---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  RE:custom bottle caps (DakBrew)
  Rust on stainless steel (LyndonZimmermann)
  HSA and concentrated boils ("John Herman")
  Re: Request for CAP  thoughts (phil sides jr)
  re: Gott cooler problems... (John_E_Schnupp)
  Zymurgy Back Issues ("mike megown")
  How Long (Richard Foote)
  re: Gott cooler problems... (J Daoust)
  Excel formulator and beechwood (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Re: how much patience do you have? (Jeff Renner)
  re: Request for CAP thoughts (Jeff Renner)
  RE: Gott Cooler Problems (Jonathan Peakall)
  RE Gott Cooler Problems (Jonathan Peakall)
  re: CAP thoughts (Bill.X.Wible)
  Ayinger Yeast Interest ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  CAP (Nathan Kanous)
  CAP and Capital 1900 (Nathan Kanous)
  Patience???? (Rod Prather)
  Re: Gott Cooler Problems ("John Palmer")
  RIMS O2 insulation (Dana Edgell)
  Re: how much patience do you have? (Spencer W Thomas)
  Alcohol - Impairment /Death Links ("Bob Sutton")
  how much patience do you have? ("Eric R. Lande")
  multi cultural middle ages beers (Badger Roullett)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!


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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 00:30:31 EDT
From: DakBrew at aol.com
Subject: RE:custom bottle caps

>> I believe that 
these are silk screened in the same manner that a golf ball, or a marble 
would be done.  Has anyone info on having some custom caps printed.  Please 
forward any address or company you might know of.
RIMS'ing away in KC.. Tbirdusa.(steve lane)
>>
I am in the silk screen business and wile You could Silk screen a Bottle Cap 
the most efficient method would be Pad Printing. This is how Golf balls and 
pens and bottle openers and most any irregular shaped object is printed. If 
you can find a small company with Pad printing equipment you can probably get 
caps printed in relatively small quantities you may even have to supply the 
bottle caps as most printers wont have a source for blank bottle caps. The 
largest expense should be the need to build fixtures for the equipment to 
hold bottle caps. Detail could be quite fine and even multi colors should not 
be a problem with the right equipment.

Jump in the phone book and look under printing for someone with a Pad Printer.

Dan Klinglesmith


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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:10:47 +0930
From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
Subject: Rust on stainless steel

G'day guys,

A few really good ways to get stainless steel to rust are:

1.      Put scratches in it.  This creates crevices where healthy oxygen
levels (which passivate) are depleted and other harmful oxidising agents
(such as chlorides) get a free run.  Polish out scratches!  Avoid any
cavities (eg arc weld blobs).  Unfortunately, when cavities start they can
drill right through.

2.      Get mild steel into the surface.  The best ways to trash stainless
this way are to allow grindings from your angle grinder to spray all over
it, or brush it with a mild steel wire brush. A galvanic cell starts, and
the grain of mild steel starts drilling into the stainless.  When it is
spent the crevice continues (see #1 above).  Nitric acid selectively eats
the mild steel so is a good treatment if used early enough (though
potentially dangerous, and I don't recall the correct concentration to use).
Don't contaminate stainless with mild steel!

3.      Overheat it by cutting, welding or boiling dry.  Overheating causes
carbon migration to the crystal boundaries, upsetting the chemical balance.
These crystals are no longer austenitic.  Welding needs to be with special
pulse machines and back gassing for highly reliable results.  Sorry, there
is no treatment for cooked stainless.

4.      Pick the wrong stainless. Yes, most stainless do rust. Food grade
316 is an austenitic stainless and highly corrosion resistant.  Hard
stainless (such as in knives) is typically martensitic, and not very
corrosion resistant.  A beer keg is a safe bet.

Good luck,

Lyndon Zimmermann
Adelaide, Australia

Lyndon Zimmermann and Associates (Business number 0442221W)
Sustainable Energy Consultants
24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494
email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz

Coming to the ISES 2001 Solar World Congress?  
Find out more at http://www.unisa.edu.au/ises2001congress



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:58:48 -0400
From: "John Herman" <johnvic at earthlink.net>
Subject: HSA and concentrated boils

Recently I decided to go back to extract brewing.  Basically summer is soon
and I don't want to spend 8 to 10 hours in a hot kitchen instead of outside!
This was my problem.  Since I chose to do a concentrated boil ( started at 2
1/2 gallons ), the hop pellets and the trub were impossible to strain out.
I decided afterwards that the next time I should add more water to the post
boil kettle to make whirlpooling and straining easier.  Can I add the cooled
water while the wort is still hot, or should I wait until after cooling ( I
use an immersion chiller )?
Another question is this.  I've noticed that after transferring the wort to
a carboy, about an hour later there is some trub ( after straining a full
boil batch ).  Is it worth siphoning off this? I straing pretty good ( other
than last weeks extract brew ), but should I get fanatical about it.

Thanks in advance,

John Herman
johnvic at earthlink.net



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 02:16:48 -0400
From: phil sides jr <psides at technologist.com>
Subject: Re: Request for CAP  thoughts

Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> writes:

>One more thing - if anyone know of any commercial examples, please let
me
>know.  For the purpose of definition, this means a pilsner style lager
with
>corn or rice adjunct, gravity at least 11P (1.044), hots at least,
what,
>20-25 IBU.  I know I've previously written minimum of 20 IBU, but this
is
>pretty low.

I can't say for sure that this is a CAP, but it seems to fit the bill.
New Hampshire Custom Brewers (www.nhbrews.com) produces a beer called
Woody Beer.  It is self-described as "...a blend of rich American hops &
malt brewed in the tradition of the late 30's and 40's..."

I tried it this past winter but I did not make any tasting notes.  I
recall it being malty and clean with a noticable American variety hop
flavor.  I do not recall it being quite as bitter as 25 IBU's but like I
said, the maltiness came through; perhaps the bitterness was there...  I
seem to remember the alcohol was about 4.5% ABV, I think it said it on
the six-pack carrier.

If you want me to send you a six-pack I would be glad to, but the
brewery actually sells and ships beer directly from their website.  I do
not know if they have a minimum order requirement.

Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH





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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 00:14:08 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: Gott cooler problems...

Greg,

>I've been working on a rims system on and off for a bout 6 months now. I

I've been working on mine longer and it's still not up and running.  I have
all the stuff but have never gotten around to putting it all together.

>A stainless steel false
>bottom from Stainless in Seattle has come in and I can't get the thing into
>the cooler with anything less than a violent pounding. It seems the sides of
>the cooler are not straight, with bulges in multiple locations. Once in the
>bottom of the cooler (after scraping h*** out of the sides) I find that the
>cooler isn't even round, more like slightly oval. I assume, but haven't
>proven, that the false bottom is round.

It's probably safe to say that the false bottom is round.  I also have a
Gott and it is also "wavy" in the sides.  This is probably due to the
foam that's injected into the cooler for insulation.  I'd be really
surprised if there are any coolers out there that are geometrically
(round or rectangular) perfect.

I made my own false bottom from a piece of perforated stainless (the same
type of stuff used by Stainless in Seattle).  I made it slightly smaller
than the diameter of the cooler.  I then took a piece of tubing and split
it lengthwise and wrapped it around the false bottom.  I used 1/4" teflon
tubing.  It is a snug fit but the teflon allows to slide to the bottom
without a lot of high pressure antics.

>I'm still playing with the idea of where to place the runoff tube. This might
>sound like a silly question but I routinely manufacture my own parts.

There is a website that has a next bulkhead fitting for the Gott cooler.
I can't seem to locate the one I'm looking for but here is one idea from
Ken Schwartz, http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/files/mashtun.gif
For my bulkhead fitting I found that a 3/8" NPT male fitting is a very
snug fit in the original grommet.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Homebrewery
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200




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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:21:40 EDT
From: "mike megown" <megownm at hotmail.com>
Subject: Zymurgy Back Issues


  "There are a couple of other minor issues, like passing on photocopied 
versions of Zymurgy when you order back issues, and without warning. "......

   Is this true!!!I was planning to order some back issues soon.  What do 
you get for the money you send in?  A photocopy of the issue you 
request!!!The AHA sales rep never told me anything about photocoopy issues.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:27:08 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: How Long

Patrick writes:

>so, i'm curious how long people actually wait to serve their beer.
>here's my usual schedule:

 > primary for 1 week (unless it's not done)
>secondary for 2 weeks
>keg, chill, and force carbonate.
>drink in a day or two.

At the recommended pitching rate of a 1:10 step up in volume and using a
rather flocculant ale yeast, I'm imbibing in two weeks.  I use about 1/2
teasp. Irish moss at 15 min. before end of boil in 12.5 gals.  This is
below the amounts I read others using, but it seems to work for me.  

I primary for 3-4 days at ambient basement temperatures (in the high 60's
currently) and transfer to my secondary, which I place in my lagering
fridge to begin decreasing the temperature slowly.  At around the two week
mark, I 've got the temp. down in the 40's and transfer to cornies.  I
transfer to my serving fridge, drop the temp a bit more and force carbonate
overnight at 30 psi.  The next day--glorious beer!  Now, it may not be of
great clarity at this point, but in a couple more days, it's quite
tolerable.  I don't think you'll get crystal clarity unless you filter or
wait longer for everything to drop out.  

A friend of mine switches the quick connects so the CO2 goes in the liquid
tube, creating greater surface area for carbonation.  Using this method, he
carbonates within a few hours.  Beware though that you are aware of this
scheme.  Once I was at his brewery imbibing and a keg kicked.  I mentioned
this and he said, "Oh, there's another one in there, hook it up!"  At this
point, he should have realized that I was unintiated in the ways of his
carbonation method.  I always pride myself on connecting gas to gas and
liquid to liquid.  I should have known something was amiss when I heard
bubbling upon attaching the liquid connect.  But sometimes, in a full keg,
that little gas dip tube can get below beer level.  "I'll just connect the
gas here and we'll have beer, glorious beer", I must have thought.  Er...
um... Houston, we have a problem!  Yep, beer up the 'ol gas line into the
regulator.


Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewery and Home Remodeling
Murrayville, GA 



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 06:25:20 -0700
From: J Daoust <thedaousts at ixpres.com>
Subject: re: Gott cooler problems...

Friends, Rimsers and countrymen

    I've been working on a rims system on and off for a bout 6 months
now. I 
mail ordered a 10 gallon gott cooler to do mashing in, which after
receiving 
I promptly put away in the closet.  Months later I've returned to
finishing 
the project and am horrified at what I'm seeing. A stainless steel false 
bottom from Stainless in Seattle has come in and I can't get the thing
into 
the cooler with anything less than a violent pounding. It seems the
sides of 
the cooler are not straight, with bulges in multiple locations. Once in
the 
bottom of the cooler (after scraping h*** out of the sides) I find that
the 
cooler isn't even round, more like slightly oval. I assume, but haven't 
proven, that the false bottom is round.
My questions for the group are as follows:

1)  Is this sort of construction typical in all gott coolers? 
2)  Is there anything I can do about it to get the bulges smoothed out?
3)  What is a typical gap that one can live with between the edge of the 
false bottom and the cooler surface.
4)  This question should be worth a cheap giggle. Where in the North San 
Diego County (or even nearby) can I find these coolers? I figure if I
take 
the false bottom with me for sizing I should be able to locate at least
one 
that will fit. I've blown the gas budget for this month looking.


Greg, I completed a herms with a gott cooler about 3 months ago, and
have some similar experiences, so to answer your questions.
1. I think so
2. Don't think so
3. I wouldn't worry about anything under an 1/8 of an inch, I use a
phils and the roundness really doesn't    matter, just the seal on the
bottom.  Further, with the grain on top it should push the false bottom
down.
4. As a resident of SD county also, I feel your pain. Try lumber
stores,ie, Dixieline; if you are in N. Cnty     give Orco a call. Also,
if that brings you no luck, try Roofing Wholesale, or a similar
business.
5. check out my humble, slightly unfinished page to see my system.      
http://members.spree.com/health/dowquest/brewpage.html
6. Don't give up, making the herms for me was a pain also, but fun. More
importantly, Totally worth it!
   I was able to cut out ALL my temp. worries and with the addition of
the pump, shave off an hour of my brew    time!
Good luck , if you need more info, contact me and I'll do my best to
help.  Jerry Daoust


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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:48:27 +0200
From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
Subject: Excel formulator and beechwood

Hi Brewers,

Has anyone ever tried the use of beechwood chips. During the "course" of
Anheuser in Sea World, Orlando (I passed the test:-) last month, they told
me it was for clearing. Why beechwood? 

Jonathan Raybould" <jonray at screaming.net.co.uk.screaming.net 
wrote:
Anyone prepared to have a look at the spreadsheet and help me improve it
would be most welcome. Please e-mail me for a copy.
I'm interested, so I did send the mail but: Host unknown (Name server:
screaming.net.co.uk: host not found).
So if Jonathan is reading this .....,
Greetings from Holland,
http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:42:29 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: how much patience do you have?

"patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> writes

>one phenomena that really annoys me is the lack of brightness
>and clarity in my beers. however, it frequently seems to be the case
>that by the time i'm finishing off a batch, the beer coming out of the
>keg is quite clear.
<snip>

>keg, chill, and force carbonate.
>drink in a day or two.

I think the problem here is chill haze.  I don't think Irish moss will have
that much effect.  Time is the best cure if you're going to chill your
beer.  Perhaps silica gel, which is a mineral product and is insoluble (as
is polyclar) will help you.  It will settle out, according to Williams
Brewing, which sells it, although the commercial procedure is to filter it.
It removes the proteinaceous culprits.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:54:40 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: re: Request for CAP thoughts

At 11:16 AM -0400 5/15/00, Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com wrote:
>I remember seeing two previous articles of interest on this, and I think both
>were in BT.   One was called "Reviving the Classic American Pilsener - A
>Shamefully Neglected Style."  I think the other was "The Bushwick Pilseners
>- A look at hoppier Days".   At least one of these is by George Fix.  You can
>still find both by searching realbeer.com's library.

Bill

I'm glad you liked the first article, especially since I wrote it! ;-)  The
other was by Ben Jankowski.  George earlier wrote "Explorations in
Pre-Prohibition American Lagers"
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.3/fix.html.

My Zymurgy article will be a definite update over my first one.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 06:50:31 -0700
From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org>
Subject: RE: Gott Cooler Problems

Re Gott cooler deformation, Greg asks:

>>1)  Is this sort of construction typical in all gott coolers?
2)  Is there anything I can do about it to get the bulges smoothed out?
3)  What is a typical gap that one can live with between the edge of the

false bottom and the cooler surface.
4)  This question should be worth a cheap giggle. Where in the North San

Diego County (or even nearby) can I find these coolers? I figure if I
take
the false bottom with me for sizing I should be able to locate at least
one
that will fit. I've blown the gas budget for this month looking.

1) Yup. I have two and they both bulged after repeated use.
2) Nope. Not unless Samantha from Bewitched wiggles her nose.
3) Before I switched to a manifold, I had a Phil's Phalse bottom that
had about 3/4 of an inch gap all the way around it when in the cooler. I
weighted it down with the standard ball bearing/vinyl tube assembly.
Worked fine.
4) No idea. I live 1/2 an hour from even the nearest lame hardware
store.

I finally converted a keg to a mash tun and dumped the cooler. Not only
does it retain it's shape, but the geometry of it allows for a more
shallow mash, and has improved my circulation. Insulating it was a
project, however.



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 06:55:55 -0700
From: Jonathan Peakall <jpeakall at mcn.org>
Subject: RE Gott Cooler Problems

Greg also writes:

>I'm still playing with the idea of where to place the runoff tube. This
might
>sound like a silly question but I routinely manufacture my own parts.

On my first cooler, I went out where the manufacturer had intended,
through the side. However, as the side is curved, sealing can be
somewhat problematic. My second one I went through the bottom, and it
was much easier to seal. With my keg tun, I went through the bottom as
well.

Jonathan Peakall



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:15:09 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: re: CAP thoughts



Well, good job, Jeff!  Yeah, I did like the article enough that I remembered
the title and the basic info from it.  All 3 of those articles were great, I
read
them over and over, at least a year ago.

Was yours the one that included a recipe for "Your Father's Moustache"?

When I write these responses, I'm at work, and without benefit of references.
I do not have internet access here, (just email) and I have no brewing books
here.  Today, I have a stack of index cards with styles and their official
'numbers' because I'm using those as flash cards to study for the BJCP exam,
which I'm taking this Sunday.  Sometimes I'll get a detail ot two wrong.  Thanks
for pointing that out and giving credit to the correct authors.

If your next article is as good as the last one, I'm looking forward to it.  Any
idea
which issue of Zymurgy it will be in?

Bill




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Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:20:28 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Ayinger Yeast Interest

A lot of people have expressed a lot of interest in my Ayinger yeast prize.
Well it is a prize to me and it smells a whole lot better than the skunk oil
which still sits forlornly on a post@ the far extreme of Burradoo Estate.
Jill still won't let me bring that bottle to bed at night. That girl just
has no sense of humour.

No one seems interested in a sample of my skunk oil but plenty would like to
try the Ayinger yeast. I will organise distribution of the culture to the
Aussies (yes Dave Lamotte, one sample will be heading your way) and for
those of you in the USA, I'm sure I can arrange something for you. I haven't
had the time to respond individually. It's late at night and I'm all out of
breath. Jill has been after me with that wretched "cat of nine tails" again.
Can a bloke do nothing right?

Cheers
Phil



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:31:39 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: CAP

Hi Everyone,
Was it last year or the year before?  As a part of the Great Taste of the 
Midwest, the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild held a friendly 
competition among the Wisconsin Brewers to brew a Classic American 
Pilsner.  I don't recall all the details, but I think that they worked with 
a fairly standardized grain bill...anyhow.  These beers were produced by a 
number of the Wisconsin breweries and were sold as commercial products.  If 
I'm not mistaken, The Capital Brewery in Middleton now produces a beer 
"1900" which is their interpretation of a pre-prohibition pilsner.  It's 
available commercially and it's a good beer.  Hope this helps.

Also, we've seen a few CAP's come through the Big and Huge Homebrew 
competition and do fairly well in recent years.  If anybody wants more 
info, we can probably find someone with better information.
nathan in madison, wi


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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:45:28 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: CAP and Capital 1900

For those interested, the website is not very revealing, other than "comes 
from and od Wisconsin recipe, circa 1900."  I'm sure you could try to 
contact Kirby if you want more details for personal interest, or for a 
write-up.

http://www.capital-brewery.com/1900.htm

nathan


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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:43:25 -0400
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Patience????

Patrick Finerty jr Wrote about his fermentation schedule.

>primary for 1 week (unless it's not done)
>secondary for 2 weeks
>keg, chill, and force carbonate.
>drink in a day or two.

>is this too short a schedule? 

I believe that since you are making 10 gallon batches you could 
spread the drinking out over several weeks.  Drinking all of that 
in a day or two could have detrimental effects on your life and 
your job.  In addition the headaches are killers.  <GRIN>
- -- 
Rod Prather
Indianapolis, Indiana
Somewhere South of the Rennerian Center of the Universe


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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:34:26 -0700
From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
Subject: Re: Gott Cooler Problems

Greg's cooler isn't round, wonders where to find another near San
Diego, and wonders about pickup tube placement re: the false bottom.

Ouch. Well, I bought mine at Smart and Final, and having used both 5
and 10 gallon sizes, there is a definite advantage to grainbed depth
and extraction if you use the 5 gal size for 5 gallon batches, and 10
for 10. But, I havent done RIMs with them so bear that in mind. Ace
Hardware also carries them. I live near Los Angeles.

I would say that there is not any ideal depth for the dimension
beneath the false bottom. Probably a half inch is plenty. And between
the edge of the false bottom and the walls, the answer is zero. You
really don't want a gap, otherwise it presents an easy flow path down
the walls to the drain and you wont' lauter properly plus you will
suck a lot of grain under the fb.

The pickup tube needs to be placed in the center of the fb, otherwise
you will tend to draw from one side of the mash more than the other.

I have an article on fluid flow on my webpage that describes some of
this issue.
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/fluidflow.html/

John Palmer
Monrovia CA




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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:09:25 -0700
From: Dana Edgell <EdgeAle at cs.com>
Subject: RIMS O2 insulation


Steve Alexander writes...

> ...
>>Can you think of a RIMS
>>(or "semi-RIMS") design that avoids this source of HSA?
>
>You could float a 'cap' on top of the tun reducing the surface area to
>volume ratio substantially.  I don't think this problem is specifically RIMS
>related, but rather circulation of wort with high surface to volume ratio
>problem is the problem.  Reducing the mash surface air ratio *may* provide a
>solution.

Has anyone tried covering the surface of the mash liquid with small
floating balls? I have seen such balls for use to reduce heat loss from
liquid surfaces but wouldn't they also work for reducing O2 contact? Does
anyone have a suggested source of small, high-temp, food-grade floating
balls?

Dana

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell              mailto:EdgeAle at cs.com
Edge Ale Brewery         http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle
San Diego




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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:46:21 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: how much patience do you have? 

I suggest switching yeast.  Not a joke.  If you're pitching an
adequate quantity, the yeast should drop bright during your 2 week
secondary.  Unless it's a yeast that doesn't do so.  Look for a yeast
with good flocculation.  Wyeast 1056 is NOT one.  One that I know of
is NCYC 1187, which is available from Yeast Culture Kit Co
(yckco at aol.com), and may be available from Yeastlab as one of their
"British" ale yeasts (I'm not sure).

Or, maybe your haze problem is not from yeast.  Chill haze, for
example, will eventually drop out, but will take several weeks or
longer to do so.  This is what you're trying to avoid with the Irish
Moss additions, though.

I often use gelatin to help drop the yeast.  You can't do that.  Does
anyone know whether agar-agar will work similarly to gelatin to drop
yeast?  For example, I brewed on Sunday, April 30.  I pitched about 2
ounces of thick yeast slurry from a local brewpub.  The beer finally
(almost) stopped fermenting on Saturday, May 6.  I racked to a keg
with some gelatin.  On Sunday, May 7, I racked to another keg,
(discarding the first few 100 ml, which were cloudy with yeast).  The
beer was pretty clear for a party Sunday evening, and very clear by
Friday, May 12 when I took some to the homebrew club meeting.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI        (spencer at umich.edu)



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:55:39 EDT
From: "Bob Sutton" <anerobe at hotmail.com>
Subject: Alcohol - Impairment /Death Links

A few links from Scientific American...

What are the effects of alcohol on the brain?
http://www.sciam.com/askexpert/medicine/medicine45/medicine45.html

Deaths Due to Alcohol
http://www.health.org/pressrel/alcart.htm

If you have lotsa time, Medscape and Medline have a number of articles on 
alcohol poisoning, etc.. One that struck my curiosity was...

Effects of Ethanol on Working Memory and Attention in Pigeons
http://www.medscape.com/server-java/MedLineApp?/member-search/getdoc.cgi?
ord=4&searchid=1&have_local_holdings_file=0&local_journals_only=0

<cut/paste entire path - HBD diallowed a 80+ character line>

And of course there's death by drowning... :-)

12May00 - UPN - Burradoo Hilton:
Brenda Dundee is home as usual, making dinner, when Tim
Finnegan arrives at her door.

"Brenda, may I come in?" he asks.  "I've
somethin' to tell ya."

"Of course you can come in, you're always welcome, Tim. But
where's my husband?"

"That's what I'm here to be tellin' ya, Brenda. There was an
accident down at the Fosters brewery..."

"Oh, God no!" cries Brenda.  "Please don't tell me..."

"I must, Brenda.  Your husband Mick is dead and gone.  I'm
sorry."

Brenda reached a hand out to her side, found the arm of the
rocking chair by the fireplace, pulled the chair to her and collapsed
into it. She wept for many minutes.  Finally she looked up at Tim. "How
did it happen, Tim?"

"It was terrible, Brenda.  He fell into a vat of Fosters Lager and drowned."

"Oh my dear!  But you must tell me true, Tim.  Did he at
least go quickly?"

"Well, no Brenda ... no."

"No?"

"Fact is, he got out three times to pee."
(No he didn't use the hand basin)

Bob
[sig truncated]

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:19:49 -0400
From: "Eric R. Lande" <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: how much patience do you have?

In HBD #3326  Patrick Finerty asked about the clarity of his beer.  You
could try leaving in the secondary for another week.  When you rack to
the keg, do you move the fermenter?  That could stir it up a bit.  The
first thing that came to mind, though, was that the haze dropped out in
the keg and got sucked out the dip tube for the first several beers. 
After a while all of the haze has fallen out and been sucked out so it
starts running clear.  If you don't want to wait for the beer to clear in
the secondary, you could try shortening the dip tube in your keg so it
doesn't pick up the settled matter.

As for tasting different, that's the great thing about homebrewing, the
beer continues to change (unless you filter it - but then you won't have
a haze problem).  The stout I made at Big Brew 1999 was pretty good into
the fall.  I left it alone for a while while I was drinking other things,
and finished it in March.  It was fabulous.  Made me wish I had saved the
whole thing.

Good luck.


Eric Lande
Doylestown, PA
Brewery still not finished


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Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:20:25 -0700
From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
Subject: multi cultural middle ages beers


Long time no post..

I know this is slightly off topic of the AHA discussion that's going on, But
I know the depth of knowledge here is greater than any other 3 sources
combined.

I do a lot of research into middle ages, and renaissance brewing, with
occasional recreations when I have time to brew.  

I have a LOT of sources for English recipes, and instructions, and grain
bills dating from 1000 - 1669, but I have very little from other countries.
I am looking to expand my resources, and repertoire.  I am looking for
sources of information that might point me to references to Flemish,
Belgium,  French, German, etc. recipes or grain bills, or ratios, etc. for
these regional areas.

Replying privately would probably work if you have any suggestions.

I already have the following books: Corran, Bickerdyke, Anglo Saxon Food and
Beverages II, Harrison, Digby, Markham as well as a slew of modern
references.

Thanks in advance to any and all who help.

badger


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