HOMEBREW Digest #3101 Wed 04 August 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Phloaters, AHA ("Spies, Jay")
  Water Boiling Question ("Paul Ward")
  ORANGE PEEL FOR WITBIER ("David M. Campbell")
  p-cooking (Dave Burley)
  1st runnings, 2nd runnings ("Paul Valdiviez")
  Of Insects and Arachnids (Eric.Fouch)
  Sugars, Starters, and Falsies (loretta_)
  Advice Needed - Experiment in Progress (Eric Caldwell)
  short thin lines, pressure drop/cereal mashes/not sourmash... ("Stephen Alexander")
  pCooker/hops/botulism - the sequel ("Stephen Alexander")
  Immersion cooler coil in corny primary? ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Pressure cooking answers ("Rich, Charles")
  Re:Enyymes ("Frank J. Russo")
  fermentation is great (James Jerome)
  All Round Best RIMS/HERMS etc Request ("Gribbles IT Operations")
  Your inquiry to HBD # 3073 (Brett Spivy)
  Continuous yeast feeding (Brett Spivy)
  Eric Panthers Idea Of Brewing? ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  ADELSCOTT Receip (Djhbrew)
  rejuvenating pH 'trodes ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Backyard hops (Joel Plutchak)
  Honey; Also Wort Chillers ("Swintosky, Michael D.")
  RE:  Brian, Changes at the AHA ("Dr. Pervo")
  Re: canning wort starters (Jim Layton)
  Hop garden woes ("Charles T. Major")
  Whirlpooling ("Spies, Jay")
  science/art (John Wilkinson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:25:28 -0400 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: Phloaters, AHA All - I've been out of the HBD loop for about a month now, and imagine my surprise when I popped my head back in just in time for the semi-annual Phil's Phloater Advice Phlurry. :) Anyway, here's a gadget I came up with for use with my phloater, reposted from a 1998 HBD to save you all the searching hassles. It's not unlike the "slit tubing" thing, but IMO the "BB Snake" seals better...hope some of you find it useful. >>>HOMEBREW Digest #2744 Fri 19 June 1998 ...with a good number of folks talking about using 10-gallon Gotts and Phils Phloaters, I thought I would share a gadget hint that has been of tremendous value. I have continually had problems with the false bottom floating up at dough-in, leaking grains under the edge of the bottom and clogging up the works, even when I tried to manually hold the bottom down with a potato masher while simultaneously stirring and doughing in (there's a mental picture . . .) Compounding this problem is the fact that the Gott that I use has a small bump right in the middle of the bottom where the exit elbow sits, making it hard to get a flush fit. After many exasperating sparges where I had to blow into the outlet tube every 5 seconds or so to clear the damn thing, I finally found the perfect solution. Take exactly 35" of 3/4" ID vinyl tubing (this fits around the bottom diameter of the Phalse bottom and the cooler wall, leaving just enough room to fit in a stopper / bulkhead and outlet tubing. Get 2 #3 solid stoppers. Soak the tubing in hot water so it becomes pliable, and jam one of the stoppers completely inside the tubing. Fill the tubing with BB's. Stopper the other end in exactly the same manner. Place this "snake" around the outside of the Phalse bottom before adding your strike water, and dough in as usual. The weight of the snake holds the Phil's bottom down, and the width of the tubing ensures that there is a tight seal between the cooler wall and the edge of the Phalse bottom. The snake weighs about 4 pounds. The B-wine was the 1st batch that I used this for, and *not one* husk leaked through. I also got crystal clear runoff after about 2 pints of recirc. No water leaked into the tubing, so the BB's were dry, and didn't contaminate the mash. Try it, it works like a champ.<<< Also, I read with disgust the firing of Brian Rezac. Notwithstanding the fact that Paul Gatza may be a fine administrator and swell human being in his own right, I think the AHA made a tremendous mistake in firing Brian. Why? Because he was committed to the homebrewing community. Period. Judging from the amount of positive responses from people who had contact with him (that's my experience as well), I'd say that he made more inroads toward tying together the AHA and the community that it supposedly serves than any other AHA figure in recent memory (Charlie P certainly ain't doin' it for me...) The AHA may have had valid personnel reasons for wanting to relieve Brian of his post. However, as Paul himself said, Brian had "tremendous interpersonal skills". OK, then, switch him over to another position. Losing the progress that Brian made with the likes of the HBD, among others, is one step forward, three back. Brian's not the administrative type? Fine, let him do what he does best. I thought that Paul was supposed to be the "administrator." I'm not really sure *what* Cathy does... It's obvious that the AHA needs more personnel to adequately do the job of acting as advocate and representative to the homebrewing community. Do Paul and Cathy plan on picking up the slack left by Brian's departure, or will they just hire and fire another figurehead? Jethro - duck and cover, dude. Hey AHA -- why not suck off a little of Uncle Charlie's overinflated salary to fund a "homebrewing community outreach" position for Brian? Why not recognize the time, effort and positive contributions that he made? WHY NOT LISTEN TO YOUR MEMBERSHIP, AHA?? Aren't they supposed to be working for us? Enough ranting...personally, I like Scott's idea of an alternate organization made up of homebrewing advocates, instead of the parasitic spectacle that the AHA has become. I'm with you. Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:47:48 -0400 From: "Paul Ward" <paulw at doc.state.vt.us> Subject: Water Boiling Question Just a quicky for the knowledgeable: How long do you have to boil 5 - 8 gallons (US) of water to get an acceptable drop in disolved oxygen? I don't have the luxury of pre-boiling the night before. You know, I never used to worry about things like this before reading the HBD. Paul in Vermont paulw at doc.state.vt.us Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:58:50 -0400 From: "David M. Campbell" <David.Campbell at po-box.esu.edu> Subject: ORANGE PEEL FOR WITBIER I'm confused from an earlier post about using orange peel for flavoring a Witbier. I thought the "zest" of an orange was essentially the peel only. Is this not true? Also, for those of us who don't have measuring equipment, how many orange peels constitute an ounce? Thanks, Dave > Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:17:25 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: p-cooking Brewsters: Charles Rich apparently didn't like being identified as one of the "Charlies" in my comments on p-cooking. Sorry, no intention to offend. Only my girlfriends and wife ever called me "Davie". Could this be the start of something? I do have to underline my concern for Charles' recommendation of p-cooking mash and hops. Just because you do something a lot of times does not mean it is safe to do it. People jump off cliffs with parachutes, and usually survive. Does that make this activity safe? There may be a way to cook hops and mash safely, but things that foam or can plug the pressure controller should be used cautiously and at a distance. Not really possible with a p-cooker under normal home conditons. The manufacturer of my pressure cooker ( Fagor) says: "Do not cook such foods as apple sauce, cranberries,* pearl barley*, *oatmeal* or *other cereals*, split peas, noodles, macaroni, rhubarb or spaghetti. These foods tend to foam, froth and sputter and may block the pressure release valve." I interpret this to include malt and adjuncts in the "pearl barley" or "other cereals" classification and to note this is *not* recommended by the manufacturer who I assume is an expert on this subject. Frankly, I do not see the need to p-cook the mash or hops. If you wish to enhance the efficiency of recovery of bittering components, hops could perhaps be cooked separately from the wort and be done safely, especially using the lidded inner vessel Charles recommends. I wonder what effect the high temperature has on the hops' aroma? Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:05:43 -0700 From: "Paul Valdiviez" <brewpab at iwon.com> Subject: 1st runnings, 2nd runnings First time poster, long time lurker. Hopefully someone can assist. The next batch I brew will be a double batch: Barleywine 1st runnings, Bitter 2nd runnings. I would like to make 5 gal of each, but this is flexible. Although I have possible recipes to use, I can not find any procedures to do this. Mostly what I am interested in is: 1) when to stop collection for the barleywine, and 2) whether or not to re-mash the grains after collecting the for the Barleywine, and If I do re-mash, at what temps and for how long. Any ideas? Thanks. (private e-mails okay) Paul V. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:32:00 -0400 From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com Subject: Of Insects and Arachnids I feel the need to dispel the dispensation of misinformation in this forum once again! Joy says: "I'm in southern Virginia and there is a moderate size wasp finds every tube like opening to fill with mud and larvae. I think the wasp places an insect with it's egg. The combination of mud, insect or youngster, etc. completely plugs the tube. " NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! The Mud Dauber wasp does fill holes with mud and eggs, but they do not I repeat DO NOT place insects in with the egg. They stuff the tubes with stung spiders. Spiders are not insects, but members of the class Archnida. Stung spider, stung spider, egg, seal with mud. Stung spider, stung spider, egg, seal with mud. Stung spider, stung spider, egg, seal with mud. Stung spider, stung spider, egg, seal with mud. GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS!! I have seen larger wasps that that use grasshoppers and katydids instead of spiders, but they are too large to plug an orifice of this size, they don't pack mud, and prefer digging tunnels to stuffing holes. Now I must change myself. Fred Garvin Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:35:53 -0400 (EDT) From: loretta_ at alloymail.com Subject: Sugars, Starters, and Falsies Hello HBD'rs! >From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu >Subject: Q: adding kettle sugars at END of the boil? Hi Darrell! One thing to watch out for would be inadequate mixing. I once added a few pounds of honey to the last few minutes of the boil to get some sanitizing of the honey while retaining aromatics. I stirred (gently) during cooling, but upon racking to the fermenter, I found most of the honey in the hot/cold break in the bottom of the pot. >What would the result be if I were to supplement the >smack pack with one rehydrated Munton's Gold, or a >Coopers dry yeast? Would it make more sense to just >run the risk of under-pitching....or should I use >dry yeast with the Swedish #1742 WYeast? >Thankyou in advance for any advice you can render. ...Darrell <terminally intermediate all-grain brewer> Most likely the dry yeast would overwhelm the pitched smack pack. Pitching the smack pack without stepping it up will give you a 20-30 hour lag time. Some brewsters let their wort cool this long before pitching a good sized starter, but I would recommend against either. HEY JOE! (where you goin' with that gun in your hand?) >I'm building a new 10 gal mash tun based on a >Gott water cooler. Does anyone have any tricks >for sealing the false bottom to the sides and >still being able to remove it? Thanks.Joe, If you used a piece of rigid tubing i.e. copper, to run down through the center of the false bottom to the spigot on the side, the rigid tubing would hold the false bottom down. Or, build a slotted drain manifold out of 1/2" CPVC like I did. It cost about $5 for the pipe and fittings. Loretta! - ----------------------------------------------- Get your free email at http://www.alloymail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 12:58:07 -0600 From: Eric Caldwell <eric at aob.org> Subject: Advice Needed - Experiment in Progress First time posting, but this seemed like a question y'all might have some fun with... I'm in the process of creating a hybrid dubbel/barleywine (barleywine grains with Trappist yeast) and it's smelling really good coming out of secondary. I've been considering putting a slice of orange in some of the bottles and wondering if anyone had experience in using whole fruit slices during bottle conditioning. I'm trying to figure out a) what I could expect it to do to the brew, b) what it would do to the orange, and c) would the orange stay preserved indefinately (important question since it's a barleywine and may be stashed for a period of many many moons). Thanks in advance! Eric Caldwell Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:14:33 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: short thin lines, pressure drop/cereal mashes/not sourmash... After David's post and my own calculation, I ran out and replaced a 1/4" x ~7.5ft Foxx line with a food grade vinyl 3/16" by 6ft. It really does reduce foaming (same beer, same head pressure) - even through a picnic tap (which now remains wide open at 15psig). Looks like size does matter. *** Page down a bit to skip over some flow equations ... Then Roger mistakenly thinks I have made an error ... >but I see a problem waaaay in the beginning: > > "dP = L (in feet) * 0.56psi + 0.43 psi [ 1/4" ID tubing, 2.5 > fl.oz/sec ] (where the 0.43 psi is the kinetic term)" > > You have an equation which contains a sum of factors with different > units, No Roger. The original equations were, as usual, unitless (not dimensionless) and I *explicitly* deleted the unit and dimension from the 'L' factor when I wrote "(in feet)". which is a convention more widely used than writing "L/ft". If you prefer then read the equation as "dP = L * 0.56psi/ft + 0.43 psi" that's fine too. There is no error in my previous post. > also: "differential (dP above) is proportional to v_2." > don't see any squared term where does this come from? Not saying > you're wrong, you just don't make a case like that! Because of the recent tirade against the technical, and space limitations I presented only the results not the development. Since someone is interested, one example tersely follows. Tho' knowing that the pressure drop is (almost) linear with V^2 is very useful info - probably more useful than memorizing the derivation. First determine if the flow is turbulent of laminar. ... The reynold number 'RN' = rho*vbar*Diam / mu , where rho is the mass density, vbar is the mean velocity, mu is the viscosity, and 'Diam' or 'D' is the tube diamter. I assumed a (mu/rho) value around 1.4 ^10^-6 meter^2/sec which matches very cold water. The reynolds number assuming any reasonable velocity and tube diameter is turbulent (not laminar) [RN >>2200] flow and so the total pressure drop (smooth round tube turbulent flow assumption) is" dP = [ C' * (Length/Diam) + k ] * [ (rho * vbar * vbar)/2 ] Where 'Length' or 'L' is tube (pipe) length C' is the Prandt-Karman Law coefficient (unitless) available from tables and approx formula (and in our case is 0.030 +- 15%) and dependent only on the reynolds number. 'k' is a unitless coefficient of the kinetic term which varies a bit based on the tube entrance shape from (1.09 rounded to 1.40 squared). Of course for a fixed flow rate F (assume we fill a glass in a fixed time) vbar = F / Area = F * 4 / (pi * Diam * Diam) where F is flow rate. substituting for vbar and the coefficients ... dP ~= [ 0.030 * L/D + 1.09] * rho * 8 * F^2 / [ pi^2 * D^4 ] dP ~= [ .0243*L/D + 0.883 ] * rho * F^2/D^4 Applying some units, known quantities and conversion factors we have ... rho ~= 1gm/cc (the density of water or beer approx). F = 2.5fl.oz/sec = 74cc/sec (my guess for a decent flow rate) F^2 = 5476 cm^6/sec^2 D = 0.635 cm ( for 1/4" ID tubing ) D^4 = 0.1626 cm^4 1gm/cm-sec^2 = 1 dyne/sq.cm (from definition of dyne) 1psi = 68947 dynes/sq.cm (a conversion factor from tables) 1ft = 30.48cm then ... dP = [ 0.0243*L/(0.635cm) + 0.883] * 1 * 5476 / 0.1626 <gm /cm-s^2> dP ~= [1289 *(L/cm) + 29755] dynes/sq.cm dP ~= [1289 *(L/cm)(30.48cm/ft) + 29755] dynes/sq.cm * (1psi/68947 dyne/sq.cm) dP ~= 0.57psi * L/ft + 0.431 psi which is the previously posted result for 1/4" tubing, 2.5fl.oz/sec flow. Anyone interested can (with a table of coefficients) derive the results for other tubes. == Jeff Renner writes of 30% malt in a grit mash. I purchased (thru Jeff, and the auspices of the good guys in AABG) some Durst distiller's malt. My initial conjecture was that this extremely diastatic malt might impart a green or off flavor. It does not. After using some in an ale, it appears to have a relatively soft and neutral flavor profile. What I did find out was that 11% distillers malt and 89% raw wheat not only is sufficient for a good cereal mash, but achieved a negative iodine test at <60 min at 65C and a bump to 72C !! [ realize that additional starch was released by the time I boiled the raw wheat] Durst distiller's malt is an excellent choice for cereal mashes and certainly the malt I will use in my next corn grit pre-mash - at perhaps 10-15%. == As long as everyone is breaking out those dictionaries - note the difference between a (bacterial) acid rest and a sourmash. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:00:40 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: pCooker/hops/botulism - the sequel I agree that clogging a canner or pCooker is a safety issue, but underfilling a 22qt canner to 3.5 gallons has never in my experience clogged even the pinhole release, much less interfered with the other two ~1/4" safety releases. Use your own judgement, *BUT* be aware that a sealed/clogged heated pressure vessel is essentially a bomb, and metal shrapnel is unfriendly to lifeforms. Charlies internal 3gal pot makes good sense. I (as usual) agree with most of what Charlie Rich writes but on the hops issue - Charlie suggests: >Use less a tenth of the boiling hops you'd expect and you may still overdo it, The bittering level cannot hit 10X - that is impossible. A normal 60 minute boil extracts and isomerizes about 25% to 35% of the bittering agents. My experience indicate that the bittering is very roughly 2X during an extensive (40') pCook. I do not generally use pCooking as a super efficient means of bittering beer (tho' it can be). Instead I add a small amount of the bittering hops to the pCooker/canner in order to decrease potential foaming and to improve break. === Someone asked about canning starter wort. 20' can at 15psi will do it. Try to hit starter SG values in the wort (1.030 to 1.040) otherwise you will have to dilute the wort and sanitation issues arise... === I have to disagree with Joy Henson a bit. The CDC website notes that honey/clostridium is a specific threat to infants. Infant digestive tracts are insufficiently acid to prevent clostridium growth and that is the source of the problem. Adults can and do eat spores without incident. CDC papers from 1989 show 98 deaths in 23 reporting (US) states that year from botulism. 75 were infants. "To help prevent infant botulism, infants less than 12 months old should not be fed honey." - so says the CDC. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:13:19 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> Subject: Immersion cooler coil in corny primary? After trying an ice/fan box (like Ken's) and cooled water baths as fermenting chambers, I'm building something less bulky and hopefully more efficient: a long, small diameter copper immersion cooling coil inside an insulated corny keg primary fermenter. Cooling water will be pumped from a ice water bath through the cooling coil. Temp. control will be by cycling the pump on and off or by varying the pump speed. Has anyone been done this before or have any thoughts on the approach? TIA! c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:38:40 -0700 From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at filenet.com> Subject: Pressure cooking answers In HBD #3098 Scott Moore asked about pressure cooking wort: >Is it advisable to put the wort directly in the cooker or are there better >methods to avoid scorching? I have done it that way a few times but don't recommend it, mostly just to keep my cooker clean. I now always use a lidded inner vessel, described a few days ago, and recommend it. As far as scorching goes with a directly filled p-cooker, once up to pressure you'll use a pretty small flame to maintain temp. Less than a simmering flame, so there's not much occasion for scorching. If there were a problem with foamover (I've never seen it) the lid would help to spoil it and direct the foam to the sides and to the waterbath underneath instead of to the guage and vent above. Foaming can only occur with cavitation (boiling) which doesn't happen in a closed system like the p-cooker. The vapor pressure is the same as the pressure inside. If your p-cooker has a jiggler relief valve then possibly you'd have some while it jiggles and equilibrates, but that should only be brief and not a big pressure differential. However, you *would* get a riotous boil and foamover if you removed the jiggler prematurely; before your cooker cooled to normal boiling temps or atmospheric pressure. This is a very important part of learning how to use your p-cooker safely. >Is there an advantage to separating the hot break when I put it back in the >kettle or should I just dump in everything? Just leave the hotbreak behind. But more importantly I wouldn't just "dump everything in". That's a lot of hot liquid to handle and could be disasterous if spilled. Try ladling it gently with a pan until it's a manageable sized volume. If you have a pump, I simply put my takeup into the p-cooked wort and transfer it that way. Much safer and airless to boot! >Pressure cooking the wort may turn out to be the best advice I've ever >gotten and the idea was born here on the HBD. My thanks to both Charlies >and others for their inspired thought. Thanks! I got the idea from Charlie Scandrett in the old HBD's and I believe he referenced Alfa Laval, the European megabrewery fabricators for some of his information. PS: I noticed a typo when I talked about pressure hopping in my last post: >... I don't recommend it because the effect is *so* extreme. Use less a tenth of the boiling hops you'd expect and you may still overdo it, even when added back to the main collection. > That should have been, "use less than a tenth of the boiling hops ..." Cheers, Charles Rich (Bothell, Washington) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:43:55 -0400 From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com> Subject: Re:Enyymes I want to take just a minute to thank Steve Alexander for his dissertation on enzymes. It is one of those writings I plan to keep and past on to my brew club. Informative and not boring. Good Job Steve, and thanks Frank Russo Havelock, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 21:17:21 +0000 From: James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net> Subject: fermentation is great Hi All, I have a 5 gallon batch of Scottish Ale bubbling along nicely. Does anyone remember the joy felt and the grin experienced when that fermentation lock is steadily bloop-bloop-blooping away? Hopefully, the joy will still be there when is properly conditioned and sampled. Must have patience....must have patience....(repeat mantra hourly, daily...) As to AHA and Zymurgy... Yeah, I renewed my initial membership (read subscrcription) to AHA last week, and I also succumbed to the offer from BYO. I'm starting out and I want all the info I can get. At the very least I know the grain of salt I have to apply, but I haven't been around long enough to wade through the politics and back issues of HBD and make a comittment to one side or the other. Charlie P.s book got my attention, and it made the whole process seem less intimidating. Now, I am homebrewing...I have FOUND my hobby---soon to be obsession. Thus CP can't be the devil. However I have expanded my base of resources and have found that there is a great deal more out there than TNCJHB. I think I'll wait a year or so before pronouncing my opinion on the AHA, Brian's firing and related threads. Thankx to Jeff Renner as to the John Smith's Extra Smooth Bitter information, and the whereabouts of the Real Ale Almanac (my local bookseller has it on order for me). Concerning Grits; I asked and I received. All I wanted to know and more. Thanks to all who replied in the forum and privately. Stanford's database and the Cat's Meow hate my system, but I'm learning how to get around the problems. The nice brew-related meatiness of HBD #3098 and #3099 were well appreciated. I've saved them to disk for future reference. One day I'll need the info. I thank the originators and contributors to HBD for the forum. Now I KNOW where to go with a question. Lastly, as a new resident of the Chattanooga area, I must recommend The Big River Restaurant and Brewery in downtown Chattanooga to any and all who travel this way. Great service, and a really excellent brown ale named 'Sweet Magnolia Brown Ale' (GABF gold medal winner). They also have a menu item called a "drunken ribeye" which is a steak marinated in their house Ironhouse Stout---absolutely out of this world good. Enough babbling for now, gotta go stare at my fermenter--bloop-bloop-bloop. Fermenting and happy, Jett Jerome Ooltewah, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:29:37 +1000 From: "Gribbles IT Operations" <mellis at gribbles.com.au> Subject: All Round Best RIMS/HERMS etc Request G'day Gang, Although I have scoured this group for 4 years and chased info all over the place , I still cannot make up my mind on building the best all round RIMS/HERMS system at home. One does this, another does that. Could someone point me towards plans, or people who have built one with really good functionality and is user friendly. I know, I know, how deep is half a hole etc, but I think you might know what I am getting at. Appreciate all opinions. Regards Mark Ellis Computer Services Assistant Gribbles Pathology (I.T) 14 Yarra Street. South Yarra. VIC. Australia. 3141 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:39:43 -0500 From: Brett Spivy <baspivy at softdisk.com> Subject: Your inquiry to HBD # 3073 Dr. Brown (I'll simply have to assume that you are in fact a doctor and this was not some maniacal attempt to misguide innocent HBD posters as to your decorating and or color coordination abilities), I was reading through some long-ago filed, but never actually read forums and providentially came across your plea for help in attaining 'that nutty character" in a nut brown ale. I could find no responses in a quick search of the archives. Did you receive any? Were they worth the electrons it took to display them on you monitor? If so, I would appreciate any help you can give me as this will be my next brew and the best recipie I could extrapalate from several I read looks NOTHING like what you posted on the 3rd of July. I am Cc: posting this letter to the HBD in the hopes that in addition to your reply I might solicit any and all other opinions, data points, scientific dissertations on beer nuts, and maybe even a recipie or two. What follows is a copy of Dr Brown's (if that is his/her name and title) original post: In a valiant effort to evince the nuances of what constitutes a "nutty" flavor in beer, I beseech those who have gone before me to elucidate on the aforementioned conundrum that I face. I've tried Caramunich II, Honey (malt), Special Roast, Toasted, and Victory malt as well as all the permutations of the above to no avail. Good Brown Ales were made, but sadly lacking in the "nutty" character I'm seeking. I tasted a wonderful Nut Brown Ale (of the Northern English variety) during the Spring Beer Festival (http://www.springbeerfest.com/) made by a gentleman named Greg (don't recall his last name) from Montana (or was it Wyoming?) and it was the grail. Well, maybe a grail shaped beacon ;^) At any rate, he was tight lipped about grain/hop bill and yeast, but said I was "...on the right track...", whatever that means. Any ideas, suggestions, opinions? Below is my most recent recipe (206th attempt) so far, and there's still another 514 permutations left! O.G 1.052 T.G. 1.013 Alc % 5.0 I.B.U. 24.7 S.R.M. 62.8 Ingredients for 5 gallon test batch: 5 lbs Pale Ale Malt 4 lbs Brown English Malt 4 oz Caramunich II Malt 4 oz Honey Malt 4 oz Special Roast 4 oz Victory Malt 0.5 oz Bullion 9.4% Boiled for 90 minutes 1 oz Kent-Goldings 5% Finishing hops at end of boil 1 tsp Calcium Chloride 1 tsp Irish Moss 16 oz Danstar Nottingham Dry yeast slurry Boil Time: 90 minutes Mashing Procedure: Mash Efficiency 75% with my system Add 3.125 gallons of water at 168 F to heat mash to 150 F Sparge with 4.25 gallons of water to yield 5.00 gallons to primary Ferment at 65'F for 3 days, transfer to carboy for one week, then condition for another 2~3 weeks. Share, and enjoy! Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR} Thanx . . . Brett A. Spivy Shreveport, LA Brewer (newbie), baker, never made a candlestick though I've often photographed them . . . Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:31:02 -0500 From: Brett Spivy <baspivy at softdisk.com> Subject: Continuous yeast feeding Bob P. posts, in part, in HBD #3098: I would think that maintaining a sterile, infection free supply of wort would be the greatest challenge: Is there a vessel which could be sterilized (along with the wort) in a pressure cooker, from which the wort could later be dispensed? Now this is a post that interests me, and frankly except for CAP posts, CACA posts, and a vast number of new brewer questions, not much else does. Couldn't you just use a sterile 1l IV drip bag? You could boil the wort, take an SG reading, can at that point sanitized (if not truly sterile). Then when you wanted to step-up a stater over a 20 hour period, alcohol swab the outside of the canning jar lid, open a sterile IV drip set, pouo into the once-sealable pouch, set the drip for its tightest setting, run the abreviated (maybe 2') drip tube past a groove in the side of a #6 drilled stopper with airlock, on top of an ongoing yeast starter in an erlemyer (sp?!?)? I'm not sure why you would want to do this, but it certainly seems doable. Brett A. Spivy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:07:56 +1000 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au> Subject: Eric Panthers Idea Of Brewing? I seem all too often to be making unpopular comments and just when I was in the process of formulating a "science versus tradition" post and thinking maybe I could make it a friendly sort of discussion, on to the scene bursts Mr Panther with an unbelievable array of suggestions for us to consider on brew day. Eric, I don't know from what height you dropped in from but you have got to be kidding! In case someone missed it, here is a bit of what Eric suggests > Ways to minimize HSA include: > - mash in at the highest temperature possible (ie. no protein rest!), to > reduce oxygen solubility in wort and accelerate denaturing of lipoxygenase > - use deaerated or preboiled water for all operations (store with lid on to > prevent O2 pickup) > - prefill mash/lauter/boiler with N2 or CO2 to minimize oxygen pickup during > mash-in and transfers > - avoid copper or iron brewing vessels or elements (to minimize the > formation of activated forms of oxygen) > - use an inert gas blanket on top of mash and wort > - ensure the clearest possible lauter runoff, to minimize wort unsaturated > fatty acid composition > > I would say that unless a homebrewer followed these procedures, one could no > t really claim to have climbed the Everest of the art. > > Any Sir Edmunds out there, or just a bunch of weekend bushwalkers? > > Eric Panther. Well Eric, I am proud to be a bushwalker!! You are nothing short of a maniac! You probably are not aware that at least one of our posters has lost more than his share of sleep over HSA and you have to come up with a post like this! Are you seriously going to tell us the above ideas and God knows what else you have read is actually incorporated into your brew day? Phil Yates (nearly a "science versus tradition" poster but this one has flattened me)! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:07:08 EDT From: Djhbrew at aol.com Subject: ADELSCOTT Receip My wife and I where in France (you know were the coneheads are from) and we both enjoyed a beer called ADELSCOTT. It is amber colored with low hop bitterness, low hop aroma, smoky malt sweetness with medium body. Overall a pleasant brew. I'm looking for recipe, information or input on recipe formulation. Here is the information from the label: ADELSCOTT Beer with peat smoked whisky malt Brewed by Fischer & Adrlhoffen BP48 67300 Schitigheim Cedex-France EMB 67447 Ingredients: Water, Malt, Maize, Whisky malt, Hops, Caramel, Sugar, Aromatic compounds and Ascorbic acid. 15.8 degree Plato, 6.6%V. By this list you can see why I have some questions, aromatic compounds, and caramel? Any and all responses would be appreciated. Privet e-mail or posted. Darryl Hickey (djhbrew at aol.com) Miami Area Society of Homebrewers. Brewing in the tropics at ten feet above sea level with bar stool correction! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:12:04 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: rejuvenating pH 'trodes AJ mentions >>but better still are special pH electrode cleaners incorporating proteolytic enzymes. All World Scientific in Lynwood, WA sells such a product for brewers.<< Nearer at hand (and cheaper too probably) is Adolph's meat tenderizer available in your local grocery store. I don't remember where I saw it recommended (BT article on pH I think) but a soak in papain and a distilled water rinse should clear off protein build up and be less damaging to the electrode than a NaOH soak. For you anglers, meat tenderizer is also effective for the occasional stingray or catfish "sting", breaking down the proteins that are causing the painfull reaction. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:31:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Backyard hops In HBD #3100, kevin F schramer <humulus at megsinet.net> in IL writes: >I just harvested 9 oz chinook hops off my backyard vine.... >anyone else have an early season like this? I usually don't >harvest for over a month. ...and Stew Cady <stewcady at msn.com> in MA asks: >as anyone else experienced, 1) an early harvest this year... Down here in East-central Illinois, my 3rd-year hops also shot up fast. I have a fair amount of Cascades that need to be harvested, while the Chinook are only a week or two behind. The weird thing is that while talking to MI brewers/growers at the Michigan Brewers Festival a week or so ago, they said they were just now getting little hop-baby burs. Southern Michigan weather isn't *that* much different from northern/central Illinois, is it? Oh, and after all the talk about japanese beetles, which I smugly ignored since I didn't have a problem with them, I looked up one of those on-line images and found out that the nifty-looking bugs on my rose bushes are... japanese beetles. I hope they like the roses better and stay the ! at #$%^& away from the hops. ;-) - -- Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Sticky-fingered (from hop harvesting, Fred & Eric) in east-central IL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:36:44 -0400 From: "Swintosky, Michael D." <Swintosk at timken.com> Subject: Honey; Also Wort Chillers Tommy and Joy wrote excellent responses to my post regarding honey and infant botulism. Rereading the post, I was definitely recklessness with what I presented. I should have included something along the lines that I was not trying to debunk the guidelines to not feed honey to infants less than 1 year old. I generally try to err on the side of safety in everything I do, but I clearly failed in this case. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Wort Chillers I've read quite a few posts about wort chillers but I don't recall seeing how one cleans the ID of newly purchased tubing to be sure there are no oils or other contamination left from the manufacturing process. Could someone elaborate on this? Mike Swintosky A much more humble beekeeper Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:47:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dr. Pervo" <skotrat at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Brian, Changes at the AHA Ed, I do value your words and your opinion as I do Gumps... But why should any of us believe that the AHA is "Changing"? That excuse or phrase has been used for a long time and nothing has ever changed. Why should this time be different? I am asking an honest question. -Scott Abene === ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net> http://skotrat.dynip.com/skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) "The More I know about beer politics, The more I wish I made 120k" _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:51:07 -0500 From: Jim Layton <a0456830 at rtxmail1.rsc.raytheon.com> Subject: Re: canning wort starters Thought I'd add just a bit to the excellent responses Matt Birchfield received on his questions about canning wort. If you purchase a new pressure canner it should come with decent instructions. If your canner has no instructions, I suggest buying a canning book from either Kerr or Ball (two big names in the US home canning market). Look for a plug for their home canning book on a package of their jars or lids and send for the book. These books are pretty cheap and contain easy, illustrated instructions for the jars, lids, and canner that make the whole procedure about as foolproof as can be. You can avoid the aggravation of failed seals and broken jars. They also have lots of recipes for homemade pickles and stuff, of course. Jim Layton Howe, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:22:58 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Charles T. Major" <ctmajor at samford.edu> Subject: Hop garden woes My first-year hops (1 Bullion and 1 Nugget) aren't doing so well as the harvest approaches. They started out well enough but have been doing poorly lately, especially the Bullion. The leaves are yellowing from the bottom up and developing some necrosis. I found a web page with pictures of hops suffering from deficiencies of the three major nutrients, and my hops seem to be suffering from a potassium deficiency. I've used fish emulsion thus far as a fertilizer, and I'd like to continue with organic fertilizers, if possible. Can anyone suggest a good organic source of potassium? Additionally, I have a scale infestation. Keeping in mind my desire to garden as organically as possible, does anyone have suggestions for combatting scale? Tidmarsh Major Birmingham, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:28:39 -0400 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: Whirlpooling All - AJ deLange's comments about whirlpooling got me thinking. I'm currently in the process of designing a homebuilt heat-exchange recirculating mash brew system, and was going to incorporate a whirlpooling feature in the brew kettle. I'd like some feedback from the HBD collective on whether or not you all think it might work... Here's how it would go. The brew kettle would have a 1/2" ball valve mounted in the lower side for a drain, with no internal piping (i.e.: just a hole on the inside). The outflow of cool wort will have the ability to be directed past a pump, and then up to the side of the kettle about 2/3 of the way up, where it will go through the keg wall and make a 90 degree right turn. With the pump on full throttle, the outflow through this elbow, I am hoping, will produce a whirlpool motion of the cooled wort (the constant *gentle* recirculation of the hot wort can also help speed cooling with the immersion chiller). Once a vigorous whirlpool of the cool wort has been established, the pump will be turned off and the trub allowed to settle in the middle like the big boys. Does this sound reasonable, or would the suction out of the bottom side drain prevent a true whirlpool from ever forming? Would a bottom *center* drain (via an elbow in from the side drain) be more efficient in producing a whirlpool? Any thoughts would be appreciated, as I only want to design and build this puppy once... Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:56:52 -0500 From: John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: science/art I don't like to get involved in internecine squabbles but I am moved to make a few comments about the science/no science debate. Pat Babcock probably said it better than I can but I do want to add my thoughts. First, I think there is a lot of misunderstanding between the opponents in the argument. This seems to be quite common in e-mail discussions. A lot seems to be lost in transmission. For one thing, I don't think most of the people alluded to as anti-science really are. To me what Dr. Pivo and others have been saying is that what we are doing is not science. Certainly there are scientific explanations of the processes but at a homebrew scale the practice is far from scientific. I enjoy reading explanations by A. J., Steve, and others of the science behind the effects we see but trying to define the process to a degree of accuracy not found in our data seems foolish. By that I mean, as homebrewers there are so many uncontrolled variables that many effects are, as Jack Schmidling would put it, "lost in the noise". Maybe I shouldn't assume everyone's brewing is variable as mine but I suspect most of it is. As Pat pointed out in the hose length debate, "In the pure sense, you're both dead on, but attacking a practical notion merely for the sake of scientific accuracy is not, in my opinion, value added." It can be interesting to know what the processes are and it is good to hear from experts in various fields who can explain the reactions. Practical brewing is often quite a different matter, however. For instance, I read and believed all the horror stories about HSA. However, on occasions when I have inadvertently grossly aerated hot wort I have not detected any bad effects in the product. I didn't do a double blind triangle test of brews which were exact duplicates except for the aeration, that being all but impossible, but if there were bad effects they were undectable by me. Therefore, I try to avoid splashing but, in my case, it is nothing to lose sleep over. I present this only as an example of the sort of thing I think homebrewers face. If the effects are undetectable or lost in the "noise" brought on by our variability of process then they are probably not worth worrying about. That doesn't mean they aren't there but may be relatively unimportant in our cases. In the meantime, keep the scientific explanations coming. They are interesting and make it easier to know what may be important and what is not. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
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