HOMEBREW Digest #3090 Fri 23 July 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  AHA, Brian Rezac, HBD, etc. ("Jim Kingsberg")
  Brian Rezac and a beer question ("Penn, John")
  UK Brewing (Dan Listermann)
  Fired Under Charlie Klub ("John S. Thomas")
  AHA ("Sieben, Richard")
  Jap. Beetles (Joy Hansen)
  mash thickness ... ("Stephen Alexander")
  Brian Rezac firing... (Jim Cave)
  The Demise of AHA (Cory Chadwell Page Navigation)
  drip pans (Adam Holmes)
  Brian's Departure (Paul Gatza)
  bugs n such, alt (Lou.Heavner)
  San Diego BJCP exam ("Peter Zien")
  Dishwashers (Jeffry D Luck)
  tobacco as insecticide ... effective but ... ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re: Newbies for breakfast (Jeff Hall)
  Cream Ale Carbonation (HenryZeke)
  Green Beans (Dave Burley)
  HBD #3088 bitchin (Liz Blades)
  Boycott the AHA through the clubs system (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  re: tasting the Berliner weiss ("Brian J. Paszkiet")
  Beer lines (BrewInfo)
  Underachievers ("Michael Maag")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 08:25:06 -0500 From: "Jim Kingsberg" <jdkingsb at hewitt.com> Subject: AHA, Brian Rezac, HBD, etc. Ive been reading the HBD for about 5 years and have been brewing for about 6 years. Ive never subscribed to Zymurgy or became a member of AHA under the guise of subscribing to a magazine. Ive always thought of the AHA-as-a-lobbying group as a joke. I started out with Dave Miller's Book and several suggestions in getting started from a local homebrew shop (Thanks, Brew and Grow). I later bought Papazian's TNCJHB and thought it was not as good as Dave Miller's. In fact, I didnt like it and dont recommend the book to people I know who are starting out. Miller's book shows a kind of progression and comparison among all-extract to all-grain brewing. To me, the book, the magazine, the organization and Charlie P. are all a farce. These, to me, seemed like they were really oppurtunistic money making projects. Im not against money making ventures, however. Im wondering if either the AHA never aspired to what homebrewers wanted and needed (thereby duping us into joining the AHA) or if the AHA was merely a for-profit "fan club" that doesnt really do anything and that homebrewers assigned higher expectations and are now disappointed because the AHA didnt meet their expectations. The points Im trying to make are A) it seems apparent that homebrewing as an industry and hobby is on the wane, B) The AHA does not meet the expectations of many homebrewers (note drop in Zymurgy subscriptions, what percentage of homebrewers subscribe, etc) C) The HBD, while not accesible to all homebrewers, has supplied years of bonafide, and personalized information on a pro bono basis (for the most part), D) Even the HBD is not entirely focused (as a collective) on the topics of homebrewing. The HBD is serving basically two types of homebrewers; the newbie and the scientist. There will always be rants unrelated to brewing and they will generally die quiet deaths. E) There is a core of homebrewing knowledge here on the HBD. There is probably an excellent demographic of professionals who could "lend" a hand at starting a new Homebrewers Association. With these points in mind, I wholeheartedly agree that a new, better organized, better homebrewer alligned, association not only can but should be started. Respectfully submitted, Jim Kingsberg Fugowee Brewery, Evanston, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:32:23 -0400 From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu> Subject: Brian Rezac and a beer question Wow! From all the inputs from Brian Rezac on the HBD, it seems to be quite a loss to the brewing community that he was let go from the AHA. What in the **** is going on there at the AHA? Now for a beer question. I managed to attach a ball valve to my Gott cooler and after some additional tinkering got it to stop leaking. I tried it out for the first time last week and I still need to improve a couple of areas on the design. First, I noticed bubbles in the hose during sparging. I increased the flow rate to a very fast sparge to minimize Hot Side Aeration (HSA) and the bubbles seemed to be fewer or at least the number bubbles vs. the amount of liquid flowing past improved. I'm sure my efficiency suffered but I still seemed to get from 25-27 ppg with 4.7# of malt in a partial mash pale ale that included 4# of LME in a 5.5 gallon batch. I noticed the hose was very soft and the air was coming from the attachment of the hose onto the tapered brass hose barb. It seemed a tight fit at room temperature but the heat from the sparge caused a loose fit and allowed air to enter around the barb. I suppose I could use a hose clamp to prevent air from coming in. But I was also wondering is there a type of plastic hose which is bad for use at 150-170F? Is there a type of plastic hose that is preferred for hot sparge water? I just bought whatever the local hardware store had. Maybe the homebrew store carries the right kind of hose but I'm skeptical since mostly those hoses are used for siphoning room temperature liquids. Any advice or input is welcome. TIA. John Penn Eldersburg, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:41:22 -0400 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: UK Brewing David Wright (batch43 at hotmail.com) writes about the state of brewing in the UK. We went to the Home Wine and Beer Trade Association Conference in Brighton back in 94. It was held in conjunction with the Home Beer and Wine Association of the UK's conference. We had a super time, but I was really struck with how backwards brewing was there at that time. If I remember correctly my table and Clive Donald's were the only two to have grains of any sort on display. Clive's was the only one to have whole hops. It was all about extract! Here I was in the land of Dave Line, Graham Wheeler ( who gave me a couple of his books there - thanks !) and the Durden Park Beer Circle and almost the whole industry revolved around extract. We should not lose sight of the fact that the majority of brewers in the UK brew for tax reasons and their market reflects this. Hopefully through the efforts of folks like Clive, things are progressing there. Clive Donald had been a long time customer of ours and we appreciate it. Those of you in the UK should check out Di and Danny Green's "Homebrew Shop" in Farnbrough. They support all grain brewing and it is a nice place to visit. Liz Blades ( blades at airtime.co.uk) operates a shop in the north, but I can't recall the name of the town. She is a lot of fun. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com 72723,1707 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 06:43:25 -0700 From: "John S. Thomas" <jthomas at iinet.com> Subject: Fired Under Charlie Klub Brian Rezac the only hope for the AHA has now joined the Klub. Although I wasn't fired they just stopped paying. Damn the contract, don't mail the check! Or is this the same as firing someone? After studying the AHA for years my thoughts were Cathy Ewing was the problem. Looks like she was just another front line guy following orders. Sorry Brian, you were/are a great guy. Some day Charlie will miss you. By the way how large, or should I say small, is the AHA membership now. John Thomas Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:06:03 -0500 From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com> Subject: AHA I have never been a member of the AHA, but I was thinking about it after seeing the glimmer of hope that it might be turning into something fun with the advent of the efforts of Brian Rezac. Now that he is out of the picture there, well I guess the AHA stays out of the picture for me for at least a while longer. Maybe it is time for a new international organization to be formed to meet the needs of homebrewers. If anyone is going to start it, I would be interested. Of course we all need to realize that it would not be able to be much in the beginning as it will take some time to build momentum and membership. But, I do think the need exists, certainly as evidenced by this forum at the very least.\ Just thinkin out loud.... Rich Sieben you probalby wouldn't know where I am even if I told you, so who really cares about that anyway? silliness isn't it>? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:18:36 -0400 From: joytbrew at halifax.com (Joy Hansen) Subject: Jap. Beetles Hi Rick and Greg My comments are strictly my opinion and not supported by any scientific investigations that I've conducted. Just a bit of experience and personal opinion. Rick wrote: (Snip) I too have grown hops, apples, Jap. Red Maple trees, string beans, blackberries, all of which seem to be favored by Jap. beetles. About three years ago, I began using the bag traps made by Spectracide. I use two traps and place them per directions. The first couple years I was bagging beetles like crazy and had to change bags several times. This year I again put out my traps in anticipation of the usual onslaught. My traps have been out for some time now (Snip) The Jap. Beetles arrive here in Scottsburg during the second week in June each year. I guess that's the time the larvae pupate after eating your lawn roots, or what ever it's called, and turn into beetles. The onslaught continues for a couple of months. It seems to me that the beetles are excellent travelers and will travel many miles just to connect with the pheromone given off by a female. The rose blossom fragrance seems especially attractive as a FOOD and meeting site. Possibly the males give off a pheromone that attracts the females? While waiting, the beetles just eat!!! The migration to mate occurs each day about 11 AM and ends about 4 PM. Once fertilized, the female seems to eat everything in sight and the beetle grows to about the size of a thumbnail. The males seem to die. Quickly. I use the traps and try to use the wind to trap the critters before they get to my plants. It works sometimes. Not being an organic kind of guy, I use Dragon (5 or 10%) Sevin with BT? I wet the ornamentals (firebush, roses, barberries, hibiscus, azaleas, and several types of Jap. maples) then dust them with Sevin. When the beetles return, I dust them again. Some leaves still turn into strainers; however, if the beetles eat, they DIE. If they enter the trap, they DIE! My oramentals survive! It's about time for the crepe myrtle to bloom and that will lessen the pressure on the more expensive ornamentals. Rick wrote: (snip) On planting sacrificial plants. I feel this would only serve to provide more favorable conditions to the pests thus allowing for expanded populations. This is counter to the results we're seeking. Don't roll out the red carpet and raise the white flag. Declare WAR! Death to all beetle swine! (Snip) I agree! Furthermore, the U.S. Government wouldn't spend the few thousand taxpayer dollars to exterminate the 1 square mile infestation when it was first detected. A year later, the infestation covered 100 square miles. It should be the Gov't's responsibility to protect its citizenry from this imported pest and plants like, Jap. beetles, kudzu, gypsy moths, etc. Alas, the tax payers don't want to spend the dollars. So, use of milky spore (I think this is called BT) on your property and that of your neighbors will kill off the beetles. Then, non use of the traps would be very helpful. Got get rid of your resident population first. The milky spore kills the larvae which eats grass roots (lawn), so you know where you have to apply the stuff. When whole neighborhoods treat their property, the problem is nearly eliminated. Being in a rural agricultural area, this isn't possible. However, the Forest Service used the Milky Spore to treat several areas surrounding my residence to kill gypsy moths. Thus, this year there's enough beetles to do damage, but no where near enough to kill the ornamentals. Hop growers should check out the individual and community application of milky spore. With application this year, next year should be nearly Jap. Beetle free. I recommend the use Sevin right now to keep the hops healthy this year and trash the hop cones of necessary. Apply the milky spore NOW. Keeping in mind that the female drops eggs in lawns! Next year try again. For those fortunates without a zillion of the critters eating everything in sight, they are about 1/4 inch long at this time of year and remind me of jewelry. The iridescent purple, green, and black begs the question: "How can something so beautiful be so destructive?" The damage looks a lot like that of the distructive Mexican Been Beetle on string bean plants. Those black and yellow critters are very attractive. Let's see, blue mold, tobacco mosaic, squash beetles, squash vine borers, aphids, root maggets, slugs, nematodes, and etc. What's a gardener to do? Don't worry, just sit and have a home brew! Joy"T"Brew Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:42:58 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: mash thickness ... *** Warning Science content - please page down if you find information offensive Paul Smith provides good insights into the issues of mash thickness vs fermentability. The term "thermal mass" as opposed to heat capacity (Cp) always rubs the wrong way, but the description in this case is slightly off for other reasons. The beta-amylase is less stable in thinner solutions in all cases regardless of "thermal mass". The effect is that is the BA enzyme in the presence of it's substrate (starch, amylose, ...) at higher concentrations (thicker mashes) it is inherently more stable. The effect is called substrate stabilization. In high substrate, low water regimes, the beta-amylase reaction rates are limited by the unavailability of free water molecules. This effect is apparent in the table below. For an hour long mash at various temps and mash thickness Hall reports as follows. Each triplet of numbers below represents results for a mash thickness of <67%, 39%, 29%> this corresponds with <0.7, 1.25, 1.7> qt/lb in HB terms. Mashing temperatures as listed. Fermentability(%) 140F <73.3, 76.1, 76.2> 150F <67.4, 71.2, 69.7> 155F <64.4, 65.0, 65.3> Extract (%) 140F <55-63, 76.2, 75.6> 150F <73.4, 75.3, 74.2> 155F <73.3, 75.6, 74.0> Note the highest fermentability is for the 140F/1.7qt/lb mash, while the highest extract is for the 140F/1.25qt/lb mash. Note also that the differences in extract are too small for HB level concern in any but the extremely thick (0.7qt/lb) 140F mash. The variation in fermentability was primarily due to mash temp, tho' thickness clearly was a significant effect.. The same study above also shows more proteolysis in the thicker mashes. It isn't that proteolytic enzymes like thick mash conditions more - it's just that they survive to 140F and 150F in a very thick mash - not in a thin. Generally for hydrolytic enzyme activity you will find a "sweet spot"(sic) or optima in the mash thickness scale for a given temperature. This optima shifts to a thicker mash point as temperature increases, and gradually the optima fades/disappears at a sufficiently high temperature.. - ---- In two separate papers, (JIB 1990, v97, pp85-92, ibid pp93-100) Robert Muller writes of "The Effects of Mashing Temperature and Mash Thickness on Wort Carbohydrate Composition." about higher temp mashes. And also in the influence of other grain components (adjunct grains). His data show a "knee" in the extract vs thickness curves for all malt mashes around 1qt/lb with figures around 1.5 to 2.0 qt/lb seeming to me reasonable compromises. Muller finds that at 70C(158F) that fermentability drops from a high region between 1-1.5qt/lb, to a lower figure from 2.0-3.5qt/lb. Thinner mash is required for adjunct mashes to maintain extract efficiency. Raw barley and wheat still exhibit a "knee" in the extract vs thickness curve a bit above 1qt/lb, but maize and potato starch have no such knee and their extracts continues to climb significantly up to 3.5qt/lb and presumably beyond. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:55:54 -0700 From: Jim Cave <cave at psc.org> Subject: Brian Rezac firing... Well this obviously isn't a rumour, since we've heard it from the horses mouth. There has been a bit of talk of late on the HBD on the AHA generally and why some of us are critical of the organization. This is just another "case" in the long term "regression" of the AHA over time (you can read this with statistical reference or literally!!! Just figure the slope of the line is negative!!). Another reason for our general concern is the obvious deterioration of Zymurgy. Just look at the older issues to see the content. More on all of this later. Jim Cave Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 99 10:07:20 -0500 From: Cory Chadwell Page Navigation <chadwell at ssd.fsi.com> Subject: The Demise of AHA Howdy fellow Brewers in arms, I continue to hear reason after reason for why and how the AHA has let down it's membership and the homebrewing community at large, most recently the unexpected dismissal of Brian Rezac. Many of those denouncing the AHA are homebrewers I've learned to respect for their well thought responses to the occasional query or post I myself have placed on the HDB. It occurs to me that the AHA is only doing what natural selection has taught them to do. They continue to behave badly (in our humble opinions), we complain, and they sign up a new batch of new brewers and give out a few issues of zymurgy. But since no real alternatives exist nothing really changes, the AHA continues to thrive, and we are left only to be shocked when it all happens again in 6 months or so. One primary complaint is the lack of grassroots organizational support the AHA claims to provide in spades. Perhaps it's time that a true grassroots organization tries to provide an alternative to the AHA. We have so many resources available here, everything from business owners to administrators and I believe we even have one former administrator of a fairly well known homebrewing association. It seems to me we should be able to cobble together a upstart homebrew association and a respectable knowledgeable membership. I would earnestly like to hear opinions on how a organization could be started, what we could offer the community, and how it should be addressed. Something like... reasonable membership fee's for bimonthly mailers detailing homebrew experiments and debates like clinit*st, topics to be determined from at large survey's and members get one of those Pat Babcock slogan T-shirts. Stuff like that, just to get an idea what we as a homebrewing community really want. Maybe we don't really have the resources for it, but I'd like to think we could at least put something together that might prompt the AHA to seriously reflect on it's member needs. Feel free to reply in public or private, but I think this is a topic that would do well to be addressed publicly on this forum. Thanks, Cory - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Cory D. Chadwell FlightSafety International Design Engineer 2700 N. Hemlock Circle Navigation / Visual Broken Arrow, Oklahoma 74012 /| chadwell at ssd.fsi.com /c| - 9186919796 at mobile.att.net (text paging 150 characters) / | /| - ------------------------------------------------------ <-----s--- FSI \ | \| SSD \c| - \| Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:41:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Adam Holmes <aaholmes at lamar.ColoState.EDU> Subject: drip pans I just got a used kegerator but it does not have a drip pan underneath the beer faucet. I will definitely buy or make one myself since the fridge will be indoors and drips would fall onto the carpet. Drip pans seem to be $20-$40. My questions: 1) Some drip pans have no drain tube while others do. Any reccomendations from those that have been using them? 2) How do you maintain your drip trays? Do these things get smelly fast? 3) Anyone ever make their own drip tray? I'm looking for cheap first and beauty second. Thanks, Private email OK Adam Holmes Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:39:58 -0600 From: Paul Gatza <paulg at aob.org> Subject: Brian's Departure I terminated Brian Rezac's employment from the AHA yesterday. I have known Brian since the first time he came in after his wife Nancy bought him his start-up kit. We are friends and will continue to be. Brian's amazing interpersonal skills did not, unfortunately, transfer into the administrative realm. Brian was in a probationary period and unfortunately did not meet the terms of that probation. There are standards of employment across this country which nearly all employees must meet that were not being met in this case. It is a sad day at the AHA. Brian's legacy will certainly be positive as Big Brew showed how talented, creative and motivating he can be. I did not take this change lightly, as I I like Brian and I knew it would be unpopular and alienating to the internet homebrewing community. There is more to the picture than the homebrew-community-building work Brian is so successful at, and I don't think it would be appropriate to divulge details without Brian's approval. I have received several e-mails from members who have decided not to renew their memberships over this issue. Everyone must make their own decision, and I respect that. But it is because I work for the members that I had to make a change to protect the interests of the members who entrust us with dues to promote the hobby of homebrewing and run programs for homebrewers. - -- Paul Gatza Director American Homebrewers Association (303) 447-0816 x 122 736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 -- FAX PO Box 1679 paulg at aob.org -- E-MAIL Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info at aob.org -- AOB INFO U.S.A. http://www.beertown.org -- WEB Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:00:02 -0500 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: bugs n such, alt A quick search finds Cahri's Bugs On-Line with pix of Jap beetles and others good and bad. It also includes info on the insects and some methods of control. See: <www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Loge/9474index.html>. I've heard of the tobacco juice and it's insecticidal properties. I've also heard that handling tobacco can result in the transmission of the tobacco mosaic virus to your nightshade vegetables (tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, eggplants). Don't know if it is a momily or not, maybe somebody else can chime in. Garden's Alive is also a great source of info on garden insects and their control. Of course this is a brewing list and not a gardening list, so let me relate a brewing experience. Made the Al K alt recipe recently. My lazy procedure is to let the beer ferment longer than expected before bottling. Instead of testing the wort during fermentation or before bottling, I check it while bottling. Never before had a significantly underfermented beer at bottling time and was quite surprised to find this one was waaayyy underfermented. Since I'd already added my priming sugar and begun bottling, it was a little late to stop. Conditioned at room temp for 10 days and is it ever carbonated. I didn't have time to build a proper starter so I did a quick 1 step up of Wyeast 1338 and added a vial of White Labs "pitchable" Alt yeast with no step up. It was in the primary for a full 2 weeks and the ferment was very vigorous early on and a bit on the warm side (ambient room temp in upper 70's, the fermenter at 69-70). The resulting beer tastes pretty darn good, even the ones that have been kept at room temp for over a month due to a lack of reefer space. So far no burst bottles, but the point is that for this batch I got poor attenuation in the primary. I used normal procedure for aeration, pooring between buckets, and had less break material than usual in the fermenter. My yeast population should have been decent given that I added the White Labs Pitchable as insurance. Too many varibles to pinpoint the reason for the yeast performance, but it reinforces some of the recent comments about the under attenuative performance of Wyeast 1338 and less recent comments on the value of building a starter even for the White Labs yeast. Also indicates the value of testing the wort (hydrometer or Clinitest) for end of fermentation prior to bottling. I have to say that one benefit is this beer has the best head I've ever seen! Can you say meringue? Cheers! Lou Heavner - now planting the Fall garden and planning the Fall brewing calendar in Austin, TX - w/ no basement Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:27:42 -0700 From: "Peter Zien" <PZ.JDZINC at worldnet.att.net> Subject: San Diego BJCP exam The San Diego Homebrew Club, QUAFF, will once again sponsor the BJCP exam later this year. The exam date is scheduled for November 20, 1999 and will be given at the AleSmith Brewery in San Diego. A 10 week comprehensive study course will begin the week of September 13, 1999 and continue up to the exam. Cost of the class is $20. You may take the exam without taking the study course and visa versa. For more information please contact Peter Zien at PZ.JDZINC at worldnet.att.net Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Jul 1999 09:20:35 -0700 From: Jeffry D Luck <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com> Subject: Dishwashers Trying to improve the Dishwasher sterilization process -- has anybody just added bleach to the dishwasher in that little place where the soap goes? Would this kill the nasties that the heat missed? Would it rinse well? ...Of course I'm gonna try it anyway, I just wanted some advance warning. Jeff Luck Salt Lake City, UT USA "Any fool can pull a pint of Guinness, but not just any fool can pull a nice pint of Guinness" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:25:57 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: tobacco as insecticide ... effective but ... Please DO NOT USE TOBACCO PRODUCTS IN YOUR GARDEN (or in your lungs for that matter). It may destroy your garden for a period of years. *** WARNING -- some Science content follows - page down if this offends Using tobacco extract is a well know home garden method of insect control suggested by mumbo-jumbo guru's (like that 'Garden Doctor' fellow on PBS). It is an effective insecticide - but less well known is that a plant disease called Mosaic Virus is common on tobacco products and is readily spread to tomato, pepper, spinach, chard, marigold, petunia, melon and squash plants among others. Most important, M&BS(pp417):states that.Hops plants are subject to mosaic virus! A lethal and non-lethal form exists among hops. The latter saps plant vitality and of course infects other plants. There is no treatment or cure for an infected crop. To quote from Kansas State's Research website re mosaic virus on tomatoes .... ]The tobacco mosaic virus is very ]stable and can persist in contaminated soil, in infected tomato debris, on or in ]the seed coat, and in manufactured tobacco products. The virus is ]transmitted readily from plant to plant by mechanical means. This may simply ]involve [...] brushing against them with contaminated tools, clothing, or hands. [...] ]Recommendations: Virus diseases cannot be controlled once the plant is ]infected. [...] Infected plants should be removed immediately to prevent ]spread [...]. The use of tobacco products during cultural ]practices should be avoided to prevent inoculation of plants with the tobacco ]mosaic virus. Those people using tobacco or working with infected plant ]material should wash their hands thoroughly in soapy water before handling ]tomato plants. The solution suggested is to burn your plants, and let the site lay unplanted for three (!!) seasons. If anyone has already tried this method - best wishes in avoiding this extremely nasty plague. You may not see the effects for a season, and hopefully not at all. But shutting down your garden for 3 years isn't exactly a minor penalty for this method of insect control. Beer, -S Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:59:06 -0800 From: Jeff Hall <hallj at targen.com> Subject: Re: Newbies for breakfast Thomas Murray wrote: >Please someone, show us the last time a "newbie" was torn limb from limb on >this digest. I have always been impressed by the patience and respect that >new brewers are given here. > Shortly after I started receiving the HBD, I purchased a mini-keg (5 L) system. I wondered if there were available for this system any nitrogen cartridges, or if not, had anyone tried using 'whip-its', which contain I believe nitrous oxide. Thinking the HBD would be a good place to get the info, I posted my question. I don't recall anymore if any responses on the digest itself were overly negative, but man did I get flamed on my personal email. Same has happened to a friend of mine who posted. Speaking of mini-kegs, I've used mine a few times now, and each time when I tap, the beer comes out extremely frothy, then settles down into a nice, flat glass of beer. I have even used up a number of extra cartridges trying to force some additional carbonation into the beer by shaking (I doubt the cartidges have enough pressure for this to do any good, but what is there to lose?). I have bottled beer from the same batches, and the bottled beer turns out fine. Instructions for the mini-keg include using less priming sugar which I did, and even with less sugar, the bottles are good, the kegged beer is flat. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Should I try using more priming sugar and risk the exploding keg? My thought is that I wasted $60, and should scrap the system. Please, no personal replies. If you must flame me, have the courtesy to do so on the digest so I can use my already abused 'page-down' key. Thanks, Carbonationless in Seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:03:39 EDT From: HenryZeke at aol.com Subject: Cream Ale Carbonation I am working on an all-extract recipe for a cream ale, but am having trouble with the carbonation. Does anyone have any tips foachieving those smaller softer bubbles? Thx Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:16:13 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Green Beans Brewsters: I wonder if Bob Uhl would mind if I took out a life insurance policy on him with me as the beneficiary? It would probably be a good investment for me. His description of how he cans greens beans by closing up a glass jar and boiling the water *outside* the jar with no boiling inside produces "green beans that taste almost fresh". Green beans, being one of the lowest acid plants we bother to "can", is one of the most dangerous things we have in the cellar even if we pressure can them. I can't imagine the odds if you close up a can and don't even get it to boiling ("cellar"- the name for a "basement" when I was growing up in Ohio.) Bob, resist mightily the temptation to taste that feshly opened jar before cooking. I hate to start this up, but you are living dangerously close to botulism and I cannot let your advice go unnoticed for fear others will take it. Pressure can your green beans, please. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 99 20:55:33 BST From: blades at airtime.co.uk (Liz Blades) Subject: HBD #3088 bitchin Hi, David Wright wrote bemoaning the state of the UK HB industry. As a retailer there I have to hold up my hands and agree with some of his points and can I take a little of your bandwith to reply to some of them.Pg Dn if you want I shan't be offended. >You think you've got problems?How about us poor sods in the UK who've had to >put up with poor quality ingredients and materials for the past 30 >years. It is the British Psyche to get pissed (ratted etc) at as little a cost as possible,hence all these silly b*****s who regularly go to France for cheap booze(but that's another story).Thus when the home brewing of unlimited amounts of beer ,without a licence, became legal in this country it opened up a huge market.(As an aside wine making was always legal in whatever quantity) Alas the emphasis was on cheap rather than quality at that time,in the early 60's, we still had decent breweries in this country. Then the commercial market started to change and the big boys started to buy up the small ones and thus CAMRA was born.By this time the HB industry was established and still seen as cheap.That was when we,as a trade, should have started to look at quality(I was not in the trade at that time nor were many of my contemporaries). Unfortunately the customers were then all for cheap,even today when I try and sell a quality(ie more expensive product) the vast majority are quite rude to me even though they could be making a better quality beer for all of 60p per pint as against the 1.25(at least in the NW of the UK they would be paying in the pub. >Think i'm exaggerating a little,well how about a well known >polypropelyne keg manufacturer,who knowingly supplied kegs with faulty screw >caps, I remember this fight well,anyone who complained was either refunded or given a replacement(at least through my shop)but it was up to the customer to complain until he or she did the retailer had no idea that the goods were faulty.(Rather foolishly we as retailers expect the quality control to be done at manufacturing level)I certainly remember one barrel supplier being put out of business by yours truly as their attitude was"They should put up with it"........Mine was "Why should they?" and got every retailer I knew to return them.(See we are on your side). >or maybe a well established supplier who still supplies hops in >thin,clear plastic bags. It's up to the retailer to reject them or store them in the fridge,(which is what I used to do). Again, a lot of our retailers need to be educated.I was in a very well established shop at the weekend and was amazed to see hops still for sale in this way. >The only magazine in the UK still publishes recipes >that call for'6lbs of sugar and 1lb of malt extract'to make a barley wine. You've found a retailer that still gives out that rag!!!!!!!!! I recycle it,either send it back or dump it. It needs a few fresh writers(the pay aint too good) other than the boring old f***s who seem to dominate the scene here. >thankfully now we have quality suppliers like Clive Donald of'Brupaks' You should support the retailers who support him and not go running off to your local malster/microbrewery for cheap goods,after all they could turn round and tell you "no" in the meantime your retailer could have gone out of business-so then what do you do? >and >clubs like the'Craft Brewing Association'that are dragging UK homebrew into >the 20th century where quality and sound advice are the only watchwords. Any sensible retailer will get you what you want,but please remember we do have to make a profit,after all we have homes,families,cats to support just the same as you.You work for a salary,well so do we. Yours Elizabeth Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:32:01 -0400 (EDT) From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: Boycott the AHA through the clubs system I personally have had enough and would like to see a show of hands. Is there a way we can group together all of the willing AHA registered HB clubs and submit our clubs to be un-registered? I mean what benefits are we really getting? None as far as I can see. I doubt another big brew will be happening any time soon. Please let me know whom I can count on. If there is an interest I will put together an online petition. Thanks -Scott "there has got to be a better way to support each other" Abene === ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net> http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) "The More I know about beer politics, The more I wish I made 120k" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:40:26 -0500 From: "Brian J. Paszkiet" <bpaszkie at ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: re: tasting the Berliner weiss Marc told us about his Berliner Weisse, and the fact that it didn't have enough sourness. Marc said "For those interested in producing a Berliner weiss, I'd take the shortcut and order some L. delbruckii from your source of choice (Wyeast 4335, for those curious). The recent BT article suggested a yeast/bacteria pitching rate of 5:1. I'll step up a German Ale yeast to 2L, then pitch it along with a non-stepped pack of L. delbruckii at 70F. Other than the choice of using cultured bacteria, I think the remaining suggestions from my post two weeks back will work OK. Considering how little I worried about sanitizing on this batch, I'm surprised at how "clean" tasting it is. I don't think I'll boil the wort for the next batch either, instead use 180F water for the sparge." snip I recently attempted producing a Berliner Weisse. I fermented using a larger quantity of yeast cells (German Ale) than L. delbrueckii. I also got very little to no sourness (the beer was fermented for about three weeks, and then bottled). I think one problem is not enough Lactobacillus. These are fairly slow growing bacteria, and I think to make a good Berliner Weisse, you need a good, large, healthy starter of bacteria AND yeast. My Berliner Weisse has been in the bottle for about 4 months, and has not developed any sourness. I have a question for the collective. The beer is quite carbonated, and thus the bottles are under a lot of pressure. Will pressure inhibit the growth of the Lactobacillus? If so, i think my next batch will be left in the carboy until it is fairly sour, and then bottled (unlike this batch, which I bottled before it had gotten sour). Thanks, Brian P. in balmy central Illinois Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 16:30:51 -0500 (CDT) From: BrewInfo <brewinfo at xnet.com> Subject: Beer lines Hello everybody (except Jim, who has told me via private email that he welcomes my absence from the HBD). I'm a bit (ha!) behind in my reading, and actually, I may have even posted on this, so please bear with me... I average only about 4 hours of sleep per night. In a summary post (back in May) regarding a home draught system, Felix said: >Al went on to say that I may want >to consider running the supply hose through a cooling >jacket, to keep the beer in the line cool. In [snip] >John Wilkinson of Grapevine, Texas suggested that >the amount of beer in the line was negligible >(~ 3 oz.) and cooling should not be a problem. John is right about there being very little beer in the lines. Upon further thought, you still may want to cool your long beer lines. Previously, I said that it would avoid loss. At the time, I was thinking of warm beer, but actually, there is a much more important factor: CO2 solubility. At warmer temperatures, the beer will hold less CO2, so if you take a beer that is perfectly carbonated at 50F and run it through 8 feet of 70F hose, the beer will warm up (say, to 55 or 60F) and a lot of the carbonation will come out of the beer as foam. Until the beer cools the line down, you will have a slowly decreasing foaming. For 8' of hose, this may only be a few seconds and thus negligible. I don't know at what point it begins to matter. You may want to design the system so there is ROOM for a cooling jacket and then only add one if there is excessive foaming that subsides halfway through the glass. I do know that commercial systems in bars are often refrigerated... even the ones that are constantly in use. Al. Al Korzonas, Lockport, IL korz at brewinfo.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:01:02 -0400 From: "Michael Maag" <maagm at rica.net> Subject: Underachievers Keith writes: >.>......a lot of knowledgeable, informative posters that have since disappeared from the HBD. I don't know the reason why they jumped ship but there is an undercurrent of "why are these bastards picking on us" in some their posts. We have something similar here in NZ called the tall poppy syndrome, where the underachievers fell the need to cut the successful down to their size.<< Keith, underachievers don't do things like that, we are not competetive enough! The only reason I took the initative to respond is that email is so easy 8*) Underachievers are not guru-wannabe's, we just want to make good beer. I bewail the loss of knowlegable posters too. Mike Maag, in the Shenandoah Valley Underachievers have more fun! Return to table of contents
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