HOMEBREW Digest #3173 Fri 19 November 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: Basic Questions (phil sides jr)
  Unusual Fermentation Foam (Jack Straw)
  Re: Star San / Emeril / S. Ludwigii (phil sides jr)
  Re: New Orleans (phil sides jr)
  Curious Widget Thought ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  RE:  Summer Brewing (KMacneal)
  Re: Engineering or Science? (Rod Prather)
  Brewpot dilemma ("Rick Gontarek")
  More sanitizing questions (jim english)
  Re: Dry ice (Israel Christie)
  pH Testing (AJ)
  Plastic ("Ken Schramm")
  Re: Summer brewing (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Pronunciation (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Summer Brewing ("Scholz, Richard")
  Sanitation (John Hahne)
  State of Beer Address:  New Orleans (MVachow)
  Stuck kettle drain, siphon starter ("Strom C. Thacker")
  When the hammock breaks, mamma you gotta move! (Brian Pickerill)
  No Foam in Idaho ("Doug Marion")
  Re:  FWH (Jeff Renner)
  malt mill ("Charles Walker")
  Counterflow Chillers (Rick Foote)
  pLambic Fermentation Schedules (alehouse)
  Quick Carbonation, N'Orleans beer (Dave Burley)
  Hyperbole in "The Big Easy" ("Brett A. Spivy")
  re: kettle drain & mason jar hop back (MaltHound)
  yeast choice sam adams boston lager clone/ (JPullum127)
  Over bittered beer fixer-uppers (MaltHound)
  Fw: high temp brewing ("Alan Meeker")
  Dry Ice Forced Carbonation (Bob.Sutton)
  scrubbies and pellets (Michael Kowalczyk)
  Thoughts for Dave Riedel, and Q:long-term gravity ("Sean Richens")
  Reminder - Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition (Brian Dreckshage)
  MCAB 3 Announcement (Louis Bonham)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:26:22 -0500 From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net> Subject: Re: Basic Questions >believe that the Clorox company recommends 1 tablespoon per gallon as a no >rinse sanitizer. Remember, we're not making them sterile, just killing the I would follow this "no rinse" advice only when attempting a Classic German Hypochloritebier or perhaps a Dunkel Hypochloritebier ;-) Phil Sides, Jr. Concord, NH - -- Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 23:30:06 -0800 From: Jack Straw <jstraw79 at pacbell.net> Subject: Unusual Fermentation Foam Ive been experimenting with new yeast as of late(I got tired of 1056), and I had a question for all of you HBDers out there. I recently tried the Burton Ale Yeast from White Labs, and I have a peculiar development...I am used to foam up, when I am putting the wort into a carboy, I run it through a strainer and drop it to the bottom of the carboy to airate it....I usually fill my carboys to the shoulder of the bottle. This time I filled it about 2-3 inches below the shoulder, and pitched my Burton ale yeast and it is climbing out of the carboy, and the foam is unlike any other I have ever seen. There is so much of it and it is almost like cauk (sp?) - the stuff you use to seal windows and grout. It is really, really dense. The air being driven off from the carboy smells fine, so I dont think that it is a contaminated batch...I was just wondering if anyone else has used the burton ale yeast, and had similar foaming reaction happen. I am just mildly concerned that there is something wrong with the beer. Beer Info (In case it helps determine the problem) All Grain IPA SG: 1.060 IBUs: 45-50 There is flaked barley in the grain bill 5 gal Burton Ale from Whitelabs Pitchable cultures. Started fermenting strongly about 5 hours after pitching, and foaming out of carboy after about 24 hours. There may be no cause for alarm here, I was just worried because of the slightly unusual foam, and the other carboy (different yeast) is no where near to foaming over. Thank you in advance! Cheers, Peter - -- "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Ben Franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:38:20 -0500 From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net> Subject: Re: Star San / Emeril / S. Ludwigii Luke Van Santen asks: >Star San and its non foaming brother Saniclean are the best sanitizers >I have ever used. I have no affiliation, just used them in a previous >life. PBW is good too (doesn't work as well as caustic, but doesn't hurt you >as bad as caustic either). I was wondering, what quantities do you get >them in? I feel the quantities offered in HB stores are inadequate, >especially when the prices are as high as they are. I tried to get a >gallon from fivestar, but ran into problems (their perceived liability). >Any good sources out there? My brew shop orders them for me. I get Star San in 32 oz., and PBW in 4 # sizes. Email me privately for contact info. Phil Sides, Jr. Concord, NH - -- Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:53:16 -0500 From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net> Subject: Re: New Orleans Domenick Venezia wrote: >BTW - I was recently in New Orleans, a beer wasteland. Bud, Bud-Lite, >Miller, Miller-lite, with the imports being Coors and Coors-lite. >Abita was available in many places. Someone needs to tell Abita about >hops. Apparently they don't know that you can add them to beer. Next time, go to Cooter Brown's. I don't need to say anything else ;-) Phil Sides, Jr. Concord, NH - -- Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:17:47 +1100 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at infoflex.com.au> Subject: Curious Widget Thought For A.J. Firstly, thanks for your detailed description of the new floating widget in action. I can visualise a jet of beer exiting the tiny hole in the widget and creating a "shear" effect within the can and thus encouraging the nitrogen to come out of solution and produce the creamy head. But one final question bothers me, what if the little hole in the widget is pointing upwards when you pop the ring pull? Now that surely is going to surprise any Guinness drinker far more than Ron LaBorde shooting himself in the face with his 5 lt keg!! Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:10:03 EST From: KMacneal at aol.com Subject: RE: Summer Brewing In a message dated 11/18/1999 12:19:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au> writes: << OK all you northern types coming out of summer and heading into winter, What sort of fermented beverages do people make over summer that are suited to fermenting at the higher temperatures experienced? >> Belgian Ales (I especially recommend a Wit for summer brewing/drinking). IPA. Zymurgy had an issue on summer brewing a few years ago. Perhaps someone you know has it in their archives. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:17:07 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Re: Engineering or Science? "Robert A. Uhl" wrote on the Subject of Engineering or Science? > Messrs. Babcock & Prather write on whether brewing is a science or > engineering, pointing out that engineering _is_ a science. > and how much science should be applied. Although I didn't say that engineering is science, I did say that they were closely related. Engineering is the application of pure science. Bob, actually I couldn't agree with you more. Brewing is an art because the outcome is asthetic. Subjective to human senses and preferences which are variable from person to person. Music and the arts apply science in materials, paints, musical instruments and even in technique but it is still art. That doesn't mean that you should criticize a person for forming a band of 16th century musical instruments and play unamplified. Still the techno-musician bombards us with computer generated music that eventually dulls the senses with it's repetitious overly perfected din. Kinda sounds like Budweiser, huh. - -- Rod Prather Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:33:00 -0500 From: "Rick Gontarek" <Richard_R_Gontarek at sbphrd.com> Subject: Brewpot dilemma Hello everyone, I am having a bit of a dilemma deciding which brewpot set-up to ask for from Santa. I do 5 gallon all-grain mashes, and I currently mash either in a 5 gallon stainless steel pot (not a heavy-duty pot) on my stove-top or for infusion mashes, in my 10 gallon Gott cooler phitted with a Phil's phalse bottom. Run-off is collected in an 8 gallon enamel pot. Because I'd like the flexibility of brewing some higher-gravity beers, the 8 gallon pot isn't going to cut it anymore. I'd like to get a 10 gallon stainless steel brewpot (like Polarware), but I'm not sure if I should get one with a drain fitting already installed (brass or stainless steel??) and purchase the false bottom separately ($$), or just go-ahead and drill the new pot and add Jack Schmidling's EasyMasher. What I'd like is the flexibility to mash in the pot as well as to boil larger volumes of wort. I am also a little concerned about price (I don't want to get greedy on Santa!). If anyone has any comments or suggestions, please email me. I appreciate any input. Cheers, Rick Gontarek Owner/brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery Trappe, PA RGontare at bellatlantic.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:46:03 -0500 From: jim english <jimebob at mindspring.com> Subject: More sanitizing questions In all the discussion of various sanitizers during various phases of all the many operations we all go through there is hardly any mention of Hydrogen Peroxide. I have been using it for a quick and hopefully-not-dirty contact killer on starter jar lips, foil covers, funnels, countertops and stoppers. Have I been deluding myself? What IS the contact time for undiluted HP? Have I just been lucky? JRE 'hotlanta Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:56:08 -0500 From: Israel Christie <ichristie at vt.edu> Subject: Re: Dry ice >Before I spend much time investigating this, I wanted to ask the collective >for any previous experiments or success with carbonating with dry ice. I believe dry ice often contains benzene. I can't, at the moment, quite recall why thats bad, but I know it is... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:11:15 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: pH Testing Jay White asks about checking the pH of doctored water because of concerns about sparge pH rising too high. Actually, the pH of water by itself tells you very little about the suitability of the water for mashing or sparging. What is much more significant is the "alkalinity" which is a measure of how much acid the water can consume and, therefore, how much it tends to raise pH in both mashing and sparging operations. If you look back over the archives you will find dozens of posts on this subject. In a nutshell RA = alkalinity - (calcium Hardness)/3.5 - (magnesium hardness)/7 If RA is less than 50 mash pH tends to go where you want it and sparge pH tends to stay below 6 to the point where runoff gravity reaces 2 or 3 P. Note that Brita filtered water will have very low alkalinity and thus low residual alkalinity but it will also be deficient in calcium which should be supplemented with gypsum or calcium chloride to the extent that neither sulfate nor chloride is excessive. Rather than do calculations it is, of course, better to measure the mash pH and this requires a meter. There are many posts on the subject of where to obtain meters. The bad news is that the best ones for brewing (i.e. can be used in the most parts of the brewing process) are expensive because they must work in hot, gummy, proteinaceous wort and solids laden mash. The good news is that capability per $ has improved greatly in the last few years and decent meters which can be used for water, cooled wort and beer (the precipitous drop in pH which occurs before any visible signs of fermentation is an excellent indicator that they will actually appear) can be had for $100 - 200. Somewhat less capable meters are sold by many homebrewing shops for under $100. - -- A. J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:13:33 -0500 From: "Ken Schramm" <schramk at resa.net> Subject: Plastic I have to agree with Jonn Thomas on the plastic issue. I had a run of bad beers, and was on the verge of insanity, because my regular fruit beer process involves running hot wort onto the fruit in a plastic fermenter, and using my immersion chiller after the fruit is sanitized (can't do that with a carboy). Dan McConnell provided a masterful analysis of where I was likely to find the souce(s) of my problems: underpitching (HUGE), and siphon hoses and Gate valves harboring bad bacs. I went to larger cultures, replaced the siphon hoses and gate valves (with ball valves), and voila, good beer. Dr. Dan: My Hero. On the siphon hose front, I took to running a half gallon of "hot off the stove" boiling water through my sanitized siphon hoses (yes, I have some very wavy racking canes, but I don't care), and three or four gallons of near-boiling H2O through my sanitized cornies and hoses before I rack the new beer into them. Yes indeed, I have to wear gloves, and the steam has opened my pores on many an occasion, but not many nasties can survive that. You can even leave the hot H2O in the cane to start the beer siphon. I have made several fine fruit beers with plastic since, and I don't foresee giving it up. 217 Days until the Historic AHA 2000 conference in Detroit. June 22, 23 & 24. Dozens of great presentations, a whole country's worth of great beer. Beer2K: The best beer event of the new millenium. Ken Schramm Troy, MI Can't decide if it's better to be close to Jeff's Beer or his Bread Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:02:34 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Summer brewing "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au> asks from Oz: >OK all you northern types coming out of summer and heading into winter, >What sort of fermented beverages do people make over summer that are suited >to fermenting at the higher temperatures experienced? We here in the north just ferment in our basements where it stays cool. ;-) Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:20:30 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Pronunciation "Werrbach, Maria" <mwerrbach at mail.elgin.cc.il.us> asked: >Fuggles. > >Does the 'fug' part rhyme with rug Yes. It's in the O.E.D but the diacritical mark for the "u" isn't ASCII, so I can't reproduce it here, but it is the same as in "rug" (I looked it up, too, just to make sure). It follows the general rule for pronouncing vowels preceding double consonents - short; long when preceding single consonents, as in "bugle." If I had a nickle every time I heard it pronounced to rhyme with "bugles" I could go out for a beer. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:36:04 -0500 From: "Scholz, Richard" <RScholz at refco.com> Subject: Re: Summer Brewing Darren Robey asks in HBD 3172: > Here in Australia we're talking days of 30 Celsius and over so with the techniques of cooling including the wet towel, the high 20's are about as good as it gets without a fridge.<snip> what can I make that would be suited to this temp. I'm talking beer styles, strains of yeast as well as all other manners of fermented beverages. ??? <snip> I have found that "Cooper's" yeast (from that little brewery in Leabrook SA ;^)) and Safel-40 yeast both ferment good clean ales up into the 80's F ( 25-30 C for the english unit impaired ) The Safel seem to be one of the most neutral yeasts I've used at higher fermenting temps. Both of these are dry yeasts and I always keep a couple of packets in the freezer for times when the starter flask is funky. As to styles, many Belgian yeast strains are fermented very warm to produce those classic dubbel, tripel, or abbey flavors. With the dry yeast above any clean style ale works. I made a Red rye ale and a porter and a blonde ale this summer reusing the safel-40 ale yeast three times with nice clean fermentations at temps ranging from 72-82 F. Hope this helps. - --- Richard L Scholz Brooklyn, NY (212) 587-6203 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:03:50 -0600 (CST) From: joh3n at webtv.net (John Hahne) Subject: Sanitation I haven't been able to find out about this. Would it do any good, or harm, to spray the area with Lysol, or such, prior to brewing? Thanks, John Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:08:19 -0600 From: MVachow at newman.k12.la.us Subject: State of Beer Address: New Orleans Dominick's post script yesterday on the sorry state of beer in New Orleans came hard on the heels of my Oregonian sister's yearly invitation to come out for the Portland Winter Brew Fest (pay-back for my rainy weather jokes) and an announcement from a Pullyallup resident on the Brewery BBS that Jubel Ale, Winterhook, Wassail Ale, Celebration Ale, et al. have hit the local grocery shelves. So, be grateful out there in beer nirvana, ya bums, and remember all of us poor slobs living in the land where Rolling Rock is an import. And, if you do have occasion to come to New Orleans, leave your hops jones behind, as Dominick says, but try Abita's bock, a seasonal released for Carnival time, and don't miss Acadian Brewing's pils and helles bock. And, please, for the love of man, bring me a case of Celebration Ale! Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:12:46 -0500 From: "Strom C. Thacker" <sthacker at bu.edu> Subject: Stuck kettle drain, siphon starter Randy Miner had problems with his kettle drain clogging in his converted sankey boiler. I use a similar system, with a 3/8" 90 degree ss dip tube. I too kept getting slow runoff that would clog easily, especially using pellet hops. My solution was to put a 8 or 10' ss false bottom in the bottom of the boiling kettle. It works great, especially with whole hops, which form a nice filter bed. I haven't used it yet with 100% pellet hops, but I suspect that the hop particles would go through the false bottom into the fermenter. I got the false bottom from Stainless in Seattle (yadda yadda) on sale (about $15, incl. shipping) this summer. Several people have replied re: starting a siphon by sucking. I've used a simple gadget for about 7 years that has worked well for me. It's bulb primer for an outboard boat motor. I got it at a marine supply store. I first read about it in the Zymurgy gadgets special issue, c. 1992. You just sanitize and drain it, attach to the end of your racking hose and pump until the hose begins to fill with beer. Then remove it and lower the hose into the receiving vessel. You can clamp off the hose as soon as it fills with beer, or just hold the bulb primer up high so the siphon doesn't flow through it (if a little gets in, just rinse it out). Cheers, Strom Thacker Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:02:27 -0500 From: Brian Pickerill <00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu> Subject: When the hammock breaks, mamma you gotta move! "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> said: >(Just be safe about >it--I used to lay back on my hammock with the carboy on my belly to remove >an risk of dropping it. Now I just use O2....) Oh, man! Am I the only one who has broken a hammock? I would not have wanted a carboy on (or in) my lap, gut, etc... This could be the most gruesome carboy story yet! Brian Pickerill, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie, IN Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:06:26 MST From: "Doug Marion" <mariondoug at hotmail.com> Subject: No Foam in Idaho Thanks to Dave Burley for his info on my "no foaming" problem. I think with his help I may have it nailed down now. I didn't include the gory details of the recipie because I didn't think the problem was in the recipie, but I do think now that there was a faulty ingredient. I actually suspected what the problem was from further observations even before reading Dave's post. Thanks to Dave's info on surfectants,and oils, its probably not too hard to figure out. My ESB recipie used some home made caramel both in the boil and towards the sugar,MARGARINE OR BUTTER,corn syrup,and a little salt. With the opperative ingredient (or rather inopperative) here being the margarine or butter. My guess is the fat and oils in the butter is what caused the wort not to foam during aeration and also during fermentation. Is that right all you scientists out there? In all of the books and magazines I've read in my years of brewing, I have never seen mention of this. If this is what happened to me, to anyone contemplating trying caramel in a recipie, USE A CARAMEL RECIPIE WITHOUT THE MARGARINE OR BUTTER! Now comes the real question. Will the finished beer be able to form and maintain a head? If not, I may not even finish the beer. Does the butter have any effect on the health or viability of the yeast? Can I save the yeast and effectively use on another batch? Any comments or experience from the collective on this subject would be appreciated. It may also save others from the same experience. Maybe others have had the same thing happen but not known what caused it. Or maybe I'm just ignorant or stupid or both. Thanks too all. Brew like a maniac, Doug Marion ______________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:16:53 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: FWH "Robert J. Waddell" <<rjw at dimensional.com> asks about FWH: >for some reason >I picked up an inference in the articles that the First Wort Hops >were only the flavor and aroma hops and that they should be >removed from the wort JUST before a boil was attained, then the >bittering hops were added about 15-20 minutes after the full boil >started and the hot break had been removed. I suppose this would work for the flavor, but it is not the standard method, and I suspect you would not get the same bitterness results. The FW hops are left in for the boil. This is my standard procedure for Pilsners now, including CAPs. While this is not mentioned in Wahl and Henius as being used 100 years ago in the US, I suspect it may have been since US lager brewers were predominantly trained in Germany or if not, then by German trained teachers, in German, so it seems likely it would have been known. I and several other brewers have actually made beer with all of the hops used as FWH with interesting results. Lots of hop flavor and aroma. Since traffic is light, I thought I'd give the salient parts of the results of the German FWH investigation as reported by Dave Draper on his FWH page (which I recommend for the big picture) http://brew.oeonline.com/ddraper/beer/1stwort.html "3. Tasting panel results: the FWH beers were overwhelmingly preferred over the reference beers in triangular taste tests (i.e., each taster was given three beers, two of either the reference beer or the FWH beer, and one of the other, and had to correctly identify which two were alike before their preference results were incorporated in the database). 11 of 12 tasters of each beer preferred the FWH beer. The main reasons given for the preference: "a fine, unobtrusive hop aroma; a more harmonic beer; a more uniform bitterness." "4. Analytical results--bitterness: The FWH beers had more IBUs than did the reference beers. Brew A: Ref beer was 37.9 IBU, FWH beer was 39.6 IBU. Brew B: Ref beer was 27.2 IBU, FWH beer was 32.8 IBU. This should come as no surprise, since more hops were in the kettle for the boil in the FWH beers than in the Reference beers. Prior to fermentation, the worts from both breweries showed the following features: the FWH wort had substantially more isomerized alpha acids, but less non-isomerized alphas. This was particularly true of Brew B, which had a higher proportion of first-wort hops. Nevertheless, the bitterness of the FWH beers was described as more pleasing than the (slightly weaker) bitterness of the reference beers." Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:22:11 -0600 From: "Charles Walker" <charlybill at xpressway.net> Subject: malt mill Greetings all !! I am currently moving forward (finally) with plans to build a 3 vessel home brewery and to get back to brewing after an extended absence from same. One of the additions to my current equipment is a grain mill. The one I am considering is the Malt Mill by Schmidling. How about some feedback on that as well as adjustable or non-adjustable rollers. Is the adjustable model worth the extra? I will be brewing 10 gal batches of various beers from wheat to large brews. Thanks, Charlie Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:24:27 -0500 From: Rick Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Counterflow Chillers Ok, I'm making my Christmas wish list and need to know about counterflow wort chillers. I would specifically like to see opinions on the Heart's Superchiller and the P.B.S. Maxichiller or are there other killer chillers out there? Looking at factors such price, quality, efficiency, construction materials, ease of cleaning/sanitizing, size, etc. which would be your choice? Has anyone had experience with both? There was a test published in Zymurgy of various CF chillers, but P.B.S. Maxichiller was not among them. Any guidance appreciated. TIA, Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Nov 1999 09:35:57 -0800 From: alehouse at homepage.com Subject: pLambic Fermentation Schedules pLambic Brewers, I have recently embarked on the pLambic Odyssey. Being this is my first attempt and I am not very trusting of the single mixed culture of sacc., pedio., brett., et al. to do the job right, I started the fermentation off with a clean ale yeast in a plastic fermenter. Now that the main ale fermentation is coming to completion it's time to inoculate with the other "bugs". I have decided against the planned inoculation schedule of individual strains and have decided to add the Wyeast mixed Lambic-style blend at this point. At one month into the fermentation with ale-only yeast, I figure conditions are right just about now to support the growth of the more fastidious organisms. Suggestions on racking to glass (along with the existing yeast) vs. continuing in plastic? Experiences with mixed culture vs. individual strain inoculation schedule? Sometime next year (after cherry season and if I have the beginnings of a good lambic) I plan on racking on top of a 50/50% mixture of sweet and sour cherries at a ratio of 2lb/gal. I'll hand-pick the cherries, wash them, treat with metabisulfite, rinse and freeze. I had great results with frozen cherries vs. fresh cherries in past fruit beers. The freezing action breaks the cell walls and ruptures the skin nicely for the ferment. No need to crush! A little pectin enzyme and a sparge bag to hold the fruit skins & pits and you're golden. Suggestions on racking onto fruit vs. adding fruit to beer? After a couple of months on the fruit, I'll probably rack to glass until the beer has reached the 18 month mark and either blend with a small amount from a second batch of young lambic or just go straight to the bottle with priming sugar. Experiences with blending a Kriek vs. priming sugar/DME priming? If the brew shows promise, I'd like to do it right and bottle for extended storage. I am considering packaging in a bottle less than 12 oz. in volume with a cork, wax plug and cap. Bottle conditioning should probably be complete around the 2 year mark. Any suggestions here? I've read "Lambic" by JXG (many times), read other numerous articles on lambics and visited a host of websites on the subject. I still prefer to listen to the advice and experiences of fellow hombrewers who have successfully brewed the style on a homebrew scale with hombrew methods using homebrew equipment. I'm also sure anyone who is willing to devote the amount time to making this style and having the patience to wait years to taste the fruit of their labor will probably be as critical as I am in the evaluation of their own brew. Private e-mails are certainly welcome. Please forgive me if this is a repeated posting as the first one was rejected for line length and the second try seems to have gotten lost around the time of the last server belch. Try, try again... Glen Pannicke e-mail: alehouse at homepage.com http://alehouse.homepage.com __________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 13:57:38 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Quick Carbonation, N'Orleans beer Brewsters: Dan asks about quick carbonation methods for his keg. It has been my experience and others that when beer is first carbonated artificially it does not have the same size bubbles as when it has been allowed to rest for a few days. Also carbonation with dry ice has been tried many times ( including by yours truly in a long ago era) and it is generally not acceptable. Some dry ice has sulfur dioxide as a by-product depending on its source. I suggest you try using a 2 micron SS aeration stone. I saw such a a stone attached to a SS tube replacing the input tube in a cornie for sale in a brewing supply catalog. Pressurizing at 15 to 25 # ( depending on the final carbonation level) was reputed to produce carbonated beer in as little as 6 hours with no shaking. Probably it is better than that if you are really in a hurry I suppose once you have this beer carbonated you could leave the beer there or push this beer into another cornie or bottle it. To be sure you have no oxygen in the receiving cornie, first fill it with water and push the water out with CO2. Just blowing CO2 into a cornie will not work unless you are prepared to blow in an incredible amount of CO2 - like a hundred volumes, as I recall I calculated. - ----------------------------------- Dominick complained about N'Orleans being a beer wasteland. Too bad you didn't stop by the Crescent City Brewery across from the Cafe DuMonde. I did an East Coast/Southern US tour a couple of years ago. Of selected craft breweries/pubs this was wonderful, with authentic lagers, the rest of the breweries/pubs offerings were disappointing. - ----------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:15:47 -0600 From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com> Subject: Hyperbole in "The Big Easy" Domenick, Domenick, Domenick . . . Now what are we to do with you? While it is true that the bulk of Abita's brews are distinctly low IBU, and that there is a LOT of bad beer in N'awlins, <snip> New Orleans, a beer wasteland. <snip> is an awfully strong statement -- and a blatantly false one at that. Abita brews one seasonal and at least one full time brew that (when fresh) can bring a smile to the face of the most dour of North American hop farmers. Mind you, these are not brews for the HOP HEAD, 90 IBU nut jobs that believe that more is better whether its beer, bitterness, bratwursts, or brewing equipment. They are though, well balanced and excellent beers. As for the BudMillerCoors, I think the problem lay not with the lack of good beer, but instead with your choice of establishment. You obviously did not make it into: Lagers (a fine selection of craft, micro, and import as well as their own beer) or Cooter Brown's (right in the district and in the top five nationally of "beers on tap" - -- if memory serves and it rarely does, something like 125 to choose from) If all you did was make a sales call on Brew-Ha-Ha (great homebrew shop except for leaving their bulk bucket purchases of Alexander's extract in the front window all the time - I really love this place), eat turtle soup at Arnaud's and Bananas Foster at Brennan's, then you missed the real heart of the city. Chef Duke at Cafe Giovanni's rejects (for freshness) as many cases of quality micro brews as he accepts delivery of, and the arrogant, much - maligned Emeril who is a brilliant Chef and a hell of a nice guy if you can get to know him, actually knows what he likes to taste in beer and as such carries a couple of nice micros on his menu as well as Warstiener (sp?!?). Next time get a guide (I bet for a pint, Ron Laborde or one of his club brothers from the Crescent City Brewers would do it -- for two pints I'm likely to drive down from Shreveport). Hell, ask a cabbie! You may just end up at the Red Room drinking a nice imported Iambic or THE BAR, sitting on furniture designed by the owner, viewing B & W photographs of lesbian models taken by the bartender, drinking the finest Black and Tan (BlackAsCoal Sweet Stout & Carp LA Pale Ale) you've ever had brewed by the owner's wife. Brett A. Spivy A transplanted Tennesseean who's fallen in love with this bassackwards, politically corupt, food-loving, bayou covered, reptile infested (oops, already mentioned the politicians) sportsman's paradise. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:30:29 EST From: MaltHound at aol.com Subject: re: kettle drain & mason jar hop back In HBD 3172 Randy Miner <randyminer at mpinet.net> asks: "Do others use a scrubber as a filter and avoid this problem? Could I have been pulling it out too fast? Is a valve/tube clamp needed to keep the flow slow? I assume I'd have to put it near the low end of the tubing so I don't get air coming up the hose when the flow is too slow? Is the only solution to use whole hops?" Bingo! Use whole hops or at least some whole hops in each batch and your problem will disappear. I too have had clogging due to pellet hop spooge gumming up the chore-boy strainer, but never a problem with whole hops. What I have taken to doing lately is using pellets for the higher AA bittering hops and whole flowers for the aroma & flavor hops. Since there is only ~ an oz. of pellets they are not a problem with the filtering of the leaves there. WRT the seal on your mason jar hop back, why not find one of the rubber gaskets that fit the older style mason jars. Some of the really old ones had a glass top that is sealed to the jar via a rubber gasket and swing top bail thingey like an overgrown Grolsh bottle. Let me know how that works for you since I might like to make one of these someday. Regards, Fred Wills Londonderry, NH PS - WRT wotten egg water in NH, my well water is not wotten in the least and makes eggcelent beer with no treatment watsoevah! Cheers! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:36:13 EST From: JPullum127 at aol.com Subject: yeast choice sam adams boston lager clone/ i really like the sam adams boston lager. ,and am thinking of trying an allgrain clone. i know about the hallertau mittelfruh and tettnanger hops, but was wondering on a good yeast choice for it. as long as we are at it any Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:44:22 EST From: MaltHound at aol.com Subject: Over bittered beer fixer-uppers In HBD 3172 Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> asks: "Question: What can I do to this beer to help balance out the bitterness? I thought about adding 4oz of maltodextrin powder to bump the sweetness back up again, but was unsure if I'd just wind up with a sweet and bitter beer. Any thoughts?" Maltodextrin will increase the residual gravity, but will not appreciably sweeten the beer. It doesn't taste sweet. Taste some and see for yourself. What you may have meant was to use lactose (milk sugar) or some other unfermentable sugar to try and balance the flavor. That might work. Another alternative would be to boil-up a quick batch of under / un-hopped brew which could be blended wit the stuff you have now. Some quick calculations could reveal how much dilutiuon would be desireable. You could make this wort from extract for simpicity and then just dump it into the Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:18:40 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Fw: high temp brewing - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu> To: <post@hbd.org> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 10:27 AM Subject: high temp brewing > > So my question is... what can I make that would be suited to this temp. > I'm > > talking beer styles, strains of yeast as well as all other manners of > > fermented beverages... Darren, welcome to the wide wide world of Belgian beer styles!! -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:51:30 -0500 From: Bob.Sutton at fluor.com Subject: Dry Ice Forced Carbonation Dan asked about using dry ice to force carbonate his brews... Dan - Much of the dry ice sold to the public isn't food-grade per se and is apt to have oil and other objectionable contaminants. However, if your supplier has a clean, pure supply of dry ice, there's no reason you couldn't calculate the volumes of CO2 required for carbonation and weigh out the required quantity. That said, I'd be concerned about over-pressuring the keg if the gaseous CO2 generation rate exceeds the CO2 solubilization take-up rate. Reminds me of those fond years when we'd add a handful of dry ice and a cup of water into a plastic 2-liter soft drink bottle, seal the cap, and wait.... baloooooooey !!!! Bob Fruit Fly Brewhaus Yesterdays' Technology Today - - -- -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 06:42:54 -0800 From: Michael Kowalczyk <mikekowal at megsinet.net> Subject: scrubbies and pellets Back in HBD#3163 Kurt laments using scrubbies w/pellets. Kurt, it's a bitch. After about a year of tring to syphon using racking cane, false bottom, easymasher, etc... I finally came on the best strainer. A choreboy attached to a racking cane. Worked very well for 2 years. Crystal clear wort, never a clog etc.... I swear by it. Tell all my friends and the such. When I built my 3 tier I used the scrubbies in a sankey. I attached them to a T fitting so that the scrubbies hug the sides. Worked wonderfully for 3 brews. I decided to experiment w/pellets. Bought 2 pounds of pellets and whole hops from hoptech and started brewing. I use 1/2 whole and 1/2 pellets. CLOG CITY. Damn that was a frustrating brew! I realized in the last 2 years I used either whole hops or plugs. I immersion cooled and didn't whirlpool. The hops set up a very nice filter bed and the wort was break free. I will always use scrubbies w/whole hops or plugs. I heartilly recommend it. Now I'm stuck with 2 lb of pellets. I'm determined to figure out a way to use them. Anyone have any suggestions? I will try whirlpooling next time. I'll letyou know what happens. - Mike Bishop's Gate Brewery New Lenox. Il. p.s. Scrubbies are the steel or copper pads used to scrub pans and such. A great brand is chore boy. The usual way to use them is to attach them to your racking cane and siphon as usual. I use a copper pipe and a hose clamp to connect mine. Works fantastic... with whole hops.... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:13:52 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Thoughts for Dave Riedel, and Q:long-term gravity Dave - for your 7.5 gal keg, if you're doing ales, why not do a high-gravity brew and add 2.x gal boiled, cooled and aerated water to the primary, or non-aerated water to the keg? It's crude, but the mega-brewers make Molson's that way, so a brown ale may even be improved. I've been thinking about your point #2, and I plan to put a mild ale in a corny, prime it, serve half without introducing any air, then serve the rest replacing the volume 50/50 with air & CO2 to see how quickly the flavour changes. My question: I can just about get my FG, or at least the final sweetness where I want it 4 times out of 5 (haven't quite nailed lagers yet). Stability in bottle-primed beer is good, even with storage through 85-95 F summer temperatures - no oxidation, no autolysis flavours. However, after 6-9 months, the flavour starts getting really dry and the body starts to disappear. Is this: - residual attenuative ability of the yeast? - proteolytic enzymes from a little autolyzed yeast? - a non-tasteable level of infection by something with amylolytic abilities? or something else? It is similar to the effect that improves strong beers with age. In other cases I sometimes suspect my yeasts of slowly metabolizing maltotriose or maltotetraose. Is there anything to be done in the mash procedure to control this? I wonder if I should raise the mash temperature to leave more dextrins and increase pitching rate to equally increase attenuation so that the oligosaccharides more neatly divide into "fermentable" and "non-fermentable". What thoughts or experience do my fellow brewers have on this item? Thanks & cheers Sean Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:11:06 -0600 From: Brian Dreckshage <dreck at concentric.net> Subject: Reminder - Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition AHA Sanctioned Competition Hosted by the St. Louis Brews December 10 and 11, entries accepted 11/22 through 12/4. For more info go to: www.stlbrews.org Judges and Stewards needed as well. Or call Brian Dreckshage 800-573-3067 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:37:54 -0600 From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at hbd.org> Subject: MCAB 3 Announcement Hi folks: Well, it's that time again . . . . . . news from MCAB central . . . . First, the Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing ("MCAB") welcomes Brewing News as an MCAB sponsor, and its publisher Bill Metzger to the MCAB Steering Committee. We also welcome the ever-popular Rob "Jethro Gump" Moline as an "at large" member of the Committee. Second . . . . the Qualifying Styles for MCAB 3 (which will be held in early 2001) have now been set . . . These are based on the new "unified" BJCP-AHA style guides, so there are a few changes and a slight expansion in the number of QS's to 20. Please forward this list to homebrew shops, club newsletters, etc., etc., etc. The MCAB 3 Qualifying Styles are (BJCP Category in parenthesis): Classic American Pilsner (1C) Dormunder Export (2C) Cream Ale (3C) Ordinary Bitter (4A) Scottish Ales (5 -- all subcategories) APA (6A) IPA (7) Koelsch & Altbier (8 -- all subcategories) German Amber (9 -- all subcategories) American Brown (10D) English / Scotch Strong Ales (11 -- all subcategories) American Barley Wine (12B) European Dark Lager (13 -- all subcategories) Traditional Bock (14A) Robust Porter (15A) Dry Stout (16A) Bavarian Weizen (17A) Strong Belgian Ales (18 -- all subcategories) Witbier (19B) Lambic and Belgian Sour Beers (20 -- all subcategories) So, start your brew kettles . . . the first Qualifying Events for MCAB 3 will be in February 2000. Third, we'll be making the announcement of the MCAB 3 Qualifying Events shortly (hopefully, this Sunday afternoon). Last, remember that MCAB 2 will be March 24-25, 2000 in St. Louis, hosted by the St. Louis Brews homebrew club. Bob Boland and his crew have been hard at work and have a great weekend planned . . . including top notch technical presentations, VIP tours of a certain "two initial" brewery in that town, and lots more. Mark your calendars, scrape together those frequent flier miles, hoard your spousal beer bullets, etc., etc., etc. . . . but make your plans to join us for a serious beer geek weekend . . . (Watch the MCAB website and the HBD for details . . . . ) As always, if you have questions or are interested in supporting the MCAB, drop me a line. Louis K. Bonham lkbonham at hbd.org Return to table of contents
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