---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Copper Coil for Jockey Box ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  Science, Tradition And Who is Eric? ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  BT and Suporting those that Su [bscribe, I guess...] (Robert S Wallace)
  Soy Beer ("Dic Gleason")
  No sediment in bottles ("Darryl Downie")
  HBD stats (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Chest freezers (fridge)
  Soybean adjuncts? ("Mr. Joy Hansen")
  HSA-still?, AHA-never ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Liver Enzymes (Eric.Fouch)
  Pils vs Pale ("Scholz, Richard")
  RE: (Chad Bohl)
  Re: Thinning the Wort Post-Pitch (Jeff Renner)
  Re: BT and Suporting those that Su (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Spartan Battle Cries ("Patrick Michael Flahie")
  Sarah Connor (Dave Burley)
  RE: Pumpkin Brews / Thinning the Wort Post-Pitch / HSA (again, (MaltHound)
  False Bottom Question (David Sweeney)
  re: GFI electrical circuits... (Lou.Heavner)
  Re: saving water (Ganister Fields Architects)
  MIni Kegs (DaGoalie38)
  Now I understand the process! (Des Egan)
  Mild recipe correction (Jeff Renner)
  Soybeans (William Frazier)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:11:44 -0600
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <matthew-saunders at uswest.net>
Subject: Copper Coil for Jockey Box

Dear Collective,

Many thanks to those that emailed me about converting a dorm fridge into a
jockey box.  I am pleased to say that the attempt has been very successful.
In fact the fridge is keeping my water bath cold enought that ice and water
has stayed ice and water for about 36 hours now.  I've pulled several pints
and the temperature of the beer is nice and cool.  Total cost--$20 for the
fridge, $18 for the copper coil and fittings, and $30 or so for the faucet
and beer line.  Pretty cheap!

OK my one concern is this....the copper coil that I purchased says on the box:

"Soft Copper Tube
Type:  Refrigeration"

Is there anything added to the copper to make it really soft (like lead)
that will poison me over the next few years as I use the system?  I should
have asked this question before putting the darn thing together.

TIA,
Matthew in Colorado.


"We have to work in the theatre of our own time,
with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones




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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:52:56 +1000
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au>
Subject: Science, Tradition And Who is Eric?

Steve,
         I am glad that you are back from your trip and ready to hurl
yourself into the continuing discussion. I don't feel that my reading of
your question is at all flawed. The point I was trying to make with respect
to the major breweries is that they are more or less trying to pursue an SE
type brewing technique and as they do they are getting further and further
away from what we appreciate as good beer. I haven't side stepped your
question. I simply do not believe that your concept of the Brave New Brewery
is going to make for us a better tasting beer. I don't believe it can! You
see Steve the majority of the world's beer drinkers don't give a rats about
the things we care about. I gather from your recent post that you would
class yourself as pretty high up on the scale of taste appreciation with
regards to beer. That is fine, possibly you are. And from this you probably
think I would be somewhere below, and possibly I am. But also just possibly
you may be deluding yourself. Sorry, I am drifting from my point. I called
your Brave New Brewery and associated question flawed because I believe it
is.
It is a bit like asking " If Marilyn Monroe appeared naked outside your
window would you tell your wife you were just going out to check on the
cat - or would you draw the curtains and stick with the wife"? (Lucky Jill
doesn't read this)!! It is something I do not believe is going
to happen. Besides, it would be no fun at all (I'm talking about the SE
brewing, not Marilyn)!
         Steve, I am glad you enjoy the level of science that you are at,
and I am glad you make it available here in the HBD for others to consider.
I'm sorry and I am certainly not being insulting, but I am not at all
convinced you are making any better beer than me. Maybe I am just that much
further down the tasting tree.
         You mentioned you knew Eric. Well I knew you knew Eric. I know Eric
myself. I did not know that I knew Eric when I first asked you if you knew
him. At that stage you did not realize that you knew him yourself! Now that
you know that I know you and I both know Eric, well why don't you indeed
join us for a beer?
         Regan runs a once a week get together at his "blackhole" of the
homebrew universe. Where all information comes in but nothing gets out. Even
Doc Pivo has visited us (though I was not there that night, pity) and he
still talks of Gil's Czech Pils as one of the best he has encountered. There
is many a varied brewer who gathers for a beer and a yarn at the Blackhole.
But to answer the question, just who is Eric? Well let's just call him "The
Jackal".

Cheers
Phil Yates.






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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 01:04:24 -0500
From: Robert S Wallace <rwallace at iastate.edu>
Subject: BT and Suporting those that Su [bscribe, I guess...]

Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:04:21 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: BT and Suporting those that Su 

Spencer Thomas replied to John E Schnupp's Comment:

    John> It is my opinion that the majority of the $$$ necessary to
    John> publish a magazine comes from the advertisers, not the
    John> subscribers.

Spencer:
I subscribe to an excellent cooking magazine, Cooks Illustrated
(http://www.cooksillustrated.com).  They carry NO advertising.  None.
Not a single word.

Subscription price?  About $30/yr for 6 issues.  Is it worth it?
Yes.  Do I miss the advertising?  What do you think?  :-)

<snip>

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)

Rob:
	I subscribe to two woodworking magazines (Shop Notes and Woodsmith;
Augusthome Publications) which do not include advertizing and cost roughly
about the same as Spencer's "Cook's Illustrated" magazine.  Quality
articles (albeit not as "thick" as BT), good illustrations, and a definate
target audience in mind. Successful, to say the least.

	Woodsmith and Shop Notes are both written "in house" and don't really take
input from 'outsiders', except for occasional hints and tips.  Writing
articles on a schedule when one produces everything from cover to cover is
likely quite different than working with external sources for one's
articles.  Regardless, it IS possible to run such a non-advert mag, as long
as subscriptions reach a critical minimum level.  Perhaps this is a viable
possibility, but someone (or some group) must invest some capital to get a
publication out and to solicit subscriptions, hopefully to recoup the
initial investment and make some money in the end.

	My sole contribution to BT was an article on the Shepherd Neame Brewery in
Kent (Nov-Dec '98), and working with the staff at BT was a rewarding,
enjoyable experience.  I had at least two other articles in the works, but
these are now on hold.   As has been said here previously, the void that is
now created hopefully will be filled in the future.  I would gladly
participate in a journal of similar scope, audience, and editorial rigor.
The demand is there - how can we develop a quality BT replacement to make
the economics work??

	Off to Yakima to photograph the hop harvest......  

	Humulonically-yours,

	Rob Wallace
   
Robert S. Wallace						"In cerevesia veritas est."
Associate Professor of Botany
							    e-mail: rwallace at iastate.edu
353 Bessey Hall					      Phone:  +001-515-294-0367
Iowa State University					          FAX: +001-515-294-1337
Ames, Iowa 50011-1020 USA




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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 23:14:57 PDT
From: "Dic Gleason" <dicgleason at hotmail.com>
Subject: Soy Beer

I found this in the 8 Sep. edition of the Pacific Stars and Stripes 
Newspaper. No story, just a picture of Steve stirring the mash and the 
following caption:
AP "Steve Zimmerman, brewmaster at Court Avenue Brewing Co. in Des Moines, 
Iowa, mixes a batch of soybean beer that will age and ferment in four to 
five weeks before it is ready for consumption. If the beer is successful, it 
will have big implications for Iowa's farmers."
I went to thier web site http://www.courtavebrew.com/ but there was nothing 
about soybean beer.
I have sent Court Ave. e-mail and will post any information they give me.

Dic Gleason
Uijongbu, South Korea

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:23:42 +0930
From: "Darryl Downie" <dagzy at senet.com.au>
Subject: No sediment in bottles

Hi all me again,
I have a question in regards to my latest over hopped brew (the bitterness
has diminished very much and it has quite a nice taste thankyou ).

My question is this, this is the first non kit brew I have made, and when I
bottled it there  was not the least but of cloudiness like the other kit
brews. Now after 3 days in the bottle there is no sediment layer in the
bottom of the bottles and they look quite clean. I was curious and cracked a
stubby to see if there was any gas and I was rewarded with a faint release
of co2. But when I poured some into a glass there did not seem to be very
much dissolved gas in the beer AKA very few bubbles. I used an ale yeast in
the beer which flocculated well and dropped out of suspension leaving quite
a large amount of slurry in the bottom of my closed fermenter.

I would like some advice as to whether this lack of cloudiness is normal for
boiled worts against my experience with kits. Or have I let the batch clear
too much and if so how can I remedy the situation without over gassing the
bottles which have been primed with castor sugar.

All the best and keep brewin

Darryl
Adelaide Australia



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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:50:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: HBD stats



In the March BT there is an article on this newfangled thing called the
"internet." Seems that ifn you have one of them thar computer gizmos you can
yuk it up with other homebrewers! 

The number of "sub scri bers/participants"  for the HBD is listed at 2900.
This
was in 1994. How have the numbers changed since then? 

 -Alan Meeker










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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:46:23 -0400
From: fridge at kalamazoo.net
Subject: Chest freezers

Greetings folks,

 In HBD#3131, Sean Richens asks about chest freezer life at the 
higher than normal temperatures often used in homebrewing, and 
wants to know if trimming the refrigerant charge will help extend a 
freezer's life in this application.

 I've covered this topic in more detail in prior posts. Those interested 
can search the HBD archives. The short answer is if the system 
pressures are allowed time to equalize before each compressor 
start, the freezer will probably rust out from condensation before the 
compressor wears out. Equalization time is the reason I suggest 
setting a 5 degree differential between cut-out and cut-in when using 
an external temperature controller. Some folks place their controller 
probe in a jar of oil or water to increase the differential. This is 
useful if the controller has a fixed (too short) differental.

 A chest freezer's compressor will have less starting torque than the 
compressor used in a refrigerator/freezer. Allowing a minimum of 5 
to 10 minutes between cycles will minimize the starting load on the 
compressor.

 I have heard from many folks who use chest freezers at elevated 
temperatures (I use two myself). To the best of my knowledge, the 
only compressor failures I've encountered have been due to age or 
refrigerant loss.

 If one were to have the refrigerant charge trimmed (reduced in this 
case) in a chest freezer, I don't believe the starting load would be 
reduced significantly until enough refrigerant is removed to cause a 
notable loss in cooling capacity. Proper compressor cooling could 
then be a problem.

 Please be aware that any modification or altered use of a chest 
freezer MAY cause it to fail prematurely. In my case, and for many 
others, there hasn't been a problem. YMMV

Hope this helps!

Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridge at kalamazoo.net



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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:12:18 -0400
From: "Mr. Joy Hansen" <joytbrew at patriot.net>
Subject: Soybean adjuncts?

WARNING: The following dialog is based fully on personal opinion!

I'm surprised that soybean, normal or defatted, is being considered as a
brewing adjunct.  I realize that the protein profile for soybean might be
quite different than barley; however, what's to do with all the protein?

Several commercial products are available that are soy or soyflour derived:
soyflour(50% protein), soy protein concentrate (70% protein), isolated soy
protein (90%+ protein), and many textured soy protein products.  Possibly
try a farm supply store for animal feed?  What is the benefit of all that
protein?  Something to do with a huge hot break and cold break during and
after the boil?  Are the proteins "head positive"?

Is there a special flavor/aroma contributed by soy?
                                         OR


Flatulens?  A "special effect" brew?  A new category for home brewing?

                                     Joy"T"Brew



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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:35:21 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: HSA-still?, AHA-never

I too read the piece in BT regarding HSA, and after some 33 citations of
reference in support of the article I can't understand how some people
still don't get it.
 Roger says, >>In other words, the 

     article says that stalling occurs at a time when most homebrew has 

     already been consumed, these experiments that have been posted have 

     done very well in confirming the work done by the author, stalling 

     occurs at a long timescale when talking about homebrew.<<
That was not the conclusion I would draw, the staling starts immediately,

the products reach a threshold level_sometime_later depending on levels 
of
HSA. The anecdotal evidence given in various experiments can be countered

by my own anecdote. After helping a brewer create a recipe for SNPA on 
his
system I tasted the beer. At 1 week it was wonderful, dare I say
_better_than SNPA, good malt presence and a balanced hop bitterness,
character and nose. Two weeks later, at the competition the beer was 
brewed
to enter, I tasted the same beer when it only placed 3rd, a pale
remembrance of its' former self. Maltiness gone, aroma gone, bitterness
flat, paperiness becoming apparent. So what happened? The brewer refuses 
to
pump the mash liquor for recirculation in fear of HSA and having the 
shear
forces denature the enzymes. He recirculates by draining into a ladle and

though we've added a dip tube to extend to the bottom of the ladle and he

is very careful in not splashing; the HSA did very much indeed take its'
toll on the beer in only a coupla weeks time. Now maybe I can sell him 
the
recirc pump.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --------------------------
The AHA also still doesn't get it, I received a nice little note that to
boost my profitability they are offering the "Classic Beer Styles" series
 1
at a bargain price of $3 per copy in case lots. What a deal!!! I get to 
buy
books that will replaced in a few months at a price higher than they got
when they remaindered out the series. What kind of service to the brewing

community is that? Since the series is archaic and that is why they are
reprinting them, why not send them off to recycling and do something good

for the environment rather than disseminating that bilge? <rhetorical
question, I know they need $> Well doesn't everyone, the whole industry 
is
on a downturn and it doesn't help to screw retailers who are already
struggling. Now everyone feel free to tell me what a caring, warm and 
fuzzy
organization they are.

Persistently pounding pilsner in Pittsburgh,
 N.P. Lansing


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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:41:00 -0400
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Liver Enzymes

HBD-

> When he reviewed the results from the insurance company
>he told me that the elevated liver enzymes were usually caused by excessive
>drinking or hepatitis. I told him I only drank 1-2 beers a day. Well, I just
>got back the blood test from my doctor and the liver enzyme levels are now
>normal. The doctor says I was probably exposed to a virus that elevated the
>liver enzymes.

I try to donate blood on a regular basis.  After one donation, I got a letter
back from the blood bank saying my liver enzymes were high too.  This sparked
many dark admonitions from my wife who owns far too many medical books, that I
drink too much.  Any consumption of alcoholic beverages is too much, as far as
she is concerned.  Well, enough about my personal hell.*
Anyway, I took her medical book to look it up myself (amazing what you can
find when you look for it), and showed her where it says elevated liver
enzymes can also be caused by undue stress (like her constantly bitching at me
for my drinking*).  Rather than blame it all on her, I pointed out that I
drink 1-2 homebrews a day, and I had been going through some stressful
employment status stuff (moved my family across the state, and then it looked
like I wouldn't be hired direct- but don't worry, Alan, my superior collegiate
education secured me the position*).  Since then, I drink more, have less job
stress, and have been successfully donating blood.
Well, except for very recently:  Ever since Kyle started teasing me for making
vegetable beers, my stress level has increased, and my enzyme levels are
through the roof!
Think of the children, Kyle- the children who need my blood!
FOR THE LOVE OF PETE, GET OFF MY BACK!!!!

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick Alcohol Dehydrogenase Concentration Modulation Center
Kentwood MI
"I may be paranoid, but they ARE out to get us!"

                                                              -Dave Burley

*Humor Impaired individuals insert smileys here.


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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:43:15 -0500 
From: "Scholz, Richard" <RScholz at refco.com>
Subject: Pils vs Pale

Nathaniel in HBD 3131 replies to Paul asking,
>>" but then there's no reason I can think of not to use lager malt to make
an ale.... is there?
>
Not if you take the higher levels of DMS into consideration and boil longer
to reduce the final levels of DMS, not normally found in an ale. Using ale
malt for a lager wouldn't work as well since you want a threshold level of
DMS in the finished lager. A short boil would help but then you would miss
the hop bitterness utilization.
>
Is there a real (from a molecular chemistry level) difference between "Pils"
and "Pale" Malts in modern commercial product?(come on, I know you malt
scientists are dying to write reams on this) I have compared the spec sheets
and see almost no difference in kiln temps or drying regiments, sprout
length, mealy/steely ratio, FAN% or other normally reported characteristics.
I also have used the two interchangeably for base malt with the following
caveat. The differences in malts are more effected by regional, seasonal and
varietal differences than by marketing labels. One would prefer to use
English malts in a Bitter and German malts in a Marzen or Czech malts in a
Pilsner. But to think that Pils malts produce more DMS than Pale malts has
not been my experience YMMV. And for DMS in a lager, it is acceptable in a
lager but not required as a major flavor contributor. I find base malt is
base malt, and yes, M&F pale is not identical in flavor to Moravian Pils but
you can use either as a start to almost any recipe. I think the slight
differences will not be perceivable except in very light beers with few
additions.  

- ---
Richard L Scholz
Brooklyn, NY
(624.2, 102o Rennerian)



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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:06:23 -0500 
From: Chad Bohl <Chad_Bohl at digi.com>
Subject: RE: 

On the web... http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/990913/nycu/expired.htm

Then scroll down to "Funky, skunky beer."

Chad

> 
> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:51:29 -0400
> From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
> Subject: US News & World Report
> 
> Check out the 9/13/99 issue of USN&WR under health.  There is 
> a portion 
> of
> an artical which interviews Dave Radzanowski, President of the Sieble
> Institute who explains the shelf life of beer and the fact that light
> exposure causes "skunky" flavors, not age as Bud would have 
> you believe.
> 
> Dan Listermann  dan at listermann.com    72723.1707 at compuserve.com
> 


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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:34:09 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Thinning the Wort Post-Pitch 

"Dransfield, Michael" <mdransfi at lehman.com> wrote:

>So, my questions: I really wanted a bitter, not a strong ale that I would
>expect from a 1.059 wort. Is it too late (two days after pitching) to add
>boiled, cooled water to the fermenter to bring the volume up to 5 gallons?
>Should I add water prior to bottling? How much will three or four quarts of
>water bring the gravity down? Is my beer ruined? Also, there was no cold
>break. I thought that lack of cold break in my prior batches was due to
>slower chilling via the cold water bath technique. I thought that my new,
>home-made immersion chiller would have produced some, but nooooo.... Does
>this result in higher gravity? Will my beer be full of evil proteins?

I would add the water as soon as possible so that any O2 you introduce has
a better chance of being eliminated by the active yeast.  Boiling will
drive off nearly all the O2, but be sure not to splash after it's cooled.
Adding water prior to bottling will work, too, but you run the risk of
adding O2 that won't be consumed by the yeast.  Yeast activity from priming
apparently doesn't eliminate all that much O2.  So do it even more
carefully this late.  I've done it with no problem.

Another consideration is that high gravity fermentation may produce more
esters and higher alcohols.  Also, you probably got slightly less hops
utilization at higher gravity.  (see below for bitterness estimate).

3 qts (0.75 gal) of water added to your 4.25 gallons would reduce the
gravity to 1+ [4.25/(4.25+.75)]*.059=1.050, still too high for a bitter,
IMO.  I'd add at least 5 qts. for 1.046.  That's still a strong drinking
bitter, but fine for one you don't drink pints of at a sitting.  The lack
of break shouldn't materially affect your gravity.

>1 oz. Fuggles 4.5% AA ten minutes into boil
>1 oz Fuggles 4.5% AA 55 minutes into the boil (last 15 minutes)
>1 oz. Willamette (? AA) 67 minutes into the boil (last three minutes)

Estimated bitterness for 4.25 gallons at1.059 (assuming pellets):

Hops
1st	23 IBU
2nd	 11 IBU
3rd	   3 IBU (assuming 5% alpha acid)
	________
	37 IBU

Or 31 IBU for 5 gallons  at  1.050, or 29 IBU for 5.5 gallons  at 1.046

I suspect that dilution will get you the beer you were after.  Good luck.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:10:37 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: BT and Suporting those that Su 

Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> wrote about a no advertising
magazine:

>Do I miss the advertising?  What do you think?  :-)

I think that in a hobby like ours, advertising is an important part of the
magazine.  How else would we learn of new products that our retailer
doesn't carry?  (Prime-tabs come to mind).  New product reviews don't
always cover them.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:08:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Patrick Michael Flahie" <flahiepa at pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: Spartan Battle Cries

Kyle from CA <Biergiek at aol.com> says:

>
> P.S. - Anyone know what the Spartan soldiers did
> before battle to build camaraderie within their

The standard procedure from my days in East Lansing, MI:

Before a battle: Drink copiously.
After a battle: Burn a couch or tip a car.  Riot.

Hope this helps in your report.

Patrick Flahie
Jackson, MI




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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:18:08 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Sarah Connor

Brewsters:

"Sarah Connor" says when speaking from the future
of the apocalyptic End of the Brewing Century:

 " It was just a question of which one would
reach him ( Pat Babcock) first."

I'm betting on MajorDomo! 

____________________________
Miguel De Salas ask about Tasmanian
Pepperberries in beer and for comments
 on his recipe.

If you want to show the berry color I suggest
you not use Crystal at all but mash at 158F
to provide a high dextrin level to balance
the spice from the berry and to avoid
coloring the beer with caramel from the crystal.

Since you are going to put them in the
secondary, why not take some other light
flavored beer like Foster's or your own
and crush some of the berries into it.
Use far more than you think will be
necessary. Allow it to stand in the fridge
for a few days and then prepare
various dilutions to get in the ball park, at least.

You could start this experiment now even
before you brew.
- -------------------------------------------------
AlannnT says something like When it comes
to January 1,2000 or 2001," Milennium will still be spelled
Millennium." 


If you want to have some fun, have the register
attendee ring up the sale and show him/her a twenty
dollar bill, let him/her ring up the change and then
give him/her some small change to round out what
you will receive and watch his/ her puzzlement.

Actually I think bad spelling and
no math skills are an indication of the end of
this society, since younger folks just plain
don't care if they can't spell it or make change.

Scares me!

Or else they're all underemployed engineers.

Which is even scarier!
- ---------------

Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:31:22 EDT
From: MaltHound at aol.com
Subject: RE: Pumpkin Brews / Thinning the Wort Post-Pitch / HSA (again,

To the annual autumnal flurry of posts about brewing pumpkin beers I  can add 
that the best "pumpkin" beer I ever made had absolutely *no* pumpkin in it at 
all.  Instead, I simply made a spiced beer with the traditional pumpkin pie 
spices (cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger, etc.) added as a strong spice-tea infusion 
during bottling.  No muss, no fuss, and I only had to spice as much of the 
batch as I felt I wanted to get me through the season.  

Everyone that tasted it, thought, Yumm, Pumpkin pie!  But there I had none of 
the  problems with smashing or mashing or with the beer clearing as is 
reported with the true pumpkin mashers.  This is an especially good trick for 
those extract brewers that would like to attempt a October Harvest brew since 
adding pumpkin flesh without converting the starches in a mash should be 
pretty reliably horrible.  

*********************************

In HBD 3131 "Dransfield, Michael" <mdransfi at lehman.com> asks:

"...So, my questions: I really wanted a bitter, not a strong ale that I would
expect from a 1.059 wort. Is it too late (two days after pitching) to add
boiled, cooled water to the fermenter to bring the volume up to 5 gallons?
Should I add water prior to bottling? How much will three or four quarts of
water bring the gravity down?"

and I especially like this question:  "Is my beer ruined?"

It's never too late to add water if dilution of the finished product is 
desireable.  You can even *plan* to brew this way intentionally in order to 
maximize your output for a given brewery capacity.  You just need to be sure 
the water has been fully de-aerated since the only time you want to add 
oxygen to your wort or beer is immediately before and/or after pitching the 
yeast.  To de-aerate the dilution water, simply boil the bajeebers out of it 
and then allow it to cool to room temp before adding.  The boil will also 
have the added benefit of killing any bacteria present in the water supply.

"Also, there was no cold
break. I thought that lack of cold break in my prior batches was due to
slower chilling via the cold water bath technique. I thought that my new,
home-made immersion chiller would have produced some, but nooooo.... Does
this result in higher gravity? Will my beer be full of evil proteins? "

Your lack of cold break is probably more a function of your ingredients than 
technique.  Break is made up of coagulated proteins.  Since you are brewing 
from malt extracts, rather than mashing grain, most of the proteins have been 
removed from the concentrated wort by the manufacturer prior to it being 
packaged.  Most (if not all) malt extract has been boiled already in it's 
manufacturing process.  Take it as an added advantage of the convenience of 
extract brewing!

************************************************

Speaking of adding water to brews... When I first started in this hobby, like 
many of you I read TNCJoHB.  Following the suggested procedures explicitly, I 
would dilute the boiling hot, concentrated wort from the partial boil with 
very cold water to its final volume.  This would have been about equal 
volumes of wort and water since I had a rather small kettle at that time.  
Typically, due to these volumes and temperatures, the resulting mixture would 
still be at too high of a temperature to pitch the yeast right away.  

I later decided that if I precooled the concentrated wort down to about 100 
deg F (I used the plunge the kettle into the kitchen sink ice bath method) 
and then added cold dilution water I would be right at the desired pitching 
temperature immediately.

An interesting side effect was that those beginning brews developed a stale, 
cardboard like flavor which worsened with conditioning.  The later 
"prechilled" brews did not.  All of my other procedures for wort / beer 
handling and packaging had not varied (intentionally anyway) so I have always 
thought that this was a form of HSA.

Like some others, I noticed that the staling seemed more pronounced on darker 
brews.  As to why oxygen would bind to the hot wort so quickly, I haven't a 
clue.  I haven't brewed this way in quite some time now, but I wonder if it 
would be possible to repeatably reproduce the ever controversial HSA staling 
using this technique.

Regards,
Fred Wills 
Londonderry, NH
 



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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:39:39 -0500 
From: David Sweeney <David at stulife2.tamu.edu>
Subject: False Bottom Question

I'm in the process of making a RIMS with a SS304 mash/lauter tun.  I would
like to use a design detail from C.D. Pritchard's RIMS which uses the SS
sheathing from a plumbing fixture hose connected to a tee as a sweet wort
exit manifold instead of the standard perforated SS false bottom.  C.D.'s
"dip tube" design exits his Gott cooler at the bottom.  (See
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/rims_inf.htm#manifold
<http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/rims_inf.htm#manifold>  for details).

Since my mash/lauter tun is SS, and I have a burner under it, I would like
to take advantage of these features to use the mash/lauter tun to heat
strike water for dough-in.  This, of course, necessitates a dip tube exit at
the side.

The question is this:  If I use a side exit for the dip tube, what
configuration should the dip-tube be in?  I imagine that the standard
right-angle "straight-up-the-middle-and-over" configuration will get in the
way of my mash paddle.  This is not an issue when a standard false bottom is
used as only about an inch of pipe is above the false bottom.  I suppose I
could follow the contours of the vessel using 45s and the like.

Any comments would be appreciated.

David Sweeney
Texas A&M University
David at stulife2.tamu.edu <mailto:David at stulife2.tamu.edu> 
- --"I'm learning big things."
- --David's three-year-old daughter


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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:05:22 -0500
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: re: GFI electrical circuits...

     Recently this august forum deliberated on ground fault interrupt
     circuits in the brewery.  Well I participate in another forum where
     the topic came up again.  Thought ya'll might find this an interesting
     review.

     A straightforward explanation can be found at
     http://www.rge.com/1911.html

     A more humorous approach by "Mr. Fix It" is at
     http://www.misterfixit.com/gfi.htm

     Thanks to Eric Nelson (who probably doesn't brew or read HBD) for the
     links.


     Cheers!

     Lou Heavner - Austin, TX  only 97 DegF today, must be end-of-summer
     Lagniappe Brewing - something extra in every sip


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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:43:26 -0400
From: Ganister Fields Architects <gfarch at tiac.net>
Subject: Re: saving water

In HBD #3110 Jim Clayton writes about saving water.  

How about a cistern for your waste cooling water from a wart chiller?  It
can be mounted high for gravity feed for your next batch of brew.  If the
cistern is insulated it might still be still be warm for your next batch or
at least room temperature if you don't brew very often.  This would save on
propane too.  

Does anyone have any ideas about what to do with waste water/iodophor
solution?  I'm reluctant to use old solution for anything but carboy
soaking.  I've seen lots of stuff floating around in it even after one
brewing session.  

Will Fields




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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:04:37 EDT
From: DaGoalie38 at aol.com
Subject: MIni Kegs

I am fairly new to homebrewing....I have brewed 4 batches. I have bottled 
these batches with good results. With my next batch (brown ale) I am thinking 
about kegging it using mini kegs (5 liters). Can anyone give me any input 
regarding these? Do you have to do anything different in regards to the kegs. 
I will be using partial grain. Thanks in advance.
                                     Dan Cutcher


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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:52:01 +1000 
From: Des Egan <degan at Bendigo.vic.gov.au>
Subject: Now I understand the process!

The Buffalo Theory

A herd of buffalo can move only as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the
herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are
killed first.  This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole,
because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by
the regular killing of the weakest members.

In much the same way the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest
brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, we all know, kills brain cells,
but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.  In this
way regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making
the brain a faster and more efficient machine.

That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers!



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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:16:34 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Mild recipe correction

Brewers

I mistyped the recipe I posted on 9/3 for a mild using Ashburne- I said I
used 0.75 lbs chocolate!  Wow - I really only used 3 oz.  Hope nobody
brewed it.

Here is the recipe:

7.75 gal. Mild  at 1.037:

8.5 lbs Briess Ashburne
0.5 lbs Briess Victory (a toasted malt)
3 oz. Baird chocolate
1 lb. Durst 90L crystal
0.25 lbs torrefied wheat

Fuggles 1 hr. to 20 IBU
E.K. Goldings 15 minutes for 4 IBU

Fermented with Ridley's B111 yeast (YCKC).

This turned out very nicely.  When it was very young it was a little
roastier than I wanted, but after a few weeks, this mellowed and melded
with the rest of the flavors.  A very good warm weather ale.  I don't know
how much the flavors of the chocolate, Victory and crystal malt may have
overwhelmed the probably more subtle flavors of Ashburne.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 03:18:07 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Soybeans

"But Rick, you didn't tell us where "my area" is.  You've violated Renner's
Law #1!  I don't know where skantech is.  Kansas?"

Jeff Renner comments on Rick's search for soybeans.  Jeff...I know that
Kansas has recently been in the news and that the whole world now knows that
our fine state is intellectually, as well as topographically, flat... but
soybeans??  Come on down...I've got at least 300 acres of soybeans coming
into ripeness within one mile of my house.  Never cared for them much.  Out
here on the prairie we just feed them to the critters.

        Bill Frazier
        Johnson County, Kansas







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---