HOMEBREW Digest #3172 Thu 18 November 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Eng & sci ("Sean Richens")
  keg questions answered, kettle questions next (Randy Miner)
  Dry ice ("Dan Kiplinger")
  The Bob's of Texas - responses ("John Stegenga")
  pH testing advice ("Jay White")
  plastic ("John S. Thomas")
  Summer brewing ("Darren Robey")
  Star San / Emeril / S. Ludwigii ("Luke Van Santen")
  post-brewing repairs (Marc Sedam)
  151 rum & splashing ("Doug Moyer")
  Foamless in Idaho, Taste design (Dave Burley)
  RE: starting siphons (Demonick)
  Re: Basic Questions ("Jeffry D Luck")
  St. Pat's/Briess Golden Lager ("St. Patrick's")
  corks/yeast ("David Kerr")
  Pronunciation ("Werrbach, Maria")
  RE: system queries! ("Nigel Porter")
  It's Science VS Engineering! Decoction Mashing! (RCAYOT)
  Cask-conditioning (RiedelD)
  Re: Flavor Balance Equation (Project One)
  Muntons wheat malt (Liz Blades)
  Re: FWH ("Robert J. Waddell")
  Details - killing bugs, units ("Sean Richens")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:56:23 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Eng & sci Thanks for gently toasting me, rather than giving me the 200,000 BTU flame! I stand unrepentant, though. We USE science, we don't DO science (except for some dedicated souls whose postings we print out and file XOXOXOXO to you). Where I ended up in private correspondance with Rod is that there is a lot of voodoo among homebrewers. For example, I use Irish Moss in every batch. I've never made a batch without it. That's not a very scientific attitude. I'm afraid that if I left it out I'd make 6 USG of beer my friends wouldn't touch just because it looks funny. That's voodoo - make the appropriate sacrifices and hope the brew gods smile on you. Engineering is listing all that science can tell you about a problem that exists (not phantom fears), ranking them as to how each corresponding change would quantitatively (as in "a bit" and "loads") improve things, then deciding which one has the best potential for results divided by hassle. There's a saying "Farmers make wine, engineers make beer." I like wine, too. I make crappy wine, but good beer. Prost! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:54:35 -0500 From: Randy Miner <randyminer at mpinet.net> Subject: keg questions answered, kettle questions next Hello HBD, I received many good suggestions regarding my C-keg questions. I wanted a way to easily connect various things to my CO2 source, such as 3/8 tubing, 1/4 tubing, and liquid or gas ball disconnects. The solution I went with was to use some quick disconnect fittings which are available with the compressor accessories at the local Home Depot Super Mega Store, and pretty cheap too. I put a female end on the CO2, and a couple of male ends with hose barbs, so I can put CO2 into my carboy, push beer out of it, etc. I'm not worried as much about oxygen contact, I just like to do it this way instead of siphoning. More use for gadgets, and less wear on my back lifting a full carboy. I also received several warnings concerning pressurizing the carboy. It makes sense, and I will be very careful with this. I may just gently hold the vinyl hose to the long orange cap nipple, or put it on loosely so that it is unlikely to build much pressure. I also plan on pushing the beer very slowly. Has anyone ever actually caused a carboy to burst by pressurizing it? (Other than a clogged blowoff tube) It might be a good idea to have a T-shirt over it during these operations... I would be interested to see how many psi a carboy could take, but I don't want to donate my carboys! I boiled in my converted sanke for the first time. I also used my homemade hopback for the first time. The problem I had with the kettle was that the drain clogged. I had a 1/2" pipe in the side then a 90 degree down to the bottom center. I stuck a big stainless steel scrubbie around it, and tied it down w/ a piece of copper wire as best I could. Well, I think the pellet hops I used in the kettle clogged the scrubber around the sides, and it ended up sucking air from the top while there was still several inches of wort in there. I could not get it to go, and had to do lots of unsanitary messing around to get the rest out of the kettle. Do others use a scrubber as a filter and avoid this problem? Could I have been pulling it out too fast? Is a valve/tube clamp needed to keep the flow slow? I assume I'd have to put it near the low end of the tubing so I don't get air coming up the hose when the flow is too slow? Is the only solution to use whole hops? I also had some hopback questions. I use a mason jar. I took a copper plate (about 1/8" thk), cut it to fit inside the lid ring, and soldered some pipe nipples on it that fit tightly inside 3/8 tubing. I am having trouble getting this lid (copper plate) to seal against the jar. I used teflon tape wrapped around the edge of the plate, so that it formed a teflon surface between the plate and the glass edge. The tape wraps over the edge and lays against the top and bottom surfaces of the plate around the edge. Anyone know of a better way to get a good seal? Also, I can't see how to avoid leaving a cup or more of wort in the mason jar. Thanks, Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 00:57:53 -0500 From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com> Subject: Dry ice I asked earlier about different methods of force carbonating brew in 5 gallon kegs (I have received only limited inputs via personal email so send anything you got). I have been mulling over this for a while. It would be great to have the beer cool quickly (after being kegged) and have it carbonated and ready to drink in hours. To do this I have seen no other way other than an ice-water bath and a sore arm. Then I came up with this idea: What about dry ice? There has to be an easy calculation on the weight of dry ice needed to carbonate 5 gallons of beer. I realize that this is an extra expenditure but I have a place nearby that sells the stuff and it is relatively cheap. Before I spend much time investigating this, I wanted to ask the collective for any previous experiments or success with carbonating with dry ice. Dan in the best deer hunting state of the Union. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 00:57:04 -0500 From: "John Stegenga" <bigjohns at mindspring.com> Subject: The Bob's of Texas - responses In HBD #3170, Bob of Texas wrote: Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 11:24:13 EST From: RobertS735 at aol.com Subject: Basic Questions Dear Brewing community.... I have some basic questions, and I would appreciate hearing opinions on them: Q1. Why do we say that a sanitizing boil is 20 minutes in duration? Is there a study somewhere that has experimented on this? What I mean is; do I really have to boil my priming water and sugar for 20 minutes? What about 15 or 12? Same question on chlorine bath... if I make the bath with relatively more chlorine can it be quicker? A1. I think '20 minutes' is one of those rule of thumb things. I know that certain microorganisms can survive a boil for a short period, but not being a micro-biologist I can't comment more certainly than this. I can tell you that chlorine is more effective in low concentrations than in high - which is why you almost always dilute it for all sorts of cleaning purposes. I believe that the Clorox company recommends 1 tablespoon per gallon as a no rinse sanitizer. Remember, we're not making them sterile, just killing the worst nasties. Q2. First Wort Hopping: Am I missing something here or is the only difference between a FWH schedule and a "normal" schedule that you put the hops into the wort before it begins to boil-as opposed to waiting for the boil to begin- then adding the hops? A2. I believe that this is almost correct. Again, just my opinion, but I think FWHops are when you add the finishing hops to whatever vessel you run your wort into from the lautertun, where the 150(f)+/- wort is exposed to them. They are then added to the kettle and it's then boiled for the duration. Q3. Aeration or Oxidation.... when racking wort into the fermenter should I let the hose run down the side of the fermenter and smoothly spread out - thus maximizing the surface area in order to aerate... or do I aim that sucker right down the middle making a big splash? Which seems better? A3. I have a piece of plastic at the end of my hose that has some holes drilled in it. It causes AIR to suck into the syphon. The end of the plastic is pinched so as to cause the wort to spray out in a couple of streams. This results in about 2 inches of foam on top of the racked wort. I have difficulty getting the BIG SPLASH method to work because the height differential is not great enough (only a couple feet). Q4. Reference above #3 which "splash pattern" is better when racking from finished fermenter to bottling bucket to avoid oxidation? A4. No splash at all. I lay the hose into the bottom of the bucket. It causes the wort to swirl a bit to help stir the priming mixture. Q5. I still use my mouth to start the siphon.... is this a cardinal sin? 39 batches so far- no apparent contamination. A5. I invert my racking cane and fill the hose/cane with water. The only hard part is keeping the hose plugged / clamped so that the water does not leak. WHen the water drains from the hose it starts the syphon. I only loose about 2-3 ounces of beer this way. Q6. Can I split the boil of my 6.5 gallon wort (after the sparge) into two batches so they boil faster and thus save time? Should I re-join them after the cooling and before pouring or racking into fermenter or pour one then the other? A6. I don't think this will result in proper hopping. I suppose if you did split it the exact same way you could experiment and find a way to make this work, but I think it would be too hard to do. Just MY opinion. Q7. Can you infer, or even deduce, something (anything) from the nature of the finished beer by looking or smelling the blow-off? I love the way this stuff smells, as does my SO. Too bad it dosen't have a better use. Q8. Dump the blowoff into your compost heap, unless you run the blowoff hose into bleach water. You'll have the richest compost in the neighborhood. Ideas? opinions? all welcomed and if I get any private replies I will consolidate into a post. thanks. call me Bob in Texas OK, you're BOB in Texas. John AKA Bigjohn Atlanta, GA, USA. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 02:04:14 -0500 From: "Jay White" <jwhite at snip.net> Subject: pH testing advice I have hard municipal water with a median pH of 7.2, so I typically Brita filter and mix with bottled spring water when brewing. When brewing English ales I use Burton salts, Epsom salt, and Morton's salt to treat the water. I'm worried about the pH being off for my sparge water and realizing harsh tannins. My question is that I want to test the treated/blended water - and I hate the pH paper tests! - so I'm looking for reasonably priced alternatives such as a good quality electronic pH meter. Does anyone have a good source or other ideas? Thanks Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:56:55 -0800 From: "John S. Thomas" <jthomas at iinet.com> Subject: plastic Hey guys, plastic works great with and without scratches. And as a matter of fact so does stainless steel. What does one do with a ss fermentor that gets scratched because some goof ball drops a valve inside? Same as with plastic. Smooth it our or in the case of ss grind it out and use hot water (140 degrees or higher) to sterilize after using any of the other types you may prefer such as bleach, hot caustic, five star and on and on. I have an axe to grind, I sell plastic fermentors. John Thomas Hobby Beverage Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:53:19 +1000 From: "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au> Subject: Summer brewing OK all you northern types coming out of summer and heading into winter, What sort of fermented beverages do people make over summer that are suited to fermenting at the higher temperatures experienced? Here in Australia we're talking days of 30 Celsius and over so with the techniques of cooling including the wet towel, the high 20's are about as good as it gets without a fridge dedicated to fermenters (which I intend to buy one day). So my question is... what can I make that would be suited to this temp. I'm talking beer styles, strains of yeast as well as all other manners of fermented beverages. Looking forward to your ideas, as I may well have done my last mash brew until things cool down a little. Darn good I have a good supply! Darren Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 06:15:47 -0600 From: "Luke Van Santen" <Luke.VanSanten at dot.state.mn.us> Subject: Star San / Emeril / S. Ludwigii All - Star San and its non foaming brother Saniclean are the best sanitizers I have ever used. I have no affiliation, just used them in a previous life. PBW is good too (doesn't work as well as caustic, but doesn't hurt you as bad as caustic either). I was wondering, what quantities do you get them in? I feel the quantities offered in HB stores are inadequate, especially when the prices are as high as they are. I tried to get a gallon from fivestar, but ran into problems (their perceived liability). Any good sources out there? I too saw the Emeril show about pub food (GOTTA make that ploughman's lunch!). The homebrew section was pretty half-assed (several mistakes/misspeaks from Emeril). Which can be expected - he doesn't know brewing. While the next part can be expected as well, it was much harder to swallow. Garrett Oliver (Brooklyn Brewery) was Emeril's guest (my good friend Garrett was what Emeril kept saying) and did not do much to correct Emeril (at least not that was televised). A sad conundrum. Get the attention for homebrewing, but let several myths and mistakes be perpetuated. If only the common man and woman could be easily educated. Jim Liddil - I would be interested in some S. Ludwigii. How much? Luke Van Santen St. Louis Park, MN Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 08:39:31 -0500 From: "Steve Ashton" <sashton at metlife.com> Subject: HOPPIEST SHOW OF THE MILLENNIUM IS NEARLY HERE! WHAT'S BREWING? The Hoppiest Show of the Millennium is less than three weeks away! If you haven't started brewing your award-winning entries, there's no time like the present. The deadline for entries is Nov. 30th. The Hoppiest Show of the Millennium is PALES ALES' third annual AHA-sanctioned contest, and will be held on Saturday, December 4th, 1999 at River Horse Brewing in Lambertville. The competition is under new management this year, and our goal for this year's competition is to focus on the basics - giving good feedback to brewers and recognizing outstanding brews. Meads and beers will be judged this year (but no wines. AHA style guidelines will be used. Check out our web site at http://brewmiester_2.tripod.com/ for more information, online judging forms, style guidelines, etc., or contact one of the competition adminstrators (contact information provided at the end of this message). VOLUNTEERS We are currently looking for volunteers to work in the competition. If you would like to volunteer for the competition as either staff, steward, or judge, please contact Kevin Trayner or Steve Ashton (contact information follows at the bottom of this message). LAST YEAR'S BJCP POINTS In related news, this year's organizers have submitted BJCP points for all of the judges, stewards, and staff (to the best of our knowledge) from last year's competition. This information has been submitted to the BJCP and they should be crediting all qualified participants. See the contest web page for a list of participants at http://brewmiester_2.tripod.com/Contest/98part. html. - ---------------------- CONTEST DETAILS This is an AHA-sanctioned competition, which will use AHA style guidelines. 1. Each entry will be made with two (2) bottles, 12 to 16 ounces, free of labels, with plain or blackened crown caps. No raised lettering/symbols on the bottles. 2. All entries must be received by November 30th, 1999. Entries can be shipped/dropped off at: River Horse Brewing, 80 Lambert Lane, Lambertville, NJ 08530 (609) 397-7776 www.riverhorse.com Princeton Homebrew, 148 Witherspoon St, Princeton, NJ 08542 (609) 252-1800 Hop & Vine 1271 U.S. Hwy 22 Lebanon, NJ 08833 (908) 236-6349 3. Categories may be collapsed at the discretion of the competition director. 4. Score sheets will be mailed out to the participants after the competition. 5. Competition open to all homebrewers. Beers produced in a commercial establishment will not be accepted. 6. All entries become the property of the PALE ALES. 7. Attach your entry fee in check or money order payable to PALE ALES. $5 for the first entry, $4 for subsequent entries. - ---------------------- CONTACT INFORMATION Competition Director Kevin Trayner 609-890-8611 ktrayner at rocketmail.com Judge Director/Steward Coordinator Steve Ashton 908-253-2617 ashtonbru at aol.com Assistant Organizer Judi Cox rvrr5K at webtv.net Entry Coordinator Al Bocardo 609-584-1611 anjifelal at erols.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:15:47 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: post-brewing repairs I recently brewed three beers out of a single mash using the no-sparge technique: a bock, a Vienna lager, and what I'm calling an American Mild. The bock and Vienna came out just fine and are fermenting away happily. My problem is with the American Mild (O.G. 1.035). I was so happy to produce five gallons each of three different beers that I spaced out when it came to adding the hops. I FWH'd with an ounce of Cascade (alpha ~4.5%). Once the boil got moving I (stupidly) added 0.5 oz of Centennial (alpha ~10%) at the start. I did add some flavor and aroma additions too, but the bitterness from these are negligible. Even being a hophead, the beer is a touch too bitter. Well, it's more unbalanced than too bitter. Fortunately it wound up a bit under-attenuated, which helps. Question: What can I do to this beer to help balance out the bitterness? I thought about adding 4oz of maltodextrin powder to bump the sweetness back up again, but was unsure if I'd just wind up with a sweet and bitter beer. Any thoughts? Cheers! Marc Sedam "Huisbrouwerij Zuytdam" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:15:03 -0500 From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> Subject: 151 rum & splashing Subject sounds like a beach party... Hmmm... Scott Birdwell sez: "Perhaps you should gargle with 151 rum just prior to sucking on that syphon hose." If you are that concerned, you better gargle for 15 minutes. Otherwise you might as well just take a shot to "relax and don't worry", because you aren't sanitizing. I start the siphon with my mouth, but I do it to fill the tube up with sanitizer. I then clamp off the hose and put the end I sucked upon back in the sanitizer. When I am ready to transfer the beer, I stick one end in the beer, unclamp the other end and let it flow into a bucket until it flows all beer. I then put the end on the bottom of my receiving vessel. Use a flavorless no-rinse sanitizer, though, since a small amount will inevitably drain into the beer when you stick the racking cane in. Bob in Texas asks about pouring straight into the fermentor versus a wide spread down the side of the fermenter. We had that same question come up this weekend. When you pour straight down, you get more bubbles, but they are much larger. When you spread out the flow on the side, you get very fine bubbles. The purpose is to maximize the dissolved oxygen. Intuitively I would say that the wide pattern on the side is getting more DO, because of the small bubbles. Small bubbles means a larger ratio of surface area of beer to volume enclosed--i.e., more contact. Anyone with a DO meter want to do a quick test? Bob, my suggestion is to invest the spare change in the couch on one of the little plastic gadgets that disperses the flow in a conical pattern. That way, you combine the wide spray with the drop through the air. It doesn't compare with pure O2, but for the money & effort, you can't beat it. You could also add a few holes to the end of the hose (above the spray widget) for that venturi effect. I would still rock the fermentor gently for five or ten minutes, though. Just look at all the tiny bubbles that get created when you rock it! The more tiny bubbles, the better, huh? (Just be safe about it--I used to lay back on my hammock with the carboy on my belly to remove an risk of dropping it. Now I just use O2....) Brew on! Doug Moyer Salem, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:41:15 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Foamless in Idaho, Taste design Brewsters: Doug Marion describes a batch which showed no foam when oxygenated or fermenting and asks what could cause this. Perhaps Foaming Star-San on his first time use? I'd let the manufacturer answer this with some authority, but defoamers can take several forms. All of them are surface active, if not the classical "Oil upon the waters" Too many lipids may defoam, although I have never had such a problem, oats are commonly blamed for introducing oils to a brew and defoaming it. Did you use oats in your ESB? A surfactant is an an abbreviation for a "surface active agent" and as such can typically lower the surface tension. You need to lower the surface tension as one component to get a stable foam. If the surface tension is too low (one method of defoaming) then the foam may not be stable. So on certain special occasions what may be a foaming agent by itself, in conjunction with other components may be a defoamer by reducing the surface tension so much it cannot support a film. There are anionic and cationic and non-ionic surfactants. An anionic and a cationic can in fact kill each other and the combination will be useless as surfactant. Typically cationic (which can be disinfectants in some cases) surfactants are used in acidic environments and anionics are used in basic environments. Each may be combined with a non-ionic to boost the strength in a cleansing formulation. A long answer to your question. A surfactant which causes foaming in one circumstance may cause defoaming in another depending on pH, other surfactants and the like. The real test will be when you pour that first glass. - -------------------------------------------------------- I would like to encourage Martin Brungard's suggestion for a discussion on designing a balanced beer, as I haver never read a full discussion of such an activity. My knowledge of this area is incomplete as I have picked up pieces from lots of areas, don't know if terms are rigorously defined, and I have used my winetasting experience and chemical background to guide me. It is not as simple as bitterness versus sweet, as Martin suggests, as these are not antipodes on the taste scale in my opinion. Acidity has to be brought in here also and bitterness is often chemically suggested as the antipode of sour. But bitterness actually has two locations in the mouth. Front of the tongue ( bitter 1) and in the soft palate ( bitter 2). Bitter 1 is often associated wth mineral bitterness and I suspect is the antipode of acidity. Bitter 2 is often associated with organic bittering components like tannins and the like. Other components also interact. Is there a flavor wheel for beer similar to that used in winemaking? Beer is a complex beverage as the state of the conditioning affects the organoleptic qualities,as many know a flat beer just doesn't taste as good as a cold, properly conditioned one. Especially, when you are cleaning up the pizza boxes and empty bottles and cans the next morning. Protein content is often thought to be the major component in stabilizing foam. Foam in the mouth seems to contribute to this fullness but I have never seen a discussion of flat versus conditioned same-beer tasting and its impact on tasting components. A full mouth is also thought to be from dextrins, but is often denied in professional texts and experiments have shown this to be not true. What appears to affect the "mouth" is proteins again. However, in wines, tannins also affect the mouth fullness and I suspect tannins from hops and other bittering components contribute to the feeling of a full mouth. Likely some of the mineral components interact. Tannins and proteins interact as we all know. Is this the chemical origin of bitterness in our mouth? Let's clarify astringency versus bitterness in beer, as suggested by Charles Rich some time ago. I doubt I can, except as a matter of intensity? In the chemical world alum is an astringent and hydroxides are bitter. Does this same parallel hold in beer? What is an example of an astringent agent in beer? Would anyone care to comment on the distinction between bitter 2 and astringency? Let's try to ferret out these areas. BJCP judges may have more access to this kind of information than others. Please share it. Keep on Brewin' Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 06:53:07 -0800 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: RE: starting siphons I too use my mouth to start siphons, and I use a hose extension. It's a 3 foot long piece of plastic tubing whose ID is the same as the OD of my siphon tube. One end is marked (black sharpie) and this is the mouth end. Jam the siphon hose into the extension and suck. Pinch off the siphon hose and pull off the extension. No spit in the brew. Drop the extension into the ubiquitous bucket of iodophor so it's ready for the next use. BTW - I was recently in New Orleans, a beer wasteland. Bud, Bud-Lite, Miller, Miller-lite, with the imports being Coors and Coors-lite. Abita was available in many places. Someone needs to tell Abita about hops. Apparently they don't know that you can add them to beer. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com Return to table of contents
Date: 17 Nov 1999 10:18:26 -0700 From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com> Subject: Re: Basic Questions Hey, I actually know one! Q1 from Robert at ... I've heard it this way: If you are using municipal water, it has probably been treated with clorine, and the brewing process will tend to concetrate clorine flavor. A 20 minute boil of your brew water is long enough to drive off the clorine and leave you with sanitized clorine-free water. I know of a clean water artesian spring in my area and use this water for brewing. That way I only need to bring the water to a boil to kill off all the nasties, and it's ready. For priming water, there probably isn't enough clorine there to make a difference. I never measured the clorine I used in sanitizing water. About two glugs from the clorine bottle into a full sink seemed right. Then there was the 'rinse 3 times with tap water' rule with anything that went into the clorine water. I've since moved to Iodine for sanitizing, and it's more of a 'rinse once, if you feel like it' system. Really much easier, and has cut about an hour out of prepping bottles for 10 gallons. Hope this helps. Jeff Luck Salt Lake City, UT USA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:00:20 -0500 From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com> Subject: St. Pat's/Briess Golden Lager Jeff's comments about the lack of corn flavor in beers using corn sugar is absolutely on the mark. As I have been preaching in my catalog of at least 5 years now, you must mash with corn to get corn flavor. Corn sugar and corn syrup simply won't give you the flavor. Jeff's interpretation of the data on the Briess web site is indeed correct. The CURRENT extract produced by Briess named Golden Lager is indeed produced by blending pale malt extract with brewers corn syrup. However, the Golden Lager extract produced by Briess until early this year WAS NOT A BLEND, BUT WAS IN FACT PRODUCED BY MASHING CORN WITH BARLEY MALT. The extract sold by St. Pat's under the name 'American' is this extact but it is gone save a few pounds. The William's extract that Jeff Renner referred to was also the same thing. This leaves me in a bit of a bind because, like Jeff says, you aren't going to get the proper flavor profile with a blend of corn syrup and pale extract for American or Mexican beers. Briess is considering producing the old version of the extract again but the problem is that outside of St. Pat's, not much of the stuff is sold. The William's extract, that Jeff says they no longer carry, was indeed the same stuff from Briess. Lynne O'Connor St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply http://www.stpats.com 512-989-9727 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:51:48 -0500 From: "David Kerr" <dkerr at semc.org> Subject: corks/yeast I believe that Ommegang recommends storing their corked bottles vertically, which makes the expression "laying down" beer for extended aging all the more confusing to me. A British friend of mine who has been to Belgium several times decants Dubbles to a pitcher, then serves the yeast sediment on the side in shot glasses. He claims this to be a fairly common practice in taverns in Brussels. Dave Kerr - Needham, MA "It looked to me like Knobby tagged the runner" - Tim Tschida Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:10:51 -0600 From: "Werrbach, Maria" <mwerrbach at mail.elgin.cc.il.us> Subject: Pronunciation Fuggles. Does the 'fug' part rhyme with rug, or is it more like the sound in feud (long u sound) ? It isn't in the dictionary and there is a small wager on it. Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:23:14 -0000 From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: RE: system queries! >Remember the difficulty NASA got into mixing >measuring types - can we keep everything English or >Metric _in the same post?_ (ie: pounds/liters, below) >>2)Commonly- the initial rest temp.( for home brewers) is achieved >>by starting with a known water Vol.+ a known grain Vol. >>(usually at a pound of grain per liter of water) producing an >Bob Sheck Thats nothing, for my mash thickness I usually use around 1/2 (UK) Gallon per kg. Nigel Return to table of contents
Date: 17 Nov 1999 09:36:23 -0500 From: RCAYOT at solutia.com Subject: It's Science VS Engineering! Decoction Mashing! I think we hit this one pretty hard recently. I think someone hit the nail on the head when they called homebrewing a CRAFT! Look at it this way, The intensive German method of tripple decoction mashing, producing some of the greatest beers was developed because it was a way to make beer without the need for measuring temperature accurately! All that was needed wa sto ake the mash to "blood" temperature (protein rest?) then take a protion of the mash out, heat it up gradually, boil it, then add it back to the rest mash. If doen carefully, this will hit the correct mash temperature right on the money because a given measure of mash at a constant temperature (boiling) will have a fixed amount of heat and raise the given amount of rest mash to exactly the same temperature every time if the amounts are controlled. So in an ancient brewery, only teh ability to accurately RE_MEASURE the same amount every time would be all that was necessary to make beer! This is surely engineering! However, they also didn't even know what yeast was and called it something akin to "god is good" Surely the development of knowledge of yeast biology etc, is science, and has made contributions to improve all of our brewing! As for bucket brewing, in the old days, I used to make beer in a 32 gallon rubbermaid trash barrel. I would make 24 gallons, primary in the barrel, and secondary in two five gallon and two seven gallon carboys. By todays standards, the beer was really bad! I think this wa so because of the procedures we used.... old extract, partial boil, and precious little dry yeast! Today, I use that same barrel to store my "clean" plastic fermenters in. I also use it to sanitize my plastic fermenters by filling it with water treated with bleach, and submersing my entire seven or sixteen gallon FOOD GRADE plastic fermenters in it overnight. I believe this method of sanitizing is adequate, especially since I pitch plenty of healthy yeast. Open (that is covered but not sealed) fermentation is perfectly suitable for both ale and lager brewing. (If you don't believe me, log on to St. Pats brewing supplies (STPATS.COM) and look at the pictures from a recent trip to the Czech republick! The comments are that most of the breweries there use open fiberglass lined fermenters!) Kevin or Darla Elsken asked about decoction mashing, all I can say is that it is very difficult to measure exactly! You need to develop a method that worksd for you and your set-up. For instance, I use a metal strainer for pulling my decoctions, I pull three heaping straniners full and transfer to my boiling vessel. I usually add some water to this to loosen it up a little, but when done the heat/boil program, I add this back to my rest mash, and if the temperature isn't exactly right, then you need to have a couple of gallons of boiling water and a gallon or so of cold brewing water on hand for temperature adjustments! Stir in and measure the temperature! If your mash vessel has direct heating capability then hjust turn on the heat! The trick is to keep good records of your "measures" of decoction, and the temperatures you hit when adding it back, pover time you will get very very close to where you want to be! Until then, just be prepared to take quick action to adjust the temperature! by the way, in addition to being traditional, and having som eeffect on the flavor of the beer, decoction mashing in my system increases the yield of wort to .034 to .036 SG pts per LB per G, versus the typical .028 I get when infusion mashing! Roger Ayotte Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 10:51:12 -0800 From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Subject: Cask-conditioning I recently acquired a 7.75 US gallon Golden Gate keg with the gravity-feed taps. I've got a few questions regarding cask conditioning. 1. Can I put 5 gallons in the keg and adjust the priming to make up for the large amount headspace? 2. If I hook up the air-inlet fitting to connect to my C02 cylinder, will applying a layer of C02 *after* a serving session be of any use in attempting to make the beer last a little longer. NOTE: I don't want to eliminate the introduction of air entirely, as that is a part of the charm of cask-conditioning/serving - the evolution of the flavours, aromas in the beer. 3. What is a good book on this subject? Is Wheeler and Protz: Brewing Real Ale a good one? Any other tips, or personal experiences with real ale are welcomed. Cheers, Dave Riedel Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:30:33 -0800 From: Project One <project1 at pond.net> Subject: Re: Flavor Balance Equation In "Designing Great Beers", Ray Daniels uses this type of analysis, doing it by style. It's been real helpful in formulating my own recipes. ------------------>Denny Conn > >Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:37:31 EST >From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com> >Subject: Flavor Balance Equation > >I have done some research recently regarding flavor balance in beer and I >need some learned brewers comments on the information I've gathered. > >I like to have an idea of a beer's flavor balance (sweetness vs. bitterness) >before I attempt the brew. I have found a recipe calculator at > >http://www.cellar-homebrew.com/cgi-bin/calc/calc > >that provides an indication of flavor balance with respect to the IBU and >S.G. of the brew. From what I could tell by comparing with Promash, the >recipe calculator above probably uses the Garetz IBU formula. Through trial >and error, I have deduced the equations used in the calculator to estimate >the flavor balance. The relationship is described below: > >Very Bitter 12 IBU per 10 points S.G. >Balanced 7 IBU per 10 points S.G. >Very Sweet 2.75 IBU per 10 points S.G. > >Researching the HBD archives provided 2 conflicting IBU/S.G. relationships >for a balanced beer. In an early post, a relationship of 8 IBU per 10 points >S.G. was reported. That was subsequently disputed and a relationship of 4 >IBU per 10 points S.G. was provided. > >I realize that there may be other factors involved with estimating flavor >balance, but I was hoping that some of you could comment on the >applicability of the relationships above and if there was some other >references to this type of flavor criteria. > >Martin Brungard >Tallahassee, FL > >"Meandering to a different drummer" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:45:59 GMT From: blades at airtime.co.uk (Liz Blades) Subject: Muntons wheat malt In HBD #3171 Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net> suggested "It could be that the malt had 'aged' in-situ. Check with your homebrew shop supplier and see if they changed drums. It does get pretty hot there in Florida! And mistakes do happen. Maybe it's not the supplier's fault after all." This is exactly what Muntons told me,I'd passed the original message to them. Andy(the sales manager and a member of the board, email andy at muntons.com) said that the problem with bulk malt was that it is not possible to pasteurise it as the cooling down period is too great and could cause melanoidin effects,ie darkening of the malt. Although he(and I ) appreciate that there is a saving in buying from bulk malt you have to understand that storage,and indeed transportation, can cause problems. Unless you know that the product is fresh we both would advocate that you buy the canned product, which is pasteurised. Is it really worth the few pennies saved on the bulk price over the canned to guarentee that you will produce the beer you want?(my words not Muntons). I've always had good luck with Muntons products. So have I,no affiliation at all apart from a calendar every year!!!!!!as one of their stockists.Believe me if they do anything wrong I let them know. HTH Cheers Liz Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 19:05:04 -0700 From: "Robert J. Waddell" <rjw at dimensional.com> Subject: Re: FWH Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> wrote: >FWHing is steeping the hops at runoff temperature >(~170F) for the entire sparge/runoff or lauter time, >~ one hour. It is this long steep at lower >temperature that makes the difference. Jeff & others, I started using this method back in 1995 when the concept first appeared here. But for some reason I picked up an inference in the articles that the First Wort Hops were only the flavor and aroma hops and that they should be removed from the wort JUST before a boil was attained, then the bittering hops were added about 15-20 minutes after the full boil started and the hot break had been removed. I've made some very decent pilsners using this method (except for the diacetyl problem that I'm still working on). So, do any of the other brewers on the HBD use this method and how are your results if you do? rjw I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system. 'Cept for that gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it off the bed at night. Women... --Pat Babcock *** It's never too late to have a happy childhood! *** **************************************************************************** RJW at dimensional.com / Opinions expressed are usually my own but Robert J. Waddell / perhaps shared. ICQ #7136012 Owner & Brewmaster: Barchenspeider Brew-Haus Longmont, Colorado **************************************************************************** (4,592 feet higher than Jeff Renner) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 22:02:25 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Details - killing bugs, units Regarding length of boil - I only have data for the kinds of bugs we don't have to worry about much - spore formers - because they're not too fond of low pH and hop resins. Bacillus can infect beer, but most often before the boil. You have to boil wort longer than water because the starting numbers of bacteria will be much lower in water (due to lack of food, and maybe some treatment). 15-20 minutes works for most people. I sympathise with Bob Scheck's plea for consistent units. Anything more detailed than reproducing a recipe really requires a rational system of unit. However, mixed units have their advantages - my 1 Litre water to 1 pound malt (stiff!) mash ratio sure saves remembering numbers. One of these days I will either switch to predicting yields from %extract tables or convert Miller's tables to Imperial Gallons. U.S. Gallons are a terrible unit - no damn good for heat balance calculations or anything else. If we could get everyone to remember to note whether their hops were pellets or flowers in recipes - THAT would be helpful! Sean Return to table of contents
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