---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Mixing with tines (Yorg)
  question: spicey flavor to Munich Lager? (darrell.leavitt)
  Hygrometer Calibration ("Jack Schmidling")
  re: Wacky wisdon, and a toast. (The Holders)
  re: Belgian Doppel Maturity ("Parker, Mike")
  Yeast Culturing (Jacob Bogie)
  Hefe question and GM ("scott")
  Valley Mill Motorization ("John A. Slusher")
  Rehydration, Luddites and GM (Dave Burley)
  CO2 Tank ("Steve Blanchard")
  Wyeast #1084 (John Herman)
  new group for making Sauerkraut ("Alan McKay")
  GMO and "traditional brewing" ("Alan Meeker")
  Prima Pils/Munich Malts ("Jim Busch")
  Canadian Amateur Brewers Association e-mail update ("Rob Jones")
  Coniston Yeast (William Graham)
  First Mash (Calvin Perilloux)
  Re: German Munich ("Frank J. Russo")
  IBUs in kits ("Sean Richens")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
*** HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU AND YOURS! ***
*
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:33:09 +1100
From: Yorg <yorgsand at netspace.net.au>
Subject: Mixing with tines

Been lurking, and now its time to post.

OK, well I've been reading the mixer dialogue and I 'd appreciate your
views on the method I have been considering and its underlying
assumptions since it will influence a major purchase. Things seem to be
a hell of a lot more expensive here (Australia) than in the US, and I
can't help but get goggle eyed about some of the complaints about price
I hear on the net from people in the States:
"Gee, I couldn't find it surplus so I had to pay $10 dollars for this
thingy that clamps to my what's its name.  Lucky it also doubles as a
pilotless lawn mower, dishwasher, and by removing the that piece on top,
also satisfies me sexually".
You guys don't know how good you've got it.  I guess it just depends on
what you're used to

Anyway, first some background:
I am developing  a heat exchanging recirculation system (just being
diplomatic about acronyms here).
I don't recirculate at anywhere near the velocity that the pumps most
people here recommend/use seem to generate, and I have never had a
compacted grain bed yet.
Given I don't pass wort past a hot element, I can't see why I should be
thrashing so much wort about at what seems to me to be breakneck speed.
I have been using a self priming pump that doesn't tolerate
particulates, but being 12 volts, is speed regulated. Using a coil in
the HLT, and recirculating at what I estimate to be around 5lt per
minute ( around a US gallon) I get very acceptable ramps of around 1.5
deg C per min (around 2.5 deg F).  The system is quite insulated.
However, I'm sick of it blocking up, so now I too will become one of the
mag drive converted.
Your responses will help me make up my mind on the spec of the pump.

So here are the assumptions - and the question will follow.
Assumption No. 1:
Even at this recirculation rate of 5lt per min, if I can ensure no
channelling, I should have even temperature distribution in the
(insulated) mash tun.
Assumption No. 2:
A number of tines ( say every 5cm or 2 inches or so) coming off  a
vertical drive shaft which is attached to a motor above the mash ( like
all other mixers basically) should break up any channelling.
Assumption No. 3:
The RPM is not really critical and would be effective in preventing
channelling from above say about 3 RPM, especially if each tine is
horizontally opposed by another tine, making an effective RPM of 6.

What do you think of these assumptions?

If basically correct, can you think of a reason I should not by the 12V
mag drive motor like the one "Moving Brews" offer, since I already have
a speed controller for it and it has lower recirculation rates without
the amount or throttling back or looping back of the outlet needed for
the higher speed pumps (more wort thrashing you see)?

Thanks for your thoughts, and have a great entry into the new
millennium!

Yorg.



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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:42:15 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: question: spicey flavor to Munich Lager?

I brewed a Munich Lager, using a starter that derived from a Wyeast
Munich Lager smack-pack, and while it has only been in the bottle for
a month it has a distintively spicey flavor.  Could this be from the 
yeast?  I had a hard time keeping the temp down during primary...ie it
went up to 60 degrees a few times....does anyone have experience with
a spicey flavor with the Munich yeast?
 ..Darrell
<Terminally INtermediate Home-brewer>


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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:29:10 -0600
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net>
Subject: Hygrometer Calibration


Thanks for all the info one humidity.

Now the question is, is the salt/water cal method valid at 50F.

The first two hygrometers I checked showed exactly 75% at room temp but when I
moved the setup to a 40F environment, they read 84%.  It sat there for about 12
hours and never moved from 84%.

Assuming it is not a valid technique, is there any point in calibrating a
hygrometer at 70F if it is to be used at 50F?  Are the inaccuracies a function
of humidity or temp or both?

Beer.

js

PHOTO OF THE WEEK  http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
HOME: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos  http://user.mc.net/arf



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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 06:19:19 -0800
From: The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com>
Subject: re: Wacky wisdon, and a toast.

Well, lets see if I can get the last word in on Jack. I doubt it, but
here goes.

Jack says:

>Your approach assumes that power never fails, surges don't happen and
 electronic gadgets only die on que. The EZDictionary defines "sense" 
 as never assuming the above.

Hmmm..the EZDICTIONARY (tm) is a trademark of Zymico, and you must
acknowledge that when using the term. ;^)


On another note, 


I'd like to wish all you folks a Happy New Year, whether you're extract
partial, all grain, or Rube Goldberg brewing.

May your wort run clear!


Wayne Holder
Long Beach CA
http://zymico.web.com
*Coming soon* IGOR2000!


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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:23:05 -0600
From: "Parker, Mike" <mparker at CaseServices.com>
Subject: re: Belgian Doppel Maturity

>I was inspired by the recent issue of Zymurgy to tackle a Belgian
Doppel (sp?).
>One item that was not made clear in the article was the length of time
for the
>brew to mature. Also, I've seen varied opinions over the use of "light"
vs.
>"dark" Belgian candy. Appreciate all feedback.

As in all things, it depends.  With belgians, it depends on a lot
of things, such as yeast used, gravity, % of gravity from sugars,
fermentation temperature profile, open or closed fermentation,
hopping rates, whether or not spices were used, etc.

Belgian yeasts tend to produce more esters and phenols, but lend
authentic flavor and complexity.  Multi-yeast ferments also lend
authenticity and complexity, but also needs more aging.

Higher gravity means longer aging.  It also gives more complexity.

High % sugars give a cidery, alcoholic quality that needs aging to
smooth out.  High gravity Belgian ales almost always use malt to
get to about 1050, then sugars to push the gravity higher.  This
keeps the body light while delivering that high-gravity complexity.

re Dark vs light candi.  They taste about the same, so it depends
on the color you're shooting for and how you'd prefer to get there.
I tend to use light candi, and in a Dubbel I also toss in a small
amount (2 oz) of chocolate malt.  Also boil it for 2 hrs or so to
give it that coppery tone like Chimay Rouge.

The temperature profile also has an effect on the ester production.
Belgians are usually fermented at high temperatures, 75 is common
and 80+ is not unusual.  Wyeast 1214 produces *lots* of banana at
high temperatures, but this will age out eventually.  I'll probably
try the White Labs offering next.  With high-gravity belgians you
should always repitch fresh yeast at bottling like the commercial
breweries do, the yeast in there is just too pooped to give the
high carbonation levels needed.  Prime more as well, about 1cup/5ga.

Lots of belgian beers use coriander, curacao orange, or wilder stuff
for spicing, these tend to leave a characteristic aroma and taste
for a few months, the aroma ages out in a few months leaving additional
complexity without being obviously "spiced".

You might want to pick up a copy of Pierre Rajotte's book "Belgian
Ale" in the "Classic Beer Styles" series for more detailed info.
It's got some fairly gaping holes (as would any book of less than
encyclopedia length when dealing with belgian beers), but is chock
full of interesting info and tips.

Personally, I just make a batch, and try a bottle each month until
its ready.  Generally it starts getting hard to resist at about 3
months, although higher-gravity ales will improve for years.  I've
got a high-gravity Gewurtztraminer & Ginger mead (~1.13) that was
undrinkable at 1 year, and is now 3 years old with an incredible
complexity and *still* improving.

I bottled my last Dubbel (a Chimay Rouge clone) back in November.
Based on my last tasting, it should be ready sometime in March.
A Belgian Pale Ale (similar to Celis Pale Bock) was bottled a
month earlier, and is nearly gone.  I'm about to make a Belgian
Strong Pale Ale (ala Duvel/Delerium Tremens/Celis Grand Cru)
that I expect to age for 6 months or more.


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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:00:57 -0500
From: Jacob Bogie <JBogie at outpost.com>
Subject: Yeast Culturing

NEW TO THIS!!!

I'm trying to do this as reasonably as possible and I hope it works...

December 25th brought me a very nice Yeast Culturing kit and the slants got
inoculated last night!

Here is my question...

My apartment is cool...around 64 degrees F year round so my starters usually
take 2-3 days to krausen, but the yeast slants? Can they incubate and
reproduce in this temp? 

I'm not too worried about it...I turned up the heat to 74 in my bathroom and
put the slants and starters up high on the tallest shelf I have. I would
assume that ambient temp. is around 72-75 degrees. 

One other thing...When I "culture" or inoculate a plate to clean the
strain...what is the best characteristics to look for in the new yeast
colonies? Are there tell tale signs of a bad colony? I have a lot of bottle
conditioned yeast to clear out.

Thanks for the insight....

BURLY ONE

"Riding is about rhythm and flow. It's the wind in your face and the
challenge of hammering up a long hill. It's the reward at the top and the
thrill of a high-speed descent. Biking lets you come alive both in body and
spirit. After awhile the bike disappears beneath you and you feel as if
you're suspended in midair."

                                                                   -Gary
Klein




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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:24:23 -0800
From: "scott" <windsurf at bossig.com>
Subject: Hefe question and GM

My Hefe's taste all right, but miss that golden yellow thick yeast color,
typical of the American commercial version.  I allgrain, using Canadian
malted wheat.  One problem I surmise, is possibly am recirculating too much
(HERM's), thus clearing the beer more than I would like.  I then typically
ferment for a week, then rack for another couple weeks before bottling.  I
have used both 3056 and 3333.  Any thoughts?

As far as genetically modified seeds, yes, we have been modifying our food
for eons.  However, it does start to concern me when science would have us
believe they have mastered the science of farming.  "Roundup Ready" seeds
(not affected by insecticide spray)are already here.

Our vegetables/grains have a genetic history that has taken thousands of
years.  It has been postulated that since big business can't patent this,
they will sell you "improved" seeds, guaranteed to get greater yield, and
greater disease control, with the goal of selling to you annually, since the
crop must be "seedless".

This is so concerning to some, that a seed exchange program has been in
place for some time.  Many organic minded people stock and trade
vegetable/fruit seeds that have linages from hundreds of years back.  They
don't trust the same folks that gave us DDT.

OUR FOOD SUPPLY is being manipulated!

Luckily, farmers are getting the message REAL quick.  Europe and Asia by and
large are refusing to buy U.S. grain that has been genetically modified.  In
a CBS segment I saw, farmers have GM seed in stock, but are definitely
leaning towards going non GM if that's what the market desires.



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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:37:01 -0500
From: "John A. Slusher" <jslusher at flash.net>
Subject: Valley Mill Motorization

Kevin,

In response to your question below, I have one of the earlier versions of 
the Valley Mill that I'm very pleased with.  I'm currently in the process 
of upgrading the adjustable roller to bearings (the latest rev of the Mill 
that's offered now).  Mine is driven 4:1 by a A.O.Smith A.C.Motor (I not 
sure how old the motor is, or if you can get them anymore...I dug it out of 
my Dad's shop...but I'm sure you can find an equivalent).  See the specs on 
the motor below.

S/N:316P758
SER 2A89
HP: 1/4
TYPE: FH
RPM: 1725
Volts: 115, AMPs: 5.1, Hz: 60
Thermally Protected
Can be wired to rotated CW or CCW

The motor and mill are mounted to a slab of pressboard (compress sawdust 
glued together) that is formica covered.  The two are connected via a V 
belt (allows for some slippage if a stone or hard grain is 
encountered...pulleys can be ordered from the McMaster-Carr 
(http://www.mcmaster.com) online catalog).  I adapted a 5 gal plastic 
carboy to the top of the mill to expand the mills capacity to 25lbs.  With 
this setup I can mill a full grain bill "hands-off" in a couple of minutes 
(beats the hell outta cranking).  Hope this helps in your quest.



"Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 04:52:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Kevin TenBrink <zzymurgist at yahoo.com>
Subject: Valley Mill Motors
Hello-
I was recently on the receiving end of a new Valley
Mill. I am interested in motorizing it and am looking
for sources of motors that would be up to the task.
My HB shop owner used an old clothes dryer motor. Any
Ideas?
Kevin
Elkhart IN"


****************************************************
Twilight Brewing Company
Puryeors of award winning beers in Ferndale Maryland
John Slusher, Brewmaster
jslusher at flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~jslusher/crabs
****************************************************



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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:13:31 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Rehydration, Luddites and GM

Brewsters:

Paul Schick reports on one suggested method
utilizing  first runnings to give his yeast a head
start. Because he was commenting on several
suggestions, I am not sure from the sentence
structure exactly what Paul is recommending,
and others may also be puzzled. 

He suggests the use of a small amount of
boiled first runnings to give the rehydrated
yeast a running start during the following
processing steps for the rest of the brew.
A good idea.  However, be sure to do
three things 1) rehydrate the dried yeast in cool
boiled water for 10-15 minutes ( which he did
in his earlier submission) and not in the wort
directly  2) before boiling, dilute the first
runnings to approximately SG = 1.020 to 1.040
3) pour the cool boiled wort back and forth
several times or oxygenate another way
by air or oxygen.
- ----------------------------------------------
I really don't want to get into a heated,
emotional argument based on minimum
facts of genetic modifications, but I do
know that people used to be afraid of
automobiles and how they would scare
the horses. And they did. And they
( read WE) did pollute the air, make a
lot of noise, etc. etc.

Nevertheless, our Lifestyle did
change mostly for the better for all of us.
We live supremely better lives than 
our fathers, grandfathers and great
grandfathers, largely because of
technological developments.  Do
things have to change? You bet!
Was it always for the better for each
of us? No. But in general it was best
for all of us, which is how things should
be measured.  By making use of 
other technology ( like road building,
catalysts, etc.)  we were able to 
manage the automobile negatives
and take advantage of the good things. 
 
Few of us would go back to the days of
horse maintenance, shovelling horse
manure, feeding, currying horses, every
day whether or not we used the horse.
No vacations or leaving the house for
long, as we had animals to tend.  All for
the pleasure to move just at three or
four miles an hour while freezing our nuts
off in the winter and sweltering in the
summer. Side stepping horse turds
as we walked down the street, smelling
all those crap and urine smells, ( I mean,
where was the EPA?) Ask yourself,
"If things were so good way back then,
why did it change?" Were our forefathers
stupid, mindless puppets of giant
unthinking corporations? I doubt it. 

The main economic force in this
country both internal and exports
is agriculture. This may come as a
surprise that it is not airplanes or
computers, but agriculture.  The
major source of growth over the last
century in a our economy and lifestyle
has been due to agricultural and
biological developments. We are on 
the doorstep of throwing all that away
in response to foreign marketing forces

I beleieve the major GM issue is one of 
market protection. Just as the atomic
power issue is one of big coal and oil 
pulling the wool over this country's eyes
so they can continue to pollute, GM
opposition is an issue developed
largely by the agricultural interests,
especially in France, to protect their
markets from superior, patented US
agricultural products. Unfortunately, they,
along with the Greens ( who constantly
need new issues to fill their coffers),  are
able to misuse well meaning, but
gullible conservatives in their war
to protect their markets.  Who benefits?
Certainly not us, the consumer, but
socialist government sponsored
agricultural interests - and not even
in this country!

Think about the recent negative
flurry over improving the productivity
of milk cows. It used  a natural product
already occurring in milk. What was the
big deal from a scientific point of view?
No one has ever shown any negative
effect. Nothing, except we could produce
milk cheaper than old timey methods.
Why the complaints? Marketing and
subsidy issues. Result of all this anti
market hype from foreign sources?
We are producing dairy products at
a higher cost than necessary while
children around the world and in our
own country starve for lack of a cheaper
source of dairy protein. Worse, in my
opinion, for the good of us all is that
research in these areas has been
stopped, as we do research and take
capital risks based on perceived
future  profitability.

What is the big deal now? 
Higher yield and pest resistant ( meaning
no chemicals need be applied) soybeans.
Since soybeans have worked their way
into nearly every food over the past century,
it should be of concern that these are safe.
Is there even a scrap of evidence they
are not? Nope. Does that keep this from
becoming an issue and having horrendous
negative effects on the marketing of
these soybeans and supporting new
agricultural research? Nope.
No information is far better than any
information as far as the Luddites and
spinners go. Always has been, always will
be. Don't make your life decisions on
rumor and scare tactics, especially from
self interested rumor-mongers.

What is the long term effect of this?
A screeching halt to research and
market development of agricultural
and, no doubt, medical research. Do we
really want that? I don't think so.

I agree that the possibility of developing
something "unnatural" is a scary possibility,
but we can be thankful that Nature has
provided many checks and balances
to that issue. We should be ashamed that
we are so responsive to unsupported
scare tactics without even asking  for
some proof. I have yet to get any one
who objects to GM to provide me with
a scrap of evidence that GM is any worse
than what Nature provides as a normal
course of events. Certainly GM biological
material gets far more official and
scientific scrutiny than any natural mutation
and selection. In that way, it is likely far
safer. 

As to the issue of testing. Who is the 
right person to decide what tesing
is appropriate? Do we need an
equivalent to the EPA to protect us?
As much as I shudder at the idea, it
might not be a bad idea if this would 
let us get on with the science of
improving our daily life with all this
wonderful technology instead of hiding
our head in a hole.

So what of Genetic Modification? Is 
this a marvel of science which can
completely alter our lives for the better?
I am sure it is. Foods, medicine, things
I can't even imagine, nor can you.
Can there be problems?
I am also sure of that.  What to do?
Manage it!  Extract the best, eschew
the rest. But above all, don't be fooled
by self-interested hype.

Happy New Beer!
 

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:34:43 PST
From: "Steve Blanchard" <steve_blanchard at hotmail.com>
Subject: CO2 Tank

I have a question for the collective.  I have had an old discharged  10# CO2 
fire extinguisher in my basement for about 10 yrs.  I was always saving it 
for something (not sure what at the time) and think I may have found a good 
use for it.  I would like to remove the fire extinguisher components and add 
a valve to use as a CO2 tank for kegging.  My wife is uncomfortable with the 
idea because of possible toxic additives or contaminants when used as a fire 
extinguisher and says I may contaminate the homebrew if used as I had 
planned.  I don't wish to start the benzene thread up again.  I am willing 
to buy as new tank if necessary but would like to use this tank if it is 
suitable for my needs. Any advice is appreciated.  Private e-mail is fine.  
Thanks.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:58:58 -0500
From: John Herman <johnvic at earthlink.net>
Subject: Wyeast #1084

I have used Wyeast #1084 on several occasions for making Dry Irish
Stouts.  I also oxygenate, a lot.  I have been very happy with my final
gravity.  I don't have my notes with me, but they were all well within
guidelines and tasted great.



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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:25:16 -0500
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com>
Subject: new group for making Sauerkraut

Hi folks,

I know this is off-topic, but it does involve fermentation.
I just created a new egroup for making sauerkraut.  Simply
go to http://www.egroups.com/ and sign-up to 
rec-crafts-sauerkraut

cheers,
 -Alan



- --
Alan McKay
amckay at ottawa.com
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html





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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:49:27 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: GMO and "traditional brewing"

OK, I can't resist a short reply to the GMO thread...

Glen Pannicke (and others) have responded along these lines:

> ...It's the Zen of
> Brewing that does it for me,
> so to use a genetically altered yeast in my beer would be similar to
> automating my mashing or
> going back to extract
> I didn't say automation or
> extract is bad....

> ...things the "old school" way as much as is conveniently possible...

> ...because I want to retain the esthetic quality attributed to a
hand-crafted
> product made more
> through the use of all natural ingredients and the brewer's love of the
art
> than with high throughput,
> super-efficient technology.

But how "old" is that school whose methods you want to retain? Are we to go
back all the way to the Samarian school where we will have to grow our own
grain, slightly mash it, make bread out of it and hope that some wet bread
gets innoculated with some freindly fermentative microbes blowing in the
wind, saving the resultant "brew" (without refrigeration) in a clay pot that
we have hand made? Personally, I don't think I would enjoy drinking the
results on a daily basis! Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating total
automation of my brewing process - far from it. I don't want a mechanical
"me" doing all the work while I'm off doing something else, I actually enjoy
the process in the same way that I enjoy fishing even if I don't happen to
catch anything. But I do acknowledge the fact that I use /plenty/ of
technology in my brewing practice - the thermometer, the stainless steel
kettle, the propane cooker, the water out of my faucet, the glass carboys,
the vacuum packed hops (refrigerated!), etc, etc, etc,  we are positively
/swimming/ in the benefits of all sorts of technological advances of which
GMO are another example. People will just have to place them in their own
perspectives...

As far as factory farm chickens go:

> Sure, they would make the worst eggs for mass production, but they tasted
> damn fine 'cause they
> were all natural.

There's a fair amount of potential bias in such a pronouncement - the real
way to tell is to do a double- blinded taste test on many people.

Also, Consumer Reports did an article a little while back comparing "factory
farm" chickens to "free-range" chickens and from what I remember the rules
for allowing the "free-range" moniker were lax enough that some producers
were for all intents and purpoese factory farms but they let their chickens
out into a very small enclosed yard for some short amount of time per day or
week or whatever. The take home was that just because it may say
"free-range" unless you actually check out the supplier you may not be
getting exactly what you think!

> How did the flesh eating e.coli develop? Farmers using
> anitbiotics all the time.
> Jim Liddil

Hey Jim, I think the flesh-eater was a strain of  S. aureus not E. coli...

 -Alan Meeker
Hoarding my eggs for the millenium...




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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:44:39 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: Prima Pils/Munich Malts

Pete notes:

<now about the Prima Pils by Victory Brewing in Philly.  excellent, 
<so very very smooth.  nice and crisp.  any ideas on the hops, 
<hopping, schedule or yeast?  it is the one US brewed German style 
<beer that I have truely enjoyed.  any info out there would be great. 
< you all need to try Victorys stuff - I have had their Old 
<Horizontal barley wine, their Imperial Stout, Hop Devil IPA, and now 
<Prima Pils.  Wow, what a lineup.  Have to get to Philly to sample at 
<the brewhouse sometime.

Thanks for the kind words of support!  It really means a lot to hear 
supportive comments like these from the more hard core beer fans. 
After all, Victory was founded from original homebrewers who learned 
the craft in the fine micros like Degroens and Dominion as well as 
drinking and training in Germany.  The brewhouse was designed to 
perform decoction mashing for continental lagers (but works great for 
American and Belgian ales too) but also using whole flower hops.  Its 
my opinion that the wonderful aromatics evident in HopDevil and Prima 
are a result of using whole hops and a hopback as well as the careful 
watching of Ron and Bill.  BTW, Victory is located in Downingtown, 
Pa, about 35 miles west of Philly.  Directions are on the web site.

Heres some pointers on making a homebrewed version of Prima Pils:

Prima is slightly higher OG than the traditional German pils, aim 
for around 13P.  A grist of 100% pils malt from Germany or the Czech
republic would be good.  Perform a multi step mash or decoction 
according to the malt specs, ie if needed.  Take care to avoid oxygen 
pickup during mashing and lautering.  Hopping is around 50-60 BUs, 
you can choose to use all noble hops if you can fit all the hops in 
your kettle, or start with a higher alpha kettle hop like German 
Perle or Northern Brewer and follow up with the traditional flavor 
and aroma hops such as Hallertau and plenty of Saaz.  Do not dry hop 
pils and be sure to boil the last hop addition for at least 5-10 
mins.  Use a huge starter of clean lager yeast, a one gallon starter 
can be allowed to complete and take the slurry from that for 5-6 
gals.  Oxygenate to saturation by injection/bubbling pure O2.  
Ferment cool, keeping below 50F.  Lager 5-6 weeks at 31F.

I believe it was also Pete who asked about Weyermann's Munich malts 
and poor extraction.  Without knowing your mashing program its 
somewhat difficult to guess a cause but possibly one can look at too 
short or no beta rest as a culprit.  Or lautering.  I have brewed 
several beers with this malt and its worked fine for me, I usually 
dough in around 132F and rest at 144F, 156F and mashout at 170.

Prost and Happy New Year to all!  (I'll be welcoming in this New Year 
with lots of Prima and a touch of Golden Monkey, yeah!!)

Jim Busch


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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:27:54 -0500
From: "Rob Jones" <robjones at pathcom.com>
Subject: Canadian Amateur Brewers Association e-mail update

Hi All,

Below is the e-mail update for CABA. Thought it could be of interest to a
few not in the loop. For you brewers South of the border note the AHA First
Round for the GCHC in May.

Cheers,
Rob Jones
CABA Secretary
http://realbeer.com/caba/

Things to look for in the mail soon; renewal forms and the March In
Montreal Competition entry form.

Renewals: CABA has finally raised our membership fees. It has been a
while since our last increase. A one year membership has gone from $21
to $25, while a two year membership remains at $40. No change to
Corporate Memberships.

March In Montreal: The dates have been set, March 4 is the entry
deadline while the event will be held on Saturday March 18. Entry forms
should be in the mail by the first week of January. Registration forms
for the event will follow towards the end of January with the first
issue of the CABATimes for 2000.

The Great Canadian Homebrew Coonference will once again be held at the
Royal Canadian Legion in Etobicoke. The date is set for May 13. Look for
a list of speakers in the next CABATimes. We are planning a Friday May
12 Pub Crawl and a Sunday May 14 Brunch so book the whole weekend off!

Once again the Great Canadian Homebrew Competition will act as a First
Round for the AHA's National Homebrew Competition. Entry deadline will
be April 29, 2000.

The Edmonton Homebrewers Guild are working out the details for the 2000
Aurora Brewing Challenge.





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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:23:08 -0700
From: William Graham <geeks at att.net>
Subject: Coniston Yeast

Zymurtistas -
	Looking for different, yet good yeast ( and, well, free ) I decided to
grow what I found on the bottom of a bottle of Coniston's Bluebird
Bitter, winner of The Best Beer in Britain, or some such award.
	I have stumbled around and somehow got some yeast growing, and the beer
tastes OK ( i.e.., nothing grossly wrong ). However, this stuff is the
most flocculent stuff in existence - when I shake up the growler, all I
get are plastic-y looking chunks floating around.
	So, seeing as this yeast is heavily flocculent, do any 'o you think
this is merely a "priming" yeast, and one I should probably not brew
with ( and expect good "English" qualities )?

Bill 
	In Golden, Colorado, home of the "Golden City" brewery


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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:31:23 -0500
From: Calvin Perilloux <peril at compuserve.com>
Subject: First Mash

Dave Clark asks about methods for his first mash:

>Will I be better off doughing in in the lauter tun, mashing and sparging
>or should I mash in a large pot on my stove and transfer to the lauter
>tun for sparging?

As a first mash, I'd say take it easy, and the easiest way is to mash it
in the large pot and then transfer it over.  If you overshoot the strike
temperature, you'll have to correct with a cold water infusion in either
vessel, but if you undershoot it, it is very easily corrected in the pot
with heat applied (and stir to avoid scorching!) without diluting the
mash, as you'd have to do in the lauter tun (unless you have a snazzy
all-metal lauter!).  

As for the Hot Side Aeration demons, I personally think that the
first mash gives to many more opportunities for botching things up
for you to to worry about HSA. And that said, the surface area and
oxygenation of a big "glop" into the lauter tun are minimal compared
to things like splashing wort in small dribbles as you sparge.  So
worry not at all about that.

>What about "mashing out"... (in transfer from pot to lauter tun)

You will have some temperature drop.  I wouldn't propose overheating
for the mashout, though, since when I've used that mash-then-dump
method, I didn't encounter any trouble with it, even when my sparges
ran significantly colder than I'd hoped.  Less extract, sure, but again,
you've got many other things to worry about on the first mash.

Just get the basic procedure down, and you can refine it later,
moving to infusion in the lauter vessel when you feel comfortable.

Calvin Perilloux
Staines, Middlesex, England


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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:32:43 -0500
From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com>
Subject: Re: German Munich



>>From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
  Subject: German Munich <<

Pete,

	Just for my own interest I plugged in your grain bill into my own
calculator and here is what I came up with, I changed your % > #'s  I would
have preferred to of had the weights of the grains used:

5 gals : 	6.2# Weyermanns Munich
		.3# German crystal
		2.1# wheat
		1.5# 2 row pale

		10 # grain bill 2#/gal

	Theo O.G. 1.077
		 at  68% eff > 1.053
		 at  58%     > 1.044

	IBU = 70  Color 8 (1-25)

Frank
Havelock, NC
"There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."



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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 18:52:04 -0600
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: IBUs in kits

To reply to John P.:

 ...My opinion or thought is that the hops are already isomerized in the
hopped malts so
boil gravity doesn't affect utilization like it would if you were adding an
equivalent amount of hops (HBUs).  I would love to see others opinions or
this...

MHO:  For 90% of kits I agree completely.  The trick is that a few kits
seem to have sufficient dissolved but unisomerized AAs to gain considerable
bitterness.  There may be hypotheses more consistent with known theory than
that, but that's my observation.

 ...Anyway I wish the hopped
malts would use a bitterness rating like Morgans rather than using BUs...

MHO:  Hear, hear.

 ...Some extract producers use EBUs or IBUs and some don't.  Also, I think
you
can find a rating of some hopped malts at the brewery library...

MHO:  and in one of the books, but I can't remember which one.  

MHO:  And I won't even get started on GMOs.  I couldn't stay on topic for
the first sentence.  I'll just say my mind is open.  Maybe they're safe,
maybe not.  You go first and let me know in 20 years if it was safe.

Sean



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