---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  hbd#3102 and dried yeast (Liz Blades)
  Septic tanks (Liz Blades)
  Imperial Stout (Ted McIrvine)
  Desperately Seeking Nessie (ThomasM923)
  Munich Schank Beer Recipe (Dennis Himmeroeder)
  Crop Report ("Jack Phillips")
  First All Grain Batch - Low Mash Efficiency ("Carl Wilson")
  Otter Creek Copper Ale (darrell.leavitt)
  SPAM from Great Lakes Brewing (Pat Babcock)
  Chickens, corks ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  No-float empties ("Charles Rich")
  RE: septic tanks (John_E_Schnupp)
  RE:Hops Storage ("John Lifer, jr")
  Re: To pump or not to pump (RobertJ)
  "grassy" taste ("glyn crossno")
  Ed Busch and The AHA ("Poirier, Bob")
  Re:  Mail Order Beer ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  re:Nitex (R) meshes (RCAYOT)
  Nice work Ken, and some comments... (CMClancy)
  The George Report ("George De Piro")
  measuring fermentation by weight (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  I'd rather phyte than switch (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Hop growing as therapy (MrMike656)
  CO2 measurement ("BERNER,ROBERT A.")
  re:  Wort chilling ("Jack Schmidling")
  hop suppliers (Clark)
  Competition Announcement - Call for Entries (bernardch)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 7 Aug 99 20:57:38 BST
From: blades at airtime.co.uk (Liz Blades)
Subject: hbd#3102 and dried yeast


Glyn Crossno wrote 

"Subject: Dry Yeast

 split (as usual) a recent soy CAP.  5 gallons in glass used EDME, 3.5
gallons in plastic EDME, and 3.5 gallons in plastic windsor.  Both of
the EDME had a foam cap 9 hours after pitching.  Windsor no foam at 18
hours." 

<Lots snipped>

Please be aware that since the sale of the malting/homebrew arm of Edme 
earlier this year to Novartis(Swiss Miss,Geordie) that the production of 
yeast under the Edme label has ceased.

Cheers



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Date: Sat, 7 Aug 99 22:49:41 BST
From: blades at airtime.co.uk (Liz Blades)
Subject: Septic tanks


You wrote
"Hi all,

I'm getting settled into my new house.  Boxes boxes everywhere!  
Never owned a house before, so this should be fun.

The really fun part is that I actually get to setup my brewery all 
over again, only this time I can re-arrange water lines and such 
like.

I am on a septic system now though and I was wondering if anyone else 
out there had a septic tank. "

This house has had one since 1936 when the house was built,it(the 
tank)resembles a swimming pool all white tiled with various filters along 
the line the theory being that you can drink the water at  the end of the 
process,I've never been brave enough to do this though.

Oh incidentally the tank is hidden underneath the front garden(or what you 
would call yard)

> If so, I'd be interested in any feed 
>back people might have on the impact of various brewery chemicals 
>(chlorinated TSP, Ecolox, PBW, and Iodophor to name a few I use) on 
?the system.  The tank was pumped out a year ago, and is quite modern.

I'm told that you should not flush it with any of the halogen family(not 
sure how the modern ones work,but the old one I have does not like them).

>The second problem is a little more serious.  Clever lad that I am I 
decided to setup shop in the garage.  This wouldn't be a problem 
except that the septic outflow runs across the garage ceiling....I 
would like to setup a sink in the garage, but any waste water is 
going to need to be pumped up hill if it is to go into the septic 
system.<

Install a non-return valve?

Cheers

Elizabeth who is enjoying a Worthington's White Shield thousands of miles 
from any of you in the NW of the UK.







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Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 23:53:17 -0700
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Imperial Stout

Pete Czerpak  <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> asked about recipes for Barley
Wines and Imperial Stouts at the end of HBD 3104.

The following is an imperial stout recipe Russ Levitt of Upland Brewing
gave me for five gallons of homebrew:

12 lbs Pale Malt
1 lb Roast Barley
1 lb. Crystal
1/4 lb. Chocolate malt
1/4 lb. Black Patent
4-6 oz of bittering hops of your choice (I used 4 oz of Chinook)
2 oz of finishing hops of your choice (I used East Kent Goldings)

OG 84-90
FG 28-32

Russ used London yeast on his, I used the W-Yeast Scotch Ale strain
(which I liked) and on a subsequent batch the Bell's yeast (which was
too attenuative.)

I actually like this one better if one cuts the chocolate and patent
down to 2 oz and use one pound of flaked barley instead.  Personally I
don't care for chocolate and patent tastes that are strong in stout.

- -- 
Dr. Ted McIrvine     McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com
College of Staten Island/CUNY
http://www.csi.cuny.edu/academia/programs/mus.html


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Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 01:54:59 EDT
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Desperately Seeking Nessie

I've become rather fond of an Austrian beer called MacQueen's (yes, I said 
Austrian) Nessie Original Red Ale, brewed by the Eggenberg Brewery. It seems 
to be more of an altbier than anything remotely like a Scottish ale. It is 
fairly strong (alc. 7.3% vol.), fairly light colored and well balanced in 
malt and hops. On the label it says: "Gerbraut Aus Whiskymalz". I gather that 
that means it is brewed with some whiskey malt in the grain bill. I notice a 
somewhat whiskey-like quality in the overall taste, but I can't put my finger 
on what it is that says "whiskey". There is no outstanding peaty smokiness in 
the flavor profile, but it may be lurking in the background somewhere. Oh 
well, guess I'll have to do some more beer tasting research.
Anyway, I would like to develop a recipe that will approximate this delicious 
beer, once I finish building my new brewing setup (it's been almost a year 
since I've brewed).  Here are my questions:

Is the peat smoked malt that is available through home brewing channels the 
same malt that is used by whiskey producers?
If not, then I would like to know if whiskey malt is available to 
homebrewers. Any mail order suppliers around? Also, does anyone know of a 
supplier of the Hugh Baird lightly smoked peat malt mentioned by Ted McIrvine 
in HBD #3103?

A tip of the propeller cap in advance,

Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ

"Are we not men? We are Pivo!"


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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 13:50:11 -0400
From: Dennis Himmeroeder <dennish at palmnet.net>
Subject: Munich Schank Beer Recipe

I was wondering if anyone had a recipe for imitating the Munich Schank
Beers that are served in the Beer garden in Munich.
Also if anyone has ever used brewing yeast to bake bread with.  And it's
results.
Thanks 
Dennis H.


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Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:15:46 -0700
From: "Jack Phillips" <jackat at 2xtreme.net>
Subject: Crop Report

Hello Collective,

    Well as it appears that there are those that want to know, so here it
is...Here in the sunny Sierra Foothills ( approximately 12 miles east of
Placerville, Ca.and slightly farther than that from C. Burns) where the
current temperature (as of 2:00pm) is 76 degrees F.which is well below
normal for this time of year, I have just finished putting up my dried
Northern Brewer hops which are about a month early. This is the third year
for this particular planting and they put up 7 bines which were
approximately #2 pencil sized as they emerged from the ground in early
April. By late May they had reached the 12 foot level and proceeded to grow
downward till they were almost to the ground( I say almost as they decided
to use the garden fence as a growing lattice). I harvested a full 6.5 gallon
bucket ( amazing how handy those old plastic fermenters can be). I didn't
weigh them in their just picked staged, but the dried weight is 1.8 pounds -
These were well formed hop cones and have a very clean and decidedly
Northern Brewer aroma. There is no easy way for a homebrewer/hop grower to
determine the actual AA's for a given hop, however after brewing a batch or
two of my stock pale ale I should be able to quantify the amount needed to
achieve the results I want (This means keeping good records from previous
brews for this brew) -- I''m sorry Steve - no exact science here (:->), just
my own sense of taste.

                                    Prosit
                                    Jack P.
Tmberline Brewing
Placerville, CA. 2.5K miles west of Jeff R.
Beer is Good, Life is good, Life with beer is better -- Homer S.




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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 13:30:50 -0500
From: "Carl Wilson" <carlw at sonetcom.com>
Subject: First All Grain Batch - Low Mash Efficiency

Well, my first all grain batch is in the carboy and is fermenting like
mad.  I may even have to use a blow off tube for the first time.  But
for some reason my mash efficiency was only about 60%.

The total grain bill consisted of the following:

#8 British Pale Ale Malt
8 oz. Crystal Malt (60L)
6 oz. Scottish Crystal Malt (90L)
4 0z. Belgian Special - B Malt

Strike water:
10.5 qt.  at  132 F
Mash held at 120 F for 30 minutes (Adjusted mash pH to about 5.5 - 5.2
with lactic acid solution)
Raised temperature to 154 F and held for 45 minutes.

Sparged with 168 F water to 7 gallons (Adjusted sparge water pH to about
5.5 - 5.3 with lactic acid)

Sparge time:  Slightly over 2 hours.  (Didn't want to do it too fast and
ended up doing it too slow!)

Anyone have any ideas why my mash efficiency was so low?

Carl


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Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 09:15:25 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Otter Creek Copper Ale

I got lucky with an attempt at Otter Creek's Copper Ale...several people tried
it and thought that it was real close ...all grain, alt.  If anyone wants the
recipe I will be glad to send.  It made a real hit.
 ..Darrell
<Plattsburgh, NY>....real far from Jeff.


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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:13:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: SPAM from Great Lakes Brewing

Greetings, Beerlings! Douse me in your lager....

How many received an e-mail from Great Lakes Brewing Company regarding
their "Cleveland Brown Ale"? And how many of those that received it are
listed in Zymurgy as the contact of a brew club?

I tried to take this issue up with GLBC via private e-mail - using the
reply-to address on the note they sent - but not only did Great Lakes
Brewing resort to harvesting club names from Zymurgy in order to advertise
their products, they apparently used the same cowardly tactic of hiding
behind a false address. I received an error message back from the domain
in the address for my trouble. Either that, or they're already getting
e-mail bombed.

Am I over-reacting in being FURIOUS that they would use my e-mail address
listed in Zymurgy as a club contact for sheer advertising? There was no
"intrinsic value" to the material in the mailing, unless you were
personally holding your breath for their seasonal. Since it was
unsolicited and was not information specific to home brewing or the clubs
or even some "special offer" - isn't this just plain old SPAM? This
message must be made plain to them: club e-mail addresses are not
published in Zymurgy for use in "targeted advertising". Besides: SPAM and
SPAM tactics - no matter the source or the product - are inexcusable.

I'll personally not patronize Great Lakes Brewing any further nor buy any
of their products due to this incident. That's what their advertising
has earned for them from me. 

-
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."




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Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:36:15 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: Chickens, corks

Dave said...>>They awarded him not only the 


No Bell prize but also the Pullet Surprise. "<<

Har...That's what we need here, a lighter view on life!
And I say "juck'em if they can't take a foke."
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Am I right, or are these indeed special corks? Has anybody successfuly
packaged beer in this way? Where'd you get the corks, wires, & caps?

Yes they started out straight, they are available, but I need to order
1000.
The wires are readily available. If I happened to get enough email 
requests
I would get the "beer corks". They are special in that they are
agglomerated,
the normal cork is ground up and then glued and reformed into a cylinder,

this breaks up the normal veins in a cork that would let the gas seep
through.
You need a strong corker to insert them though. 


Thanks,
               Del,   delbrew at compuserve.com
                  recovering from the TRASH picnic
                       Only reported casualties: 39lbs smoked brisket
                                                                      80
burgers
                                                                      60
chicken breasts
                                                                      75
hot dogs
                                                                      18
kegs of beers

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Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:01:30 -0700
From: "Charles Rich" <riches at halcyon.com>
Subject: No-float empties

Christopher Farley asked how to keep empty jar from floating inside the
pressure cooker when canning sterile empties.

A pressure cooker requires only a little water in the bottom to do its job.
 I use only about 1/2" and after a 40-minute p-cook ther's still about 1/4"
remaining.  There's no need to fill it.  I highly recommend a small rack in
the bottom just to hold your inner vessel or jars from direct contact with
it.  My p-cooker included two aluminum risers about a 1/2" high for this
but a trivet or small rack would accomplish the same.

When I prepare petri dishes I keep them well aloft of the water, on top of 
the second riser on top of some jars.  The steam environment is sufficient
for all the pressure cooker's work.

- -------------------------------

Note that if you p-cook some decoct fractions for use ahead of time, it'd
be a good idea to compensate for that fraction's enzymes which you've
removed from mash pool's.   That is, if you remove a couple of pounds of
mash for pre-processing you might wish to compensate for it with some extra
malt in the mash since those enzymes will be denatured by the p-cooking,
and the sacch. rests for a stiff fraction are sub-optimal.  This is most
important for those grainbills which are cut close to their max diastactic
potential.  Decoctions are inherantly efficient, and as a soft water brewer
I feel they are even required sometimes for only this reason, but still,
keep an eye toward what you've removed early!

Cheers,
Charles Rich ( Bothell, USA)




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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 00:07:45 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: RE: septic tanks

So here's a bunch of "john's" talking about septic systems,
kinda appropriate don't ya' think.

>John (nice name) Robinson asked about running water from a sink to the ground
>rather than to the septic system.

John Wilkinson says
>I run my water from the sink through a pipe to the ground
>without pit, gravel, or anything else.  The only concern is keeping from
>making a muddy mess.
<snip>
>Again, the only
>problem I can see is dispersing the water without making a mess.  It shouldn't
>be too hard with no more than will be going down a sink, though.

Excessive water thru a septic system is NOT a good idea for a couple of reasons.
First the soils can be come overloaded and the leach field will not be able to
properly percolate the water.  Second large amounts of water flowing thru the
septic tank can result in solid matter being flushed into the leach area.  This
happens because solid material entering the tank does not have sufficient time
to settle to the bottom if the flow thru the tank is too fast.  These solids
can plug the gravel in the leach area and/or the hole in the pipes.

The "gray water" disposal is an option, however it is not legal in all states.

If you can avoid sending the water (especially cooling water) to the septic
system I'd do it.  I run my cooling water to the yard thru a garden hose.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Brewery
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 05:50:41 -0500
From: "John Lifer, jr" <jliferjr at misnet.com>
Subject: RE:Hops Storage

Mark asked about storage/picking of Hops.
I'm hear to tell you that you must dry them, and dry them enough not to
go to mush and stink in the freezer.  No, you can't freeze them in
water.  If you live in a dry climate, dry in sun, if like me in south,
get a dehydrator or use oven, and dry until slightly 'crisp or
crunchy'.  I then mash into freezer bag or glass jar and freeze.  I
usually pick when a few start to yellow on tips of leaves.  Not brown,
that is supposed to be too late.
Most of what I've used are very low AA, use for aroma only.
John

- --
Cornelius Ball Lock Kegs for Sale
See Web page for details.
http://www2.misnet.com/~jliferjr




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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 07:50:38 -0400
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re: To pump or not to pump

>From: "Scott Church" wrote

>Hi all,
>I was wondering about the use of a pump for drawing off the wort from the
>mash Tun. I know that many people use pumps (i.e. RIMS), but I have "read"
>that they may cause a stuck mash do to the suction that they create.  Any
>comments or opinions on the matter would be welcome!

Using a pump to move the wort, from mash tun to boiler, will work fine
provided; the pump is not too powerful, the false bottom is strong enough
and /or manifold is open enough, the grain crush is not too fine and you
can regulate the output.

If your vessels are on the same level the first 50% of the wort can be
moved via gravity and the pump used to bring the remainder over
Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com


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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 07:58:20 -0500
From: "glyn crossno" <crossno at tnns.net>
Subject: "grassy" taste

Having grown hops for 5 years now I'll throw some thoughts into the
kettle.

The only time I have gotten a grassy taste from my hops were when I
picked them early.  I still use hops straight from the vine if it is
convenient.  I  also got the grassy flavor from British hops one time.

On other things hoppy, I always get at least two pickings of hops.  That
is one advantage of growing your own, you can pick them when they are
ready.

I was lazy this year and did not get around to trimming one hill back to
the normal 3 or 4 bines to start the growing season.  This hill is now
about two feet wide and four feet long and my wife has beaten it back
with the lawn mower.  It has hardly produced any hops this year.  My
other hills productions are down but still significant.  Another factor
in all this is I have not watered like I did in years past.

Glyn Crossno
Estill Springs,  TN
- --
Have you hugged your bines today?




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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:13:26 -0500 
From: "Poirier, Bob" <Bob_Poirier at adc.com>
Subject: Ed Busch and The AHA

Greetings!!

Back in HBD #3100, Ed Busch, Chairman of the AHA Board of Advisors, tells us 
that things they are a-changin' at the old AHA!  Hmmmmm...  Deja vous (sp??) 
is kicking in...  Haven't we heard this before??  But that's not the point of 
my post.  Ed raves about the success of the recent AHA conference, which was 
setup and run by local homebrew club members and other volunteers.  He goes on 
to say that the AHA is looking for more of the same:  Member-run conferences 
and other events.  Gee, if the members are the ones doing all the work, what 
role does the AHA actually play??  Hmmmmmmm...

Just my $0.02...

Bob P.
East Haven, CT





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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:16:26 -0600
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <matthew-saunders at uswest.net>
Subject: Re:  Mail Order Beer

JMA writes:

>I seem to find myself in a bit of a predicament. I was recently involved in
>an accident and am restricted to the house. Worse yet, I am out of beer and
>my wife refuses to purchase any for me. I was hoping that someone out there
>could provide me with web addresses for ordering beer through the mail from
>micro breweries. I have found several "Beer of the Month Clubs", but would
>prefer to order as I need it rather than subscribe to a program. Any help
>would be appreciated.

Go to www.vintagecellar.com

Great selection.  Good prices.

Cheers!
Matthew in CO.


"We have to work in the theatre of our own time,
with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones




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Date: 09 Aug 1999 08:36:54 -0400
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: re:Nitex (R) meshes

     MICHAEL MACEYKA writes:
     "I have found specs for nylon mesh, which would indicate its 
     suitability, but what of "100% polyamide nylon" as this product 
     describes itself?  Did I fall asleep during organic chemistry when 
     they said nylon is a polymer of amide-linked units?  Amide linkages 
     would seem to be acid unstable, but nylon is supposed to take things 
     pretty well.  Any one have any ideas about the suitability of this 
     stuff in boiling wort, mashing, dry hopping?"
     
     Mike, you didn't fall asleep!  Calling something 100% polyamide nylon 
     is a chemical oxymoron, and very non-descriptive.  The material may or 
     may not be suitable for brewing purposes, because there are several 
     polyamides that are not suitable, for instance proteins are 
     polyamides, etc.  The "nylon" part may be refering to aliphatic 
     polyamides, nylon 6, nylon 6,6 nylon 12, 6,12 and many others.  Now to 
     the other question, nylon (meaning aliphatic nylon 6, or especially 
     nylon 6,6) is very stable to agressive chemicals because it is fairly 
     crystalline.  The polymer chains are packed away in tight crystals and 
     not available for chemical attack.  Which is why, for instance 
     polyethylene, and polypropylene are also widely used in harsh chemical 
     environments.  The only problem with nylon is that it would not be 
     very resistent to many sanitizers especially chlorine, however, nylon 
     mesh bags are sold and used for dry hop bags, mash filtering etc and 
     can be boiled (at least a few times) for sterilization.
     
     Roger Ayotte  
     
     



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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:05:12 EDT
From: CMClancy at aol.com
Subject: Nice work Ken, and some comments...

Ken Schwartz has made a lot of great contributions to the on-line world of 
brewing and I would like to thank him for that.  I decided to go all-grain 
after reading some of the info on Ken's web page.   Having said that, I am 
glad to see that he is continuing to do good work with his recent 
investigations into no-sparge/batch-sparge techniques.  It does appear that 
there are a lot of variables involved with accurately predicting the 
resulting gravity for these brewing methods and hopefully with enough data 
points, it will be easier to nail down.  I may try such a method on my next 
batch.  However, in lieu of a reliable, reproducible method, it seems to me 
that one could use what Ken has proposed as a means of getting the gravity in 
the right ballpark.  Then, after collecting all of the runnings and taking 
gravity readings, just do a couple of calculations to determine how much 
DME/LME or water is needed to get to the target SG.  In fact, this 
calculation would probably be a good one to enter into Ken's spreadsheet.  
One would just enter the volume of collected runnings, the measured SG and 
the desired volume and the make-up amounts would be computed automatically.  
This amount would likely be small enough that they wouldn't affect the 
character of the recipe.  With such an approach, the advantages 
(time/effort/maltiness) of no-sparge/batch-sparge can be realized without 
having to worry much about hitting the target gravity.  

Another added benefit is that such a technique could also be used by those 
who would be pushing the volume limits of their mash/lauter tuns with a batch 
sparge.  In effect, this would be a twist on a partial-mash technique.

Chad Clancy
Mechanicsburg, PA


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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 99 09:58:22 PDT
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: The George Report

Hi all!

It's been a while since I've had a chance
to look at the HBD, which makes me sad.  Perhaps
we can get internet access at the brewpub soon
(hint hint).  Has the Clinitest thing been settled yet?

For those of you new to the HBD, I was a very frequent
contributor to these pages over the past few years.  I have
recently become the head brewer at the CH Evans Brewing
Company at the Albany (NY) Pump Station (say that
three times fast).

We have been open for 9 weeks now, and I can say
that I am having quite a bit of fun.  The hours are long, and
keeping up with demand has been challenging.

I have settled into a groove with 6 beers on draft, and I serve
cask-conditioned beers Thursday-Saturday (I go through one firkin
per night most weekends).  I am extremely pleased with the maturity
of the Albany beer drinkers; while the blonde ale is 30% of beer sales,
70% of the beer sales are the other brews!  The ESB and Hefeweizen
are doing quite well.  A Belgian pale ale I brewed as a yeast propagation
batch for a tripel sold so quickly that I'll have to brew it again!  Life
is tough...

Brewing on a 10 bbl system really isn't much different from my 1/2 bbl
home system, except that there are greater opportunities for making
messes on a larger scale.  The hardest part of my transition from hobby
brewer to pro has been juggling the brewing schedule in such a way that
I don't leave a tap empty for more than a quiet afternoon.  It is 
challenging
to arrange the schedule so that new beers are ready to drink as the old
ones kick, and then brew the next beer that you think will kick
right into the tank again.  Invariably, something happens to hinder
the smooth transition:  a beer isn't quite ready yet, or two different
beers are about to kick at the same time and you only have one
fermentor free, or you once again can't get Weyermann wheat malt
from Crosby and Baker, etc.

I guess the fact that I use many different yeasts doesn't make
life any more simple (the 6 beers on tap now represent 4 different
yeasts).  I believe that different beer styles require certain yeast
strains, and as long as I can do it, I will try to make beer with the 
yeast
best suited to the job.

If any of you are ever in the Albany, NY area stop by and say "hello."
I am there almost all of the time.

Have fun!

George de Piro

Head Brewer, CH Evans Brewing Co.

Malted Barley Appreciation Society
"Brooklyn's Best Homebrew Club"
http://hbd.org/mbas


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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:17:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: measuring fermentation by weight

Don't forget to take into account the losses due to  evaporative drying!

Alan Meeker

Quantum Brewery
(further dissecting the brewing process)



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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:43:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: I'd rather phyte than switch

Here's another (BRIEF!) volley in the phytin game-

AJ, we've gotten in pretty deep, you're probably the only one reading this
post!

Put briefly, Todd Carlson pointed out to me that the pKa's on ADP are about 2
and 7 so it was the oxygen with the HIGH pKa (about 12.5) not the low one that
is involved in the ester bond. (yes, yes, I know resonance and all that but
giving the oxygens discrete pKa's is an easy way to think about it and after
all they do behave this way in titration.) This now makes sense to me because
in the synthesis of ADP or ATP it is probably an oxygen on the terminal
phosphate group that will be attacking the phorphorus of Pi and the -OH will
be a good leaving group because it can pick up a proton to form water. But I
digress ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGG I said this would be brief.

What's the point? That a similar situation probably exists in phytic acid -
the two singly bound oxygens will have pKa's about 2 and 7 therefore, upon
hydrolysis you regenerate free phosphoric acid/phosphate and the oxygen
liberated which previously formed the ester bond will have a pKa of around
12.5 and will definitely pick up a proton from solution. This means that BOTH
the OH(-) AND the H(+) will be consumed during hydrolysis  - thus NO NET
CAHNGE IN pH!! 

********* NOTE: BREWING RELEVANT MATERIAL ***************

So, I'm right back to where I started from - that it is not the release
of phosphate during the mash itself that lowers the mash pH but the subsequent
complexation/precipitation of this phosphate with divalent cations (most
likely calcium) that drives the lowering of the mash pH.

 -Alan Meeker





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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:44:14 EDT
From: MrMike656 at aol.com
Subject: Hop growing as therapy

Fellow hop farmers - 
     As the number of posts on hop growing/harvesting/drying enters its 
seasonal increase, I thought I'd share this little piece from a recent issue 
of 'Senior Living Design'. 
     "In New Norfolk, Tasmania, the annual cycle of hop growth and harvest 
was part of everyday life. Trying to find the perfect village-like 
envrionment to stir residents' memories, Robert Morris-Nunn tranported 
elements of traditional hop farms to Corumbene. An original hop pickers' hut 
sits in a courtyard; its restored interiors include a working fireplace. 
There's also a "dunny" (outhouse) and a new rainwater tank to collect runoff 
from the hop pickers' hut. Residents can fill buckets from the tank's tap 
just as they used to. Critics who questioned the real wood fires have been 
silenced: No residents have been injured, though the men stoke the fires and 
everyone warms their "bums."

   There are pictures of the hut and interior.  

   The text is from an article entitled "New Ideas in Dementia Care."

Uh.......


Mike Maimone


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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:52:08 -0400
From: "BERNER,ROBERT A." <BERNERRA at apci.com>
Subject: CO2 measurement

Greetings, 
 

Snip >
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 08:19:08 -0400
From: "Russell, D. A. (David)" <drussel3 at ford.com>
Subject: Brewing on a scale?

> During the fermentation, the
> specific gravity is dropping, mass is floating out of the carboy as
> CO2, could we monitor the fermentation by placing the carboy on a
> scale?

I would think the accuracy of a scale to accomplish this would be quite
cost prohibitive for the homebrewer, if it would work at all.  A better
idea would probably to capture the volume of CO2 that is created. 
Simple method, inverted in water graduated container...
< Snip

	I had a kind of similar idea about doing some measurements where I
work and mentioned them to my boss. After he stopped laughing, he said that
it was similar to weighing the steering wheel of a car by weighing the car
then removing the steering wheel and re-weighing the car and determine the
weight of the steering wheel by difference. The percentage of the mass lost
due to the off-gassing of CO2 is so slight as to not be measurable using a
scale with a capacity of 60 or 70 lbs required to weigh fermenting wort.

	 I also thought it would be neat to measure the amount of CO2
produced during fermentation, and also timing when fermentation started and
stopped by watching the flow of CO2. A quick "back of the envelope"
calculation yielded a couple of  hundred liters of CO2 from a 5 gallon
batch. I borrowed a piece of equipment from work, it is similar to a gas
meter, and connected it to my fermentation lock. I had good results
initially, over the first 2 or 3 days, but then the flow rate diminished
enough to prevent the meter from working properly. If memory serves, I
measured about 300 liters of CO2 while the meter was working. My point here
is that inverting a graduated cylinder in a water bath is not going to be
sufficient for measuring the amount of CO2 produced from fermenting wort.
What would work is a mass flow sensor, however we did not have any with the
required sensitivity for this experiment. If anyone is interested in playing
around with these ideas feel free to email me. The brewing season is about
to start.  Private responses are okay. 


Bob Berner in Allentown PA

Who is Jeff Renner anyway?

Your body is a temple, a temple of Bacchus.










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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:42:41 -0500
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: re:  Wort chilling

 "Stan Prevost" <sprevost at ro.com>


>In HBD #3104, Lou Heavner proposes using a stir plate during wort chilling
to get some movement around the coils of his immersion chiller to speed up
the cooling process.

>I think it would be easier and more effective to recirculate the wort using
a pump (assuming you already have one for some reason).  Connect the pump to the
kettle drain......,

>A screen on the drain to filter out hops etc. is required.

Sounds to me like you just engineered a new problem.... "stuck wort".

If you keep the wort churning during the cool down, no screen in the world will
remain clear.  Don't confuse the filter bed of a mash tun with the minimal
filtering provided by hops.

The only way a screen works with hops is if it is allowed to settle for 30 mins
or so.  You might as well use that 30 mins for cooling.  To cool it a bit faster
and then wait for it to settle does not buy anything.

js

PHOTO OF THE WEEK  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
HOME  http://user.mc.net/arf



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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:10:14 -0400
From: Clark <clark at capital.net>
Subject: hop suppliers

Hi list,

There has been some discussion of hops and hop suppliers lately.  Glen
Tinseths hop page which can be found at http://realbeer.com/hops/ lists
four online hop catalogs.  Go to a company called Just Hops they list 18
domestic and 26 imported varieties available by the ounce or pound.  I have
never ordered from them and have no affiliation et cetera.

My belated thanks to all who responded to my request for help with a cherry
beer.  I will be bottling my cherry raspberry ale this week.  Tasted an
apricot ale this weekend.  Looks like this may be my next project if my
wife doesn't talk me into another IPA that she absolutely loves.  

Dave Clark
Eagle Bridge,  NY


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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:10:17 -0500
From: bernardch at mindspring.com
Subject: Competition Announcement - Call for Entries

The Music City Brewers, the AHA registered homebrew club in Nashville,
Tennessee is proud to announce the:

4th ANNUAL MUSIC CITY BREW-OFF, an AHA sanctioned competition, to be held
Saturday, September 25, 1999 at Boscos Nasvhille Brewing Company, Nashville
Tennesee.

Besides Saturday's competition, we have a great weekend schedule of events
planned, including a Friday evening welcome reception, a Saturday evening
pub crawl with FREE transportation provided, and a Sunday morning brunch for
all participants.  This year our featured guest is Homebrew Digest regular
contributor, Rob Moline.

Entries are accepted between September 1st and September 18th.  Full details
are on the Music City Brewers Webpage.  Click on the "Brew-Off" link at
http://www.theporch.com/~homebrew

If you would like a comeptition information/registration packet mailed to
you, send an email with your name and address to MusicCityBrewers at yahoo.com

Interested in coming to Nashville to Judge or Steward?  Send an email to
Steve Johnson at stephen.johnson at vanderbilt.edu


Chuck Bernard        Bernardch at mindspring.com
Music City Brewers



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