---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Use of Pumpkin, Glass breakage (Cruiser)
  O'Fest ("Riedel, Dave")
  pumpkin ale (hal)
  Nathan's mighty old Barley Wine from HBD #3123 (Eric R Lande)
  Fridge insulation ("Adam Holmes")
  BT and Suporting those that Suport Us ("Rick Wood")
  The Brave New Brewery Is Flawed ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  shoulds and would (smorgan)
  Brewing Techniques Magazine Folds (Pat Babcock)
  BT and American Brewer (Jeffrey Donovan)
  BT replacement (JPSimo1106)
  Re: Steve's hypo #2 ("Charles T. Major")
  accurate volume measurement (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Wheat Malt in Ales (Jeff Renner)
  Brave New Brewery--whatever (MVachow)
  Alas poor BT we hardly knew Ye... (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale Clone (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Silicates in malt - any info? (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Sources of tannins/polyphenols (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  RE: Septic Brew (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Aerobic starter cultures ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Re: Brave New Brewery - question #2 (Michael Isaacs)
  Thanks! (colorart)
  RE: glass carboys ("Riedel, Dave")
  Koelsch (Spencer W Thomas)
  Patents (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: accurate volume measurement (Tidmarsh Major)
  Re: My no-sparge experience/data series (Spencer W Thomas)
  Licorice - Eureka! (Jeff Renner)
  Fermentation Cooling (JYANDERS)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:28:51 -0400
From: Cruiser <cruiser at cros.net>
Subject: Re: Use of Pumpkin, Glass breakage

All,

Matt asked about pumpkin in an ale, presumabley for Halloween.  We have
made a pumpkin ale for parties the last 4 years running, and it always
goes over extremely well with both "good beer" drinkers and the other
crowd.  That is attributable to it having just a nice hint of
pumpkin-pie flavor in an otherwise basic ale.

We get two small cooking pumpkins (meatier than other kinds), about a
pound and a half each; clean them up, cut into eighths, and remove all
the seeds and gunk (salted dried seed recipe available on request!). 
Into the oven it goes, at about 250 for a couple of hours, until the
meat starts to brown on the edges.  Cut the meat off of the rind, and
dice into 1/2" cubes. Don't slice too carefully, let the cubes get
smashed a little.

>From there, we mix it in the mash tun along with the grain, and go
slightly over the normally desired grain/water ratio.  Mash as usual, at
a fairly high temp to keep some sweetness (156?).  I suppose you could
do this in a partial mash as well.  Boil well after lautering, adding
pumpkin pie spices.  We use two sticks of cinnamon, a teaspoon of
nutmeg, a half teaspoon of ginger powder and two cloves at the boil
start, and half that amount of each just before flameout.  Or, just add
Pumpkin Pie Spice, duh!  It smells simply fantastic!  This year, we're
going to try boiling the first gallon of runnings down to a pint or so
in a separate pot, then dump it back into the boiler, to give it some
nice caramel notes.

Oh, the ale itself just some 2-row (about 7# I think), a pound of
crystal and a half pound of carapils.  Maybe two ounces of Willamette
early (do not FWH), and another ounce of them or Fuggles (something mild
and slightly spicy will do) at the 20 minute mark; Irish moss at 15min. 
Play with these to suit your tastes; we don't like the party guests to
get too wasted, so this is not a strong beer.

I wouldn't advise using pumpkin in the secondary, or even in the boil. 
I've seen too many examples done those ways, where the beer looked like
pumpkin soup; very cloudy and way too strong of pumpkin.  They were OK,
but nobody ever wanted a second glass.  All IMHO, of course.

 - - - -

On the subject of breaking carboys, my buddies and I have made carriers
for ours; a plywood octagonal disk top and bottom just slightly bigger
than the carboy, with a centered hole (~4") in the top, and four side
rails with rabbets for the top/bottom disk edges to fit in for
strength.  The top disk sits just above and around the shoulder of the
carboy, capturing it in place when its all screwed together.  The side
rails stick out below the bottom disk an inch, and extend above the top
of the carboy by about an inch.  Pad with adhesive backed foam wherever
glass meets wood.  Very easy to make, fairly easy to clean if sealed
properly.

They're great for hauling them around by the top disk or sides, tipped
by grabbing a side rail with one hand while holding the top with the
other, they can be set upside-down to dry, they safely sit on their
sides by a sink for cleaning, and are somewhat protected against side
impacts, too.  I have no idea why I haven't seen similar ones in use
before; I'll try to post some pics on my website if there's interest.

Happy brewing,
Nate Wahl


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:19:42 -0700
From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: O'Fest

Well,

I don't have enough time to do the March-October lager, but I'm going
to make an O'Fest for about the middle of Oct.  Any of you
lagering/decocting
experts have any comments on the following?

(Recipe for 6 gallons)
4.8 kg 	DWC Munich
0.5 kg 	DWC Aromatic
50g 	DWC Cara-Vienne (72L)
28g 	Styrian Goldings - 45-60' depending on AA%
30g	Tettnanger - 30'
15g	Saaz - 5'
Wyeast 2206

I don't have a convenient source of European Pils malt at the moment, so
I'm just using the Munich.  Is the lack of any Pils whatsoever going to
deprive my beer of anything critical?

I plan to mash in at 40C (104F), check/adjust the pH, then pull 1/3 to
decoct.
Raise the decocted portion to 70C(158F), hold to convert, then raise to a
boil
and hold for 20mins.  Add the decocted fraction back to the main mash,
adjust temp to 60C(140F), hold for 20 mins.  <--- The idea here is to ensure

lots of attenuation and balance out the decocted portion converted at 70C.
Raise the temp to 65C (149F) and hold until converted.  Mash-out (if I feel
like it), runoff, sparge... etc...

Predictions:
OG 	1.056
IBU	24-25

So, as I said, any thoughts?
Cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Can.


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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:21:17 -0600
From: hal <hwarrick at springnet1.com>
Subject: pumpkin ale

We tried a pumpkin ale last year alittle closer
to Halloween, that way fresh pumpkin is
cheap. We used the "Great Pumpkin Ale"
recipe in the "Homebrewers recipe Guide"
by Higgins, Kilgore, & Hertlein. This
book has some great things to try.
 This recipe calls for 8 lbs. of pumpkin
with spices such as nutmeg, allspice, cinn.,
and pumpkin pie spice. Even though they
may sound weird in a beer, once you let it age
for a few weeks out comes some good tasty
beer for the up coming cooler season.
We're getting closer to brewing the Heather ale
we wanted. Going to brew up 5 gal. for
bottles and 5 gal. for the keg and compare.
                                                Hal warrick



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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:00:53 -0400
From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Nathan's mighty old Barley Wine from HBD #3123

Hi Nathan,

First of all, let me say right up front, I hate bottling.  If I had to
bottle every batch (I 
know me) I wouldn't be homebrewing any more.  That being said, I would
guess that 
there are still some yeast in suspension, but you may want to do what the
Belgian 
brewers do and give it a charge of fresh yeast.

Here is a neat idea, split the batch into two or more (maybe five 1
gallon) 
sub-batches and prime them all the same, but give each one a charge of
different 
yeast.  Bottle all the same and put them all away for the same amount of
time.  At 
various intervals (2 wks, 4 wks, 6 wks, etc.) take a bottle from each
sub-batch and 
have a tasting.  That would be a great way to see how the different
yeasts would 
impact the same batch and how the differences grow with aging.  Plus it
would be a 
lot of fun; do it with friends and have them all write their opinions
down to see how 
they change with the aging.

Anyway, you could also put it into a keg and force carbonate it. This way
you don't 
ruin the crystal clear part.

If you use the sub-batch methodology, post your findings, I think it
would make a for 
great experiment write up.  Happy brewing.


Eric Lande
Brewery to be named when I finish it
Doylestown, PA


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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:24:39 -0700
From: "Adam Holmes" <aaholmes at lamar.colostate.edu>
Subject: Fridge insulation

A question for knowledgable fridge people out there.  I have an old fridge
being used as a kegerator.  This thing is not working too well.  At its
coldest setting the lower fridge section can only reach 48 degrees F (I
could have sworn it got a lot colder when I first bought it a few months
ago).  I don't really need to use the upper freezer portion so it is always
empty.  Would I improve the efficiency of my fridge if the freezer was
filled with insulating material such as styrofoam?  What are the cheapest,
easiest ways to improve the efficiency of these old second hand fridges that
most of us use as kegorator/ fermentation chambers?  Obviously any solution
would have to be cheap since I could trash this fridge and get another
second-hand fridge for less than $50.

Adam Holmes
Cell and Molecular Biology
Colorado State University
aaholmes at lamar.colostate.edu



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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:57:25 +1000
From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com>
Subject: BT and Suporting those that Suport Us

Hello All,
I have noted the messages regarding the demise of BT and the apparent
confirmation
of this.  I too am saddened at the loss of BT.  I am a charter subscriber of
BT.

I also subscribe to Zymurgy and Brew Your Own.  It is my opinion that not
subscribing to
these magazines is counterproductive.  I dare say that if more people
subscribed to BT
they would have been able to continue publishing.  I believe that our hobby
is a relatively
small one and because of that, if we want publications, we need to subscribe
and support
them, even if we don't agree with everything the publisher does.  Even if we
think one of
the principles makes too much money or another sucks.  Even if we think a
company
should have kept someone we think they should have kept employed.  Even if
every single
article published is not up to our personal high standard or regards a
subject that is our
personal favorite.  Even if we think that every fact or opinion that we
already know or have
is an absolute waste of paper and money.  I enjoy Zymurgy and BYO, although
neither is
perfect.  I subscribe to both because I usually find something useful, but
also because I
choose to support the organizations that support my hobby.  If we continue
to not support
the few organizations that support the community, we will have no
publications.

I think we will all agree that BT was the best brewing magazine out there.
Most of us think
it had more relevant articles.  Most of us probably suspect that it was
better managed than
the others.  Most of us think that the BT people were great human beings.
(I think these
things also, I was a charter subscriber!).  However, in spite of all these
things they had going
for them, they failed.

A word of advise regarding the HBD filling the BT void, If we continue with
the venom and
hate and the irrelevance the HBD based replacement will fail as well.  We
have seen diatribes
against CP, AHA and GAF that were absolutely personal, hateful and
insulting.  People will
not pay for such a publication.

Pat Babcock says:
>>>Invitations to join the panel will be sent out to those selected shortly.

I hope that Pat (and the Janitors) will seriously consider all sorts of
things when selecting the
panel and that they will be chosen based upon knowledge and balance and that
some editorial
and active moderating of the proposed ezine will be enforced.

Thanks for the time,
Rick Wood

PS.  I have meant to donate to the HBD on a number of occasions.  I would
always get unset
regarding an absolutely inappropriate submission (in my opinion) and would
not send my
donation.  I now see that as hypocritical and will send a donation to the
HBD post haste!



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:31:03 +1000
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au>
Subject: The Brave New Brewery Is Flawed

I was wondering when Steve would jump back in with the Brave New Brewery. So
now we have question #2. I am not at all obsessed with this matter and would
be inclined to say there is no such thing as "art" in brewing. The brews I
make seem to go down very well with the folk who drink them - Jill and her
girlfriends, my next door neighbour, "Big Hairy Jeff" my motorcycling mate
and his pal A.J. Not to mention the odd passer by on the street who I drag
in for a taste testing if they linger too long outside the house. But I am
no artist. And none of those who drink and enjoy my brews are beer judges.
My interest in beer competitions is zero. I enjoy making beer, I enjoy
drinking beer, I am pleased that others seem also to enjoy drinking the beer
I make. If not I kill them! (smiley in here Alan). I enjoy the laborious
task of doing full mash beers and culturing liquid yeasts because that is
how I make the best beer I can. I use as much science as I think necessary
to achieve my goal. Steve's following comment puzzles me:

>The 'art' is
in choosing the goal beer flavor and aroma, and not, to me, in the method of
achieving it.<

My assessment of Steve's interest in brewing based on what I have read in
here is that he is extremely interested in the "method of achieving it" to a
point far beyond what interests me. Once the science has no practical
application, for me it becomes superfluous. Yet here is Steve telling us he
would be happy making SE beers and here am I saying I would not!

The Question was:: Do we care if these breweries fail if  the clone products
are truly
indistinguishable ?  In other words, do you love the traditional beers for
their flavor and color and aroma - or for the tradition behind it ?

 I believe the concept is flawed. The modern beers of today as produced by
the major breweries are drifting further and further from what we as
homebrewers know is real flavour. The majority of world beer drinkers do not
seem to mind this. We are a minority of specialists who are enlightened to
quality in beer. We share this enlightenment with anyone genuinely
interested. The rest can go rot.

I am not sure that Steve knows himself as well as he might think. If he were
to grow a tail I might just give him a good swing, out into space to join
Eric Panther!

Cheers
Phil Yates.






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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:37:18 +1000
From: smorgan at expressdata.com.au
Subject: shoulds and would



evening

it has been interesting of late to see the criticism leveled at the AHA and
Zymurgy and the sad sentiments about the failing of the Brewing Techiques.

Well there is alot of people who are prepared to whinge in the American brewing
community and put forward alot of shoulds but I cannot see any action happening.
For all the criticism labeled on the AHA at least they are out there and doing
it. They are also still in business and have been for some time now. Times may
be tough for the organisation but these things are natural. So for all those
shoulds and woulds put your money where your mouth.

Imagine a place where there is virtually no brewing community, a place where
everything comes out of a can and the last brewing publication most technical
article was hints on stiring in that kilo of sugar. Put yourself in my place and
the criticism towards the AHA sounds like spoilt children not cheerising what
they have.

For those detractors to the AHA the challenge is there for the taking, stand up
and show the courage of your conviction!

kind regards from down under

scotty




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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: Brewing Techniques Magazine Folds


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your schwarzbier for it is truly a
black, dark day...

This was forwarded by a friend. Not sure where she pulled it from, but the
info is pertinent here. For all worried about their prepaid advertising
and subscription monies, it is "traditional" that they are returned. Give
Steve and crew time. These things are never easily done...

My flag will fly at half-mast over this.

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page                 http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:50:51 -0400
From: "Palmer, G. M. (Gabrielle)" 

Eugene, OR - Stephen Mallery, publisher of Brewing Techniques magazine, has
confirmed the rumor that he will no longer publish one of the country's best 
homebrewing rags. "It is with reluctance and great sadness that I announce
the decision to cease publication of Brewing Techniques," writes Mallery.
"This is a decision that has come with great difficulty, but in the end is
the only reasonable decision available for our business."

In a letter that will be sent out to Brewing Techniques subscribers and
advertisers later this week, Stephen writes; "..In the past year we have
battled dwindling readership numbers, a reluctant advertising climate,
increasing bad debt from advertisers unable to pay for ads printed, and
internal management challenges. We have no more room to endure negative cash 
flow, and no immediate means of subsidizing or capitalizing our effort."

Mallery is currently talking with other publishers about the possible sale 
of Brewing Techniques magazine, the Brewers' Market Guide, and the company's 
website. 

"I am proud to have been able to serve this great community of bright,
creative people we call brewers," says Mallery. "I take some measure of
reassurance from the saying that all good things come to an end. Despite the 
financial loss, I feel great satisfaction from the magazine's very human
successes."
- -- 
Cheers!
Gabrielle Palmer



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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:20:26 -0700
From: Jeffrey Donovan <jeffrey at promash.com>
Subject: BT and American Brewer

Hello all! Well I will miss Brewing Techniques greatly along with the rest
of you. It has been a fine source of information and will not be easily
replaced.

However, another one of my favorite brewing magazines, American Brewer, may
be taking up some of the slack. I have been in discussions with publisher
Bill Owens recently, and he has decided to really beef up American Brewer
with more technical articles and features for micro/home brewers. While
American Brewer already has some of the finest writing talent in the
brewing industry, Bill is also contacting some of the regular authors of BT
in the hopes they can now write for American Brewer as well.

I know quite a lot of you read American Brewer, for those that don't you
can check out the website at http://www.americanbrewer.com . If you have
some serious comment for Bill regarding this he can be reached email at
AMBREW at aol.com.

I do have a small affiliation with American Brewer, as I had with Brewing
Techniques, Brew Your Own, etc., blah blah. There, disclaimer out of the way!

On the last note, hope you can all check out a new website dedicated to the
history of Colonial Brewing. I've been working on it for a bit now and you
can find it at: http://www.colonialbrewer.com . Comments/Suggestions welcome.

Cheers!




Jeffrey Donovan
The Sausalito Brewing Co.
ProMash and PilotBrew Software
jeffrey at promash.com
http://www.promash.com




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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:16:00 EDT
From: JPSimo1106 at aol.com
Subject: BT replacement

To the collective:

Pat Babcock asks, regarding a BT replacement:
Any thoughts?

Yes, one.  I'd be willing to fork over my subscription money if there was 
anything that comes close to what BT was delivering (topics applicable to 
both homebrewers and small craft brewers).

John Simonetta
Randolph, MA


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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:22:40 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: "Charles T. Major" <ctmajor at samford.edu>
Subject: Re: Steve's hypo #2

Steve extends his hypo, noting that in his brave new world, 
synth-beers have begun to push "real" breweries out of 
business, and asks whether we would care if such 
traditional breweries went belly-up, given that 
identical-tasting beers are readily available.

I would, though not for the reason he suggests, a nostalgic 
desire for a historical trade to remain.  Does anyone 
really miss coach-building as a trade, or the local 
cobbler or tailor?  

I would have an interest in the survival of such 
traditional breweries for purely self-interested reasons: 
without their business to support the barley-malting and 
hop-growing industries, I wouldn't be able to purchase the 
ingredients for my own brewing easily or economically.

Regards,
Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Alabama



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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:13:50 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: accurate volume measurement

"Charles T. Major" <ctmajor at samford.edu> confesses in passing:

>My water measurements for 5 gal. are terribly inaccurate

This prompts me to write about something that's been on my mind for some
time.  We read all about all kinds of equipment from jet burners to
refractometers, but never a very basic one - liquid volume measures.  Hop
and grain scales, yes, but what do most folks do about measuring water?
Surely you don't use your kitchen 1 cup pyrex measures, do you?

As a baker by trade, I have always had on hand 1 qt., 1/2 gallon and one
gallon hard clear plastic (polycarbamate? they're labeled for recycling as
#7, "other") measuring cups/pitchers, and I don't know why these aren't
sold in homebrew shops.  They are reasonably cheap from restaurant
suppliers.  I've used the one gallon to calibrate marks on my brewing
paddle handle to use as a dip stick so I know how much wort I've collected.
I use them to add mash-in water and the first sparge water before I get the
sparge flowing.  I have Rubbermaid and Cambro - I like the handle design of
the Cambro a little better.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:47:40 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Wheat Malt in Ales

Paul.R.Campbell at is.shell.com of Aber-r-r-r-deen, Scotland asks about wheat
malt and wonders;

>whether it may be of benefit in my Fullers ESB
>clone to add body and head retention?
<snip>
>This would make the grain bill:
>Pale ale malt, crystal malt, flaked maize and wheat malt.

If Fuller's doesn't use it, maybe you don't need it either?  The ever
useful _Real Ale Almanac_ (Roger Protz, CAMRA) lists this for Fuller's ESB
(which you may already know):

OG 1054 ABV 5.5%
Ingredients: Alexis and Chariot pale malt (90%), crystal malt (3%), flaked
maize (7%), caramel.  31 units of colour.  Challenger, Northdown and Target
hops for bitterness,
challenger, Northdown and Goldings for aroma; whole and pellet hops, dry
hopped.  35 units of bitterness.

I wonder if your mash schedule might be a place to make adjustments.  A
straight infusion at maybe 151-153F followed by a short rest at 158-162.
George Fix has reported that this was shown by Scott et al (ASBC Journal,
55-1997) to strongly encourage the formation of glyco-proteins, and that
these are responsible for a beer's foam stand.  He says that he has "found
that the effect is not trivial."  I generally rest at this temperature for
15 minutes before mashing out, and have very good foam stand.

To asnwer your question, I have used 5% wheat malt in British ales with no
clarity problems, although I usually use torrefied wheat when I want wheat.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:49:29 -0500
From: MVachow at newman.k12.la.us
Subject: Brave New Brewery--whatever

The year 2010, the official sentiment of the new millenium--"Whatever"--most
accurately captures  most traditional beer lovers' attitude toward SE clone
beers sold in franchised "brew"pubs throughout the world.  Major
shareholders in Brave New Brewery Co., Inc. (e.g. Anheuser Busch, Archer
Daniels Midland, Sodexho Marriott, Disney) report booming profits, an
indication that the company  has successfully captured the 3% market share
left to that segment of the beer drinking population that prefers
"traditional" styles of beer.  Shareholders mark Mar. 15 the official
company holiday as it was on this auspicious date in 2005 when beer industry
officials reported that for the first time in history, British and German
citizens consumed more Foster's and other light lagers than locally brewed
ales.  This year, the shareholders will meet at the BNB's newest venture, an
Epcot-like brewing theme park at Traquair House (grounds maintenance
personnel all wear lederhosen).  During the rapid demise of the so-called
craft brewing industry, none of the breweries not already owned in part by
larger corporations--Redhook, Shipyard, Pete's, Bridgeport, etc.--could
afford conversion from traditional brewing methods to the new SE technology.
In the early years of the BNB, Co. some devotees of traditional beer styles
boycotted the new SE franchises on the grounds that the beers were not
brewed "traditionally."  This position, identical to the short-lived
reaction to genetically engineered produce and livestock, soon dissipated
as, the homebrewing fad having died out years before, these beer aficionados
had no other access to the beer styles they loved than SE beers, and most
ultimately admitted that the beers were not only identical but more reliably
top quality than the traditionally brewed versions.  A tiny portion of this
group remains dedicated to the boycott, however.  This fractious group
focuses its disapproval on the limited style offerings at BNB franchises
contending that these choices have been dictated by the Anheuser Busch
shareholders.  Crying collusion and conspiracy, this fringe element
reputedly hosts secret "brew-ins" where members homebrew arcane beer styles
using traditional methods.  Homebrewing having been outlawed in all 51
states by 2005, state law enforcement officials and BATF agents have
dedicated small task forces to seeking out these scofflaws.  

Mike 
New Orleans, LA


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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:35:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Alas poor BT we hardly knew Ye...


I spent much time last week reading over the dozen or so back issues of BT
I've recently acquired. I was struck by how much better BT is than say
Zymurgy. If they were beers then I think Zymurgy would be faulted for its
cloying sweetness while BT could justifiably be praised for its balance. I
agree with Steve's comments about the difficult tight-rope act they were
performing between the amateur/homebrew market and their more professional
audience, still they pulled it off quite well in my humble opinion. 

This week I log on only to find that BT is going under! Damn. I don't
understand what happened, they seemed to have a goodly number of subscribers
and looked to have plenty of advertisers. Guess we'll have to wait for the
autopsy results. 

So, what does the failing of BT portend for the future? Is this simply one 
more sign pointing to the fast-approaching apocolypse? Is it time to head for
the shelters yet? (Let's see here, rifle, pistol, assault rifle, ammo, water,
hop pellets, yeast slants, bags of grain, propane, ...) Perhaps this is the
work of the secretive anti-alcohol neo-prohibitionist conspiracy??

Whatever the true cause it seems to me that it can't be good news for the
brewing community. Several editorials in BT bemoaned the continuous decline 
in brewing-related stats, looks like they were justified after all...

 -Alan Meeker

  



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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:36:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale Clone

Someone recently asked for a good Celebration ale clone. Well, I've got one
for you. E-mail me and I'll send you the details...

 -Alan Meeker




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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:44:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Silicates in malt - any info?

I was recently reminded of the fact that there are fairly large amounts of
silicates in barley (in the husk I believe). What role are these compounds
thought to play - structural integrity? How are they incorporated into the
plant? Any agriculture students out there?

 -Alan Meeker




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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:47:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Sources of tannins/polyphenols


I was recently told that the tannins/polyphenols responsible for so-called
"husk astringency" aren't located in the husk at all but are mostly present in
the aleurone layer. Is this true? It seems to contradict everything I've read
about barley malt. Also, isn't this the reason you don't have to be concerned
about husk astringency with, say wheat which has no husk??

Enquiring minds want to know!

 -Alan Meeker




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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:46:08 -0500
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Septic Brew

From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>

>I just inoculated my septic 
>system with enough yeast sludge (the dredges from 14 gallons of brew) to 
>brew a pretty good size batch of brew.   What effect is this going to 
>have, if any?  Should I periodically be flushing a couple of handfuls of 
>hops to keep things balanced?  Will this improve the odor that sometimes 
>is emitted on warm still nights?

>Any thoughts on this?

Paul, I just can't wait to find out what you finally named that brew.  :>))

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:11:45 -0400
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Aerobic starter cultures

To the collective:

I have been interested in establishing an aerobic yeast propogation system
for my starters.  Such a system putatively has the advantage of producing
large amounts of yeast in minimal volumes in minimal time.  Below is an
excerpt from the YeastLink website in which the method and commercial
equipment for this process is described.

> Glucose levels in a all-malt wort are in the approximate range of 1% - 
1.5
> %. Brewer's yeast has a metabolic effect where the yeast will respond to
> glucose levels above 0.4% with or without the presence of oxygen by
> metabolizing the sugar through fermentation rather than respiration.
> If the yeast propagation is aerated and the culture is fed incrementally
> with sterile wort at a rate that the yeast metabolizes the glucose to 
keep
> the level of this sugar in the propagation below 0.4%, the yeast will 
stay
> in a respiratory or growth state. A similar process is utilized in the
> production of baker's yeast although molasses is utilized instead of
> brewer's wort. Under these circumstances, far more energy is available 
to
> the yeast cell than under fermentative conditions and far more yeast is
> produced while less alcohol is produced. The yeast produced from this
> method are in highest growth phase(log phase) and can be pitched at a
> dilution rate of 1:100 or higher. The volume of the propagation medium 
is
> 1% or less of the batch total.

According to the statement above, one must keep the glucose concentration 
of
the culture medium below 0.4% (w/v), so that in designing the medium, one
must know the glucose concentration of the ingredients in the medium.  My
questions in this regard are several, but I shall begin this with only a
few.

1. Is it true that only the glucose concentrations and not the
concentrations of other fermentable sugars determine whether the yeast will
aerobically metabolize the sugar versus ferment it?  (Note the first
sentence in the excerpt above.)

2.  Does one need to also consider the  di-, tri-, and oligo-sachharides
that metabolically yield glucose?

3.  Assuming the concentration of glucose is, indeed, the only important
sugar in question here, what is the glucose concentration of dried malt
extract. (Again, note the first sentence in the excerpt above.)  If glucose
is not the only sugar of importance here, what are the concentrations of 
the
other sugars in dried malt extract?

4.  Would the concentrations of other nutrients (e.g. FAN) become rate
limiting for growth if one merely made up a solution of dried malt extract
to produce a glucose (fermentable sugar) concentration of slightly less 
than
0.4%.  That is, would such a wort need to be supplemented with other
nutrients?
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA

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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:14:39 -0700
From: Michael Isaacs <misaacs at home.com>
Subject: Re: Brave New Brewery - question #2

>Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:11:59 -0400
>From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>

>Q2: Do we care if these breweries fail if  the clone products are truly
>indistinguishable ?  In other words, do you love the traditional beers for
>their flavor and color and aroma - or for the tradition behind it ?

A good question. These clone products may be truly indistinguishable by 
taste and appearance but are not the same product. The brewer, location, 
name and tradition behind the final product are as much a part of a 
beer's character as the flavor, color and aroma. You cannot separate the 
two ends of the aesthetic.

Would Ankor Shteam give you the same satisfaction as buying the real 
thing even if it tasted like Maytags product? I think not. I, like many,
 
enjoy supporting my local community and take pride in local tradition.I 
am very lucky in that I can buy "local" products and still get great wine 
and brandy from the nearby Napa Valley as well as a fantastic everyday 
beer and vodka from San Francisco.  Add to that gin, as  Anchor Brewery 
now produces one named Junipero.

I would be very dissapointed to learn that the brewers of these 
traditional beers dissapeared. I am looking forward, however, to 
taste-tronixs  other fine products.

Mike

Son of a Son of a Aler, misaacs at bigfoot.com
Searchin' for my "Lost Shaker of Alt"
Jolly Mon Brewery, San Ramon, CA



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Date: 31 Aug 1999 09:28:05 -0000
From: colorart at spiritone.com
Subject: Thanks!

Subject:     Thanks!
Sent:        8/31/99 9:15 AM
To:          post@hbd.org

Thanks to those who commented with helpful insights about the use of 
pumpkin...

 -Matt


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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:20:34 -0700
From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: glass carboys 

Every since reading a post a year or so ago about a brewer cutting
himself quite badly, I've carried my carboys around in milk crates.
I'm guessing that this is an international milk storage item.  They
are plastic, stackable crates which hold (I believe) 9, 2 litre cartons
of milk (2 qt in the US).  A little bigger than a 23L (6 US gal) carboy,
they have handles which make it easier to lift the carboy and gaps
which allow for rinse water and errant beer to run out.  Best of all,
the carboy is quite well protected.  I leave it in the crate right 
through fermentation... remember the guy who set his newly crafted
stout down on a small pebble and watched his efforts seep out all
over his basement floor?

cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Canada.


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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:39:03 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Koelsch

A few days ago I wrote about a wonderful Koelsch that Pat Babcock & I
had had the pleasure to judge.

Well, on Sunday I was on the BOS panel for the same competition
(Michigan State Fair -- http://hbd.org/michigan), and of course there
was that wonderful Koelsch.  After I got through telling the audience
what a wonderful beer it was, Larry Bell (owner of Kalamazoo Brewing
Co., the oldest brewery in Michigan) got the mike.

He said, essentially "yes, it is a great beer, but... " (at this point
I winced) "it's missing an essential yeast character that I find in
the real thing."

Well, there ya go.  I've not had the real thing, at least not fresh.
I've had a couple of canned Koelsches but that's it.  The beer in
question matched the style description, and was a wonderful beer, to
boot.  But it was apparently not quite there.  As Larry said "It's a
great *American* Koelsch."

(BTW, brewer who made the Koelsch, Rick Georgette, went on to win our
equivalent of the Ninkasi award for having seven beers that took
ribbons.  And that's in only 12 categories, not 24.)

Live to learn, learn to live.

=Spencer


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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:13:05 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Patents

Patents can be found online at http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/

You can view the individual pages online, or you can download the
entire patent in various formats for a nominal charge.  For example, I
tried going for the PDF format of the Labatt (ice beer) patent, and they wanted
$3.00 for it.

The head page for the ice beer patent is
http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05695795__

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:19:20 -0500
From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu>
Subject: Re: accurate volume measurement

Jeff Renner wrote:
> 
> Surely you don't use your kitchen 1 cup pyrex measures, do you?
> 
No, I have a 2 qt Pyrex measuring cup that I use, though I'm not
particularly careful to fill it exactly to the 2 qt mark in measuring
out gallons.  I used to use a 1 gal jug, but there was no calibration
mark.  For mash/sparge water, I have a stainless 5 gal kettle marked
(who knows how accurately) at 1 gal increments that I fill to the
appropriate gallon mark and top up with how ever many extra
pints/quarts I need with the 2 qt measuring cup.

Since I use different measures that I've never bothered to calibrate
against each other, not having an accurate known standard, I just
recognize that  my measurements aren't very precise and live with a
little uncertainty.  I've never bothered to calibrate the 6 gal carboy
I use for a fermenter, either.  I know about how far up 5 gal comes,
and as long as I'm in the ballpark I don't worry about a precise
volume.

Thanks for bringing up the question--I've wondered how others measure
liquid volumes but haven't asked.

Tidmarsh Major, Birmingham, Alabama
"For we must drink as we brew, and that is but reason." 
- --The Second Shepherd's Play


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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:22:55 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: My no-sparge experience/data series 

Your numbers correspond pretty nicely with a much rougher set of
experiments that I did in 1994.  Here's an excerpt from my original
posting (HBD 1444, subject: Attention mathemeticians).

It's always nice to have independent confirmation of experimental
results.

How to read the table: the first column is quarts of water per pound
of grain.  The second is the specific gravity of the run-off in
"points" (e.g. 105 means 1.105).  The third column is quarts of
run-off collected per pound.  The final column is your extract
efficiency in pt-lb/gallon.  These are pre-boil figures, so if you
boil down from 6 to 5 gallons, you'll get another 15% or so (e.g.,
1.105 -> 1.120, which I actually got in my most recent "bombastic beer"
attempt).

        qt/lb   SG      collect extract
        1       105      .4     10
        1.25     90      .65    15
        1.5      80      .9     18
        2        60     1.4     21

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:02:31 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Licorice - Eureka!

Aha!  I found it.  I knew I'd seen it.  In good ol' _Real Ale Almanac_
(Roger Protz, CAMRA), this for Shepherd Neame's Original Porter:

OG 1047 ABV 5.2%

Ingredients:  Halcyon pale malt (77%), chocolate matlt (6%), xrystal malt
(7%), cereal adjuncts (10%), and Spanish liquorice.  70 units of color.
Kent Target and Goldings hops pellets.  33 units of bitterness.

So it appears we have at least one unequivocal citation of licorice used in
brewing in England, and it doesn't seeem to be a malt concentrate.
Licorice is mentioned in the tasting notes as "Nose: powerful aromas of ...
liquorice" and "Nose: ...hint of sweet liquorice."

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:10:36 EDT
From: JYANDERS at aol.com
Subject: Fermentation Cooling

The recent thread concerning evaporative cooling, wicks and misters got me 
thinking about efficient ways to keep my fermenting beer cool. Since I live 
in Phoenix, Arizona, this is a very important topic to me. 

In the past, I would place the carboy in a large tub of water, cover the 
carboy with a tee-shirt, and place 3-5 frozen 20 oz. bottles of ice in the 
tub every 12 hours or so. This method kept the carboy to a maximum of 72-74 
degrees during the summer, but I did notice temperature swings of up to 6 
degrees a day. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that a smaller 
temperature range would be better. So I came up with a modification.

I took an old plastic transfer tube and formed it into the shape if a lasso. 
I plugged the end on the loop and took an extended paper clip and heated it 
in a candle. I then placed holes, roughly an inch apart, all around the loop 
part of the tube. I placed the loop over the neck of the carboy and ran the 
straight part of the tube to a small pump I have for circulating ice water 
through my immersion WC. Now I have a nice wet wick all the time. I am still 
experimenting with other modifications, such as a fan, different wick 
material and various ice additions, but so far, its held a pretty constant 
68-70 degrees.

JMA


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---