---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Yeast Profiles (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  RE: source for SS washers? (Susan/Bill Freeman)
  mash tannins ("Micah Millspaw")
  Tannins/Efficiency (AJ)
  CO2 and Handpumps (Doug Cook)
  RE: Controlling Fermentation Temperature ("J. Doug Brown")
  Re: US state beer laws (Jeff Renner)
  Re: source for SS washers? (Jeff Renner)
  Fermentable Content of Candi Sugar (Harold Dowda)
  2nd Annual Palmetto State Brewers Competition (Harold Dowda)
  Oxygenator regulator ("Mr. Joy Hansen")
  RIMS false bottom ("Mr. Joy Hansen")
  grain bed temperature distribution ("Timmons, Frank")
  oxynater regulater (Tombrau)
  US state alcohol laws (Spencer W Thomas)
  RE: source for SS washers? ("Dana H. Edgell")
  Samson's Crystal Pilsener (Greg Remake)
  Boiling yeast starter ("John Slavik")
  GBBF 2000 ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  RE: Meads ("Frank J. Russo")


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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:41:49 -0800 (PST)
From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Profiles

Subject: Re: Yeast Profiles

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:34:10 EST Headduck at aol.com asked:

>Is there a comparative list somewhere that shows what Wyeast yeasts
>correspond to what to what White Labs yeasts.  For example is White
Labs WLP
>001, California Ale Yeast and Wyeast 1056 American Ale the same
strain?

Hi, I got tired of searching for all my yeast profiles and put
together a page a while back... 

http://www.brewrats.org/yeast.cfm

Give it a look and see if it helps. 

C'ya!

 -Scott




=====
ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT
Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net>
http://www.skotrat.com (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page)

"The More I know about beer politics, The more I wish I made 120k"
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.


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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 00:21:38 -0600
From: Susan/Bill Freeman <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: source for SS washers?

Try a shop or store that specializes in bolts and fasteners. (see yellow
pages) They often have SS stuffs they will sell in smaller quantities.
I have found odd sized bolts and washers here.
Cheers,  Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat


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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 06:48:56 -0600
From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa at SILGANMFG.COM>
Subject: mash tannins

I think that this topic falls into the category of 'mommily'. Tannins 
from the mash is something I often heard poeple say. 
 It is very difficult to extract tannins from the grain hulls in a mash. 
In fact I'm not sure that I've ever see it done. The ph of the mash is 
the limiter. It is however quite possible to extract tannins from hops 
(much more soluble than husk tannins) in the boil and possibly if they 
were put in the mash as well.

Micah Millspaw - brewer at large
- ------------------------------

>From: "Dean Fikar" <dfikar at flash.net>
>
>A couple of posters mention that direct injection of steam into the mash 
is
>bad because you might heat
>portions of the mash enough to extract tannins.  I don't agree.  After 
all,
>when you decoct a portion of
>the mash you're doing the same thing but to an even greater extent.  I 
did
>not notice any astringency
>with any of my steam-injected beers,

>Re: More steam (RobertJ)
>
>_____
>When you decoct you're taking only the thickest part of the mash and 
have a
>low liquid to grain ration.
>
>Tanin is extracted in a high liquid to grain ratio causing astringency.
>

>I've not heard this explanation before.  Can anyone else verify?  I 
always
>thought that it was the low mash pH that kept tannins from being 
extracted
>when boiling a decoction.  I also don't understand why a relatively 
small
>change in mash thickness would have any bearing on whether tannins are
>extracted.  My typical "thick" decoction is about 0.8 to1.0 qt./lb. 
vs.
>about 1.0 to 1.33 qts./lb. for a typical steam injected mash.  Can any
>chemist enlighten me here?



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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:55:23 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Tannins/Efficiency

Dean asks about why a high liquid to grist ratio would improve
dissolution of tannins. Lots of liquid improves the dissolution of
anything. A teaspoon of sugar will dissolve faster in a gallon of water
than it will in a cup. Other factors are, of course, temperature and pH
(talking of tannins now).

After my musing of the previous post I did recheck the two lagers I
still have in the freezer. In once case the polyphenols actually went up
some (298 to 396) which is most interesting as this beer (a fest) has
developed a hot, smokey taste as it ages. Wild yeast?  The other, a
pilsner, read about 1000 mg/L and has, after 6 months lagering, fallen
back to about 400. It is noticeably smoother now.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

For DawgDoctor:

Your collected specific gravity of 1.042 corresponds to 10.47P which
implies that your wort contains 0.91 pounds of extract per gallon. Seven
gallons of extract gives you a total of 6.37 pounds and as you used a
total of 11.5 pounds of grain that's 6.37/11.5 = 0.554 or 55.4%
efficiency which isn't that great but considering that 30% of your grist
is stuff that doesn't yield that much perhaps it isn't too surprising.
I have only used Maris Otter once and got a very disappointing 62%
kettle efficiency from it (whereas DWC Pale Ale malt usually gives me a
little over 70%). I attributed this to my lack of experience with it.
The berries are much smaller than those of the DWC and I did not reset
my mill to account for this - didn't even notice it till I saw the
extraction I had acheived.

Note that I'm using the ratio of weight of extract to weight of grain as
the definition of efficiency. There are other schemes out there in which
you are told that Maris Otter, for example, should give you, say, 30
points per pound per gallon. If you realize 28 then you call the
efficiency 28/30 = 93.3%. I haven't seen anyone use this system recently
but always suspect it is being used when I see claims of 80% and higher.

- --
A. J. deLange
Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.



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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:03:01 -0500 (EST)
From: czsqdt at agt.gmeds.com (Doug Cook)
Subject: CO2 and Handpumps


Some of the solutions seem a little complicated.  All I do is set the regulator
to about 5 psi, but I keep the shutoff valve in the off position.  When I want
a beer, I turn the valve on, pull a pint, then shut the valve off, and finally
vent the keg.  No outside air can get in, and the only time the beer sees 
"pressure" is during the pull.  



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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:07:42 +0000
From: "J. Doug Brown" <jbrown at labyrinth.net>
Subject: RE: Controlling Fermentation Temperature

I built a brew closet using the principles in the "Son of Fermentation
Chiller" by Ken Schwartz.  My closet can be seen at
http://www.labs.net/jbrown/Doug/Brew/closet.htm and there is also a link
to Ken Schwartz "Son of Fermentation Chiller" plans and description. 
This setup works well for me as my fermentation takes place in my garage
that regularly gets in the upper 80F range during the summer.

  Doug Brown
- --
		     J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV
			Sr. Software Engineer
	       jbrown at labyrinth.net     jbrown at ewa.com


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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:20:27 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: US state beer laws

>Famous story: Bourbon County, TN, is dry.

And what's more, it's in Kentucky.  ;-)

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:20:49 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: source for SS washers?

>home depot does not have ss washers this large.

Another reason to support your local hardware store!  (And locally owned,
independent bookstore as well. while you're at it, for similar reasons).

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: 20 Dec 99 10:23:49 EST
From: Harold Dowda <hdowda at netscape.net>
Subject: Fermentable Content of Candi Sugar

What is the fermentable content of candi?  Have heard it was about 25% of
 the
crystal weight.  Also what is its actual color contribution.  The color
contributed by a pound of 250 SRM candi is nothing at all like the 
equivalent
contribution of say a pound of chocolate.

Dumb question.  Color in degrees Lovibond = color SRM = 0.5 EBC (for 
practical
purposes?

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at 

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Date: 20 Dec 99 10:26:11 EST
From: Harold Dowda <hdowda at netscape.net>
Subject: 2nd Annual Palmetto State Brewers Competition

We survived the 1st Annual and are gluttons for more.  Our event will be 
April
8th.  More info later.

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at 

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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:09:51 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy Hansen" <joytbrew at patriot.net>
Subject: Oxygenator regulator

Hi All,

A family member uses two devices for supplemental oxygen.  One is a
concentrator that produces enriched oxygen air at low pressure.  It could be
nearly pure oxygen.  The costly unit might be available as low cost salvage
equipment?

The other supply is a small portable oxygen breather tank.  Each has a
regulator and three hours of oxygen exhausted at 3 liters/minute.  Seems
like it would be sufficient for a life time of home brewing?  Leasing these
refillable tanks with regulator from a medical supply house like "Roberts"
might be a practical solution for some.

                                         Joy"T"Brew


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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 11:52:55 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy Hansen" <joytbrew at patriot.net>
Subject: RIMS false bottom

Hi,

This post is intended for brewers interested in using converted Sanke like
kegs for mash/lauter tuns in a RIMS like system.  Just for the record, the
following is my opinion.  Thus, I don't consider use of converted Sanke kegs
as boil pots or mash/lauter tuns to be inexpensive or appropriate for RIMS
like systems.  With a properly selection of SS vessels, stirring mechanisms
and critically designed false bottoms would be moot.

Acceptable false bottoms are dependant on the design of the system.  For
some, a short section of SS screen formed into a tube might be perfect.  For
others, a slotted plastic or copper pipe might be adequate.  The important
consideration that seems to be missing in most discussions is the amount of
the malt charge vrs. the open area of the false bottom.  The achieves might
be replete with discussions of false bottom open area.  The rectangular
picnic cooler could have near 200 inches of open area when used for a RIMS
like system.  A typical Sanke keg false bottom has less than 100 square
inches of open area.

My experience is that recirculation changed most everything developed for
picnic cooler like gravity fed mash/lauter false bottoms.  Recirculation
requires massive false bottom open area.  The usual high flow through the
mash and the limited open area promotes a stuck mash!  Modern magnetic drive
pumps are very strong pumpers and can develop static pressure high enough to
boil liquid at normal saccharification and mash out temperatures.

As a historical false bottom loser, I must protest the use of stand off type
false bottoms for RIMS applications in conjunction with a Sanke keg
conversion.  Take it from me that I tried most every design I could think
of.  Fine SS screen, 10X10 monster SS screen, drilled SS sheet, etc.  I
tried substantial bracing under the post supported false bottom where the
support looked more like a many spoke wagon wheel than a false bottom - all
collapsed under hydrostatic pressure of the pump.  Hours of manual stirring
or transferring 25 pounds of mash and 8 gallons of liquid to a direct fired
mash tun ain't my idea of a pleasant brew day!

Eventually, I took the advice of a brewing mentor and purchased the
Precision Brewing Systems false bottom from Brew America in Arlington, VA.
This punched hole SS plate is stamped and cut to accurately fit the bottom
of a Sanke keg.  Thus, the edge is inherently strong due to the shape of the
stamping and it's thickness.  I added a center support that made the false
bottom capable of with standing the static pressure force if the mash
becomes stuck.  Which can happen when there isn't adequate stirring to clear
the false bottom while maintaining full flow through the system.  A great
representation of what I'm advocating is currently illustrated in the
Advanced Brewing Technology advertisements in Zymurgy.  There, you see the
false bottom and clearly the pipe union center support.  You'll note also
that the mixing paddle is shaped to fit the false bottom.  ABT might sell
just the false bottom.  I can't emphasize enough the necessity of
maintaining the liquid flow at the maximum that the system plumbing allows
when the heat exchanger is ON.  Low flow rate promotes scorching of the
carbohydrate on a heating element it is exponential.  A small amount of
scorching (carbon) insulates the element and allows a hot spot to develop.
Then, the hot spot picks up more stuff to carbonize.  Eventually large
sections of the heating element are covered with burned wort.  The brew will
always have the scorched wort flavor!  Unless a brewer designs a mash tun
with an open area of more than 200 square inches for 15 to 20 pounds of
malt, some type of manual or mechanized stirring is essential to allow full
flow at all times the heat is ON.

My system has a better design than most because my supply enters the bottom
of the tun and is exhausted into the mash through a motor driven copper pipe
mixing shaft.  The return comes from under the false bottom.  This give me
optimized mixing, rapid ramps between rests, small temperature range through
the mash, and a reduced potential for hot side aeration.  I'm questionably
able to provide pictures and a schematic of my RIMS like mash/lauter tun to
interested brewers.  My system isn't the best, worst, or the only a workable
single level system.  I do know that it works and has overcome most of the
failures encountered over nearly 10 years of RIMS use.

SHOULD NEW BREWERS FORGET THE USE OF CONVERTED SANKE KEGS AND SPEND THE
BUCKS FOR PROPER POTS?

MOST CERTAINLY!

                                         Joy"T"Brew



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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:37:07 -0700
From: "Timmons, Frank" <Frank.Timmons at AlliedSignal.com>
Subject: grain bed temperature distribution

Greetings!

	I have a mashing question for the group. I do (mostly) single and
multi-step infusion mashes with a HERMS system of my own design, in which I
pump liquid wort from the bottom of the grain bed, through a copper coil
that is immersed in the HLT to heat it up. The return is  3/8" vinyl tubing,
set just below the top of the grain. I have been using it for two years now
and am happy with it, and think I brew some pretty good beer. I have been
struggling with temperature control of the grain bed for some time, however.
The control is manual. I monitor the temperature with a fixed dial
thermometer set at the middle of the bed, and I use ball valves to control
flow through the coil.  
	
	This past weekend, while brewing a 10 gallon batch, I used a digital
thermometer (correctly calibrated) I borrowed from work to try to get better
data to work with. I was shocked at the temperature differentials in the
grain bed, which were up to 14 degrees F (142 -156 F, with the HLT temp
170F), depending on where I was around the bed, even when just recirculating
with no heat addition (I allowed 10 minutes of this to allow the temps to
stabilize). 
	
	I have two questions: 1) Is this a big problem, or do the various
enzyme reactions all "even out" to make everything ok? 2) Should I try to
stir the grain bed while running the pump and adding heat to even things
out, even though this seems to me to be extra work that I would like to
avoid? Not having to mess with stirring was a big reason for building the
recirc system.

	I am going to make a better distribution header/nozzle thing for the
wort return, figuring that will help, but any other advice is appreciated.

Frank Timmons
James River Homebrewers


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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:46:39 EST
From: Tombrau at aol.com
Subject: oxynater regulater

brian dixon writes:


the oxynater regulator is a regulator
not a valve
to prove this i can tell you
i use an old oxynater tank and regulater 
to dispense beer from a 3 g keg
i fill the o2 tank with 160psi of co2
(purged of course)
the regulator adjusts for  a perfect flow rate
and does not simply dump 160psi on the keg
cheers


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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:07:04 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: US state alcohol laws 

A long time ago, I visited the Jack Daniels distillery.  The tour
guide told us that the county (Boone?) in which the distillery is
located is dry.  Furthermore, he related, the population of the county
was not large enough to vote the county wet -- even if all the voters
voted in favor of "wet" status, it would not exceed a minimum set in
the TN state law.

Well, when Bob Devine posted to the HBD a URL for state alcohol
regulations (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uniform/vol9.html#consb), I
decided to check out the situation.  The URL (broken into
several lines to keep the HBD software happy) 
    http://www.lexislawpublishing.com/sdCGI-BIN/om_isapi.dll?
      clientID=1257&hitsperheading=on&infobase=tncode.NFO&
      record={2F809}&softpage=Document
contains the rules for the "local option" elections.  It appears that
the guide's story was not strictly true, but there are enough weird
restrictions in the law that I think it probably was true in spirit.
Check out some of this wording:

    In those counties wherein are located municipalities which have a
    population equal to or greater than the smallest county in Tennessee
    by the federal census of 1960 or by any succeeding federal census, or
    any municipality having a population of one thousand seven hundred
    (1,700) or more persons according to the 1960 federal census in which
    at least fifty percent (50%) of assessed valuation of the real estate
    in the municipality consists of hotels, motels, and tourist courts and
    accommodations, as shown by the tax assessment rolls or books of the
    municipality, ...

How many counties do you suppose that applied to when the law was
passed?  Anyone want to bet on "ONE"? :-)

Here's another one:

        Except in counties having populations of:  


            not less than       nor more than
            ------------        -------------
                12,100             12,200
                23,500             24,000
                65,000             70,000

        according to the 1970 federal census or any subsequent
        federal census, the voters of any municipality in this state
        which has been incorporated under a general or special law
        or laws of this state for five (5) years or longer and which
        has a population of nine hundred twenty-five (925) or more
        persons according to the federal census of 1970 or any
        subsequent federal census, except in municipalities with a
        population of not less than one thousand two hundred thirty
        (1,230) nor more than one thousand two hundred fifty (1,250)
        according to the 1970 federal census or any subsequent
        federal census, in any county having a population of not
        less than thirteen thousand five hundred (13,500) nor more
        than thirteen thousand six hundred (13,600) according to the
        1970 federal census or any subsequent federal
        census, ...

Can you say "special cases"?  I thought you could...  



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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:48:00 -0700
From: "Dana H. Edgell" <EdgeAle at cs.com>
Subject: RE: source for SS washers?


Patrick Finerty asks about Stainlees and teflon washers.

>i need to purchase a couple of SS washers for the ball valve i'll be
>installing in my brewing kettle. i'm going with a 1/2 in OD valve and
>have seen 13/16 in (ID) washers on McMaster-Carr but they sell them in
>packs of 25; i only need two to four.
>
>home depot does not have ss washers this large. if anyone has another
>place i can look, i'd appreciate it. also, i'm going to be buying
>teflon washers from McMaster-Carr but if you know of a store carrying
>these, that would be great.

While Home Depot can have good prices and a lot of large stuff, when it
comes to many things like washers a plain old hardware store usually has a
better variety. Look for a good larger hardware store (I use Marshall's
Industrial Hardware in San Diego) for all kinds of stainless steel washers,
nuts, bolts etc.

As for teflon washers, I went to a local plastics supplier that carried
teflon sheets (call ahead) I bought a single square foot from the scrap bin
and basically have a lifetime supply. I cut my own washers out of the sheet
to the size I needed.

Dana Edgell

- --------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Dana Edgell
Staff Scientist               mailto:edgell at far-tech.com
FARTECH, Inc.                 (858) 455-6655
P.O.Box 221053                (858) 450-9741 fax
San Diego, CA  92192-1053



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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:17:37 -0600
From: Greg Remake <gremake at gsbalum.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Samson's Crystal Pilsener

Hello all,

I purchased my first bottle of Samson Brewery's Crystal Pilsener this
weekend, and absolutely loved it.  Before this bottle, Pilsener Urquell
porvided my only other example of true Czech Pilseners.  I found Crystal to
be a bit drier than P.U., more like a German Pils, and it had a spicey
character I really enjoyed.

Has anyone had any success trying to brew a version of this beer, and if
so, would you kindly share your recipe and process?  Perhaps Dr. Pivo could
provide some helpful advice, as this seems to be an area with which he is
very familiar.  Can I come close without using Czech malt?  Right now my
plan is to double decoct a German Pilsener malt mash (OG 1.052), using a
40C/60C/70C temperature profile, with 40 IBUs from Czech Saaz flowers, and
Wyeast Czech Pils yeast in a one-gallon starter.  

Cheers,



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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:04:38 -0800
From: "John Slavik" <brewer1 at airmail.net>
Subject: Boiling yeast starter

Made a yeast starter today, WYEAST Bavarian Wheat #3056.  Made the first
step to 500mL in a 1000mL Erlenmeyer flask.  Instead of boiling outside on
my 35K Camp
Chef cooker I boiled inside on the electric range.  My question, is it safe
to place the flask directly on the electric element or did I just get lucky
today.  Thanks for all public and private responses.

John Slavik
DeSoto, TX

visit my SC-RIMS Homebrewing page:  http://web2.airmail.net/berwer1


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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:25:42 +1000
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: GBBF 2000


Has anyone been to the Great British Beer Festival? We are intending to be
at the 2000 show, has anyone worked there as a volunteer? What did you do
for accommodation? We aint the wealthiest!

Many thanks in advance, Thomas.
THOMAS D. HAMANN
Photographer, Brewer and Tenor!
Box 53 Hahndorf  5245 
South Australia
AUSTRALIA   (still a dopey constitutional monarchy)
Telephone  +61 8 8388 7780


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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:13:36 -0500
From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com>
Subject: RE: Meads

Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewry
Pottstown,PA

Asked about mint meads.  Bob, best to direct your questions to the mead
digest;

>>>>>Digest only appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead at talisman.com.
Use mead-request@ talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.  When
    subscribing, please include name and email address in body of message.
Digest archives and FAQ are available for anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu
    in pub/clubs/homebrew/mead.<<<<<<<<<<<

Frank
Havelock, NC
"There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."


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---