---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Is it Malty, or is it Oxydized? AND Fault Line Brew Pub (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Dry Yeast... ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Pumps ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re Pumping - I did - now I don't (RobertJ)
  The Zone Beer Diet (Martin A. Gulaian)
  Making beer / wasting water (Kevin or Darla Elsken)
  DWI (Dave Burley)
  Wringing Water/ol' Bottlecaps (Nancy George)
  Overnight acid rests? (Teutonic Brewer)
  Colorful sugar Test, Zone Diet, (Dave Burley)
  Great immersion chiller improvement idea ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Water Re-cycling (Steve Lacey)
  Re: Scotch Ales (Rod Prather)
  Brave New Brewery - question  #1 ("Stephen Alexander")
  Cylindro conical fermenters ("Richard Hooper")
  1/4 keg for kettle? (darrell.leavitt)
  Steve's On To Something ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  Making yeast starters in microwave ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Sight Glass for Gott ("Mark Vernon")
  A question or two for the "long-time" brewers (larry land)
  WET T-SHIRT CONTEST IN MY BASEMENT (Matthew Comstock)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:55:56 -0700
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is it Malty, or is it Oxydized? AND Fault Line Brew Pub

"Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> impugns various peninsula
brewpubs.  Here's what I know:

Gordon Biersch started in Palo Alto and now has brewpubs in San Jose, San
Francisco, and others farther away (Hawaii, Pasadena?).  They also have a ~2
year old large micro in San Jose which I believe supplies all their tap
accounts and certainly all their bottling.

I used to find them first rate for German styles, but less so these days:
the micro beers are blander and the PA brewpub has trouble with diacetyl and
according to a very recent report from a friend, 2,3 pentanedione.  You most
likely had the dunkel based on your description.

Faultline is IMO the best brewpub on the peninsula although I am certainly
not friends with the brewer (and am friends with another brewer--hope he
doesn't read this!  His is the second best!  Really!).  I like them because
they usually have a large variety (>7); their hefeweizen uses the real
yeast, it's not just a cloudy wheat beer; they almost always have a credible
Belgian style attempt; and they cycle their way through most beer styles
(like most places they have a few regular beers and a few that change). 
Sometimes they miss the mark style-wise but usually they are pretty good.  I
have only ever had one beer with a significant technical problem there and
that was when the place was just getting going. I have had their Alt once
about 9 months ago IIRC and I thought it was excellent--malty, very bitter,
and a very nice, fairly strong hop flavor much like my FWH alt (OK, Al,
there's your queue).  Faultline also has a place in Walnut Creek.

As for your flavor problems, I can't imagine you got an oxidized beer from
either place unless the GB was in a bottle.  I would also guess that your
beer that sat in the fermenter for 8 months would suffer more from autolysis
than oxidation unless you had a lot of HSA or the airlock dried out,
although who knows?  Try an old imported dunkel to see how these taste
oxidized. Both of these commercial beers are supposed to be farily malty
with a Munich malt character.  What kind of beer sat in your fermenter for 8
months?
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www.stanford.edu/~jeremybb


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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 02:41:37 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: Dry Yeast...

			Dry Yeast
     Dave Lamotte, the Newcastle Brewer, asks about yeast....and his
questions are being reviewed by greater minds than mine, though Roger Ayotte
offers what sounds like sage advice on the subject. I'll let you know if I
hear differently, though  suspect that what I might hear will be building on
Roger's assertions.
	Yeast, like momilies, can't live forever...

>From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
>Did I hear(read) Rob say that its preferable to store dry yeast frozen?
>Freezing won't kill it?  I assume it's not a good idea to put frozen yeast
>into 105f. water to rehydrate.  Any idea what an acceptable warming rate
is?

     As a matter of fact, a gentleman by the name of Admiral Byrd took some
Fleischman's yeast with him on his Antarctic journeys. It seems like folks
on every continent do live by bread, though perhaps, not bread alone. Some
 ....(drum roll please)......50 years later...a camp of his was 'discovered',
and certain articles and properties were recovered.....
     Dr. George Clayton Cone, who had for decades worked for
Fleischman's....successfully revived, and utilized yeast from that 50 year
'lag-time.'
     Yes, freeze it, if you wish. What I read into your post is the question
of 'thermal shock,' as it usually relates to dropping the temp on an active
ferment. This relates to dropping the temp on a lager ferment in stages,
since any drop of temp on an ale ferment is usually a 'crash' drop to spur
flocc, or to arrest attenuation..... or a 'maintenance-control' incremental
correction to counteract heat generated by fermentation.
     By all means, rehydrate  at  105 ..you will be perfectly in the desired
range for rehydration. Attemperation, post rehydration, is the first step of
acclimation of the newly rehydrated yeast to both temp, and sugar content of
wort.  And step dropping lagers to acclimate them to reduced temps is
another method of negating 'temp-shock.'
     Post re-hydration is where one should be conscious of the 'shock.'
     But it has no bearing on the fact that dry yeast is quite hardy, whilst
dry, and stored properly. The Admiral's yeast is definitive on this
question...no?
     Agian, if I hear differently on this topic, I shall report on my
learning curve.

Cheers!
Rob Moline
Lallemand
jethro at isunet.net
brewer at isunet.net







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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:42:26 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pumps

Kirk writes ...
>...but I certainly wouldn't expect turbulent flow using a peristaltic pump,

You should.   Turbulent flow in a tube is a Reynolds Number RN >2200 where
RN = rho * vbar * Diam / nu  For 20P maltose solution at 20C, 1/4"ID,
1gal/min the RN is about 5500.  The RN will be even higher at higher temps
(lower viscosity).  The RN will be proportional to the flow rate.  For a
given flow rate, increasing the tubing diameter causes a proportional
decrease in RN.

Unless you are willing to live with less than about 0.4 gal/min  at 1/4"ID, or
find a peristaltic pump to handle >1/2" ID tubing, you will have turbulent
flow.

>It certainly LOOKS laminar based on visual
>observation of small particles at or near the tubing wall (5/8" ID).

Critical flow for 5/8" ID is in the neighborhood of 1.3gal/min very roughly,
but of course most peristaltic pumps cannot handle such diameter tubing.

Perhaps more interesting is that Kunze points to beta-glucans deformation,
and resulting difficult lautering as a result of shear forces !  Any of you
RIMSers see this ?

 -S





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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:53:05 -0400
From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re Pumping - I did - now I don't

From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>


A few years ago I decided that pumping wort/beer around my "brewery"
(laundry room) would be efficient and easier than siphoning.  So I picked
up a little magnetic drive hot liquid pump from
McMaster, and medical grade quick disconnects and lots of tubing.  I
used it to pump hot wort from the kettle through the CFC and into the
carboy.  I used it to pump green beer from the primary to the
secondary.  And, I used it to pump from the secondary into the keg.  
I used it on about 10 or 12 5 gallon batches.

I experienced a number of problems and annoyances.  First, the little
pump was not self-priming.  It had to be filled with liquid before it
would pump.  

Second, the pump cavitated like crazy, particularly with green beer
with CO2 in solution.  The CO2 comes out of solution and causes all
sorts of gurgling and serious cavitation, 

Third, it was more stuff to sanitize and clean, more tubing, more
hardware, it was just more stuff to deal with, more stuff to worry 
about.

Finally I realized that the pump wasn't making anything easier, in
fact it was making brewer harder.

I would agree with your conclusion and would not use it as yuou did, but I
think you were using the pump for the wrong applications.

A mag drive pump has a place in brewing beer. Usually to move hot wort or
water prior to the boil where you will not experience any of the above
problems if your breweery is set-up correctly. 
Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com Manufacturer of 3
Vessel Brew Systems, HERMS, SS Brew Kettles, SS hopback and the MAXIchiller


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:22:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: mag6 at po.CWRU.Edu (Martin A. Gulaian)
Subject: The Zone Beer Diet

Brian Dixon says:

[zone diet snip]

>
>In any case, the beer drinkers in the crowd might want to know that the beer
>belly effect can be reduced!  For reasons of hormone control, specifically
>the glucagon/insulin axis, Dr. Sears recommends eating and snacking with
>particular ratios of the macronutrients (protein, carbohydrate, fat).  It
>works.  The ratio is for each 7 grams of protein, eat 9 grams of
>carbohydrate and 1.5 to 3 grams of fat.  In calories, each meal and snack
>should be 30% protein, 40% carbohydrate, and 30% fat.  Any higher in the
>carbs and you increase your insulin response, which in turn reduces blood
>sugar by moving sugars into fat store and locks up fat store so that you
>can't utilize it.  Since maltose has a glycemic index even higher than pure
>sucrose, beer is an especially effective way to mess up your insulin
>response and to gain (and keep) fat ... hence the beer belly.  I'm 43 lbs
>(out of 58 that I needed to lose) into proving that Dr. Sears is right.  If
>you are interested, check out http://www.zoneperfect.com.
>

Of course there's no maltose to speak of in beer once you ferment it.
The calories are mostly from alcohol and it takes a long liver
torturing route for it ever to show up as blood glucose...

- ---

My diet is probably something like 10% protein, 10% fat, 
80% carbohydrates (I live on meals like a big plate of pasta
and veggies and a big glass of skim milk... or beer) and a 
quick pinch test on my "beer belly" measures 3.5mm this morning.

Your sense of how much of a fraud Dr Sears is may vary, but 
mine is pretty high.

- --
Marty Gulaian - Cleveland, Ohio


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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:29:33 -0400
From: Kevin or Darla Elsken <kelsken at adelphia.net>
Subject: Making beer / wasting water

In HBD #3110, Jim Clayton makes several suggestions for using waste
water from brewing for other uses...

While I don't consider myself a tree hugging environmentalist, I have
always been a bit dismayed at the amount of water that one can 'waste'
in brewing beer.  I try to reduce this waste by recycling sanitizing
solution.  I keep my carboys (6.5 gal, 5 gal, 3 gal) filled with a
bleach sanitizing solution.  On brew day, I transfer the contents of the
large carboy to my plastic fermenting bucket.  Based on the age of the
sanitizer, and / or the smell from the sanitizing solution, I add
additional bleach.  I then use this water to sanitize spoons, airlocks,
racking canes, etc. that will be used during the brew day.

When the brew is ready for the primary I transfer the sanitizing
solution back to the carboy.  This also gives a good flush to the
racking cane and hose.  When the brew is ready for the secondary, I
transfer the sanitizer to my 33 qt enamelware pot, then move the brew to
the carboy.  I usually put the sanitizer back into the plastic fermenter
while the beer is in the secondary.  This water can then be used to
sanitize the bottling bucket.  And it finally ends up back in the
carboy.

All in all, it is a lot of transferring, but to me it is worth it... 
Which brings me to questions #1 : If the sanitizing solution (bleach in
water) is stored in the carboy under an airlock, how long will it remain
a sanitizing solution?  I imagine that chlorine cannot evaporate, but
after 2 or 3 months it does not smell as strong as it does when I first
put it away.  So I usually add more bleach to be sure.

The other portion of the brewing process that wastes excessive water is
the wort cooling with an immersion chiller.  I know that one can add a
pump to recirculate the cooling water, but I would be curious to hear
from anyone about how they setup up their system.  In particular, in the
initial cooling the water picks up tremendous heat from the wort.  How
do you effectively cool the water?  I know ice can be used, but I would
imagine that it would take alot of ice.  

Thanks for any info.


Kevin Elsken
Little Boy Brewery


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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:49:00 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: DWI

Brewsters:

One night a police officer was staking out a  particularly rowdy bar, for

possible violations of the driving-under-the-influence laws.
At closing time, he saw a guy stumble out of the bar, trip on the curb 
And
try his keys on five different cars before he found  his.
Then he sat in the front seat fumbling around with his keys for several
minutes.  The man was so drunk that everyone else left the bar and drove
off
before he had even put the keys in the ignition.
Finally, he started his engine and began to pull away.  Chuckling at the
pathetic driver, the  police officer stopped him, read him his rights and

administered the Breathalyzer test.


The results showed a reading of 0.0.  The puzzled officer demanded to 
know
how this could be.  The driver replied, "Tonight I'm the designated decoy
 "

Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley 



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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 11:28:01 -0400
From: Nancy George <homsweet at voicenet.com>
Subject: Wringing Water/ol' Bottlecaps

Jim asks for ways to get every last possible drop of water used in a
responsible manner. We've used the 'attach the outline of the chiller to the
soaker hose in the garden' method for a while. Just put extension hose and
connectors where needed. This way the garden gets a good watering at least
once a week....

On Chuck's finding old bottlecaps, cork & foil lined. Cork deteriorates over
the years and hasn't been used for cap linings in quite some time.
Sanitizing them would probably cause the cork to fall apart. They have much
more value as breweriana. 

Nancy

As for brewing in the rain-Friday night would have been pretty good...






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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 13:10:21 -0600
From: Teutonic Brewer <claassen at swcp.com>
Subject: Overnight acid rests?

Hi All,

In the aftermath of my posting my sour mashing techniques, Stephen
Alexander noted in HBD #3101:

>As long as everyone is breaking out those dictionaries - note the difference 
>between a (bacterial) acid rest and a sourmash.

I've always made a concentrated sour mash.  OTOH, has anyone out there
doughed in at ground water temperature or at the traditional "acid rest"
temperature around 38C and allowed the mash to sit overnight or until the
pH drops?  I reckon that the bacteria would chew on the limited amount of
sugars in the malt and slowly acidify the mash.  Any experience would be
appreciated.  Maybe there's an experiment begging to be performed here.... TIA!

Prost!
Paul Claassen (Teutonic Brewer)
Albuquerque, Chile Republic of New Mexico



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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 15:16:45 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Colorful sugar Test, Zone Diet,

Brewsters:

Matt Comstock and I saw the same article in
C&ENews regarding a sugar complexing agent
which formed different colors with many of the
simple sugars and asks if Clinitest is responsive
to these sugars differently.  


Clinitest is responsive to reducing sugars, but
an exact quantitative relationship is unknown
by me and others who have indicated they were
interested in pursuing the data further
( where are those results, LouB?). I have come across
a reference in an old Organic Chemistry text that
says the results are not stoichiometric but are
reproducible, as the only such reference.

The Clinitest reaction is a complex reaction forming
copper oxides and the like. The color is time
dependent, so obviously there are a number of
factors entering into the use of Clinitest, but it can
be done reproducibily.  It cannot distinguish
between various kinds of sugars, although it is
responsive to lactose which is not fermentable
and non-responsive to sucrose which is
fermentable in a brewing environment containing
invertase. This is why I suggest it be used at the
end if the fermentation, so the sucrose will be gone
and before any lactose is added. The test reads
"% glucose", but it is not responding to glucose
at the end of a fermentation, obviously just the
reducing sugars which are likely higher in MW
and less readily fermented.
- -------------------------------------
Brian Dixon has lost 43 pounds and is pleased
with the Zone Diet.  He goes on to explain how
one can drink beer occasionally and not endure
a change in the slope of weight loss. Only problem
with Brian's dissertation is that these is no maltose
in beer, even though he bases his whole discussion
on the assumption that there is. Carbohydrates
in the form of dextrins, yes - maltose no - the yeast
got to the maltose first!

I too have personal knowledge of a diet based on 

limiting carbohydrate intake relative to fats and proteins
and can also attest that the diet does work well and
rather painlessly.  Just count the carbos in the beer
and you can enjoy beer and sausages as does
Brian or just count your one or two beers a day as
part of your carbo intake. Eat spaghetti squash with
spaghetti sauce or whatever has low carbohydrates
like various cole products instead of potatoes. Since
my beers have a higher OG than commercial beers
and I often have a lot of dextrins, based on the FG,
I typically double the estimated value of carbos.

My nephew lost 70 pounds on the "Protein Power"
diet (similar to the Zone) and was promoted to VP.
Co-incidence?

Books on this diet and one on food content are
available in your bookstore and necessary.
If you are worried about "ketosis" as anatgonists
would have you believe is a problem ( it's not a
problem for healthy people) buy a pack of "ketostix"
from your pharmacy and check it.  You will remain
in the "zero to trace" amount normal for humans if
you are healthy.

You might be surprised to know that too much
catsup is one of the no-nos ( high sugar content),
but mustard and unsweetened salsa and other
tomato sauces are fine. Knock off that sugar in
your coffee for the carbos not the calories.

Some people respond to articifial sweeteners as
though they were sugars (I did). If you do, do not
include these in your diet. Good Luck!

Drink more beer worry less about the wasteline
consequences after you lose a few inches.

Keep on Brewin'

        

Dave Burley 


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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:50:40 -0400
From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at unix.mail.virginia.edu>
Subject: Great immersion chiller improvement idea

I use an immersion chiller to cool my brews. It is a two part
system with a coil sitting in ice water to pre-chill the water
going to the kettle coil. But wha I have found out is that the
liquid around both coils needs to be stirred for the most
effective cooling. So my idea for you creative builders out there
is a water driven impeler to stir both the ice bath and the
kettle. Just before the water gets to the first coil you have a
't' that shoots some water through a water powered stirring
device and then comes back to the source and enters the main
pipe. And do the same thing for a water powered stirring device
in the kettle.
Pretty chilling, don't you think?
So go ahead and take my idea for free and then just e-mail me the
working plans or post them on the digest.
Waiting patiently in Charlottesville,Va
Rick


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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:04:36 +1000
From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au>
Subject: Water Re-cycling



Jim Clayton wrote:

"Take a minute to think about all the water consumed/wasted in the
brewery.  Cooling water could be hosed into the washing machine for the load
that's always waiting... How about some creative recycling of our
waste water?  "

I was think along similar lines so I captured the fist 40 L or so of hot
water from the immersion chiller, dumped it in the bathtub and then threw in
the three kids. Add soap, shampoo and a few firm paternal directives and you
have clean kids as well as cool wort! probably saved 20c in heating and
1E-09% of Sydneys daily water consumption, but hey, isn't that what
recycling is all about?

Steve L


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Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 23:17:47 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Scotch Ales

Keith MacNeal Wrote:

> Williams Brewing also stocks peated malt as well as Scotch malt, a slighty
> darker version of pale malt that is supposed to be similar to what is used
> to
> produce scotch ales.  I've used them both in some scotch ales (I even put
> the smoked malt into some porter) and have been happy with the results.
>

Just retreading some old ground.   I love the Scotch ale styles and the use
of peat smoked barley in ales, I am quite fond of Tucker Smoked Porter,
brewed in Southern Indiana.  For years I thought peat smoked barley was
common in Scotch ale brewing.  After some research that involved writing to
a brewing historian  in Scotland I learned that  it is not.  There were a
few produced in the 1960's but they are generally considered an anomaly and
smoked peat is not considered indicative of the Scotch ale (beer) brewing
style.

The Scots brewed beer in the lowlands where coal was used as fuel and peat
is not available.   Whiskey was historically made in the Highlands where
Peat is the more common fuel due to the absence of coal.  Much of this
division is probably due to a long history of prohibition against distilling
in Scotland when much whiskey was distilled illegally.   Since brewers and
distillers malted and kilned their own malt they kept their malts as a
secret of their brewing process.  There was really no peat smoked malt
traded to the lowland areas of the country.   Since it wasn't available, it
was never used in the brewing of ale.

Also, you might want to check out some of the Scottish hop alternatives for
your brew.  Since hops are not indiginous to Scotland, Broom Heather flowers
and Sweet Gale (myrica), Rowan and Spruce were the herbs used in historic
Scotch ales.   Broom heather is commonly used as an ornamental in the US and
has a yellow flower.  8 to 10 lbs of the flowers are used in brewing.
Spruce has a limited brewing period as the young shoots must be used and are
only available in the spring.  The young shoots are sweet and bitter with
smaller amounts of the less desirable oils and strong flavors.   Pinesol
anyone?   Sweet Gale is usually incorporated into heather ales.  I am not
familiar with Rowan or where to obtain it.   I do know that is was used in
Scotch ales prior to the importation of hops to Scotland.




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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 03:30:07 -0400
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Brave New Brewery - question  #1

I've had an all too brief offline discussion with Phil Yates about science,
tradition, craft and art in brewing.  The art vs science threads on HBD
appear too sterile. All are dependent on the embedded meaning of terms with
huge emotion emotional baggage in tow.  I think separating the emotional
content of the process and it's tradition from the issue of the resulting
product makes an interesting topic.
- --

Consider a hypothetical situation:

It's the year 2005 and through the efforts of brewing scientists and
industry it's become possible to make beer from a mixture of several extract
compounds, ethanol etc.  The basic compounds involved are extracted and
refined from natural malt, hops, brewing yeast - so this may be considered
an advanced form of malt extract+hops extract brewing, however the natural
products are refined into several  categories of flavor and color and body
compounds that give the 'brewer' great control.  The resulting Super Extract
beer (SE-beer) is completely comparable to normally made beers in terms of
flavor, aroma, body, color and all other qualities.  The SE-beers can be
varied by the mix of ingredients to match all common styles. Not only have
some prestigious 'brewing'  awards been won by SE-beers, but carefully
crafted SE-beers duplicating classic natural beers are sometimes good enough
to fool experts in blind tastings.  The major mega-breweries immediately
adopt the method.

Well respected 21st century beer writer, Jikel Maxxon and pseudonymous HB
guru Nurse Pivo both claim that SE-beers are and will remain inferior and
that they lack some subtle flavor only found in 'natural' beer, but in
controlled taste experiments experts usually fail to identify the SE-beer.

'Homebrewing' an SE-beer takes about 1 hour and the control of some
parameters such as level of alcohol and potential for oxidation or infection
is much easier.  Choosing the flavor, color aroma and body and finding the
right mix to produce it remains an art.

Q: Would YOU 'homebrew' SE-beers ?

If not, then what distinction are you making between this and other brewing
advances of the last century or two - things like thermometers, water
chemistry, pure culture yeast,  temp controlled maltings, gibberellic acid
for malting, mash pH control with meters and acid addition, alpha-acid
measurements, RIMS, pumps, mixers and stirrers, iodine tests, PVPP,
hydrometers,  ... ?  Aren't they just incremental steps toward the same end
of consistency, quality, control and ease ?

If so, then is this new method of beer making really 'brewing' or are you
just mixing flavors from a palatte ?  Do you fear losing 'something' by
changing to the new method ?

I'll reserve some follow-up hypotheticals till later - assuming the topic
gathers some interest.

- ---
The question arose a several years back when I was studying mash enzymes and
it became clear that I could, use commercially available enzymes to mash raw
grain or any starch without malt.  It's not even very difficult.  Later I
realized that several operations could be applied to phenolic compounds -
probably with a haze and flavor effect. These processes *feel* more like
chemistry than brewing, but is there really a significant difference that
should inhibit us ?  Should we be restricted by some new Reinheitsgebotlich
rules ?

 -S




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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 10:51:27 +0200
From: "Richard Hooper" <richard at dundee.lia.net>
Subject: Cylindro conical fermenters

Hi all

I have finally commisioned my 240 litre cylindro conical
fermenter [jacketed, glycol cooled, 60 degree cone] and
the first brew is chugging along at +- 14 degrees.

The debut brew was made with 30kg of SA Maltsters
pale grain, on my RIMS, crushed at about a 2mm gap
on the malt mill.  I normally use 1.7mm for a smaller
brew [20kg malt], but experienced a persistent set
mash with this crush when I tried a parti-gyle brew a
while back, using 40kg malt.

The result was a decrease in the expected extract to
an OG of 1.030.  I then augmented the gravity with
[gasp] 5 litres of Hymalt glucose syrup [maize based],
to make a beer with a typical [I assume] South African
Breweries style malt bill, OG in the region of 1.040 [forgot
to measure it].


I have made beer using this stuff before, it gives a bit of a
sweetish corn flavour at first, tending towards dryness, citrusy,
later in the life of the beer [unfiltered, in keg].

400gm of Saaz pellets went into the kettle, all FWH.

The wort was force cooled to 18 degrees C then transferred
with buckets [waiting for my high temp. pump from Moving
Brews] to the fermenter.

The day before, I made a "mini mash" of 15 litres of 1.020
wort in which was pitched 50gm of re-hydrated Nottingham
yeast.  This was at high krauesen by the time it was mixed in
to the first 2 x 25 litre buckets of new wort.

I see the gravity is now at 1.012, but the yeast is still very active.
I expect it to go down 1.008 or less.

My questions relate to yeast removal/cropping.
At what point during the fermentation [chronologically or
attenuation-wise] should [could] one remove the first batch of 
"dirty" [trubby ?] yeast ?

I recall reading a Pierre Rajotte brochure which mentioned
that the yeast would have the consistency of peanut butter.
I have not found that to be the case after 4 days, but today 
[six days] it appears to be a bit thicker.

When is the yeast OK for saving for the next brew ?  Does
one go purely y appearance [white-ish, clean looking] ?

How do I keep cats out of the brew, Phil ?

How do you expect the foetus to gestate, Loretta, in a box ?

What is the meaning of life ?

How many yeast cells can dance on the head of a pin ?

Questions, questions, questions for the concerned young person.

I think I'll have a home-brew now.

Regards
King Pivo

" 'Ow do you know 'e's a king ?"
" 'E 'asn't got sh*t all over him."





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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 06:00:04 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: 1/4 keg for kettle?

I was given a 1/4 keg....and wonder: couldn't I cut the top off, and use
it as a kettle?  It must be 7 gal....so couldn't one do a full 5 gal boil
with this?
 ..Darrell 
<Terminally INtermediate Home-brewer>


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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:03:44 +1000
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au>
Subject: Steve's On To Something

Okay Steve,
           Good question, very good question. But I think you might have
jumped a little sideways from the discussion we had. Those who find
scientific discussions on brewing a complete and utter bore are generally
not the same folk who fear that advancing science is taking from them
something they treasure. What you have proposed for 2005 is a kit beer that
produces the same or better result than a mash. Just a bit of mix and match
required and this is now considered to be the "art" of brewing. This
situation may eventually be achieved (though I doubt it - in this sense I am
a traditionalist) but this is not the science that you represent. Are you
thinking you would prefer to kit brew if they could just get the quality of
a mash in the can? I know there are a lot of brewers who would be over the
moon about such an advancement. But these are the same folk who probably
think Steve Alexander is obsessed with making things more complicated than
they need be. Well until that lunatic Eric Panther burst on to the scene.
      To answer you on question #1
             I doubt if I would be much interested in SE brewing. Too much
like making a cup of tea.
             The distinction I would make is that all the scientific / art
input would no longer be valid for wasting six or so hours on brew day.
Hell, I would be expected to mow the lawn and wash the cars instead!
             I can't say I ever saw kit brewing as real brewing, but I can
certainly say I understand why it suits so many brewers. We don't all have
the time to fart around mashing. But of all the brewers that I would
consider disinterested in SE brewing, Steve Alexander would be at the top of
the list. Well just behind Doc Panther. Perhaps Steve you will surprise me
and announce yourself as a latent kit brewer, just dying to put all those
science journals in the bin. I doubt it. In any case, the very next brewer
to depart the scene behind you would be myself!

Cheers
Phil Yates



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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 11:30:48
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: Making yeast starters in microwave

Just finished a web page that details an easy method for making yeast
starters in the microwave without making a mess from boilovers.  It uses
HopTech's Foam Control (std. disclaimer- and then some more on the web
page...).  Although I've just started a sanitation test, past starters show
no evidence of any sanitation problems.  

It's at the "Microwave Starter Prep. Method" link at the URL in the sig.
line below or via http://hbd.org/cdp/


c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/  



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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 11:42:58 -0500
From: "Mark Vernon" <mark at pleasantstreet.com>
Subject: Sight Glass for Gott

Okay, I am on my way to putting together my rims system (thanks to everyone
who sent me info/links). I found my 2 10gal Gott coolers ant Home Depot
(thanks to everyone who responded with resources for those) on sale even for
$29.95  at . I want to install sight glasses in each (Mash Tun and HLT). I know
someone out there has done this, and can save me from reinventing the wheel.
Your help as always is greatly apprecitated.


Mark Vernon MCSE,MCP+I, MCT
mark at pleasantstreet.com
www.pleasantstreet.com

Beer is proof that god loves mankind...
    Ben Franklin



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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 12:07:09 -0500
From: larry land <lland at startext.net>
Subject: A question or two for the "long-time" brewers

[kindly note the abscense of the description "OLD"!]

Can anyone tell me what happened to an Author and homebrew prommoter
Leigh Beaddle?  (may spell Beadle)  He wrote some books around late 60's
on homebrewing; seemed to be popular authority, now semms to have
vanished.

Also, is Blue Ribbon Malt Extract (in cans) still available?

Thanks.                             lland at startext.net



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Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 12:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com>
Subject: WET T-SHIRT CONTEST IN MY BASEMENT

First contestant is a full-bodied Belgian.  She's wearing an old
t-shirt of mine.  I'm soaking her down, and I've got a fan blowing on
high just to keep things interesting.  

Wyeast #1214.  OG=1.082.  Pitched 3 qt starter, into cool, <70 F wort. 
Volcanic eruption ensued.  Started slowly, but now I've got spooge all
over the basement floor.  The temp has got to be at least 80 F.  Hot,
baby, hot.

I've searched the archives a little for #1214. AlK recommended large
starters.  Others recommended cooler temperatures.  Am I destined for
bubble-gum beer as I've read about?  Next time I will start the wet
t-shirt contest a little earlier to try to avoid the higher temps
during fermentation.  

So there is a trade-off between big starters and rapid heat-evolving
fermentations.  What's best.  Probably to have a big starter AND good
heat control.  

And more wet t-shirts.

Matt Comstock in Cincinnati.




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