HOMEBREW Digest #3278 Wed 22 March 2000

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  Heating Sorces for Winter Brewing ("Dan Schultz")
  Re: Fermenting Temp. (J Daoust)
  Parallel Coils Or High Flow Rate ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Out Of The Closet? ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  RE: Fermenting Temps (Rick Magnan)
  Thermometers ("Jimmy Hughes")
  Outdoor cookers (Nathan Kanous)
  freezing liquid malt (JPullum127)
  Liddil Flames ("Jim Bermingham")
  Re: Rice Beer And Other Matters (Jeff Renner)
  Water Filtration ("Dave Hinrichs")
  Outdoor cookers, yeast Etc. ("Green, Rob")
  Re: Freezing LME? (Jeff Renner)
  Brewpubs in Salt Lake? ("Russ Hobaugh")
  Wet Grinding ("Houseman, David L")
  RE: Fermenting Temp. (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re: PHD's and Unitanks ("Jim Busch")
  RE: Water Filtration (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Ballard Bitter (Scott Perfect)
  RE: Fermenting Temp. (Jonathan Peakall)
  re: hard cider won't clarify (Dick Dunn)
  re: High FG, mead (Dick Dunn)
  Yeast and Cellar Schedules ("Paul Smith")
  Wet mashing. cider clarification (Dave Burley)
  Planning trip to San Fransisco? (Clif Moore)
  glycogen, Wyeast puffiness, SG, mashout, heat efficiency, (Dave Burley)
  Durst turbo malt (Jeff Renner)
  mashout? ("FLEMING, JOE")
  Re. Maltcicles, Dave Burly ("Jeffry D Luck")
  wet milling/tempering (kathy/jim)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:06:42 -0800 From: "Dan Schultz" <dschultz at primenet.com> Subject: Heating Sorces for Winter Brewing >From Todd: >I would like to find a way to ferment during the mild winters here in >Seattle in my garage. I need a way to warm things up a little (maybe from >40 to 65 or so). Any thoughts? William's Brewing sells a reptile heater pad that can be hooked up to the newer types of temperature controllers that have a heating circuit. Other HB shops sell a heater strap that warms to a predetermined temp (I don't know what that exact temp is but no controller is req'd). I picked up a ceramic reptile heater bulb and built a base for it from a ceramic light bulb base and a junction box. The ceramic heater does not put out any light, its purely infra-red. This is hooked up to my temp controller and can be viewed at www.primenet.com/~dschultz/fridge.html . Personally, next time I would go the reptile heater pad route. Burp, -Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:14:42 -0800 From: J Daoust <thedaousts at ixpres.com> Subject: Re: Fermenting Temp. John, I use a heating pad about 2/3 of the way under my glass carboy. In San Diego's East County it gets down in the 30's for a couple of months out of the year and it seems to work great. The flow of the wort fermenting is impressive if you use glass carboys. With the heating pad it all flows in one circular motion. And it hasn't burned down the garage yet. Jerry Daoust http://members.spree.com/health/dowquest/brewpage.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:12:16 +1100 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Parallel Coils Or High Flow Rate David Houseman asks the question: >Ah, but is the cooling performance due to the parallel coils or >the higher >flow rate or both? And a fair enough question too. Dave, I have only recently moved from brewing 22 litre batches to 44 litre quantities, mainly to keep the girls happy. I used a single immersion coil for the smaller batches. My second immersion coil I acquired some time ago and experimented with using it as a pre cooler by sitting it in a bucket of ice. It was connected in series to the cooler in the wort. It pre cooled the tap water but the result was no apparent time saving at all. So it became largely unused except for the odd throw at me by Jill when she couldn't find the "cat of nine tails" (which I had hidden!). I got the idea of pushing the two together and running them in parallel when I acquired my much loved 60 litre kettle (far too heavy for Jill to throw at me - Dave Lamotte, I am eternally grateful). I think it fair to assume that twice the wort to cool would require twice the surface area of the cooler to achieve the same cooling times, all other things being equal. The parallel operation should have provided a constant, connection in series would theoretically be less efficient, unless the flow rate was changed. Anyway, the first time I used the parallel set up my hoses etc were as per of old and so too my flow rate. Result was the usual "wait forever" cooling time. It was the second time with the new fittings that I let the water fly and down came the temp like a wombat down a gum tree - rapid. No doubt in my mind what has made such a difference. For what it's worth, the Baron Of The Southern Highlands has reported similar results, and he cottoned on to it long before me. But he didn't tell me until I told him what I was planning to do. You just can't trust these New Zealanders, and now after a months leave I go back to work and find I am working for the bastards!! No more sheep jokes, and I'll have to learn to count to sex instead of six. But this is another story yet. Phil Yates Newly Converted Lover Of New Zealanders Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:39:16 +1100 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Out Of The Closet? No sooner do I make mention of gay Mardi Gras when Bruce Garner presents a post like this: >Hello, >I am looking for anyone who might want to share >a room this weekend in St. Louis. >I may not be able to go but hope to make it. If I have opened a can of sick worms I truly apologise to the rest of the HBD. Sorry Bruce, but did you have to post this directly after me? I'm being a bit cheeky and I know Pat is about to ask me to tone it down a bit. Cheers Felippe PS I won't be in St Louis this weekend, sorry. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:06:04 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Magnan <magnan at jimmy.harvard.edu> Subject: RE: Fermenting Temps John Todd Larson asks: > I would like to find a way to ferment during the mild winters here in > Seattle in my garage. I need a way to warm things up a little (maybe from > 40 to 65 or so). Any thoughts? Whats the saying? When you get lemons, make lemonade? I think a lot of people would like to have your problem, and I use the opportunity every winter to brew a series of lagers. My garage stays about 45-50 which might be a bit warm for lagering but seems to work ok. There is a wide range of styles - give it a go. Theres a recipe on the Cats Meow from Bob Jones called Sam Atoms which is a knock-off of SA lager. It uses pale malt and is a lot like making a pale ale with lager yeast, and can be great depending on your hops (and yeast). And its always fun to try making a decent pils. Speaking of the hops in this brew, my favorite made use of US Tettang back about the time when there were a series of HBD posts the this hop was really Fuggles or something. Have there been any updates on this? Rick Magnan Wellesley, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 06:16:37 -0500 From: "Jimmy Hughes" <inspector at bmd.clis.com> Subject: Thermometers There was some discussion about thermometers some time back and I want to inform as to what I have found. Go to, http://www.ncinspections.com, scroll down and click on "Free after rebate". The site has an Acurite digital cooking thermometer with 3 foot lead for $74.99 with a $70.00 rebate, making it only $4.99 plus shipping. They also have other thermometers for sale. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:28:06 -0600 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Outdoor cookers Ken, This may seem intuitive, but be careful with a cooker on your deck. These baby's can get hot. Hot cookers can scorch your deck. Think twice, brew once. I tried to use a small ceramic heater in my fermentation box to keep ales a little warmer for fermenting in the winter the other day. I came to the basement 1/2 hour later to find the 2" extruded polystyrene foam insulation warped, stinking to high heaven and wondering if I narrowly averted a fire. There is a thermostat on the heater, but it only reduced heat output, didn't shut it off. Moral of the story? Think twice. I've had the concrete get very hot under both my Cajun Cooker and my Superb burner. I'd never try either on a wooden deck. Just my $0.02. Hope this helps. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:51:00 EST From: JPullum127 at aol.com Subject: freezing liquid malt good news for you troy, this is an easily solved problem. a local brewpub that uses liquid briess routinely freezes and then thaws extract, this causes no problems whatsoever, an even easier solution to prevent mold is to cover the extract with a thin layer of cheap vodka, this will prevent air contact needed for the mold to grow. as long as you have the container tighly sealed you shouldn't have a problem with evaporation. the vodka is basically tasteless and won't affect your beers taste even if a trace amount would survive the boil Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:16:57 -0600 From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Liddil Flames Jim, sounds like you have been rode hard and put up wet. Woe to anyone who might want to share information with the collective if they don't run it by you first. Yours must be the one and only true path. Makes me want to grab a bag of rice and head down under to look for ladies in some pool hall. Relax a little and have a beer, Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:49:13 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Rice Beer And Other Matters "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> wrote >The first rice beer I ever made was a Czech style pilsner...where I >substituted just >under a quarter of the barley in the grain bill with rice. Like a CAP but with rice. Rice and corn adjunct pilsners are indeed popular with ladies and others who profess not to like full flavored beers. >The second time I tried getting crafty by cooking the rice the day before >brewing. But this turned into a congealed glob which gave me a dreadful time >during lautering<snip> >Third time round I switched to flaked rice and the process became infinitely >easier. I wouldn't bother trying to cook the rice again. If you were to add some malt (1/3 as much as rice) to this and mash for 20 minutes before cooking it, I think you'd have a very easiily handled cereal mash that wouldn't congeal. You might even have 1900 Budweiser. >Six scantily >dressed women leaning precariously over the billiard table A lovely image. SA gets an invite - where's mine? Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:59:31 -0600 From: "Dave Hinrichs" <dhinrichs at quannon.com> Subject: Water Filtration Brian C. Jackson Check at RV stores for water filters. These are the same cartridge filter housings for home use with fittings for garden hoses. You could also easily get the proper fitting at a local hardware store or home center, along with the cartridge filter housing and filters. I would recommend a NSF potable water hose post filter. Also to be found at the above locations. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jaxson28 at aol.com Subject: Water Filtration Can anyone point me in the direction of a fast and efficient way to filter my tap water? I brew outside mostly, but I have to fill my mash/lauter tun by carrying my sterile 5 gal carboys from inside. Is there a way to hook-up a filter to my outside hose so I can easily fill my mash tun when brewing. please help I'm getting to healthy carrying those ! at #$ carboys! Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:00:27 -0600 From: "Green, Rob" <Rob.Green1 at firstunion.com> Subject: Outdoor cookers, yeast Etc. In reply to Ken Miller's post. The only suggestion I would have is to make sure the wind screen/deflector is close enough to the cooking grate/trivet as to prevent heat loss due to cross winds. My cooker's wind screen is a full 3 inches below the cooking grate and in windy conditions I have a difficult time keeping a good rolling boil going. I attached some aluminum flashing with pop rivets around the supports for the cooking grate and that helped. I've seen models on the market that have satisfactory screens, so when buying one keep this in mind. If someone gives you one, like I received mine, and there's a gap between the wind screen and the cooking grate/trivet, visit your local hardware store and pick up some aluminum flashing, it's cheap and you can bend it easily, and you can cut it with a good pair of heavy duty shears or tin snips. Rob Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:12:57 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Freezing LME? "Troy Hager" <thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us> asked >Has anyone ever tried freezing liquid malt extract? I did back when I used it. I think that it preserves freshness even if you aren't having the molding problems described. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:18:50 -0500 From: "Russ Hobaugh" <Russ_Hobaugh at erm.com> Subject: Brewpubs in Salt Lake? I will be visiting the beer wasteland of Utah next week--Salt Lake City in particular. Any suggestions on pubs to visit? I will be staying downtown, but will have a rental car. Any HDB'ers going to be at Brainshare, and want to get together for a brew??? Russ Hobaugh Goob' Dob Brewery, Birdsboro PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:36:17 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Wet Grinding Robert asks about "wet mashing" as practiced by New Belgium Brewery. While I haven't heard that term, there was a thread on HBD some time ago about dampening malt prior crushing. Water mists are applied to commerical grain mills for just this reason. Thehomebrew method presented wasn't to soak the grain, but place the uncrushed malt in a bag with (I may not have the number right but) approximately 1 tablespoon of water per pound of malt for an hour. I don't have the mail handy; it should be in the archives. I did that and it did result in less ground husk; it did what it set out to do. However in my processes, I don't think it resulted in better beer because I use a long recirculation time with a RIMS. So I probably already filter out more bits than many people do. David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:33:40 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Fermenting Temp. Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:12:57 -0800 >From: "John Todd Larson" <larson at amazon.com> >I would like to find a way to ferment during the mild winters here in >Seattle in my garage. I need a way to warm things up a little (maybe from >40 to 65 or so). Any thoughts? First, keep it off the cement floor which could conduct a lot of the heat away. Then, for something quick and easy, you could place the fermenter into a picnic cooler with perhaps another one upside down to form a closed insulated box. I have used a simple drugstore heating pad as the heater. This would eliminate the light problem with a bulb and the bulb is very fragile. The heating pad can be wrapped around the fermenter and held on with a bunge cord or two. If the heating pad has several settings, this may be all you need. You could get fancy and install a thermostat and controller. For a thermostat, I have found Radio Shack puts on sale every year a nice digital remote probe thermostat for around $10 - great price and very handy. I use it in the fridge, on fermenters, and even to read the room temperature. It too is just taped or bunge corded to the fermenter. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu http://hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:11:17 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: Re: PHD's and Unitanks Jim Liddil tried to make a funny but I have to comment on this: <As I recall most of the guys who built the Mars lunar lander and <dsigned the hubble were "PhD's". :-) It was the Mars Polar Lander and Id be surprised if the engineers who designed/built/tested the suspect landing gear/breaking system were PhDs. Also recall that Hubble had a defect in the production of the primary mirror which was due to incorrect alignment of the test rig, not a design flaw. In fact the nature of the defect being a perfect "imperfection" allowed NASA to remedy the situation and return Hubble to the world class observatory that it is today. Why these events draw such attention while the DoD blows up rockets worth 2 Billion+ and thats on page 14 of the daily news is always a mystery to me. Troy asks about unitank conditioning.... one thing you didnt mention is does your tank hold pressure? I sure hope so, cause thats a key factor in my mind of why a uni is so handy. (you can even filter right out of the uni into kegs if it holds pressure). <When do you pull off the trub? When do you pull off the yeast? You Trub can be blown down on days 1/2 of primary fermentation, or allowed to combine with the initial yeast dropping out and blown down later. I usually do both, blow down on day 1 to get hop matter/trub off the bottom and then wait till I get some flocculation to reduce yeast load. Most of the yeast load is dropped after the temp is reduced. < can't see the krausen in a unitank so do you just go by <bubbling activity? You can but its much more elegant to do a forced fast ferment of your wort to obtain the optimal terminal gravity. Then you monitor the SG via the zwickle port, and spund the tank to develop natural pressure when you are within .5-1.5P of terminal. Once the tank is spund, and I get 5-8 psi on my gauge then I start the 2-5F drop per day temp reduction. You can also let the pressure develop to closer to 1 Bar and then reduce the temp, since the pressure will then drop according to PV=nRT, and pressure goes into solution at colder temps. A big part of this game to me is getting as much CO2 from the ferment as possible. < Do you let the beer sit and condition before <taking it down to 32F or so? Why have I heard 32F? By ramping down no more than 5F per day you are essentially allowing the yeast to slow down and finish while flocc'ing out. Alternatively, assuming the beer is at your desired characteristics you can crash cool to drop yeast and proteins. But if you crash cool you want to be at terminal already. < Do you control FG in this way? If you want residual sugars above the terminal gravity then yes you can crash cool to try to kill the yeast before it reaches terminal. There are very few cases where you need to do this IMO. I would suggest adjusting the recipe and mashing program to control real degree of fermentation and not rely on crash cooling. I personally prefer well attenuated beers where the recipe fixes the body, mouthfeel and residual sugars. <How long do you hold it <at this very cold temp before transferring it to the bright beer <tanks or kegs? Long enough to drop out the yeast and proteins that will flocc out with temp. Depending on strain this could be days or a few weeks. Nice thing about a uni is you dont care, the yeast and trub are gone and assuming its sanitary your beer is in a container like a keg so its not deteriorating esp at low temps. So go back to that trusty zwickle every few days and using the pig tail to reduce the pressure drop (so you can pour a glass of beer and not foam), do the difficult task of taste testing the beer. You will easily be able to determine when the beer turns the corner and is ready. Keep looking, smelling and tasting, and use the hydrometer too. For a datapoint most HopDevil is fermented in a few days and allowed 2-3 weeks cold conditioning time prior to filtration. While ale can be pushed through in as little as 6-8 days I find the results much better at 21-28 days cycle time. <Does the beer then need to condition more in the BB <tanks at serving temps? Not if conditioned in the uni and then filtered into the Brite tank. Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:09:56 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Water Filtration >From: Jaxson28 at aol.com >Is there a way to hook-up a filter to my outside hose so I can easily fill my mash tun when brewing Just get a 10 inch filter housing and charcoal cartridge for it. You can find the housing that has standard threaded NPT threads for input and output. Make up a hose coupling to the NPT threads for the input side and connect to the end of your hose. For the output side, get a hose barb fitting to NPT, and you can discharge directly into the HLT, or you can put a bit of vinyl tubing onto the hose barb. Hint: You can get everything you need at Sears, and a real hardware store. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu http://hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:36:23 -0800 From: Scott Perfect <perfect at marzen.llnl.gov> Subject: Ballard Bitter Chris is seeking info about Ballard Bitter. >From the brewery fact sheet (several years old): 2-row Klages (just read this as 2-row pale) 40 L caramel (I would guess about 10%) color described as "brass" OG 1.0445 Eroica, Willamette, and Cascade (Guess 40 IBU?) "Top Fermenting English" yeast, same listed for ESB Wyeast 1968 would be my choice. Scott Perfect Livermore, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:42:34 -0800 From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org> Subject: RE: Fermenting Temp. Howdy all, John wrote: >>I would like to find a way to ferment during the mild winters here in Seattle in my garage. I need a way to warm things up a little (maybe from 40 to 65 or so). Any thoughts? I use a high quality aquarium heater. I know some regard it as a sanitation issue, but I bleach soak overnight between uses, rinse, and then idophor. It does a terrific job of maintaining 60 degrees fer me. And I live in a '70's hippie shack out in the woods, where insulation is considered a cuss word, so my house has dramatic temp changes. >>My first idea is some type of warming box I could put my carboy in with a standard temp controller like most people use to lager in their fridge and a lightbulb as a heat source. Anybody have any experience with such a device? I have limited electrical skills (and don't want to burn my house down), but can handle basic carpentry. TIA. I made one of those once. It took a fan to keep the temp even, and took a while to achieve the desired temp. It was kinda bulky, and when I moved, I left it behind. I am considering making one out of a chest freezer that I purchased, but also have thoughts of lagering in it. Instead of lights in the one I made, I used "golden rods", small tube shaped heaters you (used to?) get to keep a closet from mildewing, as I worried about the effect of light on the beer. Overall, I wouldn't bother with a plywood box, because on can get old chest freezers so cheap, and of course it will cool in summer as well. And I bet you couldn't build a box and insulate it for much less than you could get a chest freezer for. Overall though, I love the aquarium heater. Easy and simple. Of course, if you live in an area of high temperatures, it doesn't help like a insulated box would. Me, I just stick beer under the house in summer. Right next to where my dog hangs out on hot days! Jonathan Peakall Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Mar 00 09:37:35 MST (Tue) From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: re: hard cider won't clarify "Andrew Krein" <akrein62 at hotmail.com> wrote: > I've had 5 gallons of apple cider in a glass carboy for about > 3 weeks now and it doesn't show much sign of clearing... 3 weeks isn't a particularly long time. What was the OG? What's the current SG? >...The > cider was fresh pressed and then frozen with no preservatives > or pasturization... Depending on the pressing techniques (grinding technique, whether a press bag was used), you may have a whole lot of pulp in the cider, enough that it's just not going to want to settle nicely. If there's a fair layer of sediment now, try racking and wait at least a week to see if it starts to fall clear. > Can something like bentonite or isenglass be used to help > clarify?... Fining will work (but don't use gelatin), although it will strip out some color and flavor. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA ...Simpler is better. Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Mar 00 10:01:48 MST (Tue) From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: re: High FG, mead A while back, Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> wrote: > Dick Dunn says: > > "Realize that meads are no where near as susceptible to contamination > as beers" > > I'd like a further explanation of that, please as I can't help but > feel that unpasteurized, diluted honey would have scads ( that's > >10^ 6/ml) of bio-contaminants - far more than a boiled wort. I wouldn't advise using diluted, otherwise-untreated honey for a mead must (although I know mead-makers who do so successfully). What I really meant was that mead musts do seem to survive OK with long start-lag times, only ordinary care in sanitation, etc. Contaminated meads are quite rare, while contaminated beers are unfortunately common among novices or even experienced brewers whose care slips. As to *why*--sorry, Dave, I don't know! I wish I did. I'm speaking from experience, not theory. The experience is broad enough to make me believe it...but that's not very satisfying when one wants to know "WHY?!" It would be cool if somebody did a handful of studies--like cell counts on the Bad Guys on an untreated mead must, a heated must, a sulfited must... and then checked these meads several times during fermentation. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA ...Simpler is better. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:33:20 -0600 From: "Paul Smith" <pksmith_morin at msn.com> Subject: Yeast and Cellar Schedules Troy asks for some "general" information on cellar scheduling. Troy, my short answer is that I don't think it is possible to give any truly useful general information, because the operating environment for a brewery's yeast is so distinct. Not only does each strain have its own set of characteristics, but each strain within each brewery will have a unique character and associated behavior, as you said. That being said, I can tell you what we typically did at Goose Island (micro, not brewpub) where I worked. For Ale: Day 1-3: ferment at 67. Day 4-5: continue at 67; dump yeast (harvest "second layer") on day 5. Day 6-7: continue at 67. Day 8: crash to 29, if diacetyl test confirms reduction. Day 9: dump yeast Day 9-14: crash; filter & transfer on day 14. Dry-Hopping schedules: Day 1-3: ferment at 67 Day 4-5: continue at 67; dump yeast on day 5. Day 6: Add dry hops (slurry) & steep/condition to day 8. Day 7: continue at 67. Day 8: crash to 29, provided diacetyl test is passed. For lighter nose beers do not crash until day 9, to ensure that diacetyl is removed. Day 9: dump (hops, yeast & trub) Day 9-14: continue at 29; filter & transfer on day 14. All ales are sampled for gravity on days 1, 3, 7, and 9. The diacetyl test consists of drawing a sample and warming it to low tea temperature, then nosing it for butter or butterscotch aroma. Keep in mind that this yeast is a very finicky strain, and historically it would drop out very easily (and die almost immediately) if it was messed with too early or too much. Other breweries may do mini-dumps, for instance, on days 2-5 (or, as in England, as we saw, they skim every 4 hours on krausen formation). **** Robert Uhl posts a great piece of info on malt conditioning ("wet mashing"). I have seen it described in Kunze and know of its use at larger breweries, esp. German breweries. Its purpose, as Robert aptly intuits, is to allow for a finer grind than normal as the intact husk provides for a greater filtration, and thus yield is increased. As a homebrewer, I gave a thought to spraying down my malt prior to crushing, then running a finer crush on husk separation, but have never bothered. My yield is where I want it already. I don't expect that I will do ever do it commercially (mostly because I do not believe the extra expense for a 4-6 roll mill is worth it at 2 -15K bbls annually, and a "two" or "three" pass milling system is endemic to the wet conditioning process). Cheers, Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:40:08 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Wet mashing. cider clarification Brewsters: Robert Uhl toured the New Belgium Brewery and the tour girl told him they use a process called "wet mashing" in which the malt is wetted down or even soaked before crushing. Robert asks if this is a new process and if we can try it as homebrewers. The nice thing about homebrewing is that we can try anything! But this method of wetting the malt before crushing called "tempering" the malt is not a new one. Or maybe the tour guide meant "wet milling" instead of wet mashing ( they almost sound alike don't they? And the grain does get sort of mashed in the non-brewing sense). This is a standard method in many breweries. The difference between tempering and wet milling is the amount of water and the design of the mill. If you want to try tempering, just stir in well a cup or two of water to the dry malt and allow it to stand covered with a plastic sheet or lid for an hour or so before you crush it. The malt should not look wet and should still be free flowing This will make the husks less fragile and keep the dust down a little. I would not recommend wet milling if you use an electricity powered crusher or it may be a shocking experience. The mess of the cleanup in any event is not worth it, I'll bet, even if your mill could take it. If you just want to see, try soaking some malt in cold water overnight and milling it through a food processor or a blender. I did it this way in the dark ages of homebrewing before I had a home mill and when there were no HB stores, and no mill suppliers and I got my malt as a gift from a local maltster, etc. It is a PITA, but it works, sort of. I have used this method for cooked barley successfully. A coffee mill worked better on dry malt. I burned several of those up, and eventually I converted the mill parts ( not unlike a Corona mill) to run with my drill motor. And then, happily, I got a real roller mill after several excursions into trying to make a noodle maker work. If you want whole husks and excellent lautering, I suggest you try the roller mill and the double crush method I have outlined in the archives. It produces excellent lautering results and high efficiency to boot. - ------------------------------------------- Andy Krein asks for advice on clarifying his cider. Try some pectic enzyme on a small portion first. Likely this is the problem. If not, then move on to other clarifying agents also on small test portions of your cider until you get it right. In a mild flavored beverage like cider, additions of clarifying agents can affect the flavor ( especially things which remove tannin- like gelatin). - ------------------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:52:18 -0900 From: Clif Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: Planning trip to San Fransisco? John is Planning trip to San Fransisco and asked where to go, so: I am just back from a few days in San Fransisco. My objective was to efficiently spend my free time exploring the micro brew and brew pub landscape. It is a surprisingly target rich environment and I could have spent months in first level exploration. The most fervent recommendation I can make is for the Toronado Bar. This fine hole in the wall is a celebration of fine beer on tap. I have never seen so many taps behind one bar. They are lined up and stowed away in every part or the bar. They offer micro brews and Belgian ales. This gives an indication of the priority. The best beer the world has to offer combined with the offerings of the local environment. They are noted for keeping their beer fresh and their lines clean and offering good value for the beer drinking enthusiast. The Toranado is on Height at Filmore and is easy to get to on many west bound busses from Market Street. Get off at Filmore and it is on the south side of Height. You owe it to yourself to put this one on the short list. I did not have any bad experiences with the few brew pubs I had time to visited, and I will place them in the order that I would return to them in. Twenty Tank Brewery and Pub 316 11th St. West on Market to 11th then south a few blocks. Rough cut decor and many fine brews. Magnolia Pub and Brewery 1398 Height St at Masonic The same bus that got you to the Toranodo will take you out to the 60s Meca of the Height - Ashbury district. The Magnolia is a nice upscale atmosphere with good beer and good food. Thirsty Bear Brewery and Pub 661 Howard St. A few blocks south of Market near the financial district. There is nothing wrong with the open floor plan upscale brew pub style of eatery. That is if they pay attention to the brewery part of the operation. They offer a variety of clean drinking beers with the Golden Vanilla standing out as making me question my personal feelings against flavor additives in beer. The addition of vanilla into a summer pale or wheat is a definite area for investigation. You will enjoy yourself. Clifton Moore Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:47:57 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: glycogen, Wyeast puffiness, SG, mashout, heat efficiency, Brewsters: Del Lansing's response of why to pitch a Wyeast packet to a starter being glycogen content doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. I would think, since you are going to pitch this to an oxygenated starter, the more viable yeast bodies the better and the puffier the packet, the more CO2 ergo the more yeast growth one would have. Is this not correct? I wonder if there is a set of data which demonstrates the difference of pitching a Wyeast package to a starter when the packet is at 1" versus when it is fully expanded? Although Lynne O'Connor apparently set up this experiment, I didn't see the comparative results in the presentation, just the statement to pitch at 1" Did I miss the data somehow? Or viable yeast populations versus puffiness? I always assumed the 1" Wyeast recommendation was a minimum not an optimum. Also in Del's dissertation, he comments that 1 lb per gallon of dextrose has an SG of 1.036 and sucrose an SG of 1.044. And blames it on the "chain length" of the sugar. Sucrose is like two dextroses ( actually glucose and fructose) hooked together and specific gravity is not a colligative property when I last looked. I am at a loss to explain these data ( were they from the same quality reference and under the same conditions?) , but if true, I assume it has something to do with hydrogen bonding affecting density as in alcohol/water solutions. Anyone have a reference? As far as mashout temperature, Eric Warner and Kunze believe heating to 169F or so is done to speed up the alpha amylase activity ( and not to destroy the alpha amylase specifically) to chew up any remaining starch ( and form dextrins) which is released on the heatup. This prevents starch cloudiness ( which Kunze calls a "blue brew" due to the iodine test). Beta amylase does last longer in a mash than in laboratory glass but although more active, it is pretty much denatured ( permanently inactivated) in about 15 - 30 minutes at 158F even under the best of circumstances. Allowing the mash temperature to fall "into the beta range" will not cause any more beta amylase activity as Del seems to be implying. Of course, the mashout at 169 -170F guarantees the disappearance of the beta amyalse and therefore prevents the further reduction of dextrins to fermentable sugars thus stabilizing the dextrin content and the attenuation limit of the wort ( as Del suggests) , with a minor exception that alpha amylase can produce some small percentage of these fermentable sugars. Kunze says "mashing for a long time at 162-167F ( 72 to 75C), a dextrin-rich beer with a low attenuation limit is obtained." This leads me to believe that even with a mashout at 169F, there is still some alpha amylase activity around until the boil, but that it is inconsequential without starch, since the beta is destroyed at these high temperatures. The lower viscosity of the higher temperature mashout does speed up the lauter, especially in difficult glucanaceous mashes like rye and wheat beer. Remember also about a third to a half of the wort has to diffuse out of the capillaries of the grain and extraction efficiency is therefore sensitive to viscosity and therefore temperature. Under normal circumstances the mashout is also a guarantee of starch haze free beer. I see no rationale for Del's contention that heating to a higher temperature in the mashout somehow saves on heating expense. In the mashout, you have to heat both the grain and the wort. Not exceeding 170F in the mashout to avoid tannin extraction, as Del contends, is a new one to me, as tannin extraction is pH dependent, less soluble at lower pH, and the higher temperature wort will have a lower pH. It may be true that the tannins will be more ionized at the high T, which COULD increase solubility, but I know of no data which suggests that the temperature difference of 169 to 171F or whatever is significant to tannin solubility. It is true that decoction worts contain more tannins than infusion mashed worts, but they have been boiled. Del, do you have a reference to this? What is important , is that during the sparging that the pH of the sparging liquor be kept about 5.8 or lower to minimize tannin extraction. This pH minimizes the ionization of the tannins ( which are weak acids) and therfore the solubility of the tannins. Based on this information, I assume the pH of the wort in the mash, being in the ball park of 5.2 or so, would minimize the tannin solubility even at 170F which is also the sparge temperature. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:10:42 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Durst turbo malt Brewers I've just discovered that GW Kent is importing a German Durst malt called "Turbo-malt," an overmodified pilsner malt (they also make Vienna and Munich turbo) for quick conversion in the mash tun. It was evidently developed for a brewery in Germany, I which I think brewed only two bock beers, and other German brewers are also using it. Apparently brewers can save a great deal of time by getting complete conversion in something along the lines of 15-20 minutes. They are selling a bit of it here in the US to micro brewers. I remember George Fix posting to HBD sometime ago concern that increases in modification of continental malts was leaading to "dull" beers. I've asked his thoughts on this. Here are relevant analysis data for two recent lots: Target Regular "Turbo" Moisture <4.5% 4.3 4.5 Extr. dry >81.0% 82.5 83.7 Extr. diff 1.0-1.8 1.7 1.3 Wort color 3.0-4.0 3.3EBC 3.5 Boiled color5.0-6.0 5.4EBC 6.0 Protein% <11.5 10.6 10.5 Sol. N dry .670-.830 0.747 0.850 Kolbach 42.0-46.0 44.2 50.7 Hartnong >40.0 41.4 48.9 pH wort 5.6-6.0 5.70 5.69 Viscosity <1.55 1.51 1.46 Friability >78.0 80.0 83.0 Betaglucan <250mg/l 156 125 Diastatic >250WK 305.0 315.0 Final atten >80.00% 82.25 84.29 Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:06:00 -0500 From: "FLEMING, JOE" <JOE.FLEMING at spcorp.com> Subject: mashout? I have humbly questioned the value of the mashout in the past. I have questions about two of Del's pro mashout reasons: >The primary reason would be to denature the enzyme system and fix >the Real Degree of Fermentation where you want it. Might this effect be overstated, especially if you sparge at mashout temps & recirculate? If its not overstated then I would agree (depending on grain bill & style brewed)! >Secondly: mash out, for some as yet undefined reason, >enhances head retention. Possibilities are suggested of the >formation of glyco-protein complexes that are foam positive. I've not heard this before. Can anyone else speak to this argument? I'm not doubting it -- skipping mashout may be the reason why, by rote, I dump an extra 1/4 # of wheat in each of my brews for head retention! Another reason I've heard is to break down dextrins and make the lauter run more smoothly. Since I mash and lauter in the same tun and don't experience stuck lauter problems (grain bed sets once and remains undisturbed) I can't really speak to practical issues involved with this. I would suspect that most of the non-direct-fired tun mashers (awkward phrase of the Digest award) skip mashout. Joe Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Mar 2000 17:08:35 -0700 From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck at aexp.com> Subject: Re. Maltcicles, Dave Burly Troy asks: >Has anyone ever tried freezing liquid malt extract? I have a supplier who freezes his LME in the summer months, especially the lighter stuff. He sells it sealed in plastic bags, bulk style. I've used this often (thaw it first), and noticed no taste difference. Dave Burly - It's good to have your posts looking a little more readable these days. Thanks. Jeff Luck Salt Lake City, UT USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 20:03:21 -0400 From: kathy/jim <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: wet milling/tempering Rober Uhl writes.... Anyway, they have an interesting new technique which I thought that I would share with you all. It's called, I believe, `wet mashing' (yes, I know that _all_ mashing is wet; I din't invent the name). What it involves is `mashing' the _uncracked_ grains in a seperate mash tun for a lenght of time, then grinding them and mashing them for good. The idea is apparently that the post-soak grinding process yields a more intact husk which in turn leads to better sparging. This, at least, was the explanation the girl giving the tour gave us. I imagine that what happens is that the cracking process becomes more of a squeezong process and the husk simply ruptures at one point, squeezing out the kernel without shredding to pieces. Just a guess, though. Has anyone heard of this? Is it worth attempting on a homebrewing scale? Jim Booth answers.... Every year or so I write on HBD touting the virtues of conditioning of malt before milling. Wheat millers temper the bran to strengthen the bran and prevent little bits of bran from getting in the flour. I recommend the addition of 2 tbls of water per pound of malt a half hour or so before milling, stirring the grain and covering the container to let it set. Some brewers add water at the conveyer to the roller mill hopper and wet mill the malt. This also reduces dust and the chance of dust explosions (and reduces insurance rates). In my tests of the milling of conditioned/tempered malt vs dry malt, I found much larger flakes of bran above the test sieve and substantially more fines passing through. The milling effort was less and dust less compared with dry malt. When 4 tbs/# were used, the grain mushed and was very difficult to pass through my Corona mill. Sorry but I don't have a big budget roller mill to run the tests on, but with the tempering, I feel the cheap Corona give a great grind (heresy, I know). How about one of the gurus of HBD running a test on their high faluting roller mills and reporting? Maybe Jack S. could put aside his curds and whey and give it a try? Past invites for such a test have have not gotten comments. cheers, jim booth Return to table of contents
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