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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Cutting kegs (Harlan Bauer)
  Berliner Weisse (Nathan Kanous)
  Trusty old crock pot (Nathan Kanous)
  re: Berliner weisse ("Charles T. Major")
  Outatown, Thermometer Repair (Dave Burley)
  Re: Sparklers and Swans ("Jim Busch")
  Wacky thermometer (Demonick)
  Converting Kegs (Eric Schoville)
  Re: Cutting the Top out of a Keg (Zurekbrau)
  Cutin' Kegs? (Joy Hansen)
  Wacky? (Joy Hansen)
  false bottom mashers (SClaus4688)
  Wisconsin and Shepherd Neame yeast (Keith Busby)
  Stirplate problem/Electronics (Harlan Bauer)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 2000 MCAB Qualifier: Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99 
* (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff)

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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:43:54 -0500
From: Harlan Bauer <blacksab at midwest.net>
Subject: Cutting kegs

I've cut up quite a few kegs, and I find for cutting a hole in the top
of the keg, a Sawzall works quite well if you're at all skilled with the
tool. I've been able to cut up to 3 kegs using a single blade. The
secret--work very slowly so as not to overheat the blade. Also, fill the
keg with water to keep it from jumping around, AND WEAR EARPLUGS!!! With
this method, all I need is a quick file to smooth out the rough edges,
and a little sandpaper to make it absolutely smooth--the saw cut makes
it round.

To draw the line, hook a loop of thin wire around the Sanke neck and
draw a bunch of concentric circles. Why? Because once you've cut the
first circle, you have no more point of reference in the event that the
first cut is the wrong size. However, if you use some type of caliper,
you can choose the corect line for the lid and get it right the first
time. All my lids fit perfectly. Simply split the line and do not depend
on using a file to correct your mistakes--go slowly and cut accurately.

To cut the whole top off--chine and all--I use a Bosch variable speed
saber saw and use the weld as my cut guide. Once off, use a large
grinder and lay it flat on the metal and attempt to work it around
quickly, riding only on the high spots. After a short time, the top will
form a perfectly flat plane.

And don't forget that when drilling holes in metal to drill an 1/8-in
pilot hole first and to use the slowest speed possible and apply as much
pressure as possible. If you don't, all you're doing is dulling the bit!
There is absolutely no reason to use a cobalt bit on SS--a high speed
steel bit is more than adequate when used correctly.

Now, for an open invitation--if any of you are ever in the Carbondale
(IL) area, I'd be more than happy to cut as many kegs as you'd like
(however I will NOT cut kegs from micros!). It only takes about
10-minutes.

Hope this helps,
Harlan.

If there's time enough to do it over then there's time enough to do it
right the first time...


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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:30:23 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Berliner Weisse

Rick,
The stuff I've read indicates that L. delbrukii is a "resident" bacteria on
malted grains.  That's why Charlie P. et al have advocated the "sour mash"
using a "handful" of unmashed barley malt.  I'm sure if you really wanted
it, you could check with Dan McConnell at Yeast Culture Kit Co.  Nope, Dan
doesn't pay me...doesn't even know me....but his products are first rate!
Also, Wheeler and Protz have a short discussion on "souring beers" in their
Brewing Classic European Beers book.  Their procedure essentially is to
hold the "goods" (either mash or wort) at about 140 deg F because L.
delbrukii will proliferate while other bacteria and yeast can't handle the
temp.  Then, once you've accomplished the level of souring that you desire
(pH based, maybe?) then you heat it back up to pasteurize, cool and pitch
your yeast.  They also mention that the folks at Kindl pitch a pure culture
of L. delbrukii a "few hours" before pitching the yeast.

I've never tried any of these techniques (don't you hate it when people
post crap like this).  I will, however, try it sometime this summer....it's
just a matter of finding some time to "experiment".

Good luck.
nathan in madison, wi




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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:34:21 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Trusty old crock pot

Here's a thought.  I've been contemplating brewing some small "test
batches" of beer and have happened upon my old crock pot.  It seems that my
crock pot will hold a temp between 150 and 160 deg F when the dial is set
on "low".  I'm in the process of building a small lauter tun to accomodate
sparging of small quantities.  I'm thinking I can easily manage 1 gallon
batches in the crock pot.  Anybody tried this?  I can't see any reason it
wouldn't work.  I just thought I'd toss it out to everybody.  I plan to use
it primarily to test some different yeast strains and play with things like
brewing a berliner weisse.  Who wants to screw up 5 gallons of brew when
trying to figure out how to sour beer?  I'll screw up a gallon and not
worry...5 gallons and I'm a little more upset, just because it takes a fair
amount of time and effort.  Later
nathan in madison, wi




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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:00:31 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: "Charles T. Major" <ctmajor at samford.edu>
Subject: re: Berliner weisse

I've got a berliner Weissbier in the fermenter now.  I used 
a method recommended on the HBD awhile back by
maltydog at aol.com.  Mash the wheat and pilsner malt for 5 
hours with about 2 oz of hops (he recommended Saaz but I 
used Mt. Hood because that's what I had on hand), sparge, 
cool to fermenting temps, and pitch yeast.  He used a 
Belgian wit yeast, but I used Nottingham.  Note that there 
is no boil involved.  The lactobacilli come from the barley 
itself.  He noted in one of his posts that a mash out 
killed off too much of the lactobacilli and didn't sour the 
beer enough.  Also expect low efficiency, around 65%, which 
corresponds with my results: 3.5 lbs pilsner malt and 3 lbs 
of wheat malt for an OG of 1.036 in a 5 gal batch. 

It looks a little strange as the ferment gets going, with a 
sort of opaque mustard yellow color (not unlike a slightly 
paler version of a harvest gold refrigerator, circa 197?), 
but it has begun to clear.  I'll report results in a month 
or so when it's ready to drink.

Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Alabama



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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:05:26 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Outatown, Thermometer Repair

Brewsters:

I will be out of town until July 15th.
I will respond to e-mails at that time.
Happy 4th of July!! ( or Independence Day
for the Brits.)  {8^)
- ----------------------------------------------------
John Robinson thinks he has a thermometer problem.
I don't know, since I can't ever remember
measuring a boiling wort. But a boiling point
of 220F doesn't seem that high for a sugar solution,
depending on the concentration of sugar.

There are several procedures for calibrating a
thermometer, the easiest one is to measure a
slurry of crushed ice/water in a thermos bottle and
boiling water with the BP corrected for your
altitude.  Submerge the thermometer to the
calibration line only. To get additional points, weigh
a mixture of ice water from which the ice has
been removed and boiling water and calculate
the temperature as the average of the absolute
temperature times the weight of each divided by
the total weight. Also, see the HBD Archives.

If you have a problem, it may be that the alcohol
has separated in the capillary column. Chill the
tip of the thermometer down as cold as possible
and the liquid will collect in the bulb getting rid
of the separation and then will work.
A salt/ ice slurry may work, depending on the
range of the thermometer. Otherwise, try
dry ice/acetone or such, dippng it just long
enough to get all the liquid into the bulb. Liquid
nitrogen is too cold as it will freeze the alcohol.

An independent check is a household medical
thermometer. Of course, you will have to shove it 

all the way up to that line for accuracy. Just kidding.
Adjust a water bath to ( as the British say) "blood heat"
and compare the two thermometers.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------.  

Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley

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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:22:58 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: Re: Sparklers and Swans

Dana wrote:

<I can see a sparkler releasing most of the aromatics in a beer at 
<once but how can a beer be subject to "untold damage" by just a swan 
<neck. Wouldn't it act simply like a tube similar to the beer lines? 

I think you are more wise than our friends across the pond who are so 
animated about Swan necks and sparklers.  Personally, I agree with 
the issue of sparkler use and abuse but the neck part is basic BS in 
my opinion.  Ive been using a Swan neck engine for years, usually 
without a sparkler and love it.  A lot of this issue of what the beer 
is like in the glass is determined by how much CO2 is in the beer in 
the cask prior to dispense.  If the brewer keeps the volumes of CO2 
higher (say 1.5 Vols) and then puts it through the sparkler, the end 
volume of gas in the beer may be closer to a southern pour beer which 
began closer to 1.0-1.2 Vols and was dispensed through a short neck 
without sparkler.  Then there is the issue of grist formulation, the 
northern beers seemed to employ a higher degree of caramel malts to 
my taste while having less aroma hops.  

I brew a good deal of hoppy ales and its my practice to let the cask 
develop a higher degree of carbonation than is typical in a UK pub, 
say 1.5 vols.  I then use a Swan neck without sparkler and get a 
hoppy, creamy aromatic pint that still has a good deal of condition 
in the glass but not overly carbonic/acidic/bubbly.  By employing the 
dreaded cask breather, one keeps the air out for extended cask life 
and the degree of condition (CO2 vols) will decrease over the life of 
the cask towards the 1.0 Vol balance range. 

BTW, a German slow pour Pils is similar to the UK real ale idea in 
that it knocks out of solution CO2 which brings more hop aroma to the 
top of the foam while drastically altering the mouthfeel and finish 
which changes the malt foundation perceptions.  One of my favorite 
quaffs is a slow poured 50 BU pils....

Prost!

Jim Busch


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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:48:54 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Wacky thermometer


From: "John Robinson" <robinson at novalistech.com>
>All was well until this last weekend.  My first clue was when boiling 
>wort read 220F!  Later, a sample drawn off for an SG check read 
>120F!  A subsequent check with another thermometer revealed a 
>wort temp of 80 (still higher than I like, but water temps have been 
>quite warm here lately).

Check the thermometer VERY carefully for a separation of the alcohol
column.  Sometimes a bubble of alcohol vapor will appear in the
alcohol column and hence your readings will be higher by the size of
the bubble.  

One way to remove such a bubble is to get all the alcohol back into
the bulb, by using something very cold - ice water, salt bath, or dry
ice in alcohol (rubbing).  Once all the alcohol (actually, probably
glycol) is in the bulb, let the thermometer slowly warm back to room
temp while keeping it vertical.

If you can not see a bubble, you might try the above trick.  If you
truely have no bubble then I have no idea what happened to your
thermometer,but I do know that it's time for another one.

Cheers!

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com




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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:18:50 -0500
From: Eric Schoville <eschovil at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Converting Kegs

Rick Lassabe <bayrat at worldnet.att.net> questions the
easiness and the safety of cutting out the top of a keg
using a grinding wheel.  Once again, I would like to
reitterate that it is _very_ easy and also safe.  The blades
that I have used are 6 1/2" fiber reinforced grinding wheels
called a "Fastcut Metal Cutting Blade", made by Norton
Company, Consumer Products, Worcester, MA 01606. The part
number is 89098. The UPC label is 0 76607 89098 6. FYI, it
cost about $2.50.

I have used the above blades to both cut the tops out and
cut the tops off, and find it very easy and safe as long as
one wears long pants, eye protection, and ear protection.
It is also very quick and very inexpensive, as one blade can
handle several kegs.

Now I am sure that a Dremel tool can do this, but in my
experience with cutting metal with a hand-held Dremel, it
takes a long time and you end up going through quite a few
cutoff wheels.  Plus, my hand/arm gets tired from holding
the thing.

I have some info on my experiences on my web page at
http://home1.gte.net/rschovil/beer/3tier.html

Eric Schoville
Flower Mound, TX



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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:28:44 EDT
From: Zurekbrau at aol.com
Subject: Re: Cutting the Top out of a Keg

I read on the HBD someone posted that they used a 4 1/2 " disk grinder to cut 
the top out of a keg.  I had my doubts about how that would work.  I tried it 
this spring and it worked great.  It took about 25 min. and I did not have to 
mess with oil. 

Rich Zurek
Carpentersville IL USA


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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:25:41 -0400
From: joytbrew at halifax.com (Joy Hansen)
Subject: Cutin' Kegs?

Thanks, thanks, thanks, .  .  .  .

Few HBDers have specified what's being cut out!  It's one thing to cut off
the top of a keg, around the circumference and below the rim.  It's quite
different to cut out the keg top and leave the rim and handle ( my
preference).  Using a circular say would seem impossible for cutting the top
out.  I use a combination of nitride tipped drills, an angle grinder,
sawsall with a bimetal blade, a saber saw with bimetal blade, and a rotary
file in my electric drill or air tool.  In fact, I use what ever is
available to accomplish the cut out.  All these are dangerous from the stand
point of particles flying into an eye, hearing damage, and breathing
Stainless Steel shards.

I'm surprised that anyone would find the plasma cutting to be objectionable.
The kerf is quite small, precise, and there isn't any oxidized metal to deal
with.  Oxy-acetylene cutting leave a real mess because of the oxidation
resistance nature of stainless steel.    Plasma is used for non-ferrous
cutting because it works!  Oxy-acetylene works by forming rust which is
blown out of the kerf by the oxygen.  Sure wish I could afford the $1500 for
a plasma cutting outfit.

Anyway, it's important that KEG CUTTERS realize that breathing the shards
from stainless steel is a very hazardous activity and I think that a
breathing mask is in order.

                                               Joy"T"Brew



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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:08:18 -0400
From: joytbrew at halifax.com (Joy Hansen)
Subject: Wacky?

Could it be that you read the wrong scale, like Celsius rather than
Fahrenheit?

                                                   Joy"T"Brew



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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:44:28 EDT
From: SClaus4688 at aol.com
Subject: false bottom mashers

In hbd 3065,  Jim Cave wrote:

>I would just like to counter Jack Schmidling's comments about a false 
>bottom and scorching.  I use a false bottom with a converted sankey keg and 
>have never encountered an incidence of scorching.  I use a 35,000 BTU 
>natural gas Hotwater tank heater and can step ~45 litres of combined mash 
>and grain at a rate of 1.5 degrees F per minute without difficulty or 
>scorching by simple stirring.

Having used a false bottom system for the past 5 or 6 years, and having only 
had one incidence of scorching (due to my own stupidity), I would have to 
cuncur with Jim on this.

However, there is one problem with using a false bottom that I have not seen 
mentioned much.  My false bottom, as I would guess many others are, is made 
of a stainless steel screen perforated with 3/32 inch holes located about an 
inch above the bottom of the tun.  Some of the crushed grain bits inevitably 
fall through the holes in the screen during mashing.  My experience is that 
those grain bits do not convert as readily as those above the false bottom.  
I.e., I can do an iodine test for conversion of the mash above the false 
bottom and have it come out negative, and then do the same test of liquid 
coming from the tap below the false bottom and have it turn black as night as 
soon as the iodine hits it.

The area below the false bottom on my fifteen gallon mash tun holds about a 
gallon of liquid. I have always assumed that the reason for lack of 
conversion below the false bottom is that there is a relatively small amount 
of grain for the relatively large volume of water in that part of the mash 
tun.  As a result, fewer grain derived amylase enzymes would be available in 
the false bottom area to accomplish conversion.  I would guess that this 
problem is exacerbated by heating from below, which would have a tedency to 
heat whatever enzymes there are in the false bottom area above 
saccaharification range before having a substantial affect on the mash 
temperature above the false bottom.

I deal with this problem by doing a small recirculation of about a gallon of 
mash runoff (for a ten gallon batch) about a half hour into the mash.  I do 
it at this point to assure that there are enough enzymes still active in the 
overall mash to convert the starches that have slipped below the false 
bottom.  Works for me.

I was wondering if other false bottom mashers (nice band name there!) had 
similar experience, and how they dealt with it.

 -Steve Claussen in PDX


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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:11:28 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu>
Subject: Wisconsin and Shepherd Neame yeast

1) I shall be moving to Wisconsin round about this time this year. I
gathered a while ago from Steve Potter that the homebrew supply situation
in Madison is not great. Is Milwaukee any better? We will probably be
living halfway between the two.

2) Does anyone have any experience with the Shepherd Neame yeast (from
YCKC)? I have used it twice now and have had very sluggish fermentation.
The first time I attributed to inadequate aeration, but the second cannot
be the case. It never really went into the usual maelstrom, never
hiccupped, popped max once every 2 seconds, but is still going at 6-second
intervals after 6 days. I have not taken a reading yet.

Keith Busby


Keith Busby
George Lynn Cross Research Professor
Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies
University of Oklahoma
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202
Norman, OK 73019
Tel: (405) 325-5088. Fax: (405) 325-0103


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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:12:07 -0500
From: Harlan Bauer <blacksab at midwest.net>
Subject: Stirplate problem/Electronics

I have an older model stirplate that overheats. It's not the motor, it's
the potentiometer. The problem is that after a period of time, the VERY
hot pot heats the aluminium case creating a stiring hotplate. I COULD
solve the problem by making the control remote, but I'd rather replace
the pot with something that doesn't cause the overheating. Any ideas?

BTW, here's the data on the stirplate:

Magnestir, Cat. No. 1250, Lab-Line Instruments, Inc.

The pot is made by Ohmite Mfg. Co., Model H, Pat.No. RE-19607, 300v.,
Insulated

The size of the pot is 1.5-in. round and 1.25-in deep, anything larger
than this probably will not fit in the case.

TIA,
Harlan.


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