HOMEBREW Digest #3214 Thu 06 January 2000

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  Beer diets 2000 ("Alan Meeker")
  Head Start Alt yeast (Jeremy Bergsman)
  leaching tannins (Kurt Goodwin)
  Mike's Irish Moss question ("Sean Richens")
  Re: Luddites (phil sides jr)
  French wine (John Wilkinson)
  Lab Rat Questions (Biergiek)
  (no subject) (John Wilkinson)
  Re: Fermentation Temperature (Ant Hayes)
  Slightly OT: deleading pewter flask (Dan Cole)
  Tannin extraction in late sparge ("Alan Meeker")
  Burleyisms ("Alan Meeker")
  WHY would you refit with THESE costs??!? ("Brett A. Spivy")
  GMOs (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  pH at end of sparge ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Hey, now... (Some Guy)
  Re: kegging (Jeff Renner)
  Hats of to Whitelabs WLP500 Trappist Ale Yeast! (Darrell Leavitt)
  munich and low extraction ("Czerpak, Pete")
  No future (jliddil)
  Re: German Beer (Fredrik Stahl)
  priming kegs and RIMS heating ("Stephen and Carolyn Ross")
  GM foods, Safety, Early Racking (RCAYOT)
  Co2 /Nitrogen mix ("Don Van Valkenburg")
  RE: Fermentation Temperature (LaBorde, Ronald)
  re: Old Peculier recipe (Michael Kitt)
  ok, I lied... (Robin Griller)
  Beer Gas (Richard Foote)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 21:50:37 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Beer diets 2000 In December Matt Smiley wrote in part: - --------------------------------------------------------------------- ...A common misconception is that the body burns calories like a furnace, liberating the maximum thermodynamic value from all sources. This is an oversimplification. Amino acids (proteins) and lipids (fats) are used for many non-energy processes in the body, such as manufacturing structural cellular components, hormones, etc. When the body is forced to make glucose from proteins and fats, it ends up with much less energy than if the nutrients were metabolized in the most efficient way. Calories from foods are calculated by simply burning them in a calorimeter. The human metabolism has much more complex methods of handling them, and these processes sacrifice efficiency for the sake of versatility. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- OK, here are some useful facts to keep handy for diet discussions (Source is Bowman and Rand's textbook of Pharmacology and Devlin's Textbook of Biochemistry with clinical correlations): Energy contents (heats of combustion) for the three major components of food: Protein = 2.25MJ/100g = 5.4kcal/g Carbohydrate = 1.65MJ/100g = 3.9kcal/g Fat = 3.9MJ/100g = 9.3kcal/g This represents the absolute amount of energy potentially obtainable from these food sources. These were determined by burning these to completion in a true bomb calorimeter. These represents the absolute upper limits. Now, here are the Atwater values which attempt to take into account the fact that our metabolism of these foods is less than 100% efficient: Protein = 1.7MJ/100g = 4.1kcal/g Carbohydrate = 1.6MJ/100g = 3.8kcal/g Fat = 3.7MJ/100g = 8.8kcal/g So, while protein loses the most caloric value due to incomplete/ineffecient utilization as an energy source it is still virtually equal in caloric value to carbohydrate on a per weight basis. Also, note that these values are in fact the values usually quoted for caloric contents for these food components: 4 kcal for protein, 4 kcal for carbohydrates, and 9kcal for fats. These are not the values derived from bomb calorimetry. I still maintain that the ballance between calories in/calories out is a pretty good indicator of whether or not you will gain/lose weight in the long run. While the metabolic pathways are complex indeed, the basics are pretty simple. There are only a few fates available to the food we eat. It wiill either be used for energy, be used to build body infrastructure, or will not be utilized at all and will be excreted in the urine or feces. That's about it. We can't violate any physical laws here- matter can neither be created nor destroyed. If we swallow it, it's gotta go somewhere. There is nothing that special about protein. Remember that it will all be broken down and absorbed as amino acids and that these are for the most part convertable to glucose. Here's a relavent quote from Devlin's Biochemistry: "The average adult in this country consumes far more protein than needed... The excess protein is simply treated as a source of energy, with the glucogenic amino acids being converted to glucose and the ketogenic amino acids being converted to fatty acids and keto acids. Both kinds of amino acids will of course eventually be converted to triacylglycerol in the adipose tissue... Thus for most of us the only body building obtained from high-protein diets is adipose tissue." This makes sense - that excess amino acids will simply be treated as an energy source and either burned or converted to fat and stored if the total caloric intake (all sources) exceeds the body's energy needs. The only other places it can go is to make (non-fat) body mass or not be utilized and excreted. How much of the dietary protein can we expect to be utilized for maintenance of body structures/ protein components, etc? "Assuming adequate calorie intake and 75% efficiency of utilization, which is typical of the mixed protein in the American diet, the recommended protein intake is 0.8 g per kg body weight per day. This amounts to about 58 g of protein per day for a 72-kg (160 lb) man." ..."The average American currently consumes 99 g of protein." Dave Burley wrote in part... - ------------------------------------------------ I have read comments here to the effect thatcalories are calories and it doesn't make any difference what you eat. Sorry, but the18th century concept that your body is a Parr Bomb Calorimeter ( thermochemicalapparatus in which calorie content is measured by burning under oxygen pressure)is not correct. Your body apparently does not choose to process everything you eat( except perhaps carbohydrates). I once read that if this model were correct, then byeating just one carrot a day beyond your calorie output, you would weigh 1200 pounds at 75 years old.Obviously this model is incorrect. - ------------------------------------------------ No, the alternative is that your "factoid" is what is incorrrect which is indeed the case here. Carrots(raw) have an energy content of 0.3MJ per 100g wet weight (taking the Atwater factors into consideration). This translates into 71 kcal/100g. Now, I've just gone and weighed an average sized carrot and it weighed about 25 grams. Thus, an average carrot has about 18 kcal of dietary energy available in it. Compare eating this extra carrot per day with eating an extra 100 kcal per day. If you eat 100 extra kcal/day above and beyond what you need for general maintenance then you will gain 10 pounds of fat after one year. For the case of an extra carrot a day therefore, you will gain a maximum of 1.8 pounds per year. Assuming you are doing this for your entire life to age 75 this only allows for a weight gain of 135 pounds; not the ridiculous value of 1200 you "remember reading" Dave. I'd admonish you to start taking the excellent advice you recently posted to check your facts before posting such nonsense. As you said yourself, you might actually learn something! -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:59:50 -0800 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Head Start Alt yeast Head Start AKA Aeonbrau (sp?) was a homebrewer's yeast supplier run by Dr. Brian Nummer. I really like the Alt yeast they sold. Unfortunately, I just went to my freezer box and my master vial is missing! Yesterday I threw out the last plate from 3/99. Ouch! If anyone has this yeast stored somewhere I'd be very grateful for 1 or more cells sent my way. Name your price. A contact for Brian Nummer would be appreciated too, just in case he can be convinced to crack the freezer for an old customer. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at stanford.edu http://www.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:03:16 -0500 From: kurt at greennet.net (Kurt Goodwin) Subject: leaching tannins Paul writes: "With regard leaching tannins in low gravity runoff, I just dont think that this has been the case (or even begins to qualify as a common occurrence). Also dont forget that the supposed leaching of tannins actually having an impact on the final quality of the beer is even more questionable than whether the tannins leaching or not." Your basic point is right, anecdotal evidence is not scientific proof. And as I said before, I don't pretend to know whether what I percieve as being a puckery taste is due to tannins, or anything else. From a homebrewing perspective, it's hard to see any strong benefit to squeezing the last 3 maltose molecules out of the grain bed on the one hand, whereas there's some risk of picking up less than desireable flavors from sparging too long. The scientific question is mildly interesting, but us engineer types will probably continue to throw in an extra 1/2 pound of malt and stop the sparge a few minutes earlier. Minimal added cost for possibly low payoff with no real downside risk. The pros must care more about how close they can come to the edge. Any body want to fess up experience in the barrels and barrels range? Kurt Goodwin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 21:22:54 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Mike's Irish Moss question I wouldn't worry about getting Irish Moss into the primary fermenter. Sure, it will all be stirred up by fermentation, but the objective of the finings is to turn small protein particles (smaller than yeast cells) into big protein/sugar particles (at least as big as yeast cells). It will just settle out later rather than sooner. The charge on the proteins will get stronger as the pH drops during fermentation, so I expect there won't be any dissociation. I don't notice any trouble with it, anyway. Has anyone ever made the same (more or less) recipe with and without Irish Moss or Break Brite and noticed any difference? Sean Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:02:49 -0500 From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net> Subject: Re: Luddites Dave Burley typed: >I didn't call anyone a Luddite. But, Robin, >if the shoe fits... I was thinking "Unabrewer" but Robin's brevity threw me ;-) Phil Sides, Jr. Concord, NH - -- Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:30:03 -0600 From: John Wilkinson <jandjwilkins at earthlink.net> Subject: French wine Although I agree with much of what Dave Burley has to say about GM products and protectionism, I have to say I have yet to taste an American red wine equal to a decent Bordeaux, or even a good Chianti. Yhe only California reds I have tasted that might compare to moderately priced Bordeaux were several times the price. I have tasted nothing from the U.S. so far that is anywhere close to a classified growth Bordeaux. Of course, this is my own preference and I know there are people who probably know more than I do of wine who praise California reds. For me, there is no comparison to Bordeaux. And a Reserva Ducale Chianti beats any U.S. red I have had. If Dave or anyone else knows of a U.S red in the league with a good Bordeaux, Chianti, or Barolo, let me know. At a comparable price or not. >The Appellation Controllee is a classic >example of market control in which the >volume of wine entering the market is >controlled by a strict acreage limit and >to the benefit of a few powerful chateaus >who were in political control in the >1850s. Only the developments in the >US which ignored French "terrior" >arguments proved we can make better >wines. Now French winemakers are >racing to catch up. But they didn't >for over a hundred years, because >it was not to their benefit. The result: >crappy wines from France for most >wine drinkers. It is changing today >because of technology >improvements. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 00:53:11 EST From: Biergiek at aol.com Subject: Lab Rat Questions Hello Ladies, Gentlemen, & the vermin from Western, MI. I need some expertise from the lab: 1) What is the function of wort pH versus temperature? (, i.e., if the wort pH is 5.8 at 80F what is the pH at 150F, etc.) 2) I am interested in zinc chloride, not as scarry as it sounds, its just a fetish with me. What I would like to know is if I add 1 gram of this stuff in 1 gallon of water what is the yield of zinc and chloride ions in ppm? If you are real nice to me I will tell you why. Don't know about you, but I have enjoyed JackS and Zymie in the thunder dome, all we need now is for Burley to wear a black and white striped shirt and Dr. Pivo to MC the fight: "get ready to rumbllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllle"! Thanks, from the chemistry impaired, Kyle Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:03:53 -0600 From: John Wilkinson <jandjwilkins at earthlink.net> Subject: (no subject) Don Van Valkenburg wrote: >Here is a method I have used with success to make a port. >- ---I'll get to the method, but first the story--- >I have been making wine a couple years now and always reluctant to toss the >skins after pressing as my process is not extremely efficient and there is a >lot of juice left in the skins. I add sugar/water (or honey/water) back >on top of the skins and do a second fermentation, and wine, albeit of lesser >quality. This second wine became the perfect candidate for >experimentation. It was a drinkable table wine, but not something I would >enter into a contest. This sounds like what the Italians call Grappa, except Grappa is distilled. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:43:15 +0200 From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Subject: Re: Fermentation Temperature Doug McCullough said, "We all know fermentation generates heat. I wonder how many of us have ever measured just how much heat is generated in our own systems. My current thinking is that if the recommended fermentation temperature for a strain of yeast is no more than 73 degrees, I should not attempt to ferment in my basement if the ambient temperature there is over 64 degrees." I had a similar experience recently. I am using a yeast that has a range of 8C to 11C (46 to 52F). Unfortunately my unmodified brew fridge only goes up to 6C. I gave it a try anyway, as ambient is currently about 25. Much to my horror, the temp of the beer after 2 days was sitting around 12. Fridge interior ambient was at 6. Ant Hayes Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 06:09:56 -0500 From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net> Subject: Slightly OT: deleading pewter flask I hope everone will forgive me for this slightly OT question, but has anyone tried the standard brass deleading method on pewter? I received a nice pewter whiskey flask, but it came with instructions to not leave any alcoholic beverage in it for more than 24 hours. Looking in the company's catalog some they offer are deleaded, but that description is notably missing in the description of this flask (which is the reason for the 24 hour limit, I am sure). Will the peroxide and vinegar solution work on pewter (remove the lead and not cause any other damage)? Thanks, Dan Cole Roanoke, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:14:45 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Tannin extraction in late sparge Louis Bonham responds to Paul's questions regarding tannin extraction: > The relative levels of polyphenols and wort gravity > remain fairly constant until wort gravity goes below about 6 > P (SG 1.024), at which point the relative polyphenol levels > begin to rise dramatically. (Not coincidentally, pH and > mineral compound levels also start to rise dramatically at > this point.) By the time you get to SG 1.010, the > polyphenol levels (relative to wort gravity) are over *ten > times* as high as they were at the beginning of the sparge. Is the critical parameter here pH? I maintain my sparge pH around 5.5-6.0 so as to limit the extraction of tannins but I haven't really seen any good (scientific) data as to how protective this actually is. Also, I'm a bit confused by your "10X relative to wort gravity figure." The way I read this it sounds like the concentration of polyphenols is staying relatively constant while the suger concentration falls with sparging thus the 10X relative increase. I'll have to check the Lewis table. If polyphenols themselves were being extracted at a rate 10X higher than they were in the early sparge then the later comment you make - that the majority of tannins come out in the first runnings - doesn't make sense because it would mean that each gallon of late sparge has the polyphenol equivalent of /10 gallons/ of first runnings! > Does this increase in tannic materials matter? I have > theorized that this is the reason why "no sparge" beers are > consistently judged to taste better and maltier than > equivalent gravity sparged beers. In the experiment I did > for my BT column a while back, the total polyphenol levels > of the sparged beer *were* significantly higher than the > beer made solely from first runnings. Granted, this is n=1, > but there it is. I must say, the more I hear/think about the no-sparge method the more attractive it becomes... -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:26:56 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Burleyisms Robin Griller and Ken Schramm take Dave Burley to task for his outrageous statements/behavior on the HBD. Watch out you guys! Burley's response to similar comments I made recently was to threaten me with a lawsuit!! Apparently he is "keeping a file" on me. Whatever. I simply don't have the time to respond to all the bizarre statements he makes. The best I can do is to warn people to take whatever he says with a HUGE grain of salt... -Alan Meeker (graciously accepting contributions towards my legal defense fund) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:19:00 -0600 From: "Brett A. Spivy" <baspivy at softdisk.com> Subject: WHY would you refit with THESE costs??!? in HBD # 3212, Sandy Wrote: Costs will vary but mine were as follows Hydro test to 3500 psig US$ 15 Machining US$ 15 New CO2 vale US$ 30 If you are going to spend $60 on a bottle plus another $40-$50 for a regulator and guages, that's like a $15 savings and a LOT of work. If your extinguisher is one of those posh looking ones that used to hang in my old high school (they were brass or crome with lots of stamping and looked great polished-up), I'll send you $15 and my UPS account number. You can ship me the collectable and go buy yourself a tank. Brett A. Spivy Stolen Cactus Brewery (thinking one of those old brass fire extinguishers would look rather smart hanging in the pool room) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:46:54 -0500 From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com Subject: GMOs Will the creators of GMOs assume *personal* responsibility/liability for their creations? Or, will they take the usual route of lobbying our esteemed lawmakers to limit their liability, as done by the nuclear and software industries? I sense another cost shift to the citizen coming ... The technology is powerful, the risk/benefit analysis incomplete (but trending toward Our risk/Their benefit), the potential consequences are huge, and the understanding is tenuous. Doesn't give me a warm fuzzy ... Mark (Developing that "Brewsters"/PgDn Twitch) in Kalamazoo GMOs: Another Great Idea From the Same Folks Who Gave Us Kudzu and Nuclear Power and Love Canal and DDT and Y2K and ... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:05:42 -0500 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: pH at end of sparge Bret and others have been discussing tannins and pH. I thought I would like to take this discussion back a step to where it might be of more use to the General Digest population, not to mention myself... Santa gave me a pH meter for Christmas. A few more brain cells in my stocking would have been helpfull during my last brew. I accidently acidified my Bohemian Pils sparge water (Culligan) to a pH of 3.7 Oops. I diluted as much as I could and got it up to 3.9. (arhg) The pH of the final run off was 5.2 and the pH of the full kettle volume was 5.3. I gave a collective Whew! and went about the rest of the brew. I forgot What potential damage did I create? If a higher pH causes extraction of tannins and the such, what does going below the recommended 4.8 minnimum mark do for your sparge? What is the recommened technique for adding the typical 88% lactic acid to your sparge water to reduce its pH? Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Home Brewery 32 miles west of JR Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:20:00 -0500 (EST) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Hey, now... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Hey, now folks! Let's lighten up. Things have been getting a wee bit personal lately. This any way to enter 2000? Please: if you wouldn't say it to one's face, don't say it in on the Digest. It just lessens it for us all... - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock/ "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:23:07 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: kegging "Dan Michael" <dmichael at avuhsd.k12.ca.us> writes: > I am about to experience my first kegging experience. >1. when I prime my beer and put it into the keg > should I give it a blast of co2, > how much? I like to purge the keg in a non-anal fashion by hooking the CO2 up to the beer out fitting and just flush it from the bottom up that way. I us fairly low pressure so I get a minimum of turbulence in the keg and a minimum of mixing. I like to think that I'm pushing all the sir out from the bottom. Of course it isn't perfect. If I am being anal, I fill the keg with water, seal it and push the water out with CO2. Now I have a sealed keg full of CO2. Then I fill it from the keg that I've cleverly used as a secondary by pushing it with CO2. However, before you prime you keg, read on. >2. after it has conditioned >what do I do to drink it. >(It's a english pale ale) >What is forced carbonantion, do I do that? >or do I attach co2 and drink, >This process I am unclear about. I never prime my kegs. I just carbonate with the CO2 from the tank. That way I have no (or little) sediment, so I can transport the keg. It also adds no additional alcohol from the priming - that's good in my mind. If I'm in no hurry, I just attach the gas at maybe 10 psi (at serving temp for an English ale, 52-55F) and wait a few days or a week. I check the carbonation level by dropping the pressure to a couple psi or so and try a bit. I lower the pressure so the beer doesn't decarbonate on serving so I can check more accurately. When I'm in a hurry, I turn the pressure way up to 30 psi or even more and shake. Over time I've learned from the rate of gas flow how long to do this. I keep turning the pressure down and listening. This works well even for higher carbonated styles like pilsners. Since they are colder, the CO2 goes in faster. Here is where I've often been anal about purging the keg. I've gone from secondary to carbonated beer in less than an hour. And, to repeat, I get fine bubbles and great head retention. Often I seal the secondary keg before the fermentation is quite over and then transfer carbonated beer in a closed system to a purged and sealed serving keg. And sometimew when I'm being lazy and know that I'm not going to move the keg, I just seal up the secondary and leave the beer there the whole time. I might not do this if the beer is going to be on for a long time. In that case, I like to get rid of the sediment to avoid yeast autolysis. > >What is the best way > I am having trouble getting > the liquid and gas fittings off >to replace the o-rings and sanitize I use ball locks, but there are tools made for pin locks. You can just cut slots in sockets. I sterilize in a pressure cooker after I've disassembled and cleaned the fittings. There are parts that you can't get to. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 07:01:21 -0500 From: dleavitt at sescva.esc.edu (Darrell Leavitt) Subject: Hats of to Whitelabs WLP500 Trappist Ale Yeast! I recently brewed a high gravity Trappist Ale, from the slurry from a previous batch of "Trappist Light" (is there really such a thing?), which came out at 3.78 ABW, and I was pleasantly surprised that it had fermented out all/ nearly all the way. I had prepared a rehydrated packet of Mountmel- /// I mean Montrachet/// wine yeast as I transferred into the secondary, just in case the gravity was too high...I wasn 't interested in having a 'cloyingly sweet' brew (as others on this list have previously referred to such "mistakes"),....but I did not have to use it as the final gravity HAD come down to 1.01! I was very pleasantly surprised, and therefore wish to say : Hats off to Whitelabs wlp500! That's one heck of a yeast! Now I will present the recipe, so that those here who know lots more than me might comment upon the technique, ingredients, or my surprise: 3 gallons of water into pot (20 qt kettle, so I usually have to do a partial boil, and at times add water to the carboy after chillin') Strike temp around 160 F Took temp up to 148 F for 60 minutes beta rest Took temp up to 158 F for alpha rest INgredients included: 8 lb Franco-Belgian Pils (from North Country Malt Supply) 4 lb Halcyon 1/8 cup Black Malt 1/2 lb Brown sugar (in the boil) 1/4 lb Wheat DME (in the boil) 4 oz Malto-dextrin (in the boil) [I had no dextrin malt and wanted to increase the body some way..] Recirculated until somewhat clear (I am never sure just how ling to keep doing this...ie until all of the little "floaties" as I call them disappear, or just until most of them do) Sparged with about 3 1/2 gallons 170 (about) F water. used 1 oz Northern Brewer at start of boil. 1 oz Fuggles at 30 1 oz Saaz at 15 hops were 8.6, 4.5, and 3.4 % respectively. The first runnings were 1.15 The original gravity, 1.095, after adding about 3/4 gallon of water to the carboy (all I could get in without risking blow over), was the reason that I was both concerned and later pleased with the performance of the yeast. I pitched slurry (about 1 1/2 - 2 inches thick from a 1/2 gallon growler)..I suppose that this is about 400-500 ml? I tried to keep, and was succesful, the temp between 160 and 164 F. I named this batch "Coachmen's Brew", after the description of a Trappist Double in one of Papazian's books...but I wonder if the alc content (maybe nearly 9 percent) should qualify it as a Tripple?) I tasted it as it went into the secondary and while the alc was evident, to me it did not overwhelm the wonderful flavor of the Trappist yeast... I will bottle this in 12 oz, rather than 16 oz bottles due to the gravity of tthe situation...sure wish I had 6 or 8 oz bottles. Any comments upon the recipe, or the technique would be greatly appreciated. I have few brewers near me so a lot of what I do is without much "guidance"...and by the way I did not take the pH....usually I do, but didn't this time. ..Darrell <Terminally INtermediate Home-brewer> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:40:14 -0500 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: munich and low extraction It seems that the general thoughts on German Munich malts are that they perform slightly less impressively that normal base malts. I also have read that people like to use a low temperature mash (<152F) or multi-rest mash. If I mashed at 154 to 156F using a single infusion and my normal water-grist ratio of about 1 qt/lb, would these numbers cause me troubles when compared to HBD experience with Weyermanns dark munich? Thanks for any info. Happy Holidays. Pete Czerpak Albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:49:08 -0700 (MST) From: jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: No future I bleleive the jackson belgian beer book can be found at the vanberg and dewulf web site. > From: "Ken Schramm" <schramk at resa.net> > Subject: Enough already, Dave > > OK, I've sat by and read enough of Dave Burley's commentaries that > stray far from the subject and berate others. Dave, your comments come > across to me as obnoxious, condescending and rude. But hey at least they make us think and question. :-) And as always page down. > > Dave, the general public is suspicious of capitalism, the chemical > industry, the car companies and the government for one reason: > we have been burned. Yea, I think communism or socialism wouldbe way better (it's a joke) > Hooker Chemical, Dioxin in our fish, Thalidomide, Car companies Actually thalidomide was only a problem in Europe. Because of FDA stuff it never got approved here. and even now getting it approved for cancer treatment has been a real pain. check pubmed for information and sited sources. > > The way it seems to me is that humans have a history of terribly > irresponsible use of this planet. If we can look back at 7000 years of > mass extinctions and environmental devastation and not feel that we > need to look at changing some of our behavior patterns (like starting to Well to look at it in a totally nihlistic way, humans have only been in existance for a blip in the time continuum (unless of course you are a creationist) so BFD if we last another few years and die. The futures uncertain and the end is always near. Jim Liddil North Haven, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:00:57 +0100 From: Fredrik Stahl <Fredrik.Stahl at math.umu.se> Subject: Re: German Beer Sorry, I am a bit behind on my HBD reading. I just had to comment on Jack's question on German Beers in HBD #3190: >She liked Wurzburger Hofbrau Pilsner but could not find the brewery when she >was in Wurzburg. Anyone know where it is? And what is the connection between >this and the Hofbrau Haus. I've visited Wuerzburger Hofbraeu twice, the last time was this summer. It is located in the outskirts of Wuerzburg (surprise!), but as far as I remember it is a bit hard to find. I think it is on the eastern side of the river Main. It is not a very exciting visit, the brewery being very high-tech, so there's mostly closed systems with stainless equipment and machinery. Visiting breweries in Bamberg is much more fun... I don't care very much for their Pilsner, though it's a decent "eurolager", I guess. They make one of the best hefeweizens though, Julius Echter, IMO. It varies a bit, but it's wonderful at its best. Also, you must try their "1643" if you get the chance. It's a well-hopped pilsener with wonderful hop aromas and a big round maltiness. Yum! On the other hand, don't forget to sample the delicious Franken wines while you are there. There is nothing like a good Spaetlese trocken from Franken! /Fredrik Stahl, Sweden Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:58:09 -0600 From: "Stephen and Carolyn Ross" <rosses at sprint.ca> Subject: priming kegs and RIMS heating Hi beer lovers, Dan Michael" <dmichael at avuhsd.k12.ca.us> asks about priming his kegs. I have never primed my kegs, so I can't do a comparison between primed and force carbonated kegs. But I sure enjoy hassle free consistent carbonation -what a change from bottling! The only reason I would not force carbonate is if I were to attempt a "cask" conditioned ale in my SS cornys- an attempt that would be a tad oxymoronic perhaps, but still fun to do. CO2 is so cheap and force priming with a regulator gives consistent levels of carbonation and minimizes sediment. YMMV. Also, there is no waiting period. I can dispense beer almost immediately if I'm willing to agitate the keg, or the next morning (beer for breakfast!) if I'm feeling lazy. For something completely different, I am attempting to connect my email program to my RIMS so I can heat the mash with flames from the HBD. I'm sure it would cut my energy costs substantially, and it appears to be a self-renewing sustainable resource... cheers! Stephen Ross Saskatoon, SK "Vitae sine cerevesiae sugat." Return to table of contents
Date: 05 Jan 2000 10:52:02 -0500 From: RCAYOT at solutia.com Subject: GM foods, Safety, Early Racking I tried to stay out of the GM food discussion, but I just can't! The con-GM food argument has gone "prove to me it is safe" well, has anyone EVER proven anything SAFE? I think not! Beer, is it SAFE? I think not! Think of all the DUI accidents caused by Beer! Come on folks, to say that GM foods are not good, just look at many poorer parts of the world, they still use DDT to control pests! Now some would think that the judicious use of pesticides is preferable to the "Dangerous Practice" of inserting a gene for the BT protein that makes catepillars get diarhea! Personally, I believe there are so many other things that can and do go wrong with our food supply that we don't know about, the worry over GM foods is really hype! As for the Bovine Growth Hormone (BGH), a natural hormone that exists in milk. How can one object that it is not safe? I suppose thqt if you drink two glasses of milk a day instead of one you would get twice as much BGH, is that cause for alarm? Should we limit the amount of milk we drink because of the naturally occuring BGH? The REAL concern about BGH was the increased use of antibiotics because cows treated with BGH tended to get SLIGHTLY more teat irritation. How much more antibiotics? Are they safe? Are antibiotics used by others in the food industry? We've had that discussion.... Look I don't give a rats ass about the introduction of GM foods, they help agribusiness, make our food more bland and uniform, and make money for investors. On the other hand, american farmers are being shut out of European markets so the French and others can subsidize thier inefficient farms to preserve a way of life in rural France. which is, I guess something they can do if they choose, but PLEEAASSEEE don't believe that the hype spewed by the opponents of GM foods are in it for anything more altruistic that the makerrs of the GM products! Nobody has a clean motive here, certainly not one that is looking out for YOUR health! (A bit cynical no?). No wfor the beer content: I have used the early racking practice often, I don't have any quantitative data on the subject. I think the benefit of trub during fermentation can be overcome with oxygenation if using a high quality all grain wort. I think it may be especially beneficial if you are re-pitching yeast that has not been washed, drawn off from a cylindroconical in layers etc. The dead yeast, trub etc that can be carried into the beer with the wort, and the pitching yeast will settle fairly rapidly. By transfering the beer of the sediment early, you can leave behind a lot of garbage, and carry over only the active yeast that reamians in suspension. This will also help clean up the yeast for the next pitching etc. Usual problems with the practice might be contamination and aeration which can be guarded against using simple precautions. Roger Ayotte Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:03:39 -0800 From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <ferment at flash.net> Subject: Co2 /Nitrogen mix MIKE BRANAM writes about using CO2 and Nitrogen. I have checked into this with the gas supplier that supplies a local British style pub that pours about 15 English ales, Guinness etc. They push ALL their beers with the same Co2 and Nitrogen mix. The mix does not make any difference (carbonation level) to the ales such as Bass and Fullers that use a standard tap. As a matter of fact they come out appropriately low in carbonation with a fairly high head pressure. The reason I was told they use the mix was so that they can use a higher pressure without overly carbonating the beer. Bartenders like to have the beer come out sufficiently fast so it doesn't take forever to pour a pint. Nitrogen does not go into solution. Further, I was told by the distributor that supplies the gas; it requires a special valve that mixes the gas. This valve has a dip tube that goes to the bottom of the cylinder. Nitrogen and Co2 are of different weights and one settles to the bottom - I think Co2. Thus if you could find a gas supplier that is willing to put both gasses in the same cylinder (they don't do this), and used a standard valve, the gasses would not come out in a mix. The actual dispensing valve is what creates the turbulence that cases the Guinness effect. I have seen several clubs with this type of tap at the S. Cal Homebrew fest. I don't think they were using any nitrogen to push the beer. I once tried to simply push a stout with pure nitrogen and noticed no difference at first. The beer was first carbonated with a Co2 cylinder. But when the keg got low, the beer actually started to go flat! Don Van Valkenburg www.steinfillers.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:02:31 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Fermentation Temperature From: Doug.A.Mccullough at bridge.bellsouth.com >...I taped a digital thermometer to the outside >of the fermenter with the metal probe resting against the outside of the >stainless fermenter... I did the same thing to a glass fermenter, but used a bunge cord instead of tape. >I am finding that fermentation significantly increases the wort temperature. Yes, that surprised me at how much 5 - 10 F over what I previously thought my fermentations were. I first began to notice this when I purchased a couple of those stick on chemical thermometers, which by the way, are accurate, or at least close to the digital thermometer to within 1 to 1.5 F. I think this has improved my beers by a noticeable amount. >...For example, take my oatmeal stout... Great! Send it to me right away :^) ======== News flash! - This has not been confirmed yet, but I just discovered what may be a handy carboy drier/drainer. I have seen a carboy placed upside down onto a corny keg with the lid removed. The keg was the type with rubber covering the whole top, like most that are around. I will have to try this and see if it works as well as it looks. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu http://members.xoom.com/rlabor/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:07:49 -0500 From: Michael Kitt <mkitt at mnsinc.com> Subject: re: Old Peculier recipe Here's my Old Peculier recipe. My father-in-law, Roy, is from Harrogate, Yorkshire. He says it tastes like the original. 6 lb Light extract 1/2 lb Chocolate malt 1/2 lb Roasted barley 1 lb Turbinado sugar 4 oz Unsulphured molasses (added late in the boil) 1 1/2 oz Fuggles hops pellets (4.8% a.a.) - 60 minutes 1 pk London Ale Yeast - Wyeast 1318 2 oz Lactose (boiled in water and added to secondary during racking from primary) Steep grains in water at 155 degrees F. for 30 minutes. Bring wort to boil, then add extract, sugar, hops. Boil for 45 minutes, then add molasses (or treacle if you can find it). Boil another 15 minutes. Cool. Pitch yeast, etc. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:49:23 -0500 From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca> Subject: ok, I lied... Hi all, Ok it turns out that wasn't my last post on the subject. Sorry, but there was an article in the Toronto Globe and Mail (front page) yesterday that was just too interesting. Apparently a nonapproved Monsanto gm seed was accidentally crossed with an approved one, then sold to Canadian farmers, and planted by at least two farmers before anyone realised. They then had to convince farmers to return the seed and/or plow the crop. One farmer refused and it took time to convince him. When they weighed all the seed they got back, it turns out not all of it was returned. Monsanto says the discrepancies (of 1,000s of lbs of seed) were due to 'weighing error' rather than missing seed. They then dumped all this seed in land fill (the article didn't say whether they did anything to prevent it from growing and spreading first). The government and Monsanto say the seed isn't dangerous, but, then, as Ken Schramm pointed out yesterday, they would say that wouldn't they? Robin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 14:08:30 -0500 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Beer Gas MIKE BRANAM writes: > > > > Hi guys, > > I have a draft system at my house and have been using it for years. I > have recently been kegging my own homebrew and using the draft system. > I have been hearing alot about CO2/Nitrogen mix like they use for > Guinness Stout. Will that work with my regulator, faucet, and CO2 > tank. Will it make a difference in other beers like New Castle or > Bass. > > Mike I recently got a 20 lb. tank of beer gas (mixture of N2 and CO2). Nitrogen tanks are used for beer gas. They differ from CO2 tanks in that they have a threaded female fitting at the top of the tank. This makes the female fitting on the CO2 regulator incompatible. You can still use your CO2 regulator if you buy an adpater for about $10. I got mine where I bought the beer gas--Holox. I traded in my 20 lb. CO2 tank for the Nitrogen tank filled with beer gas. I think the beer gas cost about $18. You'd be better off using a Guinness style faucet. It has a small stainless disc with four pin holes through which the beer is forced to flow. Apparently, this is what foces the N2 into soln to whip up the Guinness head we all know and love. Other beers may benefit from the use of beer gas. Many commercial draft systems, especially long draw, use beer gas (or at least some measure of N2) because the increased operating pressures required to push beer to the tap would overcarbonate the beer if CO2 alone were used. It also, as we know, increases head retention and gives a certain smoothness to mouthfeel. Rick Foote Georgia Yankee Whistle Pig Brewery Return to table of contents
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