---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  honey sources in aust (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
  Re: HSA (Gil Drury)
  Parties, Kiwis And Dave Burley, What Are You Smoking? ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  bouncing carboys ("FLEMING, JOE")
  Maple wine ("Russ Hobaugh")
  FWH demystification (Jeff Renner)
  Cardamom source ("Dave Hinrichs")
  Re: Kegging 15.5 gallons (Jeff Renner)
  re: bouncing carboys/Fermenting in cornys ("Brian Dixon.")
  Kegging (Richard Foote)
  low dough-in rate (Chad Bohl)
  Sanitizing on the cheap (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com>
  RE; Electrical Question (Jonathan Peakall)
  Barley wine carbonation (Dalefogg503)
  Hops and cornie ferments ("Whyman Dental Lab, Inc")
  Sierra Nevada Porter Clone ("John Palmer")
  Re: Belgian Wit ("Chris Schiffer")
  re: HSA ( aka hot wort oxidation) ("Dr. Pivo")
  RE: FWH, an observation. (Graham Sanders)
  Re: Electrical Question (Jeff Lutes)
  English/Scotish ales ("Alex MacGillivray")
  Water analysis help please ("scott")
  Brassed Off... (Wes Smith)
  Forced Carbonation (FredScheer)
  Secondary under pressure (FredScheer)
  Hoarhound and hop extract ("Kevin Mc Lean")
  Takeing Pilzn and Praha by Storm (Thepfhb)
  Competition Reminder - PEACH STATE Brew-Off 2000 ("John Stegenga")


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* Entries for the 18th Annual HOPS competition are due 3/24-4/2/00 
* See http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/ for more information

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 14:47:12 +1000 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan at Aus.Sun.COM>
Subject: honey sources in aust

Sorry for everyone else, this is for the Austalians only. (Phil Yates is 
included)

Anyone in Aust. know of a good source of bulk Honey other than Coles and Big W??

Kind regards

Scotty



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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 18:44:14 +1000
From: Gil Drury <drury at zip.com.au>
Subject: Re: HSA

An observation on Hot-side Aeration.

Last year I did an APA. On transferring hot wort from the whirlpool
the tap came out. This resulted in about 20l of wort dropping up to
18 inches into the transfer bucket with immense foam formation. My 
brew length is 55l so a third was possibly affected by HSA.
This beer was fine (tasted at the local beer shop - at about 2 weeks
in the keg) BUT, the last part of the third and last keg was tasting
noticeably "tired" - this was maybe 4 to 6 weeks after kegging.

Do I believe in HSA?  Yes, but only under circumstances like the 
preceeding ie. rough handling. I don't think things like transferring
mash via 2l jug or open boiling (both of which I do) cause problems 
for amateur brewers. Like many of you I've found a few bottles of what
once was a good beer, buried in the garage for a year (here the summers
can get to 40C), opened it expecting massive staling/oxidisation, and..
it's fine.

Cheers,

Gil Drury
Sydney, Australia


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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:45:06 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Parties, Kiwis And Dave Burley, What Are You Smoking?

Dave Lamotte asks for advice on warming up his parties.
>There have been reports emanating from the
>Southern Highlands of Rice Lager parties featuring a billiard >table as
>the prime source of visual entertainment.

Dave, here is the first point needing correction. The billiard table is not
the prime source of visual entertainment. It is the scantily dressed ladies
leaning precariously over the table as they take their shot which gives rise
(do not read too much into this) to the, to the, I've lost my train of
thought. To the visual source of entertainment, that's what I meant to say.
That and Eric Fouch dancing on top of it in a tutu, you can't have a party
without Eric.
So now you have the billiard table, the rest is easy. Ring Eric, he'll be
over in a flash, and I'll send Jill and the girls up to see you in the ute.
Maybe then I can get some serious brewing under way.

Jeff Renner is concerned that the Kiwis are having a detrimental effect on
my brewing. In short Jeff, the new brew house is a bonza and I can't really
blame the Kiwis for my recent heavy work load. But yes, Air New Zealand are
in the process of buying Ansett Australia 100%. Hence the reason I am
shaking like a sheep! I mean to say, I think highly of Wes Smith but I hate
to think what he might be like let loose with a cat of nine tales, or for
that matter, any of his relatives in NZ!!

But my final point for tonight is about Dave Burley's contribution to the
HSA ongoing paranoia.
Dave says:
>For example, boiling in a small open kettle will also
>produce hot wort oxidation. Don't believe it?

No, I certainly don't believe it. Well scientifically I expect you are going
to try and prove it. When I first started brewing I worried about so many
things that I should and shouldn't do and it all came from reading books and
listening to people who I thought sounded like they knew it all. It was only
from experience that I gained confidence and somewhere down the track it
occurred to me that so much of what I had previously taken as gospel was
complete and utter bullshit. At about this time I picked up on some of Doc
Pivo's posts and realised that here was a brewer who had drawn the same
conclusion. Though in the Doc's case he had done an awful lot of brewing off
his own bat before he ever read all the bullshit.

Now we are to worry about boiling in the kettle without the lid partially
on?
Bullshit.

Sorry to sound a little strong but for all the lurkers (and I'm told there
are thousands), I hope you are not intimidated by some of the advice you
read in here. Brewing good beer just isn't this complicated. Unless you want
to make it so. And for half these lunatics, that would appear to be their
sole pleasure.

Personally I would prefer a wild party in the billiard room.

Cheers
Phil
Chief Organiser For Wild Parties In Newcastle





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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:36:00 -0400 
From: "FLEMING, JOE" <JOE.FLEMING at spcorp.com>
Subject: bouncing carboys

        Another tried 'n true carboy tip: milk crates!  Yes, not only 
     are they essential for decorating your habitat in Early American 
     College Student (esp. the milk crate & cinder block period) and 
     storing your now defunct albums, but they serve as ideal carboy 
     caddies.  The crates fit 5G & 6.5G carboys, include handles for 
     easy transport (at no extra cost!) and the built in trivet prevents 
     contact with concrete.  Flip it over and its a bottling stool!
     
        Act now, but please let this not be the rebirth of the keg/milk 
     crate crimes thread!
     
     Joe


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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:29:30 -0400
From: "Russ Hobaugh" <Russ_Hobaugh at erm.com>
Subject: Maple wine



This might be stretching the topic, but I need some help with a Maple
wine I have in the secondary.  I started this on 2/19/00 and it had an SG of
1.154.
It had a nice active fermentation for 6 weeks.  No activity out of the airlock
for the last week, so I racked it but it is still at 1.080 and no signs of
further
activity.  I think this puppy is stuck, so how do I get it unstuck? It tastes
good,
but is way to sweet to let it go as is.

I am thinking about starting another champagne yeast starter with extra
yeast nutrient, and dumping that into the carboy.  Will this work, or is there
something else I should try?

TIA

Russ Hobaugh
Goob' dog brewery
Birdsboro PA




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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:31:15 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: FWH demystification

Old HBDer Hubert Hanghofer from Austria answered this question privately
and cc'd me, and has given permission to post it here:

> From: Bob McDonald <rcmcdonald at yahoo.com>
> Subject: FWH/hot break
>
> [snip]
> Also a question about first wort hopping -- My
> (perhaps flawed) understanding is that the point of
> FWH is to impart flavor and aroma by adding hops to
> the kettle prior to the boil.  Everything I've read
> about hops says that the delicate aromatic compounds
> that provide hop aroma and flavor are driven off in
> the boil.  If this is so, how can hops added before
> the boil add flavor and aroma?  Help me out here.

First let me emphasize that there is absolutely nothing mysterious about
FWH from the chemotechnical or physical point of view!

Hop aroma oils are driven off in the boil, mainly because they get easily
stripped by escaping vapour. Furthermore hop oils are insoluble /
lipophilic and thus tend to get absorbed (=further reduced) by yeast in
fermentation.

If you add hops "pre-boil" however, those essential oils are oxidized to a
high degree (consider there is no guarding vapour blanket) and thus turned
into *soluble* components ("epoxides and alcohols") that are not as easily
stripped and are not adsorbed by yeast to such a high degree as the
"native essential hop oils" (sorry for my word constructs, but as you
probably have discovered already, English is not my native language). Thus
you get definitely more flavour and maybe some aroma out of the hops.

This principles were discussed by German brewing scientist Ludwig Narziss
in his German books (my bibles) some time before the often cited Brauwelt
article appeared.

 ...and let me add this: If Ludwig sez so, IT IS SO!

I've posted this to the HBD a few years ago but don't have the HBD number
handy.

Hope this helps

Hubert,
brewing in Salzburg, Austria
(and right now on the way to a Munich-business trip, ...guess what I do
there...)
- --


"Bier brauen nach eigenem Geschmack"
Infos unter:
http://www.netbeer.co.at

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 08:48:36 -0500
From: "Dave Hinrichs" <dhinrichs at quannon.com>
Subject: Cardamom source

As a satisfied customer, a good source of many fresh high quality spices,
www.penzeys.com.  I now buy all of my spices from them, outside of those I
grow myself.

The direct link to cardoon is

http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/scstore/p-penzeyscardamom.htm?
L+scstore+pvtj6915+954942722


Dave



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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:17:56 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Kegging 15.5 gallons

"Bruce M. Mills" <millsbruce at earthlink.net> wrote:
>If I were able to purchase a
>couple of kegs, a tap, and the tool to access the interior, would I be able
>to fill, clean,  and sanitize adequately without a commercial cleaning
>system ?

I keg in 7.75 (1/4 bbl) Sankeys and remove the valve to clean.  I
understand there is a jig for this now available (search the archives for
"Sankey"), but here are the instructions I post occasionally:

I've been kegging in these (Sankey kegs) since about 1982.  First, *release
all pressure* by pressing down on the ball valve or you'll get your teeth
full of a heavy valve and draw tube assembly when you release it.  Hold a
rag over it or you will get a face full of stale beer.  Then, using a small
screwdriver, pry out the flat retaining ring.  Next, using the jaws of a
pair of pliers as a tool, turn the valve to the left maybe 30 degrees, and
lift it out.  It takes less time to do it than to describe it.  Soak the
inside with bleach water for a few hours and boil the valve/drawtube to
sanitize it.  Rinse, fill with beer, reverse the above steps,  The hard
part is re-installing the flat retaining ring.  You have to press down to
compress th O-ring (which is under the valve).  To do this, I put a
plumbing part called a reducing coupler (I think 3/4" to 1/2")) on top of
the valve, hook a board under the lip of the keg top, across the coupler as
a fulcrum, and sit on the other end.  Then I force the ring into its slot
by twisting a wide screwdriver blade in the gap against the coupler until
it's home.  It takes me about 30 seconds.  You'll need to get a tap, of
course.  I keg about half of my beers in these, the rest in 5 gallon
Cornelius (soda) canisters, which have the advantage of being easier to
fill and seal, using cheaper taps, and taking up less room in the fridge.
Of course, they hold less.

Good luck.  -Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 07:56:30 -0700
From: "Brian Dixon." <briandixon at home.com>
Subject: re: bouncing carboys/Fermenting in cornys

>Aaron Perry wrote about "the one that got away" (a carboy) in spite of care
>to have it and his hand dry to pick it up.  We could pick at why it might

[rules of safe carboy handling snipped]
>I've used carboy "handles"--the neck-gripping type--ever since they became
>available in the homebrew market.  Never had a problem, never saw any like-
>lihood of a problem, and they've certainly helped where I've had to carry
>carboys up and down stairs (most of my brewing years).
[snip]

I _used to_ use the carboy handles also, but don't anymore.  I once carried
a partially full carboy to the brewfridge, one hand safely underneath the
carboy and one hand holding on the carboy handle (orange, plastic-coated
metal type) when the d*&#! handle slipped off the top of the carboy.  The
carboy went crashing into the fridge, luckily not breaking it or the fridge.
Since the handle was NOT responsible for the full weight of the carboy, I
came away from that experience believing that the handles are too
unreliable.  Yes, the handle was tightened to the maximum around the neck of
the carboy.  Personally, I believe that it is not possible to really design
anything that is fool proof for carrying carboys.  An empty, but wet-necked
carboy would also be at risk since the plastic on the handle is slippery
when wet.  I've gone back to the usual "one hand below and one hand around
the neck" method of carrying all carboys, full or empty.  Hold them close to
your body, lift with your legs, keep your back straight ... you want your
back to last for years and years and years of brewing!

Also, a good word for the Food Saver: I've also had one for a couple of
years and use it for storing hops and many other things.  The first one I
got had problems ... apparently it had been dropped in shipment to the store
or something.  The company asked me "What do YOU want to do?" and offered to
take care of it in any manner that I wanted.  I suggested that I try
exchanging it at the store and if that didn't work, then they could ship me
a new one and pay for the shipment of the old one back to them.  They agreed
to all the above.  The store did the exchange with no problem and tossed in
a couple of rolls of bags on top of that!  To both the store (Bi-Mart,
Corvallis, Oregon) and the maker of Food Saver ... kudos!  Great way of
demonstrating good ol' American customer service!

Brian





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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:11:10 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Kegging

Bruce Mills writes:


>I would like to use the 15.5 gallon kegs, on occasion,  to keg my beer. Does
>anyone have any experiences or comments they would like to share ? If I
were able >to purchase a couple of kegs, a tap, and the tool to access the
interior, would I >be able to fill, clean,  and sanitize adequately without
a commercial cleaning
>system ? Any recommendations of a manufacturer that would sell just two new
>kegs , tap, and the tool ? Not considering cost, are there other issues I
>should know about ?


I have kegged (in the past) in 1/2 barrel Sankey's.  To remove the spear
all you need is a small regular screwdriver to pry out the flat, spring
steel retaining ring.  Place your srewdriver blade down into the cut out
(there are two as I recall) and pry the retaining ring toward the center,
up and out.  Copious cursing and grunting are known to make the task easier
and faster.  There are spear removal tools you can buy at places like
Rapids or Superior Products, but why waste the money and deny yourself the
pleasure of using the wrong tool for the right job?  Seriously, it does
work.  A micro in Vermont I used to frequent did it using the very
screwdriver method I describe.  Be prepared to go through several
screwdrivers though if you do much of it.  

Once you get the spear removed, you'll want to do the standard cut off the
unless you filter, which would make cleanup between fillings much easier.
A tubing cutter works great for this.

Once you get everything clean, sterilized, and reassembled, you're ready to
fill.  I prefer to reassemble before filling, although you could fill
first.    Become familiar with your Sankey tap.  Take it apart and
reassemble it until you can do it blindfolded.  Okay, maybe that's
excessive.  You'll find that it has a ball that rattles around in there.
That's the liquid side.  You'll also find that it has a gas check valve in
the gas side of things.  If you decide on the assemble then fill method,
here's what you do.  Remove the gas check valve and screw the hose barb
back on.  This will allow the replacement of the confined "air" space with
your chosen liquid.  You can transfer via siphon or positive pressure by
chasing it with CO2.  As I recall, remember this is from memory, you may
need to remove the ball from the liquid side, as this may act as a backflow
preventer.  Again, get to know your tap.  With everything back together,
tap the keg with your clean and sterile Sankey tap.  Hook up your beer
hose, fill and remove your tap.  The keg is now sealed.  Hose off the
indented top of the spear lest it grow something nasty.  You should put all
the pieces back in the tap, tap the keg and force carbonate per your normal
regimen.  I would not recommend priming to carbonate as you don't want to
produce more sediment you'll need to clean out later.  

If you simply use the keg for serving only, you shouldn't have problems in
cleaning.  I would clean it immediately after use each time.

I got my kegs at a junk yard in New Hampshire.  Gosh, what a place--The
motherlode with cornies, Sankey kegs, and other ss goodies galore!  If you
go the junk yard route, check to see if 1) they still retain pressure; and
2) there is still free liquid sloshing around in there (you don't want one
that has gunk dried up in there).  If these two criteria are not met, move
on to the next candidate.  I scored all I could carry out of there for
scrap value of $10 each.  When depressing the ball to test Sankey's, be
prepared for a possible shower with less than pleasing smelling liquid.  


Equipment supplier links:

http://www.superprod.com/
http://www.4rapid1.com/

Hope this helps.

Rick Foote
Yankee in a Strange Land and
Owner/Operator Whistle Pig Brewing and Home Remodeling
Murrayville, GA







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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:02:56 -0500 
From: Chad Bohl <Chad_Bohl at digi.com>
Subject: low dough-in rate

Fellow brewers...

Does anyone have any experience with a dough-in rate of about 
2/3 qt. water per pound grain? 

I recently converted to 10 gal batch sizes and brewed the first last 
weekend. I used a 3 step mash applying direct heat under a 10 gal 
stainless pot with 1/2" copper manifold/false bottom which rests on 
the bottom of the mash tun. Severe scorching resulted from grains 
that wedged themselves under the manifold during the direct heat/mixing. 
I tried to go slow and stir like a mad man, but things just didn't work out. 

So I would like to try a 3 step using boiling water additions. Using a 
3 step with 1 1/3 qt. per pound dough in, I'd end up with a total volume 
of water of about 13 3/4 gallons (not including the 20 lbs. or so of grain) 
overflowing my 10 gal mash tun. If I use about 2/3 qt. per pound, I get
 around 7 1/4 gallons which is manageable.

I'm brewing a wheat with about 1/2 barley and 1/2 wheat malt. My concern 
is the grist becoming very doughy after the protein rest and/or no priming 
for conversion. Is the low dough-in (2/3 qt. per lbs.) too low? Has anyone 
experienced this? Are there any adverse affects? Should I just relax and 
not worry (I'd have a homebrew anyway)???

Chad


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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 12:08:32 -0400 
From: "Hampo, Richard (R.)" <rhampo at ford.com>
Subject: Sanitizing on the cheap

Howdy all!

Since traffic is light, I thought I'd ask a question that has been bothering
me for a while regarding sanitizing.
I use Iodophor for sanitizing carboys, kegs, and buckets. However, being the
frugal type, I typically don't fill the whole carboy (or keg or whatever). I
put in a quart or two and slosh the stuff around for the specified couple
minute contact time. 
The question is: Does the recommended contact time mean submersion or is
"wet" OK? I have not had any trouble with this method for the 5+ years I
have been using it but I just wondered if anyone has any data. Please don't
reply with "Iodophor is cheap so just waste it like I do" kind of responses
but rather help me understand the difference, if there is one, between
submerged and just wet.

Thanks!

Richard J. Hampo
H&H Brewing Ltd.
Livonia Michigan



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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:06:25 -0700
From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org>
Subject: RE; Electrical Question

Bill asks about adding a "main" power switch to his HERMS:

Running a 10 amp breaker for a 2000w heater will probably trip a fair
amount. My system uses a relay for the main on/off. That way you can use
a regular low amp mini plug, and I can hook the relay to my overheat
shutdown. Although in my system the main power relay isn't that
important, and could safely be done without, I like having a main that
cuts all power to everything instantly. I also use a relay for the
heating element (mine is an old fashioned electric RIMS), as my temp
controller has a 9v output. If you get a relay for your heating element,
get a solid state one, or a mercury displacement type, as regular
mechanical relays will burn out in a short time from the typical
"fluttering" the temp controller will give it keeping the temp stable.

As to wire, I use all 10 gauge on the power side, with soldered
connections. Soldering very much improves the connection, crimp
connectors can often be the source of problems anyway. And don't forget
to run the whole thing through a GFI first!

Have fun building yer HERMS. I had so much fun building my RIMS. In
fact, after I finish my bio-reactor I may well convert to HERMS. Even
though the RIMS works great. And as Wayne or C.D. said (I forget which),
you can call your system done when two successive trips to the hardware
store cost less than five bucks!!

Guess mine ain't *quite* done yet...

Jonathan Peakall






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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 12:39:31 EDT
From: Dalefogg503 at cs.com
Subject: Barley wine carbonation

I have a barley-wine (OG 1.100 - FG 1.012) that has been in the secondary 
since November. My question is this, what is the best way to carbonate this? 
Force carbonate, or is there enough active yeast left to just prime and 
bottle? And speaking of bottles, I would like to bottle in smaller (6-8 oz) 
bottles, but all of the sources that I have checked do not have any thing 
like this. Any suggestions? Thanks in Advance for your help.

Dale Fogg
Pittsburgh, PA


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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 11:01:55 -0600
From: "Whyman Dental Lab, Inc" <whymandl at milehigh.net>
Subject: Hops and cornie ferments

Hello all,
I have recently done quite well with some very hoppy beers (MCAB II &
World Cup of Beer) which I attribute to the high quality of hops that I
get from Just Hops in Colo. Springs. They're at
www.angelfire.com/biz/justhops/ or 719-528-5920. For smaller quantities
of the same hops, go to www.myhomebrew.com or 719-528-1651. I hope this
doesn't sound like a commercial, but these guys have sold me great hops
and given me great service. No connection or financial interest; just a
very satisfied long-time customer, yadda yadda yadda.

On fermenting in cornies, I have been doing primary in two 10 gal.
cornies for awhile now and all I did was to cut off 1 in. from the dip
tube. I use a quick disconnect on the gas side with a hose into an Oxine
solution (blow off tube). I then transfer into three 5 gal. cornies(I do
15 gal. batches). There is no need to cut off the tube in secondary as
you transfer very little yeast with the shortened tube in primary. After
secondary, I chill to 32F to drop the yeast and transfer very clear beer
to a serving keg to be force carbonated.
Private emails if you have any ?'s are ok.

Roger Whyman
Englewood, CO



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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:03:03 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Sierra Nevada Porter Clone

Matt asked for a clone recipe for Sierra Nevada Porter (my favorite
beer).

Here is my recipe that I derived from conversations with the brewer at
SN about 6 years ago.

Port O' Palmer
Malts
6 lbs. of Pale Malt Extract (syrup)
1/2 lb. of Chocolate Malt
1/2 lb. of Crystal 60L Malt
1/4 lb. of Black Patent Malt

BG for 3 Gallons  1.079
OG for 5 Gallons   1.048

Hops
1 oz of Nugget (10%) at 60 minutes
3/4 oz of Willamette (5%) at 40 minutes
1/2 oz of Willamette (5%) at 20 minutes

Total IBUs  39

Yeast: American Ale

Options
All-Extract
4 lbs. of Pale Malt LME
2 lbs. of Amber DME
1 lb. of Dark DME.

All-Grain
7.5 lbs. of 2 Row Base Malt
or British Pale Ale Malt
1/2 lb. of Chocolate Malt
1/2 lb. of Crystal 60L Malt
1/4 lb. of Black Patent Malt

I first brewed this recipe just before the Northridge earthquake, and
fortunately the fermenter didn't tip over during it. I don't know if
it roused the yeast any, but it could have been a factor! Very good
beer.
John



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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 14:29:54 -0500
From: "Chris Schiffer" <schiffer at northernbrewer.com>
Subject: Re: Belgian Wit

Dear HBD,
  Interesting to know.  Lynne claims she "will not reveal the type of
coriander nor orange peel."  But I will.  The orange peel is Spanish  or
Haitian grown and the coriander is a good high oil content coriander
intended for use in the liquor and liqueur industry.  Both can be purchased
in 60lb to container quantities from a spice wholesaler in Memphis TN.
Celis uses both orange colored bitter orange peel from Spain, and green
bitter orange peel from Haiti.  The Spanish is considered of better quality
but the peel from Haiti is also of good quality.  Both are different and
some folks do like the peel from Haiti better.  The Curacao orange is a
bitter orange in the same family as the Spanish and Haitian bitter oranges,
and is also of good quality, and again is different, not better or worse.
All can be used in brewing with good success.


Chris Schiffer
Northern Brewer, Ltd.


>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:38:21 -0500
>From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at realtime.net>
>Subject: Belgian Wit
>
>        The spices in Celis White and the original Hoegaarden are neither
>Curacao orange peel nor the coriander available to homebrewers.  Pierre
>Celis pointed this out to me a year ago.  Pierre was in the shop a month
>ago, reminded me again that I was selling the wrong stuff, and arranged for
>me to order the coriander and orange peel used in Celis White.  Expected
>next week.  Coriander is graded on oil content.  This is the highest grade
>coriander.  I will not reveal the type of coriander nor orange peel.
>
>With regards to a Wit recipe, between us girls, you might omit bittering
hops.
>
>Lynne O'Connor
>
>




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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 22:39:45 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: re: HSA ( aka hot wort oxidation)

Mister (sorry!.... Dr.) Dave Burley had some objections about my ideas
and expriences with "the dreaded".


It would seem that we do not attend the same church.

Dr. Pivo XVII

P.S.

There is one very good suggestion about changing the name, however....

> 
> I guess I don't understand the fuss over whether or not HSA (who invented
> that stupid term, anyway?) or as I call it in real English  "hot wort
> oxidation" exists.

I would suggest that HSA be translated as "Highly Suspicious
Admonitions", and "hot wort oxidation" be translated as.... "hot wort oxidation"

The latter should be an exclusive research area for the burley doctor,
and not left ubtil he's sure he's right (that may well be within the
next eight seconds).

we will retain this nomenclature so that, nobody who has read a book
published after 1956 will become confused.

D.S.


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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:23:38 +1000 
From: Graham Sanders <GrahamS at bsa.qld.gov.au>
Subject: RE: FWH, an observation.

G'day all

Thought I throw an observation into the debate of FWH, and a possible
explaination, (in part), as to why FWH might work.

I ferment in 22 litre soda kegs. One of the many advantages of this is that
it concentrates the foam and scum.  It makes skimming a real and practical
possibility.  I skim all my beers, as I am a firm believer that it produces
a much smoother beer.  Of course this is very subjective.  I believe you
remove the coarser bittering agents out of the beer that could redisolve
into the beer as alcohol is produced.

Anyway I made my first FWH pilsner on 10 days ago.  I keep routinely going
to the fridge to skim it.  The funny thing is there is hardly any offending
scum on the top, mainly just cold break material, by the look of it (I use a
counter-flow cooler). Where in the past I would have to skim after a couple
of days and do it 4 or five times, this beer I have only skimmed once, and
thats after 10 days. 

Is it possible that FWH removes this material somehow out of the wort.  It
may somehow react with the proteins before the hot break forms, or bind with
it with the hot break.  If you continue this track, this could explain the
different flavours people pick up with FWH.  Perhaps FWH is performing a
"skimming service", giving similar results.  MIND THE FACT that this is an
observation only.  Anyway,  this gives the forum another angle to discuss.

Shout

Graham Sanders


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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 17:44:50 -0500
From: Jeff Lutes <jlutes at osprey.net>
Subject: Re: Electrical Question

Ok, Watts=Volts*Amps so, at 110 volts and 2000 watts would mean you would
be drawing over 18 amps...Don't think your 10Amp breaker or your toggle
switch is going work.

You need to either install or have installed a 20Amp breaker in your
service panel. (PLEASE be careful if you do it yourself and if you don't
know what your doing, pay to have it done...better safe than sorry!)  For
power cords, look for heavy-duty extension cords that are rated at 20Amps
or at Romex and hard-wire it.  As for your main power switch, I would look
for a single-breaker panel and install a 20Amp GFI breaker.  You might get
the specs for your coil and take them to the hardware store to make sure it
isn't going to surge and trip a GFI but if there's any way possible, use
it.  It will provide an extra level of security against shorts and shocks.

Gemus Brauen Haus



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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 15:31:40 -0800
From: "Alex MacGillivray" <sockeye at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: English/Scotish ales 

Does anyone have a recipie for an English or Scotish ale that might have
been brewed around the 1890's.

Thanks,
Alex MacGIllivray
brewbeer at usa.net



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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:34:55 -0700
From: "scott" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com>
Subject: Water analysis help please

We recently received the latest water analysis from our community well.
This is my first attempt at altering brew water chemistry.  Presently, I
mainly brew Hefe's in summer, and Pilsner's in the fall (all-grain), and
charcoal filter all brewing water.

Ca++   6.2 mg/L
Mg++   1.4mg/L
Na+      85mg/L
Cl          24mg/L
Fl          2.7mg/L

Alkalinity as CaCo3 (total alkalinity?)    137mg/L
Hardness    (CaC03)                                  21mg/L
Sulfate, Iron                                              Not Detected


I'm not a chemist, and it has been 10 yrs. since my last chemistry class, so
I hope I didn't offend any stoichiometry purists.  However, I sure would
like your input!  I am Assuming that mg/L is roughly the same as ppm
(http://web.aircreationtrike.com/jkimball/biologyPages/P/Ppm.html).

Reading Dave Miller's "Homebrewing Guide", it would seem that my brewing
water (as is) would be better suited for dark beers.  However, my wife and I
mainly enjoy the lighter, pale beers.

For pale beers, would I be better off adding phosphoric acid to reduce the
water alkalinity, then increase the Ca++ content with CaCl?  Any other
comments?

Thanks for any help,

Scott
Richland, Wa.




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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:06:10 +1000
From: Wes Smith <wessmith at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Brassed Off...

Lynne O'connor, Wayne Holder, Dave Lamotte (AKA the Vinegar Victualler) and 
others have been discussing the lead content of brass and the removal of 
same. I got very curious about this a couple of months ago and went looking 
through my favorite search engine "Dogpile" Yes folks - that's its real 
name www.dogpile.com if you want to try it.

I came up with a website that has about 40 different alloys of "brass" 
listed. Turns out that lead is added mostly in the 2% to 5 % range for 
easier machinability and for lubrication on bearing surfaces. As to the 
rest of the alloys - I gave up in confusion! Just too many. website is 
www.matweb.com/GetKeywordMatls.asp

I would question the permanence of any lead removing surface treatment 
though. Just take a look at any brass surface that has been in lengthy 
contact with beer (like a font setup at a busy bar) There is ongoing 
erosion of exposed surfaces. Dave - you might like to comment on this one.

Oh yeh - I do like your vinegar recipe Dave. I'll give it a try as I feel 
the need for another batch of honey pickled onions coming on...

Wes Smith
Mostly 316 Brewery
Southern Highlands


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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:06:59 EDT
From: FredScheer at aol.com
Subject: Forced Carbonation

thager at hcsd.k12.ca.us>  wrote:
Subject: Fermentor-to-Keg Flavor/Aroma Experiment

Troy:

I found that forced carbonation will give a change or lack of flavors.
For your 5 gallon brew I recommend to use 3/4 cup of priming sugar
and let still ferment by ~ 60* F in the closed keg.
If you let the keg ferment for 7 - 10 days, than cool to ~ 33 - 35* F
for one week and you will have enough carbonation in your brew 
without flavor changes.

Happy Brewing,
Fred M. Scheer
BOSCOS Brewing Co.
Nashville, TN


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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:16:10 EDT
From: FredScheer at aol.com
Subject: Secondary under pressure

Matt Hollingsworth wrote:
Subject: Secondary under pressure

Matt:
As long as you have enough residual sugar left for the yeast
to produce CO2 during secondary fermentation, you are fine.
If your brews end-fermentation degree would be ~ 2* Plato,
I recommend to end the primary fermentation at ~ 3* Plato,
cool and transfer in the carboy. This would be enough for
your secondary fermentation to carbonate at low temperature
in about 3 weeks.

Beerfully,

Fred M. Scheer
BOSCOS Nashville Brewing Co.
Nashville, TN


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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:43:04 +1000
From: "Kevin Mc Lean" <mcleank at brampton.cqu.edu.au>
Subject: Hoarhound and hop extract

Dear Brewsters,
			my wife has recently taken an interest in my brewing (something about it
actually being quite drinkable now)and asked me to brew up some hoarhound. I
gather it's made from malt, hops and the herb.Could anyone spare me a
recipe?

			On a related subject, could anyone give me some advice about using hop
extract oil. Is it useful? How do you use it? In what quantities?

Regards,


Kevin Mc Lean.




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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:39:34 EDT
From: Thepfhb at aol.com
Subject: Takeing Pilzn and Praha by Storm

Greetings HBD--

From a internet bar in Praha directly across from the staropamen brewery a
few blocks from our hotel. U Flecku is next. We spent all morning at PU.
Got a private tour by the number two brewer!!! PU has enough diacytel even
I can detect it. Eric Schoville can taste it, where as i feel it more in
the mouthfeel. The unfiltered version served the old fashing way in the
celler is more hoppy and a little sharper. almost no diacytel to my
tasting. Its there, im sure but disquised by the larger hop presence. We
got into pilzen late last night and and stayed at the hotel and
drank....about 47 PU's between the 5 of us!!! 3 of us got up to go to the
beer museum. very interesting! Staropamen has 3 new beers.  a stout called
Kelt. Served on Nitro nice roast aroma, smooth flavor, head like a rock.
better than the average brewpub but on the mellow side. Velvet is a 12
plato premium amber lager. Most impressive is the Nitro head-so thick you
can chew it. Literally like whip cream. left 30% of!! the 1.25 inch head
on the bottom of the glass.The have a Staropramen Millenium a premium
lager originally brewed in the 1930's as Garnet. Fruity spicy aroma
delicately bitter. its ok. best is Staropramen Kvasnicak it is the
unfiltered version of the regular Lezak (lager).

Koln was awesome. Sion, Gaffel, Alt gelrpuffen, Maltz Muhlen,PJ Frug,
Papajoe's,Gilden were all awesome, Sunner tasted more like a pilsner.

Dusseldorf
Zum Ueriges, Zum Schlussel and Ate Haxe at Im Fuchschen just simply
awesome!!!!!!!!!

Thats all for now, burp, on our way to U Flecku!!!!!!!

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery




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Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:15:27 -0400
From: "John Stegenga" <bigjohns at mindspring.com>
Subject: Competition Reminder - PEACH STATE Brew-Off 2000

Just a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, that the Peach State Brew-off 2000 is
just around the corner! If you're interested in judging or stewarding we
need to hear from you soon! It is with your help that we continually make
this one of the premier competitions in the Southeast.
This year we have LOTS of great prizes! Please excuse this
'psudo-commercial' post. See the website for all the details!
http://www.geocities.com/redusc/psbo2000.html



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---