---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Source for SS washers/Mead Digest info (jslusher)
  RIMs Solutions (Eric.Fouch)
  Anybody modify their propane burner? ("J. Doug Brown")
  Re: CO2 and Handpumps (Jeff Renner)
  I shoulda brought the damn rock with me... (Charley Burns)
  RIMS / SS Washers / Diets (Djhbrew)
  Jack Daniels locus (Jeff Renner)
  RE: grain bed temperature distribution (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: Oxygenator regulator (happydog)
  growler caps and gaskets ("Mark E. Perkins")
  grain bed temperature distribution ("scott")
  Cleaning? ("Steven J. Owens")
  Re: dispensing English "Real" Ales (Bret Morrow)
  Re: Gravity vs Plato (JohnT6020)
  Boiling yeast starter ("John Slavik")
  Chill Haze & FWH ("Michael Marshburn")
  Stuck Ferment (BsmntBrewr)


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:36:56 -0500
From: jslusher <jslusher at flash.net>
Subject: Source for SS washers/Mead Digest info

A great source for SS items (especially hardware) is McMaster-Carr Supply
Company in New Brunswick, New Jersey.  Very fast service and delivery.
There number is 732-329-3200 (Sales and Customer Service).  Their catalog
can be viewed online (you need the Adobe Acrobat Reader for this, but you
can download it from their site if you don't have it).  The web address is
http://www.mcmaster.com

Hope this helps in your quest!


John A. Slusher
E-mail: jslusher at flash.net


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:59:00 -0500
From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com
Subject: RIMs Solutions

HBD-
In response to Mr. Joy T Brews publicized opinions regarding converted Sanke
kegs, I would like to offer my opinions:

I have successfully built to RIMs vessels, a 10 gallon based on a Gott cooler,
and a 15 gallon based on a Sanke keg.  The Gott cooler consists of a 1/2" CPVC
slotted manifold for the liquid out from the mash.  With this system, I have
not had any stuck mashes, including several wit grist bills involving 40% raw
wheat, and mashing in at 154F, no protein rest.  I have been able to run the
pump at full speed with no problems.
The second system I fabricated involved obtaining a Sanke keg sold for scrap,
and having an acquaintance plasma cut the top out.  I then took the cut out
top, about 12" in diameter, crimped some brass shim stock over the dip tube
opening, and drilling as many 1/8" holes in the top as I could space at about
1/4" OC.  I ran a 3/8 copper dip tube through the center of the brass shim
stock, used it as a false bottom and once again, have had no stuck sparges, or
collapses.  Except for that one day when I took some 220 across the chest
while fooling around with the heater.  I got better.

Point is, you CAN make a cheap, sturdy RIM system out of inexpensive, legally
obtained Sanke kegs, and get it right the first time!
Rewiring the garage for 220, on the other hand may better be left to the
professionals.

On the fad diet front, once a year I purposefully become infected with the
swine flu.  I get two weeks off from work, get to lay around all day, and once
I have had my fill of Opra Winfrey and Bob Barker, I'm back to work, a svelte
25# lighter.

Back to the pickled egg thread, I have now determined I need to make my own
malt vinegar in order to keep my self in pickled eggs in the fashion to which
I have become accustomed.  Where can I obtain a good Vinegar Mother?

Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood MI

"Everything that can be invented, has been invented."

 - CHARLES DUELL, 1899-  Head of the Office of Patents



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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:11:03 +0000
From: "J. Doug Brown" <jbrown at labyrinth.net>
Subject: Anybody modify their propane burner?

Hi all,
  I am looking to up my heat output a little on my propane burner.  I
have a low pressure propane burner in a star configuration with many
holes in the top.  I was wondering if I increased the size of the gas
orafice and the holes in the burner if I could get more btu's out of the
burner.
 
  Thanks
  Doug
- -- 
		     J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV
			Sr. Software Engineer
	       jbrown at labyrinth.net     jbrown at ewa.com


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:43:35 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: CO2 and Handpumps

czsqdt at agt.gmeds.com (Doug Cook) wrote:
>Some of the solutions seem a little complicated.  All I do is set the
>regulator
>to about 5 psi, but I keep the shutoff valve in the off position.  When I want
>a beer, I turn the valve on, pull a pint, then shut the valve off, and finally
>vent the keg.  No outside air can get in, and the only time the beer sees
>"pressure" is during the pull.

Your beer engine must be different from Jason's, and what I understand most
are, because pressure over about 1 psi (it was hard to read the gauge that
low) just pushed the beer right through the pump.  You wouldn't have time
to move your hand from the gas valve to the pump handle.  With the pressure
low enough to not push the beer, CO2 didn't flow fast enough to keep from
pulling a partial vacuum, which resulted in air being sucked past the lid
O-ring.  Hence the complicated suggestions.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 06:40:17 -0800
From: Charley Burns <cburns99 at pacbell.net>
Subject: I shoulda brought the damn rock with me...

I moved. I used to have the perfect brewing setup. Now I have a 5 foot by 15
foot patio which is the same size as my back yard. In fact it _is_ the back
yard (and the side yard too). I moved into a condo half the size of my old
home. Long story and thankfully this is temporary, at most a year.

So anyway, about a year and a half ago, I started using cut down kegs for
kettle and hot liquortank. I fashioned a hopback of sorts out of stainless
mesh which fits down in the bottom of my kettle. I switched to all whole hops
and never looked back. But, the first time I used the screen, when the boil
started, the screen floated up and was completely useless in keeping the hops
from plugging up the outlet valve. So I asked Dave Sapsis (hi dave, long time
no see, happy holidays), who has a similar setup, how he keeps the screen in
place. Rocks. Too simple. Get a couple of rocks and set them on top of
thescreen says Dave, the most dangerous and pragmatic brewer I know.

So I got me a nice smooth river rock, about 2 lbs, cleaned it up, boiled it
and used it for the last year and a half. Well, when I moved, I said to
myself, "self, why carry an extra two pounds of rock,when you can just pick
one up at the new place?". So I left it.Today I inaugurated my new brewery.
Man is it crowded and a pain. Found a rock but it had paint on it. Found
another but it was covered with spray on stucco. Finally found a nice smooth
one and decided to go ahead and boil it after cleaning. I brushed it off,
stuck it in a spare kettle and left it for 45 minutes (boiled about half
hour). Went to pull the hot rock out of the kettle withsome tongs and the
damn rock started coming apart. I was able to scrape the rock and it would
crumble.

I finished the brew by jamming the chiller coil between the screen and the
protruding thermocouple inside the kettle. Ended up just racking the wort
into the carboy, wasn't even going to try the pump(I knew it would get
plugged up). So its not a total loss. Nice Robust porter  at  1.070 OG.

Only time will tell if the water is any good around here. I boiled 10 gallons
of it the day before trying to get the chlorine stink out of it. Gotta get a
water filter soon.

Moral of the story, don't leave your rocks lying around, take 'em with ya,
wherever you go.

Charley, brewing again, now in Fair Oaks CA, about 2500 miles west of the
center of the brewin guniverse (according to JR).


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:37:10 EST
From: Djhbrew at aol.com
Subject: RIMS / SS Washers / Diets

I am near the end of my design stage of my RIMS and have most of the material 
needed to construct it. I am always open to designs and information that 
would make my RIMS operate more efficient.  I am very interested in any 
schematics that could be provide.

For the SS washers try marine supply stores, Lowes Hardware, Menards Hardware 
or aircraft supply stores.

As for diets go to a different digest this is HOMEBREWING.

Thank You,
Darryl Jon Hickey

Miami Area Society of Homebrewers <A HREF="http://www.hbd.org/mash">Miami 
Homebrewers</A> 


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:34:32 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Jack Daniels locus

Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> wrote:

>A long time ago, I visited the Jack Daniels distillery.  The tour
>guide told us that the county (Boone?)

It's actually in Moore County, formerly part of Lincoln County, origin of
the eponymous "Lincoln County Process" of filtering raw distillate through
maple charcoal before aging (sometimes after as well), which distinguishes
Tennessee whiskey (by law) from bourbon.

I suggest those interested in tasting a particularly fine example of
Tennessee whisk(e)y eschew the ubiquitous JD and try George Dickel No. 12.

A sidelight - Bourbon County, Kentucky, used to encompass most of Kentucky.
It was part of Virginia before Kentucky gained statehood in 1792, and was
created in 1786 from part of Virginia's Fayette County.  At about this
time, whiskey from Kentucky began to be shipped downriver to St. Louis and
New Orleans.  It wasn't yet modern bourbon whiskey in style (aging in
charred oak barrels was necessary for that, among other things), but its
quality began to make it a product distinguished from other whiskies and
asked for by name.  Bourbon County was subsequently split into many
counties and now has no (legal) distilleries.

If the topic of spirits interests you, you may want to subscribe to
Distilled Beverage Digest (DBD).  To subscribe, send the word "subscribe",
without the quotes, to dbd-request@hbd.org.

Jeff

PS - not often you get a chance to work "eponymous," "eschew" and
"ubiquitous" all into one post.

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:31:12 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: grain bed temperature distribution

From: "Timmons, Frank" <Frank.Timmons at AlliedSignal.com>

>...I was shocked at the temperature differentials in the
>grain bed, which were up to 14 degrees F (142 -156 F, with the HLT temp
>170F), depending on where I was around the bed, even when just
recirculating
>with no heat addition...

This is what I have suspected all along.  I think that circulating could
cause channeling quite easily.
	
>...1) Is this a big problem, or do the various
>enzyme reactions all "even out" to make everything ok?...

You said your beer was good, so this is not a big problem for you, but a
problem still.   It would pay off to continue refining your system.  I know
I am still in there trying.

>...2) Should I try to
>stir the grain bed while running the pump and adding heat to even things
>out...

Well, I have just one data point.  I tried an experiment last week.  I used
a 1/2 inch ID copper wand with a flattened end at 90 degrees as the wort
delivery device into the mash.  I placed it into the mash resting at the
bottom on the mash screen.  I could easily move it around and I did, I used
it to stir, and it also caused a lot of mash motion because of the jet
action at the flattened output end.

At first, the circulation was great, the jet really shooting out the end.
After I started stirring and after a few minutes, the circulation slowed to
a near standstill.  So I stopped the pump, stirred up with my spoon, then
started the pump again at a lesser circulation rate.  This went along well,
the temperature was even throughout the mash, and I got an unexpectedly high
efficiency.   I used 13.5 pounds of malt for a final boil down OG of 1074.
Much higher than I normally get.

I plan to go to a rectangular cooler with slotted pipe mash system, which I
hope will give me a high flow rate without grain bed compaction.  I am still
testing the wand idea, but it shows promise.

Ron

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:49:02 GMT
From: happydog at nations.net
Subject: RE: Oxygenator regulator

>Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:09:51 -0500
>From: "Mr. Joy Hansen" <joytbrew at patriot.net>
>Subject: Oxygenator regulator

>One is a concentrator <snip>
>The other supply is a small portable oxygen breather tank.  Each has a
>regulator and three hours of oxygen exhausted at 3 liters/minute.  Seems
>like it would be sufficient for a life time of home brewing?  Leasing these
>refillable tanks with regulator from a medical supply house like "Roberts"
>might be a practical solution for some.

The only problem with this is that both require a prescription from an
MD in every state that I have ever worked in as an ICU RN.
(Calf. MO. & SC) and I am 99% sure that holds true in all states.

Wil Kolb RN
Happy Dog Brewing Supplies
Mt Pleasant SC
wil at maltydog.com
happydog at nations.net





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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:57:36 -0500
From: "Mark E. Perkins" <perkinsm at bway.net>
Subject: growler caps and gaskets

Does anyone have a source for replacement caps and gaskets (esp.
gaskets) for 1/2 gal. growlers?

TIA,


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:51:18 -0800
From: "scott" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com>
Subject: grain bed temperature distribution

Frank,

I have just finished my first season with the EXACT same system you
describe.  I have found that occasional stirring is adequate to help with
temperature stabilization.  I ran across this when in spring, I was brewing
and found my mash temperature dropping..  At the same time, I was
recirculating, thinking I was heating up the mash contents.  In reality, I
was heating the mash.  However, with a little stirring, the hotter liquid
found the temperature probe, and the thermometer stabilized where I thought
it should be.

So, I am fairly vigilant about stirring.  I also went to 10 gallon batches.
Since I have a sankey keg for a tun, it just works better.  Even in cold
weather, if I have a lid, the temperature, once warm, holds forever at that
temp.  I also use that bubble reflective insulation on the sides.

Sounds like you do like me and just point the previously heated wort inlet
tubing into the tun.  I reposition it frequently (probably just anal about
it).  My thinking is if I don't, will suffer more temperature disparity in
the mash.  I follow this with a good stir (making sure not to upset the
grainbed).

A couple things others have done to minimize temperature disparity:

1.  Something to spread the returning  liquid over a larger area of mash.
Copper manifold and pie pan are some examples.

2.  electric motor driven stirrer for the mash.

Good luck.
 Scott
Richland, Wa.

Greetings!

I have a mashing question for the group. I do (mostly) single and
multi-step infusion mashes with a HERMS system of my own design, in which I
pump liquid wort from the bottom of the grain bed, through a copper coil
that is immersed in the HLT to heat it up. The return is  3/8" vinyl tubing,
set just below the top of the grain. I have been using it for two years now
and am happy with it, and think I brew some pretty good beer. I have been
struggling with temperature control of the grain bed for some time, however.
The control is manual. I monitor the temperature with a fixed dial
thermometer set at the middle of the bed, and I use ball valves to control
flow through the coil.

This past weekend, while brewing a 10 gallon batch, I used a digital
thermometer (correctly calibrated) I borrowed from work to try to get better
data to work with. I was shocked at the temperature differentials in the
grain bed, which were up to 14 degrees F (142 -156 F, with the HLT temp
170F), depending on where I was around the bed, even when just recirculating
with no heat addition (I allowed 10 minutes of this to allow the temps to
stabilize).

I have two questions: 1) Is this a big problem, or do the various
enzyme reactions all "even out" to make everything ok? 2) Should I try to
stir the grain bed while running the pump and adding heat to even things
out, even though this seems to me to be extra work that I would like to
avoid? Not having to mess with stirring was a big reason for building the
recirc system.

I am going to make a better distribution header/nozzle thing for the
wort return, figuring that will help, but any other advice is appreciated.

Frank Timmons
James River Homebrewers




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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:24:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff at netcom.com>
Subject: Cleaning?

Folks,

     Thanks to the many people who sent me advice on "Scaling up"; if
anybody wants a summary of the responses, drop me a line.

     In some followup conversations, I realized that a big part of my
concern is ease of cleaning.  Some of those setups, with the huge pots
and the screens in the bottoms of the pots, do *not* look easy to
clean.  I have a tough enough time cleaning my relatively small pot
today.

     The first big win is going to 5 gallon cornelius kegs instead of
bottles (though I still want to bottle on occasion).  The kegs are bit
unwieldly, but a lot simpler and faster to clean.  A friend suggested
building my larger brewing setup inside, effectively, a big shower
stall, so I could hose it down.  Does anybody have any tips on making
the cleaning easier?

Steven J. Owens


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:37:39 -0400
From: Bret Morrow <bret.morrow at yale.edu>
Subject: Re: dispensing English "Real" Ales

Greetings,

All the talk about low pressure dispensing of "real" ales seems to focus
on relatively high tech solutions to recreate very old technology.
There is, I believe, a much simpler solution.  The late, great Dave Line
suggested putting the finished beer, along with priming sugar and some
hops, if you like, in a 5 gall. collapsible plastic "carboy"--similar to
the kind the Boy Scouts carry water in (see your camping supply store).
The carboy is placed in a cool (English cellar temp) place like the coal
scuttle under the stairs but close to the telly (at least at Dave Line's
house).  You would have to keep an eye on the carboy and drink some as
it swells up (what a shame!).  The goal is to drink it at the same rate
that the priming sugar ferments.  The real shame is that you really
couldn't drink it too fast or you will end up with really flat beer
(even for an Englishman).

One draw back for many here, is that it does not take several hundreds
of dollars, 30 or 40 hours of engineering, and 200+ hours of
construction.  Sorry.  But if you really wanted to you could probably
get some oil and make the plastic yourself!

Keeping it simple,

Bret Morrow,
Hamden, CT


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:00:41 EST
From: JohnT6020 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Gravity vs Plato

Flossmoor  IL 99-12-21  at  1138 CST

Fellow Brewers:

AJ included his system of calculating brewing efficiency in today's post.  It 
seems to me we should have some sort of "standard method" that we all use but 
this is not always easily discernible from a brewer's post.

Maltsters usually give an extract percentage based on some combination of 
coarse and fine grind lab yield . . . or give both FG and CG and let you 
figure it out.  Most [?] of us use gravity in our calculations.  I have a 
table to convert Plato to gravity but would like to have a formula.  Do you 
have one handy or a reference?

IMHO we should give our efficiencies in terms of potential yield rather than 
gross grist weight.

73,
JET


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:06:05 -0800
From: "John Slavik" <brewer1 at airmail.net>
Subject: Boiling yeast starter

Thank you for all the replies I received concerning boiling my yeast
starter, in a "Pyrex" Erlenmeyer flask, on my electric range.  I also gave
an incorrect link to my SC-RIMS Homebrewery in Digest #3200.  The link
should be http://web2.airmail.net/brewer1/ .

John Slavik
DeSoto, TX



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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:57:19 -0500
From: "Michael Marshburn" <mike48 at rcn.com>
Subject: Chill Haze & FWH

Greeting All

I have been following the first wort hopping discussion with a lot of interest,
I tried it on an ESB made about a month ago. I also used the Czech Moravian
malts from St Pats and a single 151F mash for 75 mins. The beer turned out
great, but has a chill haze that none of my other beers using the same mash
schedule has had.
Recipe
5lbs pilsner
4lbs vienna
1lb caravienne 10L
1.5oz Liberty 3.2AA FWH removed before boiling
1oz EK Golding 5.2AA 60 mins
 .5oz EK Goldings 30 mins
 .5 EK Goldings dry hop
Wyeast 1007 from .5gal starter.
75 mins 151F, boiling water to 168F, recirc to clear, drain tun, add 3.5 gal
170F stir well, rest 15 mins recirc to clear, drain tun. FWH in the boil vessel
when wort covered the bottom, wort kept 160-70F with heat when needed, sparge
about 60 mins. 5 gal of large hop flavor, lingering, but not excessive
bitterness overall good beer into the keg. OG1.054 FG 1.012. The question I have
is about the chill haze. Could the FWH hops be the culprit or the mash schedule?
I was given to understand the malts were modern highly modified and I did a
iodine check and got no reaction. The beer is very good and I don't mind the
haze, but I would like to refine my technique for cosmetics or maybe there is
something missing.
Thanks
Mike M       Virginia Beach, Va


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 23:23:03 EST
From: BsmntBrewr at aol.com
Subject: Stuck Ferment

Brewers,

Had my first stuck fermentation.  Used Danstar Windsor.  Recipe was for an 
all grain, single infusion Rock Creek Black Raven Porter clone. (specs on 
Black Raven  http://hbd.org/starcity/descriptions.html#e)  After two weeks at 
just over 1020 I decided to pitch a rehydrated packet of Pasteur Champagne 
yeast.  After just about ten minutes the airlock had bubbles every few 
seconds.  I figured I had just disturbed the CO2 in solution and it was 
working its way out.  After about two hours I'm getting bubbles in the 
airlock every seven seconds.  I had hoped for some activity but did not 
expect this much this soon from a single packet of rehydrated yeast.

Is this a common occurrence?  Am I actually seeing renewed fermentation or is 
there another explanation?

Bob Bratcher
Roanoke, VA
Star City Brewers Guild
http://hbd.org/starcity
http://members.aol.com/bsmntbrewr


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---