---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Meads-acid reduction (William Frazier)
  Edelweiss Weissbier ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Australian ale strains (Brad McMahon)
  Acidic Mead / Vierka Dry Lager Yeast (AKGOURMET)
  Stirrer Motor ("Keith Menefy")
  More on refractometry (Louis Bonham)
  Fw: DanStar Yeast ("Galloway")
  degermination (Jeff Renner)
  Re: My Mash Mixer experience. (Jack Schmidling)
  AHA Convention (William Frazier)
  Alcoholic Lemonade (Brad McMahon)
  Thanks Jethro, Corn, Oops (Dave Burley)
  Ah, now! Why do we have it if you won't use it?!? (Pat Babcock)
  Beer with Italian food (Randy Ricchi)
  1st round NHC results (Kim Thomson)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 2000 MCAB Qualifier: Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99 
* (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff)

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Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 04:56:20 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Meads-acid reduction

Dennis Waltman mentions in HBD 3060 that calcium carbonate might be used to
lower the acid in meads to make conditions more favorable for yeast growth.
I've not made meads but I do make wine and have limited experience with acid
reduction by addition of potassium bicarbonate.

Two reference books that I have mention that addition of 3.4 grams/gallon
potassium bicarbonate will reduce TA (titratable acidity) by 0.1%.

My experience with potassium bicarbonate;

1997 Leon Millot wine
TA 0.92%, pH 2.91 before addition
TA 0.71%, pH 3.55 after adding 10.2 gram/gallon
TA 0.58%, pH 3.57 after two weeks at 35F
Result-3.0 grams/gallon reduces TA by 0.1%
following cold storage for two weeks

1998 Baco Noir wine
TA 0.99%, pH 3.09 before addition
TA 0.73%, pH 3.40 after adding 5 grams/gallon
& cold storage for 3 months
TA 0.62%, pH 3.56 at bottling
Result-1.4 grams/gallon reduces TA by 0.1%
following cold storage for 3 months

I would be cautious adding potassium bicarbonate to lower acid in your
meads.  I would rather not reduce acid by this method but the wines were
just too acidic.  If you store wine at cold temps (35F) some acid will
precipitate out without adding potassium bicarbonate.  I'm not sure if this
will happen with mead.  If the wine or mead is still too acidic go ahead and
reduce acid with potassium bicarbonate and be sure to cold stabilize after
the addition.  I rack off the precipated crystals immediately after removal
from the refrigerator so they won't redissolve.
        
        Bill Frazier
        Johnson County, Kansas
 




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Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:44:57 -0400
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Edelweiss Weissbier

Weissbier lovers:

I've just returned from a business trip to Vienna during which I sampled a
number of the weizens (weissbiers) available in the restaurants and pubs
there.  I particularly enjoyed the Edelweiss brand, as it had a very
pronounced clove flavor that I have had some difficulty producing in my
limited experience of brewing hefeweizens.  The Edelweiss weissbier and
dunkel weissbier contains yeast in the bottle (which is recommended to be
served with the beer).

I returned home with one bottle of Edelweiss Dunkel Weissbier and would like
to culture the yeast IF the bottle yeast is the primary fermentation yeast.
Does anyone know if this is the case for this particular beer?
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 22:12:35 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Australian ale strains

>From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
>Randy Ricchi in HBD 3059 relates a positive experience in using Australian
>Ale yeast from Yeast Culture Kit Co at 78 degrees F. 

>While I can't find this particular strain in their current on-line
>catalogue (http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/yckco/yckcotbl.html) I seem to
>recall that this yeast is the same as that used by Coopers in their
>Sparkling Ale (which is different from the dry yeast packaged with their
>kits).  

The Yeastlabs strain is a single strain Australian Ale yeast according
to
HBD#2366, in an article by Dave Sapsis:

 A number of folks commented about the Cooper's profile.  Of particular
     concern was my statement about the yeast being multistrain.  Two
     pieces of evidence point out that this is possibly incorrect,
despite
     it being told to me by folks at the Brewery (but hey, I was also
told
     there were highly guarded about techniques, so maybe they were
trying
     to lead me astray....)
     1.  As reported by Jeff Renner, the YeastLabs A01 "Australian Ale"
was
     isolated from a fresh bottle of CSA brought over to Jeff a number
of
     years back.  He gave it Dan, who presumably streaked it out,
isolated
     a single colony, and has used that as the strain source since.  I
do
     not know if Dan made any attempts to delve into the possibility of
     mixed strains, which if not obvious from a morphological
standpoint,
     requires some substrate factor experimentation.  In any event, the
A01
     is a pure strain, and is derived from the Sparkling.
     2) As reported to me by Dave Draper, he sent some slurry on a
filter
     paper out to Dominick Venezia, who also reportedly isolated a
single
     strain.  It could be that there were multiple strains that were
missed
     in the colony selection process.


Just some added things about Coopers. There are rumours around
the homebrewing community in Adelaide that the bottle yeast
is not the primary fermentation yeast. The rumour is that
Coopers prime with a separate wort to protect their proprietary
claim to their strain. The rumourmongers claim that people have
been trying to get hold of the primary fermentation yeast due
to its special properties.
The rumours have some validity. It is known that Coopers clarify via
centrifuge, so to change the yeast would be easy to do.

However doing a search on the HBD, in #2407 Marshall Muller writes that
Glen Cooper writes:
<<
The fermenation is now in cylindroconical vessels, after which the brew
is clarified.  A controlled portion of the fermenting beer that has not
been clarified is added, along with sugar, prior to bottling or kegging,
to promote the secondary fermenation.
 ...
The Ale yeast is particularly unusual being a mixture of two yeast types
which must be maintained in a fine balance. This is necessary because
the
yeast does not focculate (clump together and settle on the bottom).  It
remains in suspension and is thus called powdery.
>>

So there! I don't know. My person hunch is that the yeast in the
bottle ARE the primary strains of yeast.

Another rumour I heard is, that Coopers now only use Pride of
Ringwood to bitter to 15 EBU's, the rest is iso-hopped.
Hooray, I love breweries run by accountants, not by
brewers.... not.
Coopers seem to be going this way.

>David Lamotte

>Brewing Down Under in Newcastle N.S.W  Australia 
>(A long away from Adelaide snif... snif..)


Brad McMahon
Aldgate, SA.
(only a few km's from Adelaide... sniff sniff)


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Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:27:42 EDT
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: Acidic Mead / Vierka Dry Lager Yeast

Since the que's been short these past few days, I'll jump in here with a 
couple of experiences and observations.  First, Dennis Waltman writes about 
meads/melomels:

>... my readings have informed me that the acidity of meads
>often grows stronger as the fermentation continues, until the acid level is
>such that the yeast can barely function.   It makes for long ferments at
>times.   Then you add fruit to your mead, all of which can add to the
>acidity of your mead.  You may need to lower the acidity of your mead and
>I'm not sure I know enough to tell you how (I have heard of people adding
>calcium carbonate to meads for this purpose, but I've never heard about or
>tasted the final product.

This is exactly what happened to me.  I added acid blend to my mead at the 
very beginning and it took forever to ferment.  After 5 months, I checked the 
pH and it was down in the low 3 range.  I added some calcium carbonate to 
bring it up to about 4.5.  I don't remember if I added more yeast or not.  I 
may have.  Anyway, that got it going again and it finished and cleared within 
a month.  One thing I do remember is when I added the calcium carbonate it 
caused the mead to fizz up and out the top of the carboy!!  I just poured the 
powder in and apparently there was a lot of CO2 in solution.  Luckily, the 
kitchen sink was nearby so I could set the carboy in there while it erupted.  
It worked, though.  That was in the Spring of 1998 and this year that mead is 
in the second round of the National Homebrew Comp.
*********************
Now on to something completely different.  I posted a few of days ago about 
using Polyclar and I mentioned that I had tried it in a recent batch that was 
fermented with Vierka German Lager dry yeast and it didn't seem to do any 
good.  Well, this batch has been kegged for 2 weeks now under 20 pounds of 
pressure at 60 degrees, and it's still cloudy.  I've drank about 1/3 of the 
keg, so it's not the initial sediment that's being blown out.  It tastes 
good, so last night I came upon the revelation (after a couple of mugs) of 
using this yeast for a wheat beer.  I know wheat beers are not necessarily or 
traditionally cloudy, but that's the way I like them.  Widmer's Hefeweizen is 
my favorite wheat beer and it's as cloudy as a mud puddle (different color, 
though. : ) )  This beer I just made was a split batch and the other half, 
fermented with Wyeast Kolsch 2565, came out crystal clear.  The only 
difference between the 2 was the yeast and the fermentation temp.  Next time 
I brew a wheat, I'm going to try this Vierka Lager yeast and see if I can get 
that elusive haze.  I'll let you know.

Has anyone else used this yeast?  What was your experience with it?

Bill Wright
Gourmet Alaska
Juneau, AK
 


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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:42:02 +1200
From: "Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Stirrer Motor

An idea for the gadgeteers
A cheap source of motors for home made stirrers are windsheild wiper motors
out of wrecked cars. Suprisingly powerfull, with a built in reduction box,
run on 12 volts (assuming american cars have grown up now) which I feel is
far safer around water. Trucks would have even bigger wiper motors

Cheers K



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:43:02 -0500
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at hypercon.com>
Subject: More on refractometry

Hi folks:

A number of people have written me recently regarding my comments about using a
refractometer to monitor gravity during the ferment.  As most of you know, while
a refractometer is quite accurate and useful in reading the gravity of
unfermented wort (especially during mashing), due to the different refractive
index of ethanol it cannot be used directly to measure the gravity of fermenting
beer.  IOW, the alcohol produced during fermentation skews the refractometer and
causes it to read substantially higher than what the gravity actually is.

It is, however, possible to use a refractometer to *estimate* the gravity of
fermenting/fermented beer *if* you know the OG (original gravity).  There are
various charts out there that I have seen that do this (thanks to Rodmey Morris
for sending me a particularly useful one).  Unfortunately, all the charts I have
seen use the old Zeiss scale units, which severely limits their utility.

As noted in my prior posts, there are formulas for estimating the percentage
alcohol from a refractometer reading and the specific gravity of the beer.  If
you take one of the various OG-FG formulas for estimating alcohol levels,
substitute that formula for the percentage alcohol variable in the "alcohol by
SG and refractometry" formula, and then solve the equasion for SG, you wind up
with a formula that allows you to estimate the SG of a fermenting or fermented
beer from the OG and the current refractometer readings.

I've come up with such a formula that uses Brix units for both the OG and
current measurements, and produces an answer in SG.  IOW, you take a reading of
your OG at pitching with the refractometer, and then use that value and the
current Brix reading on the refractometer (what I call the "Apparent Gravity" of
the sample) to estimate your current SG.  (Obviously, to get good results, you
need to take careful and accurately calibrated refractometer readings.  See the
archives or write me.)

The advantage of this method is obvious: you need get only a couple of drops of
sample to check your gravity.

OK, here it is.  I've had to break it down into several lines, so ignore the
line breaks:

SG = 1.001843 - 0.002318474(OG) -
0.000007775(OG^2) - 0.000000034(OG^3) +
0.00574(AG) + 0.00003344(AG^2) +
0.000000086(AG^3)

where:

SG = estimated specific gravity of the sample
OG = Original Gravity of the batch (in Brix)
OG^2 = Orginal Gravity squared
OG^3 = Original Gravity cubed
AG = Apparent Gravity of the sample (in Brix)
AG^3 = Apparent Gravity squared
AG^3 = Apparent Gravity cubed

Example:  OG = 12.4 Brix  (SG 1.050)
                AG =  7.9 Brix
so:

SG = 1.001843 - 0.002318474(12.4) -
0.000007775(12.4^2) - 0.000000034(12.4^3) +
0.00574(7.9) + 0.00003344(7.9^2) +
0.000000086(7.9^3)

and thus

SG = 1.001843 - 0.0287490776 -
0.001195484 - 0.000064825216 +
0.045346 + 0.0020869904 +
0.000042401354

and therefore (rounding the final answer a bit):

SG = 1.0193

Credits: I derived this from the Rasmussen regression equasion found in
DeClerck, Dave Miller's OG-FG and ABW-ABV formulas, Dr. Siebert's Zeiss Units to
RI and SG to Plato conversion equasions, and AJ DeLange's RI to Brix conversion
equasion.

Obviously, unless you're a real masochist you'll probably want to use a computer
program with this formula.  A great little shareware program that I use is
Engi-Calc, which can be found at:

http://ptty.loxinfo.co.th/~jburen/engineer.htm

I've tested this formula on the various examples given in DeClerck and Siebert,
and on the charts Rodney Morris sent me (no author listed on them,
unfortunately), and it generates results that are within SG 0.001 (indeed, the
results are spot on for the charts).  On some of my beers, it's given results
that are within SG 0.002 or readings by hydrometer, and often better.  However,
because the equasion is derived from various "estimating" equasions that assume
commercial pitching rates, etc., YMMV.

Give it a try and please let me know how well or poorly it works for you.

Louis K. Bonham



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Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:29:41 -0400
From: "Galloway" <galloway at gtcom.net>
Subject: Fw: DanStar Yeast


- -----Original Message-----
From: Galloway <galloway at gtcom.net>
To: homebrew at hdb.org <homebrew at hdb.org>
Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 4:23 PM
Subject: DanStar Yeast


>Greetings,
>    Long time reader, first time "poster." It being Saturday, we brewed up
5
>gallons of a  partial mash/extract American Wheat, a very promising beer by
>the way. . .  The yeast of choice was DanStar's "Windsor." I started the 2
>pkgs Thursday morning in a pint of 105 degree water, stepping it up until I
>ended up w/ a 62oz starter for today's brew. This is the 4th time we've
>pitched using dried yeast. (Up until recently I've stayed w/ the liquid
>product, mainly the WYeast lines.) The results are always the same. Within
>30 minutes there are definate signs of fermentation. In this case the
>blowoff line pressurizing. Within 60 minutes, CO2 perking through the
>blowoff line. Within 2 hours, "violent" fermentation. Lag time, Smag time,
>DanStar is a good product, and depending on what beer is being made will be
>my yeast of choice. I brew alot of IPA's and ESB's and the preformence and
>profiles  of the 4 available DanStar strains meet my requirements. The
>performance and results are certainly similar to the WYeast strains. The
>bottom line is "Where the glass meets the lips." Danstar seems to hold it's
>own, and at 1/2 the cost. . .
>
>Regards,
>
>Dave Galloway
>galloway at gtcom.net
>
>



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Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:45:03 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: degermination

"Keith Menefy" <kmenefy at ihug.co.nz> asks

>What is degermination?  Is this something I can do at home?

The germ is the little seed like body at the tip of a kernel of maize,
which we call corn in the states.  It can't be done yourself short of
picking them off individually before grinding the kernels.  Yoou didn't say
what form of corn you used 0 did you get whole corn and grind it yourself?

Glakes are not the same as the breakfast cereal.  They are large grits
(chunks of maize endosperm) that are moistened and flattened by heated
rollers, which gelatinize the starch.  Brewers grits are smaller chunks of
endosperm, corn meal still smaller chunks, and corn flout very fine
endosperm particles.  The oil content of these increases as size decreases,
but all have less that whole corn as they are made from degerminated grain.

Brewing texts say that low oil content is necessary to avoid rancid
flavors, but this may be due to time of storage of the ground grain.
Perhpas freshly ground grain would not be a problem.  There was a
discussion on HBD a while back where George DePiro reported no flavor or
heading problems with whole corn meal, and Jack Schmidling uses it all the
time.  Bourbon whiskey is made from 70%+ whole corn meal - the oil floats
on top of the fermenting mash like a blood red oil slick.  But of course,
it's distilled at the end of fermentation.

>Of course I have nothing to compare it with so Jeff, if you could send me
>one of yours.....

Well, an Australian brewer, Regan Pallandi, just sent me a bottle to try
(it's lagering).  Of course, he sent it to the states with an airline
friend, who mailed it.

Let us know how it turns out when fully lagered.  It should have no heading
or flavor problems if properly made.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:51:27 -0700
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Re: My Mash Mixer experience.

Michael Kowalczyk <mikekowal at megsinet.net>

"When I doughed in at 140 deg for my 15 minute 135 deg first step the 
motor stopped....

Not sure what you mean by dough in or how you do it but I (my wife
actually) slowly pours 1 pound of grist in while the mixer is 
running.  Then she lifts the mixer to make sure it is all wetted
properly and than adds another pound.  It is slow and boring and
that is why she does it.  It's her contribution to the brewing here.
The water is at or above 150 F when we start the dough in and we
never have a problem.

" I removed it, stirred and tried again.  Still stopped.  I removed
one of the fan blades and left the lower one.  Still stopped...

My knee jerk reaction is that two blades is no better than one
and twice the hassle.

" I then moved the fan blade higher than the thermomether and it worked. 
 At least it looked like it was stirring....

" I was concerned that the mash was scorching because
the fan was about 12 inches from the bottom.

I am sure it looked great but you are kidding yourself if you think
it was stirring properly that far from the bottom.

Scorching is a real problem, especially with a false bottom.  I have
told the story many times but that is how and why I invented the EM.
With the blade just clearing the EM and rational control of the
heat, there is no scorching.

" - Dough-in at 1.5 qt/lb.  I doughed in at 1.25 qt/lb.
 
That's most of your problem.  I use 6 gallons for 15 lbs of grist for
a gravity around 1.050 at 10 gallons.

"- Dough-in very slowly.  3 Additions.  Let each addition fold-in first 
before adding the next....

Try my way above.  You can not avoid lumps and starch balls even
with three additions.

"- Remove the thermometer.  Jack Schmidling says that the mash should be 
a consistant temp so I should be able to read the temp quickly with just 
a few inched of mash.....

I just dangle a dial thermometer with a piece of wire a few inches
into the mash.

p.s.  I will NEVER stir by hand again!

Nothing great is lightly won.  It's worth the effort.  Stirring
is a real drag.

js


- -- 
     Visit our web site:  http://user.mc.net/arf
  ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK:  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm



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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 05:24:19 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: AHA Convention

Hello Mark Tumarkin and anyone else that might be going to KC for the AHA
Convention.  I checked the program and it looks like there is an awards
banquet on Saturday night and a Blues, Brews & BBQ event on Friday night.
If you arrive on Thursday looks like you might be looking for a good place
for dinner.  Three excellent choices are;

Great Kansas City Steaks ~ there are several great steakhouses but you will
love the one listed below...no frills, just great food.

Jess & Jims Steakhouse
Martin City, MO

A Euro Bristro right in the newest upscale area of KC (Actually it's on the
Kansas side).  I always go back to this place, excellent food, service etc.

YaYas
4701 West 119th Street
Leawood, Kansas

The best Italian food in Kansas City, in my opinion.  While they have a
restaurant in one of the oldest parts of the city that's fun to go to I
suggest going to their Kansas location.  Same great food and service in
Corporate Woods which is a nice business/residental area.

Cafe Garozzo
9950 College Blvd
Overland Park, Kansas

BTW...they serve Peroni, the best Italian beer.  Says so right on the umbrella.

I hope Arthur Bryant's is on the the Blues, Brews & BBQ tour.  Bryant's is
listed as one of the five best BBQ restaurants in the US by Bon Appetit.
It's my favorite but watch out for the sauce, it's red hot.

Sorry I can't join you on Friday night (previous date) but I will see you on
Saturday.  Hope you enjoy one of the above places if you get the chance.

        Bill Frazier
        Johnson County, Kansas



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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 22:51:52 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Alcoholic Lemonade

In HBD#3059 Al Czajkowski <aczajkow at ford.com>
reproduces my clone of "Two Dogs" alc. lemonade,
(albeit converted to US measurements)
then says:

>The result of this was a very dry sparkling beverage - tasty but
>lacking.  I made a second batch to which I added 1.0 lbs on light dry
>malt and 1.0 lbs of malto-dextrin.  This batch was marginally sweeter
>but I think the malt flavor was a negative flavor influence.  My >initial
> thoughts on this years first try is to go with 1.5 lbs of lactose
> but am unsure of how much sweeter this will be.

My answer: Not much. I don't find lactose that sweet anyway,
and I am unsure what would happen if you added lactose to lemonade.
As Dave Burley suggested, add artificial sweetner if it is
too dry for you. This may well be the case if you cannot
find sweet lemons. Your palate may be attuned to sweeter
lemonade as well. Americans (as a grand sweeping generalisation)
tend to prefer sweeter foods and soft drinks than those from
outside North America. I do recall puckering sweet soft drinks
when I was in the U.S.
Those who have tried the same branded soft drinks in Europe
/Australia, may have noticed they are not as sweet.
Oh, "soft drinks" is an Australian/UK term that means "soda" 
or "pop" or "seltzer" depending where you are in the U.S.

Brad


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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:25:22 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Thanks Jethro, Corn, Oops

Brewsters:

Rob "Jethro" Moline gave an excellent summary
of how to properly handle dehydrated yeast
and why. And I'm not kidding when I say "thanks".

Does Lallemand have any data on the
carbohydrate profile S. cerevisiae can metabolize
given certain lipid levels and alcohol contents? 

This will involve the misnamed ( in my opinion)
"secondary" fermentation of the carbohydrates
larger than two glucose units.

These fermentations are much slower than the
smaller sugar molecules and often not
experienced in commercial fermentations, since
they are filtered and chilled once the major
ferment is finished. This information will likely
have to come from older data or laboratory
information. Data I have seen suggests that ale
yeast can metabolize tri-saccahrides and lager
yeast can also metabolize maltotetraose in the
so-called "secondary" fermentation.
- ------------------------------------
Keith Menefy of New Zealand made a CAP and
used corn ( I presume whole kernels and not
maize meal?) and wants to know about
degermination and why the beer is murky
and the head on his beer has big bubbles
and lasts a few seconds.

Well, Keith, you perhaps answered the
question yourself.  In the first place, when
Americans say corn they mean maize - don't
know about the Kiwis (and I guess you realize
that, just wanted to clarify it for our other
brewing brothers). Oil from the corn is a
head killer and may explain the head problem.

The germ of the corn kernel is a major source
of the oil and this is removed and pressed for
corn oil. The oil is worth much more than the
meal and unless you used ordinary feed
corn ( which I guess you did?) or whole
kernel corn you probably used degermed
corn if it was in the form of maize meal, grits
or mealies ( for our South African brewers).
If so, this does not explain your results.

If you did use degermed corn or not, then I
wonder if you cooked the corn first in
a "goods" or cereal mash? The "murky"
description of your beer makes me wonder.
This cooking of the unmalted, <milled> cereal
grains is necessary to get the starch gelatinized
so the enzymes from the malt can reduce
it to fermentables.  Addition of a pound or so
of crushed malt to this mash after it has been
brought to a boil and then cooled to 150s F
(65-70 C) with a water additon will give you a
free flowing non-pot-sticking mash which you
can cook for a few minutes at the boil to release
the starch and gelatinize it.

I have found that often beers which are
cloudy with starch also have a head
problem and do not have very good
mouth feel.  One thing you can try is to
use brewer's maize flakes. These have
been degermed and are already gelatinized.
This should set you on the road to getting
a good idea of what this beer is like and
then you can explore other sources of grain
such as maize meal and grits ( which I use).

I have read here that grits are not pure
corn but have been treated with caustic
to produce hominy which is persumably
then dried and milled. My dictionary
distinguishes hominy grits from grits
which are just larger flakes of degermed
corn. This is consistent with the use of the
terms as I was growing up. I doubt that grits
we get ( unless they are "instant" grits)
have been pretreated and I use them as
I described above in a goods mash with
excellent success.
- -----------------------------------
OOps. No one was more surprised to
read my letter to Louis on the HBD than
I was.  I apologize to Louis and Al Korzonas
as I had not intended to submit this here.

Checking back I see that Louis copied
Al and I on the post he submitted to the HBD
and I "replied all" before I realized he had
posted it without our comments. I did notice
before I sent my already written response
that this was the case, but I did not connect
that he had used this cc for submission.

I routinely delete without opening the HBD
submission notifications ( along with
unsolicited mail from Russian Sex Queens,
various viruses and the like). This reduction
in e-mail reading caused my internal letter
to be posted without my knowing about it. 


Al ( busy with new babies and moving!!!)
and I have both been actively involved in
trying to  get to the bottom of the Clinitest
protocol with Louis and others  and to
establish a timetable for the completion
and we have been copying each other
on all commmunications. I was so used to
doing this that I did not check the cc: Louis
used. On my Compuserve e-mail it is not
automatically displayed so I did not notice.
Sorry.
- ------------------------------- 

Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley

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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:48:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: Ah, now! Why do we have it if you won't use it?!?

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Dave Burley sez...

> I routinely delete without opening the HBD submission notifications 
> (along with unsolicited mail from Russian Sex Queens, various viruses
> and the like). 

Well! Folks, this is truly shocking to your Janitor. And, from the
requests we frequently get to remove items from the queue, Dave isn't the
only "guilty party".

FIRST: The receipt is provided such that you have control over your
posting until it is published. It is intended to be a SERVICE; not a
nuisance. Further, it is this feature that separates the HBD from all
other mail lists that I am aware of (including the new DBD and HVD): you -
YOU - have the ability to correct your own mistakes or to change your mind
about posting information.

If you simply delete the receipt unread, you lose this ability. My
recommendation? Get rid of the filter, oh ye who employ such methods.
Delete your receipt only AFTER you've seen your article in a Digest. This
way, you have the ultimate control over whether or not any eyes other than
your own (and the Janitors) will read the material.

SECOND, to classify the receipt with the likes of letters from Russian Sex
Queens, viruses and other JUNK mail....

                                          .....HARUMPH!

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:36:32 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Beer with Italian food

In HBD 3056, Jeff Porterfield was wondering what type of beer goes good
with Italian food. 

Michael Jackson recommended Vienna, or Octoberfest style beers for such
foods in his "Beer Companion" book.



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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:06:48 -0500
From: Kim Thomson <alabrew at mindspring.com>
Subject: 1st round NHC results

It's me again...

Anyone received results from the 1st Round NHC from Kansas?  Two of us
still waiting here in B'ham.

By-the-way, why does the AHA group Flanders Red with Belgian Pale Ale,
Double, Tripple? The lactic beers are sooooo different. (Guess what
style I entered!)   And why is Wit with them too?  Anyone in the group
on the AHA style committee? 

Kim "trying to cope with not making the second round" Thomson
- --


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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 22:32:45 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report

"Researchers Say Beer Ananphylaxis Under-Recognized"
Several case studies published in the "JOURNAL OF ALLERGY AND CLINICAL
IMMUNOLOGY" examined the potential severity of allergies to beer. In several
cases recorded in Madrid, Spain, patients suffered anaphylactic reactions
after drinking beer. Symptoms included a tingling sensation in the face, lip
or tongue, chest tightness, coughing, fainting and generalized urticaria
(hives/rash).
In the study, researchers made an extract from barley made beer and
performed skin prick tests. Three patients so tested had positive results,
while 20 tested negative. The study concluded that people with an allergy to
barley can experience severe anaphylaxis after consuming even a relatively
small amount of the malt beverage.
	MODERN BREWERY AGE, May 24, 1999  http://www.breweryage.com

"Beer Market: A London Bar Tries Pricing Drinks Based On Demand"
Chris Maher recently opened the Market Bar in the City, as this city's
financial district is known. The bar offers beer and spirits at market
prices, fluctuating with customer demand and flashed over screens similar to
stock-exchange-quote boards.
In about a month, Mr. Maher plans to offer futures contracts on beer prices,
enabling customers to lock in the day's best deals. "You can buy six beers
at a low price," he says, taking delivery of the beer anytime during the
evening. Sometime soon, the bar hopes to be selling the futures over the
Internet.
Keith Bateman, one of the bar's computer developers, envisages a time when a
thirsty office worker can surf the web from the office, find the best price
for Budvar, and buy three pints of it. "You can order a beer that will be
sitting on the bar top when you walk in," he says.
And unlike the real stock market, the bar never suffers from
liquidity squeezes. If a beer isn't selling, the computer system simply
lowers the price to help boost sales.
	WALL STREET JOURNAL, June 3, 1999

"CYBERLITE: GREAT TASTE, LESS FILLING"
It seems that Miller Brewing Company is soon to use Marc Andreessen, who
co-founded Netscape, to sell beer in television ads.
Industry executives say that the ads, which are still in development, will
be set in a bar, and Mr. Andreessen will be ribbed about the dot-com craze
by comedian Norm MacDonald.
Miller hopes that this campaign will appeal to "Web-crazy Generation X-ers."
	WALL STREET JOURNAL, June 17, 1999

A Bit Of A Stretch, But Here Goes......
While not wanting to go to extreme lengths, this story caught my eye...and
hell, you never know who you are talking to, huh?
Today's Des Moines Register had a story about a local gal, whose car, newly
bought as a graduation present, was car-jacked at knife-point. She was later
released unharmed. But the license plate is memorable..
So, you never know....if any of you out there see this vehicle, I know the
number plate will stand out.....

"The 1991 Plymouth Sundance is red and has four doors and an Iowa license
plate of 015-HBD."

If you see it, you know what to do......For the full story, go to....
http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c4788993/8092401.html
You never know.....

Kansas City AHA Nationals...ISP Help?
I ask for info from KC based brewers, that might steer me to their best
recommendations for a temporary ISP, while I am there. Private e-mail would
be appreciated.
Thanks!

TIME FOR A BEER.....Worldwide Watch Company of Seattle, Washington, has
released a wristwatch that features the slogan, "Time For A Beer," and an
image of a beer bottle and mug. The mug fills and empties every 12 seconds.
$ 19.95. Call (800)-535-0131.

Cheers!
Jethro Gump
brewer at isunet.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"



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