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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Peels and pieces (C78KCK)
  re: Need help with carbonation control... (Darryl Richman)
  Yeast Bank (hplabs!amdahl!uunet!ingr!tesla!steve)
  Help with stopped fermentation (jmellby)
  carbonation (Algis R Korzonas +1 312 979 8583)
  ALBANY? (CRF)
  HOPEFULLY HELPFUL ADVICE (CRF)
  RE: Homebrew Digest for December 19, 1988 ("1107-CD&I/VIRUS DISEASE")


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date:    Tue, 20 Dec 88 07:19 EST
From: C78KCK%IRISHMVS.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Peels and pieces

cheryl Feinstein writes:
>>also make liqueurs and hope to get into vinting someday.              n
==I too am a dabbler in liquers and cordials (any handy
==defintions to tell the two apart?) and I would like to
==pose a question about them.
==many of the recipes I have use the skin or peel from a
==fruit. I have always wondered if this was safe in light
==of all the pesticides and things they put on green fruit
==to make it look ripe.
==I maybe laboring under a presumption, but I figure if the
==fruit has been waxed, then the pesticide is in a layer between
==the skin and the colorization on the outside?
==I don't live in a citrus zone, so all our oranges and such are
==shipped in.
==Thoughts anyone?
==R.allen Jervis
==voyager at irishmvs.bitnet

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Date: Tue, 20 Dec 88 06:08:03 PST
From: Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com>
Subject: re: Need help with carbonation control...

Two things comes to mind regarding inconcistent carbonation levels.
The first is that measuring corn sugar by volume is a somewhat risky
proposition.  Depending on how it gets packed, you can see quite a
difference in the actual amount you get, just like flour (or water
treatment salts).  And since you are carbonating at a relatively low
level (although I usually use 90gms, which is roughly 1/2 a cup, for
British style ales), this difference can become very evidient.  In
order to get truly repeatable results, you should add corn sugar by
weight.

The other aspect may be when you bottle.  If your beer is more still
sometimes when you get to bottling, it will have less fizz later on.
If it has merely slowed down, or appears still because of a cold snap,
you could end up with higher levels of carbonation in your finished
product.  If, at bottling time, you take a gravity reading and it
shows that you are still at 1.020, the beer probably still has some
fermenting to do (unless it is a barleywine...).  On the other hand,
if you are down to 1.008 (and you didn't add great quantities of
sugar), you wouldn't expect it to go any further.  This is the reason
most of the books suggest that bottling time has come when the beer
doesn't move for 3 days.

		--Darryl Richman
(The Falcon's Nest homebrewer's BBS sysop 818 349 5891)


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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 88 15:45:58 CST
From: hpfcla!hplabs!amdahl!uunet!ingr!tesla!steve
Subject: Yeast Bank
Full-Name: 

 Here is a report on the "yeast bank" system of freezing yeast cultures for
long-term storage. I bought this system about 6 months ago, but wanted to wait
until I knew whether it worked or not before talking about it. It has worked
well for me, and here is a commentary on what it is and how it works.
 The "Yeast-Bank" is sold by William's brewing in San Leandro, CA. (and maybe
others). It consists of a one quart plastic freezer container which contains
five culture tubes, a bottle of "Freeze-shield" solution, a glass eyedropper,
and instructions. The culture tubes are about 3/4" by 3", with a cap which
seals tightly, and are individually wrapped in sterile packages (like
disposable syringes). The solution is a pale blue, with no discernable odor.
The following is the way I use the system. It is mostly the same as the
directions suggest, but there are some differences. There are some assumptions
that I make when I brew and culture. One of these is that tap water is
essentially sterile. This is probably far from true, but it hasn't caused me
a problem yet. I don't like to brew with this water, but I will rinse with it
after sanitizing.I buy a bag-in-a-bag type of yeast starter and break the
inner bag. When it swells, I soak a 16 oz bottle, stopper, and airlock in
a strong bleach solution for at least 45 minutes, then rinse with hot tap
water. I prepare a solution using about 2/3 cup light DME and 1/4 tsp of
yeast nutrient by boiling the solution, then immerse the bottom of the pan
in ice water to quick-chill it. I put the solution in the bottle, pour in the
yeast starter from the bag, and put on the airlock. A few days later, when
activity has slowed, I brew a batch of beer. When it is time to pitch, I
sanitize the eyedropper, shake up the starter solution to suspend all the
yeast, (Time out for another brewing assumption. I assume that baggies out
of the box are essentially sterile. If I need to shake a carboy or bottle, I
will wipe around the top with a strong bleach solution on a paper towel, then
put a baggie over the opening, put my hand or thumb over the mouth of the
bottle and baggie, and shake.) and use the dropper to fill as many culture
tubes as I need with the starter solution. I put the caps on loosely, and
stand them up in the frig for awhile for the yeast to settle. I take the
rest of the starter and pitch it in the new beer. Later, when the yeast in the
culture tubes has settled to the bottom, I sanitize the dropper again, and
use it to remove the starter solution from the top of the yeast. I sanitize
the dropper again (to prevent ever contaminating the "Freeze-shield" solution)
and fill each tube about 3/4 full with "Freeze-shield". I put the caps on the
tubes tightly, and shake them to mix the yeast into the solution. Then I wrap
the tubes in paper towels, label them, put them in the plastic freezer
container with the lid on, and put them in the freezer. The instructions
recommend doing this to slow the freezing rate of the cultures down. The
amount of yeast sediment in each tube is about the volume of a grain of
barley. I also keep the "Freeze-shield" solution in the freezer when I'm
not using it. To re-start a culture, I make a solution as above, thaw
and shake
a culture, and add it to the starter. There is usually no activity for about
24 hours, then the starter takes off. I always make sure that the gas coming
from the airlock smells good before I pitch. It takes about 3 or 4 days for
the starter to get ready to pitch, and after pitching, I get a good
fermentation going in about 12 hours. The instructions say that you can save
cultures from subsequent starters, up to three or four generations of yeast,
but I don't do that. It's too easy to just make a bunch from the original
starter. Replacement culture tubes are 5/$2.50, and the solution is a few
bucks for 4 oz, which lasts a while. If I make six cultures from a package
of yeast, my yeast cost ends up being less than $1 a batch. It really doesn't
take much time, since I always make starters anyway. I have successfully
frozen and re-started both ale and lager strains with no problems. I hope this
helps someone. I would like to hear comments from anyone else who has used
this system. If anyone out there has the analytical gear needed to figure out
what's in freeze-shield, or is familiar with the medical world and knows where
to get the culture tubes, call me or send email.

Happy Holidays!

	Steve Conklin, Intergraph Corp.,  Huntsville, AL 35807
	W(205) 772-4013 {tesla!steve at ingr.com | uunet!ingr!tesla!steve}

Relax! Don't worry. Have a homebrew.



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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 88 08:55:12 CST
From: jmellby at ngstl1.csc.ti.com
Subject: Help with stopped fermentation

Help!  I need some fermentation suggestions.  I am in the middle of a
batch:
2 Cans Munton & Fison Old Ale Extract
2 Lbs Pale Malt
2 Oz Northern Brewer Hops
1 tsp Gypsum
2 Packages of Ale yeast (from the Monton & Fison cans)
For a 5-gallon mix.

It started at 1054 and by the next morning was bubbling as furiously as
anything I have ever had.  BUT!  Two days later it stopped bubbling.
I measured it and transfered to the secondary.

It was 1024.  I hoped it would continue in the secondary, but no luck.
It 1024 a reasonable specific gravity for this?  Can I go ahead and bottle
it or should I wait?

I need some suggestions.

Surviving the American Dream
John R. Mellby                       Texas Instruments
jmellby%ngstl1.ti.com                P.O.Box 660246, MS 3645
                                     Dallas Texas, 75266
(214)517-5370                       (214)343-7585

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Date: Tue, 20 Dec 88 10:26:39 MST
From: hpfcla!hpcea!hplabs!utah-cs!iwtsf!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 312
979 8583)
Subject: carbonation
Full-Name: 

The problem that you are probably experiencing Tony, is that
your carbonation is coming from two different sources.  One 
is the priming sugar (which is consistent) and the other is bacterial
infection (which is inconsistent) -- that explains why the
same amount of priming sugar causes widely varying carbonation.
I also think you may be a little shy with the sugar --
I use 1/2 CUP to 3/4 CUP of dextrose for priming.
My advice is to increase your priming sugar to 1/2 CUP and
re-evaluate your sanitation procedures.

Al.

P.S. The Beatles mention homebrewing in Rock and Roll Music:
	"...we'll be drinking homebrew from a wooden cup..."

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Date:     Tue, 20 Dec 88 19:16 EDT
From: <CRF%IFASGNV.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  ALBANY?

Hello again!

Is there anyone out there from Albany, NY, who tried to reach me direct?  I
was editing a file, and _something_ from Albany flashed across my screen as I
was typing which ended in "How's the weather?"  Since I'm a pretty fast
typist, part of it was obscured by the cursor as it moved.  And, there was no
new e-mail for me.  So I've *no* idea what that was all about!  If someone can
enlighten me, please do!

Thank you!

                                           Cheryl Feinstein (call me "Cher")
                                           "CRF at IFASGNV.BITNET"


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Date:     Tue, 20 Dec 88 18:23 EDT
From: <CRF%IFASGNV.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  HOPEFULLY HELPFUL ADVICE

Hello, everyone!

This posting is going to reply to several things I've seen in the last couple
of digests, and also to answer some direct enquiries I've had.  This last is
to cover any e-mail that goes "boing!"  I will also be attempting to reach
individuals directly; I would appreciate it if anyone I successfully reach
acknowledges both receipt of e-mail and tells me which gateway worked.

First, for those who have already asked, or are wondering:  the answer is yes,
the historical re-enactment group I'm a member of is the Society for Creative
Anachronism.  If you've just read this and are now wondering what the SCA is,
contact me and ask; I'll gladly explain.

To Darryl Richman, regarding your microscope and such:  I'm not entirely
certain, but it is possible that your 'scope has sufficient magnification to
let you see the structure of yeast cells.  To do this, you will indeed need a
stain.  If you can, contact someone you know with access to microbiology
equipment and stains.  You could try to do it at home, but in my opinion would
not be worth all the muss, fuss, and bother.  To do the other things you
mention, such as a cell count (this would be your "yeast density") would be
difficult outside a lab.  If we can communicate directly, I'll be glad to tell
you more about basic microbiology, and give you a better idea of what's
involved.  Feel free to ask.  I would also suggest you check a campus
bookstore for a book on basic microbiology; it's not a difficult subject, so
don't be phazed.

To Tony Giannnone, regarding his carbonation problem:  after several cases of
trial-and-error, I finally took the advice I'm about to offer you.  I haven't
had a whit of trouble since.  Let your wort go until fermentation
_stops_ or 14
days pass.  If the brew is still fermenting at 14 days, check the specific
gravity; it's probably ready to bottle (NOTE:  the 14 days is no joke-- I did
a Russian Imperial Stout with something like 18 lbs. of malt in 5 gallons,
plus grains, and it was still fermenting quite nicely at 14 days!).  Once the
fermentation stops, bottle ASAP, priming with 7/8 cup corn sugar.  I have
found the usual 3/4 cup to be too flat-- the 7/8 cup (suggested by the friend
whose advice this was) has produced a nice, snappy degree of carbonation every
time.

Thanks for your attention; I hope this helps.


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Date: 20 Dec 88 22:49:00 EST
From: "1107-CD&I/VIRUS DISEASE" <henchal at wrair.arpa>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest for December 19, 1988

Darryl:

     I saw your question to Cheryl and thought that I might
respond.  I have been a microbiologist for 17 years and a
homebrewer for about a year.  I hope I don't step on anyone's
toes by jumping in . :-)

     When you pitch your yeast you would like to get about 10
million cells per milliliter final concentration.  In the
laboratory, we use a hemacytometer to count microbial cells.  A
hemacytometer is a special glass slide with a grided area of
defined size and volume.  In order to get accurate counts takes a
little bit of training.  You can purchase a hemacytometer from
any good scientific supply house.  (If you need a recommendation,
send me a note.)  If you don't want to buy a hemacytometer, you
can approximate the amount of yeast you are using by counting the
cells in a single microscopic field. However, you need to
standardize this a little. I suggest the following:

1. Begin a fresh starter. 
2.  At regular periods (every 8 hours, or even shorter depending
upon your schedule) withdraw a small volume of liquid with a
sanitized (preferably sterile) eye dropper or pipet.
3.  Place one drop on a microscope slide and float a cover slip
on it.  (One drop will be about 0.02-0.05 ml).  You might have to
dilute you sample at later stages, because there will be too many
cells.
4.  Count all of the cells you see in at least three microscopic
fields.  Determine the average.
5.  Continue until the fermentation has completed.
6.  Graph your results.

I have not performed this experiment with beer wort, but I have
used this method in other systems.  What you should see is
clearly defined periods: lag, exponential growth phase, a peak
number of cells, and then a steady decline.  The total number,
that is the quantiative results, is not important.  When it is
time to pitch your yeast, your starter should be in that
exponential phase of growth that you identified.  The beauty of
the system is that yeast only grow to a particular density (about
100 million cells per milliliter depending upon the strain)
regardless of the volume or container they are placed.  Once you
standardize your observations you should be able to monitor all
of your yeast preparations.  I would be interested in hearing
about your results if you attempt this.
   
     Bacteria (lets hope you don't have any  :->) are usually
identified using Gram's Crystal Violet.  You can purchase a Gram
staining kit from the same places that sell hemacytometers. 
Yeast cells can be stained using a variety of methods.  One
method I favor is trypan blue which is excluded by living cells. 
This allows you to estimate the number of living cells in your
culture.  If you give me a little time I might be able to make
more specific recommendations or send you a reference.  Your
public library should have some basic manuals on microbiology
that can help you with some of the techniques.  Again send me a
note if you get stuck and I'll see what I can do.
     
     Frankly, I wouldn't bother with the microscope, since all of
that it is not really necessary.  If you pitch about 5% of your
batch with actively growing starter (for lagers, use about
10%)....and you should use a fresh starter before the yeast has
completely settled...you should approximate the right amount of
yeast for active fermentation.  Your own experience and intuition
is probably all you really need to get good fermentations.  I
don't use a microscope except for solving some very special
homebrewing problems.  A microscope is useful for tracking down
problems with bacterial contamination.  If you get some
experience identifying problem bacteria, you might be able to
diagnose sanitation problems by examining your mash, wort or beer
at different stages.  You can also inspect the condition of your
yeast if you are storing it for long periods of time.  (Actively
growing yeast have regular, round or oval shapes with multiple
buds.)

I hope that this has been helpful.

ERIK A. HENCHAL, Ph.D.
<henchal at wrair.arpa>


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End of HOMEBREW Digest

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