HOMEBREW Digest #3182 Tue 30 November 1999

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Cock Ale (ensmingr)
  Mn(s) (AJ)
  Forbidden Fruit? (David Sweeney)
  Brillo and SS304 Kegs (David Sweeney)
  ortho-phosphoric acid, aka 'TERMINATOR' ("Sieben, Richard")
  Iron in your water (Nathan Kanous)
  o-phosphoric acid (Nathan Kanous)
  Re: steam blows away HERMS (RobertJ)
  Brimstone BIG Ale SALE!!! ("Alan Meeker")
  George's yeast starter advice ("Alan Meeker")
  Grolsch Amber Ale ("John Watts")
  Malt mills (LaBorde, Ronald)
  yeast washing (Clifton Moore)
  HopDevil/Tuppers ("Jim Busch")
  budvar malt ("St. Patrick's")
  steam blows away HERMS?????? (Rod Prather)
  Corn meal for CAP (Randy Ricchi)
  More on Steam Injected RIMS (William Macher)
  reducing agents for beer ("Sean Richens")

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * With the addition of the Lambic Digest, the HBD now hosts NINE digests * related to this and a few other hobbies. * Send an email note to majordomo at hbd.org with the word "lists" on one * line, and "help" on another (don't need the quotes) for a listing and * instructions for use. Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 00:38:56 -0500 From: ensmingr at npac.syr.edu Subject: Cock Ale I'm interested in making a Cock Ale and, since there's not much info on this in the HBD archives, would like to hear from homebrewers who have tried this. A big concern I have is that the fowl will foul my beer. Any thoughts on this? I think Boston Brewing (Sam Adams) made a version of Cock Ale for the GABF a few years ago. Any details on their procedures? Did anyone out there taste it? For those of you unfamiliar with this "style", here is a description of a traditional recipe (see http://www.insolwwb.net/~thiel/pagethree.html ): "Take ten gallons new ale and a large cock; parboil the cock, flay him, and stamp him on a stone mortar till all bones are broke, putting cock into two quarts of sweet sack and put it to three pounds of raisins, blades of mace, many cloves, ground peppers; all these into a canvas bag... before the ale had done worked, put the ale and bag together in the vessel for nine day then bottle it up... give time to age" A modern recipe is in Cats Meow 3 (see http://brewery.org/brewery/cm3/recs/13_23.html ): "Take a few pieces of cooked chicken and a few chicken bones (approx one tenth of the edible portion of the bird) well crushed or minced. Also take half of pound of raisins, a very little mace, and one or maybe two cloves. Add all these ingredients to half a bottle of strong country white wine. Soak for 24 hrs. Then make one gallon of beer as follows: 1 lb Malt extract 1 Oz Hops 1/2 lb demerarra sugar 1 gallon water Yeast and nutrient Add the whole of the chicken mixture to the beer at the end of the second day. Fermentation will last six or seven days longer than usual and the ale should be matured at least one month in the bottle. This cock ale is of the barley wine type." Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:26:22 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Mn(s) Further to Dave B's comments on permanganate: It is widely used in the water treatment industry, both on the municipal water treatment plant and home treatment scales (the latter as described in my post of yesterday). The permanganate does indeed oxidize things in the water other than iron and manganese. That's what it's used for - in particular to attack organics in order to keep the potential for THM formation down. The end products of the reduction of permanganate are the oxides (MnO2; Mn2O3; Mn3O4) and this is controlled by keeping the process in the right part of the "pE-pH diagram" (high pH and ORP's above about -0.4 V). Thus it is unlikely that you will be picking up manganese nodules from the bottom of your fermenter. Who'd believe that old story anyway? The oxides are somewhat difficult to remove from the water. The elaborate flocculation and polish filtering operations carried out in a municipal plant are equal to the task and in the home setup, that's what the greensand is for. Remember that this is not a problem if oxidizers other than permanganate are used AND the water does not contain appreciable manganese. As to Dave's idea about raising pH to precipitate iron, manganese, calcium, magnesium, carbonate - that's spot on but don't do it with lye. Do it with lime (food grade lime is available in the canning supplies dept. of supermarkets). The usual method involves mixing a calculated amount of lime with about a third of the water to be treated. This drives the pH up to the point where magnesium hydroxide forms and precipitates. The decanted water is then titrated with the remainder of the water volume to a pH of 8.3 or so. This removes a lot of the bicarbonate (and, unfortunately) calcium with it. About a third of the magnesium is removed. My twist on the method is similar to Dave's suggestion and gets more of the bicarb and magnesium out (most of the calcium goes too but the lime supplies replacement Ca). Use lime to get the pH way up there (11 - 12) on the entire volume. After decanting you'll have water at high pH and high hydroxide alkalinity with a fair amount of Ca(OH)2 in it but most of the original calcium, magnesium, carbonate, iron, manganese etc. will have been disposed of. Now neutralize the hydroxide alkalinity with acid. There is a huge supply of free acid available out there in the air and it's harmless. Just bubble air through the water until it's hydroxide alkalinity is zeroed (pH < 8.3) and its carbonate alkalinity is at a value you can live with. Note that this can take a long time depending on how you do it. Or, if you'd like a little mouth feel in your beer (and chloride isn't high already), use some hydrochloric acid (careful with this stuff) to neutralize part or all of the hydroxide alkalinity. Done right, the bicarbonate alkalinity should be much lower than when you started. Note that sulfuric acid can also be used to neutralize leaving sulfate ion in the water. It seems unlikely that you'd want to do that since people brewing ales with high sulfate levels generally don't soften their water. What I've just described is great for decarbonating water. While I have done this procedure for decarbonation I have never tried it for iron or manganese removal (because I have neither in my water at above trace levels). Should work but remember that oxidation is still required so be sure that the water has been well aerated first. - -- A. J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:20:25 -0600 From: David Sweeney <David at stulife2.tamu.edu> Subject: Forbidden Fruit? Forgive my ignorance. But with all this talk about BT and Zymurgy, why doesn't anyone ever mention Brew Your Own (BYO)? Is this (admittedly neophyte oriented) periodical forbidden fruit for discussion or consideration? I'm not endorsing one or the other, but I look forward to getting my monthly BYO. David Sweeney Adaptive Technology Services Texas A&M University Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:28:07 -0600 From: David Sweeney <David at stulife2.tamu.edu> Subject: Brillo and SS304 Kegs I seem to remember reading somewhere that you should not use an ordinary steel wool pad to clean your 304SS brewing kegs. Although the SS304 itself won't rust, bits and pieces of the steel wool get embedded in the scratches and they will rust. Is this true? If so, why can we use Brillo pads on our pots in the kitchen? What about using a SS scrub pad? Is that safe? David Sweeney Adaptive Technology Services Texas A&M University Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:05:18 -0600 From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com> Subject: ortho-phosphoric acid, aka 'TERMINATOR' Tomas Hamann related a story of this one shot cleanse/sanitizer, but at a rate of 1tsp / 2 liters, I think that converts to about 3 tablespoons for a 5 gallon carboy. (corrrect me if I am wrong, because I am not sure, but isn't 3 tsp = 1 tblsp?) Anyway, I think this is what Star San is, but you use only 2 tablespoons for 5 gallons and it is a sanitizer only. If you have visible gunk, you still need a cleanser to get it off before a sanitizer can do it's work. Now my question on this is, is it cheaper than Star San? How much $ for what size bottle of product? Rich Sieben Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:07:48 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Iron in your water I'm impressed with how scientifically the reduction of iron in drinking water has been approached. Why not just dilute the drinking water with deionized or RO water? Seems much simpler to me. Our water in Madison is hard enough to walk on (even in the summer when it's not frozen). I buy RO water and I use that to dilute my city water to meet my needs. Much easier than using permanganate solutions and such. Consider diluting your iron. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:19:29 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: o-phosphoric acid Thomas asks about his o-phosporic acid "TERMINATOR" One-Shot yada, yada, yada. Two thoughts from my section in the peanut gallery. First, he would like to compare it to bleach. Bleach is not the best sanitizer against such lovely critters as Pediococcus (Fix, AoBT). I don't use bleach anymore.....just iodine based sanitizers and other better sanitizers. Second, I'd bet there is something other than o-phosphoric acid in this stuff, isn't there? Must be. As my brain works, I see quaternary ammonium ions as requiring some sort of organic acid (an H+ donor) to maintain their quaternary structure and function as sanitizers. I'm going to guess that this stuff may have something other than o-phosphoric acid and that "something" may be a quat. If it is, this is going to be much better than bleach, as I belive, quaternary ammonium compounds are considered to be among some of the best sanitizers out there. Now, this being said, I could be totally wrong and if anyone cares to prove me wrong, please do it in public so everybody can learn. I always recommend those pencils with large erasers so students can learn more. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:02:53 -0500 From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com> Subject: Re: steam blows away HERMS "Robert Zukosky" <mrzar at ic.net> wrote: Using a RIMS for about two years, I find my system to be problematic. I have a typical electrical heater element and March pump doing about 5+ gpm with 1/2" hard plumbing. Mash tun is a picnic cooler (56qt). .......... Solution ----- STEAM. Had I known how easy implementation of steam to my system was I would have designed it in originally. Inexpensive - 25 to 30 bucks. Too simple, too easy, fellow brewers. I now get a temp speed of 2.5F/min without and 4.0+F/min with the heater for 7.0 gal H2O. .... Robert, I think what you are saying is Steam plus RIMS, blows away RIMS, not HERMS and is faster than steam alone. As I recall, about a year ago someone else posted information on steam injection and also achieved about 2 - 2.5 deg/min temperature increases. >From what I have seen on the web most liquid to liquid heat exchange systems also heat at 2-2.5 deg/min. for 10 gal batches. Keep in mind when looking at heating rates one should also be aware of recirculating wort temperature. PBS' HERMS(tm) raises mash temp of 5.5 gal of water + 17 lbs. of grain (the weight equivalent of 7.5 gals of water) at 4 deg/min, from 120 to 150F, while keeping recirculating wort below 160F. Water alone will heat at a faster rate as will heating from 105 to 150F. I have also heated 8.75 gal of water and 26 lbs of grain (the weight equivalent of 11.75 gals of water) at 2.2 deg/min. In my opinion, the advantages of a liquid to liquid heat exchange system over others are: speed of heating, controlability and simplicity of construction and operation. Links to several different heat exchange systems can be found on our home page. Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:20:58 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Brimstone BIG Ale SALE!!! Hi All. If you are a fan of Brimstone's barleywine "BIG" and live in the Baltimore metro area then get yourself over to Well's liquors on York Rd. They are clearing out their remaining stock for only $3.99 a six-pack!! These were bottled in October 1998 and have tops dipped in hard wax. The weird thing about them is that the O.G. listed on the label is 1.058 which seems like it /has/ to be a misprint (especially after having tasted one!). Perhaps it should read 1.085? 1.158?? At any rate, it is quite tasty and you can't beat the price with a stick! Also, with the recent sale of Blueridge brewing it is questionable whether or not this particular beer will be produced much longer - Get 'em while they last! -Alan Meeker Charm City Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:29:51 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: George's yeast starter advice I'd add one point to George DePiro's advice for making up yeast starters... He says to use light malt extract to make up the starter wort so as not to overly influence the character of the beer when pitching the starter. This implies that the entire starter (spent wort and all) will be pitched into the virgin wort. He also correctly stresses the importance of getting good oxygenation/aeration during the starter's growth. Unfortunately, if you aerate the starter as you should then the starter wort will become horribly oxidized and you don't want to pitch this into your virgin beer wort! Effectively, you are making a batch of stale beer in the starter and, if you are growing up enough volume for a proper pitch (say 1/10 or so of the batch volume) then pitching this much stale starter may have a noticeable negative effect on your finished beer. Best to either settle or spin out the starter yeast prior to pitching... -Alan Meeker Baltimore MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:35:37 -0600 From: "John Watts" <watts at radiks.net> Subject: Grolsch Amber Ale I've just gotten my father-in-law (a "whatever beer is the cheapest is okay" drinker) to try a bottle of Grolsch Amber Ale. Now I'm looking for a clone recipe or at some suggestions on hops/grain bill/yeast. Hoppy Holidays! John Watts Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:55:37 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: Malt mills Everything else being equal with malt mills, I noticed one reason to go with the Maltmill verses the Valley mill. Pasted on the Maltmill is an American flag, with the text "Made in the USA" Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:29:33 -0900 From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: yeast washing I mentioned "washing yeast" in my last post, and have been asked to elaborate. The text book approach to washing yeast involves the addition of sterile water to the brewing precipitates followed by active shaking to suspend into the fluid as much of the yeast as possible. The sample is let stand for several minutes allowing the heavier debris to settle. The upper portion is poured off leaving behind as much of the sludge (proteinaceous gop mixed with hops dust) as is practical. The decanted fluid will over time settle into a yeast bed covered by water. This may be safely stored in the refrigerator until your wife complains or your room mate consumes it. When ready to use the yeast you may give it a sniff to determine if anything nasty has evolved during storage. All I can say here is, trust your instincts. You know what yeast smell like, and this is what you want. If it smells like something you would not consider putting in your wort, then do not use it. The above description assumes aggressive sanitation techniques at every stage, but it is not so hard as to make it impractical. I use quart canning jars as my collection and storage vesicles. I keep a bucket of iodiform solution handy and several bottles of sterilized water. Lids and jars are stored in the iodiform and care is taken to touch only the outer rim of the lid closures. A quick rinse with sterile water and the jar is ready to use. Whenever you pour out of any container be sure to flame the edge of the container. You want to flame all surfaces that will be exposed to your sample including drip areas. Do not heat so aggressively as to break the glass. Let the rim cool a few seconds prior to pouring cold fluid out of the jar. I have never had it happen, but I am always prepared for glass breakage, so make your transfers over a sink and have it in your mind that you are to drop any breaking glass rather than risk injury by attempting to rescue samples should your containers fail. It will not take long for you to collect a number of yeast samples so that rejection of a questionable batch will not throw your brewing schedule into disarray. I also find it comforting to use my microscope on occasions where the sample has been sitting for a number of months. I like to check viability with a methylene blue stain. Either the cell membrane of a viable cell rejects penetration by the stain, or a metabolically active cell is able to convert the stain to a non colored form. Whatever the etiology of methylene blue suffice it to say that if the yeast cell turns blue it may be counted as dead. You want most (90%) of the yeast to be big fat balls with well defined organelles. Not oddly shaped, vacuole filled gobbs. While viewing big yeast cells one should go to 400 power and look for the presence of any small black dots or rods will be a bacterial infection and should be avoided. There are methods of acid washing to selectively kill bacteria while allowing the yeast to survive, but I would advise chucking the sample in favor of such heroics. One further note. I will often use my primary fermenter as the first cleaning vessel. The trouble may come when attempting a sterile transfer out of the carboy. The rim is often a mess, so I first clean it with an alcohol swab prior to flaming. Two big dangers here. Alcohol and flames, and torching the rim of a carboy. Be smart about any of Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:03:20 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: HopDevil/Tuppers David Boyd writes: < After a year plus hiatus I am trying to find the <time to brew again. During this dry period I became hooked on two <commercial brews that are highly hopped. Tuppers Hop Pocket <Ale and another called Hop Devil. I would love to brew a <clone of these. You have good taste, both of these brews have a similar heritage, the common link being Ron Barchet, brewmaster at Dominion when Tuppers was formulated and co-founder of Victory Brewing. Of course, Tuppers was a joint effort between legendary beer hunter Bob Tupper, John Mallet and Ron. The cynic in me asks why would one need to brew a clone of these if they are readily available in the home market, focus your efforts on hard to find styles like Altbier, Wits, Dubbels pre-pro lagers, fresh doppels etc. Having said that Id be delighted to give you hints and general pointers on both beers and while you surely wont "clone" either beer you can indeed make excellent versions along the same lines at home. (I brewed all grain 5.5% versions of HopDevilish beers at home for years before my tastes moved over more to the Pils, Exports, Alts and Fests). You can also check the HBD archives, Ive given some pointers on HD before. Both beers are around 6% ABV so you want a target OG of about 16P. Both beers have a good deal of hops, aim for a good 60 BUs. Tuppers is paler than HD, so use less amber/vienna/crystal/munich malts in former. Both use American type ale yeast, 1056 is a good fit. For more complexity you might try the English strains but then you will get a beer with more fermentation character where these ales are cleaner to showcase the malt/hops. Cascades are a large part of both beers but not exclusively. Tuppers I believe uses Galena in the boil with Cascades for flavor. Dry hop with Cascades and Mt Hood. Dominion uses pellets for the boil and then dry hops with whole flower. HD is of the "4 C's" mold, Chinook, Columbus, Cascades and Centennials are all good choices. No dry hops. Victory uses all whole flower hops. For 5 gallons one may hop like this, 2 oz for 60 mins, 1/2 oz for 30, 1/2 oz for 20, 1 oz at end. (depending on alpha acids and varieties of course). Have fun, Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:45:33 -0500 From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com> Subject: budvar malt Budweiser Budvar Undermodified Malt is now available thru St. Pat's. In all sincerity, this is the most important new product for homebrewers in the past 10 years. 1) This is indeed the same malt used by Budvar to produce the original Budweiser. 2) Most significantly, this is the only UNDERMODIFIED malt available for at least the past decade. As such, this malt requires a multiple temperature mash. We unloaded the container Friday afternoon. Purely by chance, George Fix was the first to place an order. The container also had the Well-Modified Moravian malt which we have imported for 2 years now and will continue to offer. Here are some malt specs on both. Budvar specifies the barley must come not only from Hana, the region of Moravia which DeClerck cites as the origin of the world's finest malting barley, but from a small area in Hana near the town of Olomouc. Our well-modified Moravian malt is produced from barley grown in the same small area near Olomouc. Czech Malt Specifications Budvar Well-Modified Extract 80.7% 82.8% Color 3.6 EBC 3.6 EBC Kolbach 37.9 44.1 Hartong 35 -- Friability 82% --- 85% moisture 4.0% 4.6% Protein 9.9% 9.7% Please note that the Kolbach of the Budvar malt is at the upper limit of its specifications. Budvar specifies 35-38. I've bit my tongue about this for several weeks now but word leaked out. I've had numerous calls and emails especially since the GABF and I want to thank everyone including several HDB readers for staying quiet. Just a reminder, we also have the Budweiser Budvar yeast. Thank you, Lynne O'Connor St. Patrick's of Texas http://www.stpats.com St. Patrick's of Texas http://www.stpats.com Brewers Supply stpats at bga.com (e-mail) 1828 Fleischer Drive 512-989-9727 Austin, Texas 78728 512-989-8982 facsimile *********** We have Budweiser Budvar merchandise! ********************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:49:20 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: steam blows away HERMS?????? But Robert, RIMS is not a HERMS. In a HERMS you can control the heat source in a manner NEVER to exceed the denaturing temps of your enzymes. Certainly it is a design criteria, and I agree that steam is a good way of heating but HERMS doesn't have to have the problem of the electric RIMS systems. - -- Rod Prather Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 19:54:55 -0500 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> Subject: Corn meal for CAP I went to pick up some corn meal to try in a Classic American Pilsner and found that they had 2 kinds available. One was "regular corn meal", and the other was "old fashioned corn meal". They were both in bulk bins, I assume from the same company, although I don't know what company that is. The grind seemed to be about the same for both. The only difference I could see was that the "regular" was paler in color than the "old fashioned". Does anyone know the difference between the two? I'm wondering if one is degermed, and the other is not. If I recall correctly, degermed is better because it would have a lower oil content. Any advice from the collective? TIA. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:34:02 -0500 From: William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com> Subject: More on Steam Injected RIMS Hi all, "Robert Zukosky" <mrzar at ic.net> proclaims that steam blows away HERMS in HOMEBREW Digest #3181. Well, maybe...but then... I built my steam injected RIMS last January. It is a single-tier, hard copper piped, natural-gas fired system, comprised of three 15-gallon kegs, two pumps and a 30 qt. Pressure cooker that does double duty as a pressure canner for starter wort. This system was built from scratch as a steam-injected rims. It is manually controlled. I imagine it could be automated, but doing so could be expensive ans/or cumbersome if proper concern for safety is taken. At least this is the way it looks at my end. I am happy with the manual system anyway and feel no need to automate. The biggest surprise for me when I first used this system was the noise. When the steam-injection system is operating the steam implodes very quickly when injected into wort that is well below the boiling point. Even 168 F is relatively pretty cold. So although things quiet down a bit if you get the liquid you are heating up near boiling temperatures, this never happens when mashing. Actually, that was the second biggest surprise. The BIGGEST surprise was how much time I invested in building my RIMS! My original design called for 1/4 copper tubing to be run into an injection chamber made of 3/4 inch copper tubing, but I got ahead of myself and made my original injection point out of half inch tubing. This turned out to be rather noisy when the steam was being injected. I mean almost too noisy! I recently modified my piping and increased the size of the injection chamber to 3/4 inch and it seems like things quieted down a bit. Perhaps Robert <mrzar at ic.net> would share with us his experience on the noise front. My guess is that if he is injecting into the chamber that holds the electric heating element, the increased volume of liquid in this larger sized pipe [as compared to my 3/4 inch chamber size] may dampen the little implosions better than what I am using. Personally, I have considered a herms-like alternative to get rid of this noise factor, but I am leaving this for a future iteration of my system. What I might do is build a counter-flow heat exchanger to heat the wort that is re- circulating in the RIMS [and coin the term HeXrims?] using near-boiling water as the heat source. I would pump the water from the HLT as the heat source if I did this. Since I already have two pumps this would not cost me much to do. I am not certain that steam blows herms away though. Yes, both are self-limiting and neither will scorch the wort. To be as safe as possible, with steam one should have a way to dump the steam when closing the valve that feeds the injector. It is difficult to control temperature of the re-circulating wort just by varying the gas under the pressure cooker due to delays in the system. Robert may have less need to worry about this as his hybrid system probably will cut back on the electrical energy input when necessary. As a case in point let me mention that I have blown the "rocker" off the top of the pressure cooker when I closed the valve feeding the steam injector without opening the valve that dumps excess steam into my HLT first. No big deal, but you must be careful putting that little weight back on when steam is gushing out the top of the outlet it sits on. A word of warning to those considering using steam: Do not be tempted to take a short cut and use the hole for the rubber plug in the lid of the pressure cooker as the easy way to attach your steam line. Leave all the standard safety devices intact in the steam source of your choosing. Robert's idea of combining steam injection with a standard electrical-heated RIMS PID control is pretty interesting. I would note, however, for those who wish to make a simpler system, that steam injection alone, manually operated, is an alternative to the electrical complexity of the original RIMS design, and works quite well. As Robert says, steam injection is pretty simple. One thing I am pretty certain of is that steam injection will always blow away heat exchanger based systems on the noise front! I say this while contemplating the purr my pumps, as hot water and wort are pushed silently around a HeXrims accompanied by the gentle sound of my natural gas burners.. And then there is ReVrims, a reversible system that pumps backwards most of the time at a high flow rate and then conventionally for the last 15 minutes to set the filter bed...that is about two iterations away... And then there's...:-) Have fun! Bill Macher Pittsburgh PA USA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 22:17:20 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: reducing agents for beer Personally, I've always found that 3/4 cup of glucose and a pinch of yeast had enough reducing power to preserve beer for a year without refrigeration. Less sarcastically, once you've got aldehydes or worse it takes more "push" from the reducing agent than is healthy for a human body - even a really mild agent like hydroxylamide, which won't reduce aledhydes, is pretty toxic. Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 11/30/99, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96