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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Cranberry Beer (Tim Phillips)
  contamination is relative (Dick Dunn)
  full boil (iwtio!korz)
  Priming timing problems ? (Kenneth Kron)
  Re: Belgian Beers (Martin A. Lodahl)
  "Short" Fermentation? (Martin A. Lodahl)
  mead (Ed Falk)
  Re: Sanitation and water (follow-up) (doug)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 08:06:37 PST
From: tcp at esl.ESL.COM (Tim Phillips)
Subject: Cranberry Beer

In an effort to brew something creative for the holiday season, I took
one of Papazian's recipes that called for 10 lbs of sour cherries and
substituted 6 lbs of cranberries.  The yeast looked happy when I re-
hydrated it, and since I had pre-chilled my bottled water I was able
to get the wort, cranberries, and additional water to 68 degrees for
pitching almost immediately (which I did).  The problem is, the yeasties
are not doing their thing.  No activity.

Does anyone have any experience with cranberries?  I suspect either a
problem with pH (are cranberries too acidic--more so than sour cherries?),
or a problem with the cranberries containing some kind of natural yeast
inhibitor.  Any suggestions?  Everything still smells fine (!), but I
need to get something going before the stray bacteria realize they have
five gallons of wort all to themselves!  Thanks!

-Tim Phillips

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Date: 20 Nov 89 09:15:50 MST (Mon)
From: hplabs!gatech!raven!rcd (Dick Dunn)
Subject: contamination is relative

Talking about being surprised by the clip of someone pitching yeast with
his bare hands...

Keep in mind that we aren't starting with sterile conditions anyway, and
that the main idea is to give the yeast the upper hand in the wort.  The
bacteria on your hands is likely to be a small amount relative to a double-
handful of yeast.  That's a LOT of yeast; you can't really duplicate that
relative amount of contact with the normal homebrewer-sized 12 g or 2x7 g
package(s).

Also, the environment of a brewery is a lot different from the environment
of your kitchen...the main microorganisms in the air will be different.

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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 10:38:07 mst
From: att!iwtio!korz at hplabs.HP.COM
Subject: full boil

In Digest #306, ferguson writes:
>I brew 10 gallon batches all the time using extracts.  You don't boil
>all the wort, just the extract and enough water to keep it soupy.

>Perhaps an all-grain brewer could do the same for large batches ---
>boil and chill a concentrated wort then dilute to desired sg in the
>fermenter. 

I'm afraid you've missed one important issue in extract brewing and two for
all-grain: utilization.  Hop utilization is much higher for a full boil than
for a partial.  The same holds true for how much fermentable material you will
get from your grain -- the lower the boil sg, the more fermentables you will
extract. 

Al.

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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 09:50:35 PST
From: kron at Sun.COM (Kenneth Kron)
Subject: Priming timing problems ?

Background: When I prime I usually put 3/4 cups of sugar/5 gallons into
some warm water and pour this directly into my fermenter.  I then slosh
it around some and let it sit for 20 min. then go ahead and bottle.  And
I have gotten very good results so far.

Problem:  What I did this time (it was a rough day) was add *dry* sugar
to the carboy and when I got done bottling, I noticed the quantity of
sugar in the bottom of the carboy which led me to remember the step I
left out.  So I decided to leave the beer in the bottles and see what
happened.  Well what happened is, it's been a little over a week and I
opened a bottle and while it had some carbonation it was pretty flat.
So I don't know if should I uncap all the bottles run around and add
sugar to them all or "relax and ..." (which I'm almost out of!!!) or
what.  I am going to save this beer (even though it was flat I could
tell it had promise!) but I'm wondering what ideas the list has on this???

BTW  I have a keg which will be free on Dec. 9. 

Kenneth Kron

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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 13:11:19 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!mal at hplabs.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: Belgian Beers

In HOMEBREW Digest #301, Joe asked:

"I tried a few Belgian beers recently (orval & bios)
The taste is quite different from most other beer.  Looking through
CJOH I gathered that there is a special type of fermentation process...
	...  Is a special yeast used (of course)
and can it be cultured from the bottle?"

In HOMEBREW Digest #302, Al replied:

"	...  Traditionally, Trappist Monks made Belgian Lambics and
used wild yeasts (which apparently also carried in lactobaccillus).
They didn't pitch yeast - they just left the fermentation vessels
open to the air and waited for something to float in and take hold.
I wouldn't recommend this proceedure. "

And now, to add to the confusion, I'll toss in my $0.02.  It's my
understanding that Trappist Ales and Lambics are two distinct styles.  The
open-air "pitching" method applies to lambics, and only seems to work in a
very small geographic area blessed with the right blend of breeze-borne wild
yeasts and bacteria.  The Trappist ales are pitched using methods more like
what we're accustomed to, but with very different yeasts, resulting in the
intense spiciness most seem to either love or hate.  Dave Miller in CHBoHB
gives a recipe for Trappist ale that is utterly unremarkable, except for its
recommendation of pitching with yeast cultured from a Chimay bottle. I haven't
tried this yet (give me a break!  I'm not finished fooling around with stouts
& porters, then there's the IPA in the spring, and the barleywine, and ...),
but there's definitely enough sludge in the bottom of the average Chimay
bottle to make this a plausible suggestion, if the yeast hasn't died in
transit & storage. Experimenting with this could be very pleasant indeed ... 

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= pacbell!pbmoss!mal  -or-  mal at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM      916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =

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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 13:45:04 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!mal at hplabs.HP.COM>
Subject: "Short" Fermentation?

In HOMEBREW Digest #306, Toufic Boubez asks:

"My batch has been fermenting for 6 days now, and was still active last
night. Our heating broke down last night and the temperature in the
apartment dove down to below 58 (the lowest reading my thermometer
has). This went on throught the night and this morning the fermentation
was quiet. Should I bottle as planned this week-end, or wait for the temp.
to go back up when we get our heat back and take specific gravity readings
if the fermentation gets re-activated? Also, what effect will this have on the
taste? Thanks."

My first batch was a tale of one panic attack after another, and I stampeded
myself into many hasty (and regrettable) decisions, but still ended up with
drinkable beer.  One of these decisions was to bottle after less than a week
in the fermenter, never above 60F and dipping below 40F each night, from the
mistaken concern that autolysis was just around the corner.  The recipe was
for Brown Ale, and called for 3/4 cup corn sugar for priming (too much for
this style), but there was probably enough unfermented sugar left in the beer
to provide adequate carbonation without it!  The taste was very sweet, but the
bottles didn't explode. 

The point! ------->  Don't be in a hurry.  If it's only been there 6 days, it
could probably stand another week, unless your apartment is normally very warm
indeed.  It's a very resilient process.  If you decide to wait, you might try
"rousing" the yeast by rocking the fermenter back & forth (easiest and safest
with a plastic carboy), which will sometimes restart fermentation.  It's easy
to be misled by the appearance of the ferment:  recent postings in this digest
have discussed bubbling long after the gravity stopped changing, and I've had
the experience of racking beer I thought had stopped fermenting, only to find
that it was still chugging along in the bottom 8 inches of the carboy.  When
in doubt, don't just do something; stand there! 

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= pacbell!pbmoss!mal  -or-  mal at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM      916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =

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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 13:24:42 PST
From: falk at Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Subject: mead

I started my first batch of mead Saturday morning, my recipe is
	4 lb Honey + water to make 1 gallon
	juice of 4 oranges
	2 tsp yeast nutrient
	1 tsp pectin enzyme
	wine yeast

Within hours, some horrible-looking matter had precipitated out of the
wort; I assume that something reacted with the orange juice but I'm
not sure.  After about 24 hours, the precipitate had settled to the
bottom of the jug and what's on top looks like I'd expected.

Does this sound normal, or have I made some horrible mistake?
     -ed falk, sun microsystems
	sun!falk
	falk at corp.sun.com

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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 89 16:37:08 EST
From: hisata!doug at gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Sanitation and water (follow-up)

I've received some excellent suggestions, both in this newsletter and via
e-mail, regarding my sour, gushing beer.  I had posted some rather ridiculous
advice my friend Robert gave me regarding sanitation.  Please remember three
things:  1) Robert works in a microbiology lab where such procedures are
routine; 2) I was desperate because I was tired of this repeated problem; 3)
Robert is, um, more particular than most of us would be about most things. 

Rergarding alternatives to dry package yeast:  A pure culture is ideal. Liquid
cultures sound like a good bet, but where do you get them?  The "yeast" issue
of "Zymurgy" indicates that, at 68 degrees, 90% of the yeast is dead in two
week if sold in a foil pack, and 90% is dead in three months if stored in a
plastic tube.  Recommendations for reliable--and quick!-- sources?  (I'd still
like to try culturing my own yeast.  I'd also like to grow my own barley and
hops.  :-)  I'd also like to be independently wealthy so I wouldn't have to
work for a living! :-))) 

The suggestion of an errant mold slipping into the equipment is an excellent
one that I hadn't thought of.  Indeed, here in the South, it was an awfully
humid summer.  We had mold growing on our books, boots, and even the painted
front door.  My sinuses ran heavily, even on a rainy day when all the pollen
is scrubbed from the air, because mold spores were flying.  So this is a very
real possibility, and may explain why this has been a repeated problem for me.
 (And yes, I replaced my siphon hoses.  I'll try ANYTHING to fix this
problem.) 

Thanks again to everyone for suggestions.  And please pass on ideas for a
better yeast culture! 

Doug
UUCP: ...!gatech!hisata!doug

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #307, 11/21/89

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