---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: flour in witbier ("Darren Robey")
  Protein Rest (TKBFRED)
  kcal/ 12 oz serving (TKBFRED)
  efficiency & stuff (Tony Barnsley)
  Food Value Calculations (Tony Barnsley)
  Biere de Garde (ThomasM923)
  Calcium/pH/Papers/Carbonate/Boltz./Calories ("A. J. deLange")
  homebrew shops in Nashville (Marc Sedam)
  bug culturing info (Lou.Heavner)
  Buying casks (Bill)
  Jack's Cheeses ("Houseman, David L")
  Not Another Hobby... & PB ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  calculating beer calories/ suing microwaves ("Alan Meeker")
  Northeast HB Clubs? (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  corona mill adjustment results (erniebaker)
  UV sterilization of wort and general sanitation ("George de Piro")
  Mash Temperature, Radiating uwave doors,skunky and catty (Dave Burley)
  Fermenter design (Joseph Gibbens)
  Cheesemaking (Dan Listermann)
  Raw Wheat/Shipping (Eric Schoville)
  Thermometer preference ("Sean Richens")
  guiness acid levels (Jim Liddil)
  Re: efficiency & stuff (David Lamotte)
  Malz Bier (William Frazier)
  Aluminum Brew Pots ("Ed Howell")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Entry deadline for the Mayfare Homebrew Competition is 3/15/00 
* See http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ for more information

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:56:00 +1000
From: "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au>
Subject: Re: flour in witbier



Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:20:04 EST
From: KMacneal at aol.com
Subject: Re: flour in witbier

Well here i something I do know a thing about!

Good extraction of wheat flour is around 75% so 1kg of wheat would yeild
750grams of flour. (Go Metric!)

Some millers limit themselves to 60% as it can imporve flour quality in
ways I wont bother going into. Dont know about in the US but most generic
flour on the supermarket shelf is usually low protein (<10%) and low
gluten. Best for making cakes and very poor for bread making, which is why
a lot of peoples home breadmaking attempts are not totally successful,
without the purchase of breadmaking flour.

Anyhow the upshot is that the cheap supermarket flours should be what you
need and I'd aim for using around 70% as your factor when working how much
you need.
 ---    ---     ----      ---     ---     ----    ---

Dave,

I made the assumption that 1 lb. of whole wheat flour = 1 lb. of whole
wheat
grain.  I follow Rajotte's suggestion and use a sifter to add the flour to
the mash.  No guey sparges yet.

Keith MacNeal
Worcester, MA




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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 01:46:48 EST
From: TKBFRED at aol.com
Subject: Protein Rest

Darrell Leavitt asked about:
Subject: protein rest?

Darrell:
Without knowing if Charlie used under- or overmodified 2 Row Malt, I would 
say that the
rest at 133*F was for the wheat Malt, to break down higher molecular proteins.
I observed that using a small portion of wheat in Pilsener and under modified 
2 Row Pilsener Malt gave a GREAT Foam and Heat retention on the resulting 
beer.

Fred M. Scheer


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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 02:01:33 EST
From: TKBFRED at aol.com
Subject: kcal/ 12 oz serving


Mark E. in Melbourne asked:
Subject: Food Value Calculations 


Mark:
Basically you can calculate the Kcal per 12 oz of your beer as following:

alcohol (w/w) X 6.9 =  A
real extract - Ash  X  4  =  B
A  +  B  =  C
C  X  3.55  X  specific gravity  =  Kcal/12 oz
In the past I made some tests on our 15 gal PICO system (again, they don't 
pay me for mentioning the name) and found that the ASH value for most 
Homebrew was  0.10

Fred M. Scheer



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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:26:49 -0000 
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: efficiency & stuff

Steve Alexander Wrote some stuff debasing the 'excellent' :) metric system
and then finished off with

<<Anyway that is my defence of the 
indefensible Phil, what do you think ?>>

Pretty bad really. I mean when you revolted and kicked us out, you didn't
even have the sense to stick with imperial standards :'> I mean there are 20
fl oz to the pint not 16! and a pint is 563 (completely arbitrary) ml
(IIRC). Think we agree on pounds though!

- --

Wassail!

The Scurrilous Aleman With a Big :-')
Schwarzbad Lager Braueri, Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Reply To Aleman At brewmaster Dot demon Dot co Dot uk
ICQ 46254361



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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:35:43 -0000 
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Food Value Calculations

Mark E Wrote

<<Just wondering if any of you kind souls know how I can calculate 
the finished food value in calories/kilojoules from the OG/FG 
readings for the finished beer. I am a bit of a fatty and I need to do 
some basic calcs to adjust my weekly beer allowance. >>

OH NO NOT AGAIN!!!!  beer doesn't make you fat, I just gives you big bones!

- --

Wassail!

The Scurrilous Aleman
Schwarzbad Lager Braueri, Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Reply To Aleman At brewmaster Dot demon Dot co Dot uk


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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 06:38:40 EST
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Biere de Garde

I'd like to add a little info to the biere de garde thread. A little while 
ago I found Jenlain in 11-12 oz. bottles. The bottles were capped instead of 
corked, and I found the beer inside completely devoid of that "earthy" 
flavor. I feel that the corks (and perhaps the critters that take up 
residence on corks) are entirely responsible for that extra "something" found 
in most of the beers of this style.

Thomas Murray
Maplewood, NJ


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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 13:54:11 +0000
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Calcium/pH/Papers/Carbonate/Boltz./Calories

For Marc: I think malt does indeed have plenty of calcium for
conversion. Remember that the Congress mash which establishes the
practical upper limit of conversion in the laboratory is done with
distilled water. In the brewery no one ever reaches the extraction
levels of the Congress mash no matter how much the calcium is augmented.
On the other hand, one of the virtues of calcium is that it aids in
clarification of the wort in the kettle. I wonder if what you are seeing
is related to that effect.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*

RE the never ending debate on the subject of temperature and pH: I have
always followed the words of DeClerk which Dave quoted yesterday and
assumed from this that we should hit 5.2 - 5.5 at mash temperature. As a
practical matter in most breweries the sample is removed to the
laboratory for measurement and is thus cooled. Doing it this way is
definitely easier on pH electrodes. At the same time my experiments, and
even DeClerk's tables, indicate that the change in pH amounts to
somewhat less than 0.2 pH. It would be, of course, best if all writers
would specify the temperature at which the pH values they are talking
about are measured. If you get it, see Wednesdays IBS forum on the
subject of mash/wort pH.

* * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * *

For Alan: There is definitely something funny about the pH papers in
Troy's report. The pHydrion papers gave reasonable results (i.e. within
perhaps 0.2 of  the true value) in the mash but not with the tap water.
The colorpHast were clearly way off both with the mash and the water.
The only explanation I can think of for the pHydrion is that the tap
water is of low ionic strength but I wouldn't stake a Corny full of my
best beer on it. Low ionic strength water certainly gives problems with
pH meters - perhaps its the same with test papers. Somone suggeted CO2
pickup. Airborne CO2 will drop the pH of deionized water into the 5's
but Troy's water is estimated to be fairly alkaline and how would it be
exposed to CO2 in the distribution system? In other words, I share your
puzzlement!

* * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *

Charles Beaver wants to know how to find the carbonate level in his
bottled water. The smartass answer is "none" because at pH 6.9 only a
tiny fraction of carbo species are carbonate. The more serious answer is
that the program probably really wants to know the bicarbonate level and
that is found by dividing the alkalinity by 50 and multiplying by 61.
One needs to be a little careful here. Lots of publihsed water profiles
specify carbonate when they mean bicarbonate. At the same time, a survey
of dozzens of published profiles show that the bicarbonate/carbonate is
frequently under stated, substantially so in many cases. It would be
less confusing if the program asked for alkalinity and pH and calculated
bicarbonate, carbonic and carbonate from those two numbers.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *

For -S: I'd guess Boltzmann's constant.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * *
Mark E wants to calculate calories for beer. The basic formula is quite
simple:

Calories/100g beer = 6.9*ABW + 4*(real_extract - ash)

Calories/355 mL (12 Oz) = (cal/100)*[(355*sp_gr)/100]

The problem is that you may not have all the numbers you need. Forget
the ash. Down there in Oz they put not only the alcohol content but the
calories (or is that just on soda cans?) on on label so I presume you
are interested in home brew. To obtain the real extract, accurately
measure a volume of beer (best done with a volumetric flask), transfer,
with rinsing, to an open vessel, evaporate to 1/3 the original volume
(you can boil but a hot water bath is better), transfer back to the
volumetric flask with rinsing, make up to volume with distilled water,
mix thoroughly and measure the specific gravity. Convert to Plato by  P
= 135.997(SG)^3 - 630.272(SG)^2 + 1111.14(SG) - 616.868. Do the same for
the original extract (i.e. the specific gravity of the wort prior to
fermentation). Call the original extract (in Plato) p. Now calculate f =
 .48394 + 0.0024688*p + 0.000015607p^2. Now estimate the alcohol by
weight as ABW = f*(p-P). Divide ABW by 0.79 to get ABV if you want.

If you don't want to go to the bother of determining the true extract
you can probably estimate it sufficiently accurately by taking the
apparant degree of fermentation multiplying it by 0.8 and calculating
the true extract from that. For example 1.052 (13P) starting gravity,
1.012 (3P) ending gravity implies (13 - 3)/13 = 77%  apparent degree of
fermentation. Then 0.8 time this estimates 62% for the real degree of
fermentation and (1 - .62)*13 = 5 is then the estimated true extract.







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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 08:45:48 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: homebrew shops in Nashville

Does anyone know of a GOOD hb shop in Nashville, TN?  I
found one that sells gardening supplies and homebrew kits,
but their selection wasn't great.

Is there a place on the web to search for homebrew shops?

 -Marc



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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:15:45 -0600
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: bug culturing info

     Hello all,

     My 2nd grade daughter and her friend have decided to enter the science
     fair and the friend's mom suggested they compare bacteria found at
     their homes.  When they asked me for info I immediately thought why
     not study yeast, but then I thought this would be a way to identify
     the beer spoilers in my home.  They need some info suitable for
     relatively bright 2nd graders to learn about bacteria (and other micro
     organisms) and how to culture and classify them.  Anybody able to
     recommend any sources available in a typical public library or on the
     internet for them to research.  Maybe they'll finally get me to start
     yeast ranching.  We have a microscope, but no culturing equipment or
     lab apparatus at the moment.  My homebrewing library is relatively
     modest at this time, but I'd be willing to expand it if there is a
     good book covering the subject.  Direct response is fine.

     Regards,

     Lou Heavner - Austin, TX
     <lou.heavner at frco.com>


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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 08:17:59 -0600
From: Bill <bmurray at merr.com>
Subject: Buying casks


Listmembers,

Seeking info on buying casks - new or used. Might anyone have a good
lead? Thanks in advance...

Bill


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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:27:22 -0500 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Jack's Cheeses

Jack,

Some of us are into cheese as another form of zymurgy.  Based on your
enthusiasm I joined the Cheese Digest and my wife, who has supported my
brewing for years, has now taken over in the cheese department.  She's
churning out cheese after cheese.  But they are all ones that have to age
for some time so we haven't enjoyed the results yet.  Like getting into
meads I suppose and having to wait to find out what you did wrong.  It's a
long control loop.  For anyone who hasn't tried this, it really is
complementary to brewing or making wine.  

Dave Houseman


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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:34:13 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: Not Another Hobby... & PB

In HBD #3239 Jack Schmidling wrote:

>These folks
>are a fantastic resource and I have no qualms about milking them.  I just
wish
>some of them would get interested in cheese making, we are still in the
stone
>age there with the blind leading the blind.

Oh, the wife would love that!  Another hobby and more equipment!  ;-)


Marc Sedam also commented on the Practical Brewer:

>Just so you know, the MBAA removed the Practical Brewer
>download.  Maybe there is too much of a good thing.

I'm not surprised.  They probably want you to buy the book or join the
organization.  No free lunch.
Besides, their site probably couldn't handle all the traffic it was
receiving lately.  Talk about slow...

Glen Pannicke



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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:35:49 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: calculating beer calories/ suing microwaves

Mark E asks:
>Just wondering if any of you kind souls know how I can calculate
>the finished food value in calories/kilojoules from the OG/FG
>readings for the finished beer. I am a bit of a fatty and I need to do
>some basic calcs to adjust my weekly beer allowance.

Mark use the standard methods for determining alcohol content of your final
beer by using O.G./F.G. Each gram of ethanol represents about 7 kcal. You
can reasonably assume that the bulk of remaining gravity is from unfermented
sugars/dextrins not "eaten" by the yeasts. These will contribute 4 kcal per
gram.

Jack S has a brilliant idea:
>Considering that a ladder manufacturer lost a lawsuit because there was no
>warning about putting the feet of his ladder in a frozen cow pie, and
McDonalds
>paid millions for a hot cup of coffee, my intuition says the issue is more
urban
>legend that a real problem.
>In our litigating society, it is hard to believe that this danger would
only be
>known because of some caring person on the internet who chooses to remain
>annonymous

This is great! It took awhile before someone sued for coffee burns - this
microwave hazard is ripe for the picking! I'm going to go burn myself right
now....

 -Alan Meeker
 Lazy Eight Brewery
 Baltimore, MD



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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:54:42 -0500
From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com
Subject: Northeast HB Clubs?

Since I've now taken responsibility for our Northeastern Region, would members
of homebrew clubs in any of the great states of Virginia, Maryland, Delaware,
New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, or the New England area be kind enough to
e-mail me with their club's meeting schedule?  I'll assemble a calendar matrix,
and attend meetings as I can while traveling.

Thanks to all of the great folks who responded to my request for club dates in
the Southwest.  Sorry, but I'm bound from Austin to Boston ...

Mark in Kalamazoo




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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:48:30 -0800 (PST)
From: erniebaker at webtv.net
Subject: corona mill adjustment results

On 19 Jan I requested help on the procedures used to adjust the corona
mill.
Below is the extracts of the inputs to my request.

1.  Simply place 2 dimes between the fixed plate and the plate that
rotates (place about 180 deg apart).  Turn the adjustment screw until
the dimes are held between the plates such that they don't fall out.
Tighten the locking nut on the adjustment screw. This is a good starting
adj.  Mill some grain, tighten/loosen the adj as needed.

2.  Use a nickel to initially sat the gap.

3. Adjust the tension till the grains fall thru the mill whole when the
handle is turned. Slowly tighten the tension up while turning the
handle.  When the handle begins to be "bumpy" and you hear popping sound
while turning it, you've hit the sweet spot. Periodic adjusting will be
necessary, also different grains may prefer different settings.  

4. One needs to add spacers of 1/4" thickness to space out the C-shaped
piece that has the threads which hold the screw which applies pressure
to the rotating grinding wheel.  Remove the nuts and add some washers or
oversize nuts.

5.  I have to add a couple washers to space the disc retainer (C-piece)
or (Yoke) out enough to get the adjustment I desire.

6.  I had to space mine by putting a couple pieces of slotted metal
(about 1/20 inch) between the body and the yoke that holds the adjusting
screw. Just back off the screw until the rotating plate wobbles freely,
add some old/cheap grain and adjust as required.

7. The proper gap for the corona mill is 50 mils (0.050 in). This is
about the thickness of a dime.  Place three dimes evenly spaced around
the gap then tighten it. Run couple handfuls of grain thru it, adjust by
1/4 turn of the nut at most before checking the crush again.

8. I use an aluminum throwaway roasting pan to catch the grist, loosen
the setting and start some thru and adjust so all the grains are milled,
but the bran stays in flakes. Sometimes I have to hold the spinning
plate parallel at the end of the grind with pressure on the spinning
plate at the bottom, as the absence of grain at the top will allow the
bottom to gap and whole grain to pass.

Thats about it, the rest of the advice is about the same as above, it
also seems that using dimes to space the plates was the most mentioned
procedure.

At first I thought I was the only one with a corona mill, just by
reading all the posts of brewers using all those fancy expensive grain
crushing devices.  Now I know that there are just some regular folk
(brewers) out there like me.  Hope this info helps and thanks again to
the contributors.

Ernie Baker (Semper Fi)
29 Palms, CA






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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:56:00 -0500
From: "George de Piro" <gdepiro at mindspring.com>
Subject: UV sterilization of wort and general sanitation

Hi all,

Eric Sperber relates his contamination paranoia and asks if the wort could
be hit with UV light to sterilize it before pitching the yeast.

A very large reason for the 60-90 minute boil that you conducted was to
sterilize the wort, so it really does not need to be done again.  Just make
sure the wort chiller and fermenter are sanitary.

Regarding paranoia about sanitation:

Not breathing isn't really going to help anything.  You need not wear rubber
gloves or a surgical mask when pitching your wort.  The few microbes that
float in from the air won't hurt the batch, if you follow this one,
all-important bit of advice:

PITCH ENOUGH YEAST!

I say that a lot on this forum, don't I?  If you pitch enough yeast, they
will grow quickly and begin fermentation, quickly making the wort an
inhospitable place for many bacteria.  The list of beer spoilers is short
relative to wort spoilers, so the key is to make the wort into beer as
quickly as possible.  Pitching an adequate amount of yeast into
well-oxygenated wort is the key to this.

That said, do not think that you can ignore common sanitation practices.
All equipment that comes into contact with the wort or beer must be clean
and sanitary.  That does not mean sterile, but that also does not mean that
if you sanitized a carboy a month ago it is still OK now.

Sanitation, and even sterilization, are of critical importance when
culturing yeast.  When you are dealing with very small numbers of yeast
cells, any contaminating organisms become a relatively troublesome
percentage of the total microbe population.  You need to exercise extreme
vigilance when preparing slants and starting yeast from them (laminar flow
hoods are not necessary - but they are nice).

If you find that you don't have the time or the desire to grow yeast
starters to obtain an adequate number of cells to pitch into your wort, use
dry yeast.  Rob Moline turned me on to some of Lallemand's products and I
have found them consistent and good.  They also come in handy when
refrigeration disasters cause you to lose all of your potential harvest
yeast and you have to start over again, like I have to this coming week.

What a crappy week...

Have fun (somebody has to),

George de Piro

C.H. Evans Brewing Company
at the Albany Pump Station
(518)447-9000
http://evansale.com (under construction)

Malted Barley Appreciation Society
Homebrew Club
http://hbd.org/mbas



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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:00:25 -0500
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Mash Temperature, Radiating uwave doors,skunky and catty

Brewsters:

Fred Scheer got it right that too high
a temperature in the mash will affect
the survival of the enzymes, but not
quite right in the details.

I suppose my primary objection is that
he uses the term "sugars" which to me
means  means mono and disaccharides
and most  are fermentable by yeast.
I assume he did this as a shorthand but 
most writers refer to the higher polymers
of sugar as dextrins or oligosaccharides.
There is a fuzzy area around the 
trisaccharides as some of these
are yeast fermentable. Historically
dextrins mean oligosaccharides
which are not brewery yeast fermentable
and these can vary from beer to beer
as the yeasts and fermentation
conditions vary.

To go a little deeper into the effect of
mash temperature.   There are
many enzyme systems and they are
all temperature dependent to some
extent in that by the time the mash
( e.g. a decoction) or wort temperature
reaches boiling they are all denatured.

Generally,a high mash-out temperature
is used  which stabilizes the
sugar/dextrin ratio by denaturing the
beta completely and reduces the
wort viscosity to make lautering faster
and more efficient. The temperature
is kept lower than boiling for the simple
reason that some alpha amylase is
desired to be around to clean up any
starch which comes into solution as the
temperature is increased. This
helps prevent starch haze. Ultimately
the alpha is also denatured in the
wort boil if not before at around 180F.

But the alpha
and beta amylase enzymes are the
major point of discussion at the moment,
since they affect the dissolution and
saccharifcation of starch. The alpha
chops up the various components of
starch sometimes with assistance from
other enzymes into fermentable sugars
( ~15-20%) and short chain carbohydrates
called "dextrins". These are not sugars
in the normal sense, although they are
made up of sugar molecules (as is starch)
and called oligosaccharides - i.e. long
chain sugar polymers.

The beta chops many of these dextrin 
pieces into shorter chain sugars. Some
brewery yeast can ferment some or
a portion of a dextrin molecule made 
up of three sugar molecules
(e.g. maltotriose) of a dextrin molecule,
but maltotetraose and higher
oligosaccharides are not fermentable
by brewery yeast and are truly dextrins. 

As the mash temperature goes up
the rate of chopping increases but
also the rate of denaturization of the
enzyme increases.  Beta disappears
at a faster rate/degree so the higher
temperature mash has more
unchopped dextrins than a lower
temperature mash.

These remaining dextrins are often
said to make a beer sweet, but not
to me. They do make a beer more
satisfying and perhaps even 
cloying, were it not for the hops.
Pure dextrins do not taste sweet.
These are not fermentable
by yeast and while they can be
fermented by certain bacteria don't
really represent an unusual risk to
beer stability IMHO.  They are a
normal component of beer.

Perhaps Fred was thinking about
starch which will remain if the mash
temperature is too high so that both
alpha and beta are destroyed
prematurely. This can be a stability
risk and a potential for haze.
- ----------------------------
I'd like to see ( if possible) someone
open a microwave door at the speed of
light to allow all those reflecting
waves into the room. My calculations
show an infinite amount of energy
would be required and the door might
even radiate!
- ---------------------------
Eric Sperber suggests he might use an
aquarium for holding his wort before
pitching ( I guess) and using in-line UV
sterilization . If I understood you correctly,
I wouldn't use an aquarium since you do not 
know what sealant is used on the glass
and as you guessed any UV light which
may penetrate the glass or top would
potentially produce at least temporary
skunking. For sure an in line UV sterilizer
would likely wreak at least temporary
havoc in the skunkiness area and may
even bleach the beer color and certainly
coat the sterilizer with gunk, rendering it
useless, if my experience as a
photochemist is a guideline.

Components in the hops are
the source for this skunky odor when
struck by UV light. Use a food grade
container and protect the wort/beer from
UV light. Don't worry too much about 
contamination if you sanitize everything
and pitch enough yeast into a wort
which was cooled quickly. 

On a somewhat related subject,
some time ago a British contributor
opined that they use the term "catty"
odor instead  of skunky, to define this
"sunstruck" odor, since the skunk is
exclusively a "New World" animal
and they do not have an equivalent
animal and have no idea how it smells.

This is not correct as "Ribes" { from
the smell of blackcurrant - Genus
<Ribes> -  flowers, and  <Ribes> where
blackcurrant syrup  "Ribena" derives
its  name} or "catty" odor as the British
define it (M&BS) is correlated with excess
headspace air and is caused by a
ketone not a mercaptan as is
skunkiness.
- ---------------------------
Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley


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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:20:17 -0600
From: Joseph Gibbens <jgibbens at umr.edu>
Subject: Fermenter design

Hello,

I'm working on designing fermenter based on a SS keg and have a racking 
arm idea to knock around.  Has anyone ever tried or heard of using a 
reamed out compression fitting to seal a racking arm in a similar fashion 
to a counter flow chiller?  My idea is to fit a compression fitting to 
the side of the fermenter and run the tube through it. By loosening the 
fitting, the tube could be rotated with a little leakage and then 
re-tightened.  What I'm not sure of is arm placement and length because I 
want to weld a SS cone on the bottom of the fermenter.  Also, in order to 
do the welds properly, they need to be done from the inside right?  That 
means I'd need to cut the top off the fermenter for easy access (easier 
to clean too.  Does anyone have any idea how to get a good seal on a lid 
for a cut off top?  

Joe Gibbens


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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:23:54 -0500
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Cheesemaking

Jack Schmidling writes:

< I just wish some of them would get interested in cheese making, we are
still in the stone age there with the blind leading the blind.>

Perhaps John at "Home Wine, Beer and Cheesemaking" can help.  I would be
surprised if he didn't have an 800 number, but since he is a customer, I
use (818) 884-8586.

Dan Listermann   dan at listermann.com    72723.1707 at compuserve.com


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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:58:48 -0600
From: Eric Schoville <eschovil at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Raw Wheat/Shipping

Is it possible to use raw wheat obtained in a feed store for brewing?  I
assume that I want the feed variety, and not the seed.

BTW, I didn't get any responses on my shipping beer from Germany
question.  Has anyone done it?

Thanks,

Eric Schoville
FLower Mound, TX
http://home1.gte.net/rschovil/beer


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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:12:26 -0600
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: Thermometer preference

Ted asks about a good thermometer.  I went to my local kitchen toys store
(my coffee retailer also has them) and bought a "cappucino thermometer".  If
you look, there is a whole range of kitchen thermometers which are the same
device with different scales.  I bought that one because it had a scale from
32 F to 212 F, which is a Good Thing because I can calibrate it.

It was only CAD$10-12, which would be anything from $8 to $12 USD at retail.
If you look under the dial and there's a nut there, it's worth buying.  A
slightly larger dial would be nice, but the lens makes it readable to 1
degree Farouttasight.
It reads pretty quickly since it has only a 1/8" thick stem.

Sean


Sean Richens
srichens at sprint.ca



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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:20:58 -0500
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at liddil.com>
Subject: guiness acid levels


I forgot to post this before.  Looking at page 37 in the book 'stout" by
lewis one finds that guiness extra stouthas some of the highest lactate and
acetate levels suggesting (and only suggesting) that guinness is doing
something i the process.

Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT




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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 13:28:50 +1000
From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: efficiency & stuff

Steve Alexander in contrast to his usual practise of posting excellent
answers, posts an excellent question directed to Phil Yates after
presenting a number of facts

>  Where's your metric day Phil ?

Gee Steve, that's an easy one to answer.

For us ozzies the 'Metric Day' is everyday that we brew !  If we so
choose, we can design a recipe in our heads ( lets see 4kg malt using
2.5 ltrs/kg needs 10 ltrs strike water).  See all metric.  Uses less
brain cells, hence more home brew can be consumed during the brew
session.

Some of us, particularly if we remember the day that we went metric
(14th Feb 1966), even freely pass from one system to the other, even in
the same sentence.  "Can I please have a kilo  of  2 inch nails".

How's that for choice ?

BTW, please ignore all the above if you were expecting a serious post.

David Lamotte
Brewing a large number of Perches and fathoms from Jeff Renner.





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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 04:00:22 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Malz Bier

LUDWIG'S MALZ BIER

I was on vacation in Germany in 1987 and enjoyed a low alcohol
beer called Malz Bier. This was a dark, foamy beer with a
pronounced malty-sweet flavor.  I've been interested in brewing
a low or NA beer for a couple of years and I had Malz Bier in
mind as a good representative of the style.

I had the opportunity to ask the Siebel Institute some questions
about Malz Bier last year.  Joe Power was nice enough to respond
and he said that this beer was known as Ludwig's beer in the
19th century.  In addition, he said the beer was fermented
with Saccharomycodes ludwigii, a yeast that cannot ferment
maltose, the main sugar in beer wort.  This leaves the beer with
a sweet flavor and that is how I remember the Malz Bier I drank
in Germany.

After a post on the HBD concerning the availability of this yeast
I was contacted by Jim Liddil.  Jim acquired S. ludwigii and
provided slants of the yeast for use in some experimental brews.		

A recipe and some brewing particulars are given below for a beer
I brewed with S. ludwigii.  I named the beer Ludwig's Malz Bier
in honor of Mad King Ludwig of Bavaria.  He built some beautiful
castles.						

Ludwig's Malz Bier	6 gallons			

Maris Otter		4.50 lb	  
Munich Malt		4.50 lbs  
Cara Vienne		0.45 lbs. 
Cara Munich		0.45 lbs. 
Roasted Barley		0.075 lb.

EKG leaf hops		4.2 HBU 60 minutes
Fuggle leaf hops	2.5 HBU 60 minutes
EKG leaf hops		3.0 HBU Steep
(expected IBU ~ 23.6 by G. Noonan's calculation)		

Soft brewing water.  Crush grain with a Corona					
Mash at 150F, 90 minutes using 1.2 qts/lb. water				
Sparge with acidified water stopping at SG 1024
Top up to 7.5 gallons with brewing water
Boil for 75 minutes.  Steep for 20 minutes.
Force chill and collect 5.9 gallons for settling
Aerate by rocking the settling carboy for 4 minutes
Settle for 6 hours

Pump off cold break into two carboys
#1 Pitch with a S. ludwigii starter
 (4 parts DME, 1 part corn sugar)
#2 Pitch with a Wyeast Scotch Ale 1728 starter

The OG was 1048 as determined by a narrow-range hydrometer
The extraction was 60.4% (note:  this compares weight of
the extracted fermentables with the weight of the grain)
or put another way 28.2 pts/lb/gal.

The 1728 half-batch fermented as would be expected.
The S. ludwigii half-batch fermented much slower but still
had obvious signs of fermentation.								
After 5 days both appeared finished with the major fermentation. 		Pump to
secondary carboys and blanket with CO2					
#1 S. ludwigii ~ SG 1045							
#2 1728 yeast ~ SG 1010								

After 6 days in the secondary pump to a keg, prime with corn
sugar and bottle								
#1 S. ludwigii  ~ SG 1044 equivalent to about 0.5% v/v alcohol			
#2 1728 yeast ~ SG 1010 equivalent to about 5.0% v/v alcohol			
(alcohol % calculated by a method given in Homebrewing,
 Vol. 1, pg. 31 by Al Korzonas)							

One area I should mention is sanitation.  I took as much care
with this brew as I can in my basement brewery.  I chose to
aerate by rocking a covered settling carboy in lieu of aeration
with my sterile filtered air system, trying to keep the system
as closed as possible.  I think there's a good chance that this
wort could become infected with a stray basement yeast or other
organism, leading to an unwanted wild fermentation.								
Joe Power suggested pasteurization at 160F for 15 minutes or
storing the beer very cold.  I haven't attempted pasteurization
in my basement brewery so this beer will be stored in my lagering
refrigerator.   In the future I think these beers will have to
be pasteurized to avoid a potential for bottle explosions.			
								
Ludwig's Malz Bier has been bottled for a couple of weeks now
and is well carbonated.  It's really too early to judge it's
mature flavor but it does have sweetness and bitterness that			
tends to offset the worty flavor of NA beers.  The sweetness
is not surprising with a FG of 1044.  In retrospect an OG of
about 1025 might be about right for this type beer.  The beer
probably would finish up around FG 1020 to 1023 and there are
good examples of beers that finish up in that range.				
								
In the final analysis, the use of S. ludwigii makes it possible
for homebrewers to brew a low alcohol beer.  You still get to
do all of the brewing steps that makes brewing beer such a great
hobby and you have a chance to create very interesting beers
that can be enjoyed by the designated driver or by someone that
has to reduce their alcohol intake.								
Thanks to Joe Power and Jim Liddil for their help in the project.								
								
	Bill Frazier							
	Olathe, Kansas							
	Briarpatch Brewing							
								



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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:50:30 -0600
From: "Ed Howell" <edhoel at hal-pc.org>
Subject: Aluminum Brew Pots

In the near future I am planning on building a three
level system using converted kegs. In the meantime
i want to go to all grain brewing. What are the pros
and cons on using aluminum brewing kettles? I have
read that the only problem is durability. Has anyone
in the collective used aluminum and what was the
results?

Thanks,
Ed Howell



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