---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Dogma? ("Alan McKay")
  Mash cutting ("Sieben, Richard")
  RE:Mash cutting? (Dave Hinrichs)
  Tinny taste / Yankees ("Trevor Good")
  Michiganders & Michiganians (Eric.Fouch)
  First batch (Dave Hinrichs)
  Re: 'Intellectual Sloth' and Brewing (uhlb)
  Water temp.  Who you calling a Yankee,    Father's Day Red (Edward Seymour)
  Bitter #1 (uhlb)
  Carbonating Kegs (Eric Schoville)
  Bitter #2 (uhlb)
  Bitter #3 (uhlb)
  Re: Yankees and brewing survey proposal ("John Palmer")
  Zymurgy dishwasher article (Dave Humes)
  new moniker ("Bayer, Mark A")
  North/South ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Red Beer ("Eric R. Tepe")
  Old foghorn clone (JazzNball)
  Weissheimer Pils Malt (Hazy Kolsch) (Dave Humes)
  Czech beer questions ("Dr. Pivo")
  Yankees (AVARDTWINS)
  Yankees & chilling beer ("Dana H. Edgell")
  The Lady and the Dishwasher (Lester Long)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:00:07 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com>
Subject: Dogma?

Stephen Alexander asks :
I don't see much blind recitation - do you Alan ?

Well, yes I do, actually.  Let's see :

 - Brewing with Aluminum
 - HSA (yes, you have some good data, but how many of the
  folks who warn of it have actually read that.  How many
  of the rest of us HSA our beer with no problems?)
 - Liquid vs Dry Yeast
 - The need to add malt to adjuncts when boiling them
 - use only 1/3 the amount of sugar to carb a keg
 - malt extract priming gives "creamier" head
 - use of adjuncts in extract beer w/o mashing
 - use of twist-off bottles

The list goes on and on.  There's all kinds of things that
we simply assume to be true for no other reason than that
we've read it 100 times.  But where did we read it?  From
others who've made the same assumption.  See the viscious
circle there?

It's like gardening.  The majority of people who have a
garden in their backyard use techniques which were developed
for large-scale, industrial farming.  They till up a huge
area of land, make their furrows, but only about 15% to
25% of their tilled soil ever gets planted.  (You know,
those big walking rows in between).  Meanwhile you are using
4 times the amount of water that you really need, doing far
more weeding than you need to, and have wasted your time
tilling 4 times the land you need to.  Why?  Because nobody
ever stops to think that there's probably a better way to
do it on a smaller scale (a la "Square Foot Gardening" )

I'm sure if I gave it 10 minutes thought, I could come up
with a much larger list of things I see blindly recited all
over the place.

Don't get me wrong, because I read those books, too.  And
there's lots of useful information there, as you point out.
But you have to be very careful when reading it because the
goals of a large-scale brewer are very different from our
goals.  For one thing, they are willing to sacrifice flavour
for shelf-life (and that's a pretty big thing).  But on a
homebrew level we don't even have to worry about that because
we don't filter the yeast, and therefore get a much greater
shelf-life out of the beer.

cheers,
 -Alan


- --
Alan McKay
OS Support			amckay at nortelnetworks.com
Small Site Integration		613-765-6843 (ESN 395)
Nortel Networks
Internal : http://zftzb00d/alanmckay/
All opinions expressed are my own.


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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:16:13 -0500 
From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com>
Subject: Mash cutting

Patrick Flahie asks about mash cutting.

When I made my first batch of all grain brewed beer about 4 1/2 years ago I
saw the need to cut the mash.  As I lautered I noticed cracks forming on the
surface of the grain bed and I noticed that the water was running out via
these cracks instead of filtering through the entire mash.  I grabbed a
butter knife (really most anything will do, now I use the handle of my
stirring spoon) and made a bunch of cross hatches on the surface of the
grain bed.  You don't want to go so deep such that the fine particles you
are trying to hold back go to the run off, just deep enough to improve
filtration through the entire grain bed.  How deep you cut really is
dependent on how thick your grain bed is.  For example, if I am making a
light body beer and only have 7 pounds of grain, I just scratch the surface
about an inch deep.  For a bigger beer, where I may have 25# of grain, I
will go up to about 3 inches deep.  No specific depth measurement taken
since I was just trying to improve flow and maximize filtration.  If you
look at a commercial mash tun you may notice some of them have mash knives
that are used for the same purpose.

Rich Sieben

Not feeling particularly witty this morning, so please insert your own
phrase here.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:47:57 -0500
From: Dave Hinrichs <dhinrichs at quannon.com>
Subject: RE:Mash cutting?

As explained to me by the brewmaster at MN Brewing just take a butter knife
and cut like a cake. Not too deep, repeat a few times during the lauter. I
did this with my last batch of all grain (my third overall). It is supposed
to increase efficiency by breaking up any channeling and reduce the chance
of a stuck mash. Since I haven't done much all-grain I cannot say it made
any difference. Also my grist was a very simple 2-row recipe, though I am
using a corona mill.



>Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:22:55 -0400 (EDT)
>From: "Patrick Michael Flahie" <flahiepa at pilot.msu.edu>
>Subject: Mash cutting?

>The discussion on berliner weiss has repeatedly referred
>to cutting the mash during lautering to prevent channelling.
>I searched the archives and found nothing describing it
>(at least this year), though you would be surprised at
>how many people cut their mashtuns or Easymashers in 1999.

>Can anyone give a little insight into the process and
>benefits of this?

>Thanks a lot.  The discussion has been interesting.

 - --Patrick Flahie
  Jackson, MI
***************************************************************
* Dave Hinrichs                 E-Mail: dhinrichs at quannon.com *
* Quannon CAD Systems, Inc.             Voice: (612) 935-3367 *
* 6101 Baker Road, Suite 204              FAX: (612) 935-0409 *
* Minnetonka, MN 55345                                        *
*                http://www.quannon.com/                      *
***************************************************************


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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:01:06 -0600
From: "Trevor Good" <t.good at printwest.com>
Subject: Tinny taste / Yankees

I have a problem with my latest IPA. It came out with a metallic aftertaste
which I find unappetizing. Is there any way to remove it?
As for "yankees" all Americans born to the south of my city is a considered
a Yank.

Thanks
Trevor Good
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan



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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:03:00 -0400
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Michiganders & Michiganians

HBD-
Actually, I believe (being a third generation Michigan resident) the widely
acceptable derogatory term for someone from Michigan, especially North of the
River Raisin, is not Yankee, but "Hillbilly".  At least, that's what raises my
ire.
Normal residents from north of the Raisin seeking their post "War of Southern
Attrition" fortunes were referred to as "Carpetbaggers".
Speaking of names and labels, I now find my own name to be offensive.  In line
with Robin Griller's admonitions;

>Furthermore, it is basic politeness
>to address people in terms that they are comfortable with.

>From now on, I to be called....Loretta.
I want to have babies.

Loretta
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery  at  Chick Offender (Sandra-I was only kidding)
North and West of the Raisin Basin, MI



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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:16:01 -0500
From: Dave Hinrichs <dhinrichs at quannon.com>
Subject: First batch

In addition to Pat Babcocks wonderful post there are two things I would
like to add. If collecting used bottles wash them asap as unclean beer and
soda bottles have a tendancy to grow things, this growth is harder to
remove. Secondly when bringing the wort to a boil, pay attention to the
wort it knows when your on the phone or answering the door and it will
choose this time to boil over. It's messy and the ruler of the kitchen will
be very displeased.
***************************************************************
* Dave Hinrichs                 E-Mail: dhinrichs at quannon.com *
* Quannon CAD Systems, Inc.             Voice: (612) 935-3367 *
* 6101 Baker Road, Suite 204              FAX: (612) 935-0409 *
* Minnetonka, MN 55345                                        *
*                http://www.quannon.com/                      *
***************************************************************


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:13:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: uhlb at cobank.com
Subject: Re: 'Intellectual Sloth' and Brewing

> 
> >my attitude [...] fully embraces the RDWHAH philosophy
> Is intellectual sloth a philosophy now ?

Well, yes; it's called the modern world.  But that's another issue.

It's not intellectual sloth in this instance; it's trying to see the
forest rather than the trees.  Relax; you won't have any funny if
you're uptight.  Don't worry; you'll get beer, good beer, one way
or another.  Have a homebrew: enjoy the fruits of your labour.
  Compare this to the dominant philosophy here: be uptight, worry
constantly, what's a homebrew.  Be uptight: if you don't follow every
procedure to the appropriate tenth of a minute, you might end up with beer
that 1/144th less alcoholic, with a laboratory-measurable excess of
proteins and not nearly enough colour (why, you can tell the difference
with a measly $6,800 of equipment!  Worry constantly: if you don't
measure, remeasure, triple measure, monitor all variables (what!?  you
turned the light on _twice_ whilst racking!  you fiend in human form!) and
generally work yourself to the bone, you might find that your beer has
three extra free sodium ions (we cannot have that, can we?).  What's a
homebrew: this is _science_ man, not a hobby.
  I just make beer.  A few pounds of extract, a few pounds of grains
(going all grain this next batch I think), a few ounces of hops, mash
awhile, boil awhile, ferment awhile (don't bother to take SG; I'm not
drinking for the alcohol), rack, age awhile, prime, condition awhile and
drink.  You know what?  It turns out well.  It's better than anything I
can buy (well, except for Linemann's Kriek, but that's another story) and
tastes just fine.  And I'm not prematurely grey at the thought of having a
batch that's slightly different.

I am rather tired of those who would turn this list from discussing
brewing (the art of converting water to beer) to heady debates over the
importance of n-trinitrotoluene to the respiration cycle of the common
yeast.  OTOH I imagine that they must be getting tired of those of us who
like to brew beer (as opposed to a water-ethanol mixture containing trace
flavour particles, wh. seems to be their goal).  Perhaps it's time to
split the HBD off into two parts: the art of brewing and the science of
brewing.
  The old meanings of the words help wonderfully here: the art of brewing
is actual brewing; the science of brewing is theory.  This would be a nice
divide; those who enjoy actually making & drinking the stuff could have a
nice list which contains all sorts of recipes and techniques, and those
who like to blather for weeks over the right fraction of a nano-degree to
perform the all-important 17th amino-blatzer rest could have their own.
  Call me crazy, but I don't really care _what_ reactions go on with the
alpha-acids in Tettnanger hops when boiled with a 34.567% wheat, 64.433%
barley, 1% rye grist heated at 93.003 C for 27 minutes; I just want to
know that 3/8 wheat, 5/8 barley and a handful of rye boiled with
Tettnanger hops won't make good beer.

I understand that some people like these discussions (why
is incomprehensible to me, but then my love for Old English is
incomprehensible to almost everyone); it's just that I am tired of
scrolling through page after page after page of dry, boring, useless (to
me; I like to imagine that _someone_ finds it useful) text just to find
the one bit that is actually relevant.  Why not split things off, so that
each group can get what it needs?  There would of course be no rule
stating that one could not subscribe to _both_.

Of course, if the Digest were undigested, and people included keywords    
([Art],[Science],[Ad]), I could just filter the junk out.

I'm quite aware that I am guilty by omission; I have not posted much
beyond a quick question some months ago.  Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea
maxima culpa.  I don't really think that my recipes are good enough to
post.  But, just for laughs and giggles, I'll try to post a few today.
Consider it repayment for writing such a long screed.

I remain,
Bob Uhl

Ps.:  Yes, I do know what trinitroluene is.  And were it actually to be
found in beer, I wouldn't care (beyond storing as a bit of trivia).



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 07:34:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Edward Seymour <eseymour at yahoo.com>
Subject: Water temp.  Who you calling a Yankee,    Father's Day Red


       First, I would like to give my opinion of the HBD.  As a
newcomer (three months and three batches into the hobby)  I enjoy
reading the HBD daily.  There are some discussions that I just don't
get (yet) but others that are very informative.  Some people like to
cat-fight (non-sexist remark I hope), but we have to remember that
we're in it for good fun and great beer.  Please don't take things
personal.   When I posted here, I got a lot of warm frendly responses
with excellent advice.  As a collective, the HBD can't be beat. Enough
said.

        The water temperature in my house in Hamden CT. (on the border
of New Haven) was 60 deg. as of Wednesday.  As a rookie brewer (see
HBD# 3063) I don't have the temperature of the water in the winter,
although I can tell you that  it is cold enough that  your teeth freeze
if you brush them with just cold water in January - March timeframe
(Yes we do brush them in hot or cold weather). 

	Webster defines the term Yankee as 1)a: a native or inhabitant of New
England.  Since Connecticut IS part of the New England States, Yes I do
consider myself as a Yankee, but not a Yankee fan (GO RED SOX's).  In
this context, Mr. Morrow who was born in western PA. would be a Yankee
too.   Webster goes on to say 1)b. a native or inhabitant of the north
U.S.   This would make anyone from Michigan or Pennsylvania a Yankee.

        The definition concludes with  2) A native on inhabitant of the
United States.  This would make someone from St. Pat's in Texas a
Yankee according to someone from Australia, or someone who's
coordinates put them somewhere off the ivory coast in Africa.  
 
	Connecticut is also known as part of Southern New England, does that
mean that I'm a reb.?  : O   "The south's gonna do it again" Charlie
Daniels. <|: )

	My Father's day red ale is just about ready to bottle.  I'll rack into
the bottling bucket tonight, and bottle.  The SG has remained for the
last couple of days at 1.008.
Dave Kerr  in HBD 3065 states:
>Please post tasting notes, etc.  My money is on FG 1.018.  Any guesses
more educated than mine?  (you can send your money directly to me)
A sip of the hydrometer flask:  Tastes toastie, (if that's a word)
maybe a nutty type of flavor.  Looks semi-clear, and more of a brownish
red than what I was going for.  After a little time in the bottle and
some more in the fridge, I'll bring a bottle to the local HB store and
get a more educated translation.    All that I really care about is
"Does it taste good to me".  ; ) 

Regards,
Edward Seymour
Brewer, bottle washer
Hamden CT.
   "You made it, now you CLEAN it"  Beverly Seymour




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:52:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: uhlb at cobank.com
Subject: Bitter #1

I was in London, Flanders, northern France and Paris this January
(studying the Great War) and fell completely and totally in love with
British bitters.  Of course it's impossible to find Real Ale in the states
(at least in Texas, in a dry town, when you're twenty), so I dedicated
myself to duplicating bitters.
  Of course, as time passes my memory of a bitter becomes hazier and
hazier.  What I now consider a bitter prob. bears only a passing
resemblance to what I drank by the gallon in London.  But it is tasty, it
is good and it is something along the lines of a bitter.
  Here is my first recipe.

Bitter #1
=========
4 lbs. pale LME
3 lbs. amber LME
1/2 lb. crystal malt
a dollop of dark LME
6 HBUs Cascade
6 HBUs Fuggles
1/2 oz. Fuggles (dry hops)
1 tbsp. gypsum

Make up as usual.  Put grains and gypsum in a gallon or so of water.
Bring to a boil slowly.  Remove grains.  Add extracts, water and all but
1/2 oz. boiling hops, boil for 60 minutes, add remaining half oz., boil
for 8-12 minutes.  You may need to add water during the boil to keep
things thin enough.  Cool, rack to fermenter, add water to 5 gallons,
pitch yeast.
  Rack over to secondary on top of remaining 1/2 oz. of hops after 3-4
days (when fermentation subsides). Age in secondary a week or so.  Prime
and bottle.

Notes
- -----
When I made this it was 3 am (I brew late in my dorm's kitcen) and I
wasn't all there (way too tired).  I let it boil down to almost a syrupy
consistency.  The hops were _coated_ with sticky wort.  I was throwing
them away until I realised that most of my wort was going with them.  So I
retrieved the hops from the trash, washed them with some of my fill-up
water and managed to get enough wort.  Then I pitched a Wyeast culture
that I'd made up a day or so earlier and hoped that the yeast would take
before the bacteria would.
  Two days later, the beer was still and not fermenting.  I was sick with
worry (I had ruined the wort by all that mucking about with boiling down
too low and washing hops, and now my yeast wouldn't take).  So I pitched a
package of Windsor or Nottingham (made up with warm water and a spoon of
sugar to get it going).  The beer fermented, I bottled and it came out
near-perfect.  There's a lesson there.
  It tastes a bit weedy.  Next time I'm using only Fuggles and British
malts.  British beer needs British ingredients.

Robert Uhl

Ps.: Now that I'm twenty-one in Denver, I find that I still cannot find a
decent ale.  I'm moving to London;-)




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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:52:44 -0500
From: Eric Schoville <eschovil at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Carbonating Kegs

All,

	Has anyone looked into the advantages/disadvantages between
force carbonating a keg of beer vs. priming a keg and
letting it naturally carbonate?

	Also, almost all of my ales are cloudy.  Does anyone have
any recommendations on how to fix this problem?  For my
ales, I typically use Hugh Baird 2-row pale ale malt using a
single infusion mash.  I almost always add irish moss to the
boil.  I don't have this problem with my lagers.

Thanks,

Eric Schoville
Flower Mound, TX
http://home1.gte.net/rschovil/beer


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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:06:14 -0600 (MDT)
From: uhlb at cobank.com
Subject: Bitter #2

See previous message for history.

Bitter #2
=========
8 lbs. pale LME
dollop of dark LME
1 lb. crystal malt
Fuggles for about 13 HBUs (boiling hops)
1/2 oz. Fuggles (dry hops)
1 tbsp. gypsum

Add gypsum & grains to a gallon of water.  Bring slowly to boil.  Remove
grains and add extracts and all but 1/2 oz. of boiling hops.  Boil for an
hour.  Add last 1/2 oz boiling hops.  Boil 8-12 minutes.  Cool, rack and
pitch.  Rack to secondary on top of dry hops after 3-4 days.  Age about a
week.  Rack, prime & bottle.

Notes
- -----
Much better-made batch than last time.  The Wyeast really took off (London
III IIRC), the brewing went smoothly.  The beer is good, better than last
time (a bit less weedy); switching to all-British really helped.  It
tasted best after taking home to Denver (it sat in the boot the entire
drive; maybe heat is actually _good_ for a beer); of course, any real beer
tastes good in Denver (for a state with so many microbreweries, it sure is
hard to find good beer).






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:06:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: uhlb at cobank.com
Subject: Bitter #3

See previous messages for history.

Bitter #3
=========
6 lbs. pale LME
1 lb. caramel malt
1/2 lb. victory malt
6 HBUs East Kent Goldings
6 HBUs Fuggles
1/2 oz. EKG (dry hops)

Put grains in 2 gal. water, mashe at 150-160 for 1 hour.  Dump in bucket
with false bottom, sparge with 2 gal. water.  Bring wort up to 7 gal., add
extracts.  Boil for 30 min.  Add hops, boil for 60 min. Cool, rack, pitch.
Rack to secondary and dry hops after 3-4 days.  Age for about a week.
Rack, prime, bottle, condition.

Notes
- -----
Unlike my previous bitters, this one was made in Denver.  Bowing to the
difference in conditions (at school I used purified water, in Denver I use
hard water), and acting on some advice, I modified the recipe somewhat.
It came out well.

I recently aquired a 15-gal. aluminium pot.  Very nice, but I was unable
to actually get the wort to a boil (it just sort of simmered).  Worrisome,
but it came out anyway.  I am getting a burner for next time.  Also, there
was a slight off-flavour, wh. is either from uncured alumnium (fixing that
with a vinegar/water boil) or from mashing too long.  No big deal; tastes
great after a few weeks in the cellar and a few days in the fridge.

The Goldings really work well.  I don't think that I am going to dry hop
my next batch; I wonder if dry hopping is really right for the style.
We'll see how it turns out.

Robert Uhl





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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:52:48 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re: Yankees and brewing survey proposal

I liked and I think my southern relatives would agree with the Damn Yankees
post.
But as a born and raised Michigander, I can tell you unequivocally that
Michiganders are not Yankees, they are Tigers!

I have an idea. What if Pat and Mark work up a Survey form on the HBD
website that we all could fill out to describe how we brew? You know,
whether we use extract or all grain, heat sanitize, iodophor, bleach,
couterflow or immersion chill or waterbath, primarily ales or lagers, keg
or bottle, everything!
I think it would be really interesting. We could break out the results by
country or region or whatever.
Hmmm, as I think about the implications of such a survey, it seems like it
would have a lot of marketing potential, oh well, maybe it would reassure
an increasingly paranoid competitive industry. We would want it to be
anonymous probably, but I still think it would be a good idea for us as a
forum.

John Palmer
Monrovia, CA
(Midland, MI)


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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:31:45 -0400
From: Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Zymurgy dishwasher article

Greetings,

I find it interesting and disturbing that the only discussion
surrounding the recent Zymurgy article on dishwasher bottle
sanitization was concerned entirely with the potential sexist
implications of the now famous photo of a woman loading a dishwasher.
 Enough has been said about that.  Has anyone read the article?  Or
have you just been looking at the pictures?  It was a decent article.
 The lab procedures were thorough and well described.  The topic is
of importance to a large percentage of the homebrewing population. 
And the conclusions can have significant impact on the quality of
your bottled beer depending on the techniques you have been
following.  For a change, I'd like to say hats off to AHA for
publishing a relevant and detailed article.

(The usual disqualifiers apply)

- --Dave


Dave Humes                             >>humesdg1 at earthlink.net<<




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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:04:07 -0700 
From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com>
Subject: new moniker

collective homebrew conscience_

i would like to announce that my new preferred name is dr. hfuhhrruhrrruhrr.
please use this in all references to my submissions here.

brew hard,

dr. hfuhhrruhrruhrr
stl mo


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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:18:08 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: North/South

Just a comment.

After listening to my "southern" relatives repeatedly spouting such phrases
as "The South will rise again", I concocked the following.

1) The Civil War ended over 100 years ago.

2) You Southerners are still fighting the Civil War.

3) No one from the north is fighting back.

4) You still haven't been able to win. 

5) Shut up about it and talk about something relevant.

They have ever since.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY

PS 

All my ancestors, including the ones that begot my "southern" relatives had
nothing to do with the Civil War.  They were all in Europe until the 1900s 



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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 17:20:23 -0400
From: "Eric R. Tepe" <erictepe at fuse.net>
Subject: Red Beer

Collective,

I would like to make a red lager for my end of season softball cookout.
I have tried to make a red beer before and it was more brown than red. I
would like to nice glowing red not a deep ruby red that is too dark for
the bud drinkers. Does anyone have a proven recipe or mix of grains that
they would be willing to share.
Private e-mail is ok

Thanks in advance to all that respond.
Eric R. Tepe


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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:36:40 EDT
From: JazzNball at aol.com
Subject: Old foghorn clone

I would like to brew a clone of Anchor's Old Foghorn Barleywine. I brew all 
grain batches using a sanke keg and a burner. I usually keg my beers and I 
can temperature regulate the fermentation. Please send any recipes or 
recommendations.

Thanks,
Keith Reise
Huntington Beach, CA


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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 17:49:21 -0400
From: Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Weissheimer Pils Malt (Hazy Kolsch)

Greetings,

I posted on the hazy Kolsch subject several days ago in the midst of
the July 4th holiday and all the hype over the coming out of the
Pivos and their subsequent seccession.  Darn shame about the latter. 
I hope they reconsider. 

Now that things have settled down a little, I'd like to float my
question again.  I think there's got to be someone out there who has
used Weissheimer Pils malt who has an opinion on whether or not it
needs a protein rest.  The typical specs for the malt say it is well
modified and should work well in an infusion mash.  But, the haze in
this Kolsch just won't quit.  I've considered renaming it a
HefeKolsch,
but that sounds more like a beer made from cow parts.  It's a little
bitter yet, so I may get away with calling it an unfiltered Alt. 
But, 
it is supposed to be Kolsch and it should be clear.

I did get one reply on the subject from Greg (thanks) telling me to
be
patient.  That is generally not in my nature, which makes me wonder 
how I ever got into this hobby in the first place.  It's been in cold

storage now for about a month at 35F.  I would think that would be 
enough to drop out even the poorest flocculators and most chill
haze.  Could suspended yeast be causing haze after this much time
in cold storage?  The yeast in this case is White Labs German Ale/
Kolsch.

Thanks.


Dave Humes                             >>humesdg1 at earthlink.net<<




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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:21:17 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: Czech beer questions

Struggling through a massive computer crash (I think someone crapped a weenie
through my hard disk?) So I hope this has not been posted previously.

I previously offered to let some Czech brewmasters field questions
(unbeknownst to them).

The first is in place (Sladek Jedeno), and he said "ok".

Let me introduce this weeks guest speaker:

His real name is Vaclav Chloeb, and has worked in the Czech brewing industry
for 26 years.  I have always found his thinking and methods original (the only
brewmaster I know who actually boils "hop tea" and tastes it before
introducing the new shipment in the process).

By my way of thinking (taste) produced the best beer in the world between
1983- 1989.  More recent and objective accolades are: Voted the best 10 degree
beer in the Czech Republic in 1996. Second place in the "black" beer category
in 1997, and again best 10 degree in 1998.

I've had a faucet plugged into this guy's brain for many years, and there
seems to be an unlimited resource there.

Many of the questions I've received thus far seem to deal with "how can you
make a Czech beer, not using Czech techniques or material?" (not decocting, or
using other malt sources).  I can certainly ask that, but there might be
people better informed on these issues (Hell! I might be one of them!).

I would think that your time would be better served asking things about
EXACTLY how and why Czech beers are now made, and have been made..... doing
that sure has helped me, and I'm a bit of a lost cause, so you'll probably do
even better.

There is a bit of a time push on this, as Vaclav will only be here until
Tuesday (99-07-13), but I have something to do on Monday, so that really only
leaves Sunday for translating.

In the midst of my computer going belly up, it seems my incoming mail is
loaded with everything between sophomoric advice on how I should interpret
scientific material, and indeed, the cultural evolution of mankind, to videos
of people who stuff sausages up there backsides.... can't say I'm thrilled by
either, but I'm pretty sure I prefer the latter. 

(wonder what caused this.... duh?)

Due to this, it might be a good idea to include something like "Czech beer
questions" in the subject line, so it does not get lost between the "banal and
the bizarre"... feel free to asign these titles to the above cited examples in
which ever order you choose.

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:27:54 EDT
From: AVARDTWINS at aol.com
Subject: Yankees

You guys don't seem to understand. . .being a Yankee is a good thing. 

Being a Yankee that brews beer. . . that's a damn good thing.

Being a Damn Yankee. . .that just being too stupid to know it was better to 
live in the North, where we can lager in our garage.

John B. Avard, D.C.
New Hampshire


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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:54:52 -0700
From: "Dana H. Edgell" <edgell at cari.net>
Subject: Yankees & chilling beer


It seems that most of the definitions put forward seem to imply that
Yankees are whoever the Southern folks call Yankees. This doesn't make a
lot of sense. I mean a few decades ago anyone who looked oriental was
called a "chinaman" by westerners but that didn't make them Chinese.

My daugther-in-law, who is from the south, constantly calls me a Yankee
despite the fact that she know's I'm not even an American! Just goes to
show you that, just because some southerner calls someone a Yankee doesn't
mean they are correct.

I always thought that true yankees were from New England and had that
yankee drawl.

Uh-Oh, I had better insert a brewing note before I go to justify this waste
of space. Does anyone out there with warm chilling water, pre-cool it
further with an imersion coil in ice/water? If so can you give any details
about how this performs? i.e. temperature differential, gal/min, coil
length etc.


Dana,
a Canuck, not a Yankee, eh!

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell              mailto:edgell at cari.net
San Diego, CA            http://www.quantum-net.com/edge_ale




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Date: 10 Jul 1999 00:53:38 -0000
From: Lester Long <LesterLong at redneck.efga.org>
Subject: The Lady and the Dishwasher

Now that I've come out of the woods and left my Squirrel ancestry behind, I
thought I'd chime in on the lady and the dishwasher.

Kris G. Mueller, in a recent HBD, decried the use of an allegedly sexist photo
in Zymurgy magazine.  She was chagrined when all she received from HBD readers
were flip responses.  I hereby offer a more practical response, tied to the
actual utility of Zymurgy as previously degreed in this forum (some dissenters
raised their voices, but they were quickly slapped down by more expert
opinionators).

I don't know how long you've been reading this forum Kris, but what did you
expect the "collective" to do?  Boycott Zymurgy?
That magazine is used by all self-respecting people in this forum as (*)-wipe. 
A lady at the dishwasher is thus exactly equivalent to an autographed picture
of the pope, as long as the paper stock and texture don't vary much.  When
Zymurgy starts including sandpaper inserts, then you'll hear some howls of
protest from this bunch.

In fact, you should know that there are those in this forum who are all for
dismantling the AHA brick by brick and driving its messiah, Charlie Papazian,
out into the wilderness, there to eat bugs until he dies.  After ceremonially
stripping him of his unearned "Professor Surfeit" title, of course.

Lester Long
(No, that is NOT my real name, but I always did like the way it sounds!)




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