---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Hole in fridge (fridge)
  Measuring Fermentation Progress ("John Robinson")
  good gaskets made to plug the hole (Alan Monaghan)
  skunkiness/trub removal/apology ("Stephen Alexander")
  Sealing fridge holes ("C.D. Pritchard")
  michiganders and other yankees? ("glyn crossno")
  A good looking hole in fridge ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Mashmixer Motors ("BeerLvr")
  Maximizing Detroit 2000 (Biergiek)
  RE: Brewchicks, NOT !! , plus an actual brew type question (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE:Maximizing Detroit 2000 (Eric.Fouch)
  Michigonie watuh temps and sech y'all. (Pat Babcock)
  Re: Who care(s); we should; not always ("Stephen Alexander")
  Clinitest/'sperments ("Stephen Alexander")
  Mash cutting? ("Patrick Michael Flahie")
  Re: Michiganders and other yankees ("Kelly")
  CO2 line gaskets ("Kensler, Paul")
  Re: 8 Hour Brew Session Yields 1.125 OG BW (Spencer W Thomas)
  re where has the irony gone? Pivo, pivo, pivo (Robin Griller)
  yankees/cold beer storage ("Bayer, Mark A")
  Michiganders and other Yankees? ("James R. Vavra")
  First batch (Bryan L Gros)
  Kyoto ("Dana H. Edgell")
  re-pitching Wyeast 3068... any good recipe ideas? ("Riedel, Dave")
  RE: Benzene drums (Gary D Hipple)
  Excellent spread sheet for labels? (Joy Hansen)
  Homebrewed CIP (Harlan Bauer)
  Dishwashers,yankees and porter (Rick Lassabe)
  Home brew (William Frazier)
  Refractive Index (William Frazier)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:12:25 -0400
From: fridge at kalamazoo.net
Subject: Hole in fridge

Greetings folks,

 In HBD#3077, Sandy C. asked for a tidy way to finish the holes in 
her fridge where the CO2 lines enter. I was faced with the same 
situation and visited my local hardware store's electrical department. 
There I found nice rubber grommets in various sizes. I brought a 
sample of my gas line with me and found a grommet that was a snug 
fit on the line. I then drilled correct size hole in my fridge for the 
grommet. The end result is a clean, air-tight seal and a finished look. 
Other sources for grommets might be a Radio Shack or other 
electronic store.

 Yankee or not, since I live in Michigan I'll post a datapoint for those 
interested in water temperature in various parts of the country. I 
have well water and the temperature tested at 48 degrees F when I 
checked it last monday. I haven't checked it during the winter 
months so I don't know if it varies much.

Hope this helps!

Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridge at kalamazoo.net



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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:16:39 -0300
From: "John Robinson" <robinson at novalistech.com>
Subject: Measuring Fermentation Progress

Hi all,

Steve's post on measuring fermentation progress raises a number of 
interesting related questions to my mind.  For a long time, I have 
considered the lag phase to be from pitching to one of several 
things:

1) first sign of krausen
2) first sign of positive pressure
3) first sign of pH drop

You get the idea, I'm sure.  It would seem to me that what we really 
need to help determine the rate at which fermentation occurs and the 
onset of fermentation and various other parameters is first and 
foremost a better system for acquiring samples after the wort has 
been placed in the fermentor.

A couple of drops of fermenting wort would allow one to chart the 
drop in gravity over time if the sugar were measured with a 
refractometer.  The real issue to my thinking is getting that sample 
without contaminating the batch.

I think one thing that would be very worth while would be to chart 
time, temperature and SG in a 3D plot for different yeasts with a 
'standard' wort.  Sounds like a good BT article to me! :)

A proper set of definitions would be required WRT lag time, and other 
stages in the fermentation process.  Any takers?


- ---
John Robinson              "The most basic rule of survival in any situation is:
Technical Architect         Never look like food." - Park Ranger. 
NovaLIS Technologies       
robinson at novalistech.com    
                           


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Date: 	Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:35:51 -0400 
From: Alan Monaghan <AlanM at Gardnerweb.com>
Subject: good gaskets made to plug the hole

Sandra L Cockerham 	
Poses the question about plugging the hole in the side of the refer for the
CO2 line. I called the Rapid (standard disclaimer applies) folks and they
set me up with one of the Stainless fittings used in Picnic Coolers and we
just added another nipple assembly on the other end instead of the tap. This
worked better than I could has asked as it looks very professional and goes
right thru the refer. 

				"You don't want to argue with anyone larger
than your van." 
				- Red Green 
Alan G. Monaghan
Gardner Publications, Inc.
AlanM at Gardnerweb.com <mailto:AlanM at Gardnerweb.com> 



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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:46:08 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: skunkiness/trub removal/apology


In late May I purchased a 6-er of Spaten Lager from a grocery and dominant
flavor was skunkus maximus.  Totally undrinkable - undoubtedly from the
fluorescent lights and green bottles.  I left the remaining 5 bottle in the
dark at ~58-60F and tasted one yesterday (just under 5 weeks storage time).
Amazing but there is only a faint residual skunkiness, perceptible but not
significant.  Think I'll let 'em go a couple more weeks tho' basically the
malady is cured.  Hat's off AlK.

===
Cold trub removal ....
Lee Bogardus wants to remove cold break and Keith MacNeil responds with
several methods ... among them ...

Whirlpooling -
Whirlpooling cannot help with cold trub.  I'd quote the people who know, and
who have studied the matter in depth except then the neo-Luddites would
accuse me of being a dogmatic librarian or perhaps burn me as a witch.
even the big boys don't claim it will remove
*cold* break.

3Keith says >I usually rack into secondary after a week (2 at the most)
I agree that one valid reason for secondary transfer is cold
trub removal - but to remove trub effects the transfer needs to take place
early - like a day or two.   For lagers a trub removal transfer at 12-24
hours and a secondary/lager transfer at  3-14 days.  For ales
24-36 hours for the secondary transfer is the norm.  If your normal gravity
ale is still fermenting on day 7-14 then you should be busy 'relaxing,
not worrying and having a homebrew' over bigger problems than trub.

Cold chill/transfer.
Cold chilling wort (even to near freezing temps) and allowing for cold trub
sedimentation is very effective in my experience.  This level of effort is
IMO only justified for pilsners and other delicately flavored styles.  I've
done side-by-sides and do prefer the CB removed pils' more.  Others
argue that it is never justified and the mega-brewers don't bother with
their lghtly flavored lagers.

Centrifugation is impractical and aeration/floatation of trub appears to me
to be ineffective in HB sized containers (might work for several meter deep
fermentors).  Keiselguhr filtratation is excessive effort IMO. I guess the
good news is that removal of the large lumpy *hot* break along with the
majority of the entrapped fatty acids and lipids is the biggest flavor
issue.  For the tiny cold break particles, flavor impact is less.

>my attitude [...] fully embraces the RDWHAH philosophy
Is intellectual sloth a philosophy now ?

==
Apologies to HBD re Phil Yates.  Attempted to cancel yesterday's post and
take the
matter offline, but not in time.  'Nuff said,

 -S (full name appears above for the technically impaired)




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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:56:37
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: Sealing fridge holes

>Sandra L Cockerham asked:

>Has anyone found any good gaskets made to plug the hole I intend to 
>drill in the side of the old Kenmore to put the CO(subscript: 2) 
>line through ?  

The Fridge Guy might have a better handle on it, but I use Duct Seal.  It
resembles a sticky clay and is used in the HVAC and electrical trades to
seal stuff.  Pick it up at a good building supply store or a HVAC or
electricial supply house.  Has hundreds of uses- from sticking a temp.
sensor to the inside of the fridge or sealing around a fermenter airlock to
assessing the terminal ballastics of projectiles.


c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/  



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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:37:29 -0500
From: "glyn crossno" <crossno at tnns.net>
Subject: michiganders and other yankees?

Any american not born in the south is a yankee.  Any american not born
in the south living in the south is a DA#$ yankee.

Glyn Crossno
American by Birth
Southern by the grace of Nature



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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:02:27 -0700
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: A good looking hole in fridge

Sandy C. asks about a way to make her CO2 hole in the fridge look
better.


My thought on it is to use a flange ring that goes around the tap
shank.  Y'know-- the black plastic or metal ring that flares out to
cover the hole that the tap sticks out of?  You'll need to put gaskets
around the hose on both sides of the fridge and flange to hold the hose
and flange in place.   And for sealing, I just use the expandable foam
that comes in the aerosol bottle.  A more visual explanation:

    Fridge Wall
         |     |
         |     |\
         |     |  \   <----Flange
__== |     |__\==____
__________|______CO2 Line
     ==|     |   / == <-------Gaskets on either side
         |     |  /
         |     |/
         |     |




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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:11:01 -0400
From: "BeerLvr" <Beerlvr at hrfn.net>
Subject: Mashmixer Motors

I saw a web site the other day that had a mash mixer on it.  The individual
used an Ice cream maker motor and paddle.  I have picked up a few of these
in the past at thrift stores and garage sales for ~$5 or so.  Seems that
that might provide a high torque motor that should work.

Mike Pensinger
BeerLvr at hrfn.net



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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:35:00 EDT
From: Biergiek at aol.com
Subject:  Maximizing Detroit 2000

>I apologize for this somewhat regional post, but, as >most now know, the 
2000 AHA NHC is slated for the Metro >Detroit Michigan area. A group is 
forming, led by Rex >Halfpenny, to organize and coordinate this event. The
>successful execution of the 2000 AHA NHC will depend on >the concerted 
efforts of MANY volunteers from across >the state (and anywhere else said 
volunteers wish to >come from...). 

How can I contact Rex.  I would like to nominate Eric Fouch and the Brown Eye 
Gang of Western Michigan as Directors of Entertainment.  Lets make this event 
the best NHC ever!

Kyle




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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:36:37 -0500 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Brewchicks, NOT !! , plus an actual brew type question

From: Sandra L Cockerham <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com>

>Has anyone found any good gaskets made to plug
>the hole I intend to drill in
>the side of the old Kenmore to put the CO(subscript: 2) line through ?  I
have
>seen duct tape used, but I would like something
>"more finished."

You might consider using a rubber stopper, like we use for fermenters and
airlocks, but pass the line through the hole, then push the correct sized
stopper into the hole in your fridge.

If you want to plug a hole after you no longer use it, I have seen snap-in
metal buttons that come in various sizes, but I  have no idea where you
could buy one.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:59:00 -0400
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: RE:Maximizing Detroit 2000

Rex Halfpenny can be reached at:

mibeerguyd at aol.com

I am honored at this nomination, and will strive to fulfill my post to the
best of my ability.

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewry
Brown Eye Guys Division
Kentwood, MI



- ------------------( Forwarded letter 1 follows )--------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:35:00 EDT
To: post@hbd.org
Cc: todd.ed, jason.gorman, eric.fouch
From: Biergiek at aol.com
Subject: Maximizing Detroit 2000

>I apologize for this somewhat regional post, but, as >most now know, the
2000 AHA NHC is slated for the Metro >Detroit Michigan area. A group is
forming, led by Rex >Halfpenny, to organize and coordinate this event. The
>successful execution of the 2000 AHA NHC will depend on >the concerted
efforts of MANY volunteers from across >the state (and anywhere else said
volunteers wish to >come from...).

How can I contact Rex.  I would like to nominate Eric Fouch and the Brown Eye
Gang of Western Michigan as Directors of Entertainment.  Lets make this event
the best NHC ever!

Kyle




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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:33:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: Michigonie watuh temps and sech y'all.

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

St. Pat's asks:

> I'm curious about the water temp and associated cooling rates for you
> michiganders and other yankees.

Well, pard, mah watuh is about fity sevun duhgrays in thu summuh. With uh
countuh-flow chilluh, ah kin cool mah wut tah butween sixty-foah and
sixty-eight duhgrays jest as fast as ah kin pump it through with a .25HP
pump. That's duhgrays in fahrenhot, y'all.

(For yankee translation, send private e-mail.)

:-)

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:15:18 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Who care(s); we should; not always

 Alan McKay writes ...
>Though I do agree that we can sometimes benefit from what
>the Big Boys are doing, [...] not everything the Big Boys do
>can be applied to what we do on a small scale.

You might recall that I made the same point re: some of the stuff coming
from some recent Siebel grads last year.

>I think someone who blindly recites the dogma from the Big Boys
>without ever giving a second thought [...]

I don't see much blind recitation - do you Alan ?

HSA ?  You'd probably be interested in a paper under my nose
that tracks flavor development of 6 beers over 6 months at room temps.
Chemical assays, tasting panels and finally correlation with the production
methods.  Of course it's just dogma from some well instrumented
and educated guys, and not in Dr.Pivo's cellar. And it appears in one of
those damnable books - from a library no less.  Guess you prefer to live
with the single data point from Dr.Pivo as the last word on the
matter - right ?  Where's the dogma now ?

I also see often are HBers who foolishly assume that a 15gal
cylindro-conical will work like an 15 bbl one without understanding the
importance of metabolically induced thermal currents involved.  It's
all there in the books and journals that are so despised by some.
We can't blame the big boys for dogma when the problem is our
own unwillingness to pay attention to these details.

The big guys do (or support) science and apply it to their own ends
very effectively (tho' w/ profit not flavor in mind). They are not
bound by any dogma.  We little guys sometimes take the methods of
the big guys wholesale without understanding the context, limitations or
intended ends of the method.  It's the "dogma of the little guys"  who
don't bothering to understand the reasons for the methods, yet
applying them anyway.

When a technical question comes up - whether the fermentability of a
particular sugar or a metabolic details of yeast or the flavor
impact of cold trub you can be fairly certain the books and journals
 - to the extent that studies are available and within their context - say
accurate things.  What you should never count on is that the
commercial methods derived from this science are directly applicable
to HB.

Dave Houseman says ...
>Homebrewers can learn from the major breweries lessons in
>quality control and consistency.

I would agree - but of course the neo-Luddites would just throw more stones.
The new issues for HBD are such pithy stuff as whether to wear kilts or
lederhosen,
or how to swing a cat.  How do you technophobes mash without thermometers
anyway ?

 -S




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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:40:36 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Clinitest/'sperments

Jim Liddel writes ...

>I tend to keep the experimental info to a small group of folks.  

Posting experiments just leads to emails from folks who reject
your result but want to perform 100 times more work in order
prove.  Science by ignoring contrary data is well developed
here.. Better to discuss the plaid needed on that brewing kilt.

>I for one suggest the
>Clinitest protocol be made available for review by the
>whole group.  I for one think that the protocol as it now stands is really
>ill conceived.


Protocol ?  Usually a statement of the hypothesis being
tested comes before defining a protocol.  Scott red tartan
will solve this problem no doubt.

 -S




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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:22:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Patrick Michael Flahie" <flahiepa at pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Mash cutting?

The discussion on berliner weiss has repeatedly referred
to cutting the mash during lautering to prevent channelling.
I searched the archives and found nothing describing it
(at least this year), though you would be surprised at
how many people cut their mashtuns or Easymashers in 1999.

Can anyone give a little insight into the process and
benefits of this?

Thanks a lot.  The discussion has been interesting.

- --Patrick Flahie
  Jackson, MI


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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:45:07 -0500
From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: Re: Michiganders and other yankees

Well, I'm originally from Arkansas, and considered myself a true
southerner...however, since moving to New Orleans, they told me they
consider ANYONE born north of I-10 to be a yankee.  I may question that
one....but, I would consider anyone north of TN to be one.....

But, the war of northern agression has long since passed, and I'm willing to
drink good beer with just about anyone.....

:-)

Kelly



Quoted Stuff:
- ------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:14:42 -0400
From: Bret Morrow <bret.morrow at yale.edu>
Subject: michiganders and other yankees?

<snip>
What!  People from Michigan are not Yankees.  In fact, I don't even
consider people born in CT to be Yankees.  Maybe, Chris in Dover, NH or
Paul in Vermont, but not Michigan.  Heck, I was born in western PA, and
there is no way I would consider myself a Yankee.  I really thought it
was just a couple of counties in Maine where the natives are true Yanks.

<snip>




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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:59:22 -0500 
From: "Kensler, Paul" <paul.kensler at wilcom.com>
Subject: CO2 line gaskets

Sandy,
I use one of those bungs from a 5L minikeg.  You can drill a hole through
the fridge that the bung will fit (measure it, but I think its 7/8"), and a
typical CO2 tube will fit snugly through.  You might need some silicone
lubricant or water to help it slide through.  Of course, you have to feed
the tube through before adding any hose barbs or connectors at the end, but
I expect this will be a fairly permanent setup.  


Sandy C. said:
"Has anyone found any good gaskets made to plug the hole I intend to drill
in the side of the old Kenmore to put the CO2 line through?"

Paul Kensler
Plano, TX


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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 13:17:53 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: 8 Hour Brew Session Yields 1.125 OG BW 

>>>>> "Charley" == Charley Burns <cburns at jps.net> writes:

    Charley> The question I have is, will that extended boiling time
    Charley> screw up the barleywine. 

I think just the opposite.  But it depends on what you're trying for.

A friend makes a beer that is very close to Thomas Hardy's Old Ale.
His standard procedure include a 6-hour boil.  He believes that the
boil is essential to developing the desired flavor profile.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:50:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca>
Subject: re where has the irony gone? Pivo, pivo, pivo

Hi all,

I hesitate to enter this discussion for the same reasons that I rarely
post here: I'm a relatively newborn brewer, but more importantly, the
atmosphere on the digest is frankly often rude and hostile. I guess that
makes it the same reason that the Pivos have all gone. Where have all the
Pivos gone? They got sick of the hostility I suspect. 

However, I felt that I had to respond to Mr. Alexander's post, to point
out that due to an apparent lack of a sense of irony and an apparent
unwillingness to use basic politeness, Mr Alexander has missed the point
of 'Dr Pivo' entirely. Mr Alexander writes that 'Jeff wasn't attempting to
deceive, but the pseudonym he used carried undeserved authority'. Such a
statement makes my two points above. 

First, Mr Alexander apparently never noticed that the name Dr Pivo was
*ironic*. How could anyone imagine that the person who was arguing
*against* the various claims to science made in the digest, the person who
humourously *undermined* claims to scientific knowledge, the person who
denied that *any* individual or group of individuals 'possessed' the claim
to scientific knowledge as property, could be calling himself Dr Pivo
*except* as an ironic reference to the very claims that he was arguing
against? The name was a humourous, ironic, symbolic representation of Dr.
Pivo's own position and role here; the non-Dr pushed to humourously
diagnose and disabuse us of our self-confusions about our possessing truth
and science. Thus the assertion made about 'undeserved authority' by Mr
Alexander here, and more brutally by another gentleman back a month or so
(and Mr Alexander is correct in stating that his own post back then was by
far the more restrained of the two), is utterly ludicrous. There was no
claim to authority made through the name; in fact, the point of the
name was *the exact opposite* of that presumed by Mr Alexender. It was
*part and parcel* of the humour and debunking Dr Pivo was carrying out, 
not a claim to authority. The misrecognition of the humour
behind the name just demonstrates that Dr Pivo had correctly identified
the humourlessness and lack of imagination of the dour claims to science
made by some around here.

Second, regarding basic politeness. Here there are two basic points: the 
first is that neither Mr Alexander, nor the other gentleman previously,
seem to realize that their statements about 'unearned' titles and
'undeserved' authority are simple rudeness. To say to someone, I won't
call you X, because you haven't earned it is insulting. What they have
done is misrecognized the meaning of the name; attached a positive
evaluation to the name; described this evaluation; then told someone
'you're a bum, you don't measure up'. Very gentlemanly. Do people not
recognize this as basic bad manners? Furthermore, it is basic politeness
to address people in terms that they are comfortable with. It is impolite
for me to insist on using someone's first name, if they prefer Mr or Ms or
Mrs X, for example. In different circumstances and locations people wish
to be named in different ways. In particular, on the net it is not
uncommon for people to use pseudonyms; it is a generally accepted
practice. When someone chooses to be called by a certain name in a given
forum, especially in this case as Dr Pivo made no attempt
whatsoever to conceal himself behind the name, it is basic netiquette to
use that name. To insist on 'Jeff' rather than Dr Pivo is, imho, simple
bad manners. It is, of course, of a piece with calling someone a 'whiney
victim'.

In conclusion, my apologies: first for discussing manners. Before I get
flamed all to hell, I know it is not my role to give lectures on manners
and apologize if anyone feels that I have done so and inappropriately.
Second, I apologize to Mr Alexander if he would prefer not to be called Mr
Alexander. Given the touchy subject discussed here, I thought it better to
be as careful as possible regarding politeness. Finally, I apologize
for the length of this non-brewing post.

Donning asbestos...

Yours sincerely,

Robin Griller



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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:58:43 -0700 
From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com>
Subject: yankees/cold beer storage

collective homebrew conscience_

bret morrow wrote:

>What!  People from Michigan are not Yankees.  In fact, I don't even
>consider people born in CT to be Yankees.  Maybe, Chris in Dover, NH or
>Paul in Vermont, but not Michigan.  Heck, I was born in western PA, and
>there is no way I would consider myself a Yankee.  I really thought it
>was just a couple of counties in Maine where the natives are true Yanks.


from a native of southern illinois who lived in atlanta for a few years,
here's how to find out if you're a yankee: examine your home state's history
in the years 1861-1865.  if it didn't involve rebellion, you're a yankee.
if the maine definition were correct, we'd all be sending our congressmen to
richmond.

it only takes a few days, at most, in atlanta to discover this fact.

regarding the controversial storage of regular gravity ales at cold temps:
my experience and preference is to keep beers that i like (at that point in
their evolution) cold.  i find that beers degrade faster the warmer the
temp. is.  that's obviously based on my personal preferences.  that's why i
wrote it would be a good idea for dean to do a side-by-side experiment to
find out what his preference is.  that's ideally what we should all be doing
with all this info. that gets put out here on the hbd.  if you see a
technique or a statement that interests you, do some of your own
experimenting and find out how it affects your beer and what your subjective
opinion of that effect is.  it all comes down to your tastebuds and we're
all different in that respect.

can somebody scan the offensive zymurgy picture and post it to the web?  i'm
doing a condemning research paper on sexy brewers.  ("what's wrong with
being sexy?" - nigel tufnel)

brew hard,

mark bayer
stl mo


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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:08:48 -0500
From: "James R. Vavra" <JVavra at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Michiganders and other Yankees?

Everyone north of the Red River is a Yankee, didn't y'all know that?

>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:14:42 -0400
>From: Bret Morrow <bret.morrow at yale.edu>
>Subject: michiganders and other yankees?
>
>What!  People from Michigan are not Yankees.  In fact, I don't even
>consider people born in CT to be Yankees.  Maybe, Chris in Dover, NH or
>Paul in Vermont, but not Michigan.  Heck, I was born in western PA, and
>there is no way I would consider myself a Yankee.  I really thought it
>was just a couple of counties in Maine where the natives are true Yanks.


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Date: 08 Jul 1999 10:28:58 -0700
From: Bryan L Gros <Bryan.L.Gros at kp.org>
Subject: First batch

Clyde asked for advice for his first batch.

I've seen good advice so far, especially from Pat Babcock.

My simple advice is, to quote the god Nike, Just Do It!
The more you read about it, the more concerned and 
worried you are likely to get. Just make that first batch,
and you'll be pleasantly suprised about how easy it is and
how good the beer is.

Then, before your second batch, re-read the advice. It 
will make more sense then, and your second batch will be 
much smoother and the beer will be even better.

Most people on the HBD are interested in understanding as
much as possible about the brewing process in order to 
make the best beer possible. There are many other brewers
out there who make generic beer batch after batch, and
aren't interested in all the details behind the process.
But everyone enjoys it at their level.

Good luck.

   - Bryan
     Oakland CA


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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:05:47 -0700
From: "Dana H. Edgell" <edgell at cari.net>
Subject: Kyoto

HBD,

I will be attending a conference in Kyoto, Japan Nov 6-10 and I am looking
for some beer traveling advice?

1) Are there any good beer bars or microbrewies near Kyoto?
2) Any good saki microbreweries?
3) Are there any inexpensive Japanese hotels (like Motel 6 in the US)?

Thanks,
Dana edgell

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell              mailto:edgell at cari.net
San Diego, CA            http://www.quantum-net.com/edge_ale




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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:43:32 -0700 
From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: re-pitching Wyeast 3068... any good recipe ideas?

Folks,

Being moderately summer-y around here these days (and hoping for more),
I plan to brew a Weizen as my next batch.  Recently, I made a bit of a
promise to myself to always try to re-pitch my yeast at least once - not
so much to save money, but to save step-up effort.  So, what should I make
as the re-pitch batch?  The problem here is that 3068 Weiheinstephan is
so distinct that it's hard to make a second batch that is greatly different.
This is totally unlike the situation where you make a bitter, then re-pitch
into
a stout.

My ideas, so far, are to re-pitch into either a dunkelweizen or a roggenbier
(rye malt).  Perhaps in light of Marc's recent posts, a Berliner weisse
might
be nice.

So, since the digest has been light lately, how about some recipe
suggestions
for using 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen???

cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Canada


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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:45:39 -0500
From: Gary D Hipple <ghipple at mmmpcc.org>
Subject: RE: Benzene drums


As the owner of an RCB benzene drum and a 24 year veteran of industrial 
environmental monitoring, I do not feel there is any real danger from 
these drums.

The drum had not appreciable odor upon receipt from RCB. After cutting 
the drum (32 gal and 18 gal "halves"), I boiled water in it, and since, 2 
batches of beer. If there was any significant benzene, it's gone now... 
and it was goooood!

I bought a second drum for use at work. We use it in the laboratory to 
create gas phase standards of various organic solvents including toluene, 
acetaldehyde, etc. These gas standards are analyzed by GC/MS to verify 
the concentration and there has been no residual benzene detected, even 
in this drum which has never had water boiled in it. These standards are 
used to "calibrate" gas phase IR and FT-IR equipment for field use.

You get a bigger dose of benzene from filling up your car at gas station 
 - full serve or self serve.

Gary Hipple
St. Paul


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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:57:43 -0400
From: joytbrew at halifax.com (Joy Hansen)
Subject: Excellent spread sheet for labels?

Hi,

I'd love a copy. Send it right away!

I've been using the Avery label and printmaster to align each and every
printing so there's four on a 3" label.  Then cutting each off (square) and
sticking on bottle caps.  Sure would be nice to use the circle type.  Have
you seen a permanent adhesive label that's round?  The only ones I see at
Super Wal Mart and removable and they don't stick well to anything, thus the
3" label because it stays in place indefinitely.

BTW, the printmaster stuff allows me to put picture stuff in the background
of the description of the brew.  Sort of personalizes the bottle cap, but a
lot of trouble!

Thanks,

                                             Joy"T"Brew




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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:51:09 -0500
From: Harlan Bauer <blacksab at midwest.net>
Subject: Homebrewed CIP

OK. I got a few requests for a follow-up on Homebrewed CIP so here's a
quick primer.

ASSUMPTIONS:

1. Food-grade pump that can functionally handle 200-208F water. 

2. CIP chemicals--acid cleaner and alkaline cleaner (see below for
suggestions).

3. Food-grade hoses that can handle pumping temperatures.

4. Spray-ball (see below)

How you connect this all together is up to you, but I suggest a couple
of strategically placed tri-clamps connected to male beer-nut threads.
In this way you have maximum interchangability without the cost of going
entirely to T/C. Winged beer-nuts are great! All you need is a gasket
and no tools.

I am going to use my seldom used home system to illustrate the
procedure.

- --Building a spray ball

First, you need a lid to attach it to. I use the lid from my Mash Tun
that has a 3/8 male flare fitting pointing downward. I usually "plug in"
the sparge arm here, but this lid doubles as the CIP lid for all my
vessels. It's made from the bottom of a budwizer keg. This just sets
over the 10-in hole in the top of my kettles. It looks like a drummer's
cymbol.

1. So, start with a piece of 3/8-in copper tubing, very straight. 
2. Flare one end and slide a flare nut onto the shaft.
3. Solder a 1/4 X 1/2-in copper reducer onto the other end.
4. Solder a short length of copper pipe into the reducer along with a
cap. 
5. Drill a whole bunch on tiny (<1/8-in) holes. More on the top so the
spray is aimed at the top and sides. Don't forget a single drain hole in
the bottom (ie, the cap).

Now you've got your spray-ball. Plug that into the lid, and place the
lid onto the kettle to be cleaned, let's say the Boiling Kettle.

- --CIP regime

1. Place BK on burner and heat water.

2. Connect pump to BK outlet, a 1/2-in ball valve with a T/C. Both the
pump and the BK are fitted for T/C so I connect them with a short length
of brewer's hose, and 2 clamps.

3. From the outfeed of the pump, connect to the counter-flow HE in the
opposite direction that wort flows (the cleaning is always a
backflushing) Here, I use braided PVC hose from the hardware store and
replace it a lot because it can't take the heat. The connections are all
3/8-in flare. (Beer-nuts would be better, but I don't have the T/C
adapters).

4. Note that I have shutoff valves on both ends of the HE. This is to
allow the HE to be packed (under pressure) with iodophor after cleaning
(see below).

5. From the outfeed of the HE, another piece of braided hose is used and
connected to the top of the lid/spray-ball assembly. Flare fittings are
used.

OK, here's the circuit: BK to pump to HE, back to BK (thru the
spray-ball).

I'm sold on BIRKO's products Bru-R-EZ and acid brite. No affiliation,
just a VERY happy brewer. In their system, acid first, followed by
Bru-R-EZ. This is the opposite of most products. All I will say is that
after nearly 2 years of using this stuff in a small brewpub, the stuff
works remarkably well. Whatever you use, follow instructions for
temperature and concentrations. Measure, don't guess!

By this time, the water should be heated up. If you have a temperature
probe, turn off the heat at 120-140F. Transfer most of the water to the
HL tank, but save 1-3 gallons for the acid wash. 

1. Acid wash--recirculate 1-2 oz/gal at 120-140F for 30-min. Drain, do
not rinse.

2. Refill kettle from HL tank (1-3 gal) and heat to 140-160F

3. Alkaline wash--recirculate 2-4 oz/gal at 140-160F for 30-min. Drain.

4. Refill kettle from HL tank and bring to boil.

5. Rinse the first bit of hot water down the drain, and then re-connect
to the recirculation loop. Hot water is a great rinse and an even better
sanitizer.

6. After about 5-min of recirculation (or an in-line temp probe reads
200F), Drain.

7. Put some cold water into the BK, add iodophor at 25ppm and begin
recirc.

8. Close the farthest valve downstream on the HE slowly, and then the
other. The HE is now clean, sanitized and packed with iodophor, and the
BK is sparkleing clean, as are all the hoses, the pump, and anything you
put into the BK.

Well, there ya have it. I'd imagine this would be ideal for cleaning a
RIMS, but any 2 or 3-tier setup based on budwizer kegs lends itself well
to CIP.

TTYL,
Harlan.


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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 21:33:09 -0500
From: Rick Lassabe <bayrat at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Dishwashers,yankees and porter

Just for a little fun!!!!!
   It seems some of us are sexist for not thinking pictures of  "the
little woman" doing the dishes in an electric dish washer is degrading.
God forbid if she was at a sink with only her hands to wash them, or
even worse, at a sink with an old hand pump and had to heat the water
from the wood burning stove. How can anyone really be offended by a
picture of  someone at a dishwasher, I wash dishes, who want's a
picture? $20.00 each plus postage. Sorry no C.O.D.s.
  Now, it seems someone may have been offended by using the word
"yankee" to describe a group of people that live north of someone; hell,
I'm a dumb ole "Red Neck Rebel" and proud of it. Down here in
Mississippi most folks, me included, think that anyone north of
Interstate 10 is a "yankee",( it may be different in your state.) Wow!
with that kind of thinking, I would be a "yankee" as far as the people
that live south of me are concerned; scary!!! We have a saying down
here; "A yankee comes to visit, a damn yankee comes and stays".
   This was all light-hearted  and not meant to offend. Relax have a
etc. etc. etc.
   Enough already!!!!
   And now back to beer-beer-beer-beer............???????
   I like porter and our club is having a competition coming up soon for
a porter. What's your best recipe, (all grain or extract) for a porter;
not robust or smoked? Direct email will be fine!
(...  -.-)

Rick Lassabe
"Bayrat's Brewery"



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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 03:26:38 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Home brew

Clyde Burns asks how to make "homebrew"

In the early 1960s one of my fraternity brothers (Delta Chi) could provide
quarts of a tart, highly alcoholic "beer".  I can remember several
interisting afternoons at his house drinking this brew with certain friends.
Seems his father made homebrew in a large crock in the basement.  The
formula is given below;

1 can Blue Ribbon Malt (3 pounds)
5 pounds sugar (white table sugar)
1/2 cake yeast (from the grocery store)

Get a 2 gallon cooking pan.
Fill with 2-1/2 inches of water
Add sugar and dissolve with heat.
Add the malt.
Boil and then pour into the crock
Add cold water to make 6 gallons.
Dissolve the yeast in water and add.
Let fermentation proceed until just a few bubbles are rising.
(As a guide pour some Coke in a glass and let it set.  After about 20
minutes you will see just a few bubbles rising.  When the beer is bubbling
about as much as the Coke it is ready to bottle).
This makes about 27 quarts of homebrew beer.

Now, some 35 years later I still fondly remember that tart concoction.  I've
even tried to make it once.  The beer wasn't as I remembered but as a
college freshman I would drink about anything and it had a real kick.

Clyde...I don't suggest you try this as an introduction to beer making.  Go
to a local homebrew shop and buy a kit.  Ask some questions.

Dr. Pivo...Is this anything like the SuperBeer you and the other Dr. Pivos
brew??

        Bill Frazier
        Johnson County, Kansas


 







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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 05:00:53 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Refractive Index

As I was brewing a batch of Red Hawk ESB in my garage the other day,
enjoying the 93F (34C) temperature, I did a little experiment.  I try to
follow pH and specific gravity during the sparge but things are so
busy...taking the sample, cooling it in an ice bath, taking the readings and
cleaning off the equipment for the next reading...that I hardly have time to
take the next sample, much less keep the sparge water level above the grain
bed...It's just too much trouble.  However, being a former lab person I like
to collect this data thinking it will tell me something.

I have a hand-held refractometer that I use to measure sugar in some grapes
I grow.  There has been some mention about using this instrument in brewing
so I included it in the data collection.  To be really useful it would be
nice to eliminate cooling the samples in an ice bath to a precise
temperature (60F for my hydrometers) before taking the readings.  For this
experiment I took a refractive index (R.I.) reading of the hot sparge and
compared it to a refractive index and hydrometer reading after cooling the
same sample to 60F.  I also collected the usual pH data but missed a couple
(it was hectic and hot).  

Sparge  R.I.    R.I.    Hydrometer      pH
Time    Hot     Cold    Cold            Cold 
T-zero  1.101   1.096   1.093           5.15
13 min  1.102   1.096   1.093           5.16
22 min  1.067   1.065   1.063           5.21
32 min  1.041   1.037   1.037           5.26
42 min  1.018   1.017   1.017           5.34
52 min  1.009   1.009   1.008           missing
Sparge stopped at 54 minutes.
Mixed   1.053   1.052   1.053           missing

>From this one experiment it looks as if you could use the refractometer with
hot sparge samples and stop the sparge at 1.010 to 1.015.  Pretty good
comparison as the sparge gets less concentrated.  Narrow-range hydrometer
readings are reported but they were not much different from the old
broad-range hydrometer that I started off with.  Also, the refractometer
reads in Brix.  I converted to Sp.Gr. for easy comparison.  I'll probably do
the experiment once or twice more to confirm these results but it looks like
a time saver.

On another subject...I echo some others in asking Dr. Pivo to post a Czech
beer recipe along with some basic brewing guidelines.  I've been trying to
create a beer with that "beery" flavor for years but it still eludes me.

        Bill Frazier
        Johnson County, Kansas
  
     



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