---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Esters/Yeast Growing/Liquid Measure/BMW (AJ)
  foil caps (HOCKESIN)
  Duh! Where've I been? (Bob Sheck)
  Sour Mash; Ice Beer; Millenium Beer (Ted McIrvine)
  Re: Maple syrup brew? (JYANDERS)
  A Big Hairy CAP? ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  Re: wyeast and white labs (Miguel de Salas)
  Last of the millenium??? ("John Stegenga")
  Licorice; An interesting reference (ThomasM923)
  Fridge Stuff (Kevin or Darla Elsken)
  Caramel flavor for FESB (Nate Wahl)" <cruiser at cros.net>
  Tuns of soybeans / ReCAP (psuedo) (Crossno Clan)
  RE: Maple Syrup Mead ("Frank J. Russo")
  Maple Syrup Brew? (Pete Diltz)
  Re: Fullers ESB (Jeff Renner)
  Demise of Brewing Techniques Pondered? ("Mr. Joy Hansen")
  RE: carboy volume markers (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: Drilling a fridge (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Bottling pLambic ("Steven Jones")
  Caramel in Fuller's ESB (Brad McMahon)
  RE: Supporting the brewing infrastructure (Bob Sheck)
  Legality of homebrewing (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  HBD PALE ALE Experiment (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Pumpkin ale recipe (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Re: Soybean Beer (BillPierce)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:59:40 -0500
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Esters/Yeast Growing/Liquid Measure/BMW

Arnold Chickenshorts presumes that he has upset me and then proceeds to
apologize. "Annoy" would be a better word than "upset" and though the
apology is obviously insincere it is accepted because the annoyance was
minor and the perceived upset caused Arnold to post information which I
feel actually contributed something to HBD. Let's remember that what I
originally posted (i.e. what is in the classic brewing texts, and in the
experience of  most small commercial brewers and even the more
experienced home brewers) is that inadequate oxygen supplied to pitching
yeast will result in increased levels of esters in the beer.
Interestingly enough this well known fact was recently reiterated by
Horst Dornbush with respect to ethyl hexanoate in  particular in his
article on lagering in the last Zymurgy. While the source of some esters
may be substances from hop oil clearly yeast metabolism has an effect on
the overall ester spectrum of the beer.

Now are hop oil components really major contributors  to the ester
profile in beer? I think that depends on the beer. Clearly in an  amyl
acetate laden Weizen where hopping levels are so low that there just
isn't much oil they aren't and the same would be true in a home brewed
ale reeking of ethyl acetate because of poor oxygenation. But if the
beer is clean because of proper yeast management  I think they could be.
I visited Rooster's in Harrogate this January and I think I posted that
experience here at that time. During this visit I tasted a group of
beers all prepared from very similar worts pitched with the same yeast
and fermented under the same conditions. The difference between the
beers was in the hopping (Sean uses several hop varieties in different
proportions in his ales - if  memory is failing me here, please jump in
Sean) and the resulting ester spectra were amazing in their diversity
and subtlety. These beers are very clean so we are not talking about
ethyl acetate, ethyl hexanoate or amyl acetate but rather pleasant,
complex, berry- like esters. In particular I remember lychee because
I've never tasted lychee in beer before or since.

Arnold's assertion that material obtained from brewing texts must, for
that reason alone, be wrong is sheer sophistry. This particular idee
fixe was the trademark of another sometime  contributor to HBD who also
hid behind anonymity - hmmm.  As I mentioned in a post about a week ago
the more experience I gain in brewing (and, happily, I expect to be
struggling up this learning curve for the rest of my life) the more I
appreciate what those classics have to offer. Yes they have their warts
(in fact M&BS appears to confuse ethyl caproate [hexanoate] with ethyl
caprylate [octanoate] in one passage). Perhaps it is the increased
experience which enables the reader to interpolate through these errors.
Perhaps as Arnold's thinking matures he'll be able to appreciate the
value of these books. When he learns to put these things (the journals,
his own experiences, experiments, the classics..) in perspective he'll
be qualified to graduate to long pants.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* *

With respect to the questions on growing yeast - based on my experience:

Yes, it is important to supply FAN. There are several products on the
market which make this very easy to do.

No, you needn't worry about Crabtree effect. Maybe the yeast won't
respire but they will use the oxygen to produce biomass (sterols, fats
leading to healthy cells leading to reproduction). Perhaps they won't do
it quite so efficiently but I don't think the loss of efficiency is
important in the homebrewing application.

By supplementing FAN with a nutrient you can grow a lot of yeast in a
day or two in a broth prepared from DME if you supply oxygen as rapidly
as the yeast consume it. The best way to do this is use a DO meter and
hit the broth with O2 as soon as the DO gets down to a couple of mg/L. A
more practical method is to pitch, oxygenate and then wait until
pinprick bubbles are seen at the surface of the broth. Then oxygenate
again and wait for pinprick bubbles etc. Once the cell mass gets
appreciable you will be oxygenating every half hour or so. Knowing this
you can just give the broth a blast every half hour without waiting for
bubbling to start. Depending on how much yeast you need you can keep
doing this until the SG of the broth is quite depleted and then
supplement with more sugar and nutrient or allow the yeast to finish,
decant the broth and replenish or just decant the broth and pitch the
paste. It's a good idea to feed the paste with the first runnings from
the wort chiller before pitching.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * *
Dave in Seattle was surprised at the inaccuracy of his Erlenmeyer
flasks. If you look carefully you will probably see that the scale is
labeled "approximate volumes". Also don't forget that the density of
water changes quite a bit as it warms. A container marked to hold a
gallon contains only 0.9615 gallon if the water is near boiling
temperature.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * *

Thanks to Phil for the clarification. This A.J. would never have been
caught dead on a Hog, preferring to purr about town and country on a BMW
R75/5 in days gone by (still have it rusting in the garage).

* * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * *

I'll be out of touch for a week - business trip.



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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:30:57 EDT
From: HOCKESIN at aol.com
Subject: foil caps

I'm trying to locate someone who may know a supplier for foil-caps, (similar 
to those found on some champagne bottles - SHINY & BRIGHT GOLD). If anyone 
has any info please e-mail me or post to the list. Thanks!


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 00:27:15 -0400
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: Duh! Where've I been?

RE:
From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com>
Subject: O'fest decoction recipe

I always interpreted the term decoction as drawing off
the wort and heating it up, then re-introducing it to the mash tun. 

What I get from Rich's post is that he scoops up a bunch of grains,
heats them up and plops 'em back into the mash.

Where've I been all these years?


Bob Sheck

bsheck, me-sheck, abednigo! Greenville, NC 
email:bsheck at skantech.net or see us at:
http://www.skantech.net/bsheck/
(252)830-1833


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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 01:24:24 -0700
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Sour Mash; Ice Beer; Millenium Beer

I was quite surprised to read a recent post that "nobody sour mashes
beer" followed by a definition of sour mashing that was basically that
of beer blending.  The great lambic brewers would be even more
surprised.  And I know that I'm far from the only brewer who sets aside
a a pound or two to mash around 150 for a few days to add sourness to
Berliner Weiss, lambics and other beers.

Someone else recently asked about a Millenial beer.  Mine has been aging
for about 9 months and has almost 16 months to go before the millenium. 
I made an icebock inspired by Samichlaus.  For 5 gallons, I used 11 lbs
of DWC Munich Malt, 3 lbs of DWC Pils, 3 lbs light dry malt extract with
a double decoction mash.  It was hopped with 4 oz of Perle (boil) and 2
oz Hallertauer (aroma) and fermented with Bavarian yeast.  After the
secondary fermentation, I froze the keg and racked and am continuing to
cold condition at 34 degrees.  The hops should come into balance by
2001.

The only problem is if I enter this in a competion, do I enter it as a
Barleywine or as an Icebock?

Cheers
Ted

- -- 
Dr. Ted McIrvine     McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com
College of Staten Island/CUNY
http://www.csi.cuny.edu/academia/programs/mus.html


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Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 03:22:12 EDT
From: JYANDERS at aol.com
Subject: Re: Maple syrup brew? 

Jason Birzer asks:

>Something my girlfriend was asking me about was whether it was
>practical to make a fermented beverage out of Maple Syrup.  I'm not 
>talking about a beer, but something like Mead (fermented honey).  

I haven't heard of anything being made strictly from Maple Syrup, but in 
Gregg Smith's book "Beer in America - The Early Years 1587-1840" he does 
mention a concoction made in colonial Georgia called "demon rum". Seems they 
fermented then distilled molasses into the drink of choice for that colony. I 
would imagine someone could do the same thing with Maple Syrup, but they 
might be a bit outside of the law.

JMA


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Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 17:43:19 +1000
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au>
Subject: A Big Hairy CAP?

A note for Jeff. Not the big, not the hairy, not the mate of A.J. Jeff.
Just Jeff. I'm not going to make any mention of motorcycling. Not going to
mention that I am sickened to here of A.J. getting about Yorkshire on a
chopped Harley (how dreadfully inappropriate). I'm not even going to tease
Arnold about his Lambretta. Nor will I ask the question on everybody's lips
"Why does Steve A keep mentioning the Bavarian boys dressed in Lederhosen"?
Is he trying to drive Kyle Druey into a frenzy?

I'm not going to mention any of these things because tonight is the grand
opening of my Classic Australian Pilsener. This is the one I made with corn
in the form of polenta along the lines of recent information from Jeff on
the matter. I mashed it and boiled it before adding it to the rest of the
grist in the mash tun. I used our classic Pride of Ringwood hops along with
Saaz in the form of First Wort Hopping and Dry Hopping. The first person to
go down this track that I know of was Regan Pallandi who made a beautiful
drop ( though Jeff thought a little bitter). I did mention to Jeff that
after the taste of sheep (or cold mutton) as Doc Panther would have put it,
us Aussie's need a very bitter beer. I have saved a bottle for Regan, who
was kind enough to allow me to help him drink the second half of his keg
(though I still am not convinced there was that much in there before I
arrived) and the Scurrilous Mr Barnsley of England with his mate Sean have
laid claim to the other two bottles. The rest is in my keg and Jeff I just
can't bring myself to send this to you in Michigan (besides, Fouch would
probably intercept it). I'll draw off a bottle and send it over when Eric is
not watching. BTW, if you think Arnold would look ridiculous on his
Lambretta, you should have seen the photos of Eric on his Hodaka Wombat! But
I won't even be tempted to talk about that either.

This creation, with the help of those who pointed me this way, in my opinion
is a real beauty. This is the Mudgee Mud I was hoping to recreate, without
the "bloody awful" tag. The one I was to bring to our Christmas party which
nobody bothered to organize....lousy lot!

One question for Pat Babcock before I go. Is Al K carrying out time warp
experiments? He seems to be talking to us from a few months back. I know he
has just had three new bods placed upon him and such behaviour could be
attributable to this. But now Jack S is responding to him. Is Jack in the
experiment also? Does this mean I could be really nasty to both of them and
expect no nasty return flaming for at least three months? Doc Pivo would
have been more than a little excited about an experiment like this!

Cheers
Phil Yates.



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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:20:47 +1000
From: Miguel de Salas <mm_de at postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: wyeast and white labs


It sounds a bit scary when people call others to say no to Wyeast. Some may
fail to realise that there are homebrewers outside the US, and for us
downunder, at least in the town where I live, Wyeast is the ONLY liquid
yeast, thus the only source of different yeasts.
As it happens, and has been pointed out, other brands just don't travel
well. This makes it unlikely we'll get others. 
Besides, some  people commenting on the fact that if other brands go, we'll
get 50 yeasts that taste the same fail to acknowledge the fact that for a
long time WYeast was the only commercial producer of liquid yeast cultures
catering for homebrewers. If they didn't all taste the same back then, why
should they do so in the future. Many brands of yeast in fact offer strains
which originated from the same breweries, and produce similar tasting beer.
>From that point of view, they are redundant.

But I ramble. My point being, if Wyeast succumbs to a boycott, homebrewers
unlikely enough not to live in the US may find themselves without a source
of good quality yeasts.

Cheers
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Miguel de Salas

School of Plant Science,
University of Tasmania,
PO Box 252-55, Sandy Bay, Hobart
Tasmania, Australia, 7001.

Dept home-page:
http://www.utas.edu.au/docs/plant_science/

My Homepage:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~miguel/


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Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:16:48 -0400
From: "John Stegenga" <bigjohns at mindspring.com>
Subject: Last of the millenium???


IN HBD 3128 Jim writes:
>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:23:36 -0500
>From: "Jim Hodge" <jdhodge at worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: 1999 Spooky Brew Review Homebrew Competition

>The Chicago Beer Society announces its last homebrew competition of the
>Millenium, the 1999 Spooky Brew Review to be held Saturday, October 30,
1999
>at O'Grady's Brewery and Pub, Arlington Heights, IL.

Damn!  Sorry to hear it.  You guys not having a competition next year?  Gee
that sucks.  Oh well.

For information on when the Millenium ends, go here:

http://www.usno.navy.mil/home.html

Ignorance is no excuse of the truth.




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Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:30:15 EDT
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Licorice; An interesting reference

I wonder if anyone else found this gem of a reference while searching for 
info concerning licorice...

The Household Cyclopedia
http://members.xoom.com/mspong/

It is the complete text from a book published in 1881. It contains a lot of 
information on a lot of subjects, one of which is the subject of brewing. 
This would be of interest to anyone fascinated with the methods and recipes 
of the past. Check it out.

I found a recipe in The Household Cyclopedia that uses licorice root and 
Spanish licorice. It is still unclear to me what Spanish licorice is but I 
imagine it could be a "processed" form of licorice like the candy we are all 
familiar with. The fact that the root of the licorice plant contains a 
sweetener (glycerrhizin) with is 50 times as sweet as table sugar gives some 
insight on it's use. If the recipe I mentioned above is scaled down to a 5 
gallon batch, the amount of licorice root added would be about 4 ounces. 
Although it seems that heat breaks down glycerrhizin into glycerrhettic acid, 
which is not as sweet, adding four ounces of something much sweeter than 
sucrose to a 5 gallon batch would certainly sweeten it up quite a bit. I 
would imagine that this sweetener is unfermented by yeast. So it seems that 
licorice root was used not only as a flavoring, but (primarily?) as a 
sweetener, not unlike adding lactose to a beer.

BTW, I found the information on licorice root in On Food and Cooking, by 
Harold McGee, Collier Books, Macmillan Publishing Company.

Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ


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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:48:30 -0400
From: Kevin or Darla Elsken <kelsken at adelphia.net>
Subject: Fridge Stuff

A couple of recent postings have been about refrigerators, one of things
I actually feel I know a little about.

Adam Holmes in # 3125 was having problems with his refrigerator not
getting cold.  It was already mentioned to add mass to the inside of the
unit, i.e. jugs of water in the freezer and fresh food compartments. 
This mass provides a great 'heat sink' to absorb energy from the air to
keep it cool.  The result should be less cycling of the unit and more
consistent temperatures.  Also be sure to check those door gaskets,
especially at the bottom where it is difficult to see.  If these
suggestions don't improve the situation, write again, there are still
some other more esoteric possibilities.

In #3128, Thomas Hamann asks how to know how much volume he can add to
his refrigerator without overtaxing the cooling system.  Well I am sure
there it can be calculated, but I doubt there is enough information
available about your particular unit to do it (I feel certain someone
will try to prove me wrong here).  My gut feeling is that you could
easily double or triple the existing volume, if you are careful to:

	1. Build a well insulated and well SEALED expansion box.

	2. Keep it full (see note above)

Another consideration is what temperature you are planning to keep the
expanded unit.  Obviously keeping it a "cellar temps" (50 to 55 F or so)
will be much easier on it that if it is always at "lager temps", 32 to
35 F.

In the same issue Dave Thomson wants to know about drilling the side of
his refrigerator.  It used to be the side of the fridge had little in it
besides the insulation.  With the 1993 Energy Consumption Standards most
manufacturers now use part of the "hot loop" (condenser) to heat the
front flange of the cabinet to avoid sweating.  The used to use electric
heaters.  If your unit has a switch on it that says something like, turn
it to this position to reduce sweating (heater on) or turn it to this
position to save energy (heater off) then the fridge falls in the latter
category.  Anyhow, units with the hot loops in the flange sometimes
route the tubing in the sidewall.  Drill through that, the fridge is
dead!

My suggestion: if you unit has a plastic liner on the inside, take a
sharp knife (box cutting knife) point and carefully poke it through the
liner. Slice out a small area of the liner (the plastics are very thin,
but be careful with the knife).  If it is a plastic liner then there
will be polyurethane insulation in the wall cavity.  This can be dugout
with a screwdriver till you hit the outside wall.  All clear?  Drill
away!

If your unit has a metal liner on the inside, then drill a small pilot
hole, but try to stop the drill as soon as you are through the inner
liner.  If it is a old unit it may have fiberglass in the wall.  At any
rate, poke around and try to make sure there is nothing in the way.  If
it does have fiberglass insulation it is a pretty old fridge, and I
doubt there is much in the walls anyway.

That's it.  More than anyone wants to know about refrigerators.

Kevin Elsken
Little Boy Brewery


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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:55:10 -0400
From: "(Nate Wahl)" <cruiser at cros.net>
Subject: Caramel flavor for FESB

Collective,

Here's an idea that works for getting caramel-ish flavor.  I found this
on for a recipe given me to duplicate Traquair House Ale, which it does
very well.  This may help with an FESB clone, although I have yet to try
it in one.

Basically, you take the first gallon of runnings into a separate pot,
and rapidly boil it down to about a pint or so.  Return that to your
main kettle, then "deglaze" the pot, to use cooking parlance, by putting
a pint of water into it, stir briskly, bring it to boiling, and dump
into the main kettle also.  Do your regular boil in parallel, this stuff
ends up going in at about the half hour mark.

The first part carmelizes some sugars in the wort, and the second part
gets all of the good carmelized stuff off of the pot, and makes it very
easy to clean.

Be sure to stir the small pot continuously; you don't want to burn
anything, just reduce it.

In the THA clone, it gave a marvelous caramel taste and thickness. 
Simply amazing.  Even most Lite-o-phobes like the stuff, even tho' they
don't think it's beer!  You may want to use only a half-gallon for an
FESB, as I don't recall it having that strong of a flavor.

Oh, I would suggest that since this can darken your wort considerably,
you may want to go to lighter versions of any caramel or crystal malts
in your recipe, to compensate.

I hope this helps.

Nate Wahl
Oogie Wa Wa (Old Zulu drinking salute!)


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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 16:27:00 -0500
From: Crossno Clan <Crossno at tnns.net>
Subject: Tuns of soybeans / ReCAP (psuedo)

On 3 Aug. I bottled my soy(led) CAP (pseudo).  Sent a couple of bottles 
off to an HBD participant see comments below.  The recipe was a CAP but 
instead of corn used flaked soy (12%) and rice (8%).

"We were both really surprised by how light it was!  I figured that the 
soy would have given it quite a bit of body, but I guess those proteins 
are the wrong kind to add body to beer.  Really light, really nice.  
The aroma was exactly what I expected from a CAP, and even seemed a 
little corny (maybe the soy added that touch?).

The flavor was certainly in the realm of light pilsner beers, but I see
what you mean about the odd flavor contribution of the soy.  Couldn't
exactly label it, but there was something there right in the middle of
the
tongue that caused part of me to say, "yep, that's it." "

Everyone I shared it with seemed to like it. But there is a "different
flavor."

With a month in the bottle the Windsor yeast bottles are past their
prime.  
I know I should have thrown them in the refrigerator sooner.  The EDME
was 
harsher at first but now has mellowed.

Or does the ale yeast just make this a bunch of CACA?

Glyn Crossno
Estill Springs,  TN
I'll see your point, and raise you a line.


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Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:07:26 -0400
From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com>
Subject: RE: Maple Syrup Mead

"Jason Birzer" wrote: Subject: Maple syrup brew?

 .... whether it was practical to make a fermented beverage out of Maple
Syrup.
I'm not talking about a beer, but something like Mead (fermented honey).  I
know that maple syrup is highly fermentable,....


I have not tried to ferment Maple Syrup, at least not yet.  A member of my
homebrew club has.  So I asked him about it.  He loves the sweeter brews.
His mead's have a sweetness to them.  When he tried maple syrup & honey he
used a Champaign yeast.  This created a VERY DRY brew.  For his taste it was
awful, others liked it.  Since then he has not tried it again.  So a
recommendation from someone who does not know what he is talking about, is
if you try this then use a low attenuating yeast, a wine yeast should be
fine.  Sorry but I can not give you a recipe.  But if you do like I have in
the past, go to the cat's meow, locate a mead recipe and just begin
substituting.

Good Luck
Frank
Havelock, NC
FJRusso at Coastalnet.com



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Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 17:23:39 -0500
From: Pete Diltz <pdiltz at plutonium.net>
Subject: Maple Syrup Brew?

In HBD #3127, Jason asked:

>whether it was practical to make a fermented 
<beverage out of Maple Syrup.  
>Has anyone on here tried something like this?  
>How did it turn out? 


Jason, I have made two 1 gallon batches of Maple Syrup
wine..1/3 syrup to 2/3 water is a good place to start (O.G.
of about 1.120)

I used Lalvin #K-1118 yeast for the first batch, it
fermented well (F.G. 1.002), but has a looong-lasting
Listerene aroma that still lingers after 3 years.....the
batch from earlier this year with Lalvin #K-1116 has a lot
less of the medicinal character. I would guess that Dick
Dunn (of the Mead Lovers Digest) would be able to add a lot
of good, solid info concerning yeast choice....

Grade "A" syrup is lighter in color and taste, and seems to
be a little more fermentable....I would recommend Grade "B",
(for sweetener as well as for fermenting), it is darker,
richer, less processed.

Be prepared for a long fermenting, clearing, and aging
process if you use wine yeasts, as I did. Both my batches
have turned out extremely clear, with a lovely amber color,
the Grade B batch being somewhat darker. They have a
pronounced maple aroma and taste. 

Good Luck, and keep us posted.

Pete Diltz
Trial & Error Brewery
Troy Mills, Iowa
(somewhere between Al K. and Jethro)


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Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:09:25 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Fullers ESB

Paul Campbell  <Paul.R.Campbell at is.shell.com> asks:

>Does anyone know anything about the characteristics of Alexis and Chariot
>pale malt. I've seen Chariot described as a *pilsner* malt, and know of
>a few beers using Alexis (a modern pale ale malt). Is the Alexis anything
>special, or just easier to farm? I think I might try some pilsner malt in
>my next attempt, just to see what happens.

You are confusing *barley* varieties and *malt* types.  You can more or
less malt any variety of barley to any type of malt, although high protein
types may not make very good ale or continental-type lager malts.  I don't
know the details of those malting varieties of barley.  Check American
Malting Barley Association, Inc. links
http://www.ambainc.org/linx/index.htm or Master Brewers Association of the
Americas http://www.mbaa.com/ and you might be able to track down details.
I can't find it in my bookmarks, but I think there is also a British
Malters Assn. or something like it.

Pale ale malts are typically more highly modified and kilned higher and
perhaps following a different schedule than Pilsner malts.

BTW, after some further reading I'm pretty well convinced that caramel
doesn't add any flavor.


 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 05:58:41 -0400
From: "Mr. Joy Hansen" <joytbrew at patriot.net>
Subject: Demise of Brewing Techniques Pondered?

Awakened at 4 AM by the blaring of television's early morning profiteering
rhetoric, the advertisement lauded the benefits of web advertising.  This
struck a cord in that one of the elements of the Brewing Technique's demise
was non-payment of advertising and possibly the lack of paid advertising to
maintain the publication.

A motorcycle magazine "Motorcycle Consumer News" suspended ALL advertising
more than four years ago and seems to continue publication.  Suspended all
advertising and high cost color printings.  It still provides some of the
best written reviews of products and technical tips and fixes.  Much like BT
could  become with different management outlook?

I often wonder if BT considered publishing at a web site for a subscription
cost.  Surely the cost of maintaining a web site is much cheaper than the
publication printing and mail distribution of the magazine.

Only my two-cents worth.  I don't have enough computer/web knowledge to know
if an electronic publication would be profitable, practical, or legal.  As
far as a refund of the subscription fee, better that the small amount stay
with BT.  A very small token of appreciation for the many years of pleasant
reading and practical articles about brewing.

Brewing Techniques will be sorely missed by Joy"T"Brew!




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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:21:29 -0500 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: carboy volume markers

From: "Bayer, Mark A" <Mark.Bayer at JSF.Boeing.com>

>i used to have problems with the marks getting wiped off when the carboy
got
>wet on the outside during washing.  then i applied scotch tape over the
>volume marks, and now the volume marks stay on a lot longer.  the tape
>eventually peels off (after 3+ years - maybe some of the more heavy duty
>clear tape would stay on longer), but the marks stay dry and last a lot
>longer than with no tape.

What works for me is to use plastic electrical tape.  It's waterproof, and
sticks onto a dry glass surface.  I have run through many cleaning cycles
with the tape still fully sealed on and intact.  My tape was about 1/2 inch
wide, so I just guestimated the center line.  To be more accurate, I guess
one could cut the tape to 1/4 inch width, or cut small arrows, or chevrons
at the ends to serve as pointers.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:39:06 -0500 
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Drilling a fridge

From: "Dave Thomson" <dlt at ici.net>

>I am in the process of setting up my extra fridge for kegging.  I want to
>drill a hole in the side for my co2 line.  I call the local repair shop and
>they said "well drill a small hole and see what happens"  Yeah thanks guys!
>Anyway it a Hotpoint fridge with the freezer on top there are no visible
>coils on the back of the fridge. Is it possible to drill a hole?  The
fridge
>is also used to hold food for large gatherings and as extra freezer space,
>thus my wife would be rather unhappy if I destroy the fridge!

It's Sunday morning, the coffee is hot and good, it's to darn hot outside,
so what the heck, I'll take a shot at this one.

First, if you do drill a small test hole as suggested above, the method to
prevent drilling too far past the outer wall is to use a drill stop.  Simply
cut a piece of metal or plastic tubing to slide onto the drill bit, with
just enough  protruding drill bit to clear the wall thickness.

Second, if your fridge happens to have an ice maker, you can get a sneak
preview by temporarily removing the ice maker, you should find a square hole
hidden by the ice maker, through which the electrical wires pass to the
motor, etc.  Now you can poke around through this hole and determine what is
there.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu



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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:16:00 -0400
From: "Steven Jones" <stjones1 at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Bottling pLambic

Greetings, all.

I have a pFramboise in the carboy (about 18 months) that
has a thick pellicle and I'm getting ready to bottle it.
I  can force carbonate, but I'd rather bottle condition
for  more authenticity, and I'm concerned about pellicle
formation in the bottle.

I thought about pasteurizing by raising to 150F for an
hour, cooling, pitching a neutral yeast and adding
priming sugar. Has anyone seen any mention of this
anywhere? Anyone have any comments?

Steve
State of Franklin Homebrewers
http://home.att.net/~stjones1/index.htm







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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 00:53:37 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Caramel in Fuller's ESB

William Frazier asked, and many people pondered, about caramel flavours
in Fuller's ESB.
I don't recall having ESB when I was in the UK, I did however drink lots
of London Pride, but my palate was still learning the basics.

I have read that some people detect diacetyl as caramel flavour.
Perhaps this is what you are tasting? 

Brad


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Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 01:04:05 -0400
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: RE: Supporting the brewing infrastructure

I always operate on the premise:

If you're not part of the solution, then you're
part of the problem.

Zymurgy mag helped me become a successful home brewer.
I got a lot of knowledge out of the mag, and then found
the HBD. While never joining the AHA, or other major orgs,
I have continued to brew and have started judging in several
comps along the way, and my association with BJCP certified
folks has really boosted my understanding of this craft.

What a membeership in AHA costs for a year I probably piss
away in a week sampling commercial 'craft' brewed or other
intoxicants, so I think I'm going to support them with a 
subscription.

"Lead, follow, or get the hell out of my way"
(someone's quote that seems relevant now. . . )



Bob Sheck

bsheck, me-sheck, abednigo! Greenville, NC 
email:bsheck at skantech.net or see us at:
http://www.skantech.net/bsheck/
(252)830-1833


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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:34:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Legality of homebrewing

I'm still sifting through a stack of BT magazines. 

In the Jan 1997 issue there is a map of the U.S. showing the legal status of
homebrewing for each state.

By this map there are 12 states where homebrewing was illegal and 7 states
where the laws are "unclear." 

Since this time I know that at least Tenn. has legalized homebrewing but what
about the other states? This is an important issue for me as I am looking
about for places to postdoc and the thought of ending up in a state that
disallows my favorite hobby will weigh heavilly in my decision!

 -Alan Meeker



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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:25:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: HBD PALE ALE Experiment

I've just read the BT articles on the HBD Palexperiment run by Louis Bonham.
This was one of the best designed and executed brewing experiments I've yet
seen - kudos Louis! 

This is an example of the kind of articles I for one will miss given the
demise of BT.

The experimental design was far superior to the previously published Oregon
Pale Ale experiment in which they let so many variables float that the results
are essentially meaningless (one of the uncontrolled variables was yeast
strain!!). This is an example of the type of articles I won't be missing.

I do have a couple of quick questions for Louis, or anyone else out there
who'd care to chime in.

1) Concerning IBU measurements: The ASBC method that you made use of involves
extraction into an organic solvent and then measuring the absorbance at 275
nm. I'll bet that a LOT of organic compounds, particularly aromatics, present
in beer will absorb well at 275. Therefore, how reliable will an IBU
measurement be when done using this method? The organic extraction should get
away from the peptides, proteins, nucleic acids and nucleotides thet would act
as interfering substances but there must be other compounds to worry about.

Ideally, one would like to use the
exact same beer but unhopped as a baseline for comparison. If such baselines
are significantly above zero, and it seems likely that they will be, then it
makes it very difficult to make a good IBU comparison between different beers.
I don't think this was much of a problem in the case of the HBD experiment
since they all used exactly the same starting ingredients from a single source
so at least the /relative/ differences are valid.
 
Another conclusion this might impact is in trying to compare measured IBUs
with those predicted by  the popular IBU prediction formulas. What do you
think?


2) Headspace air: In the section on headspace air volume Louis states that
"...commercial operations generally view 1 ml of headspace air in a standard
12-oz bottle as an absolute maximum. (with modern bottling lines, headspace
air levels of 0.15ml aer commonplace)." This seems to go against my
experiences - one ml is a fairly small volume (for those of you who are
metric-challanged 5 ml is about one teaspoon) and it seems to me that most
commercial bottled beers I've seen have /at least/ a 5 ml headspace. The only
beers I have on hand seem to confirm this - Flying Fish ESB, Tennants lager,
and Sam Adams lager all have significant headspace volumes - some have
greater than 1 inch of headspace measured down from the cap!!

Are most commercial outfits using older bottling lines that leave more
headspace? I don't imagine the beers with larger headspaces are in danger of
staling as in commercial beers the headspace should be pretty free of oxygen.
There have however been pretty convincing studies showing that extremely small
volumes of headspace can negatively impact the level of carbonation achieved
in bottle conditioned beers.

 -Alan Meeker




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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:39:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Pumpkin ale recipe 



- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:16:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
To: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Pumpkin ale recipe

Here's my recipe for "Headless Horseman Pumpkin Ale."

This recipe evolved when I was still doing partials and extracts so it is not
in fact all-grain. Uses a mini-mash with couple of pounds of 6-row to generate
enough amylase to convert the pumpkin's starch. Dried malt extract is used to
bump up the gravity and the boil is only about 3 gallons in volume, with water
added to the primary to bring up the final volume to about 5 gallons (I was
limited at the time by the small kettle I had for wort boiliing) 

When I went over to all-grain I tried a couple of times to convert the recipe
to all grain. One problem with this is that it is prone to stuck run-offs
because of all the finely ground pumpkin meat. Rice hulls should probably take
care of this problem. The otherand more worrisome problem is that the all
grain versions, while decent, never were as good as the mini-mash recipe
below. Since this is one of my wife's favorite recipes I had to go back to the
mini mash... 

What you'll need:
2.5# English 6-row
1# xtal-20
1/2 # flaked wheat
6# Extra Light Dried Malt Extract (Munton&Fissons)
1 LARGE pumpkin
2 oz Willamette hop pellet

Water treatment:
My water is pretty tame - tens of ppms of carbonates and calcium. I pre-boil
6-7 gallons of water the night before with 1 tsp CaSO4 (gypsum) or CaCl2 to 
precipitate out the carbonates and get rid of chlorine. 

Pumpkin prep:
The night before brewing, I quarter one LARGE pumpkin, remove the
seeds/"guts," cover the sections with foil and bake at 350 degF on
foil-covered oven racks for about 2 1/2 - 3 hours. Check towards the end of
this time, you're looking for the meat of the pumpkin to becone very soft (a
fork works well for checking this). 
I perioically add a little water under the foil to keep everything moist
otherwise the meat can dry out, especially around the edges of the sections.
If it dries out a lot it becomes hard to  work with later. Keeping the the
foil well sealed also helps prevent excess drying. Cool, then you should be
able to pretty easilly scoop/scrape out the softened pumpkin meat from the
"skin" of the pumpkin. You should end up with mostly pumpkin meat and a little
of the skin/rind (discard the skin). The skin often charrs a bit where it
contacts the metal oven racks. Here you can sometimes just peel the skin off,
sort of like removing the skins from charred peppers if you've ever done this.
While some degree of charring seems unavoidable I don't think you want too
much or you'll end up with "burnt pumpkin ale" so move the sections around
every now and then as they cook to avoid this. 

Once you've got all the meat, you want to smush it all up well (sorry for the
technical jargon). I've used a food processor for this but if the meat is well
cooked and soft enough a potato masher works well as does one's hands if it's
cooled off enough. You can store the pumpkin in the frig till you're ready to
use it. Save all the "juice" along with the meat.  

On Brew day:
1. Heat 1 1/2 gal. water to 62 degC
2. Mash in 2.5# british 6-row
3. Adjust temp to 55 degC and pH to 5.2-5.4. Protein rest x 30 min. 
4. If the pumpkin has been refrigerated then warm it up now to about 70 degC 
   (microwave works well for this).
5. Add the pumpkin, 1# English crystal-20, 1/2# flaked wheat, and about 1/2
   gallon warm brew water  to the 6-row mash. Mix well and bring temp up to
   65-67degC for a 90 minute sacchrification rest.  
6. Sparge with 2 gallons of brew water at 50 degC. I do this by transfering 
   everything to a large grain bag and rinsing with the water. You should end
   up with about three gallons of very cloudy sweet liquor.
7. Add 6# extra light dried malt extract. Bring to boil then add the following
   spices:

	1 tsp cinnamon powder
	2 cinnamon sticks
	2 tsp vanilla powder
	1 tsp nutmeg
	1.5 tsp allspice
	1 tsp ginger
	1 oz Willamette hop pellets

8. Boli 45 minutes. Add 1 more oz Willamette and 1/2 tspp Irish Moss.
9. Boil 15 minutes then cool. 
10. Transfer to a 5 gallon primary fermentor and bring up the final volume
    with cold brew water to 4 1/2 gallons. The O.G. will be 1.070 - 1.080.
11. Pitch a large starter of Wyeast 1272 (American Ale II). Ferment for 2
    weeks at 65 degF.
12. Rack to secondary for another 2 weeks. Prime at a rate of 3/4 C dextrose
    (corn sugar) per 4 gallons volume an bottle. F.G approx. = 1.012
13. Should be drinkable at 2-3 weeks out but the spices belnd and mellow well
    in a month or two.

This beer has a good amount of residual sweetness and mouthfeel. I don't know
whether this is a byproduct of the pumpkin or the fact that there's a lot of
dried malt extract in the recipe or due to the fairly high gravity. Probably a
combination of all the above.

Have fun with this, let me know how it turns out if you try it!

 -Alan Meeker





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Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:03:22 EDT
From: BillPierce at aol.com
Subject: Re: Soybean Beer

> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:10:59 EDT
> From: JPullum127 at aol.com
> Subject: soybeans
>
> i just heard something on the news tonight that a des moines  iowa brewery 
> was using 15% soybean meal in its mash . i didn't catch the name of the 
> place.  report said unidentified "taste testers" found the beer to be " 
> verysmooth, rich and less bitter" besides the fact that i like "bitter" 
> ie;hoppy beers has anyone any further info on this or tried it themselves?

I know the brewer of this soybean beer, Steve Zimmerman of Court Avenue 
Brewing Company, a brewpub in Des Moines.  I have had the beer and spoken 
with Steve about it.  The impetus for brewing it came from the Iowa Soybean 
Association, which is seeking innovative new uses for one of the state's 
major agricultural products.

The soybeans used, which were actually in the form of soy grits, are a 
special new variety developed to be lower in oil than conventional soybeans.  
Their contribution to the beer in terms of fermentable sugars is minimal 
(when asked the extract potential of soy grits, Steve answered, "I didn't 
even figure it into my calculations").  Their contribution to the flavor is 
minimal as well.  However, the soy grits do have a protein content of 
approximately 30 percent and contribute a noticeable increase in body to the 
beer.

The recipe was intended to be a blond ale, light in both color (about 4 SRM) 
and bittering (15 IBU), that used American two-row malt and a small 
percentage of light crystal malt in addition to the soy grits.  The mash 
schedule employed a 30-minute protein rest at 122 F, otherwise the brewing 
process was identical to the other beers Steve brews.  At the moment I don't 
have information on the starting and finishing gravity.

The beer is pleasant but unremarkable in my opinion, apart from having more 
body than a typical light ale.  The average brewpub beer drinker would not 
find much to distinguish it from other beers.  The residual oil in the 
soybean grits does not affect the head; in fact, the high protein content 
seems to improve heading somewhat.  Because the beer is unfiltered, there is 
a slight haze, which Steve believes could be easily removed by filtering.

If the intent was to prove that drinkable beer could be made using soybeans 
as an ingredient, then I would call the experiment a success.  There is 
certainly no detriment to the flavor from the use of soy grits.  However, as 
there is no appreciable flavor improvement (at least to my taste) and little 
additional fermentability, I'm not sure what the incentive is to use them.

That's my $.02 on the subject.

Bill Pierce
Cellar Door Homebrewery
Des Moines, IA


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