---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  The Bill Pfeiffer Report ("Rob Moline")
  The Jethro Gump Report-AHA Vote ("Rob Moline")
  peracetic acid ("Dr. Pivo")
  Questions about Decoction ("Peter J. Calinski")
  Hydrogen peroxide (Andrew Stavrolakis)
  Mac & Jack's African Amber (Patrick Finerty)
  brewing mistakes... (Patrick Finerty)
  May is Mild Month (Jeff Renner)
  Bleach ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  Myrtle Beach, SC (GarthFanY2k)
  Beer Humor (haafbrau1)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

* Official AHA Big Brew 2000 Chat is located at
* http://www.skotrat.com/brc1.cfm

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Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 00:33:37 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

			The Jethro Gump Report

>From: msnyder at wm.com
>Subject: Question for Dr. Cone
>Greetings to all.
>I have a what appears to be a simple question for Dr. Cone.  I have several
>vials of pitchable liquid yeast that I won at a beer festival.  However I
>failedto use them within their expiration date.  In fact, they are now
>approximately 1
>year e>xpired.  Assuming I am able to get a successful starter going from
>yeasts, what would prevent the strain from remaining true to it's original
>form
>and being used?  Will the yeast strain degrade or less desirable attributes
>increase?  This information would also be a boon to those of us who like
the
>discounted prices available on expired liquid yeasts at our local homebrew
>shop.
>Mark Snyder


	This is obviously a question best suited for other manufacturers to
answer....


From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Just a little jab!
>> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:29:38 -0500
>> From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham at hypercon.com>
>> Subject: Patent law / Dr. Cone
>> While putting together the speakers for MCAB I, I had been
>> trying to get Dr.
>> Chris White of WhiteLabs to fly in and speak at the
>> conference.
>
>I noticed that Chris White will be the keynote speaker at this year's Great
>Canadian Homebrew Conference. It doesn't look like Dr Cone will be
involved.
>I guess just the prospect of speaking at a more prestigious event than MCAB
>was enough to lure Dr White out this time. ;-)


	There is a more prestigious event than the MCAB??? Damn, wait till I get my
calendar out....
	But, seriously.....!!

	Dr. Cone was interested in your event, however, as he is to be climbing Mt.
Everest, with 6 swimsuit models, in an attempt to brew the highest batch,
and break the North American continental record, he was obviously going to
be unavailable for the GCHC.
	He does, in fact, bemoan the fact that Chris White is going to be at your
event, however...'cos he does trust the good Dr. White explicitly, much more
than the models, who have a hard time balancing on high heels while carrying
the malt, water and hops necessary uphill for the brew, much less trust them
with the yeast! And the photographers for Sport's Illustrated and National
Geographic seem to be less trustworthy than the models, as they profess no
knowledge of anything other than ZIMA! At least the sports-models drink
Victory and 3 Floyd's!

	So Dr. Cone is extremely upset that Dr. White won't be around to help
him.....

	Maybe next year, Dr. White might be available to Dr. Cone to supervise the
staff? Then he might be assured of the record....And Dr. White might have
some ability to influence Bill Clinton and Tony Blair from hassling Clayton
to join the climb...........(Some guys just can't take NO!)


>From: JDPils at aol.com
>Subject: Question for Dr. Cone regarding yeast starters and dry malt
extract
>I have really enjoyed Dr Cone's comments on yeast.  Dr. Cone thanks!!
>Perhaps Dr. Cone, Chris White, or somone at Wyeast can comment on my
>observations.

	Perhaps some one else can comment on your
observations.
	They involve other manufacturers products...and while I know those products
to be of the highest standard, your question should be answered by folks
that know them best.

	OTOH, my experiences with dried extracts lie firmly in the MF and
Laaglander camps....both fine products, I recommend them...only thing to
note is that the Laaglander will always finish higher than the MF......more
unfermentables involved....which is useful knowledge to extract
brewers...trying to tweak out the difference between a dry finish and a
bigger bodied beer.

Cheers!
Jethro (Tongue Firmly In Cheek) Gump

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More
About Beer!"



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 01:08:30 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Bill Pfeiffer Report

			The Bill Pfeiffer Report

Gentlemen, Ladies....

	One of our own has passed....Bill Pfeiffer.....

	I would invite you to commemorate him in your own way, respectfully, and
most likely as he would desire...with a private thought...and a toast in his
direction.....
	I know he will understand...and thank you for it....as will his family....

	For those that wish to, flowers and words can be sent ..

Keehn Funeral Home
706 W. Main
Brighton, MI.    (810) 229-9871

	The funeral seems to be on Monday....but I would invite every Big Brew Site
to remember him in your efforts on the weekend....collectively....

Rob Moline



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Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 01:33:51 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report-AHA Vote

			The Jethro Gump Report-AHA Vote

The Election...AHA-BOA
	The date draws near......ballots must be postmarked by the 15th of May....

	The candidates are....
Scott Abene
Pat Babcock
Louis Bonham
John Carlson, Jr.
Stephen Mallery
David Miller
Randy Mosher
Lynne O'Connor
Martin Stokes


	These are folks willing to spend the time and effort to help you gain the
AHA you want....to build brewing from the basic to the almighty......
	I encourage all members of the AHA to vote for their 4 choices of the above
balloted candidates...and soon....

	If, for any reason...you have a problem that would prevent you from
voting....contact Paul Gatza at the AHA....or me directly.....

Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
AHA-BOA
515-268-1836 hm
515-450-0243 cell
brewer at isunet.net
jethro at isunet.net

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More
About Beer!"



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Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 11:45:24 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: peracetic acid

Nathan Kanous contributed a very nice link about using vinegar and
peroxide in turn as decontaminants.

At one point in contact (but not exactly those concentrations) this will
become peracteic acid, which is a fine cleaner in itself.

I have used this as well, but have stopped for the following reason:

My most sensitive lab equipment as a homebrewer are my eyes (and they're
pretty shot), and my pallate and nose (which remain surprisingly adroit).

If I have a problem in development, I want to know about it and head it
off.  If previous spills or old kegs in the cellar begin emitting the
smell of "vinegar", I know I most likely have an acetobacter or other
nasty focus of infection, that will require a "more thorough" cleaning
to see that it doesn't spread.  This is a particularly good one to get
rid of, since it loves low pH places to grow, and the low pH of your
beer, is one of the things that keep "just anything" from growing there
(and the reason that German Shepards can sometimes lap from the surface
with impunity).

I've found using peracetic acid totally masks my ability to smell any
other vinegary smells, and send a paranoia ripple down my spine... I had
a simliar infection in about 1983-84 whose source I finally located in a
counter flow chiller, and that "salad dressing" smell still awakens
grave feelings of dissapointment.

 ... but the stuff does work!

Dr. Pivo


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Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:47:51 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski at iname.com>
Subject: Questions about Decoction

I have some detailed questions about decoction mashing.  I want to brew a
German wheat beer.  I have pulled a typical mash schedule (3.5 Lb. Munich
dark, 5.3 Lb.. wheat)
from Classic Beer Styles #7, German Wheat Beer.  I included the whole
schedule so that the full context is presented.  My questions are at the

A) Mash 3 1/8 gallons water at 104 F and hold for 5 minutes.

B) Heat to 122F in 10 minutes and hold for 25 minutes.

C) Pull off the thickest 30 to 40 percent of the mash and heat in 15
minutes to 160F.

D) Allow to saccharify for 10 to 15 minutes then heat in 15 minutes to
boiling.

E) Hold the boil for 20 minutes then add the decoction to the main mash
over 10 minutes, raising the temperature of the whole mash to 145F.

F) Hold for 10 minutes then pull the second thick decoction which should
amount to 1/3 of the total mash.

G) Raise the temperature in 5 minutes to 160F, hold for 10 minutes, then
heat in 15 minutes to boiling.

H) Boil for 20 minutes then remix the two mashes, raising the temperature
of the whole to 147F.

I) Allow to saccharify for 15 minutes or until the iodine test is negative.

J) Heat to 169F, hold for five to 10 minutes and then transfer to the
lauter tun.

My questions are:

1) Step C says "pull off the thickest 30 to 40 percent of the mash".  What
does that mean?  Thirty to 40 percent of the total volume (grain + liquid)?

What exactly should I do at this step and what is the procedure?

2) Step D. I assume an iodine test is done here, right?

3) Step E.  What is the significance of "over 10 minutes".   I would assume
the temperature of 145F is the most important factor. If so, wouldn't it be
better to just add the decoction and then adjust the temperature with cold
water or heat?

4) Step F.  Again, what is pulled, how much, and how?

5) Step H.  I assume the answer to (3) holds here also.

Either posted replies or direct emails are fine. I'll consolidated the
results if necessary.


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY



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Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 10:05:55 -0400
From: Andrew Stavrolakis <andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu>
Subject: Hydrogen peroxide


All this talk of hydrogen peroxide makes me, the chemistry impaired, wonder
why we don't add it to our  cooled wort to oxygenate it? Instead of topping
off with water to make up boil losses and adjust to correct gravity (as I
normally end up doing) why not add hydrogen peroxide? 
************************************************************
Andrew J. Stavrolakis
Controller
LASPAU: Academic and Professional Programs for the Americas
25 Mount Auburn Street
Cambridge, MA 02138
phone:617-495-0543
fax:  617-495-8990
email:andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu
http://www.laspau.harvard.edu



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Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:40:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Finerty <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: Mac & Jack's African Amber

howdy,

i got this email from my brother (a friend of one of the brewers).
it's not super informative but at least gives you a place to start. 

 -patrick in toronto

=========

Most of the beer info is stuff Mac likes to keep as proprietary
information. I will say that we use Cascade and Mt. Hood Hops. It has
some residual sweetness therefore a higher terminal gravity. African
Amber is 5.9% A.B.V. It is unfiltered and dry hopped. Dry Hopping (or
addition of hops after the beer is finished) is a very important
component of the flavor profile. Our yeast strain is our own of
course, but an English Ale style should work well. It should be good
at ester production and should not be a super-attenuator. Good luck.


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Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:49:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Finerty <zinc at finerty.net>
Subject: brewing mistakes...

howdy folks,

here's good one for the books. unlike many of you i'm not reporting
something that turned out ok in the end. this is a perfect example of
why one should really follow the instructions when brewing!

i first brewed beer when i was a senior in university. i really don't
recall how it came out but i'm sure it was ok since i started brewing
again when i entered grad school in Salt Lake City, Utah.

my friend Brad and i pooled our minimal resources and bought the
requisite equipment to brew from extracts. after one successful batch
we decided to try a recipe for a porter that called for some grains
(no mashing). well, we picked up some chocolate and black patent and
added them to the pot with the extract. we then proceeded to boil this
mixture for an hour. 

if you could drink wood you would understand how this beer tasted. it
was one of the most foul beverages i've ever had and no amount of time
improved its flavor.

it broke my heart and was a pain in the ass to pour out 50 bottles of
this crap into the bath tub.

 -patrick in toronto
- -- 
       "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it."
 Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer
	      finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key
		 http://abragam.med.utoronto.ca/~zinc


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Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:37:15 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: May is Mild Month

Brewers

May is Mild Month - so says CAMRA, the Campaign for Real Ale.  Mild is an
easy drinking ale, most often dark, almost always low in gravity, low in
bitterness, and is a natural here in the US before the weather gets so warm
you want a lager.

Here is my most recent iteration:

Armstrong's Dark Mild

7.75 US gallons in the keg (8+ gallons in the primary fermenter)
OG 1.037, FG 1.010

8.5 lbs. Briess Ashburne malt*
1 lb. Durst 90L crystal
3 oz. Scotmalt chocolate
12 oz. Briess flaked maize

1.2 oz. very fresh whole EKG  at  6.2% alpha - 60 minutes
0.6 oz. ditto - 15 minutes

Huge repitch of Wyeast 1098 (Whitbread) (not my first choice but it was
what was available)

Untreated fairly high carbonate well water (alkalinity balanced by dark malts)

Started mash at 153F, dropped to 149 at 60 minutes, raised to 160F for 20
minutes, then mashed out at 170F.  Sparged with boiled and decanted well
water (for low alkalinity).  Collected ~7.5 gallons wort, topped with ~ 2
gallons sparge water before boil.

Fermented upper 60's to 70F, "dropped" the fermenting beer at 18 hours into
another fermenter with a fair amount of splashing to oxygenate the yeast,
then moved to 60F after 2-1/2 days as fermentation slowed.  Ready to keg at
five days.

Light bodied, chocolatey, fruity, slightly roasty, mildly bitter.  Quite
nice, if I do say so myself.  Can't wait for my hand pump to arrive.

*  I think Ashburne is a real key in creating the flavor I was after.  It
is a slightly darker version of pale ale.  See http:www.briess.com for
details.

For an even lighter bodied mild, substitute 12 oz. of sugar for one pound
of malt.

If anyone brews this, report back on HBD.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 13:36:28 -0700
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com>
Subject: Bleach

I should know better than to get into a pissin' match about 
momilies, but here goes...First i guess we need to define 
terms.  My understanding of a momily is a saying which 
"Mom" or someone else told you but experience shows 
to be false or insignificant.  Something handed down from
Mom to Mom so long it's accepted as fact without 
experimental or experiential support.  

An example is "if you do that you'll go blind" when you 
already had been doing it for years and didn't even need 
glasses yet.  If i'm misunderstanding what a momily is, i 
guess i need to concede the match now.  

Roger Ayotte replies in HBD 3317

 -snip-

"Grant W. Knechtel <GWK at hartcrowser.com>
     Subject: Bleach vs. Stainless - Momily?
     .....
     IMHO this doesn't qualify as a momily.  Household bleach will indeed 
     pit stainless.  I have seen stainless completely corroded through, 
     albeit at long contact times and high concentrations."
     
     Isn't THIS EXACTLY what a momily is?  I mean sure someone you know 
     told you about the chemistry, and you saw something that happened 
     after "long contact times and high concentrations".
     
     I just want everyone to know I have used bleach for years, have been 
     kegging for a couple of years and I use bleach to sanitize my kegs, 
     1/4 cup in 5 gallons water, invert the keg, bleed out the air in the 
     gas and liquid tubes.  Leave for up to two or three days, rinse, no 
     problems.  
     
     Sure there are better products, I should probably get some, but 
     homebrewers should know that they can use bleach safely on SS.

 -snip-

As i understand it, no, it is not EXACTLY what a momily is.  I 
personally observed stainless corroded by bleach.  
So this can and does happen in my personal experience, 
not what i have heard.  The reason *why* it occurs is what i 
reported from other's knowledge, but *why* is not relevant to 
whether it is a momily.

I concede, and did mention in the remainder of my original 
post this may not be a problem at the concentrations and 
contact times commonly used by homebrewers.  There is enough 
doubt in my mind that I won't take the risk on a regular basis.  
Iodophor is too cheap and easy to use though not as much so as 
bleach.  

I propose the following as momilies:

1.  Your beer will be ruined so you might as well throw it out now.

No, in many cases good beer will result despite our best efforts to 
screw it up.

2.  It's the water.

No, good beer can be made from most any potable water.

3.  The best beer can only be made with liquid yeast.

No, but there are some styles for which only liquid cultures are 
currently available.

4. Oxygenating your wort is absolutely needed.
5. Oxygenating your wort is absolutely a waste of time.

6. HSA is a scourge to homebrewers.
7. HSA is nothing to worry about.

Just love those conflicting momilies....

There are doubtless others at least as pernicious.  Prost!
 -Grant aka LabRat
Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei
Des Moines, WA, USA




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Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 19:27:03 EDT
From: GarthFanY2k at cs.com
Subject: Myrtle Beach, SC

Fellow homebrewers, 

I have been transferred by my employer to the Myrtle Beach, SC area.  Hoping 
you could help me with any good brew pubs and homebrew supply stores in the 
area.  Thank you all for the overwhelming response to my last post.  I have 
gained a wealth of knowledge from you all.  This newbie is getting ready to 
step up in the homebrew world.  Still doing extracts for now but will be 
trying liquid yeast with my next batch.  Any one with a fairly simple extract 
recipe for Oatmeal Stout???  Thanks again.

Brewin in VA....oops...soon to be SC!!!!!!!

RICK

private emails okay


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Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:17:00 -0400
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com
Subject: Beer Humor

Here's a little beer humor that showed up on my computer.

Two men were adrift in a lifeboat, following a dramatic escape from a
burning freight vessel.  

While rummaging through the boat's provisions, one of the men stumbled
across an old lamp. Secretly hoping that a Genie would appear, he rubbed
the lamp vigorously.  

To the amazement of the castaways, one did come forth.  

This particular Genie, however, stated that she could only deliver one
wish, not the standard three.  

Without giving much thought to the matter the man blurted out, "Make the
entire ocean into beer!"

Immediately the Genie clapped her hands with a deafening crash, and the
entire sea turned into the finest brew ever sampled by mortals.
Simultaneously, the Genie vanished to her freedom. 

Only the gentle lapping of beer on the hull broke the stillness as the
two
men considered their circumstances. The other man looked disgustedly at
the one whose wish had been granted.  After a long, tension-filled
moment,
he spoke: "Nice going!   Now we're going to have to pee in the boat."

- -----
Paul
"Give me ambiguity, or give me something else."


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