---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re:  Belgian beers? ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  Canadian Amateur Brewers Association's Brew Your Own Beer Seminar ("Rob Jones")
  Propane Burners and Brian R. (dlambright)
  false bottoms for mash tuns (jgibbens)
  Re: Evap Cooling? / Wort chill times (jgibbens)
  re:Pasteur effect (Ilkka Sysil{)
  Permanent Disfigurement?? ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  re: rapping, Refrigerated Yeast, RIMS design? ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Orange Peel ("Fred L. Johnson")
  re: Brian Brew Ha Ha (Dan Cole)
  RE: Newbie ("Frank J. Russo")
  Weizen ("Mike Piersimoni")
  Air/Respiration/Calories (AJ)
  Vendor question: Beer, Beer & More Beer ("Bob Scott")
  Beer & Sweat Party` (Dan Listermann)
  Magazine request (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Hose Length (RCAYOT)
  Wordsmiths (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  My last word on Brian, Paul, and the AHA (Jeff Pursley)
  The Great Budweiser Conspiracy (Ian Forbes)
  Grits, John Smith bitter (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Brewing English ales... (Jeff Renner)
  Homebrew shops in Europe (Michael Rose)
  pressure drop & other xfer phenomena/organizations (Lou.Heavner)
  pCooking/Maillard Worts, Pasteur efect (Dave Burley)
  Re:  raspberry or woodruff syrup in a berliner weiss ("Poirier, Bob")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:06:18 -0600
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <matthew-saunders at uswest.net>
Subject: Re:  Belgian beers?

larson.jt at pg.com writes:

>A friend recently brought me two .75L bottles of beer from Belgium.  I plan to
>try them soon, but would appreciate any description available.  One he
>described
>as "dishwater flavor" (Yum).  They are both made by "F. Boon".  One is a
>"Kriek", the other a "Geuze".  Any help is appreciated.

Both are Belgian Lambics--a wonderful beer style that employs infection of
the beer with brettnomyces.  This imparts a sour flavour that might have a
bit of barnyard odours and flavours to it.  The MOST complex and
interesting beer I have ever tasted is Hannsens Oud Geuze--I still have 4
bottles in my cellar to be savoured on a special occasion.

Geuze is a blend of aged and young lambics.

Kriek is a lambic that has undergone a secondary fermentation with
cherries.  It too will have the sourness of the geuze, but will also have a
wonderful cherry aroma and flavour.

I'm assuming that you don't have belgian glassware.  That being the case,
drink your lambics out of a wine goblet.  It will add to the flavours and
aromas.

Cheers!
Matthew now in CO





"We have to work in the theatre of our own time,
with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones




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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:22:50 -0500
From: "Rob Jones" <robjones at pathcom.com>
Subject: Canadian Amateur Brewers Association's Brew Your Own Beer Seminar

Hi,

We're holding a "first batch" Brew Your Own Beer Seminar to stimulate some
interest from the un-initiated homebrewers out there.

It will be a combination seminar and demo of the process of making a batch
of malt extract based brown ale with speciality grains and hops added.

The $15 dollar entrance fee will include membership in CABA until the end of
2000, 15% off the necessary start-up equipment and hops from Brew Your Own
on McCaul St. in Toronto, free speciality grains and malt extract for the
recipe supplied by Premier Malts, and take home notes with seminar recipe
included.

The seminar will be held at C'est What?, Front St.,Toronto, on Sunday
September 26, starting at 2pm.

Good Brewing,
Rob Jones








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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 99 21:57:33 -600
From: dlambright at socket.net
Subject: Propane Burners and Brian R.

Hello:

In my continuing development as a homebrewer,
I  recently moved out of my apartment
into a house with a real live basement.
I'm trying to figure out exactly how
to set the basement up (visions of dedicated
refridgerators, full grain set ups, and
kegging systems dancing in my head) and have
some questions about propane cookers.

I've got an outdoor cooker right now that
has served me well in the past, when I was
breweing on my balcony.  I'm afraid to
use it in the basement, which only has one
window.  I can set up fans and install a
carbon monoxide alarm, but I'm concerned that
I would still be creating a deathtrap.  What's
the best solution for brewing indoors (other
than a stove)?  Are there cookers designed for
inside use?  Maybe something other than propane?

Now, about Brian being sacked from AHA.  I'm no
a member, and my involvment with the group
is only what I've read in the HBD (there's
not even a club around here), but I'd like
to echo Dave Houseman's comments in HBD #3092.
As I've read the recent storm of posts, both
here and on the Brewery's message board, it seems
to me that none of us really know that much about
the circumstances surrounding this action.  Do
any of us know exactly what Paul meant by his
comments about Brian not meeting administrative
requirements?  It sounds like Brian was great
at PR and working for the membership, but was
that his job?  Has anyone seen a job description
stating what Brian was supposed to be doing?
Having worked in administration in a public
agency, I know that things are often not
what they seem--especially in personnel issues.

I'm not trying to argue one side or the other
in this question, so please don't turn on the
flames...  :-)  I'm simply trying to point out
how little we really know about this situation.
I know nothing about Brian, but he must be pretty
cool to inspire this much outrage over his firing.
That doesn't change the fact, however, that none
of us really know the true situation.  Now, maybe
someone out there does.  If that's the case,
that's a whole 'nother ballgame and I would like
for that person to speak out and enlighten us.
In the meantime, most of the outrage I'm seeing
seems to be a bit premature.

Just my $.02...  Thanks for listening.

Donovan



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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:31:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: jgibbens at umr.edu
Subject: false bottoms for mash tuns

Hello all,

I'm building a new 10 gal mash tun based on a Gott water cooler.  Does 
anyone have any tricks for sealing the false bottom to the sides and 
still being able to remove it?  Thanks.

Joe Gibbens


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:22:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: jgibbens at umr.edu
Subject: Re: Evap Cooling? / Wort chill times

No, I've never tried evaporative cooling.  Instead of making your "its 
NOT a dry heat" even worse, how about getting a small refridgerator and 
installing a temp specific thermostat?  If thats too expensive, you can 
try using a basement floor as a heat sink.  Our house is air conditioned 
to 78F, but by placing my fermenter on a concrete floor, it has 
stabilized at 72F.

Hey, thanks for the S.G table.  unfortunately my hydrometer just got 
cracked from a hot wort experience.

Regarding wort chillers, have you ever looked into using a counter flow 
chiller?  The comercial ones are expensive but its easy to build one.

Take 20' of 3/8" OD, 1/4" ID copper tube and insert it into a 5/8 ID 
flexible vilyl tube.  Then coil it.  Drill out 2 compression fittings for 
the copper tube with a bit slightly over 3/8".  Solder the compression 
fittings into 2 1/2" copper T fittings.  On the sides of the T opposite 
the compression fittings, insert 2 small pieces of 1/2" hard copper 
tubing for the 5/8" hose to clamp on to.  A garden hose will fit over the 
remaining part of the T.  I run mine with 55F well water, and it works 
fine.  If you can't build the fittings, they are available at homebrew 
stores.  (Phill chill) no association.


About the Newbie stuff, It is generally not a good idea to P#s$ off a 
free source of information, especially if you're a Newbie like me.  What 
did you say to him anyway?


Joe Gibbens


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:06:41 +0000 (EEST)
From: Ilkka Sysil{ <isysila at clinet.fi>
Subject: re:Pasteur effect

Hellox!

Go down to Crabtree effect, a.k.a. "Reverse Pasteur Effect".

Amply malty regards,

Ilkka Sysila (the author of "Small-Scale Brewing")


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:53:35 +1000
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au>
Subject: Permanent Disfigurement??

>if you continue to insult me
>I will definitely demonstrate how (for the first time) to tear a newbie
from
>limb to limb.
>
>Happy Brewing
>Phil Yates.

"I like the part where he mentions permanent disfigurement and then wishes
us
all happy brewing! What a swell guy, I think he really cares."

Dear T?, Tom?,
       Can I call you Thomas? I never made any mention of permanent
disfigurement! This is outrageous slander and punishable by having to spend
a day with Fred Garvin at the BentDick. Oh you won't do this again after a
day with Fred! You cannot possibly know that I always, ALWAYS replace
removed limbs!!
       On the matter of your evapo cooling, it seems that you have answered
your own question. Yes it does work and if you stand the fermenter in a dish
of water you can drape the ends of the towel into the water to keep up the
cooling supply. This is the same principle we use out here with canvas water
bags strapped to the front of our cars. Out here in summer even the dingoes
retreat to the pub for a beer! The dryer the atmosphere the better the
evaporation cooling technique will work. I used to find I could keep the
fermenter up to 6C cooler with this method. But it still wasn't the answer
so I plunged into refrigeration instead. Five fridges later.........

Cheers
Phil Yates
The Loving Caring One.



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Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:54:51
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: rapping, Refrigerated Yeast, RIMS design?

Christopher Farley posted:

>AJ talks about rapping bottles to cause overfoaming in counterpressure 
>bottle filling. This allows you to cap on foam...   I personally find 
>it unproductive to cause foaming after I've painstakingly filled a 
>bottle with the intent of eliminating foaming. 

Rather than rapping the bottle, what I do is withdraw the counterpressure
bottle filler so the filling tube is just above the level of brew in the
bottle the bottle then tease open the CO2 valve.  This will fill the vapor
space with foam with no loss of carbonation from rapping.  It does take a
bit of practice to get it right.  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Scott Johnson asked if he should use some yeast he'd stored in the fridge
without feeding for a few weeks and a couple of months.  

I've used yeast (Wyeast 1056 and Calif. Lager) that was stored at ~45 degF
and topped with fermented out wort several times.  Four months has been the
longest.  Usually the yeast is from the primary and is about 1-2" of yeast
in a qt. mason jar.  I always make a starter with it since some batches of
it are a bit slow to take off.  To reduce thermal shock, I insulate the jar
with a jacket affair made from camping pad foam.  Don't know if this
actually helps, but it does make me feel better.
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Doug Brown asked re: RIMS heater sizing:

>Does anybody out there know a calculation for BTU based on cal/minute
>assuming 100 percent efficiency. 

Fiddling with info from Marks' ME handbook, 1 BTU = 252 cal  

For the usual electric element in a tube recirc. RIMS heater, the following
is useful:  1kW = 7 degF increase across the heater at 1 GPM. With my
system, I get about 5 degF dt at 1 GPM.  Need a minor correction for the
difference in specific heat between wort and water, and, if your really
pickly, for mash temp. vs. the 70 degF that the conversion above is based on.




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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 05:29:38 -0400
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Orange Peel

For the Belgian Ale enthusiasts:

A few questions about orange peel for Belgian ales:

Many Belgian recipes specify Curacao bitter orange peel.  Does this mean the
zest of the orange peel or does it mean to grind the entire peel up?  Or
does one add it in large chunks?  More importantly, how does one obtain such
an ingredient?  Are there any substitution?  Surely there are some
American-grown, readily available oranges that could adequately be
substituted.  Advice?
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 06:22:49 -0400
From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: re: Brian Brew Ha Ha

Gentlemen, I beg your indulgence...

Dave Houseman says:

>The AHA staff is down to two full time people (although there is some
>support staffs in the AOB).  Organization isn't working out like it is
>supposed to be.  So what do they do?  Can't afford to hire more people.
>It's an unfortunate business decision that Paul took but a courageous one.
>Personally, I really like Brian as well.  He's the sort of people we want
>in the hobby and in the AHA.  But if the AHA is to help their members by
>providing the services you want, then they have to have the ability to
>staff accordingly to make that happen.  Get all the facts, then think
about it
>before sounding off....

Dave, I must respectfully disagree. Coming from the strategic side of
business, I have some exposure to business/organizational
strategies/theories. 

In the past, "Cost Control' has been the en vogue theory, which
incorporated the theories of reorganization, reengineering, "slashing and
burning", layoffs, etc. 
At some point, managers realized that there was a huge amount of fixed
overhead functions that could not be ultimately reduced (you still needed
an accounting department, an accounts payable dept, payroll, management,
etc.) and the true key to success was to spread the fixed costs over an
increasing base of volume. In other words, if you can't cut overhead
anymore, find out a way to sell more widgets and keep your overhead from
growing proportionally. If you could do 10% more volume of business, but
only increase your fixed/overhead costs by 5%, you would be ahead of the
game. Thus the theory of "Growth". 

How does this relate to the AHA? Office employees = overhead. Memberships =
widgets.

If the AHA is seeing declining membership (is this reported in their tax
filings), they maybe should not look at cost control as the "solution" to
declining profits and look towards "growth". Spread those fixed costs over
an increasing base of volume.

How does the AHA grow? Like any business, by providing "value". What is the
current value provide by the AHA? Subscriptions to Zymurgy, AHA only
competitions, AHA discounts, efforts on legalization, promotion of
homebrewing, etc.

Compare a search of the HBD for "Zymurgy" and "Brewing Techniques" and
you'll see the relative value (to this group) of the magazines. 

How many homebrew competitions are there in the country, and how many
sponsored by the AHA? Probably a small minority. Sure, winning an AHA
competition stands for more, but that is just a perception thing; they are
both judged by the same BJCP judges, etc.

Discounts offered by the AHA may be a legitimate value not seen elsewhere.
But as I understand it the biggest benefit is a discount to GABF. What
percentage of members utilize this benefit?

And as has been mentioned in prior HBD's, the AHA has been missing from
recent legalization battles (either from intentional exclusion or lack of
perceived value in the effort).

Finally (for me on this topic), the AHA has been "couped" by BT in the
promotion of homebrewing. Where was the AHA when BT was working on the
Hombrew Publicity Campaign (creating affordable, high quality commercials
for use by local homebrew shops)? Where is the AHA now on the HPC?

My opinions are my own,
Dan Cole
Roanoke, VA


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:34:59 -0400
From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com>
Subject: RE: Newbie

>From: James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net>
>Subject: newby 1st posting...1) Does anyone have any ale recipes/experience
using grits
  as an adjunct?  <<

Welcome and do not be afraid to post. What doesn't kill you will only make
you stronger.  You are guaranteed to learn something hear.

I recently made a CAP's, Classic American Pilsner, using grits and corn
meal.  My local store, Homebrew Haus, did not have flaked maze at the time.
I questioned members here as to how to properly cook the adjunct and why I
am cooking it.  I now have a good understanding, allowing to better use
adjuncts in my brews.  The one thing I did not find out is when cooking corn
how do I know when I am done?  The corn, mixed with .5# malt, was first held
 at  130F 20 minutes / 155F 30 minutes / Boiled 90 minutes.  Then on cooliong
to 170F added to my main mash.

My brew is still in the secondary, and I am 800 miles from home, so I do not
know how it has turned out just yet.  Possibly this weekend I will get to
find out.  Here is the recipe I used:

Mild Ale Malt		#7.75
Weissheimer Munich	#1.00
Flaked Maize 		#2.50
Hallertau	1.oz 		3.1%	60 min	Pellet
Perle		0.50oz 	7.0%	60 min	Pellet
Hallertau	0.50oz 	3.8%	10 min	Pellet

(5 Gal)
OG. 1.050-1.060

Frank
Havelock, NC
FJRusso at Coastalnet.com



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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:45:03 -0700
From: "Mike Piersimoni" <msp at dplus.net>
Subject: Weizen

Just made a batch of Crystal Raspberry Weizen.
I used Weizenstephen yeast from White Labs and was trying for little more
banana then what I achieved.
I read the temperature should be around 68 deg F and the higher it is
 70-72 deg) the more banana I'll get.
My average temp.was around (70-72).
Just kegged it and was wondering what I could do at this point to achieve
more banana.

MIke



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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:31:45 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Air/Respiration/Calories

Harlan Bauer asks about cleaning up air for continuously aerated yeast
propagation. It's my personal feeling that one should simply avoid
having to worry about this potential source of infection by using
bottled oxygen (or  molecularly sieved oxygen if one can justify the
expense of the sieve) rather than air. Obviously this is more expensive
because the air is free (so is the oxygen from a sieve) but it shouldn't
be terribly so if the oxygen is metered. I have in mind for my own use
the following scheme (you all know about my ever lengthening list of
things I want to do): Four 2L flasks on a shaker each fitted with a
fritted stainless aeration stone fed by an electically operated valve
(see the Cole Parmer Catalog). One of the flasks also holds the probe
from a DO meter with an analog output (e.g. my old Orion 860). The
ananlog output goes to a voltage input on a suitable controller (in my
case I'd use the PID controller I use during mashing - it just gathers
dust otherwise) and an on-off output would operate the gas valve. Adjust
the set point for the voltage corresponding to a desired O2 level, put
in some hysteresis and you're off and running. Judging by the amount of
O2 required to oxygenate starters and worts manually to 200% or so I'd
be surprised if that much oxygen got used.

Without a controller the system could simply be pulsed on for say 30
seconds every half hour or so using a simple timer. The amazing
ingenuity of HBD readers could doubtless come up with dozzens of schemes
to obtain the same result.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* *

On the same subject, Nathaniel Lansing wonders about my statement that
continuous oxygenation holds yeast in growth phase. Note that the phrase
I used was "growth phase" and not "respiration phase". Many posters to
and readers of this digest have gotten all wrapped up over the use of
oxygen by yeast and a search of the archives on this subject will
unearth a rainy afternoon's (at least) reading. The central cause of
difficulty is, I think, that biochemists (amateur and professional) have
a very narrow definition of what constitutes respiration and that is a
process called "oxidative phosphorylation". Respiration, thus defined,
is not the only way an organism uses oxygen. It turns out that >brewing
strains< of S. cerevesiae do not "respire" in the presence of glucose
above a rather modest level but given oxygen (and suitable nutrients)
they will consume it to produce biomass, in particular, cell membrane
material. Respiration, OTOH, produces only water, CO2 and ATP (energy).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Today's Tip From Commercial Brewing is a copy of something I posted to
IBS Brewer's Forum a few days back concerning caloric content of beer.
That's a question that comes up here from time to time.

John Watt asked:

>Does anyone know if there is a way to estimate calories and/or sugar
>content of
>a beer based on the OG and FG?


ASBC Method Beer-33 gives the caloric content of beer as

Calories/100g = 6.9*ABW + 4(Real Extract - Ash)

Calories/mL = (calories/100g)*(specific gravity)/100

where Real Extract in in degrees Plato and Ash is the % ash content of
the beer by weight. ABW can be estimated from initial and final
gravities by

ABW = (0.39661 + 0.0017091*Po + 1.0788E-5*Po^2)*(Po - Pf)

where Po is the original extract (Plato) and Pf is the apparent extract
(also Plato). This formula represents a least squares fit to Balling's
table.

Real extract is reasonably easily estimated by measuring 100 mL of beer
in a volumetric flask, transferring quantitiatively (i.e. rinse the
flask with distilled water and add the rinsings) to a beaker and
evaporating to about 30 mL. Return to the volumetric flask. Rinse the
beaker and add the rinsings to the flask and then make up to 100 mL. Now

measure the gravity and convert to Plato.

Alternatively, the real extract can be estimated quite closely by

Real_extract = Po + 0.010665*ABW*Po - 2.0665*ABW

Ash will probably be a couple of tenths of a % at most and can, thus, be

ignored.

Carbohydrates are specified (ASBC Method Beer-6) as the real extract
less protein and ash. Protein is a bit dicey to measure but is usually
small relative to the real extract as is ash. Thus, for a rough
approximation, estimate the sugars as the real extract.

[Ref. DeClerk Vol II p 426 - 428]



- --
A. J. deLange
Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.




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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 06:19:02 -0700
From: "Bob Scott" <rrscott at jps.net>
Subject: Vendor question: Beer, Beer & More Beer

I've ordered via internet 4 times.  Got what I ordered with no problems.

Bob Scott

>From: Bruce & Amber Carpenter <alaconn at arkansas.net
>Subject: Vendor question

>Greetings,

>Has anyone had experience ordering from Beer, Beer & More Beer in
>Concord, CA? I am interested in ordering from them, but being out here
>in the wilds of south Arkansas, I have no way of visiting them
>personally. Any comments?

>Thanks!
>Bruce Carpenter



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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:41:15 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Beer & Sweat Party`

Rod Prather ( rodpr at iquest.net ) asks about the Bloatarian sacred 
festival
called "Beer and Sweat"  which celebrates the obivious quite well thank
you.  This year, as it has been for some time, it will be held at the
Springdale, Ohio ( really Cincinnati) Howard Johnson's back parking lot
away from prying eyes.  The date is Saturday August 14, 1999 and the time

is about when they get the tent up ( 11:00 am) to whenever the last
participant falls over.  A fiver gets you in.

We sponsor a beer competition that requires the beer to be delivered in
kegs - no bottles.  We like lots of beer and this seems to work.  Last 
year
we had 120 kegs on tap.  All entries must be preregestered.  Check out 
the
Bloatarian page of hbd.org.

We also offer the BJCP exam that day!

Feel free to contact me at (513) 731-1130, (513) 731-3938 fax or
72723.1707 at compuserve.com

Dan Listermann      dan at listermann.com


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:47:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Magazine request

Hi. I'm looking to buy recent back issues of Brewing Techniques but am too
cheap to pay the back issue prices from the publisher. Anyone have some lying
around they'd like to sell?

 -Alan Meeker




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Date: 27 Jul 1999 08:39:10 -0400
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: Hose Length

     Thanks to whoever thought up this thread title!
     
     I think that Dave is on the right track.  The pressure from the keg is 
     transmitted throught the beer line to the dispense valve, and if you 
     put a pressure guage on the end of the line it would read the same as 
     the pressure in the keg....eventually... depending on the viscosity of 
     the beer, or tranmitting hydraulic fluid.  The drop in pressure when 
     dispensing beer is caused by the beers viscosity and the fact that the 
     flow rate of beer at the wall of the hose is zero, the flow rate in 
     the center of the line is higher, and the flow rate gradient is called 
     the shear rate.  The viscosity of the beer causes an energy drop along 
     the length of hose.  There are two problems with dispensing beer and 
     foaming, the first problem is with high shear rate, this can cause the 
     CO2 to come out of solution and cause foam.  For example, just crack 
     the valve on your dispense slightly, what happens?  The beer that does 
     come out is really foamy.  The second problem is velocity.  If you 
     have your beer exiting the dispense at high velocity, when it hits the 
     glass, it shears itself, and foam happens!  The reason a long length 
     of beer line works is that it reduces the exit velocity (PRESSURE) at 
     low shear rate.  If we took Daves analogy to the extreme, and put a 
     pin hole in a keg, we would shear the crap out of the beer, and it 
     would decarbonate very quickly.  
     
     Roger    


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:45:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Wordsmiths


OH NO. Not ANOTHER dictionary thread!!!

>BTW, Paul said it was a "personnel" matter, not a "personal"
>matter.  I suggest you haul out the Webster's, as the two are
>entirely different things.

Anyone know the Chech spellings of these?....

 -Alan Meeker




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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:17:41 -0500
From: Jeff Pursley <JPursley at Tulsa.E2M.net>
Subject: My last word on Brian, Paul, and the AHA 

Right now we have only one national homebrewer's organization, the AHA.
Someone might start another, but our hobby probably cannot support two
national organizations right now. In one of Paul Gatza's recent comments on
the Brian Rezac firing, he writes, in part: 

"I have received several e-mails from members who have decided not to renew
their memberships over this issue.... But it is because I work for the
members that I had to make a change to protect the interests of the members
who entrust us with dues to promote the hobby of homebrewing and run
programs for homebrewers."

My comment to Paul: Leave it to us, the homebrewers, to "promote the hobby
of homebrewing." If the AHA would focus on "running programs for
homebrewers", I believe that we would all be better served. 

The HBD has seen many recent comments in Brian's defense. Most of the
comments run along these lines: "He was always there when I called." "He
always called me back." "Brian was always willing to talk beer and support
homebrewing." etc., etc. This tells me that we valued Brian's service to us,
the homebrewers. 

There have been many complaints about the AHA.  Most of the comments run
along these lines: "I can't get my club competition sanctioned in time to
get good judges." "The AHA has screwed up scheduling for the style
competitions." "The AHA takes my money and all I get is a magazine in
decline." This tells me that we want services, not promotion. Hang out with
some homebrewers. They will tell you all you want to know about brewing, and
more. What can the AHA do to promote homebrewing that we cannot do? What the
AHA could do that we cannot easily do is offer good programs, such as the
Big Brew, properly scheduled competitions, support for the clubs, support
for the judging program, etc., etc. 

To the AHA: Focus less on promotions, public relations, publishing, and
speaking tours. Focus everything on one thing, programs for your members.
Only then will you be a successful, valuable association. I'll give you
another 6 months

Jeff Pursley
Tulsa, OK


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:30:30 -0500
From: Ian_Forbes at aici.com (Ian Forbes)
Subject: The Great Budweiser Conspiracy



I posted the following to the Brewery's "Brews and Views"
yesterday, and since it is still making me chuckle, I thought I
would post it here as well.  Please note that I'm not attacking
Bud, it just happened to be the beer that was being poured.

>Here's a little story that some of you might find funny.

I was sitting at a bar in a well-known restaurant chain last
night for a couple of hours. The bartender is responsible for
the bar patrons as well as the regular diners (i.e., if I'm
sitting at a table and order a drink, my waitress comes to the
bar to pick up the drink).

Anyway, after about a half an hour, I noticed a bartender
pouring a Bud for a gentleman who had just come up to the bar.
When the mug was about half full, the tap started shooting
foam; without skipping a beat, the bartender looked over his
shoulder to see if the gentleman was watching (he wasn't) and
slid the mug over to the Bud Lite tap and topped it off. The
Bud tap had been "tapped" - it was shooting nothing but foam.
So, I thinking to myself, "I wonder when they're gonna tap a
new keg". Well, about 3 minutes go by when along comes another
bartender to pour a Bud. Pulls the tap, and nothing happens.
Again, without a second thought, he slides the mug under the
Bud lite tap, and fills the mug. This scene is repeated until
all the bartenders on duty realize that the Bud keg is tapped,
and from that point on I guess people were only ordering Bud
Lite cause that's all I saw poured.

I guess nobody ordering these beers realized that they were
getting Bud Lite instead of Bud; I didn't see a single one come
back.

So you be the judge; Bud and Bud Lite - same beer, different
bottle.

Enjoy!
Ian
Hamden, CT


Kind of reminds me of that Simpson's episode where they have
the Duff, Duff Lite and Duff Dry bottling lines all being
supplied from the same tank.


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:38:49 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Grits, John Smith bitter

James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net> wrote:

>  1) Does anyone have any ale recipes/experience using grits
>  as an adjunct?  I added some to a batch that very luckily turned
>  out great, but I don't know why or how I was blessed. Definitely, I
>  need more expert advice.

Jett, you've asked a question that has been discussed at great length over
the past few years, and a search of the archives (http://www.hbd.org) for
grits, maize, corn, CAP (Classic American Pilsner, my favorite),  or CACA
(Classic American Cream Ale) will bring lots of hits.  Grits or flakes are
also used in many English bitters.

Grits need to be mashed, and as a partial grain brewer, this can present
some problems.  Basically, you need to boil the grits to make the starch
available to the malt enzymes.  As I just posted (hasn't appeared as I
write this, though), standard commercial (and my) procedure is to mash the
grits first with ~30% as much malt as grits, then boil for 20-40 minutes,
then add to the main mash, or, in your case, to a mini-mash.  Another 30%
malt would be enough for enzymes, but you may want to use more for a good
filter bed.

You asked for info on

>reproducing John Smith's (non-exported) most excellent
>  Extra Smooth Bitter from Tadcaster, Yorkshire

>From the "Extra Smooth" in the name, I suspect that this is one of those
"draught" beers with nitrogen widget.  These beers have very low
carbonation when poured.  It's hard to know what this beer is like, but
Yorkshhire bitters tend to have fairly high levels of diacetyl (buttery or
butterscotch), which can be increased by yeast choice and by "dropping,"
which is racking the 24 hour old fermenting beer with some aeration.  Here
is dope from the the brewery as reported in _Real Ale Almanac_ on John
Smith's (part of the giant Scottish Courage) two real bitters, which may or
may not be similar to the pasteurized, packaged product:

"John Smith's Cask Bitter OG 1036  ABV 3.8%  Ingredients: pale ale malt
(84%), black malt (1%), concentrated sugar (15%), small % of caramel for
colour.  26 units of color [EBC],  Target hop pellets. 32.5 units of
bitterness."

"John Smith's Magnet OG 1040  ABV 4.0%  Ingredients: pale ale malt (84%),
black malt (1%), concentrated sugar (15%), small % of caramel for colour.
37 units of color [EBC],  Target hop pellets. 32.5 units of bitterness."

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:38:43 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Brewing English ales...

delgado at communique.net (John Delgado) wrote:
>I'm seeking advice for achieving the "English ale flavor" of my
>favorite commercial English ales -- Spitfire, Bishop's Finger,
>Fuller's ESB, Old Peculiar, Whitbread, etc. I'm talking about that
>woody, minerally profile, along with the nice English hop flavor/aroma
>(from Fuggles and Goldings?)

Well, those first two are heavy with diacetyl (see my previous post).  It
can vary on tap in England, and I find that they can be overwhelmed by it
in the bottle here (also variable).  The Fuller's ESB and Whitbread have
yeasts named after them that are commonly available, and the ESB  (Wyeast
1968?) produces diacetyl.

Sorry, I don't have time now to check _The Real Ale Almanac_ (5th ed.,
Roger Protz, Niel Wilson Publishing, available in US bookstores, I got mine
at Borders), but it should have some further suggestions of ingredients.
Yeast selection is all important.

Good luck.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:54:19 -0700
From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campuscw.net>
Subject: Homebrew shops in Europe

    I'm trying to find some homebrew shops in Europe.
(I'm looking for under modified malt)
If your a homebrew shop overseas and speak English,
please email me.

Thanks,  mike rose       Riverside, Calif.    USA
mrose at ucr.campuscw.net

Head Brewer, Dextrin Milkshake Brewery




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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:48:15 -0500
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: pressure drop & other xfer phenomena/organizations

     Greetings,

     There have been numerous discussions lately on flow in hoses, heat
     exchanger design, mash extraction rates, and such.  I'm not going to
     chew up a lot of space with stuff that belongs in an engineering
     class, but I can offer a simplistic insight.  Think of 2 main things.
     One is driving force which is the pressure difference or temperature
     difference or concentration difference which causes flow or heat
     transfer or diffusion.  The bigger the driving force, the more
     enthusiastically the system will drive towards equilibrium.  The other
     thing to consider is resistance(s).  There are many sources of
     resistance and their relative contribution to the overall resistance
     can vary depending on the size and nature of the driving force and the
     geometry or other physical parameters of the system.  Dave Burley got
     it right for flow:

     >>>The pressure drop per foot of a hose (through
     which a liquid is <flowing>, by the way) is the
     pressure differential at the ends divided by the
     hose length. If the fluid is not flowing in the hose,
     but the hose is filled and stopped at the exit with
     a valve, the pressure is the same at both ends
     and that is the head pressure. The diameter
     and the various restrictions in the hose control
      the <flow rate>.  Using a longer hose will
     automatically slow the flow, such that the pin
     valve ( cobra head) controls a lower
     percentage of the flow and the pressure drop
     across this valve is lower and reduces the
     chance of " breakout." Thereby reducing
     the chance of foam. A longer hose, a
     smaller diameter hose, restricted or wound
     hose or a different kind of delivery valve
     ( large diameter when open and gate
     valve in design) should ameliorate the
     foam problem.<<<

     Although, if there are additional restrictions or resistances in the
     hose, like pinch points or "splices" of different hose materials, the
     pressure drop will not be exactly linear.  The trick is to know which
     resistances are relatively large and important and which are
     relatively small and unimportant.  In dispense, you want to balance
     the system so that you don't take a large pressure drop across the
     valve.  In Wort chilling, you want to design the system to drop the
     temperature as quickly and often with as little water poured down the
     drain as possible.  Anyway, the point is to examine your driving
     force(s) and try to make them larger or smaller based on your
     requirements.  Then examine the resistances and try to reduce or
     eliminate them or at least the ones that are creating problems.  Those
     of you knowledgeable in the area of transport phenomena may have more
     details to contribute.  Those of you who are completely baffled, just
     ask me, or the forum in general as there are many who can and have
     built/bought systems which make and dispense good beer and who are
     willing to help you out.

     Good luck to anybody creating a new organization to compete with the
     AHA.  Competition is a good thing and I wish you well!  However, there
     are many aspects to creating and sustaining an organization whether it
     is for profit or non-profit.  Don't shoot from the hip!  Make a plan.
     Set short term goals and long term goals.  Define measurements and
     plan for an acceptable exit in the event you are unsuccessful.  Be
     sure you know what your "product" is.  I don't know Charlie and don't
     belong to AHA, but I suspect he was at the right place at the right
     time and caught an excellent wave.  Even though there is obvious
     disenchantment with AHA, it still exists and looks like competition to
     me. The "market" we are told is perhaps changing, but not really
     growing.  There are also other things like BT and BYO and HBD not to
     mention a bazillion internet sites to suck time and money from those
     interested in homebrewing.  I'm not trying to be negative.  To the
     contrary, I any new homebrewing organization to be successful and
     thrive.  I might even join it.

     Cheers!

     Lou - UNdoctor of the lagniappe brewery - something extra in every sip
     Austin, TX


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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:35:26 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: pCooking/Maillard Worts, Pasteur efect

Brewsters:

Paul Campbell baked a mash in the oven at 150F
and believes it contributed to the maltiness of his
wort. I have done this oven routine ( covered mash
kettle) many times to control the mash temperature
in the days before I constructed an insulating
container from 1" polystyrene foam.  The insulated
box is a better solution as there is no overheating
or hot spots as Paul experienced

Maillard reactions take place at 212F and above,
which is the reason the two Charlies suggest using
a pressure cooker to get there and experience
the maltiness this process is famous for. Holding
in the oven at 150F probably didn't do much
unless the crust on top of the mash got to a
higher temperature.

BTW always be very careful to use wort ( not a
mash) which has already been boiled before
you put it into the pressure cooker and use an
internal pan or bowl to contain it. This will help
prevent the plugging of the steam vent by the
proteinaceous foam ( AKA GD foam up) from
the wort. Transfer the boiled wort carefully to
prevent excessive air entrainment. Or only fill
the pCooker about 1/3 full, boil first with the lid
off until the foam subsides and then carefully
place the lid on and cook as prescribed.

Do not use hops in this procedure to avoid
plugging of the vent.

Plugging is a real thing and having had a spray
of hot peas ( don't do this) cover the kitchen in 

my early days of pCooking, I can attest to the
danger of improper use of a pCooker.
- ----------------------------------------
Nathaniel Lansing comments on AJ Delange's
comment that keeping a wort continually aerated
will keep the yeast in a growth phase.  And
comments on the sound thrubbing ( at least
so he felt) when he had suggested that aeration
would cause yeast to exhibit the Pasteur effect
and delay the beginning of apparent fermentation.
Contributors apparently said brewing yeast
cannot exhibit the Pasteur effect above
0.1% glucose.

Right off the bat, AJ is correct, aeration and
food does keep yeast in the growth phase
as producers of baking yeast will attribute.
Since they are interested in growing yeast
and not brewing beer, their molasses and
nitrogen containing growth media is constantly
aerated. If they didn't at the high yeast
populations they operate, oxygen
dissolved in the media would last about 20
seconds!

AJ also did an interesting experiment some
time ago  in which he demonstrated that in a
pitched beginning wort, saturated with oxygen,
the oxygen only lasted about 30 minutes.

So what does this say about the need to
saturate the wort with oxygen before pitching?
Brewers, especially in Britain adhere to this
policy by spraying their cooled wort through air.
M&BS  demonstrated that yeast recycled
through unaerated worts eventually suffered
a reduced ability to attenuate ( like five cycles
if I recall correctly).  What is the cause of this?

Poor lipid content in the membranes and
walls of yeast bodies suffering from the inability
to produce the necessary lipids to build
membranes due to the lack of oxygen which
is a necessary part of the chemical process.
This prevents them from being active in high
or even normal alcohol contents.

Solution? Stir the starter in the presence of
air and pour off the starter beer to avoid the
offtastes of the aldehydes and ketones and
like oxygenated products before pitching.
Aerate the wort. 


Now to the Pasteur effect.  There is no
relationship between the Pasteur effect and
yeast growth as Nathaniel seems to have
insinuated. The Pasteur effect is one in which
an anaerobic glycolysis ( i.e. using
carbohydrates in a normal anaerobic fermentation
process which produces alcohol) were to
become aerobic, the production of  alcohol
ceases as the higher energy yielded by the
conversion totally to carbon dioxide is
preferred.  At concentrations exceeding
1% glucose, this switch over does not take
place with brewing and baking yeasts and
alcohol continues to be produced even in
the presence of oxygen. This is known as
the "contre-effet Pasteur" or the Crabtree effect.

Most of the oft discussed delay at the beginning
of the fermentation is due simply  to the
fact that carbon dioxide has yet to saturate
the wort.  Fermentation begins immediately
when the yeast is pitched.
 


Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley

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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:35:40 -0500
From: "Poirier, Bob" <Bob_Poirier at adc.com>
Subject: Re:  raspberry or woodruff syrup in a berliner weiss

Greetings!!

In HBD #3093, Tidmarsh Major wrote:

<snip>
>...Perhaps a shot of raspberry juice in a Bavarian weizen might also 
>be good, with the tartness of the raspberry juice 
>substituting for the tartness of the beer.
<snip>

While visiting ChicagoLand recently, I had the opportunity to visit O'Grady's 
Brewery & Pub (372 East Golf Road, Arlington Heights).  I had several pints of 
their Raspberry Weizen, a Bavarian-style weizen with lots of raspberry aroma, 
but a subtle flavor contribution.  The banana & clove flavors/aromas melded 
very nicely with the raspberry.  Overall a very tasty brew, IMHO.  Once I get 
a good weizen recipe down pat, I'm gonna try making a raspberry version!

Just my $0.02...

Bob P.
East Haven, CT

PS - Mickey Finn's (in Libertyville) Weizen KICKS ASS!!


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