---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Greetings from 0.0 Rennerian (Jeff Renner)
  regarding Jeff Renners comments on carbonation ("jim williams")
  Burst sparging (Jim Welsh)
  Why we should all drink beer. (John McClumpha)
  lager brewing, inc. irish moss and yeast nutrient / water treatment / pumpkin beer ("George de Piro")
  correction to post about beer in regulators ("George de Piro")
  Re;  Efficiency? (William Frazier)
  B-Brite ("Bill Jankowski")
  Re: Hydrometer temperature corrections (KMacneal)
  hop teas ("Alan Meeker")
  Malt Storage ? ("Whyman Dental Lab, Inc")
  Slapping a Motor on the Malt Mill (Biergiek)
  SS fittings for LT,MLT ("Rod Prather")
  British Iodophor (Susan/Bill Freeman)
  Re: priming sugar/hop tea (Paul Shick)
  Grain mill motorization (Susan/Bill Freeman)
  Quick start for Danstar yeasts (Paul Shick)
  War of the Worts 5 ("Alan Folsom")
  measuring SG ("Menegoni, Lee")
  Pilsener Urquell: tap vs. bottles ("G. M. Remake")
  RE: Hop Teas (Demonick)
  re: Brewing in gallons, divide recipe by 5? (Lou.Heavner)
  getting educated ("Glen Pannicke")
  Re: only bottling a few (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Hop Teas - Again (Spencer W Thomas)
  Undermodified Czech Malt (John Varady)
  RE: 7 Sternbrau ("Mercer, David")
  water treatment, hop gunk ("Paul Niebergall")
  Idophor ("Dana H. Edgell")
  Caustic Soda as a Sanitizer - Can it be used (Graham Sanders)
  Udderfor (Some Guy)
  Need Beginner Recipe ("Erik B. Wetzler")
  Primes Individual Bottles (kathy/jim)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:49:30 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Greetings from 0.0 Rennerian

Brewers

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild held its monthly meeting tonight at [0,0,0]
Rennerian and sends you its greetings!

HBDers here are Spencer Thomas, Joe Clayton, Paul Kensler (formerly of
Texas), Phil Wilcox, Pat Babcock, Chris Frey, Ken Schramm, Dan McConnell,
Mike O'Brien, Arnold Neitzke, David Russell, Tom Plunkard and yours truly.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:27:04 -0800
From: "jim williams" <jim&amy at macol.net>
Subject: regarding Jeff Renners comments on carbonation 

> Often I seal the secondary keg before the fermentation is quite over and
> then transfer carbonated beer in a closed system to a purged and sealed
> serving keg.


I've tried doing this a number of times myself. The only way to transfer,
that I've found, is to open the valve on the receiving keg. This allows the
beer to flow, otherwise a vacuum is created and the beer doesn't flow.
Because of this, I then get beer foaming, and I have to stop, and do it
again, over and over....

what am I missing? Am I wrong in thinking that it can be done in a truly
"closed" system?

Thanks, jim


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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:58:50 -0600
From: Jim Welsh <jwelsh at execpc.com>
Subject: Burst sparging

In a recent post, Paul spoke of "burst sparging": You recirculate and
allow first run-off as per normal, until your grain bed isnearly
visible, then dump your sparge water (slowly at first, as you do not
want to cut "channels" in your bed) on top of the grain bed until 2-3
inches of water column is achieved.  Allow it to runoff slowly, until
the grain bed
is again visible, and repeat to completion of your sparge.

Has anyone tried this method, and if so, were you successful?



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:30:37 +1100 (EST)
From: katana at incitegraphics.com.au (John McClumpha)
Subject: Why we should all drink beer.

 "Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I
 feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about
 the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams.
 If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and
 their dreams would be shattered.  Then I say to myself, "It
 is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come
 true than be selfish and worry about my liver."




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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:19:51 -0500
From: "George de Piro" <gdepiro at mindspring.com>
Subject: lager brewing, inc. irish moss and yeast nutrient / water treatment / pumpkin beer

Hi all,

Guy Gregory asks for opinions about his lager brewing procedures.

He mentioned that his beers take a while to get to a reasonable final
gravity, and that they sometimes seem to finish kind of high even after a
substantial amount of time.  He also describes his yeast propagation
procedure, which is basically making a starter in a 500 mL flask (so I
assume no more than 300 mL of starter, unless there is a lot of foam on
Guy's counter).

300-500 mL of starter is not nearly enough for a 5 gallon (19L) batch of
lager (or an ale, for that matter).  My Jan. 1999 BT article about yeast
propagation describes in detail what should be done, and I have expounded on
the topic here in the past, too.  In short:

When you grow yeast, you should never increase the volume of wort the yeast
are in by more than a factor of ten.  In other words, if you start with a 50
mL Wyeast package, that should be pitched into no more than 500 mL of wort.
The 500 mL can be stepped up to 5 L, and from there you have enough yeast to
pitch 50 L of wort (about 12 gallons).

If you follow this "10 X volume step-up" rule of thumb, and only oxygenate
each time you add wort (as opposed to continuously) you will find your
pitching rates to be about 7-10 times lower than the mega brewers recommend.
I have found that when making ales this is acceptable.  Fermentation may
take an extra day or two, but there will be enough yeast to get the wort
fermented with good flavor characteristics.  I do this at the brewpub all
the time, and at home it is also my general practice for ales.

For lagers that are pitched cold, you really want to get closer to what the
megabrewers consider an acceptable pitching rate (1 million cells/mL/deg.
Plato).  You can achieve an acceptable fermentation with less yeast, but the
less you have, the higher the odds of things going awry.

Other than Guy's yeast work, I noted two other things that I will comment
on:

He uses Irish moss and yeast nutrient.  I question the necessity of either
of these additives.  I guess the quality of your hot break will depend
largely on your water chemistry and the malts you use, but I have found that
at home (water with a fair amount of residual alkalinity) and at the brewpub
(water with very little residual alkalinity) I can produce very clear beers
without using Irish moss.

Yeast nutrients I question even more strongly.  If you are producing an
all-malt wort, there should be no lack of nutrients for the yeast.  The
diammonium salts in most yeast nutrients aren't even a favorite nitrogen
source of yeast; they prefer amino acids and will use them first (Siebel
notes).  One thing that the teachers at Siebel stressed was to not add junk
to your beer unless you are certain you need to.  Paul Smith's opinion was
that if you needed Irish moss or yeast nutrients, you were doing something
wrong somewhere in the process.

Guy also notes a sulphury note in his young lagers.  This is perfectly
normal and it should fade with age.  Some ale yeasts will produce an excess
of hydrogen sulfide as well.
- ----------------------------------
"Spostek at voicenet.com" (please sign your posts) asks about water treatment
for extract brewing.  An extract brewer has little to be concerned with as
far as water chemistry.  Perhaps the most important thing to pay attention
to is the amount of sulfate in your water.  Sulfate will increase the
perception of hop bitterness, and even warp it a little so that it tastes a
bit harsher and more minerally.

You should call your water company and ask them to send you an analysis that
shows the concentrations of the major ions:  Calcium, sulfate, sodium,
chloride, carbonate, etc. before adding any salts to your brewing water.
Blindly following a recipe and adding gypsum (calcium sulfate) to your water
can really wreck your beer if your water is already high in sulphate.  The
same goes for other ions.  Know what's already there before you go changing
things!

As an all-grain brewer your major water concern is residual alkalinity (RA),
which is a function of the amount of calcium and carbonate/bicarbonate in
your water.  Water with low RA will yield an appropriate mash pH when using
a grist of nothing but pale malts.  Higher RA requires darker grains (or
calcium additions) to balance the alkalinity and get the mash pH in the
5-5.6 range.

An all-grain brewer is also concerned with sulfate for the same reasons that
the extract brewer is.  In my own brewing, at home and at the pub, I don't
mess with anything other than RA (and sometimes sodium and chloride). I
prefer beers with little sulfate content.
- --------------------------------------
Mike K. wants to brew a pumpkin beer and wants to know when to add the
pumpkin.  Pumpkin is very starchy and cannot be added to the boil.  It MUST
be mashed with diastatic malts to convert the starch to sugar.  If you don't
heed this warning, you will (not might) end up with very hazy beer that
tastes starchy.  I am so sure of this because one of my first extract beers
was a pumpkin ale, made by chucking canned pumpkin into the boil.  The wild
yeasts that will inevitably contaminate your beer will eventually eat the
starch, causing the beer o be grossly over carbonated.  Mine sat in the
basement for two years before a bottle exploded, cutting my leg!

Let that be a lesson:  if your beer tastes bad, just toss it before you get
hurt!

If you are brewing with extract, you cannot use pumpkin.  You can brew a
beer that tastes like pumpkin pie simply by using pumpkin pie spices in the
boil, though.  The flavor contribution of actual pumpkin is pretty light;
it's the spices that most people associate with pumpkin pie that make them
think, "Oh, pumpkin."

Have fun!

George de Piro

C.H. Evans Brewing Company
at the Albany Pump Station
(518)447-9000
http://evansale.com (under construction)

Malted Barley Appreciation Society
Homebrew Club
http://hbd.org/mbas



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:37:06 -0500
From: "George de Piro" <gdepiro at mindspring.com>
Subject: correction to post about beer in regulators

Hi all,

I noticed that my post in HBD 3219 (Wed.) about beer in regulators was not
typed correctly.  I blame my parents for this, because they obviously passed
on inferior genes that do not give me the coordination necessary to type
properly.  If only they had my genes modified when I was but a zygote...

Anyway, my mistyped post sort of implies that it is hard to take apart a
regulator.  It isn't.  My beery regulators have not been a source of
infection, either.  You should clean it, but I wouldn't bother sanitizing
it.

Have fun!

George de Piro

C.H. Evans Brewing Company
at the Albany Pump Station
(518)447-9000
http://evansale.com (under construction)

Malted Barley Appreciation Society
Homebrew Club
http://hbd.org/mbas



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:52:35 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re;  Efficiency?

George miller uses his new RIMS for two batches and gets unexpected OGs.  

George - You need to know what your total boiled volume is to get a handle
on problems with specific gravity.  Measure the volume of chilled wort that
you run into the fermentation vessle or settling tank.  Measure the volume
of wort that is trapped in the spent hops.  Add these volume measurements
together for a total boiled volume.  Unless you know this figure you can't
be sure what your specific gravity measurements mean.

Also, you started both batches with 11 gallons volume.  Batch one boiled 60
minutes and batch two boiled 75 minutes.  This would change your total
boiled volume for sure.  My system boils off 1.5 gallons volume, regardless
of starting volume, during a 75 minute boil.  

If you determine what the total boiled volume is for your recipes I think
you will solve the OG problem.


        Bill Frazier
        Johnson County, Kansas



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:35:33 -0500
From: "Bill Jankowski" <wjankowski at snet.net>
Subject: B-Brite

Much in the opposite vein as Randy in Salisbury, I had some terrible
batches using Idaphor which cleared up as soon as I switched over to
B-Brite. I hadn't considered the whole resistant bacteria as spoiler;
thanks for that tip. The one thing that I did find was that the
residual flavors from the sanitizer seemed to be dependant on the
concentration I mixed when I used Idaphor, but did not vary using
B-Brite.

On another note, has anyone tried C-Brite? I saw it at the local brew
shop and was thinking of trying it.

Bill Jankowski
Colchester, CT

PS I've been playing with my new GPS but still unable to determine my
bearing and range to Jeff Renner.



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 07:38:20 EST
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: Hydrometer temperature corrections

In a message dated 1/13/2000 12:18:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, John Schnupp 
writes:

<< What about using a hydrometer that's been calibrated for higher temps?
 I've thought about getting one for a range that covers sparge temps and
 one with a range that includes boiling temp.  I'm I thinking too
 simplistic? >>

John,

You're not thinking simplisticly enough!  There are temperature correction 
charts available for hydrometers in the range of the sparge temperatures and 
up.  For example, for wort at 160F, add 0.022 to your specific gravity 
reading.

Keith MacNeal
Worcester, MA



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:19:53 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: hop teas

Paul asks about hop teas:

    1)    How long do you steepers steep your hop tea before it's done?

Mike Maceyka and I used a hop tea to cap off our Hoppiest Beer on the
Planet(TM) and it worked great. We pre-boiled the water for sanitation then
let it cool to below boiling before adding the hops, Steeped for about 15
minutes as I recall.

    2)    Do you use a regular kitchen strainer to separate tea from hops?
Is there an oxidation problem with this?

We used a drip coffee filter because we made the tea from pellets. If you do
it gently enough I'd guess that oxidation shouldn't be too much of a
problem. this will also depend on how many hop polyphenols you have
extracted.

    3)    Must you steep below boiling temps or is boiling O.K. (seems safer
from a sanitation perspective)?

We took our cue from the world of teas and coffees where the most discerning
drinkers seem adamant about keeping the temperatures below boiling. I'm no
tea expert but I believe that part of the idea is to keep from extracting
too many tannins that would make the tea overly bitter and astringent. Also
many of the delicate and volatile flavors could be destroyed or driven off
by true boiling and this is certainly true for hops. What are you trying to
get from your hop tea? If you just want bitterness then preserving the
flavor and aroma characters may not be important to you. In this case
boiling will be necessary to extract and isomerize the bittering compounds
from the hops. Also note that for extracting bittering compounds (primarily
the alpha acids) if there is sugar present this will decrease the efficiency
of extraction.

As for sanitation, this shouldn't be too much of a concern since people
(myself included) dry-hop all the time and steeping the hops in hot water is
more sanitary than simply throwing the hops straight into the beer!

    4)    Is there a downside to boiling hops in a sugar solution (i.e.
change the molecular nature of the sugar such as to limit carbonation, off
flavors,etc.)?

This shouldn't hurt unless you really boil the heck out of it to the point
where you start carmelizing the sugar or get prolonged reactions between the
sugar and hop proteins. Probably more of a concern is to make sure you take
into account losses in sugar due to the volume of sugar solution that will
be left behind stuck to the hop particles of the spent tea.

Good Luck!



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:58:48 -0700
From: "Whyman Dental Lab, Inc" <whymandl at milehigh.net>
Subject: Malt Storage ?

Rich Sieben
Island Lake, IL says:
(Believe it or not there are actually still stores out there that keep
malt
in bins that you just scoop out what you want and this is a really bad
idea!)
If this is true, what is the proper way to handle malt?
Roger Whyman
Englewood,CO




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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:35:13 EST
From: Biergiek at aol.com
Subject: Slapping a Motor on the Malt Mill

>Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 21:10:04 -0500
>From: "BeerLvr" <Beerlvr at hrfn.net>
>Subject: Grain Mill Motorization

>Well I used my new JSP MALTMILL the other day and made
>a stout.  It worked great but I want to motorize it as the 19.5
>pounds of grain took a little while to mill.  Can anyone tell me
>what the optimum speed is and what specific equipment was
>used to motorize thier MALTMILL?

Mike asks about motorizing his MaltMill.  Basically, Mike, it can't be done.
I should say, it can't be done safely.  There is a small explosive
charge that has been implanted in the roller shaft by the
manufacturer.  It will detonate upon sensing the magnetic flux of
a motor.  What you have to do is upgrade to the motorizable Malt Mill,
but this is a $472 upgrade, thats why most folks don't do it and just
buy the Valley Mill instead. (slap on a motor with a 30 in-lb.
torque, and 150ish rpm and you are all set - somobody posted the
motor, vendor, and cost the other day - good luck!).

Kyle
Bakersfield, CA


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:36:58 -0500
From: "Rod Prather" <rodpra at netzero.net>
Subject: SS fittings for LT,MLT

Does anyone have any suggestions for the SS fittings that are welded into
the side of Sanke kegs to make the LT and MLT Brew pot.  I would like half
inch ID fittings.

Second....  How high above the bottom of the keg should the sump line in the
MLT
be placed.  The L sump line should be completely submerged when lautering to
keep the pump
from losing prime.

Any thoughts on placement of the pump feed from the LT.   Classic is the L
tube feed.  This allows
the LT to have a burner.  I don't need a burner on my LT.  I could get the
main pump feed from the
LT via a large a straight line off of the center of the bottom of the Sanke.
This might be best as
it would allow a large diameter fitting for my grant.


Rod Prather
Project Engineer
Industrial Controls and Automation
328 St Road 144
Bargersville, IN 46106

Phone #(317)422-1778 Fax #(317)422-1802

__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:03:36 -0600
From: Susan/Bill Freeman <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: British Iodophor

Most dairy operations use an iodine based sterilizer.  You might check
with one in your area and see what they use.  Hope this helps.
Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat  Birmingham, AL



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:07:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Re: priming sugar/hop tea




Hello all,

	Paul Ward asks about adding a hop plug to his
priming sugar solution while boiling it, sort of combining
priming with a hop tea.  I tried this once, several years
back, straining out the hops using a kitchen collander, roughly
as Paul suggests.  Unfortunately, it seemed that much of my 
priming sugar got left behind with the hops, because the ale
never carbonated properly, even after several months.  If you
can come up with a way to account for the lost sugars, Paul, 
I don't think that there are any other drawbacks.

   			Paul Shick 
 			Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH

 



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:08:26 -0600
From: Susan/Bill Freeman <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Grain mill motorization

"Here come da flames, here come da flames!"  Contrary to all popular
belief and Jack, I use a 3/8 drive drill motor to power mil JSP.  It has
worked for the last 3 years without a hitch.
Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat, Birmingham, AL



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:23:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Quick start for Danstar yeasts



Hello all,

	A quick report on a novel dry yeast starting technique:
You might recall previous threads on slow starts with Lallemand
Danstar yeast, probably due to underpitching and sloppy rehydration
procedures.  One possible cure, proposed by an eminent brewer as the
result of ongoing experiments, was to aerate the wort thoroughly at 
pitching; then, if fermentation has not started at that point, aerate 
again at 6-8 hrs after pitching.  

	I brewed a 10+ gallon batch of what I hope will be a very
interesting bitter, yesterday, pitching 25 grams of Windsor yeast,
being very careful with rehydration and attemperation.  I aerated
thoroughly at pitching.  After 7 hours, the fermentation hadn't
taken off, so I gave it another 25 seconds of oxygen.  Less than
one hour later, I had a great krausen going, as predicted by the 
experiments.  

	So this seems to be a nice technique to jump start fermentation,
if things are a little slow. It might help somewhat with underpitching
problems.  The one thing to be careful of, I guess, is to avoid aerating
after fermentation has taken off, but this should be easy to see.

	Again, my thanks to all who suggested solutions to my yeast
problems.  I'm looking forward to kegging this bitter, since I've heard
so many nice things about the Windsor strain.  This is my first batch 
in my new SS fermentor.  So far, it's as easy to use as I imagined.

			Paul Shick
			Basement brewing in Cleveland Heights, OH

 


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:50:56 -0500
From: "Alan Folsom" <folsom at jmisoftware.com>
Subject: War of the Worts 5

This is a (somewhat belated) announcement of the War of the 
Worts V homebrew competition, and a call for judges.  The 
War of theWorts will be February 5th this year, and will be 
held at the "Drafting Room" restaurant in Spring House, PA.  
Spring House is just north of Philadelphia on Bethlehem Pike, 
off of route 309, with easy access from the PA Turnpike.

Entry and contact information, full rules, and and downloadable 
forms can be found at:  
	http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/warworts.html

Good luck!

Al Folsom
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Alan L. Folsom, Jr.                folsom at jmisoftware.com
Requisite witticism:
    "It don't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep."

       PGP Public key available on servers
- ---------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:04:39 -0500
From: "Menegoni, Lee" <Lee.Menegoni at compaq.com>
Subject: measuring SG

Some folks seem to go to take some very elaborate steps to measure SG of
final runnings or hot wort.

I take a sample, measure its temperature, and add the appropriate amount of
correction from a table I have photocopied and keep in my brewing space. 

No snow banks, water baths or  mini chillers.

Attilio "Lee" Menegoni
email:  Lee.Menegoni at Compaq.com



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:16:31 -0600
From: "G. M. Remake" <gremake at gsbalum.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Pilsener Urquell: tap vs. bottles

Hello all,

On a recent business trip to Washington D.C., I had the pleasure of
enjoying several glasses of Pilsener Urquell at a restaurant.  This was the
first time I tried PU from a tap, and it was absolutely wonderful.  It
exhibited flavors, character and maltiness that I've never found in bottled
examples.  Frankly, I never understood what the big deal was over this
beer, based on the bottles I had sampled.  They were good, but not nearly
as delicious as what was on tap in D.C.  

So my questions are: is there any difference in the beer that PU kegs
versus bottles?  Are the bottles I get all skunked or otherwise suffering
from packaging and handling defficiencies?  Can I ever hope to find green
bottles of PU (here in the States) that approach the quality of kegged PU?

I currently have a triple-decocted Bohemian Pilsener batch finishing up in
the primary carboy, for which I now have even higher final expectations.  I
hope I won't be terribly disappointed, having tasted the paragon.

Cheers!

Greg

 ...


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:22:19 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: RE: Hop Teas

From: "Paul Ward" <paulw at doc.state.vt.us> 
>I was wondering if there was a downside to throwing a hop plug or two
>into the sugar/ water solution while boiling to sanitize.  Questions:

I've used a hop tea or two in my time.  Generally, I boil the water
for 10 minutes or so, turn off the burner, throw in the hops, cover,
and let stand until the water has cooled.  This can take 2-3 hours.  
Since I use whole hops I just use the pot lid to help decant the tea
into the fermenter or keg or bucket or whatever.

The usual point of a hop tea is to get more hop aroma and flavor
than you got in the boil.  Also it can be an alternative to
dry-hopping when kegging.

>4) Is there a downside to boiling hops in a sugar solution (i.e.
>change the molecular nature of the sugar such as to limit
>carbonation, off flavors,

If there was a downside to boiling hops in sugar solution we'd all
be in trouble since wort is basically just brown sugar water :-)

Cheers!

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com

FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or 
email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't 
call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only.



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:08:51 -0600
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: re: Brewing in gallons, divide recipe by 5?

     From: RRodda5250 at aol.com
     >>>>
     I'm new to brewing (and loving it) and work with extracts only so far.
     Living in a small apartment I'm interested in brewing up gallon
     batches of beer. The recipes all make 5 gallons (or more) and I'm
     wondering if I can safely divide the recipe ingredients by 5 to come
     up with a recipe for 1 gallon.
     <<<<

     My guess is it would work reasonably well but I have no empirical
     evidence.  You may need to cut back on the hops a bit more if you are
     adding your own hops to the boil. A typical 1 hour boil of a 5 gal
     batch loses less than 20% of the starting volume, but a 1 hour boil of
     a 1 gal batch would result in a loss of ~50% of the starting volume.
     Actually that is assuming you were doing full volume boils.  With
     partial boils that most extract brewers employ on 5 gal batches the
     affect may be even greater.  The good news is that you can pitch the
     same amount of yeast and achieve better fermentation because the
     effective concentration of pitched yeast will be higher.  I believe
     some people may do 1 gal size test batches when trying new recipes or
     performing experiments, so give it a try and good luck!

     Cheers!

     Lou Heavner - Austin, TX


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:38:33 -0500
From: "Glen Pannicke" <gpannicke at email.msn.com>
Subject: getting educated

On Mon, 10 Jan 2000 scott wrote about "getting educated":

>>For those of you who may be more interested in GM and it's safety issues
>>visit http://www.fda.gov/oc/biotech/default.htm.  It's a good starting place
>>for getting educated.

>Glen...what's your idea of "getting educated"?  For everyone to adhere to
>your point of view?  Thanks, but no thanks.

My idea of "getting educated" is not to blindly adhere to *my* point of view
(or anyone else's for that matter) but it is actually quite the opposite.
People should do a little research into a subject and then base their opinion
on the information at hand.  I've seen many statements which are based upon
momilies, fear, and ignorance.  This not only applies to the subject of GMOs,
which keeps drifting OT, but to many of the subjects presented in this forum.
The HBD is an excellent forum for discussing issues, presenting valid
information in support of or against the arguements and trying to reach a
consensus.  I'm just trying to contribute to the forum by presenting a
starting point for those who may be intersted in learning more from a
credible, unbiased resource.

Glen

================================
Millstone Alehouse
alehouse at homepage.com
http://alehouse.homepage.com
================================




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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:27:05 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: only bottling a few 

Dan Michael asks about bottling "just a few" for a competition.

I have done the following with some success before I got my CP filler.

Carbonate your beer in the keg a little above target carbonation
level.  Get both the keg and bottles very cold.  Get the beer down to
30-31F if you can.  Sanitize your "cobra tap."  Get it very cold.
Then you can "dribble fill" the bottles from the keg.  Relieve
pressure in the keg until there is just enough to push the beer out.
Let it run gently down the inside of the bottle.  You should get a
little bit of foaming, but not much.  Let it (the foam) overflow just
slightly (minimizes air left in the bottle). Cap immediately.

Needless to say, everything should be clean and sanitized.  I sanitize
my bottles and then cap each with a small square of aluminum foil
before chilling them.

Otherwise, for a 12 oz bottle, and for typical "American" carb levels
(2.5 volumes), you need about 2 grams of sugar per bottle.  This is
probably close to a teaspoon (of corn sugar, 1/2tsp of table sugar),
but volumetric measurements of powders are not very accurate.

Another way to look at it: you'll get about 50 bottles from 5
gallons.  Take the amount of corn sugar you'd use to prime 5 gallons
(3/4 cup?) and divide by 50:  
     3/4 c / 50 = 
     3/4 c * 16 tbl/c * 3 tsp/tbl / 50 =
     3/4 * 48 tsp / 50 = about 3/4 tsp

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:32:58 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Hop Teas - Again 

Paul Ward asks about making "hop tea" for added hop flavor/aroma.  The
one thing I'd watch out for is the pH of your hop steeping liquid.  If
you just drop hops in water and heat it, you *will* extract a lot of
tannin due to the relatively high pH of the water (i.e., above 6).  I
speak from experience.



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:48:05 -0500 (EST)
From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: Undermodified Czech Malt

Phil says:
>I purchased some of the UNDER modified Czech Malt from St. Pats and am now
>looking into how to properly use it.
>Has anybody brewed with it yet?
>What did you do?
>Would you recommend doing anything different?

I've brewed with it and bottled last night. Wow! that's tasty. Immediately
after bottling, I went to a local and had a pint of PU on tap. I am very,
very, very happy with my results as compared to the original. It will only
get about 6 weeks of lagering before MCAB II (I've got two slots in the
Bo-Pils category), but I think it will score high judging from the unlagered
version. The recipe was:

Name:   Czech Golem                  O.G.: 1.050 (FG = 1.012)
Style:  Bohemian Pilsener          I.B.U.: 40.1
Volume: 15.0 Gallons               A.B.V.: 4.9

Grains/Fermentables         Lbs    Hops    AAU     Oz  Min
Czech Undermodified       25.00    Saaz    3.5   7.00  120
                                   Saaz    3.5   3.00   15

Yeast: Wyeast 2000 - Budvar                                        
Miscellaneous Ingredients   Amt Units
Breakbrite                 1.00 Teaspoon  


I did a single decoction mash. Actually, it was a split mash. 10 lbs malt
was mashed in 10 quarts water to rest at 50F. It was then heated slowly to
135F and rested for 15 mins. Then it was boosted to 151F and rested for 30
mins. Then it was bought to a boil and boiled for 1 hour. Meanwhile, I
mashed in the remaining 15 lbs of grains into 30 quarts of water to hit
135F. After resting here for 20 mins, the 10 lb decoction was added to boost
the entire mash to 151F and rested for 30 mins. It was then boosted to 154F
for 40 mins, and boosted to 165F for mash out. Total brewing liquor was 10
gallons for a grist/water ratio of 1.6 qts/lb. Batch sparged with 7.5
gallons of water to collect just below 15 gallons. Boiled for 120 mins and
topped up to 15 gallons after chilling. Ferment between 45-50F over 2 weeks.

One note, the kernel size of the malt is much plumper than american malts
(which I use almost extensively) and it took my maltmill about twice as long
to chew through it. My water was untreated tap and the hops were whole.

And, I wouldn't change a thing! So now that I've given my recipe and
techniques out to a fellow competitor in the MCAB Bo-Pils category, I expect
some stiff competition! It will make victory that much sweeter (or maltier).
Best of luck to you Phil - that category has some excellent brewers qualified.

I brewed basically the same recipe last weekend with the exception of using
Breiss 2-row as the malt. This will be my second MCAB entry in the Bo-Pils
category. This one will get less lagering (4 weeks), but hopefully enough.

Good Luck and happy mashing

John

PS> Be certain to use whole hops to get the hop profile right. Pelletizing
destroys the farnesene levels of the hop which is critical to get this style
right. Now I've given away all my secrets.
- -- 
John Varady                     http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady
Glenside, PA                    rust1d at usa.net



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:53:53 -0800
From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org>
Subject: RE: 7 Sternbrau

Tom asked about Siebensternbrau Hanf-Bier, being lucky enough to have a
bottle of it brought back from Europe.

Siebensternbrau is a brewpub/restaurant in Vienna, and is IMO the best in
the city (which is saying something). As the name implies, the hanf-bier is
spiced with hemp. I generally don't like hemp beers, but Siebensternbrau's
is an exception. Very nicely balanced with noble hops and German pilsner
malt. Unlike the majority of hemp beers that I've seen in the US, this one
is a lager, and like all the 7 Sternbrau beers, is decoction mashed. 

Siebensternbrau is also the most adventurous of the brewpubs in Vienna. They
were, I believe, the first to brew a hemp beer, and as far as I know, they
are the only brewery in Europe that makes an American Pale Ale (a tip of the
hat to their assistant brewer, who is an American). The APA is
extraordinarily good, and somewhat eccentric: it has no pale ale malt, (the
brewer, Sprague Terplain, a UC Davis grad who used to work at a brewpub in
New Mexico, had to approximate an American grain bill with a mix of locally
available malts: pilsner, Vienna, and light and dark caramel) Hops are
Hersbrucker and Cascade and it is dry-hopped with Hallertauer Mittelfrueh!

Siebensternbrau is a must visit for any beer geek traveling to Vienna. Tom
is lucky to have a bottle of their beer. Next time, tell your friend to
bring you along...

Dave in Seattle

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:18:59 EST
From: Tombrau at aol.com
Subject: 7 Stern Brau - Hanf-Bier

A friend brought back from Europe a 1 liter bottle of 7 Stern Hanf-Bier.  
Does anyone have any tasting notes or information on the product?  The label

says it was bottled on Dec 23, 1999 and is good till Jan 13, 2000.

Cheers
Tom



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:13:18 -0600
From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject: water treatment, hop gunk

sposteck writes (in a narrow column with abbreviated line lengths):

>I recently brewed my first batch of extract and
>specialty grains using unhopped malt extract. I
>have two questions:

>After reading some on the subject I was hoping
>someone could enlighten me on the subject of water
>treatments.  I use filtered water that removes
>99% of all the chlorine, etc from the water.  Is
>this enough or should I look to water treatments
>as a potential way to increase the quality of the
>beer?

Filtering your water (tap water I am assuming) is a good 
idea to remove chlorine.  Otherwise, unless you have 
some reason to believe that your water needs further 
treatment, dont worry about it.  Treating your water 
does not necessarily improve the quality of your beer.
Are you experiencing problems with the quality of 
your beer now?  If so, you might check your water 
supply (among many other things).  If you are on a public 
supply, call your water company.  They will be able to 
send you an analysis sheet.  Check the major ions 
affecting beer (Ca, Mg, Fe, Cl, SO4) with the recommended 
ranges in a good brewing book.  Or post a summary of 
the results here.  There are plenty of people who will 
be glad to comment on your water profile.  IF there is a 
problem, then you can work on a specific treatment 
to fix the problem.  Otherwise, dont worry.

>Is there a good way to recover any wort
>that is stuck in there?  A filter?  A funnel? Does
>one work better than the other? Can you actually
>recover any wort without letting in a lot of the
>hop residue?  Or is it just better to cut your
>losses 

Well I guess you could try filtering through cheese 
cloth.  But, you are probably better off cutting your 
losses and dumping it.  It aint worth the extra
effort to recover the last bit of wort from the 
hop gunk.  Besides, you may recover other
things from the hop gunk that you do not want.

You can either stick with the 4.5 gallons at 1.050 
or top off the fermentor and get 5 gallons at 1.045.  
Personally, I would top off as I figure 5 gallons is 
always better than 4.5 gallons.  Of course I tend  
to not worry about things like hitting my specific gravity 
targets all that much either.

If for stylistic reasons, you must achieve 1.050, then
keep it there and live with less beer.  On your next 
brewing excursion, keep some dried malt extract 
handy.  Once the wort comes to a boil, take a sample 
cool it, and check the gravity.  If it is too low, based on 
the initial volume of boiling wort, now is the time to adjust 
it by adding additional dried extract.  This is pretty much 
a variation of the "just add an extra pound of grain" 
technique, which works surprisingly well.




Paul Niebergall
Burns & McDonnell
pnieb at burnsmcd.com
"Illegitimis non carborundum"



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:46:24 -0700
From: "Dana H. Edgell" <Edgeale at cs.com>
Subject: Idophor


Adam Funk asked:

>Does anyone know if Iodospor is available in the UK?  If so, where and
>how could I get some?

Idophor is used to clean & sanitize dairy equipement (and cow's udders
before attaching milking machines). Check a local farm or dairy supply
store. I bought a gallon of idophor at one here in the states for the price
of a quart at the homebrew shop.

Dana

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell              mailto:EdgeAle at cs.com
Edge Ale Brewery         http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle
San Diego

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder




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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:43:47 +1000
From: Graham Sanders <GrahamS at bsa.qld.gov.au>
Subject: Caustic Soda as a Sanitizer - Can it be used


Feedback requested

I was at a discussion group last night on of all things brewing, and the
talk eventually swung round to steralizing and sanitation of equipment.
Besides definitions being discussed, the talk got onto ingredients as the
group was convinced that for the majority of homebrewers need only to
sanitize their gear, not steralize.  Anyway when I was asked my opinion, I
said I dont use the normal stated sanitizers, I just use caustic soda (NaOH)
 - diluted of course.  I said it was perfectly good for the job, proof no
more far away than my brewing record, no infections in many years of
brewing.  Now this was a silly boast to make, especially around those
knowledgable in brewing, and soon I was flooded with books, papers,
articles, not to mention words that it is NOT a santitzer.  Still
opinionated as I am I stuck to my guns stating it still works.

This morning in a more sober and open frame of mind I did a little research
and I have to admit to a degree that yes they are right, it is not a
sanitizer, proof no further away than flamingos feeding on microbes in
caustic lakes.  OK so there are microbes that can live in a caustic
environment.  The question then comes up - Why I have I had no infections.
Is it because the brewing Gods look favourably upon me, after all I do make
the ritural offerings on a non too regular basis.  Not to insult the Gods
(after all they may be on my side) I need to find answers to the use of
caustic soda. My setup is all stainless steel with the odd plastic hose hear
and there.

My theory is that caustic soda can be used in a sense as a sanitizer for
homebrewing (even though it does not fit the exact definition of a
sanitizer).  Unless you live next to flamingos (not the concrete kind
thankyou), it should be highly unlikely that high PH tolerant microbes are
about.  If I soak my gear in caustic soda, the HIGH ph will kill all the
bugs harmful to a beer.  And even if they are around and survive that
caustic environment, when the wort is added, ph under 5.5 (one hopes, or at
least a bit acedic), wouldn't that be unsuitable, if not toxic to any
microbes that live in a caustic environment.  I'm no chemist or biologist,
but wouldn't it have to be one mighty superbug that could go through all
that.

The bottom line is that I been using caustic soda as a cleaner and sanitizer
for many years.  I suspose I wont change, but the question is why isnt it
mentioned as a use for killing bugs, or are the Gods really looking after
me.

Answers please.

Graham Sanders
Townsville
Queensland
Australia     

  


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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:13:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Udderfor

Greetings, Beerligns! Take me to your lager...

Dana H. Edgell dit:

> Idophor is used to clean & sanitize dairy equipement (and cow's udders
> before attaching milking machines). 

Former is true, but careful with the parenthetical. I believe the
"iodophor" used on the udders - sometimes called teet-wash - contains
lanolin and/or other emolients. Besides adversely affecting the heading
ability of your brew, these things taste yucky.

 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:14:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "Erik B. Wetzler" <erikwetz at umich.edu>
Subject: Need Beginner Recipe

We are moving on to our third batch and would like to hear recipe
suggestions using extracts.  We are looking for something in a light amber
colored ale.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Erik Wetzler

 -ebw



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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:27:00 -0400
From: kathy/jim <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Primes Individual Bottles

Geo DePiro writes

> 
> This is something Dave writes every once in a while, and it really makes me
> wonder if he has ever brewed a batch of beer.  Priming each bottle
> individually is about the most tedious, error-prone method of carbonating a
> beer that I could imagine.  It is hard to believe that anybody who has
> actually done this would advocate it.

Jim Booth writes.....

I realize Geo D. is into production, and I'm a relative piker, but I've  gone
to priming individual bottles for my brewing.  I bottle directly out of my
secondary avoiding aeration and contamination of a bottling bucket.  

I use 1 tbls of priming fluid per bottle added via a small funnel. The priming
fluid may be beer or tap water into which I've disolved the sugar.  I usually
heat this in a microwave to 180F or so to pastuerize, add 3/4c sugar/5gal or
whatever rate desired, so I have 1 tbls of fluid for the 
size of batch to bottle.  If I'm adding new yeast or hop oils, that is stirred
in when the priming water is cooled.  

It takes just a few minutes to spoon 1 tbls into the bottles (I have 3
cheap small plastic funnels.

Dave B. may/maynot deserve to get beat up for his ideas, but I'm with
him on this procedure.  For those with draft system equipment, I'm sure Geo's
suggestions are appropiate, but priming via bottles eliminates the
bottling bucket and aeration, uneven mixing and contamination. 

cheers,  jim booth
suggestions are vary appropiate



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---