---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Iron - good bad or indifferent? (jafjmw)
  Re: Hard Cider won't clarify ("Tim Green")
  Davison Color Guide (Jim Jesse)
  Sight tubes and a rye question... ("Guy and Norine Gregory")
  RE: Planning trip to San Fransisco (scott)
  re:Outdoor cookers (Aaron Perry)
  Windscreen clearup (Aaron Perry)
  Party Poopers ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Brew Pubs in Orlando (Stefan.Markl)
  Re: outdoor cookers ("Doug Moyer")
  Weizen ("Pitchford, Andrew")
  Chill haze ("Chris Schmidt")
  re: hard cider won't clarify ("Nigel Porter")
  Heating Sorces for Winter Brewing (Lostboy676)
  re:puffy yeast, tannins ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Re: mashout? (Jeff Renner)
  Yeast dump from a conical ("John Todd Larson")
  Competition Brews (Bill Tobler)
  Salt Lake City beer ("Matt Hollingsworth")
  Diffusion during lauter? (Lou.Heavner)
  The Great Pilsener Pub Crawl ("Philip J Wilcox")
  water chemistry (Marc Sedam)
  Real Ale this weekend ("St. Patrick's")
  More Fullers Info ("St. Patrick's")
  Czech Double Decoction ("St. Patrick's")
  porch burners & wet milling (AKGOURMET)
  clear plastic carboys/fermenters (Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger)
  Mashed Rice For Dinner? ("Phil & Jill Yates")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Entries for the 18th Annual HOPS competition are due 3/24-4/2/00 
* See http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/ for more information

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:09:14 +0000
From: jafjmw at wlsfn.force9.co.uk
Subject: Iron - good bad or indifferent?

A combination brewing / cooking question. Everyone agrees that lead is
poisonous; aluminium is debatable. What about iron? I am thinking
mainly about rusty woks and frying pans, but also about iron water
pipes and other sources of iron or iron oxides in liquid or solid
foods. Are they harmful, beneficial as dietary iron, or irrelevant?
Thanks
Adam Funk





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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:59:35 -0500
From: "Tim Green" <timothygreen at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hard Cider won't clarify

Andrew writes:

<3 weeks now and it doesn't show much sign of clearing.>

If you have only had the cider in the carboy for 3 weeks after frementation
has ended,
you are in a bit of a rush for it to clear. I have had ciders take as much
as 4 months
or more to clear.

If you want to rush it, bentonite should work, sparkelloid also works very
well, but
you need to let the cider rest for 2 weeks after using it and you might have
to rack
it a couple of times to get rid of all the sediment.

Hope that helps some...

Tim Green





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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:06:55 -0600
From: Jim Jesse <jjesse at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Davison Color Guide

I asked Dennis via e-mail and he has stopped producing them.  Only hope
is used or new old stock.



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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:37:25 -0800
From: "Guy and Norine Gregory" <guyg at icehouse.net>
Subject: Sight tubes and a rye question...

Colleagues:

I posted my sight tube design in HBD 2786...I used 1/8 inch MPT by 1/8 inch
tubing compression elbows, and about 1.5 feet of teflon tube.  My most
valuable suggestion: make sure the top fitting drains back into the kettle,
not on top of the kettle...big mess otherwise.  Mine was about 3 bucks.
Works great.

Anybody making rye beer?  I'm working on my already award-winning recipe for
this thirst quencher.  My last one I used Wyeast Irish....I know, more
suited to porters and stouts, but my what a good attenuator, and it adds a
really nice profile to a simple barley/rye mix.  And, I used the wyeast
tubepaks, not the smakpaks.  Very nice, and I look forward to brewing a
lager with that convenience, without the uncertainty of startermaking.

Cheers, all.   Good to read you from time to time.  I miss AlK, don't you?

Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
Spokane, WA
Hope y'all have fun in St. Louis....





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Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:02:21 -0800
From: scott at wilderglass.com
Subject: RE: Planning trip to San Fransisco

Thirsty Bear brewpub, as I recall, is across from the Moscone............

(www.thirstybear.com)
- -- 
Scott in Auburn, California 



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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:04:38 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: re:Outdoor cookers

Hoo boy!!

Coudn't help but chime in on this one...Once I had a wooden windscreen. I
fired up my cooker on our windy second floor porch.  Whilst showing off some
new gadget in the brewroom, it occured to me I may have a boil over.  I went
out to check, only to find flames licking up from my windscreen, a scorched
deck and a flaming propane tube!!

NEVER IGNORE YOUR BURNER.
NEVER PUT A BURNER ON BARE WOOD.
NEVER MAKE A WOODEN WINDSCREEN.

Seems obvious, but sometimes we get a little too cocky.

PS. when all was said and done Black Triangle Lager (my wind screen was
triangular) cost a little over $90.00!! owch!!


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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:20:25 -0400
From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net>
Subject: Windscreen clearup

Just to clarify, my wooden "windscreen" was a triangular structure about 1ft
high with 5 ft long sections. It sat about 1.5-2.0ft away from the flame It
was nt a small wooden device attached to my burner! I know some one was
thinking I was completely tapped.  Just partially:-)

Hope these posts keep others from making the same dumb move!!

Aaron Perry
vspbcb at earthlink.net


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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:18:36 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Party Poopers

I will admit that my posts of late on immersion coolers and the like have
aired on the side of being risque. But when one gets private emails such as:

>Phil or Felippe
>Which ever you prefer.
>We all have a right to enjoy ourselves, but clearly you are abusing the
>privilege.

And yet another:

>It is obvious that down there, where ever you are, you are enjoying the
>party all by yourself!
>Sexist pig!

I have to retort:
What about the six scantily dressed women?
Do they not even get a mention?
Now these are attitudes I would call "sexist".

Of course I am not about to divulge from whom these comments came as I am
sure Fred Johnson would take me to task for doing so (and I certainly am
not associating Fred's good name with the perpetrators of this vicious
outrageous attack).

But if I have genuinely offended anyone
If my comments are found unpalatable
If my lifestyle is deemed indefensible

Then I say
>From the bottom of my heart


I am deeply sorry you are missing out on all the fun. Guess I will have to
just battle on enjoying it myself, though Jeff Renner has kindly offered to
come and lend a hand. And Doc Pivo is mostly here, if not in being then
certainly in spirit, he is in charge of our favourite game "Pin The Tale On
Marilyn", when he can catch her. Eric Fouch will likely be found dancing on
the table in nothing but his tutu. Steve Alexander promises to come and
read us chapters of MB&S. Oh yes and Ray Kruse is working on yet another
scent to beat the bottle of "Aboriginal Armpit Odour" which I counter sent
him. Now I just know for this light hearted comment you are going to call me
a racist.

If we feel a need for your presence, don't worry we will be sure to call
you. But I wouldn't hold your breath!



Cheers
Phil
Or Felippe
Which Ever You Prefer.
















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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:31:48 +0100
From: Stefan.Markl at notes.kwu.siemens.de
Subject: Brew Pubs in Orlando


Subject:  Brew Pubs in Orlando


I'm traveling to Orlando next Month and would like to
know if there are any good brew-pubs in the area.

Thanks




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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:57:46 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: outdoor cookers

Brewers,

Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> sez:
"This may seem intuitive, but be careful with a cooker on your deck.  These
baby's can get hot.  Hot cookers can scorch your deck.  Think twice, brew
once."

I brew on my (custom designed, personally built, beautiful 1100 sq. ft.)
deck. To prevent scorching the decking, I just put a piece of scrap plywood
under the cooker. If it gets excessively hot, I guess you could keep it
damp, so the heat energy converts the water to steam instead of igniting the
plywood.

Nothing is quite as satisfying as brewing outside, unless of course it
suddenly turns cold, windy & rainy.


Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'" ~ Dave
Barry


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com



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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:18:58 +0200
From: "Pitchford, Andrew" <Andrew.Pitchford at hulamin.co.za>
Subject: Weizen

Mark Bayer submitted an interesting post regarding kraeusening a weizen
beer.
I have recently become involved in the setting up of a small commercial
brewing operation with a German non-brewing friend. He bought a 200 litre
brewery in Germany and does exactly what the supplier tells him to do. Last
Saturday we brewed a Weizen and pitched Wyeast Weihenstaphan Weizen yeast.
According to our instructions we have stored the 3 open fermenters in a
fridge at 18deg C and after 3 days have a good head of yeast. The next
instruction is to skim off this yeast, save it for the next brew, and then
to pitch a further amount of the same yeast in fresh wort saved from brew
day. The fermenters must then be kept at 18 deg C for a further 2 days with
lids in place and then lagered at 8 deg C for 2 weeks.
Can anyone tell me the purpose of this exercise?
Thanks in advance,
Andrew Pitchford


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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:28:47 -0600
From: "Chris Schmidt" <Chris.Schmidt at bannerhealth.com>
Subject: Chill haze

Any suggestions on how to clear up a chill haze?  
I have a barley wine that is crystal clear but when chilled develops
quite a haze.  Me, I don't drink in chilled but my wife likes it chilled.  This
brew is still in the tertiary fermenter clearing.

Thanks

Alas, if I were of the genus Saccharomyces I could say, 
"Go yeast young man"



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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:40:10 -0000
From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: re: hard cider won't clarify

I wouldn't worry too much about the cloudy cider. For those of you 
who have had the pleasure of drinking proper English West Country 
cider, you will have found it to be totally flat (ie no carbonation at all), 
exceptionally dry and so murky that you cannot see your fingers 
through the glass.

Despite these unappealing sounding descriptions, it really is good stuff.

Also to buy it, you can normally go to a farm with a container of your 
own, and the farmer will go and pull some out of a dubious looking 
container in the back of a dirty old barn.

Nigel
Guildford, UK


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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:42:38 EST
From: Lostboy676 at aol.com
Subject: Heating Sorces for Winter Brewing

>From Todd:
>I would like to find a way to ferment during the mild winters
here in
>Seattle in my garage.  I need a way to warm things up a little
(maybe from
>40 to 65 or so).  Any thoughts?

<From Jonathan Peakall:
I use a high quality aquarium heater. I know some regard it as a
sanitation issue, but I bleach soak overnight between uses, rinse, and
then idophor. It does a terrific job of maintaining 60 degrees fer me.
And I live in a '70's hippie shack out in the woods, where insulation is
considered a cuss word, so my house has dramatic temp changes.>


 Why not put your carboy in a tub of water, and use the aquarium heater to 
heat the water in the tub?
 Then sanitation wouldnt be an issue.
                    Dave


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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:34:59 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:puffy yeast, tannins

Dave asked, >>I would think,
since you are going to pitch this to an oxygenated starter, the more viable
yeast bodies the better and the puffier the packet, the more CO2 ergo the
more yeast growth one would have. Is this not correct?<<
   Yeah you want yeast growth, that the whole point of the exercise, but
yeast health
counts also. Doesn't the glycogen sustain the yeast during the aerobic
phase of its'
developement? I have read a number of references that state the best time
to pitch yeast
is slightly past high kraeusen, when glycogen is at its' highest levels. I
would bet that
this time also would be at a highest population. You have pointed out that
the production
of CO2 only indicates what has come out of solution, not the onset of 
fermentation.
Working with a small Wyeast package that  1 inch is about half of maximum,(
though I've seen
a few go 2 1/2 inches if left a few extra days.) Using CO2 production as an
indicator, after the
portion of CO2 is dissolved to saturate the starter wort, if then you wait
for 1inch more, that
would put the wort density a bit less than half the original density,
approximately at 1/3 OG or
a little past high K.

 >>I see no rationale for Del's contention that heating to a higher
temperature in the mashout somehow saves on heating expense.  <<
 If you've heated the mash to 158 then let it cool down during lauter now
don't
you need to reheat it? Getting a mash of 8 lbs + 3 gallons water up 10
degrees
would take about 330 BTU (ideally). Getting the collected 5.5 gallons of
wort up that additional
10 degrees would take 550 BTU. Granted the total energy used from grinding
the grain to
pitching the yeast _must_remain the same. I use water from the hot water
heater to start
my mash water and sparge water, so the savings in propane is significant.
The specific thing I mentioned was getting the wort to boil
rapidly. Something I like, just cuz it signals the final stage of a 6 hour
brew day and
the sooner I smell hops hit the boil the closer I know I am to having beer.

>>Not exceeding 170F in the mashout to avoid tannin extraction, as Del
contends,  is a new one to me,...Del, do you have a
reference to this?...I know of no data which suggests that the
temperature difference of 169 to 171F... <<

   Guess you haven't read the Fix's books. 170 degrees has been mentioned
in so much literature
as the maximum lauter temperature I can't begin to count them. The
temperature is mentioned as 172
but it's easier to remember round numbers and 170 gives a bit of room for
overshoot.

>>it is pretty much denatured ( permanently
inactivated)  in about  15 - 30 minutes at 158F even under the best of
circumstances. <<
    Quoting BT Vol.5 #3 page 24, written by Jim Busch,
"Table 1:ranges of enzymatic activity"
 ...Beta amylase....temperature tolerance, survives to 167* F (75* C). 

>>What is important , is that during the sparging that the pH of the
sparging
liquor be kept about 5.8 or lower to minimize tannin extraction.<<
  This has become a "shotgun fix", the real concept is to not let the
_run-off wort_
rise above 5.8 or 6. Sparge water can be pH 7, as long as the run-off
remains
in the proper range then there is no excessive tannin extraction. I think
the attitude has been,
"If I acidify the sparge water to 5.8 then I don't need to worry about it."
My answer to this is, "When then do you cut off the sparge? you can no
longer monitor
pH because it will always remains in the range, so you could run off as
long as you want?"
But we both know that would be no good, you will draw tannins at a pH of
5.8 and SG of 1.000. 
So many references here have been made that terminating sparge in relation
to
specific gravity is not proper, because it's the pH that matters. Now that
you've nullified
the pH change by acidifying the sparge water, how are you going to know
when to stop the
sparge? by specific gravity that's how. Now you're back to using the
hydrometer to decide
the end of lauter. Somewhere along the line a lot of people are missing the
whole dynamics 
of the system. The pH rise is the "indicator", acidifying the water voids
your indicator.

Thinkin' it'd be Steve to jump me on this one...
              Del




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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:26:51 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: mashout?

"FLEMING, JOE" <JOE.FLEMING at spcorp.com> wrote:

>     >Secondly: mash out, for some as yet undefined reason,
>     >enhances head retention. Possibilities are suggested of the
>     >formation of glyco-protein complexes that are foam positive.
>
>     I've not heard this before.  Can anyone else speak to this
>     argument?  I'm not doubting it -- skipping mashout may be the
>     reason why, by rote, I dump an extra 1/4 # of wheat in each of my
>     brews for head retention!

I have a hard copy I've saved of a note on this from George Fix, which I
assumed was from an HBD post, but it doesn't show up in a search of HBD and
JND archives.  Maybe it was something he sent directly to me?  I'll have to
retype it. :-(  In the interest of accuracy I'll include his two typos,
others that may creep in are mine.

 -=-=-
Date:  Wed, 23 Sep 98 12:40:35 -5:00
From:  gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject:  gelatinization

<snip>
On another related subject it is well know that glyco-proteins (dextrin-mmw
protein polymers) are the primary constituents supporting a beer's form
(sic) stand, while CO2 and larger proteins are responsible for the
formation of foam.  In a recent study by Scott, et al (ASBC Journal, 55-
1997) it was shown that a rest at 70-72C strongly encourages the formation
of glyco-proteins.  A corollary, and something I have always believed
without proof, is that a rest at 70-722C (sic) will improve a beer's foam
stand!  Moreover, I have found that the effect is not trivial.

Cheers.

George Fix

 -=-=-

Jeff


 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:36:52 -0800
From: "John Todd Larson" <larson at amazon.com>
Subject: Yeast dump from a conical

So, I just received a beautiful conical fermentor from Beer, Beer & More
Beer (just a satisfied customer, no affiliation) and want to begin
harvesting some yeast on my next batch.  Three questions:

When is the right time for ale yeasts to harvest (out of a butterfly valve
on the bottom)?

I assume I can just dump it into a clean mason jar and store in the fridge
for short periods of time.  For longer periods, I assume I would put some
fresh wort on it.  I know some people "wash" the yeast.  If possible, I
would love to keep it very simple and ignore this step.  Any thoguhts?

How do I keep the dump area clean?  I assume I dump some trub and junk out
after a few days and then harvest a few days later.  Should I try to clean
the outside part of the valve and try to sanitize in place -or- after
dumping trub maybe quickly cover with aluminum foil and leave dirty until
harvest?

TIA for any thoughts.

Todd

J. Todd Larson
Treasury Manager
Amazon.com
larson at amazon.com
(206) 266-4367



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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:18:46 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <WCTobler at brazoria.net>
Subject: Competition Brews

Hi all,
   I've been sitting in the shadows for 6 or 7 months, and it's been fun.
This is a great learning tool.  But now I have a question on etiquette.  I
pull allot of recipes off the web, some are good, some are ok.  Every once
in a while, one is very good.  If you make a beer from someone's recipe,
would it be alright to submit it in competition?  Are competitions a judge
on how well you make a beer, or how well you formulate a beer?  My feelings
are that you should only submit a beer that is original, but I may be in
left field. How about if you tweak a recipe?  I am not to the point yet to
formulating recipes, but not too far away. But I have made some very good
brews from others recipes.   I would like the collective's thoughts on this.

To Better Brewing
William Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
ICQ# 41840393 



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Date: 22 Mar 2000 09:40:35 -0800
From: "Matt Hollingsworth" <colorart at spiritone.com>
Subject: Salt Lake City beer

Russ Hobaugh asks about brewpubs in Salt Lake City.

While I haven't been there myself, I've tasted a few beers from there at the
Oregon Brewers Festival.  I still have my programs, so here's some
information:

Desert Edge Brewing
273 Trolley Square
Salt Lake City
801-521-8917/801-521-8839 FAX

Uinta Brewing Company
Salt Lake City
801-467-0909

In the program it says:

"Utah brewers are constrained by law to brew low alcohol beer.  This puts
them in a position similar to English brewers who are taxed on the strength
of their beers.  Both wrest the most from a light grain bill..."

I had Desert Edges beer at both the 98 and 99 festival and they were tasty.
Uinta was only at the 98 show and theirs was tasty as well.

Because of the nature of the business with frequent openings and closings of
pubs, you should give 'em a call before showing up to make sure they're
still there.  Ya never know.

Hope you have some good beer on your trip.

Cheers!

 -Matt


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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:00:49 -0600
From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com
Subject: Diffusion during lauter?

     Dave Burley writes:

     The lower viscosity of the higher temperature mashout does speed up
     the
     lauter, especially in difficult glucanaceous mashes like rye and wheat
     beer. Remember also about a third to a half of  the wort has to
     diffuse out
     of the capillaries of the grain and extraction efficiency is therefore
     sensitive to viscosity and therefore temperature.  Under normal
     circumstances the mashout is also a guarantee of starch haze free
     beer.

     I used to assume that pore diffusion or capillary action would be a
     rate limiting factor on extraction.  But some time back (maybe a few
     years) I think it was Rob Moline who indicated that microscopic photos
     of the sachharification of starch in crushed malt showed that to be a
     poor model.  In fact the starch bits looked more like a dimpled golf
     ball with smaller bits being dissolved or broken away from the
     outside.  No mention of pores or capillaries.  In any case, if you are
     getting the extraction efficiency you want, all is fine.  If not, you
     need to slow down the lauter and possibly extend the rest periods.  I
     routinely do a mashout and sparge with 170 DegF water, but I suspect
     **** QDA **** crush and flowrate have much more impact on extraction.

     Cheers!

     Lou Heavner - Austin, TX


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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:40:00 -0500
From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: The Great Pilsener Pub Crawl

Starting on 1 April, several HBD'ers and I will be touring the following cities
in the never ending thirst for more and better beer, beer knowledge, and beer
palate education. I am specifically asking for help in finding Guasthaus's to
stay in. Particularly in Cologne where we need to meet up with some other
people.

Eckard Witte are you out there somewhere??? Please email me if you are!! Anybody
know what happened to Eckard?????

Tour: Frankfurt, Cologne, Dusseldorf, Bamberg, Pilzen, Prague, Budvar, Munich,
Stuttgart, Frankfort.
        (BTW, the wives club is doing Frankfurt, Hamburg, Odense (Denmark),
Copenhagen, Vienna, Melk, Stuttgart, Frankfurt)

Also, anyone who can tell me how to say "Can I speak with the Brewmeister" in
Czech, I would love to learn how.

Lynn O'Conner--What other phrases did you find helpfull? If I were to take a 6
pack of American made Bo Pils made with Czech Saaz hops, and Budvar malt, Whom
would be most interested in sampling it, and How would I get ahold of them? We
will be in Czech April 4&5.

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewer

Ill be at the MCAB! Will you??????????????????????????


Also, on a completely different topic...My garage is 20ft long, How long an
extension should I build onto it to accomodate my 2-tier, 2 fridge and a freezer
Brewery???




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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:48:53 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: water chemistry

Hi all:

I'm posting this water analysis courtesy of another brewing
site on the web.  It's quite strange.  Seems like it has
almost nothing other than sodium bicarbonate in it.  AJ,
could you make any comments (public or private) on what you
think about this?

   Calcium 1.6
   Magnesium 0.08
   Iron 0.12
   Manganese 0.0
   Sodium 216.1
   Carbonate 28.8
   Bicarbonate 478.2
   Sulfate 19.4
   Chloride 9.6
   Flouride 0.6
   Nitrate 0.0
   Phenolphtalein Alkalinity as CaCO3 24.0
   Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 440.0
   Total Hardness as CaCO3 4.3
   Dissolved Residue (TS) Calculated 754.5
   Specific Conductance Micromhos/cm 880
   pH 8.8
   Total Iron 0.20


Cheers!
Marc



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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:25:44 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at realtime.net>
Subject: Real Ale this weekend

I'm kind of fired up about real ale now and this weekend has 3 events no
less which really feature real ale.

1.  Real Ale Festival in Chicago
2.  MCAB in St. Louis.  Real ale presentation(s) and real ale servings.
http://www.hbd.org/mcab/
3.  Bluebonnet in Dallas. Roger Protz who knows a little about real ale is
the featured speaker.  I'm going on Friday evening to his talk.
http://www.hbd.org/bluebonnet/bluebonnet/bluebonnet.htm

Lynne O'Connor


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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:24:45 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at realtime.net>
Subject: More Fullers Info

Couple of more details about Fullers brewing.  They 'party gyle' which I
think basically means  Chiswick, London Pride, and ESB are all made from the
same mash or kettle.  Perhaps someone could explain party gyle.

Here's a little quiz.  Anyone know what "screech" means in a brewery?

Chiswick and ESB are dryhopped at rate of 3 plugs (1/2 oz each) of Kent
Goldings for 9 gallon cask. No whole hops other than plugs for
dryhopping.  Only Type 90 pellets.

Demarrara sugar is added to Chiswick in cask to give some residual
sweetness.

Fullers ferments (primary) under very high pressure (up to 20 psi)!  This is
unusual. They want to retain volatiles that others want to get rid of.

They use Optic and Chariot barley malts from a maltster that won't ship
to America.  I know because I tried to order this malt 3-4 years ago.  To
be frank, this maltster did not want to pestered by little people.

Fermentation schedule is pitch at 17C, ferment until 2/3 drop in OG
(temp rises to 20C during this), drop to 16-17C for diacetyl rest which is
usually about 1 day. Crash yeast at 4-10C when desired FG is reached.

Then transfer to maturation tanks (again unusual) for aging at 4 C.
They filter all yeast out then repitch for cask beer (1.5-2 million/mL, max 3
million/mL).  They use 1 strain for all beers.

Forgot to mention water is brought up to 520 ppm hardness.  CaCl2 added
for dark beers as well.

By the way, there is a new book (1999) called Brewing by Ian Hornsey
published in England.  The author used to be a lecturer (English
equivalent of assistant professor I think) in microbiology and is
part-owner of a Nethergate brewery in England.  I don't know how much it is
(paperback), I
got it at library, and photos are not very good but it does cover English
brewing
very well. It has a lengthy section on real ale.

Lynne O'Connor


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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:23:24 -0500
From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at realtime.net>
Subject: Czech Double Decoction

I spent 3 days with a Czech brewmaster about 3 weeks ago including 12
hours at a brewery.  The brewmaster at the brewery where we made beer didn't
speak English so my escort acted as interpreter.

I just want to give a brief overview and have broken it up over two
posts over two days.  I have more complete details in newsletter that can be
found on our webpage.

2-vessel double decoction.
For pilsner, all rests are 10-15 minutes except last which is 25-30.
For dark lager (which is what we brewed that day) add 5-10 minutes to each
rest (except last).

Mash is very thin relative to single-infusion brewing.
4-5 L/kg malt (4.2 this particular day for dark lager)
This is 2 quarts/lb.  compared to ~1.3 qt/lb for single infusion.
For a 12P pilsner, first wort will be only 15 Plato.

Dough-in at 37 C.  rest and raise to 50-53.  Rest then pull first
decoction.  Because of thinness of mash, mash doesn't float as in ale
brewing so thick portion is at bottom.

Decoction then goes through rests at 63-65, 73-75, and then boiled for
20 minutes.  Add this back to bring entire mash to 63-65, rest, then pull
second decoction.  Second decoction then goes to 73-75 for rest then is
boiled for 20 minutes.  Then added back to bring entire mash to 77-78 C
which rests for 25-30 minutes.

I gave range of temperatures (37-38, 50-53, 63-65, 73-75, 77-78) because
I heard different temperatures at the 9 breweries I have now had detailed
tours of.  At the brewery that day, rests were 37,53,63,73,77.

After this, the top portion of the mash is brilliantly clear--so clear
that the first wort actually was pulled off the top (homebrewers could do
this with a siphon hose).

This was about 1/4 of the kettle volume. then lauter was started.
Recirculated for maybe 1 minute on that particular day.  about another
1/4 was taken without any problem and without any sparge water being added.
then lauter slowed so sparge water (80C) was added, stirred slowly, then
lauter again. This had to be done again later on.

The beer we made was a 14 Plato dark lager.  44% undermodified pils, 44%
light munich, 10% crystal 55, and 2% black patent.

Lynne O'Connor
St. Patrick's of Texas
Brewers Supply
1828 Fleischer Drive
Austin, Texas 78728 USA
512-989-9727
www.stpats.com







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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:28:57 EST
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: porch burners & wet milling

Porch Burners - 
Nathan warns about propane burners on wooden decks.  My RIMS rack is made of 
wood so I ran into this problem with my low pressure (35k) burners scorching 
the wood.  The fix was to place a couple of old cookie sheets under the 
burners.  

Wet Milling -
That was interesting what Jim Booth wrote about wet milling.  I tried it once 
in an effort to keep the flour down while milling 20 pounds of 2-row.  I 
think I added about 1 cup of water to the grain, but I didn't let it sit for 
any amount of time.  When I tried to run it thru my Maltmill, the dampness 
caused the flour to stick to the rollers and gum them up to the point of 
closing the gap.  I had to get a stiff brush out and scrub the rollers off a 
couple of times.  It was a big pain in the (*).  I might try it again 
sometime with 2 T. per pound and let it sit for 30 minutes.  Maybe.

Bill Wright
Juneau, Alaska



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Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:56:32 -0500
From: Rob Hanson and Kate Keplinger <katerob at erols.com>
Subject: clear plastic carboys/fermenters

Does anyone know a good (read easy and inexpensive) source of clear
plastic carboys (I imagine they look like and may be water cooler
bottles)?

Private e-mail is fine with me.

- --Rob Hanson
Washington, DC
katerob at erols.com


Man's way to God is with beer in hand.

  --Saying of the Koffyar tribe of Nigeria




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Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:49:08 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Mashed Rice For Dinner?

Jeff Renner writes:
> > If you were to add some malt (1/3 as much as rice) to this and mash for
20
> minutes before cooking it, I think you'd have a very easily handled cereal
> mash that wouldn't congeal.  You might even have 1900 Budweiser.

Jeff
As I mentioned, I wasn't planning to cook any more rice. But I am curious
about "mashed rice". How will it mash if it hasn't been cooked first? I
thought it needed to be gelatinised before mashing.

I should mention that previously I was mashing in a Listermann system so
pretty much stayed with infusion. Now I want to mention right here that I
have been extremely happy with Dan's equipment - sparge arm and false bottom
(come on Dan, after this you must up my royalties!) but nowadays mash in a
50 litre stainless pot on top of gas. This I transfer at end of mash to
Dan's big 10 gallon baby for lautering and sparge.

I mention this because it means I could now, if I want, cook the rice first
in the masher then add the Barley, even throw in a protein rest and go from
there. I'm sure this way the rice would cause me no trouble. But I can't
imagine how one would mash uncooked rice.

You've got me in now, as you always do. Okay it's back to cooking my rice.
And I had better get another corn job going so I can send that promised
Mudgee Mud. Oh and by the way, not only do the ladies like the rice beer, I
do too.

But Mashed Rice For Dinner?
No thanks, I'll stick to potatoe.

Cheers
Phil



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