---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Best Homebrew bash of the new millennium?? ("John Stegenga")
  grain mills (John Wilkinson)
  Lambic Question (Brad McMahon)
  Heady brew, Malt mills, odd day (Dave Burley)
  Re: Boilover preventer ("Sean Richens")
  Temp Controlled SS Conical Fermenter (Ron and Sharon)
  Re: Sanitizing caps (KMacneal)
  Lysol and hop pellets (Mike Uchima)
  Re: first wort hopping (part 1) (Jeff Renner)
  Re: first wort hopping (part 2) (Jeff Renner)
  pLambic, wheat lautering (Ben Newman)
  Fermenters, Secondaries, and Aeration ("Keith Christian")
  Re: Stainless Rollers ("Jack Schmidling")
  wyeast (peter gough)
  Re: first wort hopping (SClaus4688)
  Re: Dry ice ("Glen Pannicke")
  VERY slow mead fermentation (Shannon & Angela Menkveld)
  carboy cleaning (gdhipple)
  Dry Hopping / Post-Brew Hopping (gdhipple)
  Gordon's cave a vin homebrew comp. (aaron)
  BT back issue order ("Rob Jones")
  Overly-bitter beer ("Fred L. Johnson")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 01:29:18 -0500
From: "John Stegenga" <bigjohns at mindspring.com>
Subject: Best Homebrew bash of the new millennium??

in HBD 3174, Ken Schram writes:
>Ken Schramm,
>Troy, Mi
>Jeff Wenner wives 50 miwes southwest of Twoy
>216 days until the best homebrew bash of the new millennium.
>The smoker will be stoked, for those who like sweet, slightly carbonized
>salmon, turkey, pheasants, venison, pork....
>AHA2K: June 22, 23, 24
>Livonia Holiday Inn near Detroit, MI

Hmm... Having a brew bash for the millennium a year early?  A warm-up,
perhaps?  The millennium begins at 00:00:00:001 on January 1, 2001.  Which
makes your party about 5 months and a week before the start of the new
millennium.  Your title for it is correct (AHA2K), because it will indeed
fall in the year 2000.

For more information on the millennium, see:

http://www.usno.navy.mil/home.html

John Stegenga (AKA Bigjohn)
Bigjohn's Basement Brew house
Woodstock, GA (about 1000 miles south of Troy)
member, Covert Hops Society - Atlanta GA
http://www.coverthops.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 00:44:48 -0600
From: John Wilkinson <jandjwilkins at earthlink.net>
Subject: grain mills

Kyle, the biergiek of Bakersfield (good Basque food there, just be sure
they have more than one exit), wrote of the merits of the adjustable
Valley Mill as opposed to Jack Schmidling's (there, I actually said his
name) JSP Malt Mill.  I have had a Valley mill for a few years and am
pretty happy with it.  However, I must mention that I never find a need
to change the roller spacing.  I admit that my brewing is probably
somewhat boring compared to some of you in that I seldom if ever use
anything but 2 row barley, mostly ale but sometimes lager, malt.  Also,
I not infrequently during the grind of my usual 20 pounds (US) of grain
have the mill stall until I poke at it a bit or sometimes have to empty
the hopper, restart, and refill.  I attribute this to the passive
roller not being driven, for some reason, by the grain.  I still like
the mill and at the price I paid for it (about US$70 from a Williams
Brewing closeout) it is hard to beat.  However, the JSP mills have a,
I think, deservedly good reputation and are all I have seen in home
brew supply shops in my area.  Like him or not, Ol' Jack makes a good
product.  I'm not his brother-in-law either.  Hell, I don't even know
him.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 00:16:13 +1030
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Lambic Question

>From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
>Subject: Lambic Question

>First, what's the difference between a Plambic and a regular lambic?
>I thought that a Plambic (aka pseudo-lambic) was a shot at making a 
>beer like a lambic through formulation and additions, but not through
>the use of bacterial strains.  But reading these posts more carefully,
>it seems that everyone is making Plambics-- even when all the standard
>bacteria and lengthy aging is used.  What gives?

Lambics are fermented by wild airborne yeasts and bacteria while
p-Lambics are created by innoculating the wort with yeast(s) and
bacterial strains.
Some commercial brewers rely on wild inniculations entirely,
while some others add a top-fermenting yeast and expose the
beer in the cooling trays after primary fermentation is complete.

You can try making a Lambic but unless the content of your air
is similar to central Belgium, you may not have much success (or
so I've heard).

Brad


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:04:18 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Heady brew, Malt mills, odd day

Brewsters:

Jack Straw decided to stop using that bane of
good beer - Wyeast 1056 and move onto
something that might actually have a positive
effect on flavor - Burton Ale Yeast.  Congratulations!
you'll never go back to 1056 for your ales.
I just wish people who try to make a living at micro
brewing would also wake up and give their beer
some character by using something besides 1056.
Don't forget to go to a real lager yeast when
you do lagers.

However, Jack is worrried since the yeast is
climbing out of his carboy fermenter and looks
like caulking compound.

What you are experiencing is a real top
fermenting yeast ( actually should be called a
top flocculating yeast) and one of the reasons
I began using a wide mouth plastic fermenter
closed with a plastic sheet ( commonly called
an "open" fermenter) when I lived in Britain and
used a British brewery ale yeast. Don't worry, the
yeast is doing a great job, just be careful
it does not fall back into the brew if it is exposed
to the air, as it will be contaminated. Next time,
try an open fermenter configuration for the first
5 days or so and then rack to a carboy. See the
recent archives for more discussion on open
fermentations.
- --------------------------------------------
Charlie Walker wants to know about malt mills.
Please see the archives, as this subject has
been exhaustively discussed.

I suggest you get an adjustable mill, as I 

find that if I double mill my grist - coarse
and then fine (  at  ~ 0.06 in) I get substantially
better extraction and if you are doing a 

variety of malts, each has a different grain size.

I motorized mine with a drill motor which is 

loosely attached and set to rotate over and
pull the plug when something moves into the
nip which is not malt - and it WILL happen.
You may consider a clutch or shear pin or some
such mechanical or electronic device.
- --------------------------------------------
I hope you all had a wonderful day on 11/15/99
because it was an Odd Day (every digit is odd).
This is the last one we will ever see. After this,
there won't be an Odd Day until 1/1/3111. The
next Even Day will be 2/2/2000, the first since
8/28/888 (just in case you're keeping track....).
- --------------------------------------------
Keep on Brewin'


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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:56:56 -0600
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: Boilover preventer

Alan Prezant asks if anyone has tried a boilover preventer.

I tried a ceramic one (in theory even better than glass) and it didn't seem
to make much difference.  My take, having used such things in the lab, is
that boilovers in wort are more an issue of foaming out, while with less
proteinaceous liquids the problem is "bumping" where a layer of liquid
superheats and then flashes into steam all at once.

If your kettle "burps" during boiling, you might try it.  

Sean


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:10:57 -0600
From: Ron and Sharon <biohazrd at graceba.net>
Subject: Temp Controlled SS Conical Fermenter

We've run a search of the HBD files, so I don't think this subject has
been addressed before.

Beer Beer and More Beer has developed a chilled stainless steel Unitank
that uses two solid state thermoelectric cooling devices to cool the
fermentation up to 30 deg. below room temp (their claim). The SS unitank
is insulated with 1" thick (unspecified type) insulation.

This sounds like the ideal setup but I have some questions for the
Collective;

1.  I've heard of solid state cooling chips but I always thought that,
while efficient, they have relatively little capacity to cool as the
spread between ambient temperature and cooled temperature diverge.

2.  Can the heat of fermentation be efficiently and sufficiently removed
to allow lager ferment temps. in an 80 deg external environment?

If anybody has experience with the B3 cooled fermenter I would be very
interested in hearing about their experiences with it.  Its a great idea
if it works but an expensive bust if it doesn't.  We live in extreem
South Alabama and temperature control has been a problem since we
started brewing.  Currently we use evaporative means to cool ale
fermentations and will be brewing our first lager in a refrigerator next
week.

Ron and Sharon Montefusco
biohazrd at graceba.net
www.graceba.net/~biohazrd


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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:37:18 EST
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: Sanitizing caps

In a message dated 11/20/1999 12:17:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jeff Hall 
<hallj at targen.com> writes:

<< Since sanitizing is back in vogue (as a topic that is), I'd like to know 
what
 others are doing about bottlecaps, and in particular oxygen absorbing caps.
 I don't recall a clear consensus on the oxygen caps.  I have been sealing
 regular caps in pouches and running them through an autoclave.  Sterility
 is no problem, but around 10% of the caps are ruined due to peeling of the
 rubber seal.  Does this happen when caps are boiled also?  Is Iodophor ok
 for the oxygen caps? >>

After boiling off the liners on my caps a few times I just stopped doing 
anything to them.  I haven't had a problem yet.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:13:13 -0600
From: Mike Uchima <uchima at pobox.com>
Subject: Lysol and hop pellets

John asks whether spraying his brewing area with Lysol is a good idea.

Probably no harm, but IMO totally unnecessary.  I'm fairly certain that
most contaminants are either picked up from improperly sanitized
equipment, or airborne (i.e. on dust that settles into your wort). 
Spraying with Lysol isn't going to help with these.

When I started out brewing about 4 years ago, I was pretty anal about
cleanliness of my brewing area, and gave the kitchen a really good
cleaning before I started a brew session.  Since then, I've gotten kind
of lazy -- now I just brush the crumbs off the countertop. :-)  In spite
of this, my beers have continued to improve (due, I assume, to
improvements in other aspects of my brewing process).

Mike complains about racking problems (clogs) when using pellets.

Immersion cooling, whirlpooling, and letting the wort settle for 20
minutes prior to racking to the primary (using my regular racking cane)
has always worked for me.  I don't think I've ever had a clog doing
things this way.

Dry-hopping with pellets, OTOH, can be kind of a PITA, since
whirlpooling is not an option!

- -- 
== Mike Uchima == uchima at pobox.com ==


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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:20:06 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: first wort hopping (part 1)

Thanks to SClaus4688 at aol.com for his discussion of FWH.  A couple of points
of clarification:

>I was surprised to read that there was a standard method.  I recall some
>debate on this subject (i.e., remove the FWH hops or leave them in) in the
>HBD three or four years ago, which never came to a strong conclusion one way
>or the other.

By standard method, I simply meant the in the original German investigation.

>As Jeff mentioned in his post, the FWH beers
>that were the subject of his experiment

I hope you meant the experiment I reported on, not actually MY experiment.
It was conducted in Germany and reported in _Brauwelt_, and then reported
to us by George Fix.  Since traffice is still light, I'll post most of Dave
Draper's web page summary  from
http://brew.oeonline.com/ddraper/beer/1stwort.html.  I think it's
worthwhile reading.  This of course doesn't mean this is the only way to do
it.

 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
First Wort Hopping

In the latter part of 1995, Dr. George Fix posted to the Home Brew Digest
about a process he had recently come across described in the brewing
literature. Since then much interest in the procedure has arisen. The
process is called First Wort Hopping (FWH), and it refers to the practice
of adding hops to the brew kettle, into which sparged runnings are
collected, at the beginning of sparging. The idea is that the hops soak in
the collecting wort (which usually runs out of the lauter tun at
temperatures ranging from 60 to 70C depending on one's setup) for the
duration of the sparge, and the volatile hop constituents undergo very
complicated reactions, producing a complexity of hop bitterness and aroma
that is obtainable no other way. In general, this procedure, which
originated in Germany, has been used in Pils type beers. However, it is
possible that the procedure might also be beneficial for other styles as
well; this remains to be determined.

This page is intended to do two things: first, to provide a brief summary
of the original article mentioned by Dr. Fix, and second, to tabulate the
results of trials of this procedure on a homebrew scale using data provided
by myself and helpful net brewers. The summary of the article appears
immediately below; if you wish you can jump from here directly to the Table
of Trial Results.

First Wort Hopping Summary

The original article on which Dr. Fix reported appeared in the brewing
journal Brauwelt International, by Preis, Nuremberg, and Mitter; vol IV, p.
308, 1995. In this writeup, it is my intention to summarize the main points
of this article so that brewers can at least get some idea what the basic
data look like, and from here the experimentation at the homebrew scale
will undoubtedly provide more insight on how this process might best be
used for our beers.

I will do this in two parts: first, straight reportage, in outline form, on
the contents of the article (any errors or omissions are mine); and second,
some commentary elicited from various brewers in the HBD during March 1996.
This is not intended by any means to be a comprehensive treatment of this
topic; it is only a summary.

Part I. Summary of the Article

1. Introduction. First wort hopping was used extensively at the start of
the century but mainly in order to enhance bitterness rather than aroma. It
was recognized that the higher pH of the wort (as opposed to later in the
boil) had a positive effect on utilization, combatting the effects of
losses from coagulation on break material. The higher pH of the first
runnings enhances isomerization of alpha acids. Other attempts were made to
actually hop the mash (!!); other early efforts involved running the
sparged wort through a hop filter-- a "hop front" instead of a hop back, I
guess...DeClerk steeped the hops in 50C water before adding to the wort (to
remove "unpleasant" stuff); a later worker used 70C water. Both reported
enhanced aroma qualities.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:21:15 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: first wort hopping (part 2)

2. Experimental Procedures. Two different breweries produced the test
brews, Pils types, that make up the subject of this article. The two
breweries make a slightly different version of Pils. No mention was made in
the article whether the beers were products of decoction or infusion mashes
(see comments below). At each brewery, the FWH beer was brewed with a
reference beer alongside. The FWH and Reference beers at each brewery were
done under controlled conditions, identical ingredients, pitching rates,
etc., and differed only in the way they were hopped. The reference beers
were hopped in the customary fashion for the two breweries under
consideration, namely with two late-kettle additions. For the FWH beers
made in both test breweries, the hops that would have been used in these
late-kettle additions were instead dumped into the boiler once its bottom
was covered with wort; no stirring--they just sat there while wort was
sparged on top of them. Brew A (total hopping: 13.0 g alpha acid per
hectolitre of cast wort) was first-hopped with 34% of the total amount
added--Tettnang and Saaz that were typically used in aroma additions at the
alpha acid per hl wort) used only Tettnang, but 52% of the total hop amount
was used as First Wort Hops. No late-kettle aroma hopping was done in
either brew. Brew A was boiled for 90 minutes and Brew B for 80 minutes,
both at atmospheric pressure.

3. Tasting panel results: the FWH beers were overwhelmingly preferred over
the reference beers in triangular taste tests (i.e., each taster was given
three beers, two of either the reference beer or the FWH beer, and one of
the other, and had to correctly identify which two were alike before their
preference results were incorporated in the database). 11 of 12 tasters of
each beer preferred the FWH beer. The main reasons given for the
preference: "a fine, unobtrusive hop aroma; a more harmonic beer; a more
uniform bitterness."

4. Analytical results--bitterness: The FWH beers had more IBUs than did the
reference beers. Brew A: Ref beer was 37.9 IBU, FWH beer was 39.6 IBU. Brew
B: Ref beer was 27.2 IBU, FWH beer was 32.8 IBU. This should come as no
surprise, since more hops were in the kettle for the boil in the FWH beers
than in the Reference beers. Prior to fermentation, the worts from both
breweries showed the following features: the FWH wort had substantially
more isomerized alpha acids, but less non-isomerized alphas. This was
particularly true of Brew B, which had a higher proportion of first-wort
hops. Nevertheless, the bitterness of the FWH beers was described as more
pleasing than the (slightly weaker) bitterness of the reference beers.

5. Analytical results--aroma: For the aroma compounds, very distinct
differences were measured (gas chromatography) in both the identities and
concentrations of the various aromatic compounds between the FWH beers and
the reference beers. Because the precise nature of the effects of aromatic
compounds on beer flavor are very complicated, it cannot be said with
certainty just why the various measurements resulted in the overwhelming
tasting preference, but clearly something is going on here. Even though the
reference beers had higher *absolute amounts* of most of the aroma
compounds, again the FWH beers got higher ratings for overall pleasure.

6. Final comments: each brewery needs to experiment with its own setup for
determining what sort of first-wort hopping is best for it. But the
alpha-acid quantity should *not* be reduced, even if one gets more
bitterness than one would get in the usual way. The tasting panel results
seem to indicate that the bitterness in the FWH beers was fine, and
mild--i.e. there is little harshness that can appear in a highly bittered
beer. If the hops are reduced to compensate for the extra IBUs one gets
from the first-wort hops, then the whole benefit of doing it might be lost.
The recommendation is to use at least 30% of the total hops as first- wort
hops--basically, this means adding the aroma hops as first-wort hops rather
than late kettle additions.

To quote the article:
"...But we recommend that first wort hopping be carried out with at least
30% of the total hop addition, using the later aroma additions. [New
paragraph] As far as the use of hops is concerned, the alpha-acid quantity
should not be reduced even in the case of an improved bitterness
utilisation. The results of the tastings showed that the bitterness of the
beers is regarded as very good and also as very mild. A reduction of the
hop quantity added [to compensate for the presence of more hops early in
the boil--this note added by Dave, it is clear from the context of the
preceding paragraphs] could result in the bitterness being excessively
weakened, and the good "hop flavor impression" could be totally lost."



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Date: 20 Nov 99 11:47:57 PST
From: Ben Newman <benewman at netscape.net>
Subject: pLambic, wheat lautering

Two interesting articles in HBD 3174

#1 -  Eric Theiner writes that a pLambic he made seemed to lose some of 
its
characteristic flavour and aroma.  That's an interesting comment because 
I
brew a Raspberry Ale with a small amount of malted wheat, frozen 
raspberries
and cranberries.  What yeast do you use Eric?  I use Wyeast 1214 Abbey 
Ale
which, in another recipe, develops a distinct bubble gum flavour.  In my
Raspberry Ale it seems quite subdued, you see the person I brew the 
Raspberry
Ale for is not too horny about tasting bubble gum in her beer.  A local 
brewer
tipped me off to the fact that the bubble gum flavour disipates somewhat 
when
other yeast and bacteria are introduced into the "mix" (he has a years of

Lambic experience and a degree in microbiology.  BTW, he says he'll need 
at
least ten more years to develop the recipe he is striving for.  I think 
his
stuff is great).  This dilution of flavour would explain why my Belgian 
Ale
keeps the bubble gum and why the Raspberry Ale doesn't.  Empirical
observation, but very interesting.  Other opinions?.......  p.s. There's
plenty of info on 1214 in the back issues of HBD.  It behaves rather
unusually.

#2 -  Pat Galvin says " I brewed a Belgian Wit with 50%
  raw wheat (step mash) and had no lautering problems."  WOW!!  Good 
work. 

Can anyone else attest to such skill.  In my above mentioned Raspberry 
Ale I
use about 1/3 malted wheat and one day forgot to add the oat hulls I 
usually
sparge with (science experiment in the making).  To my surprise, no stuck

sparge.  I do decoct all my wheat and lager recipes though.  I think I'll
 try
going "oat hull-less" in my "Aventinus" clone which I'm starting after
Christmas if anyone else can attest to using high percent wheat with no 
probs,
Anyone?.....




____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at 

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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 12:08:46 -0800
From: "Keith Christian" <kchris1 at lausd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Fermenters, Secondaries, and Aeration

		Brewers,

I have been fermenting in my  barrel MLT and 
have wondered a few things.

Should I rack to secondary right  after primary?  Or 
can I safely let it set for  2 weeks?  I am concerned 
that the beer will take up too much O2 and oxidize.

Ive been racking from the fermenter to Cornies 
after 5 days (gravity approx. 1.020)  until ready to 
drink.  I avoided racking the beer to another keg).  
Well the bottles that I CPBed  came out tasting 
better than some of the kegged beer, after letting the 
bottles sit for a few days.  Is this probably due to 
not using a secondary before kegging?


I really like fermenting in my MLT.  It is so easy to 
do and clean up is simple.  Perhaps, I need to rack 
to carboys for secondary and then keg.  Or I need 
to rack from one keg to another.   Some of my 
friends comment about the clarity not being real 
good.  Since I cant see through most of my beers 
anyway (Im blind), I have not cared too much.  
They usually taste great, but some of my higher 
gravity beers (1.060-1.070) take up to 6 weeks to 
get in good condition.

Whirl pooling:

There have been many posts on whirl pooling the 
chilled beer and draining/straining with and with out 
scrubbies.  But I dont see many mention where 
their drain is pointing.  Is it preferable to have it 
pointing down with the scrubby  filtering vertical in 
the corner of the pan?  This would seem to work 
the best because the cone is in the center of the 
pan.  This would seem perfect for those who use 
pellet hops.  I have had good luck using a SS 
scrubby   at the center of the pan draining 
horizontally with at least 2 oz whole hops.  Lately, I 
have been using an oz or 2 of pellet hops for 
bittering with the flavor and aroma hops being 
whole.

Aeration and Yeast:

My last few batches have been relatively unplanned. 
 So, I have been using the Nottingham dry yeast 
with good success.  However, I wonder at what 
point do I not want to aerate with O2.  I have a tank 
but have not been using it because I have been 
rehydrating 4 packets of yeast for 13 gallon batches 
and fermentations have gone well.  My half barrel 
fermenter is covered with  a loosely fitted lid and 
has access to as much O2 as needed (from within 
my frig).    .  So, at what point should I use the O2? 
 I want to use it but feel like it might be overkill.

TIA
Keith
Chatsworth CA
Being blind doesnt bug me
	BEING WITHOUT HOMEBREW DOES!!!


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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 15:14:53 -0600
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Re: Stainless Rollers

From: Biergiek at aol.com

>It is an adjustable roller mill that has ss
bushings, a ss knurled roller.....

I think the need for adjustment has be adequately debunked in a previous posting
but to my knowledge, the only mill on the market with stainless steel rollers (I
presume that is what you mean by ss)  is the JPS MALTMILL and then only as a
very expensive option.

No idea what you mean by ss bushings but I suspect another bit of
misinformation.

>That adjustable roller mill you are considering
is almost twice the price!

Obviously he is considering a mill made on Mars.

>For another $10-$20 or so, you can slap a motor
on the Valley Mill......

Is that a standard option?  If so, I will take about a thousand and pay in gold
bullion.

>In summary, for the same price as the other mill
you are considering you can have a mill that
is adjustable, and motorized.....

I have my check book ready.   Where do I mail the check.

>Now just think, if the Valley
Mill folks would advertise their "better mouse
trap" on the HBD the way the other guy has.....

Perhaps they do not believe all the rubbish you are saying about it.

>they could probably relegate that other mill to
the museum... where have I heard this before?!

You are a bit confused.  It's the false bottom that belongs in the museum as a
result of the invention of EASYMASHER,  just another product of my master
intelligence.

All of the mills on the market work fine, ours  just happens to be the best.

Thanks for the opportunity to do a little selling.

js

PHOTO OF THE WEEK  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
HOME: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos  http://user.mc.net/arf


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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:16:51 -0800
From: peter gough <pgough at ameritech.net>
Subject: wyeast

I AM JUST A BEGINNER AT YEAST CULTURES I HAVE ALWAYS USED DRY YEAST CAN
ANYONE HELP ME AND GIVE ME ANY INFORMATION ON HOW TO SUCCESSFULLY DO


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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 19:44:11 EST
From: SClaus4688 at aol.com
Subject: Re: first wort hopping

Thanks Jeff Renner for the good info on FWH.  It filled in some holes for me.

On the point of my original post; i.e., pulling out the FWH hops when the 
wort comes to a boil versus leaving them in, I remembered another reason why 
I am in the "pull them out" camp.  In an old Zymurgy (1985) article, Russell 
Klisch, in discussing the ability of hop and barley tannins to combine with 
proteins and then precipitate, said:

"The tannins from barley are said to combine less rapidly with proteins than 
hop tannins.  The barley tannins, because they have quite a disagreeable 
taste, should be precipitated as completely as possible.  Therefore, the 
addition of the hops should be delayed until the reaction between the barley 
tannins and the proteins is complete."

Klisch goes on to recommend waiting 20 to 30 minutes after the boil has begun 
to add the hops in order to allow this reaction to take place.  If Klisch is 
correct, then it is possible that leaving FWH hops in would be detrimental 
during that first 20 to 30 minutes of the boil.  Of course, this whole 
hypothesis could be based on a big old momily ....

Another issue I raised in my original post was whether a steep of the FWH at 
some undefined optimal single temperature would be more beneficial than 
steeping while the temperature ramps up to boiling.  I read in George Fix's 
Analysis of Brewing Techniques that DeClerck "proposed a closely related 
procedure [to FWHing] where hops are steeped in water before being added to 
the boiling wort."  (The article quoted in Jeff Renner's post also mentions 
this).  Hmmmmm .....   I wonder what temperature DeClerck would have used for 
the steep?

One final note, also taken from Fix's AOBT , is that late kettle additions 
can have several negative impacts, including a harsher bitterness and flavor 
instability.  I also recall reading that late kettle additions can cause haze 
problems due to incomplete reaction between proteins and hop tannins.  That 
being so, and considering the many positive flavor/aroma effects of FWHing, 
my current process "philosophy" deletes all late kettle additions and uses 
FWHing instead.  So far, this change seems to be working well (for me).



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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 19:41:40 -0500
From: "Glen Pannicke" <gpannicke at email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Dry ice

>>Before I spend much time investigating this, I wanted to ask the
collective
>>for any previous experiments or success with carbonating with dry ice.

>I believe dry ice often contains benzene.  I can't, at the moment, quite
>recall why thats bad, but I know it is...

Benzene is a carcinogen.
It's also highly toxic by inhalation, ingestion and skin absorption.
But I've never heard of it being in dry ice before.
I would doubt it since dry ice sublimes into CO2 gas and would liberate the
benzene along with it (tolerance in air: 25 ppm.)  But hey, we do stupid
things every day - like put it in gasoline as an anti-knock agent ;-)

G

================================
gpannicke at alehouse.homepage.com
http://alehouse.homepage.com
================================



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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:07:01 -0800
From: Shannon & Angela Menkveld <shannon.menkveld at gte.net>
Subject: VERY slow mead fermentation

Greetings, Fellow Brewers!

    I've been brewing beer for about 5 years now, but last year was the
first time I had ever tried to make mead.  Last November, I brewed a
mead using 15 pounds of wildflower honey for a 5 gallon batch.  My OG
was 1.145 - 1.150 (my hydrometer is not that accurate at extremely high
gravities) I pitched an active "smack-pack" of Wyeast Sweet Mead yeast,
and added a blend of acid and yeast nutrients.  Then I waited.  And
waited. Fermentation proceeded very slowly at about 72 - 75 degrees.  On
the advice of my homebrew shop, I added a pack of dry champagne yeast,
which kicked up for a couple of days and then went flat again. When I
left on Westpac (I'm in the Navy) in April, the s.g. had dropped to
1.100 or so.  When I returned from deployment in October, the mead had
dropped to 1.072.  Today, it is 1.068  Last week, I racked it again and
hit it with an active culture of Wyeast Dry Mead yeast.  This time, no
"kickover".  About the only thing I haven't tried is "yeast energizer".
I know meads take longer to ferment that beers do, but nowhere have I
seen any thing about meads only being 2/3 done after a year.  Am I
worrying unnecessarily, or is there something I should be doing?  Any
help or advice would be appreciated.


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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 10:42:30 -0600
From: gdhipple <gdhipple at uswest.net>
Subject: carboy cleaning



original message from --------------------

>Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:27:57 -0500
>From: "James R M  Gilson" <JIMKATZOO at email.msn.com>
>Subject: carboy cleaning

A lot of my primary carboys are old terrariums from the 60s and 70s. 
Pretty crusty after sitting in garages and basements for a couple of 
decades.

I started with a general washing to remove loose debris, followed by 
soaking them with a muriatic acid solution. I added about a pint to the 
carboy volume (5 and 6.5 gal). I let the this soak for a couple of days. 
Muriatic acid (hydrochloric) is a very strong acid you can get at a 
hardware store or pool supply. Be sure to follow the precautions on the 
bottle. Wear gloves and safety goggles. Make sure you can properly handle 
the carboy and have a accessible place to pour it out (like a floor 
drain).

I followed this with a thorough rinse, filled the carboy again and added 
a box of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Let stand for a couple hours, 
brush if you feel like it. Pour out down the same drain you poured the 
acid solution.

Rinse

Before use, I followed my standard cleaning procedure - 1 cup sudsy 
ammonia in water filled carboy, soak (12 hours), brush, rinse, sanitize 
with Iodophor and air dry.



G Hipple
    N 44 57.205'
    W 93 03.567'

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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 17:59:40 -0600
From: gdhipple <gdhipple at uswest.net>
Subject: Dry Hopping / Post-Brew Hopping


There have been a lot of interesting and creative techniques described 
for post-brew hop additions. I like Bob Sutton's "drip coffee maker hop 
tea." I'm going to have to give that one a try.

I have tried 2 approaches to hopping at bottling that might be of 
interest to other hop-heads.

The first attempt involved adding a whole, Cascade cone to each bottle. 
This made an IPA with a remarkable hop-nose. It wasn't without it's 
problems though. I dipped each cone in vodka before jamming it in the 
bottle and filling. The vodka was an attempt to 'sanitize the cone' and 
also made it easier to handle vs the dry cone. I used my standard 95 
grams of priming sugar, but probably should have used less given the 
addition of the hop cone and vodak. The beers were slightly gushing, 
which may have been the result of an slight infection or maybe 
fermentables in the vodka. The cones initially wanted to float, making 
pouring difficult, but after several weeks in the bottle, dropped to the 
bottom. More time in the bottle lead to the cones falling apart and the 
individual bracts floating around and pouring out in the glass. My 
mustache seemed an effected strainer at removing the bracts from the 
glass :-)

In my second attempt at bottle hopping, I added hop pellets to the 
priming sugar. I boiled my pint of primer as usual and then added the 
pellets, allowing them to steep as the primer cooled. I poured the 
priming solution into the bottling bucket through a sanitized strainer, 
removed the strainer and racked in the beer. The resulting beer did not 
have the hop-nose or aroma of the whole cone addition, but it was pretty 
good! The beer did not gush like the whole cone bottles and I didn't have 
to pick bracts from my mustache.

I results of the whole cone approach was the most dramatic. Next time I 
use whole cones in the bottle, I'll try George Fix's steaming technique 
to help sanitize and improve handling of the cone.



G Hipple
    N 44 57.205'
    W 93 03.567'

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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:36:40 -0500
From: aaron <bd690 at sprint.ca>
Subject: Gordon's cave a vin homebrew comp.

Gordon's Cave a Vin is holding a competion on Feb 6th. Entries will be
accepted from Jan 8th - 29 th. 5 Dollars per entry. Send entries to:
    Gordon's Cave a Vin
    5785 Sherbrooke O.
    Montreal Qc,
    H4A 1X2
Any judges interested in making the trip to Montreal can contact:
 Nathan McNutt: (514) 486-8467
or Aaron Marchand: bd690 at sprint.ca




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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 21:38:03 -0500
From: "Rob Jones" <robjones at pathcom.com>
Subject: BT back issue order

Hi,

Has anybody received anything from BT after the letter offering to settle
accounts due with back issues? I dutifully sent in my back issue request and
have been waiting ever since. Glad I've not been holding my breath.

I unfortunately had just renewed my subscription when the news broke of its
demise.

Any news from any fronts about a revival/replacement?

Rob Jones
Toronto



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:22:55 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Overly-bitter beer

Marc Sedam asks about how to compensate or correct an overly-bitter 
beer before he bottles/kegs.  He states that it may be merely out of
balance, even for himself, a hophead.

If the beer is merely too bitter, I believe my suggestion below to add
lactose can help.  If the beer is overly "hoppy" with hop flavor,
that's a different story.

If the beer is too bitter, I would suggest adding some lactose
(nonfermentable) before bottling/kegging.  I am a true believer that
the bitterness can be "hidden" with some sugar.  (The old saying, "A
spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down", is quite true.)  I
would experimenting with a sample by adding a known amount of lactose
to the sample of known volume, tasting it, and adjusting the lactose
addition to the whole batch accordingly.

You could also do this in steps during the bottling procedure if you
bottle and don't want to risk the whole batch.  Bottle a portion of
the batch with a relatively lower amount of lactose (or none) and
adding more to subsequent portions of the batch.
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina


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