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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Stainless Steel brewing vessels (Michael Bergman)
  Stainless Steel Pots (& Rapids) (peg)
  Glass carboy blow up (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
  exploding glass carboys (Marty Albini)
  Need help with strong sour/bitter aftertaste
  Blowoff (glass vs. plastic) (b11!wiley!wiley)
  Brewing Facilities (Rob McDonald)
  Too Much Foam (Rob McDonald)


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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 89 09:47:55 EST
From: bergman at m2c.org (Michael Bergman)
Subject: Stainless Steel brewing vessels


I had been keeping my mouth shut, on the assumption that I didn't have
anything to add to the discussion, but have come to the conclusion
that that is not necessarily the case.  

In the Boston area, for commercial grade cooking utensils, including 5
and 10 gallon heavy duty stainless steel pots, the place to go is
Chinatown.  There are two or three restaurant suppliers there.  One of
them is named Seidman's, I have forgotten the name of the other but it
is on Harrison St.  A 5 gallon pot costs, as best I recall, between
$70 and $90 dollars (I think $90).  If you are considering a
Revere-ware 3.5 gallon pot for $50, such as Mr. Harris describes, you
should definitely look into this.  Most Revere ware comes into the
category "light weight" as compared to restaurant quality stuff.

Most major cities have similar places.  Look under "Restaurant
Supplies" in the yellow pags.

Note that some of the other suggestions that have been made represent
a better price/gallon ratio -- for lighter weight equipment.
This is a perfectly reasonable trade-off. 

Also check the auction pages of your local paper for restaurants going
out of business.

- --mike bergman
	      Massachusetts Microelectronics Center
	      75 North Drive, Westborough, MA  01581, USA +1 (508) 870-0312
	UUCP: (...harvard)!m2c!bergman    INTERNET:   bergman at m2c.org         


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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 89 07:13:01 PST
From: peg at Rational.COM
Subject: Stainless Steel Pots (& Rapids)

I bought a 24 qt. stainless steel pot from Rapids a couple of months ago.
The prices in their 89 catalog are no longer correct: the 24 qt. pot had gone
up to $65.00 when I bought mine.  I don't remember the prices of any of the
other sizes.

These pots are of much heavier steel (20 gauge, I think) than the cheapo
stainless steel pots I've seen elsewhere.  The handles seem to be well attached.
I saw a 20 qt. pot at Service Merchandise for $30-$40, but it was much thinner.

Note that the pots from Rapids are stainless steel only, and the bottom is
no thicker than the sides.  I got some burning on the bottom (in the shape
of the coils on my electric range), but I didn't use the trick of turning
off the burners while dissolving extract.  Pots such as Revereware, with
a copper-laminated bottom, or Wearever, with an aluminum-laminated bottom,
will be much better than this, but prices for these are quite a bit higher.


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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 89 10:08:41 MST
From: roberts%studguppy at LANL.GOV (Doug Roberts  at  Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Subject: Glass carboy blow up


> I used a glass carboy with a blow off tube connected to an airlock ONCE. 
> Unfortunately, the tube got clogged so the pressure built up enough to blow the 
> airlock out completely.  In the process my wife and I got to scrape gunk off 
> the ceiling for about an hour.

I didn't think I was alone in having had this experience!

Happy Holidays.

- --Doug

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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 89 9:58:42 PST
From: Marty Albini <martya at hpsdl39>
Subject: exploding glass carboys

	The recent discussion about glass carboys has prompted me to
issue a Paranoid Safety Alert. 

Glass is brittle; this means when it is in tension (as a pressure 
vessel is) its fracture strength is unpredictable. Not neccessarily 
low, but unpredictable.

	For this reason, using a glass carboy for a primary fermenter
would scare the bejeezus out of me. In primary fermentation, pressures
rise rapidly (probably too rapidly for any available leak paths to
deal with) should the vent plug. The energy stored in the compressed
CO2 in the headspace is truely amazing--and potentially lethal.

	Charlie Papazian, a nuclear physicist and experienced
homebrewer, recommends using carboys with little headspace and a LARGE
diameter vent tube to blow the krausen out, thus reducing fusel oil
content and mysterious (and unexplained) "off flavors." I have tried
this method, with no detectable benefits.

	According to Byron Burch, at last count, Charlie had blown up
two carboys.

	Don't mess with it.
- --
________________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"The above opinions were created by a trained professional. Do not
attempt to duplicate these thought processes at home."
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya%hp-sdd at hp-sde.sde.hp.com (or  at nosc.mil,  at ucsd.edu)
CSNET    : martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 89 14:38:12 EST
From: bagend!slammer!brad at gatech.edu

Subject: Need help with strong sour/bitter aftertaste

I've brewed four batches so far.  Batch #3 is a honey lager and still
fermenting.  Batch 1 was the John Bull English Ale kit (unfortunately with
#2 of corn sugar, I know better now.)  Batch #2 was Papazian's Cushlomachree
Stout.  Batch #3 was Papazian's Rocky Raccoon Crystal Honey Lager (with Paul
Arauner KG Bavarian Lager Yeast.)  Batch #4 was Colonel John's "County Laois
Pale Ale" (Zymurgy Vol 12 #5 page 54) with an extra #1/2 of toasted malted
barley for flavor.  I used the yeast with the Montmellick kit.  The John Bull
Ale, the stout, and the Pale (just now) have all been bottled. The problem I
have has so far manifested itself in the two Ales (haven't tried the stout
yet.) The beer tastes great as long as it is in your mouth, but after
swollowing it quickly develops a strong sour/bitter aftertaste that lingers
quite a while.  The question I have is:  Is this just a sign that it needs to
age?  It's only been a week since I bottled the John Bull kit and the Pale was
just bottled an hour ago.  I would like to think this will go away in a few
weeks (couldn't wait to try it!)  Has anybody out there any advice or similar
experiences ?  I have no idea if this is a "yeast bite", an ester, a wild
yeast, or what.  All I know is it's awful (but less noticable if it's cold.)
Please make me feel better and tell me it's common and will go away in a few
weeks!
     Thanks,
     Brad Isley
     { world }!gatech!bagend!slammer!brad


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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 89 22:06:21 -0500
From: ingr!b11!wiley!wiley at uunet.uu.net
Subject: Blowoff (glass vs. plastic)

Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:
> I'm using plastic for primary (~3 days), glass for secondary. I'm a bit
> leery of going all-glass, as a couple of my super-heavy (OG > 1.060)
> batches have blown the lid off my primary; it's a tight fit getting the lid
> on, so pressure must be intense. I now hook up a blow-off tube -- rather
> than a fermentation lock -- for the primary, and I've *still* gotten
> blow-up.  The beers have (fortunately) ended up tasting fine, so I don't
> think it's wild yeast partying-down...
>
> With this kind of pressure, I'd worry about glass shrapnel from a carboy
> primary. Any thoughts? Ideas why heavy brews blow up? Thanks.

Some other members of the club and I have switched to 1.5 inch diameter
blow off tube.  It's just the perfect size to fit into the neck of a
carboy plus you can clean it with a bottle brush.  I have had great
success using it thus far even with copious quantities of blow off.
Further, I've never even heard of anyone getting one clogged.  The
tubing is available from:
	Alternative Beverage
	627-A Minuet Lane
	Charlotte, NC 28217
	1-800-365-2739 (except NC)
	
As for glass vs. plastic, I've had many fewer infection problems
after switching to all glass.  I know that plastic primaries are
convenient, but wild things have the best chance at your brew before
your carefully selected bugs have had a chance to start.  Thus, it
would seem that glass primaries are more important than glass secondaries.

dave wiley
uunet!ingr!b11!wiley!wiley


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Date: 	Sun, 24 Dec 89 01:10:10 EST
From: Rob McDonald <hplabs!rutgers!maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca!rob>
Subject: Brewing Facilities

I have recently started homebrewing, and am definitely hooked.  I
am going to convert a corner of my basement into a brewing
kitchen this winter.  I have a large sink and several countertops
from an old laboratory.  If you were building a brewing area what
would you include?  Those of you who have done this already, what
would you do differently?  Please email me directly and I will
post a summary of responses in a couple of weeks if there is interest.
....rob

EMAIL: rob at maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca  ARCHAIC: Stelco Technical Services Ltd.
  ...!utzoo!utgpu!maccs!rob                 1375 Kerns Rd., Burlington
  ...!uunet!mnetor!maccs!rob                Ontario, Canada, L7P 3H8
Don't blame the school or my employer, the opinions expressed are my own.

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Date: 	Sun, 24 Dec 89 16:01:58 EST
From: Rob McDonald <hplabs!rutgers!maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca!rob>
Subject: Too Much Foam

I recently made a batch  of  "Kwoffit  Export  Homebrew  Bitters"
which was by far the best homebrew I have tried yet.  Even though
it is not a heavy brew, I was interested in trying to make  some-
thing  similar, but lighter tasting, as many of my friends prefer
very light beers.  I decided to experiment.  I made up  the  same
kit, with more water, six gallons instead of five.  I used enough
extra corn sugar to bring the SG up to 1.040, (this was the  ori-
ginal  SG  when  going by the real directions).  It took a little
bit longer than the first batch to ferment.  It is now about five
weeks  old.   Having  nothing else on hand I decided to give it a
try.  I transfered it from the carboy to a keg and put  it  under
pressure  to  carbonate  about  five days ago  at  35 psi.  The last
batch was done in a similar manner.  When I tapped off a glass of
the last batch, I had to tap very slowly to avoid getting a glass
of foam.  This batch seems to be impossible to tap.  All I get is
foam.   Can  anybody  suggest where I might have gone wrong?  Any
suggestions would be appreciated.
....rob
P.S.  The little bit I managed to get suggests that it will taste
      at least a bit like I intended, but it's young yet.

EMAIL:   rob at maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca  <<< Standard Disclaimers Apply >>>
ARCHAIC: Steltech, 1375 Kerns Rd., Burlington, Ontario, Canada, L7P 3H8.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #330, 12/25/89
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