HOMEBREW Digest #3317 Fri 05 May 2000

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Brian's email is changing ("Brian Dixon.")
  Things going wrong (Graham Sanders)
  peroxide diluting ("Dr. Pivo")
  Basics of Stepping-Up ("Spence")
  Reminder - Eighth Annual Dominion Cup (Frank Timmons)
  Smelling CO2 (Demonick)
  Brewing big beers ("Jim Busch")
  Leaf/Pellet hops for mash hopping ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Bleach again (Bill.X.Wible)
  Mommilies (RCAYOT)
  More on peroxide (Nathan Kanous)
  Big Brew Sign-Up ("Paul Gatza")
  Re: Mack & Jack's African Amber (JDPils)
  Re:  Bad Starters (JDPils)
  diacetyl control ("George de Piro")
  Dr Cones Yeast Replies (Aleman)
  35%H2O2 Danger (James Jerome)
  Yeast propagator ("Pannicke, Glen A.")

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th * More info at: http://www.hotv.org/fest2000 Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 22:12:46 -0700 From: "Brian Dixon." <briandixon at home.com> Subject: Brian's email is changing I'm going to be doing a change in online services soon, so my email address will no longer be valid as of Monday, May 8th. Please use either briandixon at hotmail.com or brian_dixon at hp.com for now. Thanks! Brian N44 35' 54" W123 14' 56" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:16:57 +1000 From: Graham Sanders <GrahamS at bsa.qld.gov.au> Subject: Things going wrong G'day all In the spirit of all things going wrong its my turn. Years ago I used to use the 25 litre plastic buckets as fermenters and like now do my brewing outside, being banished by the better half from the kitchen and inside the house in general. Well after spending the better part of the day making a wonderful porter, there it was sitting nicely in the fermenter. Pitched the yeast starter, all is wonderful in the world. "nows where the lid" one asks. "oh inside the house" I quickly reply. No problem, in and out I go. Upon my return wonderful ripples greet me. A fearful look confirms a fly doing backstroke laps at a great rate of knots. After he does 3 laps in front of me I panick. Got to get him out - "oh shit where is that spoon", as he turns for another lap. No spoon, so in goes my hand and out goes a rather annoyed fly who protests loudly "i'm in training, how dare you". Now the mind ticks over, "do I reboil" - no is the answer, got no yeast to pitch and cant get any. "yes i'll just laddle off some of the liquid off the top". A dash into the kitchen and after howls of protect from she who must be obeyed, out I come with some kitchen utensils. My German sheperd, Rumpold is always willing to help in these situations. A stern "sit" put him in his place. Well he sees me setting up the kitchen utensils and being a smart dog works out what I am going to do. Now as I turn my back he thinks "yes - my tongue will do the job much better, lets please the master". Now I will testify the sounds of Rumpole skimming the top of my wort is not pleasant, but you cant get mad at him for helping. Well I gave up. Put the lid on, into the refrigerator and wait. Well as all who have said before, the beer came out fine with all the problems. Maybe it was the porters ability to hid off flavours, or the big starters I use I dont know. But yes brewing can be all forgiving. It amazes me that you can really stuff a brew up and it turns out all right, and yet other times breath the wrong way and its ruined. One thing I did change is my type of fermenter. Old "Rumps" can't drink out of them now. Shout Graham Sanders Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:33:14 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: peroxide diluting Wes Smith points out from the highlands (elevation:about 80 meters), the following regarding diluting 35 percent peroxide: > We effectively diluted to > around 5% for use but had found that the weaker commercial solutions lost > there effectiveness very quickly and we could not predict the reaction as > we could from the 35% solution and... > Just be aware that weaker (3 or 6% solutions) of H2O2 > have a definite shelf life at their stated strength. And I am expecting that Wes and his mates, were like myself compounding this problem by diluting with "regular water"... there's always "something" in a non deionized water that will kick off the oxygen liberation movement. That's why I like to have a concrete floor handy for testing "older" mixes... I figure if it "hisses" it's good. I have, by the by, already warned Wes about other possible uses for pool cues, and would recommend that if he drops his change at the bar, just leave it. I first became aware of this problem when Jill wrote me privately, asking if I knew of any good method for removing the blue chalk marks in Phil's undies. I of course, recommended peroxide. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 08:35:55 -0400 From: "Spence" <drwlg at coollink.net> Subject: Basics of Stepping-Up I have been lurking the HBD for several months now, and betwixt the tongue and cheek and follderall I have gained a fair amount of knowlege that has prompted me to move to a partial grain boil... and it worked and tasted great! (Don't know if I have the intestinal fortitude, or patience to go all-grain.) I also went with a liquid yeast this time and was quite pleased at the encouragement of Wayne Love. (By the way, Wayne... tax season is over... come out, come out wherever you are! Drop me a note to my new address... drwlg at coollink.net) Dr. Cone's articles were great... and I even understood some of them! Ha ha! What I would like is for some kind soul to give an account of the proper step by step way to "step-up" your starter. Give details so I know if I'm screwing things up yet! Include procedures for both liquid and dry yeast if possible... the uneducated of us are ready for more! Spence Graham (If you're not bleedin' you're not having fun!) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 06:55:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank Timmons <francis0001 at yahoo.com> Subject: Reminder - Eighth Annual Dominion Cup Just a quick reminder that the James River Homebrewers will be hosting the Eighth Annual Dominion Cup Homebrew Competition on Saturday, May 20, at the Legend Brewery in Richmond, VA. Entries are still being accepted through May 18. E-mail me back for entry info. I still have a need for a couple of judges, preference will be given to those in the BJCP program. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:18:42 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Smelling CO2 From: kevin m mueller <kmmuellr at engin.umd.umich.edu> >I put my nose to the neck of the 2.5 gal carboy that I was using and >the smell nearly knocked me over. Its a hard smell to describe, but >it was very sharp on my nose. If it was tingling, burning, or otherwise hurt, it was the almost pure CO2 in the headspace of the carboy. CO2 plus the water in your nose and/or mouth yields carbonic acid which at the levels we are talking about is an irritant. Don't worry, you'll live. Cheers! Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:13:13 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: Brewing big beers Bob asks about brewing big beers and yeast/oxygen. BTW, glad you like our Storm King! Stormy is right around 10% ABV and achieves this through a fairly normal pitching and fermenting process. A few tips: be sure to rest big beers mash in the 140s for good fermentability. be sure to pitch a huge quantity of yeast mass. Best way to do this if you dont have access to slurry from a micro, is to brew up a normal gravity beer, say 12-15P, like an ESB or pale ale and ferment this to completion. Rack off and reuse the entire yeast cake for your big beer. pump oxygen into the chilled wort at pitching time. Provided you get enough yeast biomass into the wort and fully oxygenate, you can easily produce clean 10% beers without additional oxygen added later. Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:13:11 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: Leaf/Pellet hops for mash hopping Trevor.Hyde at marquette.edu reports that he used 2 oz of Kent Goldings LEAF hops in his mash and didn't get significant aroma or flavor. We've found that pellet hops work best for mash hopping. Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant." ______________________________________________ Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:41:54 -0400 From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com Subject: Bleach again Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> writes: >It is often said, most recently by Bill Wible, that bleach requires a lot of >rinsing. Why is this? I have measured the effluent from my carboy after >rinsing using the chlorine test strips and it seems to follow the normal >rules of dilution. Is the bleach supposed to be sticking to the glass or is >it more of a loaves and fishes situation? > >As for rinsing with tap water, I agree that this seems silly, but I boil >water in a small saucepan with a good lid and this is enough to rinse 2 >carboys. Cheap, easy, fast, cheap, effective, and cheap. Well, I'm not a chemist, Jeremy, but what I know about homebrewers and their professions tells me that there are very high odds that somebody else who is reading this is. I can't give you scientific theory as to why bleach has to be rinsed well, other that the fact that it is a chemical that leaves residue. And I'm not 100% positive about that. I remember reading someplace that chlorophenols are detectable in beer by the 'average' person at extremely low levels. (Isn't it funny the 'average' person can't seem to taste sulfur, though) : ) Bleach can contribute chlorophenols. That's all I know. That's all I need to know. I stopped using it awhile ago. I'm not here to argue. If you have been using it and are getting good results, then I won't tell you to stop using it. You must be doing it right. Just be aware that if you ever come up with a beer that has a medicinal or phenolic taste, that could be the cause. Return to table of contents
Date: 04 May 2000 10:04:52 -0400 From: RCAYOT at solutia.com Subject: Mommilies Okay, here we go, Grant said: "Grant W. Knechtel <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Bleach vs. Stainless - Momily? ..... IMHO this doesn't qualify as a momily. Household bleach will indeed pit stainless. I have seen stainless completely corroded through, albeit at long contact times and high concentrations." Isn't THIS EXACTLY what a momily is? I mean sure someone you know told you about the chemistry, and you saw something that happened after "long contact times and high concentrations". I just want everyone to know I have used bleach for years, have been kegging for a couple of years and I use bleach to sanitize my kegs, 1/4 cup in 5 gallons water, invert the keg, bleed out the air in the gas and liquid tubes. Leave for up to two or three days, rinse, no problems. Sure there are better products, I should probably get some, but homebrewers should know that they can use bleach safely on SS. However, don't use it on Aluminum! So is the bleach a momily or not? Roger Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 13:11:43 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: More on peroxide Hey beermeisters. Here's some testimonial on peroxide as a sanitizer. http://www.execpc.com/~mjstouff/articles/vinegar.html nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:57:19 -0600 From: "Paul Gatza" <paulg at aob.org> Subject: Big Brew Sign-Up Hi everyone. Thanks to everyone who has registered for the AHA Big Brew. For those of you who are participating who have yet to register, here's a link to the registration page http://beertown.org/AHA/BB2000/bigbrewreg.htm. Gary and I are hosting site #97 at the Sunshine Meadery, just west of Boulder, with good friends, food and horseshoes and Kentucky Derby Party. I don't expect it to match the huge extravaganza planned for the Barr House Brewery in Michigan, but if you're in the Denver-Boulder area, you're welcome to come on by. The simultaneous toast is at 1 p.m. eastern, noon central. A quick review of the registered sites has listings for all over the U.S., and Poland, England, South Africa, Japan, Germany and Austria. Cheers to all Big Brewers. Paul Gatza (mailto:/paulg at aob.org) Director, American Homebrewers Association 736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO 80302 voice(303)447-0816 x 122 fax (303) 447-2825 Join the AHA at http://www.beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:44:06 EDT From: JDPils at aol.com Subject: Re: Mack & Jack's African Amber Nathan, Wanted to know about Mack & Jack's African Amber. The Cascade Brewer's Guild was given a nice reception and tour at the brewery in Redmond, WA. It was about two years ago, so I will pass on was I recall. They started out very small and have grown dramatically distributing their products in kegs only to local establishments in the Puget Sound region. The three beers I have tasted are AA, Seringetti Wheat, and Black jack Porter. All are fine beers. The beers are fermented very quickly and crash cooled, then kegged. The distribution process usually allows for two weeks of aging. The beers are also 'big' for their styles and I think this allows them more margin on such a quick process. I often wondered what would happen if the Amber was lagered for a few weeks. As for recipes I do not have any information. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jim Dunlap Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:44:08 EDT From: JDPils at aol.com Subject: Re: Bad Starters Chris, The only DME I have found which produces a healthy starter from any yeast source (smack pack, White Labs, previous batches) is Munton & Fison. I have not tried Breiss, but Laaglander is bad. Also, after the local brew shop burnt down I went to a couple others and got 'American' and 'English' which both produced poor quality starters. With these extracts my starters showed pressure in the air lock and only bubbles if you shok the container. I would also watch your pitching temp and SG. Shoot for no higher than 75F and 1.050, IMHO. Cheers, Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:48:08 -0400 From: "George de Piro" <gdepiro at mindspring.com> Subject: diacetyl control Hi all, Ryan writes regarding Ringwood yeast and diacetyl. He mentions that Wyeast recommends a diacetyl rest after fermentation. The following is some general buttery babble I recently wrote for the IBS Brewers Forum. It should answer Ryan's question: Ringwood yeast is a notorious diacetyl producer, but the brewer can do things to keep it at reasonable levels. Of course, "reasonable levels" is a personal thing, but be aware that diacetyl is something that only gets bigger with time, so if you like the level of butteriness in your beer 3 weeks from brewday, drink it fast and store it cold. Diacetyl production is proportional to yeast growth, so pitching a lot of yeast may help reduce the final level of diacetyl. The yeast need to be healthy as well: diacetyl isn't actually made by yeast (see below), and the precursor is converted to diacetyl at a relatively slow rate. If your yeast have crapped out (techie term), they won't be able to absorb the diacetyl. How does one know if their beer is going to end up with high diacetyl levels? There is a very simple test requiring no lab equipment at all that can answer this question for us. Before we get to that test, I will quickly review how diacetyl is formed by yeast (a proper understanding of how diacetyl is formed and reduced will lend clarity to the test procedure). Yeast do not actually make diacetyl, they make a compound called alpha acetolactate (AAL). It is this chemical that is oxidized to diacetyl. This oxidation is relatively slow at fermentation and lagering temperatures, but is conveniently accelerated by higher temperatures. That is why a diacetyl rest works for lager brewers: the fermentation is warmed to the low 60's F for several days to allow the faster conversion of AAL to diacetyl. The yeast will then consume the diacetyl, thus eliminating it from the beer. If an appreciable amount of AAL makes it into the final package and there is no active yeast to consume it, the beer will become buttery with time as the AAL oxidizes. The thermal abuse a beer experiences in the distribution chain will accelerate this. The following procedure will tell you if you have excess AAL in your young beer: After fermentation is complete, remove 2 small samples of beer from the fermentor. Aseptic technique is not necessary (other than not contaminating the fermentor). Put each sample into a jar that you can fit with a lid (a Mason jar would work well). Put one sample in a hot water bath and heat to about 140-150F for 20-30 minutes. Keep the other sample at room temperature (or less) during this time. Cool the heated sample down to about the same temperature as the room temperature aliquot by putting the jar in an ice bath. Remove the lids and smell them both. You will find one of the following results: A. If the cool sample does not smell of diacetyl, but the heated one does, then you have an excess of AAL in the young beer that will be converted to diacetyl in your packaged product. B. If both samples smell clean, yet the product develops a buttery note over time, it is likely that pediococcus is the culprit. (Note: If both samples are devoid of diacetyl and you are a lager brewer, you need not perform a diacetyl rest with this batch. Why waste time?) C. If both samples smell of diacetyl, and your fermentation is fairly warm, it could be that the yeast flocculated so early that it could not absorb the diacetyl that was produced toward the end of fermentation. It could also be that bacteria or respiratory deficient mutant yeast are at work. Plating the beer on differential media will help you to solve such microbial quandaries. If result "A" is obtained, you are not doomed to a buttery packaged product. If you are brewing a lager, now is the time to do that diacetyl rest. If you are brewing ales, simply allowing the yeast more contact time with the young beer will reduce the diacetyl as it is formed. You absolutely need active yeast in contact with the beer to reduce the diacetyl. If you are using a very flocculent yeast, like the Ringwood strain, there may not be enough yeast left in suspension to reduce the diacetyl. In this case, you need to either use a less flocculent strain, or kraeusen with fresh, active Ringwood yeast. You could try rousing the yeast, but without fresh wort to consume, the yeast may be pretty inactive and uninterested in deflocculating. The oxidation of the young beer that can be caused by rousing the yeast is, of course, detrimental to beer quality. Some of you might be wondering why I suggest taking two separate samples of beer, rather than just smelling the fresh sample before heating it. This is done because if the amount of diacetyl is not obvious to you, you are much more likely to tell the difference between the two samples if memory is not involved. You can also conveniently invite others to help you as "taste panelists." Have fun! George de Piro C.H. Evans Brewing Company at the Albany Pump Station (518)447-9000 http://evansale.com (under construction) Malted Barley Appreciation Society Homebrew Club http://hbd.org/mbas George de Piro C.H. Evans Brewing Company at the Albany Pump Station (518)447-9000 http://evansale.com Malted Barley Appreciation Society Homebrew Club http://hbd.org/mbas Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 20:52:18 +0100 From: Aleman <Aleman at brewmaster.demon.co.uk> Subject: Dr Cones Yeast Replies Hello All, I was stunned by the quality of the replies from Dr Cone, so Quickly mailed Rob Moline to ask if there would be any objection to me collecting the replies together and putting them on my web site. At the time he responded that he was going to do that and post them on the Lallemand site, however as usual, time for him is at a premium. I received a mail from him today telling me that I could go ahead. (Thanks Rob, No need to apologise, my plans often change through lack of time at the moment) So I would like the originators of the questions to give me permission to use their questions on the web site. They will get full attribution, as will Lallemand and Dr Cone. If any of you do object please email me Oh and Pat, will you give your permission for the articles to be so used on behalf of the HBD Gods? Thanks in advance for your needed co-operation. - -- Wassail ! The Scurrilous Aleman Schwarzbad Lager Braueri, Blackpool, Lancashire, UK Reply to Aleman at brewmaster dot demon dot co dot uk ICQ 46254361 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 20:52:45 -0600 From: James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net> Subject: 35%H2O2 Danger Uh, Brew-types, John Schnupp's comments from the Dirty Laundry Brewery are FOR REAL. Aside from some really great cleaning effects, a 35% hydrogen peroxide solution is a real hazard. If it will oxidize (very quickly and deeply) the proteins in your skin, and it will go berserk on more readily oxidized stuff. Check out any organic chemistry textbook under standard oxidizing reagents. Be advised that any organic solvents in the vicinity are particularly susceptible to the oxidation by H2O2.. It produces oxygen free radicals in sufficient quantity to go on a mission to find something to make go BOOM! If the stuff comes in contact with pesticide residue or unsaturated organic compounds and there just happens to be a catalytically active metal around (lots of them)...BAD THINGS can happen. The bad things are are great deal worse than a boil-over or an overpressuirized bottle letting loose. Please use less than 5% solutions for anything. Don't store or handle a 35% H2O2 solution without the serious precautions required. Pardon my language, but I shit you not...35% H2O2 has the potential to end your brewing experience permanently. If anyone is really curious, go to <www.sigmaaldrich.com> and look up hydrogen peroxide's MSDS (free). 4 milliters of 30% strength ruined a laboratory hood and ~$1500 US dollars of glassware, and came close to getting me kicked out of graduate school. James Jerome, Ph.D. Senior Research Scientist Chattem Chemials, Inc. Chattanooga, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:14:52 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Yeast propagator On 03 May 2000 Roger Ayotte wrote of Yeast propagator: >Well, I think that is where you are going a littel awry, those yeast >cuts are discussed in the context of collecting yeast from a full size >brew. In the case of growing yeast for homebrewing from a slant or >smack pack, you don't have to worry about that. If you set aside some >wort from a previous brew or make up some from DME, you can always >filter it (use a coffee filter) after the hot and cold break form and >then can it and get trub free media. I learned the coffee filter trick after much sighing from dumping the last inch of wort laden slop down the drain for every batch. It works great and I pressure can the leftovers. I do get some additional trub after canning though. I guess the high heat. Am I the only one? Anyway, I've gotten a few comments along the lines of the yeast fractions being for main ferments. The bottom cock can be there if you want it. I never get 1 gallon of leftovers so I'll have to supplement it with some malt extract anyway. It can be used to dump trub & hop particulates, or just there to facilitate easy collection. I have seen some layering of yeast in a large flask starter similar to what is seen in a main ferment. Usually only two layers, which I think is comprised mostly of dead cells and a bit of trub. >Be easily sterilized, not just sanitized. Big difference here, it >is important especially if you start from slants where the innoculum >is really small. This is a tough one for plastic, which then leaves us with metal and glass... But those are difficult for everyone to work with. I would not suggest inocculating a 1 gallon starter from a slant. Maybe from a smak pack. Definately from a pitchable vial. I'd use sucessive 10X step ups from a slant to 4 L (~1 gallon). >Should be able to add nutrient and oxygen (air) >without contaminating the starter. >should be able to be agitated, preferably magnetic stirrer. Being a former lab rat, I would love this (shaker plate even better!). But it doesn't work with a conical bottom. Brad Miller turned me on to the spinner flask. Conical bottom with a suspended angled blade driven by a magnet. They're used in some bioreactor designs and come in many sizes. If they had a bottom cock and were cheaper, they'd be perfect. Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 05/05/00, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96