HOMEBREW Digest #3089 Thu 22 July 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: Seattle Homebrewing & Mead Question ("Christopher Farley")
  Mash Thickness ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Safale Yeast (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com>
  Oxidation / Son Of Pivo (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Re: Fermentability of Sugars and carbohydrates (Dave Burley)
  Metric Pressure Chart (Alan Edwards)
  Cheese/Yeast/Enzyme denaturation/Son of Pivo (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Bass Draught Clone Recipes (Daniel Ankeny)
  RIMS design question ("J. Doug Brown")
  Yankee becomes Damn Yankee, Fridge Guy Help!! (Dave Burley)
  Reasons for brewing in the Great White North ("Alan McKay")
  HB party nomination/other stuff ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re: Why Homebrew ("Nigel Porter")
  pesticide for hops (SClaus4688)
  cheese (John Wilkinson)
  Safale back to back (Kurt Goodwin)
  Obsessing on Oxidation. . . ("Galloway")
  Glycol? (The Holders)
  Roller mill questions (Petr Otahal)
  Vote your opinion (Jim Liddil)
  basements ? ("Stephen Alexander")
  Newbies For Breakfast??? ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  Jap. Beetle/Tip from Commercial Brewing (AJ)
  Leaving AHA (KTNeall)
  Does the AOB owe an explanation? ("Alan McKay")
  Ring Burners Needed - not complete brewstands ("SCHNEIDER,BRETT")
  hop utilization by style ("Sieben, Richard")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:06:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: BIG PRESSURE CHART How high you wanna go? Teutonic Brewer writes: | Subject: Re: Keg Pressure for Wheat Beers | | Hi, Brian, | | Yes, three and a half to four and a half volumes of CO2 in a German style | wheat beer needs 20-30 psi -- but my CO2 volume vs pressure table doesn't | go up that far! I wrote a pressure-chart-generator that can do any temp/pressure you want. I'll post a big-ol' chart below, for what it's worth. | While you could carbonate it to that level, dispensing it | from the keg will be a problem. It'll shoot out of the pint glass all over | you, the fridge, the walls, the ceiling, you get the idea. Even if you | bleed the excess head pressure off when you want to serve it, you'll still | get a glass full of foam and not much else. I recommend just carbonating | it to the usual 10psi level and live with the lower carbonation. There are those who argue that using a long serving line will drop the pressure at the tap. You might try keeping the keg at near-freezing, and after carbonating it to your target, if you use a really long serving line (also kept in the fridge), there might be a sweet-spot in the serving pressure where you get high-carb beer and less foam. Is that possible? Anyone tried it? Anyway, heres the outlandishly large pressure chart: -Alan in Fremont, CA PRESSURE (PSI) REQUIRED FOR DESIRED CARBONATION Volumes of CO2 desired 2.0 2.2 2.4 2.6 2.8 3.0 3.2 3.4 3.6 3.8 4.0 4.2 4.4 4.6 4.8 Temp 32F 3.5 5.4 7.3 9.2 11.0 12.9 14.8 16.7 18.5 20.4 22.2 24.1 25.9 27.8 29.6 34F 4.3 6.3 8.2 10.2 12.1 14.1 16.0 18.0 19.9 21.8 23.8 25.7 27.6 29.5 31.4 36F 5.1 7.2 9.2 11.2 13.3 15.3 17.3 19.3 21.3 23.3 25.3 27.3 29.2 31.2 33.2 38F 6.0 8.1 10.2 12.3 14.4 16.5 18.6 20.6 22.7 24.8 26.8 28.9 30.9 33.0 35.0 40F 6.8 9.0 11.2 13.4 15.5 17.7 19.8 22.0 24.1 26.2 28.4 30.5 32.6 34.7 36.8 42F 7.7 10.0 12.2 14.4 16.7 18.9 21.1 23.3 25.5 27.7 29.9 32.1 34.3 36.5 38.7 44F 8.6 10.9 13.2 15.5 17.8 20.1 22.4 24.7 27.0 29.2 31.5 33.8 36.0 38.3 40.5 46F 9.5 11.8 14.2 16.6 19.0 21.3 23.7 26.0 28.4 30.7 33.1 35.4 37.7 40.1 42.4 48F 10.4 12.8 15.3 17.7 20.1 22.6 25.0 27.4 29.8 32.3 34.7 37.1 39.5 41.8 44.2 50F 11.3 13.8 16.3 18.8 21.3 23.8 26.3 28.8 31.3 33.8 36.3 38.7 41.2 43.6 46.1 52F 12.2 14.8 17.3 19.9 22.5 25.1 27.6 30.2 32.8 35.3 37.9 40.4 42.9 45.5 48.0 54F 13.1 15.7 18.4 21.1 23.7 26.3 29.0 31.6 34.2 36.9 39.5 42.1 44.7 47.3 49.9 56F 14.0 16.7 19.5 22.2 24.9 27.6 30.3 33.0 35.7 38.4 41.1 43.8 46.4 49.1 51.8 58F 15.0 17.8 20.6 23.3 26.1 28.9 31.7 34.5 37.2 40.0 42.7 45.5 48.2 51.0 53.7 60F 15.9 18.8 21.6 24.5 27.4 30.2 33.0 35.9 38.7 41.5 44.4 47.2 50.0 52.8 55.6 62F 16.9 19.8 22.7 25.7 28.6 31.5 34.4 37.3 40.2 43.1 46.0 48.9 51.8 54.7 57.5 64F 17.8 20.8 23.8 26.8 29.8 32.8 35.8 38.8 41.8 44.7 47.7 50.6 53.6 56.5 59.5 66F 18.8 21.9 25.0 28.0 31.1 34.1 37.2 40.2 43.3 46.3 49.3 52.4 55.4 58.4 61.4 68F 19.8 22.9 26.1 29.2 32.4 35.5 38.6 41.7 44.8 47.9 51.0 54.1 57.2 60.3 63.4 70F 20.8 24.0 27.2 30.4 33.6 36.8 40.0 43.2 46.4 49.5 52.7 55.9 59.0 62.2 65.3 72F 21.8 25.1 28.4 31.6 34.9 38.2 41.4 44.7 47.9 51.2 54.4 57.6 60.9 64.1 67.3 74F 22.8 26.2 29.5 32.9 36.2 39.5 42.9 46.2 49.5 52.8 56.1 59.4 62.7 66.0 69.3 76F 23.8 27.2 30.7 34.1 37.5 40.9 44.3 47.7 51.1 54.5 57.8 61.2 64.6 67.9 71.3 78F 24.9 28.4 31.8 35.3 38.8 42.3 45.7 49.2 52.7 56.1 59.6 63.0 66.4 69.9 73.3 80F 25.9 29.5 33.0 36.6 40.1 43.7 47.2 50.7 54.3 57.8 61.3 64.8 68.3 71.8 75.3 PRESSURE (PSI) REQUIRED FOR DESIRED CARBONATION Volumes of CO2 desired 2.0 2.2 2.4 2.6 2.8 3.0 3.2 3.4 3.6 3.8 4.0 4.2 4.4 4.6 4.8 Temp 00C 3.5 5.4 7.3 9.2 11.0 12.9 14.8 16.7 18.5 20.4 22.2 24.1 25.9 27.8 29.6 01C 4.2 6.2 8.1 10.1 12.0 14.0 15.9 17.8 19.8 21.7 23.6 25.5 27.4 29.3 31.2 02C 5.0 7.0 9.0 11.0 13.0 15.0 17.0 19.0 21.0 23.0 25.0 26.9 28.9 30.9 32.8 03C 5.7 7.8 9.9 12.0 14.0 16.1 18.2 20.2 22.3 24.3 26.4 28.4 30.4 32.4 34.5 04C 6.5 8.6 10.8 12.9 15.1 17.2 19.3 21.4 23.5 25.7 27.8 29.8 31.9 34.0 36.1 05C 7.3 9.5 11.7 13.9 16.1 18.3 20.5 22.6 24.8 27.0 29.2 31.3 33.5 35.6 37.7 06C 8.1 10.3 12.6 14.9 17.1 19.4 21.6 23.9 26.1 28.3 30.6 32.8 35.0 37.2 39.4 07C 8.8 11.2 13.5 15.8 18.2 20.5 22.8 25.1 27.4 29.7 32.0 34.3 36.5 38.8 41.1 08C 9.6 12.0 14.4 16.8 19.2 21.6 24.0 26.3 28.7 31.0 33.4 35.7 38.1 40.4 42.7 09C 10.4 12.9 15.4 17.8 20.3 22.7 25.1 27.6 30.0 32.4 34.8 37.2 39.6 42.0 44.4 10C 11.3 13.8 16.3 18.8 21.3 23.8 26.3 28.8 31.3 33.8 36.3 38.7 41.2 43.6 46.1 11C 12.1 14.7 17.2 19.8 22.4 25.0 27.5 30.1 32.6 35.2 37.7 40.2 42.8 45.3 47.8 12C 12.9 15.6 18.2 20.8 23.5 26.1 28.7 31.3 33.9 36.5 39.1 41.7 44.3 46.9 49.5 13C 13.7 16.4 19.2 21.9 24.5 27.2 29.9 32.6 35.3 37.9 40.6 43.3 45.9 48.6 51.2 14C 14.6 17.4 20.1 22.9 25.6 28.4 31.1 33.9 36.6 39.3 42.1 44.8 47.5 50.2 52.9 15C 15.4 18.3 21.1 23.9 26.7 29.6 32.4 35.2 38.0 40.8 43.5 46.3 49.1 51.9 54.6 16C 16.3 19.2 22.1 25.0 27.8 30.7 33.6 36.5 39.3 42.2 45.0 47.9 50.7 53.5 56.4 17C 17.1 20.1 23.1 26.0 29.0 31.9 34.8 37.8 40.7 43.6 46.5 49.4 52.3 55.2 58.1 18C 18.0 21.0 24.1 27.1 30.1 33.1 36.1 39.1 42.1 45.0 48.0 51.0 53.9 56.9 59.9 19C 18.9 22.0 25.1 28.1 31.2 34.3 37.3 40.4 43.4 46.5 49.5 52.5 55.6 58.6 61.6 20C 19.8 22.9 26.1 29.2 32.4 35.5 38.6 41.7 44.8 47.9 51.0 54.1 57.2 60.3 63.4 21C 20.7 23.9 27.1 30.3 33.5 36.7 39.9 43.0 46.2 49.4 52.5 55.7 58.9 62.0 65.1 22C 21.6 24.9 28.1 31.4 34.6 37.9 41.1 44.4 47.6 50.8 54.1 57.3 60.5 63.7 66.9 23C 22.5 25.8 29.2 32.5 35.8 39.1 42.4 45.7 49.0 52.3 55.6 58.9 62.2 65.4 68.7 24C 23.4 26.8 30.2 33.6 37.0 40.3 43.7 47.1 50.4 53.8 57.1 60.5 63.8 67.2 70.5 25C 24.3 27.8 31.3 34.7 38.1 41.6 45.0 48.4 51.9 55.3 58.7 62.1 65.5 68.9 72.3 26C 25.3 28.8 32.3 35.8 39.3 42.8 46.3 49.8 53.3 56.8 60.3 63.7 67.2 70.6 74.1 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:59:17 -0500 From: "Christopher Farley" <chris at northernbrewer.com> Subject: Re: Seattle Homebrewing & Mead Question Regarding his 6 month mead fermentation, larson.jt at pg.com writes: > Will the corks allow pressure to pass > through them if some residual fermenting occurs, or will I have a bunch of > exploding bottles? I can vouch from experience: corks don't allow gas to escape. At least not very much. If you *have* to bottle in two weeks (and it sounds like you do), I would do the following: 1. Take a gravity reading and determine how dry the mead is. A dry mead should finish between SG 0.990 and 1.000. If your gravity is significantly higher, you may wish to reconsider your options. 2. Do what winemakers do every time they bottle. Treat it with potassium sorbate and sulfite. I would use 50 PPM sulfite per gallon (or 1 campden tablet, crushed) and 1/2 teaspoon of potassium sorbate per gallon. Add these ~24 hours prior to bottling. > Can anybody offer any suggestions on good brewpubs, > homebrew stores, etc. in the Seattle area? My condolences. Seattle isn't really known for beer. ;) Christopher Farley Northern Brewer, Ltd. Saint Paul, Minnesota www.northernbrewer.com (800) 681-2739 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:21:42 -0700 From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com> Subject: Mash Thickness CLOAKSTONE addresses the effect that thickness of the mash has upon production of fermentables. Admittedly, it has been over a decade since I was in Reaction Kinetics and Biochem, and I have never performed an energy and mass balance for a slurry in my "real job" (only solutions), but I have to question the validity of his reasoning. Yes, this is nitpicking.... but for a good cause. >The first is that beta amylase is more heat labile than alpha amylase; a very >thin mash, having a greater degree of thermal mass, will, at given >temperatures (even very low temps), tend to denature beta more quickly than a >thick mash at the same temperature. A temperature reading, by its very nature, is a measure of available energy. Admittedly, water has a higher heat capacity than grain, but that refers more to an ability to store that energy. (For those not following me, check back for a discussion of how temperature refers simply to brownian/random motion within a substance.) Yes, there is more stored energy in 10# of a thin mash vs. 10# of a thick mash, but the energy being transmitted to your enzymes will be the same for either example as long as the temperature is the same. So why would a thinner mash produce a less fermentable beer? Dunno-- that has never been the case with mine, but apparently there is some evidence that it does, so I would suggest there is more at work here. Perhaps the rate of diffusion of the beta-amylase from the grain into the liquid part of the mash is to blame; the grain is slower to pick up the heat from the surrounding mash (ever notice that it takes a little while for the mash temp to stabilize after an infusion?), so the enzymes remaining in the grist portion are more protected and thus have a longer term effect in a thicker mash. Rick Theiner LOGIC, Inc. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:25:31 -0700 From: "O'mahoney, Larry (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com> Subject: Safale Yeast Jeff Bitgood remarks about the Safale yeast. I used it in a Classic American Ale recently, and was very impressed with it. Following the directions I made an 8 oz. slurry and pitched it into 5 gallons of SG=1.048 wort. I didn't even bother to aerate the wort, but it began fermenting within 3 hours, had vigorous fermentation within 12 hours, and was essentially done in 2-3 days. After 7 days in the primary at 66 degF, the FG= 1.008. I bottled with 1500 mg/22 oz. corn sugar (3 Prime Tabs per 22 oz. bottle). The result is a very pleasant, low carbonation ale, beautifully clear, medium golden color. The Safale yeast is neutral, but seems to enhance all the malt, corn and hop flavors. It is a very good yeast which I will use much in the future. Larry New Orleans (by job, not choice) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:28:02 -0400 (EDT) From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Oxidation / Son Of Pivo OXIDATION: Individual "data points" are, at best, just this. I include this one only because there is a lot of discussion on the possibility of oxidative staling during bottling but I'm (surprised!) to yet see anyone say "Well I tried this too and my beer /did/ stale faster after aeration." The beer was a dry stout and at the end of bottling I aerated the heck out of the last two 24 oz in the bucket by swirling and repeated vigorous stirring with a slotted spoon, then bottled. In a triangle test about 3 weeks later I could tell a clear difference between this and the parent beer. Interestingly enough, I had Mike Maceyka try a side-by-side comparison and he couldn't tell much difference. All in all I am pretty well convinced that drastic aeration during bottling can lead to staling and that this doesn't take all that long in the bottle either. I'm also amazed at the difference between the taste profiles I was picking up and Mike was picking up, it seems that differences in individual taste thresholds, etc. must also be considered as possible factors in explaining why a beer heavilly exposed to air does not appear to be staling... - ------------------------------ DOCTORS DOCTORS EVERYWHERE... Alan McKay responded to my "Doctor post" >Hmmm, I wonder. Does spending a good portion of the last 10 or >so years in Czech breweries, watching and learning, count as >"training and competence beyond the majority of laypersons"? Yes it certainly does and it would be nice to have a good title to indicate this. Is he a commercial brewer? If so, perhaps Masterbrewer or Headbrewer, etc. would be appropriate. As I indicated in my previous post, titles such as "Dr." really only indicate an increased probability that the given source will be helpful. Certainly training AND experience count for a lot, and I'd ideally like to be getting advice/info from someone who has BOTH (plus a pinch of intelligence and wisdom on the side). >I also wonder if someone gets fooled by the title "Dr", if they >also thought our good doctor was made of beer. That is, afterall, >what "pivo" means ... Until this was ferreted out by someone I had no clue that "pivo" meant beer. I can't believe I was the only one... >Once again, though, I have to ask : has anyone even bothered >to ask the guy whether or not he does have a PhD? I know >from his webpage that he has 2 degrees in the sciences. This may be, though the title was apparently being used by more than one person. I have to stress that I wasn't slamming this particular individual just defending Steve Alexander's point about the capricious use of titles and that they /could/ potentially be misleading. -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:26:04 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Fermentability of Sugars and carbohydrates Al, Message text written by Al Korzonas AlK: >Only Erik and Alana are home now, but Alexa should be coming home within a week. She still needs to have surgery, but that is probably >months away. I sincerely mean it when I say our prayers are with you, your wife and Alexa. >Various (non-homebrew) texts make it clear that dextrins are but a small part of body... only homebrew texts claim that dextrins are a major player when it comes to body. You are getting off the track, however. I do >believe you may be right with your amended statement. DRB: I agree that proteins give the perception of mouthfeel and that dextrins do not to any great extent. I just did not know how to say it quickly as regards the FG and like characteristics.. >Some are, some aren't. Draught Bass is unfiltered and cask-conditioned... >I'm sure of it. I presume Draught Bass is different from the normal Bass, since when I lived in the UK ( a long time ago) Bass was one of the first to go to pressurized kegs and cold delivery - and lost a lot of customers at the time as a result. >Dave... you are trying to complicate the issues with confusion. Discussing >something with you is like trying to eat broth with a fork. {8^) That's a new analogy to me. I like it, but I have no mean-spirited intention, just trying to bring in and address all the points that have been made by others in an attempt to be fair and see how they fit into the overall picture. AlK: >Yes, I do agree that not all priming sugar may be consumed... yes, we shouldn't put much weight on Clinitest data from bottle-conditioned beers either. As for your inversion of sucrose... you were not getting what you think you were... Years ago, when I posted about this common method for creating invert sugar, a chemist wrote me privately and said that at the pH's we would get from a little citric acid or lemon juice, only a fraction of the sucrose would be split into it's component glucose and fructose. He explained why this was done at all: because sucrose water is unstable -- the sucrose despirately wants to crystalise. Someone found that if you invert even a few percent of the sucrose, the crystalisation is almost completely stopped. So, the purpose of making "invert sugar" (of which only a few percent were actually glucose and fructose) was so you could store syrup and still get it to pour. The yeast couldn't care less what you give them... invertase is so >powerful... it will invert copious amounts of sucrose in minutes. I agree with your chemist friend as far as citric acid is concerned but not commercial brewers (invert) sugar which is pretty well completely inverted by hydrochloric acid and neutralized. Using cream of tartar ( which decomposes to an acid at syrup boiling or cupcake baking temperatures) in candy making is based on the principle of inverting only a small portion to prevent re-crystallization. My point was simply that I didn't need to start with invert sugar as indicated in those old texts , that in the days when I was using sucrose to prime, I put all the priming sugar in my "kraeusen "starter to invert it with invertase from the yeast, before I primed with it. Interestingly, I had forgotten why I did it until you objected on the grounds that this would cause an uncertainty of how much was being used to prime. when I said to myself " self, why would you do that?" Then I remembered. Keep the sugar concentrated with the high yeast concentration so the sugar would be inverted and not slow down the conditioning when diluted by the beer. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley - ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- Sender: korz at xnet.com Received: from mail.xnet.com (quake.xnet.com []) by hpamgaac.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) with ESMTP id PAA12881 for <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:10:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xnet.com (typhoon.xnet.com []) by mail.xnet.com (8.9.3+Sun/XNet-3.0R) with ESMTP id OAA28890; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:10:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from korz at localhost) by xnet.com (8.8.6/XNet-3.0C) id OAA09011; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:10:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:10:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Message-Id: <199907191910.OAA09011 at xnet.com> To: Dave_Burley at compuserve.com, korz at xnet.com Cc: ajdel at mindspring.com, homebrew at brew.oeonline.com, lkbonham at hbd.org Subject: Re: Fermentability of Sugars and carbohydrates < Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 08:43:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: Metric Pressure Chart For those who measure pressure in KiloPascals: 0 240 260 281 301 321 341 361 381 401 18C 124 145 166 187 207 228 249 269 290 311 331 352 372 392 413 19C 130 152 173 194 215 236 257 279 300 321 341 362 383 404 425 20C 136 158 180 202 223 245 266 288 309 331 352 373 395 416 437 -Alan in Fremont Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:47:57 -0400 (EDT) From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Cheese/Yeast/Enzyme denaturation/Son of Pivo CHEESEMAKING DIGEST "Blessed are the cheesemakers.." - ------------------------------------- BASEMENTS Don't know but MAN I WISH I HAD ONE! - -------------------------------------- YEAST STARTERS Peter writes: >I've enjoyed culturing yeast for the last couple of years. I dutifully step >up the starter for every batch (50ml - 500 - 2000ml). What would happen (at >the 500ml size) if I poured off the liquid and fed the slurry 500ml of >fresh wort? Would the yeast count go up or would I just have the same >amount of yeast? Any thoughts would be appreciated. If the fresh wort is well aerated and/or the growth is done with aeration/ air-exposure the result will be TWICE AS MUCH YEAST! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- MASH THICKNESS Paul Smith wrote: >The first is that beta amylase is more heat labile than alpha amylase; a very >thin mash, having a greater degree of thermal mass, will, at given >temperatures (even very low temps), tend to denature beta more quickly than a >thick mash at the same temperature. This would tend to result in a less HUH??? Someone's going to have to explain this one to me. The denaturation of the enzyme (all other things being equal) will depend ONLY on the temperature not the "thermal mass" or absolute volume of the solution. If allowed to cool then the smaller volume (thicker) mash should cool more quickly thus reducing the time the enzyme is exposed to the higher temperature and therefore you'd get less denaturing occuring - is this what you mean? Also, I said "all other things being equal" but in the described example there are other differences besides temperature - the enzyme is more dilute in the thinner mash and this may be contributing to decreased stability of the beta amylase, perhaps by lessening the effect of substrate stabilization. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- PET PIVO Wesley commented: >refer those who get pissy about the use of the title "Doctor" to a latin >dictionary. The word is derived from latin and predates the existance >of "universities" by more that a thousand years. "Doctor" simply means >teacher. I don't know why it is that people have the idea that >universities have the sole right of conferring this title. Oh, uh, right. Forgot to check my Latin dictionary. My /English/ dictionary on the other hand defines doctor as a "qualified medical practitioner" or a "holder of a doctorate." If doctor means teacher than I guess I should've been addressing all my grade-school teachers accordingly, ooops. - ------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:59:48 -0500 From: Daniel Ankeny <ankeny.3 at osu.edu> Subject: Bass Draught Clone Recipes Hello All, I was wondering if anyone could help me out by sending me a good EXTRACT recipe for a BASS DRAUGHT clone. Thanks in Advance, Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:29:56 +0000 From: "J. Doug Brown" <jbrown at labyrinth.net> Subject: RIMS design question Does anybody out there know a calculation for BTU based on cal/minute assuming 100 percent efficiency. I just would like to know so that I don't undersize a RIMS heater. What I am trying to accomplish is properly size a heater so I can do 10 degree C temp boosts in approximately 5 minutes, ie 2 degrees/minute. Thanks in advance for your response. Doug Brown - -- -------------------------------------------------------- / J. Doug Brown Sr. Software Engineer \ < jbrown at labyrinth.net jbrown at ewa.com > \ http://www.labs.net/jbrown http://www.ewa.com / -------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:55:38 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Yankee becomes Damn Yankee, Fridge Guy Help!! Brewsters: At last we will be able to move into our house in South Carolina as my wife will be purposefully ( the purpose is to get money) employed there and we can move. She accepted a really great position today and we will be scurrying to get this house sold and move by the end of August.. - ------------------------------------------ As a result, I need some advice from our favorite fridge guy, Forrest Duddles. For some reason, my e-mails to him are kicked back so I include my letter to him here. Of course, any other comments from other HBDers would be most appreciated. Forrest, I am gong to move to a great new house and have a large section ( ~400 sq ft) of a garage for my hobby rooms. I plan a cooler room to keep my wine and beer, since this is in South Carolina. I think I still have some old working dehumidifiers ( although I may have thrown them away?) around and wonder if these would be useful as coolers for my planned room. At present, I plan to use the area under a stairway and a possible extension of this. Any thoughts? The stairway is inside the garage, but is on an outside wall,so it should be easy to use a small air conditoner. Any thoughts? I plan to have a cold room and then the wines and such around the outside on racks on the walls and under the stairs of this main room. The warmer room should be in the mid-60s and the cooler room around 55F or colder. This should allow beer ( lager 50 - 55F or lower, 60 - 65 ales) fermentation, white wine fermentation 55 -60F and wine storage at 65F The outer room will call for coolth by a fan removing air from the cooler room to the warmer room and the cooler room will have a temperature controller which will call an air conditioner. Is 50degF a reasonable temperature for the cooler room using an air conditioner? How can I get it to run this cool? How about cycle times and the like? The volume of the room will be about 200 plus cubic feet with a portion of the room at 10'. Imagine a solid triangular room 10hX10wX4d ( 200 cuft) and perhaps with a 10hX6wX4d' extension. 240 cu ft max extension Possible plans are to make the rectangular section as the cooler room with R30 insulation ( vapor barrier?) and the other room with normal R18?(Vapor Barrier?) Plans are to put the air conditioner up high in the rectangular section. I have a similar stairs arrangement here and it works fine with a cooled basement to keep the wines cool. I make lager in the winter in an anteroom here in NJ, but can't count on it there, so I will need some additional area to cool. Any other thoughts?. Thanks for your comments! BTW it has been substantially cooler and less humid in SC than in NJ these past weeks! Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:01:42 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: Reasons for brewing in the Great White North I'll have to agree - for the most part - with what Doug O'Brien says about reasons for brewing up here. Though I personally got started for quality reasons, I am in the minority here. Also note that not only do a lot of people up here use the BOP (Brew On Premise), but we invented the thing. It started here in Ontario specifically to combat high beer prices at the beer store. cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay OS Support amckay at nortelnetworks.com Small Site Integration 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) Nortel Networks Internal : http://zftzb00d/alanmckay/ All opinions expressed are my own. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:21:17 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: HB party nomination/other stuff page down now - that is an order - AlanM and I have come to some sort of understanding I think. We both agree that errors are repeatedly propagated (and re-propagated) here and within local HB communities. We, in the end, agree that "dogma" is a misapplied term. We disagree on the source of these errors. (hope that's a fair statement Alan). I wonder why no FAQ has ever appeared covering the basics. Al Korzonas, before he became a busy father of 3 was tireless in tracking down and stamping out many of these errors. He once suggested setting up a website listing known errata and also doubtful or unclear points from common HB books, but was shouted down for such negativity. Unfortunately that leaves each of us to construct an incomplete list of our own. Jim writes >Cheers, and Renner for President.....jim booth, lansing, mi Same here - he's got my vote and I'd like to nominate AlK for dogma catcher, tho' I think a better title is deserved. == Bob Uhl - who avoids technology with a zealot's fervor even hoping to forego thermometers, hydrometers and pH meters in the mash. Good luck Bob - sincerely. You have chosen a very difficult path with no apparent potential for advantage. Perhaps you'll discover something new which everyone else overlooks - I doubt it but sincerely do not dismiss it. Why not gain some of that non-technological brewing experience you want and then report back on your findings instead of dumping on people who choose a different path ? Why not stop theorizing about the advantages and dismissing the critics when your first all-grain beer is still in the fermentor and has problems ? Why ask questions of others about your krausen problem when your experience will, as you claim, answer the question ? Poor krausen, no measurements - what does your experience tell you now ? Perhaps that tools and technology are useful for diagnosis and learning ? Of course not ! As for the 'Chefs don't need technology' argument - nonsense. Food methods provide a lot more sensory feedback that a mash tun, but I know of no respectable chef who would trust his intuition for temperature when using a new roasting oven and the careful measurement of water in dough. Certain things in cooking and brewing are less forgiving than others and measurement tools are needed. Similarly - mash differences of a few tenths in pH or 5F temp make a big difference in the beer and yet are inaccessible to the senses w/o a reference or a thermometer/pH meter. You will find this out once you actually have some of that experience you exalt. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:55:40 +0100 From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Why Homebrew Douglas O'Brien said >Note that in Canada a typical mass market beer (e.g. Molson >Export) costs about C$1.30 (US$0.88) a bottle, and that premium >(local or regional brewery) beers are 1.5X that cost. What size of bottle is that (I'm in the UK & havn't got a clue if you have a standard bottle size over there)? I rarely buy beer to drink at home, but a pint down the pub costs around UKP2.00 >Most *home* brewers that I know [in Canada] use cost as the main >factor, with quality second. >As an all-grain brewer I am, by far, the exception rather than the >rule. >I suspect the other countries, i.e., U.K., are the same, and that the >U.S. is somewhat unique! There is some element of cost in the reasonings of quite a few brewers, but amongst all the brewers that I know the search for quality and experimentation with ingredients is the driving force. Again most of the brewers that I know are all grain brewers, but I know that there is a very large population of kit and extract brewers here. Some of the kit & extract manufacturers are now going to great lengths to provide us with top quality kits and premium malt extracts, which again all assist in the production of quality beer - the cheap and nasty homebrew kit which produces thin tatsteless (apart from That Nasty Homeberw Tatse) is still a common occurance over here. All the retailers that I know do their best to encourage people into the use of quality ingredients, over cheap ones - another step towards quality over cost. Somewhere along the line the aim for quality is there, but there is still a portion of the market who are after cheap beer. Nigel Brewing in Guildford Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:42:54 EDT From: SClaus4688 at aol.com Subject: pesticide for hops In HBD #3086 (7/19/99), John Stegenga suggests using Diazanon to control beetles on hops. If you are planning on using the hops in beer, and the plants currently have cones on them, I would caution against using any pesticide. Think about the process: hop cones generally hang on the vine until ripe and are then picked, dried and packaged. Later, they are unpackaged and thrown into wort. Unlike most fruits and vegetables, hop cones are usually not washed at any time prior to use. As a result, there is a chance that, if you spray pesticides on the cones now, you will be tossing pesticide residue into your wort later. Of course, ingestion of pesticides could negatively affect your level of hop derived estrogen .... -Steve Claussen in PDX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:59:36 -0500 From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: cheese With Jack Schmidling and others discussing cheese I am reminded of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. "Blessed are the cheese makers ...". Also, cutting the cheese will have at least two meanings here. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:53:10 +0000 From: kurt at greennet.net (Kurt Goodwin) Subject: Safale back to back Jeff Bitgood said: "I plan on doing a split batch of American Pale, one half at 65F, the other up in the kitchen at the mercy of the weather" with Safale to test it's sensitivity to temperature. I ran a double batch (5 gal + 5 gal) of pale ale 10 days ago. Put one down to ferment with Safale (I heard good things about it as well), one down with a 1 pint starter of Wyeast 1098. I ferment things out in the basement where it NEVER gets above 72F. Except the heat wave over the last 2 weeks when it got up over 80. Tha Safale fermented like a rocket and dropped clear in the primary after only a few days. The Whitbread yeast batch went much more slowly. Don't know how estery a batch this will be - let you know when I muster the courage. Slainte Kurt Goodwin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:02:14 -0400 From: "Galloway" <galloway at gtcom.net> Subject: Obsessing on Oxidation. . . Greetings All, Depending on the style of beer depends on how it gets treated prior to priming and bottling. In the summer months, or if a beer is going to be in the bottle for awhile I will add 150 to 300 mgs. of ascorbic acid to the water being boiled for the priming sugar for a 5 gallon batch. If O2 intrusion is a problem it seems that the ascorbic acid will be oxidized before the beer itself. This practice has served me well over the years. What I'm looking for is some advice/direction to clone the Rogue YSB. My God what a beer! We are looking for that big malt explosion in the start. Any ideas??? Regards, Dave Galloway Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:07:14 -0700 From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> Subject: Glycol? I've recently acquired a small glycol chiller. Now I'm wondering what the heck do I put in it? Do I just go to a refrigeration supply and ask for glycol, or is there a trade name for the stuff? TIA, Wayne Holder AKA Zymie Long Beach CA http://andinator.com/zymico Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:04:28 +1000 From: Petr Otahal <potahal at postoffice.utas.edu.au> Subject: Roller mill questions Hi all Im building a roller mill from two stainless shaft sections (4-5" diam, 2-3" length), and Ive looked through some old HBD articles but couldn't find answers to these questions: What range of gap size should I have (if I make it adjustable), and if not adjustable what is the best allround gap size? Do both rollers need to be powered, or can I get away with just having one powered and one free?? Do I need knurling on rollers of this diameter? Many thanks Petr Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:09:05 -0400 From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu> Subject: Vote your opinion The canning of Brian Rezac is yet another thing one can add to the "Stupid AHA Tricks" FAQ. I suggest all that care abou the AHA and it's policies let the AHA and it's BofA kow what you think. I believe Ken Scharamm, Dae Houseman and Rob Moilne are three such induhviudals. I personally see this as yet another stupid thing. Brian was helpful and never got upset with my constant raggin on the AHA/AOB. He provided prompt service and help. I ask the reps to let the AHA know what the "members" think. I suggest that a boycott of the AHA conference be carried out. I know the conference is now meant to be run by local groups etc. but it is still an AHA event. Support the MCAB. Let's put the screws to the AHA and make the NHC a non-event in the year 2000. Make a statement. Oh and I want to see the latest info on the AOB taxes and charlies salry on the AOB web site ASAP. :-) Jim Liddil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:00:04 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: basements ? Someone suggested that basements were for storm cellar use,... seems unlikely since they are prevalent in the NE and well beyond the tornado plagued plains. Someone else that stoney soil was the reason for their lack. I have seen basement excavation in the Pittsburgh area apparently quarried or blasted out of solid granite !! In the north the necessity for central heat, is a big part of the issue. Coal chutes exist in homes built as recently as the 1920s. The circulating air ducted systems typically require a cool reservoir and return at the low points. I suspect passive hot water systems have a similar requirement. Oil fired furnaces w/ storage on lower basement levels are common in rural areas. The basement furnace solves these problems. Slab (and half basement) construction is allowed and common for small commercial structures. so frostline concerns are probably not the root cause. I've seen some homes from the mid 1800s here and they do have basements/cellars FWIW. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:25:58 +1000 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au> Subject: Newbies For Breakfast??? Thomas Murray recently posted an article titled as above. He stated: ""Phil and Jill Yates brought up the subjects of HBD posting fear... ...They said: " the HBD is regarded by many potential contributors as something of a lions den, that is to say that you can expect to be shredded if you dare to get involved" He also stated: "Please someone, show us the last time a "newbie" was torn limb from limb on this digest. I have always been impressed by the patience and respect that new brewers are given here." Thomas, can I call you Tom? Let's get a little bit friendly here. Firstly, I do not appreciate the suggestion that Jill is helping me out with my posts. In fact in line with general HBD policy I am extremely infuriated by your comment and may just well report it to the police! Secondly, I don't know about the last time but if you continue to insult me I will definitely demonstrate how (for the first time) to tear a newbie from limb to limb. Happy Brewing Phil Yates. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:35:08 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Jap. Beetle/Tip from Commercial Brewing Ian Smith wants to know if I can tell him what a Japanese Beetle looks like. Yes, yes I can. In detail. I see them in my nightmares. Anyway, there is a lovely photo at http://www.ent.iastate.edu/imagegal/coleoptera/ Go to scarab beetles. I'd put the address of the particular image but its over 80 characters and gets rejected. Not an unattractive bug, really, considering the damage they do.I'd say they are a little less than a cm long (no scale on the photo). Tip of the day from commericial brewing - Fobbing: Today's tip was stimulated by Dean Fikar's post yesterday concerning capping on foam. The unbelievably expensive bottle fillers used by commercial brewers use this technique (and others) to minimize headspace air. They do it by injecting a squirt of beer or water into the neck just before the cap goes on. Some machines simply rap the bottle. Obviously, you can do either of these things when counter-pressure filling. Rapping is easier requiring only a hard object to rap with. A squirt of beer can be obtained from a syringe but you'd have to worry about keeping it and the supply of beer or water you draw up with it sanitary. Squirting and rapping both obviously require that the beer be well carbonated. - -- A. J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:59:03 EDT From: KTNeall at aol.com Subject: Leaving AHA I've spent most of my homebrewing career as a member of the AHA. I kept renewing my membership because I felt that the organization was slowly changing for the better. Brian was the major driving force behind these positive changes. I am angry as hell that he has been summarily dismissed. Along with him, I will go. My membership come up for renewal in a couple months. I will throw my renewal card in the trash. I cannot continue to support an organization that does not work in the best interests of its members. Tim Neall Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:02:51 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: Does the AOB owe an explanation? Not to me they don't, because I cancelled my subscription long ago for exactly this sort of reason. But if you are still paying dues to that organization, you're GD right they owe you an explanation, and if I were you I'd demand one! cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay OS Support amckay at nortelnetworks.com Small Site Integration 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) Nortel Networks Internal : http://zftzb00d/alanmckay/ All opinions expressed are my own. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:21:31 -0500 From: "SCHNEIDER,BRETT" <SCHNEIDERB at morganco.com> Subject: Ring Burners Needed - not complete brewstands I have been searching the internet and emailing suppliers and hb shops looking to buy only the cast ring burners and hoses w/regulators for adding to my new brewstand. But so far no luck finding them as loose parts. Any recommendations or sources people know of for these things? - brett Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:54:44 -0500 From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com> Subject: hop utilization by style larry land asked about hop utilization by style, I was wondering the same thing until I got the Daniels book on designing great beers. While it does not cover all varieties of hops, it does give some historical reference about what hops may have been used in the style and also shows and analysis of malts and hops used in a sample of winning recipes. You can use this as a guideline and make your own calls from there. Another good source is the Garetz book on hops, it covers the most commonly found hops and can give you a feel for their uses, similarities and disimilarities. I use both these books to determine what hops I would like to use and what substitutes I can use if need be (like the brew store doesn't have EKG, but they have Fuggles so that may be close enough). Rich Sieben Just west of Lake County in Northeast Nowhere Illinois Return to table of contents
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