---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  New Belgium Brewery ("Robert A. Uhl")
  Brew-pubs ("Stephen Jordan")
  Macintosh Calculators ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Lynne's yeast counts ("Alan Meeker")
  GM Foods (Again) (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com>
  Re: Sight Glass (tube) Components/Sources ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Puffy yeast packs + mash out ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  hard/ soft water?? (Mark Zadvinskis)
  Fermenting Temp. ("John Todd Larson")
  Big Brew Recipe - SNPA Clone (Nearly Nirvana) (Chris Frey)
  Immersion Cooling In The 21st Century ("Houseman, David L")
  Outdoor cookers, hop discussions ("Ken Miller")
  Re: Lovibond Ratings and Recipe (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re:cell counts (Jim Liddil)
  Good old Ballard Bitter Recipe? (Chris Ivanovich)
  Updated Homebrew website ("scott")
  hard cider won't clarify ("Andrew Krein")
  Davison Color Guide (Mark Tumarkin)
  Rice Beer And Other Matters ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Share a room in St. Louis this weekend? ("Bruce Garner")
  Survey (David Cords)
  Water Filtration (Jaxson28)
  Freezing LME? ("Troy Hager")
  pH and me (or where is my hot break!) (dstedman)
  Big Brew Recipe Adjustment ("Paul Gatza")
  saving yeast (Warandle1)
  Unitank Ale Conditioning ("Troy Hager")
  keg conversion FAQ (Thomas A Gardner)
  What We Have Here Is A Failure To Read ("Phil & Jill Yates")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Entries for the 18th Annual HOPS competition are due 3/24-4/2/00 
* See http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/ for more information

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 00:47:32 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl at austinc.edu>
Subject: New Belgium Brewery

This last Monday (13 March 2000) my best friend and I visited the New
Belgium Brewery in Fort Collins, Colo.  A very neat place indeed--if any
of you ever see their beers (they are in ten states now), by all means try
them out.  I'm actually not so fond of their flagship Fat Tire Ale; almost
every one of their other beers is excellent, though.  I even like their
Blue Paddle Pilsener, which is strange, because I generally hate lagers.
Go figure...

Anyway, they have an interesting new technique which I thought that I
would share with you all.  It's called, I believe, `wet mashing' (yes, I
know that _all_ mashing is wet; I din't invent the name).  What it
involves is `mashing' the _uncracked_ grains in a seperate mash tun for a
lenght of time, then grinding them and mashing them for good.  The idea is
apparently that the post-soak grinding process yields a more intact husk
which in turn leads to better sparging.  This, at least, was the
explanation the girl giving the tour gave us.
  I imagine that what happens is that the cracking process becomes more of
a squeezong process and the husk simply ruptures at one point, squeezing
out the kernel without shredding to pieces.  Just a guess, though.

Has anyone heard of this?  Is it worth attempting on a homebrewing scale?

Robert Uhl



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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 04:28:46 -0500
From: "Stephen Jordan" <Carrotbay at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Brew-pubs

I'm traveling to the Mystic, New London, CT area this week and would like to
know if there are any good brew-pubs in the area.

Thanks




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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:59:02 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Macintosh Calculators

Simon asked for information on Macintosh brewing calculators.

I forwarded to him the Brewer's Worksheet and the necessary brewer's
macros (Excel) which I found helpful a few years ago.  I downloaded
this from one of the popular homebrewer's websites out there a few
years ago.  (Forget where now.)

I got tired of having to open the macros worksheet at the same time as
the worksheet template and have since added MANY other features to the
original version for my own purposes.  (Lot's of calculations on
theoretical gravity, expected post-boil gravity, boiling time
variables, more accurate calculator for IBUs, color caluclator for SRM
and Lovibond, attenuation, fermentation section, calculation alcohol
content, revised grain specs, allowance for adjuncts, etc. and a new
format.)

It really is very different, but I have not been able to find Darryl
Richman, the originator and owner of the copyright, to perfect it and
to make available to others.  Does anyone out there know how to find
Mr. Richman?  I think he would appreciate some of the changes I've
made to his original version.
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA


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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:54:39 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Lynne's yeast counts

First, a big note of thanks to Lynne O'Conner for posting her results of lab
tests done on commercial yeasts!

Some comments and some questions:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wyeast XL cell counts varied from 15-70 billion in the fresh packs. Pitched
directly in 5 gallon batch this yields about .5-4 million/mL.  In short,
about 2- 10 times below commerical pitching rates (for ale).  I should add
that only two small Wyeast packs were tested and the results were
consistent with large packs, i.e. less yeast proportional to volume ratio.

The self-contained starter in Wyeast packs, even 6 months old, works.  Cell
counts in 6 month old packs risen to 1" were within a factor of two of
fresh packs.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lynne, were these  /viable/  cell counts and do you know if they were direct
counts (using a microscope) or were they from dilution plates?

There has been some discussion recently on the microbial purity of
commercial yeast cultures, was any contamination testing done with your
samples?

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
White Labs yeasts had total cell counts which were a little less than
Wyeast XL.  White Labs cell counts were essentially unchanged after 1
month.  At 2 months, cell counts had fallen nearly an order of magnitude.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ouch! That order of magnitude hurts! Your White Labs results indicate that
one should keep the age of the commercial yeast starter firmly in mind!
These White Labs results aren't too surprising as yeast viability typically
drops off sharply with storage time. What is interesting is that similar
large decreases didn't occur in the 6 month old Wyeast samples (again,
assuming the counts reported were for viable cells).

Yeast viability during storage is dependent upon a number of factors
including; temperature, yeast energy reserve stores (glycogen, trehalose),
and the presence of oxygen to name a few. At a glance, it looks like Wyeast
may have a better handle on optimizing these parameters for long term
storage of their cultures.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Furthermore, I would like to emphasize that
It's best to pitch Wyeast when pack is 1" thick, not when it's fully risen.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why at 1" rather than fully risen?


The differences between the results of your tests and those reported in the
'98 Zymurgy are indeed intriguing. Anyone else have any independent data to
share??

 -Alan Meeker
 Lazy Eight Brewery



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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:40:33 -0600
From: "O'mahoney, Larry (LLOM)" <LLOM at chevron.com>
Subject: GM Foods (Again)

In the recent past, there was debate (and acrimony) over genetically
modified grains/foodstuffs on the HBD. I present this note from the
"National Center for Policy Analysis" to the HBD not as endorsement or
rejection of GM foods, but your reading enjoyment (and to stir the pot
again).

Larry
New Orleans (by job, not choice)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

EUROPE AND AMERICA GO SEPARATE WAYS ON BIOTECH FOODS

It is somewhat symbolic of the international debate over genetically
modified seeds that U.S. executives of the Swiss company Novartis are
stumping the country to assure nervous farmers that big grain companies will
buy crops grown from their modified seeds. Yet executives of the Gerber
Products Company -- which is owned by Novartis -- have announced that they
will not use biotech crops in their baby food. Not that the products are 
unsafe, just that baby food "is a very sensitive area."

It now appears that American farmers are not backing away from genetically
modified seeds. In fact, executives at some of the nation's largest
agricultural companies say it may be too late to turn back the clock on GM
crops. The problem is that it is costly and cumbersome to separate GM from
non-GM produce -- meaning that the likelihood of commingling the two is very
high.

   o   In Europe, the trade in GM seeds and foods has virtually 
       stopped -- while in the U.S. the growth of GM corn and 
       soybeans has exploded.

   o   Almost one-third of the U.S. corn crop and about half of 
       soybeans are produced from GM seeds.

   o   Biotechnology plantings here increased from 16 million 
       acres in 1997 to 62 million last year.

   o   This year, the amount is expected to stay mostly flat, 
       with more than 60 million acres of GM corn and soybeans 
       planted.

About 80 percent of the corn and 60 percent of the soybeans harvested here
are used for domestic consumption and animal feed. 

In 1996, when American farms began shipping biotechnology crops to Europe,
exports of corn and soybeans -- both modified and conventional -- amounted
to nearly $3 billion. But as of last year, such shipments had declined to $1
billion.

Source: David Barboza, "In the Heartland, Genetic Promises," New York Times,
March 17, 2000.

For text 
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/031700sci-gm-farmers.html

For more on Trade Issues 
http://www.ncpa.org/pd/trade/trade1.html

For more on Global Population and Resources 
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/internat/intdex11.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Industry and self-reliance are moral virtues, just as much as honesty and
fidelity. 




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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:21:22 -0500
From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Re: Sight Glass (tube) Components/Sources

Herald asks about sight glass tubes

Mine is made of glass. Though some have built them out of all kinds of stuff.
Teflon tube, Silicon tube, any thing that is semi clear and will tolerate the
heat. I got my assembly for a 6-pack and a smile from my local plumber. Open
your phone book and look in the yellow pages under plumbers and find a really
old plumbing Co.  (Something & Son and & Grandson...) Specifically look for one
that is still working on Boilers.

My sight glass is a commercial sight glass off an old boiler. They did ask me to
purchase new glass (for safety reasons), which they cut to size for me. Also see
if they have the brass safety rods. These have a gravity fit and run through
holes either side of the fittings parallel to the sight glass. This way you can
swing a cat* or a brew paddle around and if you were perchance hit your sight
glass with it, the safety bar will absorb the shock, and you wouldn't have
emptied 12 gallons of 180F spargewater on the floor of your brewery. The latter
occurrence is also prevented (on my system) by the fact that my sight glass
fittings are also valves, so in case of breakage I could turn them off and
prevent spillage. I could also replace the glass during a brew session if I
wanted too.

My welder had a hard time figuring out how to install it though. Apparently he
had never worked with a sight glass before, and since neither had I, we kinda
went down a more expensive path than we needed too. His theory on how to install
the sight glass was that after it was assembled, you couldn't screw both the top
and the bottom in, without removing the glass. And if you did remove it and
screwed them both in and tried to slip it in, it would leak because the fitting
would have to be too loose. Or if you tightened it up, you would break the
glass. So according to his theory, what you needed to do was to install a pair
of unions that you could tighten down independently. So my system has this
beautiful pair of Stainless Steel Unions on it that are totally unnecessary

Why? Because you can in fact remove the glass, install the fittings
independently and then insert the glass between them. That is how they are
designed to work. The glass is attached to the fitting with a rubber gasket
compression fitting. First you have your glass and you insert the brass collars,
then you put on a tight fitting rubber gasket, and install the glass in place.
The collars are threaded on the inside and come down over top of the gasket and
are tightened onto the fitting. This pulls the gasket down against the fitting
and then compresses it against the glass providing a water-tight fit. So don't
over tighten!

8$ for the new glass and a 6-pack, for the device and some more coin for the
unnecessary welding. I could have drilled the holes out, expanded them and built
a bulkhead fitting for the inside of the keg, but that is too much work, and my
welder enjoys my beer...

I hope to see you all at the MCAB!!!!! And be sure to identify yourself as an
HBD'er by putting HBD on your name tag It was really cool last year too get to
know so many of the faces of the personality's I'd been reading over the last
few years.

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery
Jackson MI




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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:50:22 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: Puffy yeast packs + mash out

Dave Burley asked...>>I was puzzled by the comment to pitch (presumably to
a starter) the Wyeast
when the packet ( regular or XL?) is only expanded to 1" high and not to
wait until it is fully expanded. It seems to me that it would be better to
have yeast fully developed to minimize contamination. Please expand your
discussion. Why?<<

I think a one word answer would be because of glycogen levels. Glycogen
being beneficial to the reproductive phase of yeast's life cycle it is best
to pitch a little bit after high kreusen when glycogen levels are highest.
Granted it is impossible to peek into a smack pack and know exactly when
fermentation has slowed slightly; but if you wait til it stops you are
ensuring lower glycogen levels. right, more than one word
 .....................................
S.A. in #3273 recommends not wasting time with a mash-out temperature
boost. If efficiency was the only factor maybe it would be a waste of time,
but there are at least a couple of reasons to raise the grain bed to 170 at
mash out. The primary reason would be to denature the enzyme system and fix
the Real Degree of Fermentation where you want it. The anecdotal evidence
of only a few points of efficiency variation points to this, compare 1 lb
dextrose in a gallon of water =1.036 vs. 1 lb sucrose in 1 gallon=1.044,
same percent solution, lower specific gravity with shorter chain sugars.
Not a problem if you brewed light bodied beers but for a beer with some
body you want to keep the temperature up to prevent reentering the beta
amylase range of activity. B amylase does remain active long past
"laboratory findings" oft cited. Read about the effects of calcium on
enzyme stability. Secondly: mash out, for some as yet undefined reason,
enhances head retention. Possibilities are suggested of the formation of
glyco-protein complexes that are foam positive. Thirdly: there are the time
and energy factors, after finishing a mash I'd like to save time and get up
to a boil as quick as possible, it is much quicker getting to a boil from
170 than 140, and it saves gas, about  40%.
   Caution should be used of course to not exceed 170 to avoid tannin
extraction, a real case of more is not better. So do a mash out at 170, it
will stabilize the results of your mash temperature program and probably
improve foam stability.

Happy first day of spring,
    Del Lansing




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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:03:11 -0500
From: Mark Zadvinskis <mark at sjdesign.com>
Subject: hard/ soft water??

I am quite new to the wonderful world of homebrew, and am quite eager learn
as much as I can.

I have purchase several books, but can find no mention of using water that
has been treated by a water softener.  I have hard water with a lot of
iron, and need the softener to remove the iron.  I then use a post carbon
filter, followed by another filter to remove chemicals and smell.  Is this
acceptable?  Even though the sodium level is raised?  (though this could
add to flavor couldn't it?)  I have considered a reverse osmosis system,
but most only output a trickle of water that would take half a day to fill
a 5 gallon container, not to mention the cost of the system.

Please advise to any options that I should consider. . .beyond going to the
grocery store for water!

If anyone in Ann Arbor is brewing this week, I would love to help!

Thank you,

Mark

Shaun Jackson Design Inc.
PO BOX 130500
Ann Arbor MI 48113-0500

734.975.7500
734.975.7501 fax




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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:12:57 -0800
From: "John Todd Larson" <larson at amazon.com>
Subject: Fermenting Temp.

I would like to find a way to ferment during the mild winters here in
Seattle in my garage.  I need a way to warm things up a little (maybe from
40 to 65 or so).  Any thoughts?

My first idea is some type of warming box I could put my carboy in with a
standard temp controller like most people use to lager in their fridge and a
lightbulb as a heat source.  Anybody have any experience with such a device?
I have limited electrical skills (and don't want to burn my house down), but
can handle basic carpentry.  TIA.

Todd

J. Todd Larson
Treasury Manager
Amazon.com
larson at amazon.com
(206) 266-4367



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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:19:56 -0500
From: Chris Frey <cfrey at ford.com>
Subject: Big Brew Recipe - SNPA Clone (Nearly Nirvana)

OK; a couple of questions have come up regarding my submission of the
Big Brew recipe and I would like to comment on them. First, a
disclaimer. I LOVE THIS BEER! OK, now on to the reply's....	

While I have brewed this all-grain recipe 18 times, each time I have
taken an element of this and modified it. The recipe I shared with Paul
is the closest I have gotten to achieving that SNPA flavor as it comes
out of the bottle. One thing that Paul suggested that we drop out is the
one pound of wheat that I normally add to ensure good head retention. He
was correct in mentioning that SNPA does not use wheat in their grain
bill for SNPA. I will contact him to see if it is not too late to add
back that pound as part of the pale ale grain malt (bump it from 7 to 8
lb..). 

Someone mentioned that my efficiency must be pretty good to get to 1.060
range on just 7 lb.. Half of the reason is above (add the one pound of
pale ale malt or wheat), and the other half is that I do typically get
efficiencies in the high 80% range. Adjust as you see fit. Nine pounds
of base malt will get you there if you get low 70's.

Someone asked about the range that they have seen for Alpha Acid for the
Perle hop. Using my ProMash recipe formulator, I get 39.4 IBU's FWH with
8.0% aa Perle hops (for just the Perle addition). The total IBU's for
this recipe (assuming Cascades of the 5-5.1%aa) is about 46 ibu's, a tad
high for the style, but to my liking. I have used whatever aa% Cascades
and Perles are available, on the market, at the time of my brew. Your
result's may vary...

Someone else asked if I didn't cut down on the Cascades. I did. This
particular recipe closely approximates the actual flavor of SNPA.
However, I have found it to be increasingly yummy and to my liking
(gads, I am stating that I have improved on the SNPA formula TO MY
LIKING!) by using a full ounce of Cascades at 15 minutes, a full ounce
at 30 minutes (not in the recipe I supplied Paul) a full ounce near
knockout and a FULL ounce dry hopping during the last week of secondary
fermentation, for a total of 1/4 pound of Cascade in the process. To
some this may seem excessive, to the members of the brew clubs I
frequent (i.e., hop heads), this appears to not be overkill.

Paul, if it's not too late, let's add back the pound (7 to 8 lb.) with
the caveat that I achieve mid-80's efficiency. Wyeast 1056 is definitely
the recognized yeast for this brew, but i have been assured that White
labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast is virtually identical (and I have used
both side by side with no noticeable differences).


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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:51:29 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Immersion Cooling In The 21st Century

Ah, but is the cooling performance due to the parallel coils or the higher
flow rate or both?  How about running an experiment with the higher flow
rate for just one set of coils and the lower flow rate for both and provide
a comparison of all this data?  

Dave


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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:25:19 -0500
From: "Ken Miller" <kgmiller at oberon.com>
Subject: Outdoor cookers, hop discussions



I just bought my first house complete with a new deck.  Given that the
stove is a brand radiant top models, I'm thinking the deck is a good place
to move the brewery.  Besides, I need a house warming present.

I'm looking for advice on a good general purpose outdoor cooker.  Something
that balances ease of use, efficiency, initial cost.  Basically, if you
could only buy one, which one would it be.

Also, as this is the first time I'll actually own the land I'm living on,
I'm enjoying the discussions on hop growing.  Please keep as much info hear
for those of us who lurk.  Just waiting for HopTech to release this years
rhizomes!!

Ken




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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:05:42 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Lovibond Ratings and Recipe 

Alan is concerned that he cannot accurately judge beer color because
he is color blind.

I'd say "don't sweat it."

Most of the "color" difference in beers is really in the "lightness"
or "darkness" anyway.  Obviously you won't be able to use (easily,
anyway) words like "straw", "amber," "copper," "brown" and so on, but
as you gain experience, you will know what a beer of a particular type
is *supposed* to look like to *your eyes*.  This is the most important
thing.

Color is very unimportant in the grand scheme of beer judging (2
points, more or less out of 50.)  Let your partner judges comment on
the color.  You concentrate on flavor, aroma, mouthfeel, all of which
are more important to bhe overall enjoyment of the beer anyway.

During your practice sessions, you might want to keep on hand some
glasses of beer of known "color".  As I recall, Bass is about 10 SRM,
Michelob Dark is about 17, Budweiser is about 2 or 3.  You should be
able to judge beer color "closely enough" for judging by quickly
comparing the beer sample to the "reference samples."

=Spencer


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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:21:40 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re:cell counts

First there has been some discussion here of genetically engineered crops
etc.  You may want to look at :
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/botanies_pr.html
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html


> From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com>
> Subject: cell counts
> 
> In #3268 Alan Meeker asks "Has anyone actually counted the
> number of cells in one of these XL packs?"
> 
> In 1998 I had both Wyeast and White Labs tested at Analytical Food
> Laboratories in Dallas.  The lab routinely makes tests of this sort.  Tests
> were conducted by a Ph.D. microbiologist.

As I recall most of the guys who built the Mars lunar lander and dsigned
the hubble were "PhD's". :-)
> 
> Additional tests were done on yeasts stored for 1, 2 months (White Labs and
> Wyeast) and 4 and 6 months (Wyeast only). Wyeast were checked immediately
> after breaking inner pouch, at 1" thick pouch, 2 " thick pouch, and 1 day
> after reaching 2" thick.
> 
> Only ale yeasts were checked.  No lager yeasts.
> 
> Here's a summary of the what I consider the most important points of the
> tests.

I would be nice to see all the data so we can draw our own conclusions
about waht is or is not important.

> 
> Wyeast XL cell counts varied from 15-70 billion in the fresh packs. Pitched
> directly in 5 gallon batch this yields about .5-4 million/mL.  In short,
> about 2- 10 times below commerical pitching rates (for ale).  I should add
> that only two small Wyeast packs were tested and the results were
> consistent with large packs, i.e. less yeast proportional to volume ratio.
> 
> The self-contained starter in Wyeast packs, even 6 months old, works.  Cell
> counts in 6 month old packs risen to 1" were within a factor of two of
> fresh packs.
> 
> White Labs yeasts had total cell counts which were a little less than
> Wyeast XL.  White Labs cell counts were essentially unchanged after 1
> month.  At 2 months, cell counts had fallen nearly an order of magnitude.
> 
> Furthermore, I would like to emphasize that
> 
> It's best to pitch Wyeast when pack is 1" thick, not when it's fully risen.

Can you provide inofrmation on the protocols used for this analysis? Was
counting done via microscope or coulter counter? If using a microscope was
it with methylene blue?  Are the cell counts given "total"    or
"vialbe" cells?.  If "viable" how was viability determined?  Determining
viability on samples of les than 90% viability wiht methylen blue is
problematic. Ideally one should use th elside culturee method.


>
> Finally, some posts have made mention of cell counts that have been
> reported elsewhere.  I would like to draw attention to one report--the
> special issue of Zymurgy in 1998.  The numbers in Zymurgy disagree with the
> independent tests at the Dallas lab by as much as 10X.  To be blunt,
> virtually every piece of data in the table including shelf life, price,
> cell counts is dubious in light of the tests done at the Dallas lab at
> virtually the same time the article appeared.


How can you call into question this data when you yourself say that your
sample size was small?  How is it that your testing is anymore or less
valid than that in zymrugy?  One can find the counts I got on white labs
at:

:
http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/Beer/Threads/Threads/thread.953387966.html
 
> 
> The total costs for all the tests I had done at the Dallas lab was a few
> hundred bucks but the cost for cell counts in fresh packs was only $100.
> This would seem to be a rather small investment to ensure accuracy.

I think you need to take a refresher course in precision and accuracy.  In
no way does such a small sample size "ensure accuracy"  One could probaly
get a Ph'd post doc to this for free. :-)

Jim Liddil
North Haven ,CT



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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:32:05 -0600
From: Chris Ivanovich <creature at blacklagoon.org>
Subject: Good old Ballard Bitter Recipe?

I have a tale of woe...

I lived in Colorado for a decade and a half, and, somewhere in there, 
I discovered what I considered to be the finest beer in America - 
Redhook's Ballard Bitter.  What a nose!  Great hop bite!  And just 
the right hint of diacetyl to make it one of the most wonderful of 
drinking experiences (especially when drinking it on tap at the West 

But the pressures of society crashed down upon me, and six years ago 
I was forced to move to the Washington, D.C. area, where Ballard 
Bitter requests were met with a glazed, inbred look and pithy 
comeback of, "Wha?"

I've since moved to Chicago, where beer flows a-plenty, and was 
finally (after three years of searching here) I finally 
found...BALLARD BITTER!

But, alas, 'tis not the same.  The label now says "IPA" and the taste 
is all wrong.

So I did a bit of net research, and found that Redhook has, in fact, 
changed the recipe.  Too bad.  It now blows dead farm animals.

So I was wondering if anyone out there had a respectible clone recipe 
(preferably all grain) for the OLD Ballard Bitter.  I sure would 
appreciate it...

Thanks for lending an ear...er, I mean _eye_,

Chris


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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:48:51 -0800
From: "scott" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com>
Subject: Updated Homebrew website

I have updated my homebrew website.  I have a 2-tier system, with HERM's
recirculator, been using it for a year or so now.  I enjoy the HBD, and it
has
been invaluable in helping me make truly great beer.

http://homebrewery.homestead.com/homebrewery.html

Thanks!
Scott and Karin
Richland, Wa.



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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:15:15 CST
From: "Andrew Krein" <akrein62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: hard cider won't clarify

I've had 5 gallons of apple cider in a glass carboy for about
3 weeks now and it doesn't show much sign of clearing.  The
cider was fresh pressed and then frozen with no preservatives
or pasturization.  The cider was thawed and the only thing added
was 4 lbs of brown sugar and some pectic enzyme.  I used a dry
ale yeast to ferment.

Can something like bentonite or isenglass be used to help
clarify?  I'd like to make this a sparkling cider, bottle
conditioned.  Would this be affected by some clearing
additive?

I'd really appreciate any ideas.

Andy Krein


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:36:40 -0500
From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Davison Color Guide

About a week ago I posted asking if anyone knew of a source for the
Davison Color Guides. AJ found a site, Cascade Brewing, that listed the
color guides in their catalog. I emailed them but unfortunately they no
longer have any. I'd really like to get one of the Color Guides. Has
Dennis Davison stopped making them? Does anyone have a current email
address for Dennis Davison?

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl



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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:22:18 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Rice Beer And Other Matters

Darrell Leavitt asks if anyone has experimented with rice for the production
of light summer beers. I have been mucking about with rice for some time and
my conclusion is that it makes an excellent "ladies" beer. I don't intend
this as a sexist comment. I don't suggest that all ladies must be "ladies".
I once knocked about with a girl around the wilds of Boggabilla who fancied
stout with a drop of sump oil in it. Well that was about how it came in
Boggabilla.

I wouldn't want to go to the other extreme either by suggesting that Eric
Fouch is a "man's man",  though he has been spotted drinking rice beers in
Atlanta bars. Didn't see you at the Mardi Gras this year Eric, are you
slipping?

The first rice beer I ever made was a Czech style pilsner ( now calm down
Doc Pivo, get off that keyboard and let me finish) where I substituted just
under a quarter of the barley in the grain bill with rice. It was an
experiment. I cooked the rice and added it to the mash. I had pots and pans
and boiling water and mash all going at once and it was a hell of a
business. All too hard I concluded. But the end result was a light bodied,
very light coloured crisp beer which Jill and her girlfriends went ape over.
And I do mean ape, Doc Pivo - you might like to experiment with this
yourself! The scenes in the billiard room were extraordinary. Six scantily
dressed women leaning precariously over the billiard table, taking shots and
hoofing into my rice beer.

I've been making rice beer ever since!

The second time I tried getting crafty by cooking the rice the day before
brewing. But this turned into a congealed glob which gave me a dreadful time
during lautering - I would have gladly aborted this one for the trouble it
caused me - but I was determined to get another rice beer out on line, and
the girls were banging at the door! Another success resulted.

Third time round I switched to flaked rice and the process became infinitely
easier. I wouldn't bother trying to cook the rice again. So Darrell to
answer your question, I have experimented with rice beers and have been
forced to keep making them. Be a bit careful not to over hop as you are
dealing with less malt for balance. And lock yourself in the billiard room!!

On the other matter, I see Steve Alexander asking for more than 8kb writing
space in the HBD. Come on Steve, you can't be serious?

I think Pat and Karl have done a great job getting the HBD to run just the
way it is. Steve, if you can't get it out in 8kb perhaps you will need to
write a book, or maybe you will have to shorten that signature of yours,
every byte helps.

Cheers
P
Baron Of The Billiard Room







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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:02:13 -0600
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com>
Subject: Share a room in St. Louis this weekend?

Hello,

I am looking for anyone who might want to share 
a room this weekend in St. Louis. 
I may not be able to go but hope to make it.

Bruce Garner
Madison, WI


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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:32:46 -0500
From: David Cords <dcords at engin.umd.umich.edu>
Subject: Survey

I am doing this survey for my final project for my safety engineering
class at U-M. Please respond by 3/25/00. Thanks
David Cords
Hello my name is David Cords and I am presently in a Safety Engineering
class at The University of Michigan.  The purpose of these questions is
to find out what causes accidents to happen while homebrewing. I also
would like to find out their frequency and ways that accidents can be
avoided while home brewing. Please answer the following questions and
mail back the responses to dcords at engin.umd.umich.edu. Please use any
text editor and save the file as text. All answers will be confidential.



1) How many years have you been a homebrewer?



2) Have you personally had any accidents while homebrewing?






3) If so please describe.







4) Did this accident(s) cause any loss of time from work? If so how many
days?






5) In what stage of the home brewing process do you feel that accidents
are likely to occur?






6) What do you feel can be done to make homebrewing, as a hobby, safer?






7) Would you like to see more about safety and homebrewing in articles
or publications?




Thank you for taking the time to fill out this survey.  As stated above
all answers will remain confidential. Please return to me no later than
3/25/00. Thanks again,

       David Cords




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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:32:36 EST
From: Jaxson28 at aol.com
Subject: Water Filtration

Can anyone point me in the direction of a fast and efficient way to filter my 
tap water?
I brew outside mostly, but I have to fill my mash/lauter tun by carrying my 
sterile 5 gal carboys from inside. Is there a way to hook-up a filter to my 
outside hose so I can easily fill my mash tun when brewing. please help I'm 
getting to healthy carrying those ! at #$ carboys!

Feel free to e-mail me
Jaxson28 at aol.com (Brian C. Jackson)

T.C.B.


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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:46:50 +0000
From: "Troy Hager" <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Freezing LME?

Has anyone ever tried freezing liquid malt extract? I have had problems with
it molding if kept for more than 3-4 weeks or so in the refridgerator. Any
thoughts on this?

Thanks, Troy


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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:21:11 -0600
From: dstedman at csc.com
Subject: pH and me (or where is my hot break!)



Hi -

So I need some information. Clear. Distinct. Just the sweet stuff.

What is my pH supposed to be, AT ROOM TEMPERATURE, at the following stages of my
brew day -

Mash-in (i.e. I've combined my malt and water and it has been thoroughly mixed):
<answer here>

Wort just before starting to boil: <answer here>

Wort at end of boil: <answer here>

The reason I ask is that I just brewed a 1.066 IPA that had virtually no hot
break. I figured it was because my wort pH was too low (5.0  at  70F). But when I
started reviewing my numerous brewing texts and online resources to learn more
about what went wrong, I noticed that there is seldom EVER a reference to what
temperature the pH they are referring to is being taken. And what with the
difference in pH between 70F, 155F (-.3?), and 212F (-.?), I have to say that I
don't know what to believe. I use the expensive pH papers, and I assume (?) that
I have little choice but to let my samples cool to room temperature before
taking a measurement. So that is why I would appreciate a simple,
straightforward, "this is what your pH is supposed to read at room
temperature"-type answer. And could you just humor me and state your responses
in the following format: pH  at  temperature (i.e. a pH of 5.0  at  70F)? Thanks.

Oh, yeah - and please excuse my tone. Not only did I not have any hot break, but
I had a stuck mash using Beeston's Maris Otter for the first time, I ran out of
propane part way through the boil, and my PSB chiller turned my boiling-hot
last-rinse-before-knockout water an interesting yellow color.

It will probably be my best beer ever.

You all are the greatest -

Dan in Minnetonka, MN




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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:39:00 -0700
From: "Paul Gatza" <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: Big Brew Recipe Adjustment

Thanks to all who pointed out the gravity deficiency. I believe Crispy has
already posted a correction but here it is again if he did not. When we
discussed the recipe, I removed the 1 pound of wheat Chris uses, since
Sierra Nevada claims not to use any. The brain freeze from the porter
milkshake I was working on left me numb, and I forgot to add back those lost
gravity points in the form of two row. Duh. Crispy's system gets huge
efficiency, so we have added a ninth pound for those of us who are less
efficient brewers or have less efficient systems. Adjust the amount of two
row based on your system efficiency, so that your target o.g. is 13 Plato.
The target f.g. is 2.8 Plato. The target IBU is 46; feel free to adjust your
hop rate based on alpha. As we are in the second half of the hop year,
expect the alpha to have dropped slightly from the alpha listed at
packaging.

Anyway, before Crispy and I worked out the correction he went back to his
notes and liked some of his hoppier variations. He recommends we go hoppier
at the flavor and dry aroma stages with an extra half-ounce at each point.
SN does not claim to dry hop the PA as they do Bigfoot, but we have left
this as a part of the recipe as a means to achieve that great cascade aroma.
For you hopheads who wish to deviate further, Crispy has suggested an
additional half-ounce of cascade at thirty minutes, with the understanding
that you are going above and beyond the SNPA clone. Here is the adjusted
recipe:

Big Brew 2000, Nearly Nirvana Pale Ale
All Grain Recipe for 5 gallons:
6.5 gallons water (2.5 mash, 4 sparge)
1 T gypsum (unless using hard water)
9 lb U.S. two row malt
1/2 lb U.S. crystal malt  60 L
1/2 lb U.S. dextrin malt
1 oz Perle hops (bittering or first wort hop)
1 oz Cascade hops  (flavor)
1/2 t Irish moss
1/2 oz Cascade hops (aroma)
1 oz Cascade hops (dry hop)
Wyeast 1056 liquid ale yeast

Extract with grain recipe for 5 gallons:
5 gallons water (1 1/2 steep and boil, 3 1/2 added)
1/2 lb U.S. crystal malt 40 L
1/2 lb U.S. crystal malt 20 L
1 T Gypsum (unless using hard water)
6 3/4 lb Alexanders Pale Malt Extract Syrup
1 1/2 oz Perle hops (bittering)
1 oz Cascade hops  (flavor)
1/2 t Irish Moss
1/2 oz Cascade hops (aroma)
1 oz Cascade hops (dry hop)
Wyeast 1056 liquid ale yeast

Paul Gatza (mailto:/paulg at aob.org)
Director, American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO 80302        voice(303)447-0816 x 122
fax (303) 447-2825
Join the AHA at http://www.beertown.org





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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 20:02:46 EST
From: Warandle1 at aol.com
Subject: saving yeast

Hi all,

For the first time I have saved the yeast from a finished beer.  I collected 
it (March 16) from a secondary carboy that sat for 4 weeks at 40 F.  I have 
the yeast in flask at 40 F in a little bit of the beer that I bottled.  Its a 
lager yeast.

How long will it be good/viable stored as it is?  What can I do to keep it 
longer?  I do not expect to brew another batch till 1st or 2nd weekend in 
April.  If I can use it to pitch, what should I do to *prepare* it for 
pitching?

Thank you for your responses,

Will Randle
Ashland, MO


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Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:02:50 +0000
From: "Troy Hager" <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Unitank Ale Conditioning

I have brewed lagers and know that there seems to be a fairly defined 
protocal for the secondary fermentation timing and temperatures, ie. after
the primary fermentation has subsided to either do a dyacital (sp?) rest or
to just bring it down slowly a few degrees per day until you get down to
lagering temps and hold for X amount of weeks.

For ale conditioning it seems much more vague. I have heard everything from
letting it sit in the primary (on the yeast) for as much as 3-4 weeks at
fermentation temperatures, to "crash cooling" it (mostly in brewpubs) to 32F
soon after primary fermentation has stopped. I have even heard of brewpubs
monitoring FG and crashing the beer to stop fermentation when it gets to
where they want it.

Doesn't ale also have to go through a secondary fermentation so the yeast
eat up all of the nasties and clean up the beer? How long does this take?

I ferment in a SS conical and am able accurately control temperature and
also to pull trub and yeast from the bottom. I am wondering how the brewpubs
do this. I had a great email from Charles Hudak a couple years ago about how
he did this but I lost when I moved computers.

So, here are some questions for those of you who know about what they do in
brewpubs. Note, this pertains only to ales:

When do you pull off the trub? When do you pull off the yeast? You can't see
the krausen in a unitank so do you just go by bubbling activity?  Do you let
the beer sit and condition before taking it down to 32F or so? Why have I
heard 32F? What about lower temps?  Do you actually "crash cool" it as they
say or do you step it down slowly? Do you control FG in this way? How long
do you hold it at this very cold temp before transfering it to the bright
beer tanks or kegs? Does the beer then need to condition more in the BB
tanks at serving temps?

I know that with different yeasts you will want to do different things and
will get different results....  What I am looking for here is some general
post-primary techiniques used by those who ferment in conicals with the
ability to accurately control the temps.

Thanks!

Troy


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Date: 20 Mar 2000 16:18:38 -0800
From: Thomas A Gardner <Thomas.A.Gardner at kp.org>
Subject: keg conversion FAQ


I have been trying to locate a copy of the Keg Conversion FAQ written by
Teddy Winstead, but the link in The Brewery Library gets forwarded to a site
that "times out", and I can't figure out how to "gunzip" the file at
stanford.edu.  Does anyone have a copy or information that would lead me to
it? TIA Tom


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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:28:07 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: What We Have Here Is A Failure To Read

I can see Steve Alexander is going to tell me that Doc Pivo and I obviously
went to the same reading school. I have accused Steve of asking for
something he didn't, naughty me.

Steve wasn't asking for more than 8kb for himself, just overall volume. The
whole problem Steve, comes about because the recalcitrant USA refuses to
operate to Australian time zones. This means that unlike you I don't get to
peruse the HBD over a bowl of weeties at breakfast. It arrives for us in the
late afternoon. The girls and I have usually knocked back a few rice beers
by then and things are getting pretty lively in the billiard room. Suffice
to say when I get up next morning I have a very distorted view of what I
thought I read the night before on HBD. And I refuse to read it twice!

As for Doc Pivo, as he advised, it is hard reading anything whilst squaffing
down an ash tray full of cigarette butts - you really have to get onto
this rice beer Doc, it'll keep your hands off butts forever!!

Sorry to misquote you Steve, can't promise I won't do it in the future. I
mean to say, the real truth is I slipped it in at the end of my last post
without alluding to it in the subject title just to be sure you really are
reading my posts. If I ever catch you doing otherwise that invite of a night
with the folks in the Burradoo Billiard Room will be off!!

Cheers
Phil
Baron Of Misquotes








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---