---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Yeast, rants, and science vs. engineering ("Sean Richens")
  Force carbing 5 gallon kegs over time ("Dan Kiplinger")
  foamy StarSan (amgrady)
  Fermenting in garbage cans? (Kurt Kiewel)
  Cider and yeast nutrient ("Dan Kiplinger")
  re: Brewstmas (phil sides jr)
  Aeration and pitching (KMacneal)
  More on Oxygenation ("Kruska, Russ")
  Calcium Sulfate,slow ferment,headaches (Dave Burley)
  Re: BrewTek (HBD # 3168) ("Gordon Strong")
  Dear Santa ("SCHNEIDER,BRETT")
  re: BrewTek, Books by ABG & Startup Brewpubs (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty)
  Brewers Resources, WOTTEN EGG, Yeast for Lager/Steam Beer (RCAYOT)
  Secrets of The Horizontal Pour? (MaltyDog)
  re:winemaking ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  RE: Brewing Poem (John Wilkinson)
  Emril Live Homebrew (Brad Miller)
  Brewer's Resource (John Wilkinson)
  brewtek (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Aerate vs. Non-Aerate/Cask-conditioning... 5 gal in 7.75 gal keg? ("Riedel, Dave")
  Brewstmas List ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Brewstmas ("Sean Richens")
  s. ludwigii (Jim Liddil)
  aha 98 financials (Jim Liddil)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:37:31 -0600
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: Yeast, rants, and science vs. engineering

OK, I can't hold back my $0.02 worth any more:

Miguel gets away with no special aeration steps, others seem to need a bit
of rocket fuel, Molson's depends on oxygenating for the first day of
fermentation (they do exclusively high-gravity - a capital utilization
thing), I'm firmly in the middle.

We all brew within certain limitations - I can't boil more than 17 L, for
one.  But the objective is to make good, no, excellent beer by controlling
the flavour components.  It's important to remember that each flavour
parameter is controlled by several inputs.  I suspect that Miguel doesn't
remove his cold break, so is less oxygen-dependent.  I just remember that
if I plan to do trub removal, then I have to be more serious about oxygen.

The same applies to all of the momily/necessity parameters.  A full wort
boil is not necessary if you understand the implications of a concentrated
boil and control the other parameters to compensate (use Irish moss,
compensate for hop utilization, use a touch less of any caramel malts,
etc.); and so on.

It's engineering, not science.  Controlled experiments are a last resort,
since we have a century and a half of good textbooks to follow.  Start with
a reasonable but not obsessive brew set-up, and taste your beer.  Diacetyl?
 You can adjust fermentation temperature, use a diacetyl rest, rouse your
yeast, switch strains, etc., starting with whatever's most convenient.  And
so on until you're proud of the beer you make and the next potential
improvement is just not worth the cash or the trouble.

Time for another beer,
Sean


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:58:01 -0500
From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com>
Subject: Force carbing 5 gallon kegs over time

Since I haven't carbonated beer by leaving it exposed to CO2 in the fridge
(I usually just shake the s*#! out of it), I was wondering, how many days it
takes for cold beer to come up to the right level of CO2?

If a 5 gallon keg of beer was totally flat, cooled to 39F, and then attached
to the CO2 at 12psig (ProMash CO2 calculator for 2.5 volumes) -- how many
days will it take to carbonate?  I'm guessing 5-7 days.  Am I close?

My Method:
When I keg, I usually hook the CO2 to the liquid out of a corny keg and
bubble it in while gently rocking the keg at a regulated pressure of around
35psig.  The pressure (35psig), according to ProMash, is 7.5psig more than
needed for 2.5volumes.  I continue to gently rock until I have to shake the
keg pretty hard to get the gas to flow in.  Then I chill it overnight and
the next day I shake and shake at about 15 to 20 psig until it tastes right.
That means a lot of wasted CO2 (relieving the pressure to sample out of a
cobra), lots of beer to drink at carbonating time (the beer part isn't so
bad but I'd rather drink it carbonated to the right level), lots of time
(letting it set for 20 min. between "juices"), and lot's of guess-work.  So
this brings me to my experiment.............

I decided to see how much CO2 I could dissolve into the beer right after I
keg it (68F).  I did the usual 35psig into the dip-tube and chilled it in
ice-water to 40F without adding anymore CO2.  The beer was still very flat.
There were some bubbles, but it wasn't even close to the carb level.  This
is when I decided I was going to do one of two things:

1. Determine empirically how much more pressure I would need to use with my
current method (rocking until the beer resists more CO2) to get the chilled
keg "right on" without having to add anymore gas.
2. Just keg the stuff, add a little CO2 to make a good seal, hook it up to
the CO2 tank in the fridge, and wait a few days.

I did not like the first idea of increasing the pressure above 35psig and
from the flatness of the test keg I just did, it would have to be raised a
lot.

Dan from Kalamazoo

PS. Kyle writes: "(forgive the simpleton explanations, I was educated in the
state of Michigan)"
Hey Kyle, where did you go to school?  Delton Community College?  Or were
you referring to one of our many quality Pre-Schools.  ;-)




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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 19:28:48 -0500
From: amgrady at together.net
Subject: foamy StarSan

Dan Ritter writes in hbd #3167 about his 1st experience with StarSan,
and wonders what's up with all the foam!

Dan, the foaming is part of the design of the product, intended for
maximum expansion/coverage in 'clean-in-place' systems.  When I use it,
I always add to the already full soaking vessel/bucket...you can't pour
some in and then add your water - foamover city!

5Star advertises this as no-rinse at concentrations of 200ppm (1oz in 5
gal).  When you don't rinse, you definitely have residual bubbles/foam
in botles, carboy, whatever, just as you note.  I tried the 1st couple
of batches this way, and found the final result to be abnormally hazy,
and also suffering from relatively poor head retention.  These were
standard batches that I had done many times, so although the evidence
was anecdotal, I switched to rinsing.

I really like this product, but I'm not realy sure if it is more
environmentally benign than iodophor...From the 5star web site, StarSan
is "a blend of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid". 
Environmental chemists, step right in!

Matt Grady


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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:37:38 -0600
From: Kurt Kiewel <kiewel at mail.chem.tamu.edu>
Subject: Fermenting in garbage cans?

Dave Burley ferments in plastic covered garbage cans.  Dave, can you tell
us how you sanitize your garbage cans?  I have been shying away from
plastic fermenters because I'm told that scratches can develop in them.
More specifically, non-beer friendly organisms can harbor in the scratches
that can be difficult if not impossible to remove or kill.

Kurt Kiewel



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 01:37:25 -0500
From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com>
Subject: Cider and yeast nutrient

Our homebrew club (KLOB) just presses nearly 2,000 pounds of apples at our
first annual "Klopple press" and I ended up with 20 some gallons to ferment.
Half of this belongs to two friends and I got stuck dealing with it, but
that is another story.

My question is:  The cider is already fermenting away and looking like it
has the potential to go all the way -- but -- I didn't add any yeast
nutrient.
Q1.  Should I add the YN now to salvage the lack thereof?
Q2.  Should I wait until the stuff stalls and then add the YN.
Q3.  Should I just let the shit go and not worry about it? (is shit a
naughty word that shouldn't be used?  I'll wait to have the barrage of
personal emails to let me know).

Dan from the "hand" state


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 02:49:21 -0500
From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net>
Subject: re: Brewstmas

Marc Sedam wishes:

>P.S.  If someone could just sell a new, food grade, high
>temperature mag drive pump for under $100 it would be on my list!

Moving Brews does sell such a pump (a few actually) for less than
$100... I own one ;-)

Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH
- --
Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!



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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:26:43 EST
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Aeration and pitching

I've been getting good results aerating wort by pouring through a large 
strainer after cooling.  Pouring through a strainer gives the added benefit 
of removing hops & hot break.

I have seen the effects of underpitching.  I brewed the same recipe on back 
to back weekends.  The first weekend I was in a bit of a hurry and pitched 
the yeast directly from the smack-pack.  The second weekend I racked the 
first batch into secondary and pitched the second batch onto the yeast cake 
from the first batch.  The second batch had a lower lag time and higher 
attenuation than the first batch.

Normally I follow the suggestions in the homebrewing books and pitch a pint 
of fermenting wort for ales and a quart for lagers.  I've grown yeast 
starters up in 1 gallon of wort for high gravity beers (I allow the yeast to 
settle out and decant most of the liquid before pitching).

I haven't seen any adverse effects from pitching a fresh batch onto the yeast 
cake from a previous batch.  I do this quite frequently.  Oftentimes I'll 
brew a pale ale and then a porter or stout, pitching the darker wort on the 
yeast cake from the pale.  I've find this very helpful for brewing high 
gravity beers.  I've brewed a 'normal' gravity belgian one weekend and 
followed it up with a high gravity belgian the following weekend, or brew an 
IPA one weekend and follow it up with a high gravity scotch ale, or start a 
batch of Oktoberfest and follow it up with a double bock.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 04:32:33 -0800
From: "Kruska, Russ" <R.KRUSKA at CGIAR.ORG>
Subject: More on Oxygenation

I made the switch to pure oxygen and would like
to post the results of the first brew, a porter (1.054).

Our club is really famous for its porters, and we
generally use pale malt, 1/2# chocolate, some amber
malt (aromatic, munich), 1/2# 50L Crystal and 1056
yeast.  Before oxygenation we simply swirled the
carboy, and always had 2-4 week fermentations and
the 1056 always gave us FGs of 1.012-1.014 for brews 
in the 1.050-1.060 range.  Mash temps 150F.

This new oxygenated porter ended at 1.006 and was
extremely DRY.  This was not the character we wanted,
we seemed to lose all of the sweetness of the amber
and crystal malts.  I guess with oxygenation, brewing
techniques also must be changed--we should have mashed
at higher than the 150F we used.  Any comments?

The oxygenated porter also fermented out in 1 week.

Russ
c/o Hoopoe Brewers


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:38:45 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Calcium Sulfate,slow ferment,headaches

Brewsters:

Matt Comstock ponders his long slow
extract fermentation and wonders if it
has anything to do with not adding gypsum.

I don't find 6 days a long time to ferment,
but it will depend on lots of things, like
OG, yeast, temperature,pitching rate.
And if you are normally finished in two
days ( mine never are) then this can give
you pause.

Calcium does affect flocculation in some
yeast, but only versus distilled water and
chances are the wort you have has calcium
in it, as does your water.  In any event,
calcium will have no effect on the
fermentation rate, just possibly clarification rate.

I suspect your problem has to do with
low FANs due to a high added sugar content
in the extract. Add some yeast energiser or
ammonium phosphate which you do not
need to add to an all-grain wort.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------- 

Tony Gallodi asks about yeast rehydration.
Always add dried yeast to water at about 100-110F
or whatever the package says. Allow it to remain
no more than 15 minutes and then pitch it. This
technique will avoid petite bodies and a stuck
fermentation
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Many years ago I used to get blinding headaches
when drinking Black Label while living in Britain.
Even a single bottle would incapicitate me in 30 min.
Turns out it was the cobalt heading agent they
 were using at the time. So Ken, consider any 

additives ( or cleaning agents ) you might be using
in your beer as a candidate. Don't know why in 

beer but people here have reported an allergy
to sulfite which can cause headaches and rashes.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------- 

Keep on Brewin'



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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:11:51 -0500
From: "Gordon Strong" <strongg at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: BrewTek (HBD # 3168)

Brett Spivy asks about experiences with Brewer's Resource (www.brewtek.com).
I've ordered from them three or four times over the past three years.  I've
ordered over the phone and the web.  I've never had any problems and would
order from them again.  I'd probably consider them my first choice for a
web-based order.  I think they have a great selection of equipment.

I've also had good experiences with HopTech (www.hoptech.com), Williams
Brewing (although their web site ordering form needs work), Heart's Homebrew
(great chiller!), and Evergreen Brewing (the only place I could find whole
spalt hops for Al K's altbier last year).  I've also ordered equipment from
Sabco and Cynmar without problems.  Maybe I've been lucky.  Maybe you've
been unlucky.  Dunno.  This is certainly not a statistically valid sample,
but my anecdotal evidence is positive.

I usually order from an online place once or twice a year.  I try to get
most of my supplies locally if possible.  Sometimes I need fairly
specialized/advanced/hard-to-find stuff and that's when I go online.  I'll
put in a plug for my local stores, Belmont Party Supply in Dayton (great
hours) and Listermann Manufacturing in Cincinnati (like visiting Santa's
workshop).  It's also good to have relationships with local breweries and
brewpubs for grain and yeast.

Your milage may vary.  Standard disclaimers apply (no affiliation yada yada,
just a satisfied customer).

Gordon Strong
Beavercreek, OH
strongg at earthlink.net


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:25:21 -0500
From: "SCHNEIDER,BRETT" <SCHNEIDERB at morganco.com>
Subject: Dear Santa

Here's my short list trying to meet the challenge of keeping it below $100
per item. I would find it impossible to keep the total less than $100 and
enjoy myself. And 3 seems 1 too few:

40 lb propane tank (new, since I can't locate any used - HELP?) ~70
Moving Brews Pump 9543FF (at 190F I call it high temp) ~97
SS carbonator dip tubes from Williams Brewing ~25 (?) if memory serves me


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:47:32 GMT
From: mikey at swampgas.com (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty)
Subject: re: BrewTek, Books by ABG & Startup Brewpubs

> Has anyone here had positive experience with BrewTek / Brewer's
> Resource?  I have three purchases under my belt from them and ONE
> marginally positive experience.  Just curious.

I've used them pretty extensiviley for yeast-related stuff and never
had a problem. (I think I may have bought a pot from them too.)
However, because of the distance from here (Covington, LA) I generally
try to use either a local supplier or a closer mail-order place (St.
Pats, in my case).

Cheers -- mikey
***********************************
Go ahead ... try the sauce. The sauce is good. The sauce 


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Date: 12 Nov 1999 08:40:01 -0500
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: Brewers Resources, WOTTEN EGG, Yeast for Lager/Steam Beer

     Recently, Brett A. Spivy asked about Brewers Resources.  I buy my 
     yeast from them on slants.  I have purchased some grain from them 
     also.  I have always been treated fairly, and recieved my murchandise 
     on time.  (no affiliation just a satisfied customer...)
     
     Ken's Wotten Egg problem could be aided by adding ion exchange to his 
     charcoal filtration.  Charcoal is for organics mostly, and the sulfur 
     smell is probably inorganic, like H2S.  (Can H2S be produced as the 
     result of interaction of other Sulfur containing compounds wiht Iron?)
     
     Now to oppening up a hopefully useful conversation herre.  I usually 
     like to brew when I am inspired to brew something for some reason, I 
     recently got inspired to brew three batches of beer, and re-pitch the 
     yeast.  Here is the thread:
     
     1. Brew a batch of Steam Beer, aka California Commmon, use some the 
     the recently mentioned Ashburne Mild Malt, some special B, maybe 
     something else, 45 or so IBU, 1.052 OG.  Use a Lager yeast that is 
     good for both Steam Beer, and Lager, ferment in my usual open 7g 
     bucket with lid fermenter.  When fermentation subsides, rack to a 6.5g 
     carbouy for cold conditioning and dry hopping.
     
     2.  The day of racking, brew a 12-14 gallon batch of Continental Lager 
     (sorry I can't get any closer in style than that!) using Czech Pilsner 
     and small amount of Munich, noble hops, around 40 IBU.  Pitch the 
     yeast form the Steam onto this wort, oxygenate with Oxynator allow to 
     ferment in my half barrel Sankey keg.  when fermentation is completed, 
     get ready to rack to secondary/lagering vessel by transfering to 
     another Sankey keg/fermenter.
     
     3.  Here is the best part.  Brew up a Dopplebock with 50% munich 50% 
     pils malt and use the yeast cake from the Continental Lager!
     
     The reason for doing this is that I have the notion that my lager 
     beers would benefit from higher pitching rate, now I usually pitch a 2 
     or 3 times stepped up starter with plenty of yeast nutrient, aeration 
     etc, but the actual mass of yeast is probably a little low, and I 
     think that is why it takes my lagers a little longer than I would like 
     to ferment, Usually 4 to 6 weeks to get to 90% of where they 
     ultimately end up.  I think this is not only a combination of yeast, 
     but I use my refrigerator without an external temperature controller 
     and the temperature is pretty low (50-53F).  Anyway I was thinking 
     that especially for the dopplebock I would need a lot of yeast and 
     that yeast needs to be in good condition in order to work well.
     
     The quesitons I have are:
     
     A.  What yeast would be good to use for this brewing regiment, 
     something that will work well as a Steam beer yeast, and something 
     that will also work well at lower temperatures.  The yeast will also 
     have to be "well behaved" and settle, not mutate or change, and remain 
     relatively healthy in order to ferment out the final dopplebock.
     
     B.  How does one ensure that the yeast will remain healthy for 
     repitching?  I intend to oxygenate each beer extensively.  Is that 
     enough?  Should the yeast be washed, repitched into a starter before 
     re-pitching into a full batch of wort?
     
     Thanks to all in advance!
     
     Roger Ayotte   


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:55:08 EST
From: MaltyDog at aol.com
Subject: Secrets of The Horizontal Pour?

I recently returned from a trip to Belgium, and I 
was very impressed by the fact that at some of
the best beers bars there (notably the Kuliminator
in Antwerp), corked beers, especially vintage corked
beers, were served horizontally in a basket, like wine.

I picked up a few serving baskets and have been
storing my corked beers in the proper horizontal
position, keeping the corks moist. There's one
little problem I've been having. I have yet to be able
to get a cork off a horizontal bottle without a certain
amount of gushing. this causes several problems; 
you lose some beer, you make a mess (unless you
do it over the sink) and it would seem to be that with 
all that agitation, your sediment gets pretty disturbed
anyway, which makes the careful horizontal storage of
the beer pointless after all this.

I have tried being extremely delicate and careful about
removing the cork, but there's always that moment of
popping it, and it always seems to gush. So I'm 
wondering, and maybe wine drinkers would have a
better idea of this than I, is there some trick to this?
How do you get the cork off without disturbing the sediment?

Thanks for any suggestions on this burning matter--I'm having
a party next weekend where I plan on serving some of my
goodies brought back from Belgium, and I would like to
serve them properly.

Bill Coleman
Brooklyn, NY


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:03:55 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:winemaking

Jack, >>I have to buy something from you and wait a year to
continue this discussion .<<
No you can buy it locally. The discussion is whether wine concentrates 
can
produce something better than a vin ordinaire. They truely can and that 
is
the guarantee I offer at my store, so I do put my money where my mouth 
is.
I am a firm believer in "seeing is believing" that is why I suggested you

try it yourself. The gains in technology in 20 years that have been seen 
in
the extract brewing and yeast management have also been seen in the grape

concentrate industry. Perhaps even moreso because there is more money in
the wine faction, I'd like to see a brewer by a kit for $65 without a
blink. So the whole point in my reaction to you was only to ask that you
not denegrate a product you haven't tried in 20 years. I  could, without
tasting, say, " how good could your wines be, you don't have the weather 
to
fully ripen vinifera or most hybrids, you must chaptilize with white 
sugar
and ameliorate with water or chalk to get your acid levels right," but 
you
make wines that you are happy with and don't need to use concentrates,
fine. That is the point of the hobby, to make something that you can't 
find
in stores, the feeling of "hands on". My customers are happy to take the
time to mix, fine, filter, clean bottles, cork and age to get something
that they feel tastes as good as anything they've bought in a store. One
customer is a wine judge and rated a kit wine of mine as a 7 or 8. But
until you taste one, you're right, you won't believe me. Send me a 
private
mail with your address and I'll get something out to you that is at least


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:52:19 -0600 (CST)
From: John Wilkinson <John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com>
Subject: RE: Brewing Poem

>THAT IS PATHETIC!

>John Wilkinson wrote:
>> 
>> A Brewing Poem by,
>> 
>> George Arnold 1834-1865 (short but happy life?)
>> 

That was my wife that said that beautiful and well written masterpiece,
Brewing Poem, was pathetic.  She sent it to me and must have copied the list.
But she was an Eglish Lit. major so what does she know about poetry.  She
doesn't even appreciate Robert Service and Rudyard Kipling.
Other than that she is perfect.



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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:03:30 -0800
From: Brad Miller <millerb at targen.com>
Subject: Emril Live Homebrew

	The other day while watching food TV one of their chef's, Emril
Laggasse, had a pub special.  He made "pub food" and even went as far as to
make "beer".  Normaly this guy is sweet, at least with food.  The beer
though is another issue.  Each step he did was wrong and detremental to the
beer.  Did anyone else see this?  It would be a good one to watch out for
to have a good laugh or get mad at.



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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:42:06 -0600 (CST)
From: John Wilkinson <John.Wilkinson at aud.alcatel.com>
Subject: Brewer's Resource

Brett Spivy asked if anyone had had positive experience with Brewer's Resource.
I can say that I have.  I have bought quite a bit of hops and some equipment
from them, although not recently, and have had no problems.  I would trade with
them again.



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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:22:44 -0800
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: brewtek

> From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com>

> Has anyone here had positive experience with BrewTek / Brewer's
> Resource?  I have three purchases under my belt from them and ONE
> marginally positive experience.  Just curious.

Yes, I have turned to them several times for specialty malts not carried by
my local brewstore (mostly Belgian).  I have always had smooth dealings with
them.  

I respond not because I think they are especially good, since I haven't had
enough experience for that, but because I am concerned how much louder
unsatisfied customers tend to be than satisfied customers.
- -- 
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at stanford.edu


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:31:06 -0800
From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: Aerate vs. Non-Aerate/Cask-conditioning... 5 gal in 7.75 gal keg?

Well, now things are picking up aren't they?

HBD#3167 Spencer rants (to a minor extent):

"Every time I read a post that says "I've never tasted the effects of
<insert your favorite brewing practice ("bad" or "good") here> in my
beer," I want to scream.  Maybe you haven't.  But that doesn't mean
it's not there!"

Then, in HBD#3169, Paul ups the ranting slightly and responds:

"If you want to believe that your beer actually has flaws in it that you 
cannot perceive, and if you insist on agonizing about boogy men that just 
are not there, go ahead and continue to live a frustrated life.  But 
please dont tell me that my beer is flawed even though I (or anyone else 
without an anal complex) cant taste it."

This is probably a bad decision on my part, but I'm going to step into
the ring (I'll probably get hit over the head by someone yielding the
coffee-table version of Kunze).  Paul, I think you slightly misunderstood
Spencer.  When he says "that doesn't mean it's not there", he is not
saying that it absolutely IS there.  He's just saying that Miguel's
personal palate data-point may not be all that valid.  He is certainly
NOT saying that everyone's beer is crappy unless verified as good by a big
panel of experts.

My experience with aeration is this:  I used to aerate with the
venturi-tube, shake method.  I made what I feel are good beers.  However, I
found
that I had a fairly regular problem with under-attenuation.  I surmised
that a likely cause of this was lack-of-oxygen at pitching time.  So, I
began to aerate with oxygen after pitching.  My beers now seem to ferment
more quickly and more completely.  So, for my process, I believe that
aeration is an important step.

The key here, however, is that there is no need to change your procedure
unless you perceive a problem in your final product.  Miguel is happy
with his beer without aeration.  I think that's great... don't change a
thing.  If you think that your beer is not quite turning out the way
you would like it to, then perhaps aeration might be something for you
to try. 
- -----------------------------
I just picked up a 7.75gal Golden Gate keg that I plan to do gravity
fed cask ales in (yum!).  If I don't want to make a 7.5+ gal batch, 
can I simply make a 5 gal batch and prime at a higher level to make
up the larger head-space or am I going to suffer other problems?

Anybody doing this sort of thing?

cheers and happy brewing,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Canada.


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:49:16 -0800
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: Brewstmas List

Since Marc asked:

I can't live without:

1) My keg setup-- pricey at $110 - 200 (depending on where you go and
what you want)
2) My outdoor propane cooker, $35 - 65. (If you're not brewing outdoors,
you should for a number of reasons.)
3) My 6.5 gallon fermenter, $18 - 30.
4) My grain mill-- I use a PhilMill, but for homebrew applications, I
don't think there's much difference among the many fine mills out there
(hope I didn't just start something).  Something like $60 - 130
(depending on which one you get).

Unfortunately, my wants are all things that I want to build, so there's
not much point in putting them on my list.

Rick



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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 18:10:26 -0600
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: Brewstmas

For my druthers, I would go with:

 - peristaltic pump (if I ever find one under $100)
 - keg fridge/lager season extender

In the over $100 category, my wish list is:

 - basement

Sean


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 20:34:18 -0500
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu>
Subject: s. ludwigii


> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 05:15:23 +0000
> From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Low/No alcohol beer
> 
> RJ asks about making a low or no alcohol all-grain beer.  I looked into
> this subject last winter.  If the archives are up again there is a lot of
> info there on the subject.  If not go back to Home Brew Digests on about
> February 17, 18 or 19th and pick up on a thread about the subject of
> removing alcohol from beer.
> 
> Once, when on vacation in Koblenz, Germany I had the pleasure of drinking
> quite a few dark Malz Biers.  I told my wife that I could really drink
> these German beers without any noticable effect only to find out later
> that Malz Bier contains no alcohol.  Regardless, that beer was good.  It
> was malty, sort of sweet, dark and had a great head.  Last spring while
> in Holland I again tried some Malz Bier but, alas, the beer was just like
> American NA beer.
> 
> I asked Siebel about German Malz Biers last spring and Joe Power was nice
> enough to answer.  Joe says traditional German Ludwig's beer, going back
> to the nineteenth century, was made by fermenting wort with Ludwig's yeast
> (Saccharomycodes ludwigii).  This yeast cannot ferment maltose so it
> produces low levels of alcohol.  For a 10 to 12 Plato wort the alcohol
> would be under 2% w/w.  Joe says beers fermented by this yeast taste
> pretty good albiet somewhat sweet.
> 
> I asked Wyeast if they could provide this yeast.  They can but initial
> costs would be around $200.  As I understand it they would maintain the
> yeast and you could place an order for it through your homebrew shop as
> usual.  I'm interested in trying this out but the initial cost is pretty
> steep.  If one or more homebrewers would like to try it perhaps a
> Ludwig's yeast consortium could be formed.  If anyone is interested let
> me know.
> 
> RJ...This might not solve your diabetic friend's problem since maltose
> would be left over in the beer and that's probably a no-no for his/her
> diet.
> 
>         Bill Frazier
>         Johnson County, Kansas
> 


I got my hands on the S. ludwigii and have grown it up. I plan to feeze it
and have it stored for me.  At this point I think I will prepare some for
storage in sterile water.  I really have not method in place for
distribution of this strain. Interested parties can contact me and we can
try to work out something.  

Jim Liddil


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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 20:45:03 -0500
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu>
Subject: aha 98 financials

the AHA is swamped so I thought I'd post this here befor eit appears on
their web site.
				
				
Revenues	98 final

Membership	 $471,997.64 
Advertising	 $123,092.42 
Magazine Listing	 $22,794.00 
Magazine Sales	 $116,409.63 
BP Merchandise	 $218.33 
HBSC Membership	 $815.84 
Conference	 $35,867.08 
NHC	 $37,501.64 
Sponsorship	 $4,669.50 
Clubs	 $644.00 
Big Brew	 $-   
Sanctioned Comp. Prog.	 $5,411.75 
Miscellaneous	 $(106,865.22)
	
total	 $712,556.61 
	
Expenses	
	
Marketing	 $84,758.08 
Zymurgy	 $330,918.25 
Research	 $53.70 
Conference	 $70,310.36 
NHC	 $44,807.91 
Retailers	 $376.51 
Clubs	 $8,730.36 
TechTalk	 $1,569.94 
Maps On Tap	 $3,008.14 
Sanctioned Comp. Prog	 $5,461.33 
AHA Judging	 $10,660.29 
Legalization	 $2,237.57 
Big Brew	 $-   
Overhead	 $90,344.80 
	
total	 $653,237.24 

Overhead includes salaries not attributed to individual programs for
divisional, customer service,	
Info services and events staff, taxes, supplies, postage, copies and
miscellaneous.	

Overhead does not include rent, utilities, maintenance, administrative
salaries, reserve expenses.	

98Miscellaneous revenue was charge backs by Ingram distributing	



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