078)
  Cornelius Kegs and Fittings (Mike Fertsch)
  Reasonable facsimile of a Samuel Adams? (CSC-F-JOBERR)
  Yeast Starters (Norm Hardy)
  Sanitation (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
  Re: first-timer wants help w/light ginger-ale (Chris Shenton)
  bursting digests (rdg)
  Temperature drop. (boubez)
  Sanitizing & Bottles (rdg)
  acquiring empty bottles (Scott Renner)
  M - F Homebrew Tape (Martin A. Lodahl)
  sanitizing once more (florianb)
  Labels (Norm Hardy)
  Prodigy (Norm Hardy)
  Re: Re: First-timer wants help with light ginger-ale (Dr. T. Andrews)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 89 11:51:21 EST
From: ferguson%X102C at HARRIS-ATD.COM (ferguson ct 71078)
Subject: Large Batches


>I see a discussion of large (31 gallon ==> 110 litre) batches, and
>as someone most cogently remark 'you have to cool it afterwards'.
>The biggest batch I ever attempted was 10 imperial gallons, 45 litres.
>I lost that batch because:
>
>1) I couldn't cool it quickly
>
>2) I couldn't move the batch! 45 litres x 1.060 = 47.7kg +  container
>   - for non-metric people, 105 lbs.

I brew 10 gallon batches all the time using extracts.  You don't boil
all the wort, just the extract and enough water to keep it soupy.
That keeps the brewpot from getting too heavy.  Then dilute the wort
to initial sg in the fermenter.  I use two 5 gal. carboys so they
won't get too heavy either.  Nevertheless, a 5 gal. carboy is still
heavy and a 2-1/2 gal. brewpot is troublesome when hot.  

Perhaps an all-grain brewer could do the same for large batches ---
boil and chill a concentrated wort then dilute to desired sg in the
fermenter. 

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 08:41 EST
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Cornelius Kegs and Fittings

Steve Harris asks -

> As I recall, somebody said that there are two styles of Cornelius keg taps
> (is that the right term? -- the gizmos to which you attach the gas-input
> and beer-output hoses).  Somebody please correct or expand on these
> remarks as I don't want to mislead any other novices. 

"Somebody" is right.  Cornelius makes "pin-type" fittings and "ball-type"
fittings.  Pin type fittings have three little radial pins on the liquid
connection, and two pins on the gas fitting.  I don't really know how to tell
the gender on ball-type kegs - I don't have any. 

Locally, Pepsi uses pin type, and Coke uses ball type  (Or is it the other way
around?)  Make sure you get the right kind of keg to match your hardware.  Keg
gender-change kits can be purchased for around $10-$15, but I perfer to get
the right keg in the first place - my shop carries both kinds. 

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 09:50 EST
From: CSC-F-JOBERR <HALLMAN%NIEHS.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Reasonable facsimile of a Samuel Adams?

Greetings y'all:

Does anyone out there have a good recipe that emulates a Samuel Adams Lager.
I'm interested in a malt extract recipe.  Any clues?  Thanks.

                                        L. Eric Hallman
                                        HALLMAN at NIEHS

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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 89 18:41:38 PST
From: polstra!norm at hplabs.HP.COM (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Yeast Starters

Rehydrating the dry yeast in 90 degree water for 20 to 60 minutes seems to work
the best.  Then, when pitching, just pour the liquid into the primary.  If you
are using a carboy for the primary, then put a clean cork on the top and shake,
rattle, or roll the carboy to mix everything up.  No spoon is needed.  Since
aeration is necessary to reoxygenate the wort after boiling, you are killing 
two birds with one stone.
Lately, though, I have just been using liquid yeast, from WYeast.  I am forced
to make a starter just to build up the amount of yeast.  I would like to hear 
how other people are doing it.

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 08:51:14 MST
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Subject: Sanitation

> Check it out, Doug.  Pitch your next batch with your bare hands, then
> ferment and bottle as usual.  Drink one bottle every week.  When you
> can taste the infection, compare the elapsed time to your normal shelf
> life.

Sorry, no can doo. My MDR (Minimum Daily Requirement) is one bottle per
day: my beer's shelf life is measured in weeks, not months. :-}.

I _can_, however, pitch my next batch with my bare hands if you still want
me too. :-} :-}

--Doug

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 11:26:53 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: first-timer wants help w/light ginger-ale

kipps at etoile.ICS.UCI.EDU writes:
> I've never heard of such a recipe, but I have an idea.  There's a soda
> extract (available from most homebrew suppliers) called Ginger Beer.

I've made this and it's pretty good! Next time, I'd try using honey instead of
sugar, and adding some grated fresh ginger for a real kick. 

> If made according to the instructions (with sugar and champange yeast), it
> has an alcohol content of less than 1/2 percent; a lot lower than what you
> want.

The reason it has no alcohol is that you don't ferment! Just boil, cool, and
bottle; you have to let it carbonate for a week or two. I imagine if you *did*
let it ferment, you'd have a pretty potent brew, with all the sugar the extract
calls for; it would probably be pretty dry (yeast would eat the sugar), and
have the same sour offtaste that extract recipes give you when you use sugar
instead of extra extract.

>  What would happen if you added this extract to a low-hopped malt
> base?  For a 5 gallon batch, I'd try something like 5 lbs. of an American
> light (dry) and 1 1/2 oz. Cascade hops (1 oz. for boil; 1/2 oz. for
> aroma).  If you added the extract (and maybe some cloves and cinnamon) at
> the end of the boil, I'd think this might give you a brew with all the
> flavor of ginger beer and an alcohol content of 3 to 4 percent.  Actually,
> I think I might try this myself.

Yow! That does sound good. Let me know how it turns out!

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 10:36:40 MST
From: rdg at hpfcmi
Subject: bursting digests
Full-Name: 	Rob Gardner	

> > Subject: Problem with digest format -- cannot burst reliably.
> > 	<text of message>
> > 	--
> > 	<your signature here>

> I think this should be fixed now. I change any leading '--' to '- '.
> - ----------------------------

Oooops!! I guess I should have tested that first. I think it's in the right
place now. 

Rob

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 12:37:16 EST
From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
Subject: Temperature drop.

My batch has been fermenting for 6 days now, and was still active last
night. Our heating broke down last night and the temperature in the
apartment dove down to below 58 (the lowest reading my thermometer
has). This went on throught the night and this morning the fermentation
was quiet. Should I bottle as planned this week-end, or wait for the temp.
to go back up when we get our heat back and take specific gravity readings
if the fermentation gets re-activated? Also, what effect will this have on the
taste? Thanks.

toufic

		Toufic Boubez
		boubez at caip.rutgers.edu

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 10:54:04 MST
From: rdg at hpfcmi
Subject: Sanitizing & Bottles
Full-Name: 	Rob Gardner	

> The other point I want to make is that, according to Papazian' book,  (I
> don't have the book here, but I think I remember correctly) the homebrewing
> equipment does not need to be STERILIZED, only SANITIZED, to give your yeast
> an edge over the competition. I think that he also says that a lot of the
> commercial breweries don't sterilize either, they just sanitize, but I'm not 
> sure about this. Well, this is all. What do more experienced brewers think?

The reason for being satisfied with just sanitizing is that sterilization is
close to impossible. You need to boil an object under pressure for quite a
while to realy "sterilize" it, and that is just not possible to do your entire
brewing environment. 

> Where can I get empty bottles?  My friends are just about tapped out
> and when I go to bars and ask them, they just look at me funny.

You should be able to go to any liquor store that sells beer in deposit
bottles, and ask to buy some empties, which should be about $1.25/case. If you
local store doesn't have any, try a sleazier part of town. Or, check garbage
bins at hotels for Champagne bottles. 

If you really, really, truly cannot find any bottles, there are places that
sell brand new, perfect, clean beer bottles. But, the cost is outrageous-
$8/case, plus shipping, which may be more than that, depending on where you
live. I'd buy some sort of kegging system before doing something desperate
like this. 

Rob

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 18:05:35 -0600
From: Scott Renner <renner at cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: acquiring empty bottles

I have never had any trouble with this.  The liquor stores in town sell much
beer in return-deposit bottles.  When somebody brings back a case of empties,
the store gives them $1.50.  The store is happy to let me have as many cases
of these empties as I want, for the same $1.50. 

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 16:08:15 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!mal at hplabs.HP.COM>
Subject: M - F Homebrew Tape

My long-suffering spouse brought me a tape from the library a couple of days
ago:  a Munton & Fison "how-to" on homebrewing!  Has anyone seen this?  It's a
real HOOT!  I shudder to think what brew made using no other source of info
would taste like.  I suspect M & F's canned kits are probably higher-profit
items than bulk malt, as they presented the choice between whole-grain and
extract brewing in a light that clearly favored extract.  Plain white
granualated sugar was liberally dumped in each of the batches they
demonstrated, and when the specific gravity was measured, the sample was
dumped back into the brew, inviting infection (I always drink mine, and learn
more about how the process is progressing).  Their approach to recipes,
styles, and the different gravities for those styles was astonishing in its
simplicity, and overlooked a great deal.  I could go on ... 

There was also an interesting sequence where they followed a large-scale
commercial brewery through the process, ending with a scene showing an
aluminum keg rolling across a concrete floor, as the announcer intoned that
the final product was another keg "of REAL beer".  CAMRA has clearly touched a
sore spot. 

I doubt that it was as much as an hour long, and it's guaranteed to make every
reader of this group feel they could brew better beer than the filmmakers
could, with less investment in equipment, even on their worst days (though
come to think of it, as the equipment all had its labels prominently
displayed, it could be that its selection was not primarily dictated by
function).  Good viewing for homebrew club meetings. 

						- Martin

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= pacbell!pbmoss!mal  -or-  mal at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM      916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =

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Date: 17 Nov 89 17:33:18 PST (Fri)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: sanitizing once more

Toufic Boubez writes:

"I am a newcomer to homebrewing, but I have a few comments about
this. I am now in the process of waiting for my FIRST batch to complete
its fermentation. When I first started, I cleaned the plastic fermenter with
some white powder that the lady at the store recommended (ingredient:
active oxygen). I rinsed it properly (I think) and I filled it with 1/2 gallon
more water that I should have.
I then removed that extra 1/2 gallon (using a sanitized cup, of course :-)).
Everything else went according to plan. BTW, I used bottled spring water.
Yesterday, I tasted some of that water, and it has a horrible, bitter after
taste."

The subject of sanitizing could well be one of the most talked about in
homebrew digest.  Of all the responses I've read, it seems that a mild
solution of common plain bleach is the favorite of homebrewers.  I use one
half capful per gallon, which is about one teaspoon per gallon of warm water. 
I also rinse everything with the sprayer part of my sink using the hot water
tap.  I reason that if the water was sitting in the hot water heater at 130
degrees, there couldn't be much bacteria left in it to matter.  I have never
had a detectable problem.  I don't see any reason to mess around with odd
cleansing or sanitizing agents which could leave off flavors in the beer. 

Someone commented on a show on PBS about a guy pitching yeast with his bare
hands.  Recently, my brother-in-law visited the Sam Smith's brewery in
England.  The tour guide picked up a handful of the yeast crusties on the side
of the (open) fermentation vat, showed it to the guests, and pitched it back
in after talking about it and rubbing it in his hands.  I guess I agree with
"Suurb" in that if the brew is consumed rather quickly, sanitation is rarely a
problem anyway.  I'd say it's a problem with long storage in rare cases also. 
For all the hubub that appears in the homebrew books about sanitization, I
think it's all blown out of proportion.  I certainly don't lose any sleep over
it. 

[Florian Bell -- on my way home to drink some "pretty good" beer.]

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 17:49:21 PST
From: polstra!norm at hplabs.HP.COM (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Labels

The method I use for labelling my beer is to buy the little round stick-on
sheets available at any stationary store.  They fit perfectly on the bottle
caps and allow me to identify the brew by number or name or both.  They're
cheap and they work.  When I was new to brewing I used to make fancy labels
with computer software and printer.  I just don't make time for that anymore. 
What's inside the bottle is more important anyway. 

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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 19:40:56 PST
From: polstra!norm at hplabs.HP.COM (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Prodigy

Hello Rob, yes I am the Norm Hardy who tries to be active on Prodigy, but
quite frankly, I am tired of wading through wine trying to find beer postings.
I don't think there is much interest in homebrewing on Prodigy.  This is my
3rd day on this bulletin board, and so far I like what I read.  As I learn the
ropes I'll be better able to send E-mail properly. 

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Date: Sun, 19 Nov 89 9:06:49 EST
From: Dr. T. Andrews <ki4pv!tanner at uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Re: Re: First-timer wants help with light ginger-ale

) [ suggestion to buy ginger-beer extract & add to light wort ]

I would expect that you'd do as well or better to add grated ginger root to
the end of your boil.  Give it about 15 minutes, if my experience is any
guide.  Add cloves if you must; I don't think that the flavour would be
enhanced much by them. 
- -- 
...!bikini.cis.ufl.edu!ki4pv!tanner
or...  {allegra attctc bpa gatech!uflorida uunet!cdin-1}!ki4pv!tanner

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #306, 11/20/89

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