---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Sodium Hypochlorite ("Dan Kiplinger")
  Whirlpooling the wort ("Dan Kiplinger")
  more dry ice (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Re: Fruit Beers & New Orleans (KMacneal)
  Science & Art ("Luke Van Santen")
  Can you say "Carcinogen"? (Eric.Fouch)
  Unusual ferment ("Sieben, Richard")
  MCAB (Nathan Kanous)
  Re: Unusual Fermentation Foam (Jeff Renner)
  Jeff Wenner and Pwonunciation/Hart's Superchiller ("Ken Schramm")
  RE:New Orleans ("Kelly")
  MM-JSP/Stability Q's/old hops ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Glass Boilover Preventer ("Prezant, Alan ")
  Cell Counts & Starter Volume (Biergiek)
  Benzene in dry ice? ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Lambic Question ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Adjustable Mill (Biergiek)
  Choreboys, N'awlins Wasteland (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Bavarian Hefe Questions ("Pat Galvin")
  Beer Fridge lessons ("Guy and Norine Gregory")
  sanitizing, dry ice and yeast (Jeff Hall)
  New Orleans Beer ("Bill Riel")
  Re: Summer Brewing in Australia (Colton House)
  first wort hopping (SClaus4688)
  brewing widgets (darrell.leavitt)
  Unusual Fermentation Foam Beer Wasteland (RCAYOT)
  Chlorine (Jerry Berry)
  New Orleans--re-visited (MVachow)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 00:55:08 -0500
From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com>
Subject: Sodium Hypochlorite

I have one thing to add to the following post:


- ---Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:26:22 -0500
- ---From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net>
- ---Subject: Re: Basic Questions

- --->believe that the Clorox company recommends 1 tablespoon per gallon as a
no
- --->rinse sanitizer.  Remember, we're not making them sterile, just killing
the

- ---I would follow this "no rinse" advice only when attempting a Classic
- ---German Hypochloritebier or perhaps a Dunkel Hypochloritebier ;-)

- ---Phil Sides, Jr.
- ---Concord, NH
 - --
- ---Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!



If you let your equipment completely dry after using the 1 Tbs. per gallon
of bleach then you won't have the "hypochlorite blues".  Even though this
will work, It is much easier to use a 12.5 PPP solution of Iodophor and not
rinse.  If you drain or shake off the excess Iodophor off of your equipment,
I guarantee that you will not be able to taste it in your beer.

If you don't believe me, make up a 12.5 PPM solution of Iodophor (approx.
3ml of 1.6% TT iodine Iodophor) and add a tablespoon of it to a pint of your
favorite home-brew.  Try it side by side.  Note: this is obviously overkill
as far as the amount of iodine you could actually get into your whole batch
if you empty or shake off the excess.  Not only that, if you wait a few
minutes after removing the equipment from the Iodophor, much of the
available iodine will evaporate leaving you with even less.  (Solid iodine
crystals will actually sublimate at room temperature)

Dan



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 02:40:55 -0500
From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com>
Subject: Whirlpooling the wort

I have read the discussion on the chore boy and scrubbie problems and would
like to comment.
I don't use any screen and I don't siphon.  I just whirlpool the stuff and
drain the kettle slowly (but not THAT slowly).  I typically drain 16 gallons
in 20 to 25 minutes (and when I used a 15.5 gal keg as a boiling kettle, I
drained at about the same rate).  One to Two gallons a minute is pretty slow
and won't bother the trub and pelletized hop residue concentrated in the
middle of the kettle.
I will admit that if you use leaf hops, you may need to use a scrubbie to
eliminate the small percentage of hops that will still migrate through the
drain.  However, this still seems like a better way to decant the beer from
the kettle.  Siphoning -- always seemed more trouble than it's worth (and
kinda dangerous).  Not to say that it can't be done and done well.  If you
already have a drain at the bottom of your kettle, stir your wort, let it
stop spinning, and drain it out of the kettle as slow as you need to leave
the sediment undisturbed.

Dan


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:28:34 +0100
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: more dry ice

Hi,

About dry ice. I once tried to carbonate my beer in swingtop bottles with
dry ice. It was like (I think, never been there; maybe next year) Cape
Kennedy!  That's because dry ice (solid carbondioxyde at minus 62.2  degrees
F) rapidly starts boiling in contact with fluid.
If dry ice contains benzene (carcinogen) or other contaminations, depends on
the source (you have to ask the supplier).

Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema
http://www.cybercomm.nl/~aikema/index.html



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:19:00 EST
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: Fruit Beers & New Orleans

In a message dated 11/19/1999 12:21:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, Glen 
Pannicke writes:

<< Suggestions on racking onto fruit vs. adding fruit to beer?                
 
  >>

I've had very good results racking beer on to fruit in the secondary.  I've 
brewed peach & cranberry ales.  I freeze the fruit as you mentioned, let it 
thaw, and stuff it into the secondary.  I haven't sulfited and haven't 
noticed any ill effects (one of my peach beers made it to the second round of 
the AHA competition).  The person who wrote about racking hot wort onto fruit 
should don his flame proof suit and get ready for all the postings about HSA.

It's been awhile since I've been in New Orleans, so I don't know if it's 
still there, but I highly recommend the Crescent City Brew Pub.

Speaking of recommendations, I have a Schmidling non-adjustable Malt Mill and 
have been very satisfied with its performance over the past 4 or 5 years 
(8-10 batches/year).



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 06:26:42 -0600
From: "Luke Van Santen" <Luke.VanSanten at dot.state.mn.us>
Subject: Science & Art

Greetings!

In HBD 3173, Rod Prather said - 

Bob, actually I couldn't agree with you more.  Brewing is an art
because the outcome is asthetic.  Subjective to human senses and
preferences which are variable from person to person.  

To which I reply -

True. But saying an activity is an art because it is "subject (ive?) to 
human senses and preferences" also means that highway design is an art, 
and I 
don't know many people that feel that way. 

Perhaps this is just the fun of trying to define things ;-)

I would have to agree with the previous definition offered or repeated 
by 
Mr. Prather - engineering is the application of science. That says it all.

Luke Van Santen
St. Louis Park, MN



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 08:34:00 -0500
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: Can you say "Carcinogen"?

I knew you could!!

>Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:56:08 -0500
>From: Israel Christie <ichristie at vt.edu>
>Subject: Re: Dry ice
>
>>Before I spend much time investigating this, I wanted to ask the collective
>>for any previous experiments or success with carbonating with dry ice.
>
>I believe dry ice often contains benzene.  I can't, at the moment, quite
>recall why thats bad, but I know it is...


Eric Fouch
Deep in the heart of South West Michigan.


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:37:41 -0600
From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com>
Subject: Unusual ferment

Jack Straw was concerned about his unusual experience of his ferment
crawling out of the carboy, Well don't worry, be happy because your yeastie
beasties are!  Before I ever stepped up my yeast and just pitched straight
from the smack pack, I only had one batch do this in 4 years of brewing.  I
started stepping up my yeast to 1qt starters and it happedned about half of
the time....hmmm more yeast mass maybe?  Then, I got one of those stainless
steel oxygenating stones and some pure O2 and started dosing the freshly
chilled wort with about 10 seconds of pure O2 and so far EVERY batch crawls
out through the blow off tube (in conjuction with stepping up the yeast).  I
made a 'lawnmower' mild ale this summer with an OG of 1.032 and it was done
in primary in 2 days and I was drinking it on day 7!  I never say a complete
ferment happen so fast.   So, I guess the moral of the story is that it
helps a lot to do both of those things and Jack need not worry.

Rich Sieben
Island Lake, IL


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:59:04 -0600
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: MCAB

Louis,
I visited the MCAB website a day or two ago and it indicates that there are 
still MCAB II competitions to be completed in May of 2000.  How can you 
begin MCAB III before MCAB II is finished?


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 08:53:31 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Unusual Fermentation Foam

Peter, alias Jack Straw <jstraw79 at pacbell.net>

>got tired of 1056

It is boring, isn't it.  A "transparent" yeast.  It ferments but leaves no
particular character.

>and ... tried
>the Burton Ale Yeast from White Labs
<snip>
>pitched my Burton ale yeast and it is climbing out of the carboy, and
>the foam is unlike any other I have ever seen.  There is so much of it
>and it is almost like cauk

Peter, welcome to the wonderful world of top fermenting yeast!  That
caulk-like substance is pure yeast.  Ain't it wonderful?  For years, back
when all we could get was dry yeast, I always wondered what top fermenting
meant.  Then when the first fresh or "liquid" yeasts became available, I
found out, as you now have.  Traditional ale yeasts rise to the top of the
fermenting beer, some more strongly than others.  The ones I use most often
generally rise to form a pretty solid pancake on the third day (sounds
vaguely symbolic, doesn't it?) after pitching.  I ferment 8 gallons in a
covered 10 gallon stock pot (the same one I use to heat sparge water) and
sometimes I have to put an aluminum foil extension to contain the yeasty
foam.  I "harvest" this yeast by the method  Dave Line suggested (when I
never saw top cropping yeast) all those years back in "The Big Book of
Brewing" (from which I learned to mash 20 years ago, still a good book
despite being superceded by ingredient availability and still in print).  I
take a big clean spoon and pat the back of it on the yeast.  This picks it
up and leaves the foam behind.  I scrape this into a sanitized jar and keep
it for the next batch.  It is pure yeast with very little liquid - about
the consistence of putty or peanut butter.  I understand it is virtually
all live cells because the dead ones drop to the bottom rather than
clumping.

With your blowoff attached to a carboy, you have the beginnings of a Burton
Union fermentation method, and while I'm not familiar with the particular
strain of yeast you have, perhaps it is the one that developed thru
selection in fermentation in unions.*  A Burton Union consists of rows of
good sized casks with a swan neck attached to the top bung hole of each
that emptys into long troughs.  These troughs look like the long metal
urinals you sometimes see at stadiums.  Beer and yeast and crud are pushed
out through the swan necks and the beer runs down to the end where it is
collected through a drain and returned to the fermenters.  This method is
said to "cleanse" the beer of yeast.  It was the traditioinal method of
fermenting the famous Burton pale ales including Bass, but it was abandoned
as impractical in recent decades.  It has been revived by one brewery,
although I can't remember its name.

*Strangely, Terry Foster writes in _Pale Ale_ (Classic Beer Series) that
the Burton system used a powdery, non-flocculent yeast which produced the
well attenuated Burton ales (and it is not clear which came first, the
system to cope with the yeast or the yeast selected by the system).  I
don't understand how such a yeast would get pushed out if it remained in
suspension and didn't flocculate.  Perhaps your Burton yeast is not the
same.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:26:56 -0500
From: "Ken Schramm" <schramk at resa.net>
Subject: Jeff Wenner and Pwonunciation/Hart's Superchiller

Having wead sevewal of Jeff's posts about wotten egg smeww, I qwestion 
Jeff's Cwedibiwity in giving counsel on pwonunciation.  Pewhaps Jeff could 
stick to commentawy on Pwe-Pwohibition Piwsnews, about which I considew 
him qwite an awthouwity.

Sowwy, Jeff, I had to do it.

Also the Hart's superchiller was the hands down winner of our evaluation. 
I don't know about the P.B.S maxichiller,  but as far as the Hart, I can't 
see how anybody would be displeased with owning one.

Ken Schramm,
Troy, Mi 
Jeff Wenner wives 50 miwes southwest of Twoy
216 days until the best homebrew bash of the new millennium.
The smoker will be stoked, for those who like sweet, slightly carbonized 
salmon, turkey, pheasants, venison, pork....
AHA2K: June 22, 23, 24
Livonia Holiday Inn
near Detroit, MI

Fred Sheer, if you are out there, Morten Milegaard has given me a verbal 
commitment to present, so you would be in good company, if we can persuade 

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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 08:45:23 -0600
From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: RE:New Orleans

Not to mention the Bulldog on Magazine St.
I even like the Crescent City Brew House...their brews are tastey.  And I
just had some of the Abita Fall Fest seasonal brew....tasted perfectly
hopped to me...

Next time you're down here...give Cooters and the Bulldog a try.  And if
you're at the Bulldog, ask for a pint of the Jockamo....only available in
kegs at certain places around town...its made by Abita...and boy, is it ever
good!!!  I'm still trying to figure out how to re-create this on my
own......

My $0.02,

kelly


A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention,
With the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.


Quoted Stuff:
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 02:53:16 -0500
From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net>
Subject: Re: New Orleans

Domenick Venezia wrote:

>BTW - I was recently in New Orleans, a beer wasteland.  Bud, Bud-Lite,
>Miller, Miller-lite, with the imports being Coors and Coors-lite.
>Abita was available in many places.  Someone needs to tell Abita about
>hops.  Apparently they don't know that you can add them to beer.

Next time, go to Cooter Brown's.  I don't need to say anything else ;-)

Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:26:23 -0500
From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: MM-JSP/Stability Q's/old hops

Charlie,

I have the Non-adjustable. I tried to buy the adjustable but it wasn't in stock
when I needed it. As it turns out I'll never need it. I have ground Oats, Rye,
Wheat, unmalted wheat, unmalted barley, American 6-row, Distillers malt, and
just about every known base malt available.  I needed a 2nd pass only on the rye
and the American 6-row i got from Stroh's.

Its just not worth it. I get a perfect crush with great extraction every time.
When I know Im using funky stuff, i do that first and re-investigate, sometimes
I do a second grind. Do i get "too much" dust? Apparently not. Even with my CAP,
I reground all the 6-row, and added 30% flaked corn, and it lautered
beautifully.

The adjustable MM can be adjusted Wrong, and quite frequently is. Why bother
risking Mucking it up? IMHO you will spend more time dinking around with
adjustments, quite often getting them wrong, than you will with occasionally
have to make 2 passes.
- -----------
Sean Richens asks about long term stability. I mead making folks occasionally
use potassium Sorbate to stave off further fermentation. What effect would
adding this to beer have?????? Would it prevent the slow metabolism of
maltotriose or tetratrose???

- ----------
I was under the impression that one could surf the Hop Union Web Site and find
the alpha's for old hops if you had the Lot# and Bail#.  I scored some 1992
Cluster hops, vacume sealed in oxy barrier bags and have the info needed, but
couldn't find the alpha info. Several of us got samples of these hops so it
would be nice to know what they were.

I used them anyway, guessed at 6.5% and the CAP came out great! FWH and all...
Thank you Jeff and George for this wonderfull style. I finally found a style
that my megaswill friends will not only try, but enjoy!

Phil Wilcox



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:53:21 -0500
From: "Prezant, Alan " <aprezant at kpmg.com>
Subject: Glass Boilover Preventer

I bought a glass boilover preventer (a 3 inch Pyrex? disk with a lip around
the edge) to put in the bottom of my brewpot.  I found it at a Lechters
Housewares (no affiliation; don't know if this is a national chain) for
$1.99.  I've searched the archives and saw a few threads on the subject.
Before I use it in my next batch, I'm wondering if anyone has experienced
any problems related to using one.  

Alan Prezant
Montvale, NJ


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:57:42 EST
From: Biergiek at aol.com
Subject: Cell Counts & Starter Volume

I was able to find a pretty good estimate for yeast
starter cell counts as a function of starter volume
from Daniels book "Designing Great Beers".  He
suggests that a good cell count estimate is 50E6
yeast cells per ml of starter (for those in the
Grand Rapids, MI, area that is 50 million - don't
use your fingers and toes, it won't work).  All you
need to know now is to estimate the volume of wort
in the fermenter, and the OG of your beer, so you
can hit the target starter cell concentration of
1E6 cells/ml/degree P. Here's an example:

OG = 1.050 = 50/4 = 12.5 degrees P
Volume = 5 gal = 50 * 3.875 * 1000 = 19,375 ml

Required Starter Volume = (1E6*19375*12.5)/50E6

= 4844 ml = 4.8 L = 1.25 gallons

To sum this up for the West MI'ers: you will need
a 1.25 gallon starter for 5 gallons of a 50
gravity beer to reach the required commercial
yeast pitching rates.

Kyle


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:16:18 -0800
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: Benzene in dry ice?

>I believe dry ice often contains benzene.  I can't, at the moment,
quite
>recall why thats bad, but I know it is...

I don't know why dry ice would contain benzene-- I thought that the
method for making it was a simple compression-cooling-expansion
process.  But often things are more complex than they first appear, so
it may well contain benzene.

As to why that would be bad, two words:  potent carcinogen.  (And I
think it'll eat your liver, too.)

Rick






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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:40:32 -0800
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic at skantech.com>
Subject: Lambic Question

First, what's the difference between a Plambic and a regular lambic?  I
thought that a Plambic (aka pseudo-lambic) was a shot at making a beer
like a lambic through formulation and additions, but not through the use
of bacterial strains.  But reading these posts more carefully, it seems
that everyone is making Plambics-- even when all the standard bacteria
and lengthy aging is used.  What gives?

Next question-- I have made a Plambic/lambic of the cranberry variety.
Don't recall the grain bill off the top of my head, but I basically
mashed, got conversion, dropped temp to 135, added a handful of DWC
Pilsen malt, and let it sit for about 24 hours (for the sour-mash; would
this make it a Plambic?).  Then collected the runnings, sparged, and
boiled.  What a pleasant aroma that boil was.  My next-door neighbor
asked me if I'd vomited into my wort while it was boiling.

I cooled it, then pitched a Belgian ale yeast along with the Wyeast
Lambic Blend.  I let it go for 3 weeks, then racked onto 6# of crushed,
pastuerized cranberries.  When I racked it over, I sampled some and it
was great!  Lots of gueze character with all kinds of living aromas and
flavors.  I let it set for 4 months on the cranberries, and now just
racked it over onto another 6# of cranberries.  I plan on kegging in a
few weeks.

But this last time, it was good, not great like it was before.  It seems
almost lifeless compared to the first racking.  Does anyone have any
ideas as to why a lot of the flavors and aromas I expected to develop
and intensify are actually much more subdued?

Thanks for any thoughts!

Rick Theiner



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:09:36 EST
From: Biergiek at aol.com
Subject: Adjustable Mill

Charlie Walker asks for opinions on adjustable
roller mills.

Charlie, have you checked out the Valley Mill?
It is an adjustable roller mill that has ss
bushings, a ss knurled roller, a large 7#
capacity hopper, and the only knock on it by
its major competitor is that is has a passive
roller (no big deal for the home brewer).  I
think the cost is $99 bucks, and is more
affordable than that other mill your are
considering which is only a fixed roller mill.
That adjustable roller mill you are considering
is almost twice the price!

The adjustable feature is essential, and comes
as no extra charge with the Valley Mill.
Anyone who thinks they can achieve consistent
extraction rates milling 6 row, 2 row, and malted
wheat at the same nip are nuts!

For another $10-$20 or so, you can slap a motor
on the Valley Mill and say good bye to hand
cranking forever.

In summary, for the same price as the other mill
you are considering you can have a mill that
is adjustable, and motorized.  Probably the best
deal available in the homebrew mill market...
just my opinion.  Now just think, if the Valley
Mill folks would advertise their "better mouse
trap" on the HBD the way the other guy has, 
they could probably relegate that other mill to
the museum... where have I heard this before?!

Kyle
Bakersfield, CA


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:40:29 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Choreboys, N'awlins Wasteland

>Scrubbies are the steel or copper pads used to scrub pans and such. A
>great brand is chore boy.  The usual way to use them is to attach them to
>your racking cane and siphon as usual.  I use a copper pipe and a hose
clamp
>to connect mine.   Works fantastic... with whole hops....

So much talk, so many difficulties, it seems that if there's one
quintessential problem us new (and old) homebrewers have encountered
sometime in the brewing experience, it is the dreaded clogging siphon.

And indeed the scrubby on the end of the cane seems to be the universal
solution.  I also had some clogging when using the scrubby, until I started
the practice of putting the little end cap onto the racking cane, then place
this into the scrubby.  It seems to make all the difference when using
pellets.

By the way, you can now get the Choreboy in stainless steel, look around for
it.

- ---------------------
Wasteland, you gotta know where to go.  How many times in a restaurant, have
I heard the waitstaff proudly announce Heineken, as the upper scale beer!

So you visitors try:

   * Take a nice 45 minute drive any Saturday or Sunday to the Abita
brewery, and visit the 'Tap Room', where you will find the freshest and
latest Abita beers, free, on tap along with many other visitors taking the
brewery tour.

   * Stop by at Cooter Browns, where you will find over a hundred beers on
tap, including LIndeman's Frambose on tap!  Here you will discover the heart
of N'awlins food.  The guys there in the small closet like kitchen put out
some of the best 'comfort food' (whatever that is), I mean, wow, how do they
do that!

   * Acadian brewpub, where you will likely find the brewers there, drinking
and talking about beer, some of the best Pilsner in the states.

   * Many other places, I just haven't been to yet.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:03:21 -0800
From: "Pat Galvin" <Pat_Galvin at ermwest.com>
Subject: Bavarian Hefe Questions

A question for the esteemed collective:
I am gearing up to brew a Bavarian Hefeweizen.
Have had much success with extract Hefe's but never brewed an all grain.
I brew in converted Sankes with a stainless false bottom for mashing/lautering.
Can step mash using my HERMS.
My questions are:
1)  Comment on the necessity of decoction mashing - I would rather not take the
time.
2)  Given that I can do temperature boosts easily, what is a recommended mashing
schedule?
3)  What ratio of wheat to 2-row would be recommended?
After seven batches with my system, I have not enjoyed a "stuck" mash.  Would
like to continue to boast this in the future.  I brewed a Belgian Wit with 50%
raw wheat (step mash) and had no lautering problems.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Pat Galvin
Folsom, CA



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:22:23 -0800
From: "Guy and Norine Gregory" <guyg at icehouse.net>
Subject: Beer Fridge lessons 

Colleagues:

Another stupid brewer trick.  I was installing my Robin Broyles design (see
The Brewery/Library for a schematic) heat/cool thermostat on my new
beerfridge.  It worked great on my old fridge.

In order to install it on this newer model, I needed to drill a hole.  I
selected a location, got a 1/2 inch bit, and drilled into the outside.  Once
thru, I dug out the insulation as best I could, until I reached a plastic
liner.  No problem, I thought, it was hard beneath the liner, so I drilled
away.

Immediately beneath the liner was a wiring harness.  Got it, dead center.
Blue flame out the hole, big pop, some smoke, and the fridge stopped.

Reaction: Grab hole saw, make bigger hole to see the problem.  Drill two 2
1/2 inch adjacent holes and view several wires snapped.

Action: reconnect like wires with like wires, and hope.  Yes, it worked,
fridge back in action, now a 4 x 2.5 inch hole in the side of my fridge, but
the probe and the new thermostat get installed, clog hole with insulation,
cover all over with duct tape, and we're on the road.  1.5 hours to do a 10
minute job.  Thermostat works very good, and new  batch of Luna Quarta
Vienna Lager is clucking away happily at 47 degrees F constant.

Lessons learned:

1, Unplug the fridge before you go drilling on it, dummy. Though
electrocution is probably not a problem, a real live insulation fire is bad
form.

2. After drilling the outside, make sure you remove enough insulation to see
the interior surface.  Make no assumptions.  These guys hide wires and stuff
everywhere.  I was worried about a refrigeration coil, wires are bad too.

3. If you don't do 1 or 2 above, have lots of holesaws available. They don't
cut metal well.

Happy holidays, gang.

Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
Spokane, WA

Soon to celebrate the best duck season in years with Dux Deluxe Ale!



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:28:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Hall <hallj at targen.com>
Subject: sanitizing, dry ice and yeast

Since sanitizing is back in vogue (as a topic that is), I'd like to know what
others are doing about bottlecaps, and in particular oxygen absorbing caps.
I don't recall a clear consensus on the oxygen caps.  I have been sealing
regular caps in pouches and running them through an autoclave.  Sterility
is no problem, but around 10% of the caps are ruined due to peeling of the
rubber seal.  Does this happen when caps are boiled also?  Is Iodophor ok
for the oxygen caps?
I sampled beer carbonated with dry ice once.  It was better than being
poked in the eye with a sharp stick, but only barely.  To be fair, I'm sure
the beer was aweful prior to the addition of dry ice.  I'd be concerned
about the purity and sterility of stuff though.
I've recently started keeping yeast at home and would like to culture
some from commercial brews.  Widmer Hef and Chimay are often mentioned,
but does anyone have info on which others are either good (or bad) for using
to ferment with?  I'm especially interested in Franziskaner Hefeweizen or
like beers.
Thanks to all,

Jeff Hall,  Seattle



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:29:35 -0800
From: "Bill Riel" <briel at uniserve.com>
Subject: New Orleans Beer

Dave Burley wrote:

>Dominick complained about N'Orleans being a beer
>wasteland. Too bad you didn't stop by the Crescent
>City Brewery across from the Cafe DuMonde. I did
>an East Coast/Southern US tour a couple of years ago.
>Of selected craft breweries/pubs this was wonderful,
>with authentic lagers, the rest of the breweries/pubs
>offerings were disappointing.

I second this nomination for Crescent City - My wife and I practically
lived there when we visited New Orleans last summer. The brewmaster had
some pretty nice German style lagers on tap that were the perfect
antidote to the blazing heat! 

Ahh... fond memories of Shrimp Po Boys and Dunkel :-)


Cheers,

Bill



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:35:32 -0600
From: Colton House <coltonhse at btl.net>
Subject: Re: Summer Brewing in Australia

In Belize it is warm all year round and I have been brewing all grain
English bitter, Brown ale, Oatmeal stout, IPA, Wheat beer, Californian
steam beer and Ale meads at average fermentation temperatures of 84
degrees F for 3 years now with great success. I use Wyeast 2112 for my
steam beer and 3056 for the wheat beer, both of these are used
repeatedly by rinsing with sterile water, adding 10% gylcerine and
freezing until next use. I use Danstar London and Nottingham dry yeasts
for the bitter, brown ale and stout, and champagne yeast for the ale
mead.
My normal procedure is 5 days primary, 5 days secondary, 5 days in
bottle at room temperature and then to the fridge and consume. The 5
gall of beer is usually gone within 6 weeks of brewing and maybe this is
why I do not seem to have any problems.

Alan Colton
Swamp Water Brewing Company of Belize

P.S. If there are any other Belizean homebrewers out there please get in
touch.


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:20:31 EST
From: SClaus4688 at aol.com
Subject: first wort hopping

In HBD#3173, the esteemed Jeff Renner says in reply to Robert Waddell's post 
about removing hops as they come to a boil in first wort hopping:

>I suppose this would work for the flavor, but it is not the standard
>method

I was surprised to read that there was a standard method.  I recall some 
debate on this subject (i.e., remove the FWH hops or leave them in) in the 
HBD three or four years ago, which never came to a strong conclusion one way 
or the other.

I have experimented both with leaving the hops in and taking them out.  I am 
currently in the "take them out" camp.  The reason is that I feel I have more 
control over bitterness if I remove the FWH hops before the boil and then 
later add exactly the amount of bittering hops I want to achieve more or less 
my desired level of bitterness.  As Jeff mentioned in his post, the FWH beers 
that were the subject of his experiment (and which had the hops left in for 
the boil) had an increased perceived bitterness.  I think (without proof 
beyond my own taste buds) that removing the FWH hops before the boil brings 
bitterness within more standard range, while leaving intact the flavor and 
aroma effects associated with FWHing.

A related point that has not received much attention is whether there is an 
optimal wort temperature range for the desired effects of FWH.  Here's a data 
point.  Before I moved to my current three tier setup, I used to run my 
lauter runoff into a big picnic cooler where the wort would remain at 150 - 
160f until sparging was complete.  The wort was then pumped up into my boiler 
(which also happened to be my mash tun/lauter vessel).  The whole process 
took about 45 minutes.  I would toss whole hops into the picnic cooler at the 
beginning of the sparge and then leave the hops behind when I pumped back up 
to the boiler.  The flavor I achieved doing this was, I think, superior to 
the flavor that I am able to attain now using my current system, which 
involves sending the lauter runoff directly to the boiler, tossing the hops 
into the boiler, and leaving them there until the wort reaches a boil.

The basic difference between the two processes is that in the picnic cooler 
system, the entire FWHing process occurred at about 160f, whereas my newer 
process takes place while the wort is ramping up from 160f to boiling.

What is the flavor difference between the two processes?  I think the single 
lower temperature FWHing brought out hop aroma more with a result very 
similar to dry hopping.  Leaving the hops in as the wort comes to a boil 
emphasizes flavor more, but develops an astringent flavor that can take 4-6 
weeks of conditioning to smooth out.

I'd be interested in hearing other peoples experiences with various FWHing 
methods.  The one thing I know for sure is that FWHing can have a very 
positive affect on the finished product (the PU clone I made last year with 
FWH Saaz has reached near mythic status among my beer loving friends).  
However, as Jeff mentioned, there is not much in the available texts on this 
technique.  We're kind of flying by the seat of our pants, and it would be 
great to develop a shared knowledge base.



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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:38:06 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: brewing widgets

sorry to bother you all with this, but a few weeks back I was able to 
get into the brewing widgets  at  hbd.org .   However, it now says that I
don't have permission, or something of that sort.  Does anyone know 
where these have gone?
thankyou.
 ..Darrell


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Date: 19 Nov 1999 13:38:02 -0500
From: RCAYOT at solutia.com
Subject: Unusual Fermentation Foam Beer Wasteland

     Jack Straw asks about unusual fermentation foam:  Jack 
     congratulations!  You are fermenting with a bonefied Top Cropping Ale 
     yeast!  They do this (I think I read) that the yeasts bud and then 
     stick together to form mini colonies, and those colonies generate CO2, 
     and rise to the surface of the beer.  Other non top croppijng yeasts 
     stay in suspension as independent yeast cells, and when done 
     fermenting settle out.  I happen to perfer top cropping yeasts, they 
     tend to have more character, and are generally less atenuating than 
     other yeasts.  I have no specific experience with the exact yeast 
     strain you are using, but I bet your beer is just fine!
     
     Domenick Venezia wrote:
     BTW - I was recently in New Orleans, a beer wasteland.  
     
     While NO is not exactly a beer wasteland, I would have to agree that 
     the beer culture on the FL to LA Gulf Coast is really not one of your 
     better beer locale's!  There are some GREAT breweries in the area, the 
     problem is that if you don't know about them you will easily miss any 
     opportunity to sample thier brew!  Bars, and restaurants do not 
     usually carry micro brews, or even regional brews!  Some places have a 
     decent selection of bottled beer, but those are usually the larger 
     regional and mega/micro's Sierra Nevada PAle Ale, Sam Adams Boston 
     LAger, and a few others.  The large majority of the customers just 
     don't care and don't ask for these products, so the establishments 
     don't carry them, so neither do the distributors!  
     
     Having lived here in Pensacola Fl for three years, I can't tell you 
     how much I miss having a variety of good local beer!  don't take what 
     you do have for granted!  Be sure you patronize you local 
     establishments, and that includes the local homebrew shop!
     
     Roger Ayotte  


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:34:19
From: Jerry Berry <jberry at csn.net>
Subject: Chlorine

Mike Uchima <uchima at enteract.com> says in response to Bob in Texas,
HOMEBREW Digest #3171,
>> Same question on chlorine bath... if I make the bath with relatively more 
>> chlorine can it be quicker?
>
>I'm sure there's a study that says "X percent of microbes killed in a Y
>minute boil", but I haven't seen it.
>
>More chlorine should work faster, but you may need to wear rubber
>gloves... 

And wear old glasses or goggles...  My "soft" plastic bifocals are crazed
by what my optician says is exposure to chlorine fumes.  Hard plastic
lenses are unaffected.  Query for any health science professionals out
there: "What is this doing to my sinuses if it's done that to my lenses?
Or is my optician just trying to send me away satisfied?
"I'd rather be a lamppost in Denver than the Mayor of Miami." 
(Sonny Liston, Heavyweight)


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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:47:19 -0600
From: MVachow at newman.k12.la.us
Subject: New Orleans--re-visited

Well, I'd like to stand up for my hometown as Brett Spivy does. . . .but I'm
afraid that a couple of multi-tap beer bars (some of them overrun with noisy
frat boys fixin' to puke on their shoes), a few restaurants that serve
bottled Belgian beers (enjoy 'em while they're around b/c they're a fad soon
to go the way of the cigar) and one  truly good craft brewer in town
(Acadian Brewing--IMHO) just can't compare with the way you all have it on
the coasts, and increasingly in the mid-Atlantic, the Midwest and Southwest.
If you want to look at it optimistically, I guess you can conclude that
homebrewing will probably remain essential in the Delta South to those who
desire fresh beer in traditional styles.  You just don't have that many
palatable choices unless you brew it yourself.  Here at home, I get to
feeling a bit desperate when my homebrew supply is low; whereas, when I'm
visiting friends and family in Oregon and Maine, I happily give my brewing
gear a little rest while I indulge myself in the relative bounty of fresh
Smuttynose, Otter Creek, Catamount, Deschutes, Full Sail, Widmer, et al. in
those places.  Homebrewing would become a bit more esoteric in nature for me
if I knew that I could walk around the corner (as my Portlandian sister
does) for a pint of prime condition, draught Mirror Pond.  

Mike


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