---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  regarding Ommegang yeast (jim williams)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  degermination? ("Keith Menefy")
  Wild Heather Ale and other info ("Campbell, Paul SSI-TSEA-A")
  AHA Convention (Mark Tumarkin)
  Hennepin (William Solomon)
  Re: Rusting Stainless (RobertJ)
  BrewCraft? ("Houseman, David L")
  Clinitest: progress report (Dave Burley)
  Motorizing PhilMill (hdowda)
  rustin' mailbox (Jason.Gorman)
  Good Spots in Long Beach (CA)? ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  Rusting Stainless Steel, Ommegang Yeast ("Timmons, Frank")
  Itallian Food & Italian Beer (Ted McIrvine)
  10 Gallon batch mashmixer. (Michael Kowalczyk)
  A Collectors Dream ("Victor")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 2000 MCAB Qualifier: Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99 
* (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:32:28 -0800
From: jim williams <jim&amy at macol.net>
Subject: regarding Ommegang yeast

This is totally from my memory, but for what it's worth, I seem to
remember hearing somewhere, the brewer quoting that the yeast in the
bottle would in fact be good for homebrewing.
jim



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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:33:54 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report
Nate writes well on dry yeast, but his oxygenation statement befuddled
me...So I asked the guru...

>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:50:47 -0400
>From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
>Subject: dry yeast lag times
>I'll give this a go. The Pasteur effect is when yeast postpone
>fermentation
> in the presence of oxygen. The dry yeast is usually pitched at high
>enough
>cell counts that they do not need to replicate to come to fermentation
>cell counts so there is no need for oxygen to produce sterols. So if you
>pitch
>dry yeast to an aerated wort the yeast _may_ wait for the O2 levels to
>drop
>before they start fermentation. The bubbling you see when you rehydrate
>dry yeast is not fermentation, it is oxygen being release that is
>naturally
>trapped in the cells during freeze-drying. Dry yeast come with their own
>oxygen supply, no need to add more.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From Clayton Cone...
The role of oxygen in fermentation is not a simple subject to discuss.
Repitched yeast desperately needs oxygen early in the fermentation. It has
depleted its lipid content during the previous fermentation and needs oxygen
to produce more lipids so that it can begin to multiply again. Lipids act as
a growth factor during the growth phase and then protects the yeast from
alcohol toxicity during the latter part of the fermentation.

Active Dry Beer Yeast  has a large supply of lipids built into each yeast
cell at the factory. There should be enough to get the cells through their
growth phase in the wort.  However, it is questionable if there is enough
lipids left to protect the cell against the alcohol toxicity later in the
fermentation. There has not been enough research directed specifically at
this area. If a large inoculum is used chances are that there will be enough
lipids left in each cell to protect the cell. If a small inoculum is used
and the yeast has to multiply more, there may not be enough lipids left
especially for higher alcohol beer. A low alcohol beer would be less toxic
while a higher alcohol beer would be more toxic.

One saturation of oxygen (8 ppm) for low alcohol beer and two saturations
(16 ppm) of oxygen for high alcohol beer will always be good insurance. The
ideal time to add the oxygen for repitched yeast is at the very beginning.
The ideal time to add the oxygen for Active Dry Beer Yeast is after about
the 14th hour for Ale and 24th hour for Lager.  This is usually not
practical, so oxygen at the very beginning will be satisfactory.

The Active Dry Yeast will go through its lag phase and begin growth and
fermentation no matter how much oxygen is present in the wort because of the
Crabtree Effect.  When the sugar in a wort is above 0.2 %, the mitochondria
bodies are effected in such a way that the yeast will produce alcohol no
matter how much oxygen is present. The only growth that will occur is from
the lipids produced. In the manufacture of the yeast at our factory, the
sugar source has to be fed to the growing yeast at a rate that  will keep
the sugar below 0.2%. When we wish to activate and build into the yeast
certain fermentation enzymes, we increase the sugar level to slightly above
0.2% and the yeast will immediately begin to produce alcohol even though
huge volumes of air is bubbling through the media. The yeast will continue
to
grow while producing the alcohol because of the lipids already present in
the cell wall.

The simplest way to rehydrate the Active Dry Beer Yeast is in warm, 105 F.
tap water. Usually tap water contains some degree of hardness.   We have
found that distilled water and deionized water are harmful to the yeast
resulting in many dead cells.  Probably, because of osmotic pressure
differences, an unregulated amount of water will flow into the yeast cell
rupturing some of the organelles.   Rehydrating at 105 F. water containing
sugar is also harmful. Some enzymes are activated by the sugar and
subsequently damaged by the temperature.

Because of the salts present in many yeast foods, it is not advisable to add
the yeast food to the rehydrating yeast. Reverse osmosis from the yeast cell
to the rehydrating water  can occur. The yeast food should be added directly
to the wort. Fermaid K is designed specifically for this.

It is surprising how much of the nitrogen, required by the yeast, is bound
up with the sugar during the heating stage and storage in the production of
the malt extract at the factory and during the boiling step when preparing
the wort from grain. This is because of the Maillard reaction. The nutrient
is present but cannot be utilized by the yeast.

If the beer maker wishes to be especially nice to the yeast, 0,5 - 1%
autolyzed yeast or yeast extract can be added to the rehydrating water
before adding the dry yeast.

The reason that the manufacturer recommends the rehydration time of 15 - 30
minutes is to take advantage of the large carbohydrate reserve of glycogen
and trehalose built into the cell at the factory. After 30 minutes the yeast
begins to burn up this reserve. It is better if the yeast goes into the wort
with these reserves to get the fermentation off to a faster start. No
serious damage is done to the yeast if there is a slight delay in adding the
yeast to the wort. The fermentation will just get off to a slower start.

There may be some O2 bubbling off during the rehydration.  However, some of
the bubbles are CO2 coming from the yeast metabolizing the carbohydrate
reserve.
Clayton
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --------
Personally, I know that yeast are no longer freeze-dried by Lallemand...It
is done on a 'Fluid-Bed Dryer," a device that regulates the temperature and
volume/velocity of a heated air-stream that flows from the bottom of the
device, through the extrusions of yeast that have been sent there. This
upward airflow creates a 'fluid bed' as the yeast is 'roiled' by the
airstream moving vertically. Too much velocity and the yeast leaves the
chamber....too little, and it drops out. Temperature is regulated lower as
the process ensues.

This info is only offered to join Nate's discussion....if I wanted to pick
on someone, I would choose Dave Burley!  ;-)    HAHA...(Just using Dave's
new method for implying mirth!)

HB Shops....
As I am involved with Lallemand, I am curious as to which hB shops out there
offer our products, and would love to hear from owners and customers about
their Lallemand experiences.
If you would send your comments to me along with info on the shop...like
Shop Name, Address, phone numbers, website, etc.
Yes, this is a blatent attempt to gather info that I might use to improve
our service to the homebrewing community of owners and customers.

Thanks,
Jethro Gump
brewer at isunet.net
Lallemand Web Consultant
jethro at isunet.net

"It's Just A Joke Dave!"



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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:00:34 +1200
From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: degermination?  

G'day


Designing Great Beers   Ray Daniels     pg23
Corn.... This grain is degerminated befere processing to remove the oily
embryo.

What is degermination?  Is this something I can do at home?
I had just assummed that because it was easier to go to the supermarket and
pick up cornflakes or grits (whatever they are) than to go to a feed store
to get maize was why they where used.
Wrong again.

My first Classic American Pilsner (CAP) is almost ready for drinking
(complete with oily embryos), still a bit young.
First impressions:
Head     White/ big bubbles/ lasts about 2 secs
Aroma   Slightly malty/smells sweet
Colour   light gold colour/ murky
Slightly sweet flavour/ bland
Not enough hops
Overall, I would not get over excited about it, could easily be dropped from
the brew recipes.
Of course I have nothing to compare it with so Jeff, if you could send me
one of yours.....

Cheers Keith
Hukerenui
New Zealand







Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:55:57 +0200
From: "Campbell, Paul SSI-TSEA-A" <Paul.R.Campbell at IS.shell.com>
Subject: Wild Heather Ale and other info

For those with interest all of these came from the web, so no credit
to me - I'm just passing on what others have given.......
WARNING: Those of you who have invested in high accuracy and expensive
temperature measurement and control systems for your mash tuns
LOOK AWAY NOW!!! 8-#

- ---

>From a UK Channel 4 Program "A Cook On The Wild Side"

Wild Heather Ale (makes 30 pints) 
- ---------------------------------
Ingredients: 

     2.5 kg milled pale malted barley 
     250 g milled crystal malt 
     cold water 
     small pieces of fat (animal or vegetable) 
     8 large handfuls heather flowers 
     2 handful bog myrtle leaves 
     2 teaspoons baker's yeast or beer yeast 
     1 level teaspoon sugar or honey per 750 ml bottle 

Method:
Put the milled pale malted barley and crystal malt into a 3 gallon jam or
jelly pan. Mix
with cold water, then add more water to cover grain and stir into a slack,
sloppy
mixture. 

Heat very slowly, over 3 hours, until warm. Do not allow the temperature to
go above 70
degrees centigrade - the use of a small piece of fat (animal or vegetable)
will indicate
the temperature: solid = cold, runny = warm, small beads = too hot. 
If it gets too hot remove from heat and mix until cooler. Mix every half
hour, removing
the fat with a spoon each time whilst mixing. 

Peg a coarse dishcloth over a second pan or bucket and strain out liquor,
rinse the
grains with several kettles of hot water and leave to drain. Boil this
liquid for one
hour with 5 handfuls of heather flowers and 1 handful of bog myrtle leaves. 

Rinse the dishcloth and peg over the fermentation bucket, place 3 handfuls
of heather
and 1 of bog myrtle in the cloth and then pour the hot liquor over this into
the bucket,
make up the bucket to 30 pints with cold water and leave to cool to body
temperature.

Add 2 teaspoons of baker's yeast or a sachet of beer yeast and leave for 6-8
days to
ferment. (Adding more wild heather flowers will ferment the ale but the
flavour will
be more sour and wine-like.) 

Once the ale has stopped fizzing pour it into returnable strong screw top
lemonade or
beer bottles (750ml). Add one level teaspoon of sugar or honey to each
bottle, replace
top and store in a cool place until clear.


>From the UK Hop Descriptions; http://www.breworld.com/homebrew/hops.html
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brewers Gold (Germany). AA 3.5-4.0%. Suitable for pilsners. No traces of
harshness. 
Examples: Maclay and Co. Maclay 60/-, 70/-, 80/-; Heather Ale Ltd. Fraoch
Heather Ale.

>From http://www.breworld.com/gb/breweries/heat/brewery.htm
- -----------------------------------------------------------
"Bruce Williams, Heather Ale Limited" 
 736, Dumbarton Road 
 GLASGOW 
 G11 6RD 
 UNITED KINGDOM 
              
Phone: 0141 339 3479
  Fax: 0141 337 6298

Status: BREWER USING MACLAY EQUIPMENT 
Established: 1992 

History: 
   "Set up by Bruce Williams to brew Fraoch, a Heather Ale, a common brew
from
   the dark ages, but a beer not produced until Bruce commenced in June
1992.
   After years of warring between Scotland and England the Act of Union was
   passed in 1707 when Scotland became part of The United Kingdom and along
   with wearing Tartan, playing bagpipes and highland gatherings, Heather
Ale
   was outlawed. After hearing of the recipe in his Glasgow home brew shop
in
   1986 Bruce Williams decided to revive the original brew. This was first
produced
   at the West Highland Brewery but moved to Maclays in 1993 where Bruce
   continues to brew himself. Fraoch is made from flowering heather but
special
   storage conditions adopted in 1996 allowed the beer to be produced all
year
   round, but at two different strengths to match the season. The bottled
version is
   sold all over the world and in 1996 the USA World Beer Championship
awarded
   Fraoch a Gold Medal. In 1996 Bruce commenced brewing Grozet. The name is
   derived from the auld Scots term for a gooseberry. The 'Hairy Grape' has
been
   used to produce alcoholic beverages since mediaeval times and the latest
   version is an ale from malted barley and wheat, spiced with bog myrtle
and then
   after fermentation ripe Scottish gooseberries are added to create ' a
fruity flavour
   and refreshing sweetness'." 

   Fraoch Ale ABV: 4.10% and 5.4% Reported !!?
   Grozet (Gooseberry ale) ABV: 5%


Have fun trampling through the heather,

Paul Campbell 
Aberdeen, Scotland, UK


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:06:12 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: AHA Convention

Hey everyone,

The time for the AHA National Convention in Kansas City is almost upon
us and not much has been said about HBDrs meeting there. It'd be great
to meet as many of you as are going to be there. I haven't been to one
before so I don't know if they give out name badges. If they do, maybe
we should write HBD under our names to help recognize each other. I
believe there is a homebrew sharing event the first evening. That might
be a good place to meet and share a beer or two. Anyhow, please send me
an email if you are going and we can be on the lookout for each other.

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL



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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:51:07 -0400
From: William Solomon <solomw at rpi.edu>
Subject: Hennepin

I visited the brewery last month and asked very specifically if the
bottling yeast and the main yeast were the same.  The guide (who seemed
to have a clue) said yes.  The main ferment HOWEVER is not at 78F: it is
5 days at room temp (somewhere in the 60's) and then 3 weeks at ?35F?
(it was 35 or 40F).  After bulk conditioning cold, it is filtered and
extra yeast and sugar added before bottling.  Finally, it carbonates in
the bottle for 3 weeks at 78F (this room is heated most of the year).
The times are approximate except for the 5 days (I remember thinking
that was pretty quick for a triple).

As to whether the yeast is good: I have cultured up several bottles and
it tasted good in the starter.  A couple people have used it but I have
not heard the long term reports (they thought it was pretty good right
after bottling).  I am planning on brewing a small test batch this
weekend to get an idea of how it performs in my basement (which seems
pretty constant at 69F).

Bill





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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:00:04 -0400
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re: Rusting Stainless

Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> wrote
>
>My daughter and her husband surprised me with a new mailbox for
>Christmas.  It's made from a Pabst 1/4 bbl stainless keg. 
>
>Problem is, we finally got round to installing it and after the first
>rain, it was streaked with rust.  It just kept getting worse 
>
>I am well aware that all ss is not equal but I did not know it could
>rust.  It's not just the keg but even the Hoff-Stevens hardware,
>which is used as a door pull is rusting.

When you work stainless, cutting, grinding welding, you bring iron to the
surface. The iron once exposed will rust. I assume this is where you are
noticing the rust.

You might want to try passivating the surface to restablish the protective
chromium oxide layer. I believe john Palmer's page has the information.

Good Luck
Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:12:09 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: BrewCraft?

Does anyone have a current email address for BrewCraft in Carrollton, TX?
The old one at 76004.1610 at compuserve.com bounces.  

TIA,

Dave Houseman


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:12:31 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Clinitest: progress report

Message text written by INTERNET:lkbonham at hbd.org
>Additionally, I have run Clinitest assays on about 15 beers that were 
made
as
part of a parallel yeast test by Randy Veasey and Phil Endacott (i.e., 
same
wort
[OG: 1.044], different yeasts).  FG's on the various beers ranged from
1.007 to
1.012.  The Clinitest levels of these beers ranged from slightly below
0.25% to
slightly above 0.5%, and the Clinitest results correlated very nicely 
with
attenuation levels.
<

Louis,

I think it looks OK, but please put in the comments
that the tests you ran are on beers which have
been primed and commercial beers and not
according to the protocol I suggested. Include
my comments about the fact that both can have
residual sugar (possibly  incomplete fermentation
of the priming sugar and/or chilling and filtration.)
While they are in the ballpark, they do not
represent an actual test of the claim.

Perhaps the one thing we can learn from your
experiment on these primed beers is the fact
that one of the primed beers showed a reading
of <1/4% ( if the reading is correct) which
demonstrates that  Clinitest is NOT responding
to the dextrins or at least marginally ( remember
these are all the same wort) - a very important
point.

The fact that there is a parallel between the FG
and Clinitest reading is also important. My
interpretation is that it is due to the remaining
priming sugar since these measurements you
made did not correspond to the actual FG
(and are not attenutation levels) but to an SG
number you measured on the primed beer. 

Did you ever figure out your problems with
the standard or the dropper size?? Were the
results you reported done with the Clinitest
eyedropper or were they with your modification
of the test using a pipette? 

 

You may also wish to comment that 0.5% sugar
is on the order of magnitude of one or two SG units.

You may want to explain who Dr. Farnsworth
is. No disrespect intended, but I don't know
( and others may not) nor have I ever read
anything he wrote, as far as I know.  I have
been using Clinitest for several decades.

We have yet to see any protocol from
Herlache or from you, which you intend
to submit to HBDers. I'd like to see it
before it gets submitted. It may save a
lot of pain and future explanation.

PS. After composing the above,  I read
your submission in the HBD. I suggest
you give us a chance to comment prior
to publication on submissions like this
in the future.


Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley

 


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:50:13 -0400
From: hdowda <hdowda at axs2k.net>
Subject: Motorizing PhilMill

I have managed to loose the motorizing instructions that came with my
PhilMill.  I have the model with the shaft going through a bronze
bearing(?) into the grinder, not the one with the grinders visible from
the side.  Any one have a copy they can e-mail?

Thanks for any help.




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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:57:00 -0400
From: Jason.Gorman at steelcase.com
Subject: rustin' mailbox

One question I have is, is the keg rusting or is it happening at rivets or
welded seams?  I assume that it is happening at a weld which is a common
problem with low quality stainless.  Here is the technical nerdy way of saying
it I hope you can follow along.  The keg is probably Ferritic (400 series)
stainless.  To be effective it must have at least 12% chromium (Cr).  Other
alloying agents can bring the effective Cr percentage down below 12%.  These
mainly being carbon and nitrogen.  Especially in the presence of heat (i.e.
welding).  Upon heating you get chromium carbide forming.  This takes Cr from
the steel thus lowering the corrosion resistance.

Jason Gorman
Part time metallurgist, part time brewer and full time drunk (according to my
wife).
A beer a day keeps the Dr away.  I am living proof.



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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:06:02 -0700
From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org>
Subject: Good Spots in Long Beach (CA)?

Hope this makes HBD by the Saturday issue (as I'm leaving
Sunday a.m.).

Any recommendations for don't miss brewpubs, pubs, or beer bars
in and around Long Beach (California) would be most appreciated.
I'll be staying near the end of the 710 fwy.

Thanks,
Randy in Modesto


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:04:00 -0700
From: "Timmons, Frank" <Frank.Timmons at AlliedSignal.com>
Subject: Rusting Stainless Steel, Ommegang Yeast

The question about Ommegang yeast  has come up before, it was answered
in HBD 2924, in January 1999. Check the archives. The head brewer
responded that they use the same strain at bottling as the beer is
brewed with.

I was sorry to hear about Jack Schmidling's rusting keg mailbox. My
guess is that the stainless steel was wire brushed or ground at sometime
in its history with carbon steel tools. These can leave a messy rust
bloom that is not easy to remove. Some stainless steels will rust,
especially the 400 series steels, but since you said it was nonmagnetic,
that rules that out. I bet that the steel is a low grade 304 or 302
stainless steel. The best way to remove the rust is to wire brush with
stainless steel brush, on a drill or angle grinder if needed, then allow
the metal to passivate for a week or so, then cover with a clear coat.
That is what the Nickel Development Institute recommends for decorative
applications. Just make sure that the clearcoat is non-yellowing in the
sun.


Frank Timmons
Richmond, Va.


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:41:18 -0700
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Itallian Food & Italian Beer

Jeff Porterfield <jporterf at erols.com> was wondering about beer with
Italian food and about the existence of Italian beers in HBD 3056.

I live on Staten Island (the forgotten borough of NYC) where many of the
restaurants serve Italian food.  I happen to like porter, double bock,
and Belgian double with Italian food, although most of the local
restaurants serve wimpy Pilsner styles.  I miss the Belgian restaurant
that closed where I first sampled Orval, Chimay, Affligem etc.

I've had three Italian beers: Peroni and Moretti, which make clean light
lagers, and Moretti La Rossa, a reddish bock somewhere between double
bock and May bock.  Moretti La Rossa is the sort of malty sweet beer
that I think goes very well with Italian food.

Cheers
Ted

- -- 
McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com
College of Staten Island/CUNY
http://www.csi.cuny.edu/academia/programs/mus.html


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Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:32:07 -0700
From: Michael Kowalczyk <mikekowal at megsinet.net>
Subject: 10 Gallon batch mashmixer.

Mark (aka Randy) only used his mashmixer (
http://www.flash.net/~arkmay/Mark/rsf_tour/msm.html ) on 5 gallon batches. 
Anyone have a proven design for 10+ gallon batches?  If so, what are the
specs?  After having a taste of the no-stir life, I gotta have one!  No
carpal tunnel for me!....

 - Mike 


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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:15:21 -0500
From: "Victor" <klooy at thespark.com>
Subject: A Collectors Dream

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*********************************************************************
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**********************************************************************





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---