---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  KROC World Brewers Forum (tm) ("The Brews Traveler")
  Mash Mixer ("Dana H. Edgell")
  Oh, Lighten up and go drink a beer! (Bob Sheck)
  A Beer for the Millennium ("Harry Ewasiuk")
  Come Back Eric ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  RE- BrewingArtV.Science/Papazian/An idea ("Darryl Downie")
  over pressure boiling/ not boiling ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Re: FG from OG (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Licorice (Jeff Renner)
  Acid testing ("Jack Schmidling")
  Wasting water? (Eric R Lande)
  Keg carbonation (Eric R Lande)
  Equipment and Swirling (Eric R Lande)
  Dry Hopping - Time Limit? (Charley Burns)
  RE- Dark mild licorish flavour ("Darryl Downie")
  Gospel of DeClerk/Freshlock/etc. (AJ)
  Is hops our obsession? (Eric R Lande)
  Ice brewed - LOL (Eric R Lande)
  licorice in homebrew (VQuante)
  re:scotch ales ("david wright")
  Homebrew Shops in the Metro Denver Region. ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  Mega brew terms ("Darren Robey")
  ice beer info (Laurel Maney)
  Only the ice in their veins... (Pat Babcock)
  Mash/Lauder Tun (Eric R Lande)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* The HBD now hosts eight digests related to this and a few other hobbies.
* The latest are the Gadgeteers Digest (gadget at hbd.org) and the Home
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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:15:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: "The Brews Traveler" <BrewsTraveler at adamsco-inc.com>
Subject: KROC World Brewers Forum (tm)


             Fifth Annual KROC World Brewers Forum (tm)


The Keg Ran Out Club (KROC) in conjunction with the American Homebrewers
Assocation, the Birko Corporation and The Homebrew Hut is once again very
excited to bring to the Denver area the Fifth Annual KROC World Brewers
Forum (tm).

KROC would like to extend a very big thank you to our sponsers and the
attendees of past Forum events. Without your support none of this would be
possible! This year's event offers a longer format to allow ample time to
listen and discuss beer and brewing at length. With that said The Keg Ran
Out Club proudly presents this year's Forum speakers:

Chuck Skypeck
     Owner and Brewer of Bosco's Brew Pub, 1998 Real Ale Festival Gold
     Medal winner, and pioneer extraordinaire of the traditional German
     Steinbier.

Eric Warner
     Head Brewer of Broadway Brewing, Diplom-Braumeister from Technical
     University of Munich at Weihenstephan, and author of the Brewers
     Publication beer style series on "German Wheat Beer" and "Kolsch"


The Forum is free, door prizes and raffle items will be given away.  There
will be food and a two very special beer Steinbiers served. Bring your
thrist, bring your homebrew, bring your quest for knowledge but don't 
forget to bring yourself to the Fifth Annual KROC World Brewers Forum(tm). 


 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Cost: FREE!
      When: 8pm-12pm Thursday, October 7, 1999
     Where: Denver Marriott City Center
            1701 California, Denver, (303) 297-1300
       Web: http://www.dallmann.com/KROC/wbf99.htm
      RSVP: BrewsTraveler at adamsco-inc.com or (303) 460-1776 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Keg Ran Out Club, KROC, KROC World Brewers Forum and the KROC logo are
trademarks of The Keg Ran Out Club.
Copyright (c) 1995-1999, all rights reserved.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:10:22 -0700
From: "Dana H. Edgell" <edgell at far-tech.com>
Subject: Mash Mixer


HBD collective,

#1

I have an ice-cream motor and a fan blade that I am attempting to use as a
mash-mixer. The problem is that the motor goes clockwise and the fan blade
is counter-clockwise which results in the mash being pulled up from the
bottom by the mixer. i beleive I would get a better mix (especially the
grain at the very bottom of the mash-tun) if I could push the grain down in
the middle and have it come up the sides.

I could attempt to bend the fan blades to work the other way but I suspect
I would most likely screw them up completely.

Is there any easy way to get the motor to spin the other way or am I stuck
with bending the fan or buying a new motor?

#2
All the disccusion about evaporative cooling has me thinking about some
brass & stainless steel nozzels I have for a mister. They have a
0.012"/0.3mm orifice and a flow rate of 0.540 gal/hr  at  45psi water pressure.

I had been thinking about using them to help evaporatively cool my hot wort
by spraying the outside of the brew kettle in conjunction with a more
conventional wort chiller.

After the discussion of evaporative coolling carboys I am wondering if they
can be used for that. I have noticed that my carboy t-shirts aren't the
most effective at sucking up water and dry out near the top. A mister could
keep the t-shirt wet. The mist could also keep my entire garage cooler and
help that way. I am concerned about naking the garage too damp (mold &
mildew etc) and about wasting too much water but I image putting the water
flow on a solenoid valve and timer would solve that.

Is anyone out there using mister nozzels? Any thoughts on the above two
applications?

Thanks for any input.
Dana Edgell

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell              mailto:EdgeAle at cs.com
Edge Ale Brewery
San Diego

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder




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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:13:54 -0400
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: Oh, Lighten up and go drink a beer!

Scott, et al-

These guys are full of brown hops and spent Irish moss. They can't
be serious! It's a game with them.

I've been reading this list for 5 yrs now, and I just can't
believe some of these posts are serious!

Bob Sheck <crawling into my kevlar re-enforced flame suite!>


RE your Post:
Subject: Re: Reynolds Number
> Here is another clue in case you still dont get it.  The RN values
> of 13,500 and 5500 differ by a factor of 2.455.  This factor is
> awfully close to the mass density of water (2.094 lbs s^2 /
> ft^4). As I indicated in my previous post, rho/mu = nu.  Is it
> starting to sink in yet?
> 
> Dr. Beer

<sigh> it's also pretty close to the difference between using water or
wort, as Steve correctly did.  

it's mean-spirited, petty crap like this that keeps a lot of us from
contributing.  

 -SM-



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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:27:20 -0600
From: "Harry Ewasiuk" <shogun at ccinet.ab.ca>
Subject: A Beer for the Millennium

Greetings Fellow Pivonians,
 
The Millennium is coming up and just to do something different, I thought,
why not brew a beer to celebrate it. What style would you suggest and why?

Harry Ewasiuk
Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
Somewhat West, NorthWest of Jeff Renner.... a few Texas miles thataway.....


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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:54:39 +1000
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au>
Subject: Come Back Eric

The last post we had from Doc Panther stated:

     "Nurse Ratched has caught me using the computer! I am in big trouble!
At least McMurphy has things figured out..

Eric."

This post worried me greatly, I know what a nasty piece of work that Nurse
Ratched can be. Listen Eric, you're not the only guy around here that needs
a frontal lobotomy. And believe me, it really isn't all that painful.

Feeling guilty for my strong words on the sheep issue, I tried to contact
Eric to tell him spraying nitrogen over everything that did or didn't move
in the brew house was really just fine by me. I would even help him eat some
of that cold mutton if he promised not to do what I feared he was going to.
But alas he was already gone. Vanished, banged out, he just aint with us
anymore. His computer spat back a message saying "Sorry Randall, your on
your own, enjoy your lobotomy".

I appreciate Doc Pivo making a special return appearance to smooth the
waters but I fear the worst. Steve Alexander's latest rendition on
scientific equation probably didn't help (I always blame Steve when someone
leaves the HBD - he expects that of me). But the biggest arse here must
surely be myself! Thanks for dropping in Eric, sorry you didn't want to
stay. Better luck on another planet.

Now who else in this therapy group is in need of special attention?

Cheers
Phil Yates.








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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:56:12 +0930
From: "Darryl Downie" <dagzy at senet.com.au>
Subject: RE- BrewingArtV.Science/Papazian/An idea

I think Jim Kingsbergs idea of a collective brewing comparison has merit.
Would it be an idea to start off by creating a HBD subscribers locality
index so we could form brewing groups? ( oops this is starting to sound like
an Internet "Royal Buffalo's" club ). That way we could get together and
help out the newbies (like me). Also I think you would get a fairer taste
comparison from several sources instead of just 1 biased opinion. "Yeah I
couldn't drink it but I'm not going to tell anyone else now am I" !

I don't believe that there really is an issue over " Art VS Science ", why
do we brew beer I ask you? The answer is always the same....ENJOYMENT. Some
gain pleasure from making a nice brew easily, others get the pleasure from
calculating various aspects of the brewing process and seeing if they were
correct. Others get a kick out of tinkering with gadgets and filters etc.
others get the pleasure from getting absolutely plastered out of their
skulls every night and only stopping when the beer needs brewing (sometimes
not even then). Still this forum provides a place for all of us to offer
advice and gain from others experience, or just be absolutely flamboozled by
people talking about things that you will only come to know of in time.

By the way, thanks to all those wonderful souls who have helped me out with
my previous post "Trials , Tribulations and Finnings ". I'm getting there
slowly but surely, where the money is coming from I don't know, Ah well, all
in good time. I was very impressed by the co-operative nature of the forum,
I have participated in other news groups etc: and the atmosphere was rather
stuck up to say the least, maybe it's the lack of beer in the other groups?

A Jest....

There was a young man new to brewing.
Who constantly ended up spewing.
Not from aches or from ails.
Nor batches that failed.
But from three jugs a night he's consuming.

All the best

Darryl

Adelaide Australia



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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:03:35 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: over pressure boiling/ not boiling

In 3116 Micah states,
 "Second, the chemical reactions 

occuring in the boil (there are many) take place at the liquid/gas 

inferace, at or near the surface of the wort in the kettle. THis is due 

largely to the asmetrical cavitational collapse of the steam bubbles in 

the wort itself."

This is a puzzlement because, in speaking to a German Brewmaster at a 
pub,
he stated that to duplicate his recipe from Germany at sealevel that he 
did
not
boil his wort because this would cause to much bitterness. He heated to 
210
and held this because this was the boiling point at the altitude his
recipes
were made for. No boiling, no cavitational collapse but certainly
isomerisation was going on, you could taste it in the beer.

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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:15:36 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: FG from OG

AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>, who face had just previously taken on a peculiar
asymmetry, wrote:

>Apparent attenuation realized depends on
>lots of factors but if everything is done right the yeast are the main
>determinant.

What about mash temperature?  It's my impression from my experience that
this is the biggest factor.  I recently switched from my usual 140/158 mash
for CAPs to 147/158 (apparently a common German regime) and am getting
closer to 80%AA rather than the previous 67%.  This results in a crisper,
more alcoholic beer, which is different, not better, but which I prefer in
the summer.

Yeast has an effect, but perhaps a temporary one?  If the beer is drunk
soon, it won't matter.  It has been posted here on HBD that several beer
text authors (DeClerk?) claim that all yeasts have the same attenuation
potential, but that some floc out earlier than others, giving lower AA.
Certainly many of my lower AA ales fermented with very flocculant, top
cropping yeasts continue to ferment in the keg even though most of the
yeast was removed, drying somewhat and carbonating.  I just retapped a mild
that I had brewed in May and I had to release a lot of pressure.  I surmise
that this is a case of the yeast just finishing up the job that a less
flocculant yeast would have done more quickly.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:43:13 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Licorice

I seem to be picking on  AJ <<ajdel at mindspring.com> today, who wrote:


>There has been some discussion of licorice in beer. Certainly Old

>Peculiar tastes of licorice and according to the Good Beer Guide

>licorice is used in the recipe. So there is at least one commericial

>example that I am aware of.


Old Peculier was the first one I checked in The Real Ale Almanac, since
I thought I had read that it was an ingredient, along with treacle, but
the ingredients reported are only pale malt, crystal malt, unmalted
cereal and sugars.  Sugars could well include treacle, but I doubt that
licorice (extract?) would be considered one, but perhaps it is.  Of
course, there's no guarantee that brewers disclose their ingredients
fully.


I can't seem to find my newest Good Beer Guide, but the 1987,1994
and1996 don't actually say they use licorice, just "a solid body of
malts giving lasting roast and liquorice tastes ..."  (1996).  Do you
have a more specific citation, AJ?


Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu

"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.



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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:35:04 -0500
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Acid testing

This is really cheese related but I am coming to HBD in the hopes that one of
the resident
chemists will come to the rescue of the cheesemakers.

One of the beloved suppliers of beer and wine making supplies sells an acid
testing
kit for wine making. An enterprising cheese making supplier has adopted it to
cheese
and I am trying to understand the whole process.  The more I attmpt to learn,
the more
confused I get.

The kit contains phenolphthalein, 1/5 normal sodium hydroxide solution and two
syrenges
for (crudely) measuring out the two solutions and samples.

The claim is that for each .1cc of neutralizer added to turn the sample pink,
the acidity is .1%.  The problem is that the cheese version calls for a 10 cc
sample of milk and the wine version calls for a 15cc sample of wine.  If that is
not confusing enough, the wine one says that for red wines you can add enough
distilled water to lighten it up so you can see the color change more easily.

Both methods call for the same 3 drops of phenolphthalein.  Why not 1 or 10 or
why does not the amount of this effect the measurement.

What is the relationship between t.a. and pH?

And a whole bunch more question?

js

PHOTO OF THE WEEK  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
HOME  http://user.mc.net/arf



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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:09:51 -0400
From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Wasting water?

In HBD #3115 Bob Fesmire asks about wasting water while brewing.

Bob, water for beer is anything but a waste.  There is the potential to
waste a lot of water in the process, though.  Check the HBD over the last
week or so for lots of ideas for minimizing water waste.  I collected
five or so inches of water in my sons baby pool during last weekends
storms (first rain in two months - but you know that already, Bob).  If I
were brewing now (instead of having my wife's relatives staying) I might
run that through a filter and probably have better water that our
township's ground water.

Happy Brewing


Eric Lande
Brewery to be named when I finish it
Doylestown, PA


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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:03:46 -0400
From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Keg carbonation

In HBD #3115 Erik Farrell asks about getting more beer that foam out of
his new kegging setup.

Hi Erik, I've used kegs for about three years now and have had a lot of
success.  I don't know what your knowledge level is on the subject so
I'll give a quick over view.  The carbonation in beer (or anything) come
from CO2 being dissolved in the liquid.  When I keg a batch, I'll set my
regulator to 40 lbs and rock the keg for three or four minutes then
disconnect the CO2 tank and put it in the fridge for a couple of days. 
(It seems that the longer it sits the more stable the head becomes.) 
When I am ready to serve the beer, I'll bleed the pressure off
completely, then bring it back up to 8-10 lbs. (I think that 14 lbs is
too much - IMHO).  The reason that the last couple of glasses of a two
liter bottle of soda is flat is that the pressure of the dissolved gas in
the liquid will equalize with the ambient pressure.  So, when I'm done
with a keg for that session, I will put some extra pressure into the keg
(the amount will depend on how much carbonation you want in the beer the
next time you bring it out - you get a feel for it after a while (don't
you hate when people say that)).  If there is 15 lbs worth of CO2 in
solution and I put 15 lbs of pressure into the keg, the environment is
stable and carbonation remains the same.

Good luck and happy kegging!


Eric Lande
Brewery to be named when I finish it
Doylestown, PA


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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:54:18 -0400
From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Equipment and Swirling

In HBD #3115 Darryl Downie asks about all grain equipment and swirling
his fermenter.

I've been around in the background for several months just reading the
HBD so probably nobody will recognize my name, but I'd like to take a
crack at these.  I'll take these in inverse order.  I don't know if your
beer was done fermenting when you swirled it, but if it was not done
there should not be any problem.  If it was done, oh well.  Seriously,
the head space in the fermenter is filled with CO2 from the fermentation.
 All you did was remove the air lock and even if any O2 did seep through
the hole and past the heavier CO2 it would only be a tiny amount.  When
you swirled it you were mixing in CO2, not O2 so you shouldn't have a
problem.  Charlie Pap. is much demonized in the HBD but he does have one
good point:  He promotes mellowness - "relax, don't worry, have a
homebrew."  In the absolute worst case scenario the beer sucks and you
dump it.  It is all up side from there.  Ready to really laugh:  Once I
actually took the lid off of my fermenter, stirred it vigorously with a
spoon and re closed it.  I won't bore you with the reasons, but the beer
came out fine (luckily).

As for equipment for all grain brewing, I, too, am putting together an
all grain brewery (after three years of extract brewing) and trying to do
it on a (small) budget.  If you want to see many different home breweries
and read explanations of how those brewers put them together then check
out this web site:
		http://www.axess.com/users/jsm-mv/brasseurs-mv/homebreweries.html
That should help you out.


Eric Lande
Brewery to be named when I finish it
Doylestown, PA


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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:24:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: cburns at jps.net (Charley Burns)
Subject: Dry Hopping - Time Limit?

I've been aging this barleywine with an ounce of whole cascade on top for
about a month now. Question is, at what point in time does it make sense to
replace the hops with fresh ones? Assuming I want more and more hop aroma,
at what point will all or nearly all of the aroma be extracted from the
hops? 1 month? 2,3,??

Charley



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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:24:06 +0930
From: "Darryl Downie" <dagzy at senet.com.au>
Subject: RE- Dark mild licorish flavour

I read in  "The beginner's guide to advanced and all-grain brewing" By Rich
Webb, that "Condensation of molasses gives a product called brewers
licorice, which tastes very similar. Further refinement yields brown sugar,
and finally cane sugar.
If this is of any help I don't know but I thought it might come in  handy
Best of Brewing

Darryl

Adelaide Australia



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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:32:16 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Gospel of DeClerk/Freshlock/etc.

Dr. P commented on our holy texts. I'd just like to add that the more I
understand about brewing the more I appreciate DeClerk. Yes, it's true
that brewing science has advanced just a bit since he wrote and that
some of his procedures and explanations are, therefore, archaic and that
there are a fair number of errors in translation/transcription but as to
breadth of treatment and as a historical reference you just can't beat
these two volulmes. You all know what I'm interested in and the whole of
Vol II is dedicated to that sort of stuff so perhaps that colors my
thinking. Recall that it is Siebel who has reprinted these books and
demands that their students read it. I guess it's sort of like the
piano. Even if you only intend to play Beethoven, your ability to do so
will be much enhanced by study of Bach.

I would strongly recommend that the folks who debate the relative
importance of science and art read DeClerk's introduction which touches
on this subject.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Mike Maimone mentioned the Freshlock II Vacuum Sealer. Sounds as if it
might have been better named the Fre Shlock II.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

John Varady mentions free spectrophotometers. There is no single
instrument which does so many things in a brewing lab. This sounds like
an opportunity for some suitably motivated tinkerers.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Rod Prather asks for anecdotes about the pharmacological properties of
hops. I think we are all aware of the quaint practice of using hops
filled pillows to cure insomnia.

In my own brewing sessions I find that once the hops hit the wort and
the odor of them permeates the kitchen I start to crave a beer made with
the same variety. That's addiction of a sort I suppose.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Jeff Renner questioned my statment about what determines apparant
attenuation. I did word that a little strangely. Clearly many things do
have an influence on attenuation such as how dextrinous the wort is,
whether the beer is roused during fermentation, whether it's "dropped",
etc., etc. I guess the point I was trying to make is that the yeast
themselves play an important part in determining how much sugar they can
consume. Certainly a fast top flocculator will produce less of a gravity
drop than an example of a "staub hefe". Similarly, a yeast with high
alcohol tolerance can do better than one with less alcohol tolerance in
a high gravity beer. I should have said something like "Ceteris paribus,
the yeast themselves have traits which determine the degree of
attenuation they are capable of." Guess I had those sheets ("Crisp, dry
with a hint of fruit. Attenuation 74 - 80%") from Wyeast etc. in mind

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Jeff also asks for a more specific citation re the licorice in OP. I
don't have the book at hand (can check Monday) and was relying on memory
(a dangerous thing to do) but it was only a few months ago that I was
given my first hand drawn OP and was very impressed with it. I thought
the licorice taste quite noticeable though my fellow drinkers (some of
whom were of the "Don't like this English beer. Not enough fizz.")
couldn't taste it at all. Upon getting back to the hotel I immediately
checked the "Guide" and am pretty sure it says licorice is used. But
then, as Jeff points out, the information which finds its way into
publication isn't necessarily correct. Of course if it isn't licorice,
where does that flavor come from?

- --
A. J. deLange
Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.




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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:28:17 -0400
From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Is hops our obsession?

Rod Prather writes in HBD #3116 about the similarities and/or differences
between cannabis and hops 

>A few friends and I were talking about hops and it's relationship to
>cannabis.  With the recent news that the actual addictive site of THC is
in
>the short term memory, we were wondering if there might be an addictive
>compound in hops.  Has anyone read anything about this.  Any off hand
>comments or non scientific observations would also be entertained.

Rod, I may have read something but I can't remember!


Eric Lande
Brewery to be named when I finish it
Doylestown, PA


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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:17:03 -0400
From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Ice brewed - LOL

 Steven Sanders asks in HBD #3116 about the process of Ice Brewing.  IMHO
this is a process invented not in the brewery or lab, but in the
marketing firm with a hugh contract as the catalyst.  We all know that
there are only two general categories of beer:  Lager and Ale.  However,
if you ask the avg. American what the difference among Beer, Lager, and
Ale is you will get an answer something like this:  Beer is beer, it is
what we all drink in a bar or at home after work. It is gold colored,
easy to drink, and is best very cold.  Lager is a specialty beer that has
just recently been introduced by some breweries and is usually stronger
that beer and maybe slightly darker.  Ale is what they drink warm in
England.  It is dark colored and usually thick.  Thus, once again IMHO,
the marketers latched onto the part about very cold and decided that ice
brewing would make people think that the product was colder than other
products.  So to answer your question, yes it is a marketing firm's way
of saying Lager.


Eric Lande
Brewery to be named when I finish it
Doylestown, PA


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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:41:13 EDT
From: VQuante at aol.com
Subject: licorice in homebrew

Discussion in hbd was about licorice in homebrew.

After having produced a licorice-tasting ale without addition of licorice or 
licorice extract, I thought, I'd share the recipe with you:

4,5 kg Pilsner Malt from a small brewery near Warsaw
0,5 kg Dark Caramel Malt from the same brewery
mash-in in some 20 l water

20' at 62 C
30' at 70 C
5' mashout at 78 C

After lautering we added 1,7 kg Australian Malt Extract ("Wander Draught 
Premium. - Wander (Australia)") and 0,5 kg white sugar.

After 15' boiling we added 30 g hops "Northern Brewer" (American origin) and 
boiled another 50', lid partially open.

Chilled down in 20' to 20 C, then diluted to total volume of 36 l. 
Gravity 
reading was about 1045.

Fermented with Wyeast 1968 at 18 C, after three days (fast fermentation, 
indeed) transferred to the secondary (again at about 18 C), bottled after 
three weeks (priming with a half cup white sugar).  Forgotten to measure the 
gravity... :-(

After three weeks of bottle conditioning (at 18 C) we had a mild, dark 
ale 
with an intensive smell and taste of licorice. One of my best beers ever. 
But 
I'm not able to reproduce it again - there's nowhere in Poland to buy 
"Wander" extracts from Australia...

I think, it's the combination of the dark caramel malt with the yeast strain 
producing the licorice flavour.

Volker

Volker R. Quante
Brunnenbraeu Homebrewery

Brewing and working in Warsaw / Poland, but definitely a German Homebrewer

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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:54:23 PDT
From: "david wright" <batch43 at hotmail.com>
Subject: re:scotch ales

I congratulate Rod Prather in his posting on #3111..I'm fed up reading about 
the use of peated malt in scottish beer,it just isn't
used,I don't know where some people pick up on the supposed smokiness in 
Scottish beers,because I have never tasted any,and I live there(here?)
Historically,pale malt was kilned to a moisture content and not to a certain 
colour,this gave a moisture content of 2%,and a colour of around 8EBC.The 
use of darker malts such as Belgian,Vienna and Mild Ale malt could be used 
to match this.The use of maize grits,sometimes as much as 35% of the mash is 
also evident.
Nowadays Scottish ales are becoming more Anglified with a higher use
of hops than was in use,more bitterness and more of a hop nose or aroma.
I was lucky to receive some malt and yeast from the Ardbeg distillery
on the island of Islay,that just begged to be used in a 80/- ale.The
malt was unpeated,but was a much more richer colour than the Maris Otter 
malt that I was using with it.
Here's the recipe for 25l of fine Scotch Ale:-
2.7kg Pale Malt(Maris Otter)
1.0kg Ardbeg Malt
1.7kg Malt Extract
50g Chocolate Malt
50g Roast Barley
200g Flaked Maize
45g Cascade 6.4%A.A(90 mins)
20g Goldings 4.5%A.A(15 mins)
10g Irish Moss(15 mins)
Yeast starter made with yeast from the distillery
O.G.1050
F.g.1010
P.S While Rod may prefer to drink'whiskey',I prefer to drink'Whisky',
Macallan,Ardbeg,Glenmorangie,Bruichladich,Tamdhu.....I'll have to stop,I'm 
drooling on my keyboard!!!!!.....:-)
Davy


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:27:19 -0600
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <matthew-saunders at uswest.net>
Subject: Homebrew Shops in the Metro Denver Region.

Dear Collective,

My wife and I recently moved to Westminster (I work in downtown Denver).
Now that our apartment is starting to look more like a home and less like a
warehouse full of boxes, the time has come to find a homebrew shop.  Any
suggestions?

Cheers!
Matthew in Westminster CO.


"We have to work in the theatre of our own time,
with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones




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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:26:07 +1000
From: "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au>
Subject: Mega brew terms



 -Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:33:33 -0500
 -From: Steven Sanders <ssanders at microlink.net>
 -Subject: "ice brewing"

 -This is something that has been kinda bothering me since I have started
 -learning about brewing..

 -What in the world does "ice brewed" mean?  I see ads by the megabrewers
 -for beers made this way, and I have never run across any brewing method
 -that would involve ice. (short of dumping sterile ice into hot wort to
 -cool it down)  Is "ice brewed" just some marketing bs term for lagering?

 -Regards,

 -Steven Sanders
 -Narnia, WD


There is a mega brewed low alcohol beer here in Australia that uses as a
marketing term "Ultra High Gravity Brewed"  and I thought WOW and bowed to
it in amazement for since its brewed like this it must taste great!
Ice brewed? I dont know, but marketing terms dont have to mean much at all.

Darren Robey




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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:26:22 -0500
From: Laurel Maney <maney at execpc.com>
Subject: ice beer info

The legend I've heard about ice beers is that old time brewers would let
a keg of beer partially freeze (the water forms ice crystals, separating
from the rest of the solution), then remove the ice and enjoy the
resulting concentrated brew - a lot like making apple jack.

Megabrewers achieve the higher alcohol and more concentrated flavor
mostly by brewing at a higher gravity (or diluting less).  But to keep
within the letter of their advertising, at least one company actually
chills the beer in plate coolers to the point where it slushes up
slightly.  Then it goes to the normal final filtration where any ice
crystals would be removed, prior to packaging.  O tempora, o
mores....... (sp?  it's been a long time) ......

Laurel Maney
Brewing Technology Program
Milwaukee Area Technical College



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Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:43:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: Only the ice in their veins...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

The explanations I had heard for "ice beer" was a bit more mundane,
methinks, than the discussions of higher alcohol, etc I've seen thus far
here. T'was a friend whose father worked for A-B that told me it simply
was a means to reduce the "lagering cycle". The explanation was that by 
"slushing" the beer, they expected that it would take much less time to 
complete the lagering of the beer. The slight increase in alcohol was, to
them, but a bonus.

Can anyone confirm this?

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:56:36 -0400
From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Mash/Lauder Tun

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am in the process of putting
together an all grain brewery.  I am converting a picnic cooler (chest
type) to be a Mash/Lauder Tun.  I have constructed a manifold out of 3/4"
copper pipe and removed the drain that came with the cooler.  The hole
fits the 3/4" pipe very nicely and I have a brass 1/2" ball valve fitted
with a reducing coupling.  The dilemma that I now face is that before I
can put the tun into use I have to construct some sort of bulkhead
fitting to seal the hole and prevent both leaks and seepage into the
insulation which could cause future bacteria growth and possible
infection.  After a frustrating trip to Home Depot I still have no idea
how to accomplish this seal.  As this is the greatest collection of
brewing minds in the world, I know that the answer is out there and ask
for the help of a brewer greater than myself.  Thanks in advance.


Eric Lande 
Brewery to be named when I finish it
Doylestown, PA


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