---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Status of BrewingTechniques magazine (Dan Cole)
  Re: Copper Coil for Jockey Box (David Lamotte)
  HSA - HUH?? (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Re: Science, Tradition And Who is Eric? (David Lamotte)
  Ale / Lager Malt (Paul Haaf)
  Soy source & Decoctin ("Mr. Joy Hansen")
  Question for the Engineers (Rod Prather)
  Soybeans????? (Rod Prather)
  Re: AHA Director's Post ("Brett A. Spivy")
  Re: BT and Suporting those that Su (John Gilman)
  Soft Copper Tube (Rod Prather)
  Soft Copper Coil ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Sanke Kegs Wanted ("Pat Galvin")
  Priming, 5l Kegs (Dave Burley)
  Re: Copper Coil for Jockey Box (Kit Cheves)
  Just who IS Eric? ("Dr. Pivo")
  Brewing Techniques (Joel Plutchak)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 06:25:20 -0400
From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: Status of BrewingTechniques magazine

When the rumor (now confirmed) about BT first surfaced, I e-mailed
BrewingTechniques for confirmation. I just received the latest form-letter
e-mail.

I normally wouldn't post personal e-mails (without permission), but since
it is a form letter, I thought that anyone else who inquired would get the
same message, so why not put it out there for everyone?

Dan Cole
Roanoke, VA

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Thank you for your e-mail inquiry about BrewingTechniques.  I'm sorry I
>have been unable to answer until now.  And I must apologize for answering
>with a form letter, but it is the only way we can handle the volume of
>e-mails we have been receiving.  I hope it addresses your questions and
>concerns.
>
>Regretfully I must announce that BrewingTechniques has ceased publication.
>The reason is simple: ongoing financial losses and lack of material
>resources to support its continuation.  A letter is in the mail to all BT
>subscribers and advertisers explaining the situation in more detail.
>Subscribers are getting an attachment explaining the status of their
>subscription funds; advertisers are getting an attachment explaining their
>advertising payment status.  If you belong to either camp, your letter
>should arrive within a few days.
>
>BrewingTechniques may not be entirely dead.  It is officially "for sale."
>We are talking to several publishers and individuals who may be interested
>in purchasing the magazine and continuing publication.  Keep the faith.
>
>I want to thank you for your patronage over the years, for the kind words
>we have received -- both in the past and now at the news of our passing --
>and for your understanding and support as we transition into the unknown.
>
>It has been a pleasure and honor to serve the brewing community through
>BrewingTechniques, the Brewers' Market Guide, and our online publication
>(http://brewingtechniques.com).  Of all the publications, the website is
>almost certainly going to continue in one fashion or another, so don't
>trash that bookmark!
>
>Although our passing is in part a sign of the times, I do not believe it
>bodes ill for the industry's future as a whole.  Beer is ancient and
>persistent and will continue for generations.  Stay part of the process.
>Hang in there for the sake of the good beer movement.
>
>Thanks again for your interest and support of BrewingTechniques.
>
>Stephen Mallery
>Publisher


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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:49:55 +1000
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Copper Coil for Jockey Box

Matthew is concerned that his soft copper coil will poison him.

No Worries (as we say down under).

Nothing has been added to the copper to make it soft.  Copper is a very
soft metal when it is first made, but as you form it into wires, sheets,
tubes etc it becomes harder ( Technical term is that it Work Hardens).  The
stiff straight pipes that you buy for water etc are simply made and left
hard.

The soft copper tubing is made in the same way, but then is heated above
600-700 deg c and quickly cooled.  This softens ( or anneals) the metal. 
If you watch a plumber working with copper pipes they will often heat the
pipe to a red heat and then let it cool before bending it or expanding it
for fittings, flares etc.

You can try this at home yourself if you are having trougble bending that
coil for a chiller etc.  Just heat it until it turns red (not too much
hotter or it WILL start to melt or oxidise away), and allow it to cool.  

Turns it into soft putty.....

David Lamotte

Previous Metallurgist, Current Beer Drinker
Newcastle N.S.W. Australia


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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:49:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: HSA - HUH??

Nathan Lansing presented the following anecdote for HSA:

>>"...system I tasted the beer. At 1 week it was wonderful, dare I say
>>_better_than SNPA, good malt presence and a balanced hop bitterness,
>>character and nose. Two weeks later, at the competition the beer was 
>>brewed to enter, I tasted the same beer when it only placed 3rd, a pale
>>remembrance of its' former self. Maltiness gone, aroma gone, bitterness
>>flat, paperiness becoming apparent. So what happened? The brewer refuses 
>>to pump the mash liquor for recirculation in fear of HSA and having the 
>>shear forces denature the enzymes. He recirculates by draining into a ladle
>>and though we've added a dip tube to extend to the bottom of the ladle and
>>he is very careful in not splashing; the HSA did very much indeed take its'
>>toll on the beer in only a coupla weeks time..."

HUH?? Let me get this straight- here's a guy who is being fanatical in his
technique in order to /avoid/ HSA but his beer goes quickly stale so this must
therefore be /due/ to HSA??? 

Am I missing something here? 

 -Alan Meeker
B'more




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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:08:36 +1000
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Science, Tradition And Who is Eric?

I am afraid that I must register my complaint regarding Phil Yates recent
post (so what else is new?).

Sir, your claim that ....

> Regan runs a once a week get together at his "blackhole" of the
> homebrew universe.

 ...is a total mistruth and cannot be justifed on any scientific or artistic
grounds.*

While Regan's 'Thursday note meets' are legendary, the shop is the stellar
centre of the Australian brewing landscape.

I demand a retraction - Newcastle holds the "blackhole" title.  I well
remember my excitement the day when the range of whole grains doubled to
include both 'cracked' and 'uncracked' grains.  No barley varieties, no
spec sheets, no colour or specialty grains.  Hence my annual 300 km visits
to Regan's.

I often wonder what needs to be done to kick start this wonderfull hobby of
ours so that the oz Home Brew scene could mirror the variety enjoyed by our
US bretheren.

David Lamotte
Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia

* - insert smily of readers choosing....


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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:44:05 -0400
From: Paul Haaf <haafbrau1 at juno.com>
Subject: Ale / Lager Malt

Can't you make up for the the lack of hop bitterness due to a short boil
simply by boiling a hop tea and adding it (and the hops used) to your
wort?  Just a thought.

Paul
"Too many freaks, not enough circuses"

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.


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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:55:39 -0400
From: "Mr. Joy Hansen" <joytbrew at patriot.net>
Subject: Soy source & Decoctin

Hi All,

Super Wal Mart carries the Hodgson Mills products and this includes soy
flour at $2+ a pound.  Couldn't determine if it was defatted or not. Don't
know if the milling process gelatinizes the starchy stuff.

Would soy need to be gelatinized prior to addition to the main mash?

B. Sheck asked about decoction techniques in a previous post.  "Secrets of
the Double Decoction" by greg. J. Noonan in Zymurgy , "Special Issue -
Lagers and Lagering" seems to explain what's it's all about.  IMHO, he
debunks the positive effects of longer saccharification periods to enhance
flavor?

                                    Joy"T"Brew




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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:41:23 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Question for the Engineers

I am building a Herms using SS sanke type kegs (actually AB).  I have been
told by a friend that applying the heat directly to these kegs can carbonize
the metal and weaken it.  (sounds hokey to me if theres liquid in it.)
Anyway, the person said that it might be wise to put a curved copper plate
on the bottom of the pot to spread the heat and improve heating
characteristics.  You could spin a copper plate to fit the curve of the
keg.   The question is, is there any benefit to this at all?   It seems that
the copper would have to be physically attached or extremely close to the SS
keg to get the heat transfer desired.    Whadaya think????





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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:16:09 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Soybeans?????

Ok, soybeans have a little bit of starch but they are basically about 40% to
50% protein.  How are you going to explain that 2 hour protein rest?
;^)>*===




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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 13:57:20 -0500
From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com>
Subject: Re: AHA Director's Post

This was the signature of a recent poster:
 - --
Paul Gatza
Director
American Homebrewers Association        (303) 447-0816 x 122
736 Pearl Street                        (303) 447-2825 -- FAX
PO Box 1679                             paulg at aob.org -- E-MAIL
Boulder, CO 80306-1679                  info at aob.org -- AOB INFO
U.S.A.                                  http://www.beertown.org -- WEB

Frankly, I am stunned!  Perhaps everyone else here was privy and I've
had my head up my bum.  I had no idea you were among us.

While I greatly appreciate the humility of this post,
<snip>
 In some states, such as Indiana, we have dropped the ball,
and the efforts have moved forward without our help.
<snip>
and the information is timely, accurate (from what I could tell), and
exactly what I would expect from the director of the only national
organization for brewers, I was still suprised to see this post.

Your organization has come under fire constantly since I have been
reading this forum and frankly I assumed you neither knew nor cared.
Its one of only a couple of reasons I haven't joined.  I have been a
member of this forum for almost a year, a homebrew club member for about
four (4) months, and a newbie homebrewer for about about seven (7)
months.  In that time I have NEVER heard a face to face positive comment
on Mr. Papazian or the AHA.  I have seen literally dozens of negative
comments posted here and in other forums.  Admittedly, I have seen a few
weak defenses made and even considered an old article I read about Geo.
Fix speaking at a convention a tacit endorsement, but I have either
missed or there has not been any show of concern for the impressions of
persons in the forum (and for that matter the homebrewing community at
large on the web).

Please, please, please, I beseech you Mr. Gatza.  Tell me why I should
join the AHA.  What will I be doing for myself, for the whole
homebrewing community, for the education of persons outside this
community about who we are and what we are about.  Are you mute in the
face of these many charges because they do not dignify a response or
because they are so completely accurate that their is no defense.

Brett A. Spivy
Stolen Cactus Brewery (what a difference a name makes)
Skid Row WINOry  (I liked the first so much I had to have another)
Double Dog Dairy  (this one I had)





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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:05:12 -0500
From: John Gilman <gilmanj at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BT and Suporting those that Su 

Spencer:
> I subscribe to an excellent cooking magazine, Cooks Illustrated

Rob:
>. . .- how can we develop a quality BT replacement to make
the economics work??

The reason Cooks works is not because it doesn't accept advertising, but
because of its Publisher/Editor, Christopher Kimball.  Kimball has an
ultra clear vision for what he wants to do with the magazine, and the
magazine reflects his vision.  He knows the kind of cooking he wants to
feature and how he wants his articles written.  To replace BT, a similar
leader would have to emerge.  IMHO, this is not a position that you
elect someone to because they are a great brewer or because they know
how to publish/edit a magazine.  It takes someone who has passion and a
vision for brewing instruction that they desperately want to see
realized in print.  At the same time they have to instinctively
understand their target audience.  This combination is very rare. (I do
think Dave Miller accomplished this with his first books and set new
standards for what a homebrewing book could be.)

I have felt for years that this is precisely the reason why Zymurgy has
struggled.  Some of Zymurgy's problems have been do to a lack of
vision.  For years they coasted with mediocre content and failed to
improve the quality of homebrewing.  Some of Zymurgy's problems came
from not understanding their target audience, thus the "Why we Brew"
issue.

John Gilman



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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:06:53 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Soft Copper Tube

"J. Matthew Saunders wrote in HBD #3132


> Is there anything added to the copper to make it really soft (like lead)
> that will poison me over the next few years as I use the system?  I should
> have asked this question before putting the darn thing together.
>
Actually, the opposite is true.  Pure copper by itself is very soft.  Small
amounts metals  like nickel are added to copper to make it hard.



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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:42:33 -0700
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: Soft Copper Coil

Matthew asks:

>>Is there anything added to the copper to make it really soft (like
lead)
>>that will poison me over the next few years as I use the system?

I think that you'll probably get a lot of responses, but I'll throw my
$0.02 in since I believe I know the answer right off the bat-- copper is
pretty soft on it's own, although it will "work-harden."  I have heard
of copper being alloyed with nickel to make it more rigid, so maybe your
answer is in that.  The copper is unadulerated and not hardened via
compression or alloying.

Rick Theiner




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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:55:13 -0700
From: "Pat Galvin" <Pat_Galvin at ermwest.com>
Subject: Sanke Kegs Wanted

Hey Guys:
I'm in search of a couple of Sanke kegs for use as brewing kettles.  Anybody out
there know where I can pick up a couple in the San Francisco Bay Area or
Sacramento Area?   Thanks in advance for any help.
Pat Galvin
Folsom, CA
pat_galvin at ermwest.com




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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:07:13 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Priming, 5l Kegs

Brewsters:

Darryl of Adlelaide is concerned because his
recently bottled beer seemed too clear at
bottling and after three days the carbonation
is inadequate.

Three days are not enough to make that
judgement. I would wait a couple of weeks.

If it is a problem, then make up an active
250 ml yeast starter <not> containing priming sugar
but with just a Tablespoon ( 15 ml) of malt extract
Allow this to reach full activity in about 12 hours
or so.  You will have to take the cap from
every bottle and add about 5 ml of this slurry
to each bottle and recap with new caps.
Allow to carbonate normally.

See the HBD archives for "Kraeusen starter"
and my name.When bottling, I always use
this method to guarantee a proper and fast
carbonation.  This is especially important
with flocculent yeast and if you use a
secondary to clear your beer. 


A proper HB beer, naturally carbonated,
should have only a paint coat of yeast on the
bottom of the bottle and this will allow you
to pour out nearly all of the beer.
- --------------------------------------------------------
Dan Cutcher is thinking about going to 5 liter
minikegs for his next brew.  Based on my
experience and lots of other comments here,
I suggest you skip the 5 l kegs and go directly
to a proper system with 3 and 5 gallon
Cornelius style (soda pop) kegs and a
carbon dioxide tank and regulator.  Final
cost is about the same and the results far
superior as far as controlling the product.

Over carbonating a 5 l keg can lead to 

a damaged keg at best.  Leaks and
lots of foaming with no way to correct 

also can be a problem.  Some people
use these successfully, but I was sorry
I ever spent the money. If you do buy
this system be sure not to waste your
money on the plastic tap version. I
didn't, but was still not satisfied with the
final result.


Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley

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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:11:20 -0700
From: Kit Cheves <c.cheves at ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: Copper Coil for Jockey Box

In HBD #3132, J. Matthew Saunders asks:

"Is there anything added to the copper to make it really soft (like lead)
that will poison me over the next few years as I use the system?  I should
have asked this question before putting the darn thing together."

Clean Cu tubing is safe for use in food grade applications.  Its temper
(hardness) is determined by how it was heat treated.


Kit Cheves
Escondido, CA
(9.1389 S/33.2404 W)



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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:43:23 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: Just who IS Eric?

Phil and Jill wrote:

>  Well I knew you knew Eric. I know Eric
> myself. I did not know that I knew Eric when I first asked you if you knew
> him. At that stage you did not realize that you knew him yourself! Now that
> you know that I know you and I both know Eric

I knew Eric, but didn't know you knew Eric. Although it stood to reason
that you COULD know Eric, I'll never figure out how the hell Steve knew Eric.

Eric asked me to promise not to tell who he was to either of you guys,
and I was going to, but then my computer crashed, and when I fixed it,
he'd closed down his email.

I figured since I didn't get a chance to promise, that means I can
tell... but since you guys know already, what's the point?

> It is a bit like asking " If Marilyn Monroe appeared naked outside your
> window would you tell your wife you were just going out to check on the
> cat - or would you draw the curtains and stick with the wife"?

Since the embalming fluid has long since leaked out, and there is about
30 years of ensuant rot.... I think I'd stick with Jill (even if she
does wear your pants), regardless of whether the pile of bones, maggots,
and mould in your garden was clothed or not.

A correction...

> and he
> still talks of Gil's Czech Pils as one of the best he has encountered.

Gil's Pils was not a Czech Pilsner but rather a Bavarian style Pils, and
yep! one of the best I've encountered outside of the source of them, and
I do still talk about it on occasion (I do tend to be repetitive)....
mostly I think I give it as an example of how one can pay attention to
detail and technique, and sharpen ones tasting references by seeking out
"the sources", and then be extremely successful at brewing, without
getting their heads lodged up their theoretical (*).

(funny thing.... I've made MANY trips to the states, and always consume
as wide a variety of the micro brewed stuff, at as many places as
possible, and despite the fact that all the beer making expertise in the
world is residing there (I learned that here), I've never tasted
anything there that was even close to the quality of that bottle Gil had
with him).

I think I know the solution to that, though.

Those Yanks are obviously not burning up their clothes dryers.

Isn't it about time that Gil started passing on those little tips to his
trans-pacific cohorts?

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:11:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Brewing Techniques


   Well, I finally heard it straight from the horse's mouth.
An email form letter in response to some email I sent just before
the demise rumors started circulating said, in part:

   Regretfully I must announce that BrewingTechniques has ceased
   publication.  The reason is simple: ongoing financial losses
   and lack of material resources to support its continuation.  A
   letter is in the mail to all BT subscribers and advertisers
   explaining the situation in more detail.

And most interestingly:

   BrewingTechniques may not be entirely dead.  We are talking to
   several publishers and individuals who may be interested in
   purchasing the magazine and continuing publication.  Keep the
   faith.

It was "signed" by Stephen Mallory.
- --
Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
East-central Flatlandia, Illinois



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