---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Lambic Yeast and Sanitation (Matthew Arnold)
  RE: bubbles, tiny and otherwise ("O'Brien, Douglas")
  O2 and grease ("Sean Richens")
  HOP TEA, 100% Ashburne Malt ESB (RCAYOT)
  Re: Want more Hop Flavor (David Lamotte)
  Subject: Subject: Book..... (Dennis Templeton)
  re: Re: Oxygen spontaneous combustion (Bob Sheck)
  CABA Annual General Meeting ("Rob Jones")
  HERMS Plans ("Jeff Hewit")
  Methods for dry hopping in your serving keg ("John S Thompson")
  Are brewers being marginalized by Winemakers? ("Alan McKay")
  re: RIMS thermocouple (John_E_Schnupp)
  Sweet Potato Aroma ("bryan bonser")
  Re: Dry Hopping with Pellets (Bob Sutton)
  Subject: Book..... ("Jack Schmidling") (Dan Kasen)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:56:00 GMT
From: revmra at iname.com (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: Re: Lambic Yeast and Sanitation

On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:17:34 -0400, you wrote:

>I found a comment (I don't remember 
>where) that suggested Lambic yeast and bacteria are so strong that 
>sanitizing equipment after their use is nearly impossible.

I am not a microbiologist, nor do I play one on T.V. so take the following
comments with several grains of salt.

I would think that this advice would be very good for a microbrewer or pub
brewer who would be attempting a pLambic. It would be nearly impossible to get
every nook and cranny clean and disinfected. However, we homebrewers can give
all our equipment a soak in a good, strong bleach solution which should take
care of most anything. I probably would be leery of using a corny keg for
pLambic because the poppets and such would be difficult to clean--can anyone
chime in on this one?

I have found it interesting that we are warned so strongly about brett or pedio
infections in our "regular" beers, yet it is difficult to keep the wee beasties
alive when attempting a pLambic. My plan right now, FWIW, is to keep my five
gallon carboy forever dedicated as a pLambic fermenter. When I bottle this
batch (whenever that might be) I'll just dump out the majority of the jetsam
and rack the new pLambic on to the rest of the leftover yeast / bacteria.

What I'd do for a bottle of Boon Geuze right now . . .
  Matt
- -----
Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club


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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:20:25 -0400
From: "O'Brien, Douglas" <Douglas.O'Brien at CCRS.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: RE: bubbles, tiny and otherwise

>Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:30:27 -0400
>From: jim english <jimebob at mindspring.com>
>Subject: bubbles, tiny and otherwise
>
<snip>
>
>p.s. Do big bubbles rise faster, period?
>
Years ago this question was asked by a physics professor of mine.  A fellow
student replied "bubbles do not have time to rise in my beer"!  I spent the
next hour laughing so much that I don't remember the answer to the question.

Sorry,

Doug



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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:28:41 -0500
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: O2 and grease

Doesn't anyone remember Apollo 13?  I was seven years old at the time, and
I haven't seen the movie, but I remember O2 and grease being the principal
suspect.

Sean


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Date: 30 Oct 1999 09:54:30 -0400
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: HOP TEA, 100% Ashburne Malt ESB

     Jeff Woods asks about HOP TEA additions.
     
     I "dry hop" with hop teas.  What I do is take my one or two hop plugs 
     (not whole, not pellets, plugs!) and add about a cup and a half of 
     water, place them in a sauce pan, place on the stove with cover on low 
     heat, and wait for the stuff to boil.  I then add the whole soggy mess 
     to my secondary, most of the hops float and when I keg, they remain 
     behind when a racking cane with one of those red plastic caps is used. 
      Anyway, I feel that this works for me in several ways:
     
     1. It apparently speeds up the process of infusing beer with hop 
     flavor and aroma.  I get good results in one week at 40-45F while my 
     yeast crashes in the fridge.
     
     2.  The hop flavor is less "grassy" more like a really good late 
     hopping flavor BUT with really good AROMA!
     
     I have not really noticed it, there is probably an increase in 
     bitterness in the finished product.  
     
     To this I would like to add some comments about dry hopping and Czech 
     Pils.  A few short weeks ago there was some discussion about how 
     (im)proper dry hopping is for that style, and the insistence of some 
     that is was inappropriate because "Pilsner Urquell does not dry hop... 
     I was there yadda yadda yadda...."  Now I have NEVER been to the Czech 
     Republic or anywhere across the big pond, but I would have to add that 
     it is the TASTE of the beer that is important, not the TECHNIQUE used 
     to achieve it.  I know of several beers I have had that had phenomenal 
     hop flavor and aroma, that were not dry hopped, they have a hop back, 
     whirlpool, etc. in the brewery and achieve the hop profile without dry 
     hopping.  A homebrewer might achieve the same EFFECT by dry hopping, 
     and if so, what's the deal?  I am a big proponent of learning about 
     and using traditional methods and materials, but I am also one who 
     will let the beer do the talking!
     
     As far as the 100% Briesse Ashburne malt ESB, I just kegged it!  So 
     far the beer is very good, there is a "different" kind of maltiness 
     than I am used to, normally I add 10-20% Munich in addition to Briesse 
     Pale Ale malt for a kick in malt.  The ESB is "dryer" than my normal 
     beer, but with using a different yeast (Wyeast American Ale#2) I 
     achieved a 71% apparent attenuation which is not overly dry, I think 
     that the beer is just less malty/sweet and more malty/toasty that my 
     usual.  This beer, although good is probably flawed due to a pH 
     adjustment I mad on my sparge water, which I STUPIDLY did without the 
     aid of a pH meter..... (I should have known better....) anyway, the 
     beer is somewhat acidic.  Now this could very well be from yeast, the 
     first wort hopping schedule I used (which I think adds a hop flavor 
     that is somewhat acidic)  Anyway, the malt flavor is very up front and 
     subtle, I guess I am really going to have to do this again and more 
     carefully.  Say... another 6g of beer... Okay!
     
     Roger Ayotte  


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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:13:43 +1100
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Want more Hop Flavor

Jeff Woods requested info on feeding his hop addiction - looking for
flavour without bitterness.

I have found that using First Wort Hopping gives you the flavour.  See
http://brewery.org/library/1stwort.html for more info.

Using a Hop Back also increases the aroma.  Try searching the archives for
"hopback" OR "hop back".

David Lamotte


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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:37:09 -0500
From: Dennis Templeton <djt2 at po.cwru.edu>
Subject: Subject: Subject: Book.....

>Subject: Subject: Book.....
>
>
> > hal <hwarrick at springnet1.com>
> >Subject: Book: Principles of Brewing Science 2
>
> >Come to think of it, this is about the time George Fix should pop
>into the HBD with a post... his posts seem to be favorably timed with the
>release dates of his new publications.  I wonder if he learned these
>marketing strategies from Schmidling?
>
>Actually, he failed the course.  He is still working and I retired at age 40.
>
>js


Maybe he has a job he actually enjoys?  (Actually, I know he does). 
And hey, Jack, arent you still hocking easymashers?

Dennis


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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:18:12 -0400
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: re: Re: Oxygen spontaneous combustion

In Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:51:49 -1000, Alex Hazlett <arexu at aloha.net>
writes about <SNIP> "but an oxygen fire is nothing you want to see."

But if you DO want to see one, go to:
http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu
for sound and video (and pix, of course) of subject.


Bob Sheck

bsheck, me-sheck, abednigo! Greenville, NC 
email:bsheck at skantech.net or see us at:
http://www.skantech.net/bsheck/
(252)830-1833
- -------------
"Madness takes its toll -- Please have exact change!"


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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:12:02 -0500
From: "Rob Jones" <robjones at pathcom.com>
Subject: CABA Annual General Meeting

Hi,

The Canadian Amateur Brewers Association is having its AGM November 27, 1999
at Denisons Brewing Company & Restaurant, 75 Victoria St., downtown Toronto.

The bus will be taking us to Taylor & Bate Brewery and the Merchant Ale
House, both in the St. Catherines/Niagara region. People in the Niagara
region interested in meeting up with the tour there should contact Richard
Oluszak at richard.oluszak at sympatico.ca

The schedule is as follows:

Registration & Coffee: 10am
Meeting: 10:30 am
Lunch & pint: 11:30
On bus: 12:30 (or a bit earlier)
Return to Totonto around 7pm

Member Costs:
$20 Lunch Only
$35 Bus Trip Only
$50 Whole Day.

NonMembers Costs:
$40 Bus Trip
$60 Whole Day

Hope to see you there!!









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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:46:41 PST
From: "Jeff Hewit" <aleman_ at excite.com>
Subject: HERMS Plans

I have seen some discussion on HERMS systems.  (I forget exactly what
"HERMS" stands for, except that "RM"  means "recirculating mash.")  My
understanding is that wort is pumped through a heat excahanger in the hot
liquor tank as an alternative to using an electric heating element in the
traditional RIMS set up.  This is supposed to prevent scorching of the wort
and provide other advantages which I have forgotten.  Sounds like a great
idea, but I haven't seen any pictures or specs.  I'm sure someone has posted
details on these set ups.  Does anyone know of any Web sites that include
HERMS plans?

TIA

Jeff Hewit
James River Homebrewers
Richmond, VA




________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com


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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:16:04 -0500
From: "John S Thompson" <jthomp6 at lsu.edu>
Subject: Methods for dry hopping in your serving keg

Hello HBDers.

I've tried a few methods for dry hopping in my (3 gallon) serving kegs. I
thought I'd share these as well as inquire about other methods. The impetus
for my experimentation was to achieve a nice fresh hop aroma without having
to secondary the beer and dry hop there...

Both of these methods involve adding hops to the keg and putting some sort
of "filter" over the bottom of the intake tube:

First, I took one of those plastic "chore boys" and placed it around the
bottom of the intake tube. (Basically, I forced the intake tube into it
until it pierced the chore boy, so the bottom of the tube ended up being in
the center of the chore boy.) I then added about half an ounce of Spalt
*pellets* to each keg. The aroma was nice, but the chore boy did not do an
adequate job of filtering out the pellets, as those things are very fine
once they hit the liquid.

My second attempt appears more successful. This time, I took a (2" x 2")
piece of aluminum screen (like the kind you get at the hardware store) and
wrapped it around the end of the dip tub, "crimping" it with my fingers.
Then, I added half an ounce of Goldings *leaf hops* to each keg. So far, all
is well. Although the aroma hasn't come through too much yet (I did this
yesterday), there are no hops coming through. Even after a day in the keg,
the beer is approaching clarity.

In summary, I strongly recommend the second method and welcome any
additional input/comments/ideas...

John


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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:26:35 -0500
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: Are brewers being marginalized by Winemakers?


Here in Ottawa within the last 2 years the brew stores have less-and-less
beer stuff, and more and more wine stuff.  3 years ago when I moved here
when the brewstores put out their quarterly sales fliers, 60% roughly of
the stuff on sale was beer stuff.  Now it's more like 20%.  The
mega-bookstore
in town Chapters used to have a beer section that was 3 and almost 4 shelves
in size.  Now it's only less than 1 shelf, and wine takes up about 5
shelves.

Maybe it's just because of the onslaught of wine-on-premise, I don't know.
There is now even a "co-op" wine-on-premise here in town where you
walk in the door, make a wine, then bottle someone else's batch from a
month ago, and walk out the door.  A month later someone else comes
in and bottles yours.

Is this happening everywhere, or is it just here in Ottawa?

cheers,
 -Alan

- --
- --
Alan McKay
amckay at ottawa.com
http://www.bodensatz.com/






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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:27:44 -0800
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: RIMS thermocouple

Doug,

>Is there any reason not to use thermocouple wire to make my own bi-metal
>junction thermocouple?

I'm behind on my reading.  I've been using K type TC's.  I've been using
a Fluke meter.  I have also put together a RIMS controller that I have not
yet used.  It's based on Watlow PID controller and also uses K-type TC's.
I do not use a temp well, just dunk the TC in the mash or boil.  For my
RIMS I built a fitting that is unique.  I use a T fitting with a 3/8"
compression fitting on one leg.  I used a 000 stopper and cut it so that
it would fit in the compression fitting.  The nut from the compression
fitting helps hold the stopper from blowing out when pressurised.  I then
pushed the TC thru the rubber.  Worked in a static test but I've yet to
test it in the actual (dynamic) RIMS.

I don't see a problem with TC's.  I just think that they're not used more
because people don't know about them.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Brewery
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200



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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:21:06 PST
From: "bryan bonser" <bbonser at hotmail.com>
Subject: Sweet Potato Aroma

I am planning to make a sweet potato lager soon, and my girlfriend insists 
that it will be pointless without that wonderful aroma of freshly roasted 
sweet potatoes in the finished beer.  The trick is to keep this aroma and 
still get the starchy tubers through a full mash and boil.  I am thinking 
that a full-blown triple decoction and relatively short boil will probably 
do the trick to some extent.  Does anybody have any experience or 
conjectures on how to accomplish this?

Kanpai!

Bryan Bonser

______________________________________________________


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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 01:47:32 GMT
From: Bob.Sutton at Fluor.com (Bob Sutton)
Subject: Re: Dry Hopping with Pellets

John Palmer remarked about the suitability of alternate hop forms for
dry-hopping...

>One other point brought up that I forgot to mention is that
>the aroma of whole hops (or plugs) is generally better than
>that of pellets, though there are undoubtedly exceptions
>to the rule on both sides.

Jon - I'm not sure about "the exception to the rule" - but overall my
experience is that you need fewer grams of pellets to achieve the
degree of hoppyness - in contrast to whole hops (and I would suspect
to some degree plugs). The reason is that the hop oils are more
available, due to the rupture of the oil glands when the hops are
processed into plugs. I don't have hard analytical data to back this
up - but it could be fodder for another pale ale experiment (are you
listening in John Varady?).

Cheers!
Bob Sutton
Fruit Fly Brewhaus

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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 20:04:38 -0600
From: Dan Kasen <dkasen at flash.net>
Subject: Subject: Book..... ("Jack Schmidling")



I don't know what Jack Schmidling is drinking but I think that I will
stay away from it.

 - Dan




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