HOMEBREW Digest #3221 Fri 14 January 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: how do you measure the last runnings? ("Houseman, David L")
  Drinking and brewing. ("Devon Williams")
  Wooden Bung Removal (cdwood)
  re: makin' hot sauce (Mark Tumarkin)
  cheap kegs for boilers (hal)
  Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils (bkhegemann)
  hot water heater for hot liquor tank (Tombrau)
  Propylene Glycol ("Sean Richens")
  RIMS elements (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Please Don't Ask me Dave ("Phil & Jill Yates")
   (Tony Barnsley)
  Handling - Schmidling style ("Donald D. Lake")
  Re: Sears Zone ("Brian Dixon")
  400+ year old beers, available in the US (Mark Bunster)
  Re:Capping Twist-off Bottles/Low extraction (MaltHound)
  CounterPhil (Dan Listermann)
  Re: Lager Brewers: Request for critique and tips (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Capping Twist-off Bottles (Jeff Renner)
  blow-off scum ("Alan Meeker")
  No-Sparge Tannins ("Paul Niebergall")
  Pucker Power! How Many Lemons? ("Lynn & Mike Key")
  How much of an OG is Unfermentable? ("H. Dowda")
  Thanks for the suggestions ("Russ Hobaugh")
  Guinness Bubbles ("Brauner, Shane")
  line length ("Paul Niebergall")
  Loss of wort due to hops (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com>
  mash efficiency (Marc Sedam)
  mash efficiency, part deux (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Microwaving to sterilize ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re:  Pewter, lead, and care instructions ("Timmons, Frank")
  Re: Shipping and Handling (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Help needed on All Grain ("Nigel Porter")
  Plus shipping and handling (Some Guy)
  Re: Poor All-Grain Extraction ("Patrick Flahie")
  sanitizers (ALABREW)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:47:05 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Re: how do you measure the last runnings? Jeff says "I take a sample and stop the flow for the few minutes it takes me to cool the sample in a cold water bath or a convenient snowbank. Takes about 4-5 minutes." Using some very small diameter copper tubing from the hardware store (maybe 3/16? OD) I made a small immersion chiller for a small pan to cool samples quickly for testing. Just connect to a quick disconnect to a hose that you probably have handy for cooling later anyway. Coiled it flat so that it is covered by the volume of a hydrometer. Works like a champ. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:50:09 EST From: "Devon Williams" <dawg_01 at hotmail.com> Subject: Drinking and brewing. Calvin Perilloux wrote: <This will sound blasphemous, but I also found that if I didn't drink any homebrew (or any brew) while brewing, it seemed to speed things up. I'd estimate I need to add about 15-20 minutes for each beer I drank during the session. (Relax and don't worry do not apply to mid-week mashing sessions.)> I totally agree with you about the cost of drinking while brewing on my overall brewing time. My brother and I usually begin brewing around noon, and the consumption usually begins at about 12:01... We were brewing for about 6+ hours when doing this. For one recent brew session, we began at about 8am. Not wanting to appear too glutinous, we drank coffee instead of homebrew. Wow! we were finished and cleaning up in less than five hours!!!! It's amazing what a clear head will do for you! Devon Devon Williams Beer Belly Brothers Brewing Watkinsville, GA, USA ooooo |..oo=| |...o | |...| | |...|=| |___| ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:06:37 -0500 From: cdwood at lexmark.com Subject: Wooden Bung Removal Hey all, I got given to me a 1/4 keg with a wooden bung in the side. How is the best way to get it out and where can I get a new bung? Thanks & Happy Brew Year!! Curt Member of BOCK (Brewers of Central Kentucky) Just a long drive down I-75 from Jeff Renner Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:27:39 -0500 From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: makin' hot sauce Brett Morrow writes: >Has anyone here tried making hot sauce? Any info would be helpful--it seems very >straight forward, but if someone has tried it and has any suggestions, I'm all ears! Has anyone tried making hot sauce? You didn't expect a no answer from this crowd, did you? And you say any info would be helpful, and ask for suggestions - well, you need to narrow it down a bit. Start with what kind of hot sauce you want to make, there's a world of different styles. A typical Louisiana tabasco sauce? Take 2-3 lbs cayennes & tobasco chiles, chop finely, combine with 3-4 cups of white vinegar in a non-reactive pot heat till just below boiling, hold at this temp for 5 minutes or so, add 2 teaspoons of salt and purree in a blender till finely chopped. Pour through a strainer, bottle, and age for 3 weeks to 3 years. Or maybe your taste runs to Mexican salsas - take 5 or 6 large ripe tomatoes, a couple of large garlic cloves, a large red onion, a few big sprigs of fresh cilantro, an avocado or two, a little salt & pepper to taste, maybe a tablespoon of olive oil, a few teaspoons of fresh lime juice, and a bunch of peppers - try jalapenos and habaneros, maybe some serranos, finely chop everything and mix in a bowl, eat immediately. Or maybe you want to try some of the less known styles from around the world - an African pili pili, or a blistering Thai sauce, or, or, or??? Depends on what you want. But the best hot sauces (or at least my favorites) are the Caribbean style sauces, rich with tropical fruits, rum, and all the heat of the sub-tropical sun. Try this one, I call it Apocalypso. Start with 15 or 20 yellow-orange scotch bonnets (an Island variant of the Habanero, or just use Habs if you can't get Scotch Bonnets - it'll be same same) 5 or 6 hot red peppers - try jalapenos, thais, bird peppers, etc 1 cup yellow onion 2 cups mango or papaya 3-4 garlic cloves 1/2 piece fresh ginger root 2 teaspoons ground dry mustard 2 tablespoons fresh lime juice 1 cup white vinegar 1/4 cup medium dark island rum Stem & seed the peppers, remember most of the heat is in the seeds and inner membranes so use just seeds as desired for heat level. No, forget I said that, just throw away the stems and use the rest - you did say you wanted hot sauce, didn't you? Combine liquid ingredients in non-reactive pot and bring to a boil, simmer for 5 minutes. Meanwhile, put all other ingredients into food processor and chop finely. Add the liquid and puree lightly. You'll end up with a beautiful golden orange sauce flecked with red from the red peppers. Bottle and keep refrigerated, should last 2-3 months - if you don't use it up before that! Use as a marinade, in soups, on fish, eggs, whatever. Just make sure you keep plenty of good homebrew on hand - homebrew & hot sauce, goes great with almost anything! Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, Fl Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:22:11 -0600 From: hal <hwarrick at springnet1.com> Subject: cheap kegs for boilers A recent trip to drop off alum. cans has shown me that you can buy kegs, 7.5 and 16 gal. for a grand total of $15.00 each at your nearest recycler. Clean to ! Hal So far from master Jeff's domain, yet still in our backyard. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:38:31 -0600 From: bkhegemann at computerland.net Subject: Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils Anyone have any experience with this yeast? I try to do a couple or three lagers each winter when the weather is at its coldest here in mid-Missouri. Unfortunately the homebrew store didn't have Wyeast 2206 in stock so I came home with the Czech Pils yeast, a new one for me. My main concern is how this yeast behaves at warmer (56-60F) temps. I don't have a brew fridge so my lager primary fermentations down in the cellar are usually in the mid to upper 50s, particularly this year with the mild weather. Thoughts/suggestions?? Thanks! -Brad Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:43:16 EST From: Tombrau at aol.com Subject: hot water heater for hot liquor tank Wort Brothers: I am just a simple infusion guy and always on the prowl to simplify my brew day. Upon inspection, I find my home water heater thermostat goes to 170f. That's strike water temp in my book. Is there a reason I should not turn the thermostat to 170f the night before I brew (rising early to beat the family to the scalding surprise) and using this to dough in and sparge with? I picture running an insulated copper pipe in the ceiling from the hot water heater to a valve above my mash tun (no more lifting 10g of 170f water 6' in the air, yippee). It would be great, being done doughing in as coffee is finishing, which is usually about 10 minutes after I wake up. This would shave a heavy hour off of brew day. I have always generated 20g of ro water for brew day and would, with my new, back and time saving design, have to make Orlando City water suitable in another way. I plan on putting a filter going into the water heater. Ro obviously won't work because it is so slow. What should I look for in a "faster" filter? I must plead water stupid. Next I want to convert a dishwasher to a keg/carboy/kettle/tun cleaner, specialized cip jets and all. Any help on the above will be appreciated. Cheers Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:57:48 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Propylene Glycol Kraig's question about propylene glycol is worth asking. Industrially, propylene glycol is used as a "non"-toxic substitute for the somewhat toxic ethylene glycol. It is regularly used as a flavour carrier in such things as flavour extracts like you buy at the grocery store. I wouldn't worry a LOT about using a bottle of flavoring in a beer, but I wouldn't use it in every batch. I would definitely avoid genetically modified propylene glycol, however. Sean Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 22:41:22 -0800 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: RIMS elements I wanted to boost my RIMS power element from its current value of 4500 W (240V value) to 5000 or even 6000. Experiments with my last batch suggest to me that I have the flow rate for 6000/4 to be safe. I have read here in the past the suggestion to use the "Water Wizard" elements from Grainger. However my heating chamber is ~16.5" long, just enough for the 4500 W element. Can these elements be refolded without breaking/ruining the coating? Any other sources for a short but reasonably low watt density element >4.5K? Last and pretty much least, any source for *inexpensive* 1.5" copper pipe and fittings? My last chamber cost me at least $60! - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:36:11 +1100 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Please Don't Ask me Dave Dave Burley asks of me a question: >Phil can you enlighten us on this apparent >innovation? This was in regard to counter pressure fillers. I have to advise you Dave that since Dan Listermann stole my good name and preceded to make a fortune with my good ideas, I have been in no mood at all to discuss the matter. The royalties he pays me are appalling! Thanking You For Your Enquiry Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:38:58 -0000 From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk> Subject: David G. Humes Wrote >I have heard of some brewers sparging hops to recover >Otherwise lost extract. On the homebrewing scale, I >see no reason to do this. Well If you are going to top off the fermenter, and You are already on the high side of the recipes calculated OG then why not. I will calculate the amount of water I would add to the fermenter to hit my desired OG and then sparge the hops with that amount of hot water. >There's too much risk of extracting undesirable compounds. No problems for me as always YMMV >It's better to just accept the loss and adjust the recipe accordingly. Better? I adjust the recipe as per Noonan, but occasionally my system surprises me, with a better than expected extract. Something else I do is to spare the hops and then save that wort for starters / or priming the batch. - -- The Scurrilous Aleman (Blackpool, Lancs, UK) Reply To Aleman At brewmaster Dot demon Dot co Dot uk Remembering to remove the Leave instructions for UK Homebrew this time Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:07:52 -0500 From: "Donald D. Lake" <dake at gdi.net> Subject: Handling - Schmidling style Businesses that charge "handling" fees have been a sore spot for me for some time. I'll gladly pay for shipping because I affect that based upon my proximity to the vendor. But it's the vendor's job to handle it. <When we ship a mill, there is a box, packing material and the labor involved> <that must be included in the cost of the product.> Jack, there are many misc. costs to running a business and they're called "overhead". When I go to Wal-Mart to purchase a fishing rod they don't charge me a "stocking fee" or a "display fee" although both are real costs of operating a retail store. That's a cost of doing business that's recaptured in your margin. <If we included this in the base price, then dealers who pick up at our factory> <would be paying for something they do not recieve or want.> Nice try, but there is a distinct difference between buying retail and buying wholesale. I would hope that the dealer that picks up at your factory gets a better price than Joe Shlub who buys one item mail order. The charging of handling fees is a deceptive trade practice. Let's all be consumer warriors and avoid doing ordering from business that do it. Don Lake Lake Water Brewery (wholly-owned subsidiary of Canal Water Beverages, Inc.) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:29:15 -0800 From: "Brian Dixon" <briandixon at home.com> Subject: Re: Sears Zone I'll keep this very short ... (let's talk about brewing!) [snip] He wants 40% calories from protein and 30% each from fats and carbohydrates. [snip] Minor correction. That's 40% from carbohydrates and 30% from the others. You are still eating 'mostly carbs' on the Zone diet. And for success ... my bodyfat level is now 15% as predicted by Dr. Sears. I lost 2 lbs per week for a total of almost 70 lbs weight loss. I'm the worst skeptic too, but it works and my other studies have shown it to be correct nutritionally. So regardless of the underlying mechanism, it works and is ok. I 'cheat' in some form every day, but 80% of my eating follows the rules and my weight stays the same (plus or minus about 2 lbs) ... which is more than I can say about any other way of eating I've ever tried. Brian PS: Sorry for continuing this thread ... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:45:49 -0500 From: Mark Bunster <mbunster at saturn.vcu.edu> Subject: 400+ year old beers, available in the US Hi there. A friend of mine wants to have a party on Feb. 29th, which will be the first leap day in a year ending in zero in 400 years. (The last was Feb 29 1600; the next Feb 29 2400). To celebrate, he'd ideally like to find a keg of beer brewed essentially the same way it was in 1600. Weizens are out on personal taste, and a keg of Corsendonk might insure that 60 people spend the night at his house, but otherwise anything that you can get in the Mid-Atlantic is good. A keg is not a requirement, although that's the ideal. I know of several breweries still active that predate 1600, but I can't think of any that are readily available in quantity in the Virginia area. Can you? Thanks--private replies are welcome. List replies if you feel it's interesting enough... M Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:48:15 EST From: MaltHound at aol.com Subject: Re:Capping Twist-off Bottles/Low extraction In HomeBurley Digest #3219 << "Patrick Flahie" <flahiepa at msu.edu> asks: "...Although standard cappers and caps may not be suited for these purposes, is there any method of capping these bottles? I would hate to see them returned for a mere 10 cents and never be heard from again." Sure. You can definitely cap twist off bottles with a few minor caveats. Since they are typically thinner than the non-twistoff type bottles you will want to try and find the right kind of caps. Bottle caps made for twist off applications are made from slightly thinner metal and can be crimped with less force on the capper. Many HB supply shops carry commercial over-run bottle caps. If you can find some with the twist-off arrow marks on the sides, these are the ones you want. You will also want to use a bench style capper on twist offs vs. the two-handled lever style. Use only enough pressure on the capper to seat and crimp the cap. One note, even when you crimp the right type of cap on a twist off bottle, you probably won't be able to twist them off. The capper that the big-boys use to allow them to twist-off makes the sides of the cap engage the threads on the bottle lip. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Also, in the same issue, "Brian Dixon" <briandixon at home.com> in his reply to Russ Hobaugh" <Russ_Hobaugh at erm.com> Re: Help needed on All Grain gives a pretty good analysis of the possible causes of Russ's low all-grain extraction rates. However, near the end of his post he slips in this questionable advice: "5. Other. The Zapap thing will get you by, but is not the best choice for efficiency. Keep your bucket with the spigot on it and go buy a Phil's Phalse bottom (about $13) and you'll see a vast improvement..." While the Listermann Phalse Bottom is undoubtedly a worthwhile device, and the Zapap is not the most elegant mashing system, I fail to see why it would necessarily cause decreased extraction from a mash with all other variables being equal. There is nothing intrinsically inefficient with a Zapap design. Some people point to the large space below the false bottom (inner bucket) as a source of inefficiency, but that shouldn't be the case. By the end of the sparge, the only thing that will be left behind is a relatively small volume of very low gravity (tannin ridden?) wort. If you sparge to the oft quoted 1.010 "magic" gravity and there is 2 quarts of space under false bottom, that equates to a potential "loss" of .005 gravity points or only a difference of .001 points in a 5 gallon wort. In reality, that same wort would be left behind in the grain bed if the false bottom were closer to the bottom of the bucket. If you really wanted an additional quart or two of those evil last runnings in your kettle it would seem simple enough to heat more hot liquor and just sparge a bit longer. I think the "Zapaps are inefficient" momily can be traced to the trends that many of us experienced as beginning brewers using Zapaps. As we became more experienced we tended to make or buy different, cooler, more extravagant mash tun devices. Our efficiencies increased, but they may well have increased had we stayed with the old equipment and simply improved our techniques. For what it's worth, my vote is that the most probable cause of Russ's low extraction is an incomplete grain crush. QDA!!! It's my *opinion* based on my own personal experience that it is impossible to overcrush malt when using a roller mill. Unless you use a flour grinder (ie Corona), stuck mashes are due to lautering process not milling. Now excess tannin extraction due to over crushing... that's a whole 'nother thread! Regards, Fred Wills Cheerfully abusing my grain husks in Londonderry, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:00:13 -0500 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: CounterPhil Dave Burley (Dave_Burley at compuserve.com) asks about our counter pressure filler - the CounterPhil: <I also saw a recent CP bottle Philler from Listerman, I believe, in which the beer is siphoned ( and thus the feeder keg must be elevated) under a pressure head. This may have the same effect, but I couldn't really tell from the explanation. Phil can you enlighten us on this apparent innovation?> The CounterPhil uses three things to smooth the flow into bottles and reduce steps for counter pressure filling. It uses the syphon method of moving the beer instead of the usual pressure differential method which requires a reduction in pressure in the bottle to move the beer and a greater likelyhood for foaming. The syphon method requires that the keg be higher than the bottle. It maintains the exact same pressure in the bottle as the pressure in the keg. On a practical level the beer only "feels" movement with no reduction in pressure. A three way valve and a simple check valve allow the CounterPhil to be operated with about half the number of steps required to operate a conventional counterpressure filler. No third hand or religious ritual required. This speeds the learing curve ( this learning curve can be messy) and greatly reduces the opportunity for errors ( also messy ). Thanks for asking! Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com 72723.1707 at compuserve,com PS Phil is our 18 year old son who only works here when he is desperate for money. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:49:52 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Lager Brewers: Request for critique and tips Guy (but presumably not Norine) Gregory <guyg at icehouse.net> asks: >Jeff, looking back, annually you tend to update folks on your current >thinking on CAP brewing...any new ideas for the millenium? Nothing different from maybe a year ago. I generally brew with ~22% coarse, degermed yellow cornmeal and 78% six-row (by weight, not extract). Target 1.048 OG. I generally mash in most of the six-row with low-sulfate water at either 104F or, if I'm being a little lazy, 144F. Then I mash the cornmeal with 1/3 of its weight six-row (the rest of it) at ~153F. I rest this a convenient amount of time, maybe 20-30 minutes, while the main mash rests a similar time at 104F if I'm doing that rest. Then I bring the cereal mash to a boil and boil 30 minutes or so, during which I boost the main mash from 104 to 144 with the burner and recirculation and rest it 20-30 minutes. Then I add the cereal mash to the main mash and, since this seldom brings it to 158F, I boost again to this and rest 20-30 minutes. Then I boost to 170F mashout, hold a short time, recirculate until clear and lauter. You can figure out how the timing works - you just try to have the main mash ready for boost from 144 at the same time the cereal mash is done boiling. However, I did a CACA (Classic American Cream Ale) with a single step infusion at 153 using flaked maize and six-row and this worked just fine. A little hazy but this settled out in the lagering period. I'm not at all sure a multi-step is necessary, but I like it because it's traditional, and I think the flavor may be superior. I first wort hop with noble hops, boil with Cluster to a target of low 30's IBUs, knowing that the fwh will contribute bitterness, too, and add a bit of noble hops at 15 minutes before castout. I probably end up mid to upper 30's IBUs. Immersion chill with recirulation through the hop bed to clarify, pitch lots of Ayinger lager yeast from Yeast Culture Kit Co, or another lager yeast if it isn't available. Ferment at 48-50, lager 6 weeks at 33F, force carbonate in keg. I don't need to give directions on what I do then, do I? BTW, I will be taking a 1/4 barrel to the MCAB II in St. Louis March 24-26. Southwest Airlines said I can bring it as baggage, although you never know if the folks at the counter will agree. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:01:26 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Capping Twist-off Bottles "Patrick Flahie" <flahiepa at msu.edu> writes: > >everything that I have read says that twist-off bottles can't be >used by homebrewers. Although standard cappers and caps may not be suited >for these purposes, is there any method of capping these bottles? I think this is one of the first bits of homebrewing wisdom I heard, at least 25 years ago, and accepted on the face of it. May have even repeated it. I think this makes it a mommily. The story was that you have to use a thinner gauge cap to crimp and seal properly. However, this past year I discovered that I had included a few screw cap bottles accidently, so I went ahead and filled and capped them. I found that I had to be a little more careful to get the cap straight, sometimes turning the bottle after crimping and recrimping to push the cap home all around. They held just fine. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:12:01 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: blow-off scum Joel Plutchak commented on Al K's experiments: - ---------------- I don't know if he did that experiment, but he did do and write up a comparison between using a blow-off method during primary fermentation versus not doing so. One can think of the blow-off method as similar to skimming-- the "scum" is removed in either case. I'm almost certain he found that it distinctly did make a difference in bitterness of the finished beer. (Comments, Al?) - ------------ -- I don't know the details of this experiment but if there is significant material expelled out the blow-off it will consist of more than simply the bitter and insoluble resinous "scum" that adheres to the top of the carboy. Just something to keep in mind when evaluating these results. Along these lines I have shifted to a half-assed "Pseudo-Burton Union" system when I have a ferment going with a yeast that likes to top crop. I got fed up with losing yeast through the blow off in the first 12-24 hours. Now I collect it in the same container I used for the starter and return it to the primary. -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:36:19 -0600 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: No-Sparge Tannins The discussion about tannin extraction has evolved into the topic of no-sparge or limited sparge beers. I have discussed this with several people off-line and a few posts are starting to appear in the HBD. Most people tend to agree that limiting the sparge process results in a beer with more "yummy malt flavor". Presumably, the no (or low) -sparge technique makes better beer because you maximize the extraction of various flavor components relative to the amount of water used. Which all makes perfect sense to me. Now here is the interesting part: Can you name a class of flavor components that would be maximized as a result of the no-sparge process?? That's right - TANNINS! How ironic especially in light of previous discussions on the subject. Just something to think about. Paul Niebergall Burns & McDonnell pnieb at burnsmcd.com "Illegitimis non carborundum" (New readers should be told that I was once a very frequent poster to the HBD. Most of what I have posted is worthless, but it does make me feel like a really important guy.) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:46:19 -0800 From: "Lynn & Mike Key" <flakeys at mindspring.com> Subject: Pucker Power! How Many Lemons? Planning to brew a partial mash lemon wheat beer. Haven't been able to find lemon extract so will instead use real lemons. How many lemons do I use for a 5.5 gal. batch of brew? Do I use just the juice or should I also throw in the rinds? Should I use lemon zest too? Do I add the lemons to the boiler or to the secondary? Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:44:13 -0800 (PST) From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> Subject: How much of an OG is Unfermentable? It is generally held that certain grains and adjuncts contribute to 'mouthfeel' by providing compounds which yeast will not ferment. These substances contribute to the gravity of a wort but are not 'fermented out' thereby resulting in a higher FG. Is there a 'list' of the non-fermentable gravity contribution of these grains/adjuncts? Huuummm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:06:41 -0500 From: "Russ Hobaugh" <Russ_Hobaugh at erm.com> Subject: Thanks for the suggestions Thank you to all who answered my post both privately and here on the hdb. It seems like my problem is mainly my water, and possibly the crush. I will work on those before my next batch. I did want to clarify about adding DME to distilled water. I was reading up about all grain before attempting, and this was in one of the books that I read. I don't remember the author or title, but according to him, if you added 1 tbs of DME/gallon to distilled water it became chemically perfect for mashing and sparging. According to ALL the responses I got, this is not even close to correct. So I have learned my lesson--I will run questionable practices by the experts of the hbd from now on. Thanks again for all the help. In the year that I have been brewing this forum has helped me go from straight extract to all grain. I have learned a great deal about brewing from all of you and am glad I found this forum. Now if we could just drop the diet topics and flame wars:) Russ Hobaugh Goob' Dog Brewery, Birdsboro PA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:14:19 -0600 From: "Brauner, Shane" <SBrauner at Central.UH.EDU> Subject: Guinness Bubbles Thought y'all might find this interesting.... - --Shane Houston, TX Text below taken from http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000111/sc/science_guinness_1.html Tuesday January 11 8:37 PM ET Bubbles in Guinness Do Go Down, Study Finds WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Australian scientists say they have answered a question that has plagued and entertained drinkers for generations -- why do the bubbles in a glass of Guinness appear to be falling to the bottom? They said computer simulation had settled the issue, and perhaps saved many a pint being sacrificed in the name of science. Clive Fletcher and his students at the University of New South Wales in Sydney found that most bubbles in a pint of the creamy stout do indeed rise, as bubbles should. But the liquid carrying these bubbles has nowhere to go once it reaches the top, so it flows back down the sides of the glass, taking smaller bubbles with it. Bubbles larger than 0.05 mm are able to resist. Fletcher's team said in a statement that they simulated the motion of the bubbles using Fluent computational fluid dynamics (CFD) software from Fluent Incorporated, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Aavid Thermal Technologies Inc., based in Concord, New Hampshire. Animation of the simulation is available at http:/www.fluent.com/news/pressrel/guinness/tsld001.htm. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:13:52 -0600 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: line length I have noticed that many of my posts bounce because of supposedly exceeding 80 characters in line length. Even though I put returns in the text way before I get to the 80th character. I have also set my e-mail program to limit the line length to only 70 characters, just to be sure. I am forced to arbitrarily trim the line lengths each time a post bounces, usually several iterations are required before the post is accepted. At first I thought this was a conspiracy to keep me from posting because although my posts are always well thought out and insightful, for some reason they are not always well received by the so-called expurts. Go figure. Anyway, I have also noticed that lately several posts appearing in recent editions of the HBD seem have limited line lengths (some of the posts are starting to look like newspaper columns). It appears as if others may be experiencing the same problems. Or am I just hallucinating again? Is anyone else out there encountering similar problems? Paul Niebergall Burns & McDonnell pnieb at burnsmcd.com "Illegitimis non carborundum" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:23:43 -0500 From: "Hampo, Richard (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com> Subject: Loss of wort due to hops Hi all, There is an alternative to losing lots of wort in the hops - use a hop bag. I use a hop bag for several reasons: First, I don't have to worry about my racking cane plugging from the hops since I just take them out after the wort is chilled. And second, I can "squish" the bag with my brewing spoon (sanitized) and get out quite a bit of wort trapped in the hops. Yes, I do lose some hopping efficiency but then everything is a trade off! I make the trade off in the direction of less clean up effort in almost all circumstances, and hop bags really work well for me. Brew on! Richard Hampo H&H Brewing Ltd. Livonia, Michigan 2.5 miles NE (as the crow flies) of the HBD server Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:33:18 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: mash efficiency First a small nit to pick... Paul Smith wrote... **Secondly, what is your milled grist like? If it's too coarse, you will not get as much out as you could, as gelatinization (the dissolution of the starch in the endosperm, so enzymes may "attack" the starch better) is simply not taking hold as much as with a finer grist, and you will not have as much "available" starch. Ideally, if looking at the flour, fine, coarse, and husk percentages in the grist, you want about 56% to be "fine," with only about 8% to be coarse (source, Kunze). "Coarse," "fine," etc., are measurements made with a sieve, but you can eyeball your grist and get an idea.** Gelatinization less of a dissolution as it is the physical action of a starch granule bursting. It requires more energy than simply placing starch in water. Imagine a ball packed with string and you get some idea of the physical structure of a starch granule. As starch is heated in water it swells and will eventually "burst" or melt at the appropriate temp (different for different starches) if a shear force is added. Most gelatinization is done in the malt house as the walls of the starch granules are broken down by enzymes (and are acted on by beta-amylase to some extent), but some does occur during the mash. One way to improve gelatinization is to mix the mash regularly. The physical shear created by mixing the mash will assist gelatinization. Sorry Paul, it's a minor point but I wanted to be sure everyone got exactly what you were driving at. Next topic: George mentioned the increase in dextrins through use of Munich or other highly kilned malts. This may explain why gravities drop more through use of Vienna malt instead of Munich. I also think that there's some type-III resistant starch in these higher kilned malts. A prof. up at Cornell is set up to analyze materials for their resistant starch content, but the assays cost $125/sample. I always thought this would result in some interesting findings, but with the demise of BT I can't think of another organization who might be interested in footing the bill for the tests. Not that they were necessarily interested, but I'm still in mourning... Maybe someone could genetically modify barley to allow the beta and alpha amylases to remain stable at higher temps. Then we could improve efficiencies through better gelatinization of the starch while retaining traditional methods. Any takers? ;-) Cheers! Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:41:14 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: mash efficiency, part deux I forgot to mention in the last post--use of distilled water to mash will likely result in a dearth of calcium. Ca is a required cofactor in enzymatic amylolysis (breakdown of starch). You need at least 50ppm of Ca in the mash to give enzymes the minerals they need to break down the mash. There is also likely a lack of trace minerals which are necessary for proper yeast growth and fermentation. Yeast need zinc, copper, manganese, magnesium, and assorted other bits o' minerals to work right. The solution? Try adding 2 tsp of calcium chloride to the mash along with 1/2 gallon of regular tap water (pre-boiled if that's important to you). The CaCl2 will ensure the proper calcium concentration and the tap water will solve the trace minerals issue. Brew on! Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:11:09 -0500 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Re: Microwaving to sterilize On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, John S Thompson asked about Microwaving to sterilize: >I have some petri dishes which I use for streaking out yeast. I was >wondering if a short blast in the microwave, say 5 to 10 seconds, would >sterilize a thin layer of wort/agar. I know Alan already responded stating that you can't and from what I know, he's on the money. But here's a well informed link regarding the possible use of microwaves for sterilization and the "microwave effect" just for information to interested parties. It just won't work in the home microwave without boiling and subsequently, making a mess ;-) http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/wjk/mwaves.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:56:21 -0700 From: "Timmons, Frank" <frank.timmons at honeywell.com> Subject: Re: Pewter, lead, and care instructions "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> writes: "I got off my duff and found the info for myself. Apparently modern pewter uses antimony in place of lead, so the issue is purely one of not tarnishing the metal by storing acidic foods or beverages for any length of time." Not to alarm anybody unnecessarily, but antimony is toxic in moderate quantities, according to the CRC handbook. Not as bad as lead, but still toxic. Any acidic liquid (beer is one) will leach metals into it. It's probably not any big deal, however. I do think I would wash it well, maybe with vinegar several times and rinse before using. My dad used to have a set of ceramic tankards with pewter tops. Why don't you get one of those if you're worried about bees getting in your beer? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:47:47 -0500 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Shipping and Handling I have to agree with Jack here. There are certain costs associated with packaging and shipping an item. You've got to pay the person who gets it off the shelf (or wherever) and puts it in the box. You've got to pay for packaging materials. Etc. These are not costs that are included in "manufacturing" the item. They are costs that are incurred in the process of providing a service to you -- that is, in fulfilling your order. A couple of years ago, I acted as the agent for a group of homebrewers, in that I purchased, packaged, and shipped some custom glassware. I did not charge for my time. But the cost of packing materials for 1 to 4 glasses was $4.50. Should I have averaged that to a cost of $2.25 per glass? Then the folks buying 1 glass would be undercharged and would be subsidized by the folks buying 4 glasses, who would be overcharged. No. It was more honest to say "packaging cost of $4.50 for up to 4 glasses." Yes, I was surprised at that cost. It was more than the price of a single glass ($3.25 with engraving). It was more than the cost of shipping a single glass ($4 by USPS Priority at that time). I no longer have the exact breakdown, but here's how they were packaged: In order to minimize breakage (1 glass broken out of over 120 shipped) I "double-boxed." In detail, each glass was wrapped in bubble wrap, and placed in a box (8x8x8 inches) that held 4 wrapped glasses snugly. If fewer than 4 glasses were ordered, the remainder of the box was filled with "peanuts." Then this box was placed in a larger box (12x12x12 inches), surrounded by a layer of "peanuts." In fact, those buying 4 glasses still underpaid slightly, since their shipments needed more bubblewrap than the smaller shipments. Per order, then, I used 1 12x12x12 box 1 8x8x8 box 1 cuft "peanuts" 2-8 sqft bubble wrap some packaging tape, marker, etc. It added up! Interestingly, a not insignificant portion of the packaging cost was "shipping & handling" to get the boxes & bubble wrap shipped TO ME! (I bought the peanuts locally, but even with shipping, it was cheaper to order the boxes & wrap from U-Line in Chicago.) Well, I've gone on much too long here. Thanks for bearing with me. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:57:26 -0000 From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: Help needed on All Grain >To unsubscribe email >list at ale.co.uk >with >leave uk-homebrew >in the message body. Tony - you're getting your UK & US digests mixed up <g> - --------------------------------------------------------------------- On the subject of Graham Wheeler recipes (and any others I use from books etc), I generally use the relative quantities of grains and hops and run the figures through my spreadsheet, to tweak the recipe to my setup. This normally works fine. Nigel Porter Guildford, Surrey - UK Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 14:38:08 -0500 (EST) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Plus shipping and handling Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Frankly, I'd rather see the "plus shipping and handling" than the alternative. If they don't surcharge the item for packaging, they'll bury it in the price. I see the differentiation as a savings since handling (a service) generally isn't taxable. I *DO* have a problem with those companies that don't disclose the shipping and handling at advertisement, leading you up the primrose path until ultimate discovery and disappointment, but Jack, as I recall, isn't one of these. (Why does it cost BMG about $2.60 to package and ship me EACH CD, though? Think they're making up for the discount price, I do...) - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:56:25 -0500 From: "Patrick Flahie" <flahiepa at msu.edu> Subject: Re: Poor All-Grain Extraction In HBD 3219, Jeff Renner and Brian Dixon both questioned Russ Hobaugh's addition of 1 tsp. of DME / gallon of distilled water in his all-grain batch. I can say that Russ is not the only one out in TV Land that uses this practice (effective or not). Ken Schwartz's presentation "Converting All-Grain Recipes to Extract / Partial Mash" (from the 1998 AHA Conference) suggests this practice as a no-fuss way to optimize water chemistry for mashing. It states that mashing and sparging are sensitive to certain characteristics of water, and the addition of 1 Tbsp. of DME per gallon of distilled water provides for the right conditions for mashing and sparging without fussing with acids, salts, or pH measurements. Since all-grain brewing is somewhat daunting to begin with, I made the choice to make it as simple as possible and follow Ken's tip. However, I can't really comment on its effects on my efficiency. If this water treatment practice is ineffective, are there any simple water tricks for those of us slowly working our way into all-grain brewing? If anyone's interested, a copy of Ken's presentation can be found at http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/. Patrick Flahie Jackson, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:24:32 -0600 From: ALABREW <alabrew at mindspring.com> Subject: sanitizers RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com> responded to my post about C&B's reply to the sanitiative effectiveness of B-Brite with "I appreciate the cost of FDA registration and understand why C&B would not pursue it, but my understanding from what was on HBD and a microbiolist at a major consumer bacteriacidal company, who is a homebrewer, is "it's a mild sanitizer" Is this like being "a little pregnant" It really sounds to me like an excellent experiment and article for the new and revised Zymurgy. Brew Your Own did an article on sanitizers awhile back but only compared Star San, BTF, and bleach. Don't know why they left out One Step and B-Brite - any ideas why, anyone??? - -- ALABREW Homebrewing Supplies http://www.mindspring.com/~alabrew Birmingham, AL Home Beer and Wine Making Specialists Return to table of contents
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